WEBVTT

00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:59.999
My Lord, on behalf of
Guardian Newspapers, Limited,

00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:04.999
I endorse all my leaned friend has said. My
clients now appreciate that the allegations

00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:09.999
made in their article were incorrect, and through
me wish to express their sincere apologies

00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:14.999
to McDonald\'s for the damage done to the Company\'s
reputation. The publishers of Today newspaper

00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:19.999
accept that their defamatory allegations against the
plaintiff were unfounded, should never have been printed,

00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:24.999
and consequently they withdraw them.

00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:29.999
On behalf of the defendant, I accept everything
my learned friend has said. I would add

00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.999
that Channel 4 welcomes this opportunity
to apologize to McDonald\'s.

00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:39.999
We apologize to McDonald\'s for any embarrassment … We apologize for the
allegations against McDonald\'s… Their practices and policies are beyond reproach…

00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:45.000
The past statement is unfair and untrue…
We ask you to accept our apologies …

00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:13.000
[sil.]

00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:24.999
What they\'ve actually done is to…
to hold McDonald\'s accountable

00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:29.999
to society on behalf of society.
And I think

00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:34.999
they are heroes of our time.
Hold your bag up.

00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:39.999
[sil.]

00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:44.999
It really began with one person, with Helen

00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:49.999
just saying, \"I can\'t apologize.\"
Just one person saying,

00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:54.999
\"No, I won\'t bow down.\"

00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:59.999
When I was quite young, there was
a boy at the end of our street

00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:04.999
who used to basically bully everyone around.
And everyone used to go crying to their moms

00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:09.999
and their dads, you know. And I think my mom
eventually got sort of fed up with it and just said,

00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:14.999
\"Well, hit him back.\" So I did. And after
that, he didn\'t hassle me anymore.

00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:19.999
Well, it\'s the same with McDonald\'s, really.
If somebody\'s trying to make you do something

00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:24.999
you don\'t believe in, then you have to stand up
to them and say, \"No, I\'m not going to do it.

00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:29.999
You know, I\'m not going to give in
to your intimidation and bullying.\"

00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:34.999
[sil.]

00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:39.999
When Charlie was two, um…
I split up with his mom,

00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:44.999
and really for about the last
four years, I\'ve been looking

00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:49.999
after Charlie on my own, which
is obviously a job in itself,

00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:54.999
full-time job, and a big responsibility.
I have a responsibility

00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:59.999
to encourage him to question
things for him to be himself,

00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:04.999
and not just be obsessed with the next power ranger
toys. He is growing up in a very hostile environment

00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:09.999
and all the images forced on kids
from advertising and the media,

00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:14.999
it\'s all bombarding him, telling
him the way the world should be.

00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:19.999
Well, me and Dave have been friends since the \'80\'s. I was
working as a gardener, and Dave used to be a postman.

00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:24.999
We share a lot of the same beliefs
and we also both feel it\'s important

00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:29.999
to stand up for what you believe in.

00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:34.999
It\'s not a personal battle between
me, and Helen, and McDonald\'s.

00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:39.999
This is about the public\'s right to know
what the most powerful organizations

00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:44.999
in the world, which are multi-national
corporations, uh… are really doing.

00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:49.999
7th of January, 1988,

00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:54.999
I started going regularly to a local
campaign group, London Greenpeace,

00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:59.999
unrelated to well-known Greenpeace. We meet once a week
in North London to arrange protests on various social

00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.999
and environmental issues.

00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:09.999
There have been lots of groups campaigning against
McDonald\'s around the world on specific issues like,

00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:14.999
you know, rainforest groups in
the States, and in Australia.

00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:19.999
There were trade unionists fighting for better working
conditions. There were nutritionists criticizing McDonald\'s

00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:24.999
for the junk food. There were
animal welfare is campaigning about

00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:29.999
the way the animals were reared
and slaughtered. But I think that

00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:34.999
it was London Greenpeace that really
drew all the criticisms together.

00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:39.999
The \"What\'s Wrong with McDonald\'s?\"
leaflets focused on the unhealthy food,

00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:44.999
the working conditions, animal
cruelty, plus the environmental damage

00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:49.999
and advertising to children.

