WEBVTT

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[music]

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And this is eighty-nine, I\'m Miss Nankie.

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My name is Miss Nankie Xhole. (inaudible)

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and I love you. Welcome to Alex FM.

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I\'m the town that DJ Nankie loves, Alexandra,
the suburb of Johannesburg in South Africa.

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You\'re enjoying yourself, of course.
So just stay tuned.

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This month Nankie\'s listeners will be playing host to what\'s
billed as the biggest international conference this century,

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the World Summit on
Sustainable Development,

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South Africa welcoming over 60,000 people to
debate nothing less than the future of the planet.

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We want to host the summit because we went to work
towards their education of poverty in the world.

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We went to make sure
that our common destiny

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takes into account, the wellbeing
of everyone of the whole humanity.

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And that\'s what is important for
all of us, and for South Africa.

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South Africa\'s guests won\'t have to look far for the
kind of poverty the summits meant to eradicate.

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Just take a tour around the streets of Alex
and talk to the people who live there.

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We\'re living in a… in a bad situation, environment
itself is bad. 50 people living in one yard.

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It\'s not a bad experience at all.
And sharing the toilet

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then using the same drain whatever doing, washing dishes
and all things. It\'s a bad experience for everybody like

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health wise and all those things.

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We don\'t have even a tree for shade. We don\'t have
a current (inaudible) environment in Alexandra,

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this all stuff. Even a (inaudible)
is a privilege to live in a house

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that is a (inaudible). It was since I was
born, I never had a (inaudible) in my hut.

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Growing up in Alex\'s a bad environment
with the danger of social breakdown.

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Definitely growing up in
Johannesburg is not an easy thing.

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First of all, you know, you… you need a family
and a community support not to get drawn into,

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for example, anti-social behavior. So you find
that the current rate, for example, Johannesburg,

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is… is very high, not to be positive because of
Johannesburg or the use of Johannesburg by the bad people,

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but because of this environment
into their growing up,

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it has taken education. Many people advocate education, but
they forget that shelter is a business for good education.

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If (inaudible) has been sleeping
in a room with eight other people,

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so you\'ve been there night was uncomfortable.
How do you expect a child to pay

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attention in school? Because of health depends
on where you live. You know, so for example,

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there\'s no question of slum life. Therefore,
it becomes almost every (inaudible).

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What could the Summit do for people like you see
in Alexandra? You know, I think this summit

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uh… is really going to boost a lot of…

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and unleash a lot of energies for those
people who are already looking at

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what they can do to really take
development into their heads.

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And I think that\'s for me
is a very positive thing

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because there\'s a lot of energy in the world
to do something about poverty eradication.

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And if our leader, political leadership
can give a very clear direction,

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and very clear guide. The whole
world will embrace that program.

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While the summits being hosted by the
South Africans, its political program

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has been drawn up by the United Nations who
dubbed it the Sustainable Development Summit.

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But just what is sustainable development?

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Sustainable development is integrated development. It is
where you build a societal approach which is owned locally

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where there is a reason for it to happen,

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where trees are perceived as
being a value to the community,

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uh… not something that you cut
down uh… just to get wood

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where cleanliness, where uh…
dealing with degradation

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of an environment is seen by the people as affecting
their health, as affecting their possibilities.

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I believe sustainable development means

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uh… a development in which uh… there is much greater
equity than there is in today\'s for more development,

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much greater uh… emphasis on maintaining
the environment, and the resource base,

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and much greater emphasis on an economic development
that basically meets the needs of the poorest.

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Simply, if you want to look
at it in business terms,

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it\'s like running the earth as earth
incorporated with the depreciation,

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amortization and maintenance account
which simply means ensuring

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that you… you the… through
the production process,

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we do not destroy the underlying
assets which continued

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uh… development depends on. Sustainable development was
meant to have been the outcome of the Earth Summit

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in Rio de Janeiro, 10 years ago, held
at the climax of international concern

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about the global environment. Leaders around
the world signed up to a series of agreements

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to put the global economy on
a more sustainable footing.

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But those who are involved now have mixed feelings
about whether those promises were delivered.

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The disappointments, of course, unluckily

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more than positive signals.
They have one side, of course,

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is the huge increase in the
gap between rich and poor,

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it\'s a social component.
We have not decreased

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the problems of water,
we have not decreased

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the extension weight of biodiversity,
we have little decrease of course,

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(inaudible) into wood. And
especially, they even couldn\'t go

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in the positive direction concerning,
it\'s an economical population.

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You know, we didn\'t do it all.
We didn\'t save the world real.

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But we did provide the basis
on which if governments

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and others live up to what they agreed
to do in Rio, we will be on a pathway

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to a more sustainable future. The
achievements were very clearly

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that more than ever
before the world leaders,

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more ever, in fact, more world leaders than up to that
point has ever assembled around any particular issue,

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focused on the longer term
future of life on our planet.