00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:54.999
The McDonald\'s campaign
has picked on a Company

00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:59.999
that is so much in the public eye, that
seems to symbolize a whole system,

00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:04.999
a whole way of life. To have a link to an
educational campaign against McDonald\'s,

00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:09.999
is putting the alternative point of view.
But of course I just had no idea

00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:14.999
what it would lead to, that later it
would just completely take over my life.

00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:19.999
8th of February, 1990. London
Greenpeace meeting tonight.

00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:25.000
There\'s been a few new people in recent
months who don\'t seem genuine. Who are they?

00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.999
Assignment Number L-113-89. As instructed,

00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:39.999
I left the office at 7:00 p.m.
on the above date,

00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:44.999
and traveled to the office of subject group.
Pressing the bell push labeled \"Greenpeace\"

00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:49.999
resulted in the door being opened
by a woman of Oriental extraction.

00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:54.999
I introduced myself with a fictitious name.

00:06:55.000 --> 00:07:00.000
She did not ask for any other details, and she
appeared to be not much interested in my background.

00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:09.999
This guy turned up at the meetings
who didn\'t quite seem to sort of,

00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:14.999
you know, fit in. He didn\'t
really say that much about

00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:19.999
what his politics were, but at the time we just sort of thought,
\"Well, you know, maybe he\'s a policeman, but we\'re not doing anything

00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:24.999
wrong or illegal or anything.
So why worry about it?\"

00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:29.999
I knew that Helen suspected that there were
some kind of infiltrators in the group.

00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:34.999
And I said, \"Don\'t be stupid, that\'s just something
which, you know, you read about in books.\"

00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:39.999
[music]

00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:44.999
My role was actually to notice everything
that was happening, where it was being held,

00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:49.999
describe the place where it was being
held in, the people who were there,

00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:54.999
what they were wearing, what their names were, and everything
that was said. And in particular, everything that was said

00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:59.999
in relation to McDonald\'s. One
of the spies, Allan Clare,

00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:04.999
stole letters, broke into the
office to take photographs,

00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:09.999
uh… followed people home.

00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:14.999
We were infiltrated for about 18 months by seven
different spies from two different agencies.

00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:19.999
McDonald\'s hadn\'t told them about the two firms, and
so they were spying on each other some of the time.

00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.999
And at some meetings,
there were as many spies

00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:29.999
as there were campaigners.

00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:34.999
I was asked to introduce another person into
the group. Her name was Michelle Hooker.

00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:39.999
And I believe she was an ex-policeman.

00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:44.999
I was quite surprised when she came on for the first
time, because I thought I had sort of dressed down,

00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:49.999
wore sandals and sort of
hippie-type clothes, you know.

00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.999
But she used to drive up in a black BMW.
She used to give me a lift.

00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:59.999
And she got very heavily involved with the group. You
know, she organized meetings, she organized pickets.

00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:04.999
She even had a six-month relationship with somebody in
the group, and stayed with his family over Christmas.

00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:09.999
I managed to find in a
drawer bank statements

00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:14.999
for London Greenpeace. They bank with
the Cooperative Bank in Islington.

00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:19.999
Went on to the Malt and Hops public house. While
here, the conversation turned to Dave Morris,

00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:24.999
and I learned he lives in Tottenham.
He has a son who is called Charlie.

00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:29.999
One of them wanted to get my address.

00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:34.999
And sent… He asked someone in the group what my
address was, because he wants to send me some

00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.999
baby clothes for my son Charlie. And he
actually sent these clothes to me uh…

00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:44.999
which… which Charlie wore.

00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:49.999
It wasn\'t until several years later

00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:54.999
that we found out the real reason
that they wanted our home addresses.

00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:59.999
21st of September, 1990. Five of us
in the group have received libel

00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.999
writs over the \"What\'s Wrong with McDonald\'s?\" leafets. I think
it was dark. And there was a guy standing in front of me umm…

00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.999
as I stepped from the van. And he said,
\"Helen.\" And I didn\'t say anything,

00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:14.999
because I didn\'t know who he was. And
he just threw this envelope at my feet.

00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:19.999
And when I picked it up and
opened it, it was the Writ.

00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:24.999
In with the Writ was a letter saying that there
would be a court case unless we apologized.

00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:29.999
After the writs were served, we
had two hours of free legal aid,

00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:34.999
uh… which effectively meant

00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:39.999
being told you got no chance.
The other three people

00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:44.999
who had the writs, they felt, you know, that they
didn\'t really have any choice but to sort of apologize,

00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:49.999
because of the odds being
stacked against us. But for me,

00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:58.000
it just sort of really stuck in the throat
to apologize to McDonald\'s. You know,

00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:04.999
I… I didn\'t think that we\'d done anything that deserved an
apology. I thought it was them that should be apologizing to us.

00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:09.999
Well, not us specifically, but
to society for the damage

00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:14.999
that they do to society and the environment. Really,
when Helen said she was going to go for it, I thought,

00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:19.999
\"I\'m going to go for it too,
because two is better than one.\"

00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.999
Even though, you know, we were being told
it was a virtually impossible battle,

00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:29.999
uh… me and Dave decided to…to
carry on and fight it anyway,

00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:34.999
come what may really.

00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.999
The world\'s largest fast-food business, McDonald\'s, has begun a libel
action at the High Court against two environmental campaigners.

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:44.999
Dave Morris and Helen Steel are accused
of claiming that McDonald\'s\' products

00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:49.999
caused ill health and
destroyed rainforests.

00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.999
McDonald\'s argued

00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:59.999
that we should be denied a jury because a jury would
find the issues in the case too complex to deal with.

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:04.999
And we just thought that
it should be thrown out.

00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:09.999
It\'s just so ridiculous. You know, we\'ve got to
understand it. We\'re ordinary members of the public.

00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:14.999
So, you know, why can\'t a jury understand
what\'s going on? But much to our horror,

00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:19.999
it wasn\'t just thrown out.
And, you know, the judge

00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.999
went along with their argument, and ruled
that we wouldn\'t have a jury. And basically,

00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.999
that meant we were left presenting the case
to a judge on his own, Mr. Justice Bell.

00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.999
McDonald\'s hired one of the top
libel barristers in the country,

00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:39.999
Richard Rampton, QC. He gets
about 2,000 pounds a day.

00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:44.999
He brought with him a junior
barrister, Timothy Atkinson, and also

00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:49.999
the head solicitor, Patty Brinly-Codd and a
whole team of about seven solicitors and clerks

00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:54.999
working behind the scenes. And
meanwhile, we were defending ourselves.

00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:59.999
The fast food Company, McDonald\'s,
has begun a High Court libel action

00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.999
against two environmental campaigners. In
Court this morning, counsel for McDonald\'s

00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:09.999
said the allegations were totally false.

00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:14.999
So far as McDonald\'s is concerned, anybody is free
to express his criticism in whatever form he wishes.

00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:19.999
McDonald\'s may not like it, but
they will never try to prevent it.

00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:24.999
They cannot, and do not object to fair
and reasonable, and honest, criticism

00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:29.999
of their business or their products. We
just had no idea of…of the procedure,

00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.999
or what we had to say, or when we had to
say it. You know, who spoke in what order.

00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:39.999
We were just treated like, you know, \"What
are these people doing in my courtroom?\"

00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:44.999
That\'s… that\'s just got to me gone. I mean, at the first
hearing uh… we asked the judge to explain the procedures,

00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:49.999
and he said, \"If you don\'t know the
procedures, you should be represented.\"

00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.999
And we said, \"Well, there\'s no legal aid.
What are we meant to do?\"

00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:59.999
We pride ourselves on having a legal system which is the best in the
world. And we pride ourselves on the fact that we\'ve all got free speech.

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.999
But in reality, of course, that
simply isn\'t the situation.

00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:09.999
You don\'t get free lawyers for libel
cases, so we had to represent ourselves.

00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:14.999
But luckily, Keir came along
early on and volunteered to help

00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:19.999
us out with legal advice.

00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.999
I immediately saw that McDonald\'s had a very strong legal team,
and that it was a complicated case, raising all sorts of issues.

00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:29.999
And as soon as I saw the unbalance, I
decided that I would do what I could

00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:34.999
to help them. The libel laws in England

00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:39.999
were notoriously anti-free speech, because
of the burdens they put on defendants

00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:44.999
to prove so much of the case.
So in this case,

00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:49.999
David and Helen have to prove the truth
of everything that\'s in the leaflet.