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Well, uh… I must admit

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that either I was fooled or… or it was
uh… really coming from the heart,

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the statements of a large
number of the heads of state

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in the last couple of
days were very impressive

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indicating that we are on the verge of a different
type of word that there will be cooperation,

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there would be support, there would be
understanding, better understanding.

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And I were so thrilled with the fact
that what is stronger managed to get

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all these people uh… together. And they were
committing themselves as openly in this

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uh… direction, and I… it
never crossed my mind

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that this is a… a show that
we are… we are on Broadway.

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The promises of politicians to kids
like those in Alex just show biz.

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Maybe, it doesn\'t matter, most people in the
world are better off than 10 years ago.

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But old problems haven\'t gone away, and disturbing
new trends have emerged for a new century.

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Poverty continues to be to exist

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in tremendous ways. Globalization has taken
place. And it\'s good, there\'s economic

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uh… improvements in some parts of the
world. But it is created greater disparity

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in some parts of the world. The pandemic of
HIV AIDS has really torn apart some societies

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and made it more difficult
for things to get done.

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Wars are on the increase in terms of the impact inside
society. The victims today are largely civilian,

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not military any more. So if you
combine poverty, more HIV AIDS,

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and a lack of government, and private
sector leadership, it comes together to say

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too little has been accomplished.

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[music]

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One reason to (inaudible) has been delivered is that
foreign aid from the rich countries to the poor

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has actually declined since Rio. Some say,
it\'s because with the end of the Cold War,

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the rich don\'t need to bribe the poor not
to get communist anymore. Others say,

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it\'s really a lot simpler than that.

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Well, no one\'s doubt is very disappointing,

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and no one should look for a deep
complex, sophisticated reason.

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There is a strong tendency in both private

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and public affairs for
people who haven\'t come

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and have wealth to want more,

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and to be negligent as far
as the people who have less.

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As I say that works as between individuals

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and unfortunate works in
between nation states.

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Meantime, the people with wealth have been getting rich
up much faster than the poor have been escaping poverty,

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and equality on the increase both
between, and within nations.

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It\'s happening in (inaudible) poor
Alex losing out to rich Sandton,

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where this year\'s Summit will be
held close to D.J. Nankie station.

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The World Summit wished of all, it\'s going
to be held at Sandton Convention Centre,

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and from here in Alex to go to
Sandton uh… it\'s 15 minutes drive,

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you know. It\'s not far from here.

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[music]

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Sandton is a shopping centre. It\'s… it\'s a
Mall whereby, you know, people from Alex

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usually go to Sandton to… to have a
good time there. We buy at Sandton.

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Everything Sandton. Sandton
is a very nice place.

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[music]

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Alex and Sandton, they\'re two
different worlds. It\'s like there

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you like you\'re a queen. When you\'re
there, you\'re wearing nice clothes.

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And everything, you\'re a Queen, you\'re
walking on nice grounds, you know?

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And you\'re respected, regardless of
whether you come in a shed place.

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Nobody knows you come from Alex, you know, you\'re respected.
But the minute somebody knows you come from Alex,

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you… you get judged. Ten minutes you\'re in
Sandton, five minutes you\'re in Alexandra.

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So even the materials, the space
of the houses, the streets,

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the cars… So it\'s a desire for
everybody to live in Sandton.

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[music]

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Everybody, when you wake up,
you want to live in Sandton.

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It\'s two worlds,

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though sometimes people do have their
doubts which they\'d really rather live in.

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I would live there, but most of the time I\'d be
here. Because here I… we know each other here,

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you know? There\'s like that thing of knowing each other, and
you feel at home when you\'re here even though it\'s dangerous

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but it\'s… it\'s an environment that you\'re
used to, you\'re used to coming here at home

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and stuff like that, you know? So, there you don\'t know a lot of
people. People are just closed up in their houses and everything.

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[sil.]

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Extremes of wealth and poverty,

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the argument goes, lead not
just to a fragmented society,

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but to huge pressures on the world\'s
resources. And societies that are so unequal

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may prove unsustainable politically too.
In the long run uh… today,

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it\'s obvious that the basic
life support systems, uh…

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that uh… everyone depends on the rich
and the poor are under great threat.

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And a large part of that threat is from
affluence, from large-scale use for

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uh… of these resources by the rich but
also in part from the damages done by…

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by poor people. A way
of life on this planet

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in which there are a few rich people and a large
number of poor people is not sustainable,

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I believe from an ecological point of view and
certainly not from a political point of view.

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I think it\'s a misuse of
the term \"sustainable\"

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to talk about that. We\'d like to think that
inequality and injustice are \"unsustainable\".

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Uh… unfortunately, you know, history says that\'s not
true. Umm… it may be a bad thing, but it\'s not,

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it\'s not something that you should confuse. It… it, you
know, inequality in the world is not unsustainable

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the way that… that fishing out the entire
world\'s stock of fish is unsustainable.

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Does it matter if we\'re more
unequal if we\'re also richer?

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Oh, I would always come
out for other pressure,

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for a more equal national

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and international society

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partly for umm… reasons that have
very little to do with economics.

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I think every civilised country
should have a few screams

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of anguish from the very rich.

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And that\'s just what many in the rich world fear the
Johannesburg Summit will be, an attempt to make

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the rich scream with anguish. If sustainable development
does means redistributing wealth and regulating business,

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it\'s not surprising that some particularly in
North America view the environmental movement

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that preaches sustainable
development as a threat.

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And this ideological tussle is
getting increasingly acrimonious.

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It\'s one of the things that really depresses me about the past decade
as we\'ve seen the rise of a… actually anti-environmental movement.

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I mean there are people, I think people who have, who have the
ear of the White House, who actually take some positive pleasure

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in disporting some environmental areas.
Why would they do that?

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Umm… because the environmental movement came to be a
symbol of people pestering them about their business.

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I think it\'s… it\'s really, you know, it\'s
not all about economic self-interest.

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Unfortunately, there are symbols on both sides. So
is that going to hinder progress at Johannesburg?

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Oh, enormously. The United States is… you know,
you can\'t do much without the U.S ultimately,

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and the United States is not really interested in this
game. It\'s not just that the U.S can seem disinterested.

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Some Washington lobbyists would actually
like to see the Jo\'burg Summit fail,

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especially, if Rio was a precedent.

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I was at the Rio Conference in I992. It was a circus.
Everyone was running around, caring about the environment,

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and saying how we had to be concerned about
Planet Earth, but with not the slightest idea

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of what policies actually would allow
Planet Earth to actually be saved.

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But these lobbyists from the American
Right aren\'t just green bashers.

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They have arguments which support as of
the Jo\'burg Summit will have to answer.

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They say that all we really need to guarantee
sustainable development is human ingenuity.

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If you look at any resource that has
been integrated into the system

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of human relevant institutions
uh… food, metals, energy,

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uh… forestry and so forth. One finds
that as man\'s demands increase,

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one, and… and those demands
sometimes trigger short-term supply

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imbalances then we find prices go
up, and we do one of three things:

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we find more of that supply somewhere in the
world, we find ways of using the existing

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supply more efficiently, we find ways of
economising on that now scarce resource,

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or we find technological substitutes.
And that process repeated over

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and over again in field after field is what\'s made it
possible for western civilisation to be sustainable.

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Yes, but uh… new technologies
have come along.

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Uh… and they do help the environment.
But by the same token,

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we… that\'s what we\'ve been doing, we\'ve been letting things
go. And… and overall although there\'s been progress,

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overall the environmental condition
of the world, and therefore,

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the prospects for our future have
deteriorated. That\'s what\'s happened.

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In Alex, houseproud DJ Nankie dusts
urban grime from the family home.

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According to the American Right,
if you own it, you look after it.

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That\'s why they say the best route to
sustainability is private ownership.

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One of the hopes one could see, if one
really wishes a sustainable earth,

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would be to have a creative
programme of privatisation

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to extend the concepts of ownership to those
resources that have been left out in the cold.

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We see no depletion in areas that are owned

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because by ownership rights encourage you not only
to use wisely today, but to ensure the value of

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that so you can sell it, and utilise that value for the future.
So you think more privatisation, more private ownership?

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Ecological privatisation is the critical
answer to addressing environmental problems.

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Uh… and, well, you look about us. Uh…
there\'s no endangered Persian cat problem.

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There\'s an endangered tiger problem.
What do you make of this argument

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that umm… property rights are the
answer to the sustainable development?

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Property rights are important in making
it possible for the banking system

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and for the investments that are
needed uh… to be protected.

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But I certainly don\'t
have any evidence that

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umm… personal and private property is the only
answer. I know of regimes in which common property

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and common ownership by the
community of forests, and waters,

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and streams, and uh… grasslands
uh… worked very well.

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In fact, they worked better than privately owned
ones. It\'s a sense of ownership, sense of ownership.

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That is important for protecting resources.

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The arguments of the American Right may
yet derail the Johannesburg Summit.

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But they\'re still a minority view even in the West.
After the attacks on America on 11th September,

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many in the rich countries felt a renewed sense
of community with the rest of the world,

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and were reminded the rest of the world\'s
problems cannot be safely ignored.

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At the recent Summit in Monterey, Mexico on
financing development, a prelude to Jo\'burg,

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sustainable development
was back on the agenda.

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I think most people now recognise that
problem is in developing countries,

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and issues which confront them are
not just limited to those countries,

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but globalisation basically means that we\'re all
living in each others world. And that being the case,

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I think there\'s a much greater readiness today
to consider assisting other parts of the world.

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And that came through in Monterey where there
was evidence on the part of the European Union,

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and on the United States that they were
prepared to increase development assistance.

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I think I must welcome my lovely guest…

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At the grass roots, too, there are signs the Johannesburg
Summit is once again catching the imagination.

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Tune into Nankie\'s station, and you\'re
more than likely to hear a discussion

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with the latest NGO or non-governmental
organisation. … new non-governmental organisation.

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NGOs not just in Alex but across the world

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are now preparing enthusiastically
for the Jo\'burg Summit.

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Well, we\'re expecting as many NGOs particularly
the NGOs that deal with development,

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NGOs that deal with environment issues,
greens. So we\'re really expecting

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to be a microcosm of the world.

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At the grass roots level, some very encouraging things have
been happening. I\'ll meet all over the world with young people,

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thousands of young people who are on
fire with it, who are just committed

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to… to… to the need to take a
hand in shaping their own future,

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to some degree disappointed
that we\'re not doing it!

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But NGOs like those which flourish in the streets around
Alex FM are increasingly seen by the American Right

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as throwbacks to 60s socialism, one more reason
why they see the Jo\'burg Summit as a threat.

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Well, given the current nature

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of the NGO movement, which is probably the
largest statist element in the world today,

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I think Johannesburg has
the potential of being a…

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a great disaster because it
embodies… and essentially

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all of the bad ideas in the world today have
sorted of melted away in most institutions

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but they are now totally embodied in the NGO Movement.
Well, I fear is that out of Johannesburg will come

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a whole series of… of…
of moves to try to argue

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that rather than integrate the environment
into the system that works in marketplace,

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we will create a permanent barrier from environmental
issues ever being integrated into the market

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that will ensure that the environmental
problems will persist which will mean that

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the… the solutions or the governmental
interference strategies that these people promote

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will have more and more validity each year. The problems will
exist because they will have prevented them from being solved.

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Still as the ideologues behind the
Earth Summit play out their moves,

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Nankie and her friends in Alexandra have their own
hopes for the Sustainable Development Summit.

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Their main aim in a way is to see they…

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that the improvement of the lives of
people in general around the… the world

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and around the countries, in the communities, they want to see people
living a better life whereby people will be proud of themselves.

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[sil.]

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I think it would help if we didn\'t had shacks, if
we had a very, that if we had trees, most trees

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and a cooling environment for everybody.
And you get to live in your own yard,

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get your own kind of privacy… that\'s
the kind of life, I would choose.

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Small hopes, just the kind
of realistic ambition,

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you\'d think the Johannesburg Summit could achieve. But
as the organisers of the Earth Summit in Rio found out,

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even if promises can be agreed, you still
can\'t count on them being delivered.

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I\'m deeply concerned that
there\'s too much talk

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and too little action.

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And there are plenty, plenty of meetings
and conferences at every level,

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ministerial, technicians,
scientists, Heads of State.

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I\'m feeling disappointed in
the fact that we never come

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up with a programme of
action which is do-able

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in a certain period of time
specific, five years, ten years,

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and I\'m saying do-able, costed,

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and identifying who is doing
what in the implementation,

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and who is going to pay what. Without that, it
will continue to be the same jazz ever year,

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and every conference we meet.
D.J. Nankie walks home

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through the kind of neighbourhood, the
Johannesburg Summit is meant to help.

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For its opponents, the Summit is a misguided
attempt to reheat ideas of state interference.

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For skeptics, another round of
banquets, and insincere promises.

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But for some, it could also be a
last chance for a very simple

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and old-fashioned ideal.

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And one must speak quite plainly,

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there\'s a moral objection, there\'s
a moral damage that comes

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from placing one\'s personal interest,

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and a country\'s personal stake ahead

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of one\'s sense of humanity
for those who are suffering

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from all of the things that
are brought on by poverty.

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We should not doubt that the
national escape from poverty

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and the individual escape from poverty
are marred by a certain negligence,

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a certain selfishness.

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I wish people were not
that way but they are.

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What\'s your message to the world
leaders gathering in Johannesburg

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for this summit on sustainable development?
My message would be

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a very old and very commonplace one

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that there\'s nothing so important

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as narrowing the gap between
the rich world, and the poor,

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particularly, by continued,

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and well considered help to the economic,

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and social development, and stability

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of the poorer countries.
There\'s no unseen formula

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that replaces

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a much stronger effort
than we are already doing.