00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.999
McDonald\'s can sit back and prove nothing.
That\'s a huge

00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:59.999
and disproportionate burden.

00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:04.999
My Lord, the topic is nutrition.

00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.999
The issue as I pose it is this: Does
the plaintiff\'s food constitute

00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:14.999
a significant hazard to human health?

00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:23.000
[music]

00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.999
Dr. Arnott, is it not a fact that many
responsible international governmental

00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:34.999
and academic organizations have said that they
consider that there is a link between diet and cancer,

00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:39.999
although the fact is not known precisely?
Would that be reasonable?

00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:44.999
I think what is true to say is people have suggested that there
may well be a link between diet and various forms of cancer,

00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:49.999
although one has not been able to show
that in scientifically conducted trials.

00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:54.999
We have conflicting evidence, some of which

00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:59.999
suggests there is a relationship between
certain items in the diet and cancer,

00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.999
and equally convincing evidence from other
studies which fail to demonstrate that.

00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.999
One of the first big hurdles we faced was
finding witnesses to prove our case,

00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:14.999
but we soon managed to get a list of about 60
together. Some of the world\'s top experts on diet

00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:19.999
and cancer stepped forward to help,
including Professor Colin Campbell,

00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:24.999
who flew over from America
to give evidence.

00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:29.999
The high fat intake, the high animal protein intake,
the lack of these other things, uh… lead into

00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.999
increased risk of cancers of various and sundry kinds,
increased risks of various kinds of heart disease, diabetes.

00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:39.999
And they are the kind of
diseases that actually kill

00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.999
upwards of three quarters of us in
Western society before our time.

00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:49.999
It is clear that the science is
really on David and Helen\'s side.

00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:54.999
It\'s not on McDonald\'s side. The World
Health Organization have been saying

00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:59.999
that people should cut down on the fat in
their diet, and eat more fiber, and so on,

00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.999
in order to cut down on their risk of
getting heart disease and cancer. And if…if

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:09.999
bodies such as they are making those
statements, then we should be able to say it.

00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:14.999
Whether or not you can call some top expert
to, you know, prove it conclusively,

00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:19.999
is…is irrelevant.

00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:24.999
I think worldwide, if you look

00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:29.999
at the rise in fast-food consumption,
it is very closely linked

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.999
to the rise in obesity.

00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:39.999
Throughout the Western world, life
expectancy is probably going to decline

00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:44.999
because of the obesity epidemic. You
know, you can point to many causes,

00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:49.999
complex causes of obesity, but
I think there is no question

00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:54.999
that the amount of fast food and
soda that people are consuming,

00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:59.999
is a major cause of obesity.

00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:05.000
Everywhere that the American fast-food
diet goes, people get bigger.

00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:14.999
Well, I want to ask you
about another document

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.999
about advice to the public.

00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.999
A diet high in fat, sugar, and animal products, and
salt, and low in fiber, vitamins and minerals,

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:29.999
is linked with cancer of the breast, bowel, and
heart disease. Is that a reasonable statement?

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.999
It has been linked, yes. So, would
that be a reasonable statement?

00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:39.999
Well, it depends on whom it is directed.

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:44.999
The public. If it\'s being directed
to the public, then I would say that

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.999
it is a very reasonable thing to say.

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.999
But if it\'s being directed toward the scientific
community, then I think one would be a bit more careful

00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.999
in the language that one used.
Well, that\'s actually

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.999
a direct quote from the London Greenpeace fact
sheet, which is the subject of the libel action.

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.999
Here they were suing us to try and prevent
us from saying that diet was linked

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.999
to heart disease and cancer, and, you know, their own
expert was saying it\'s a very reasonable thing to say.

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.999
I mean, to me that should have been the end of it, and the judge
should have said, \"Right, well, we don\'t need any more on this.\"

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.999
The cross-examination was
devastating as far as McDonald\'s

00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.999
were concerned and many top lawyers would have been
proud to have got the answers that Dave and Helen

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.999
managed to get out of McDonald\'s\' experts.
And as a result, Mr. Rampton had to

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.999
move the goal posts of his case.
Instead of saying

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.999
the particular phrase meant one thing, he now argues
that it means something completely different.

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.999
I\'m really exhausted. I know.

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.999
It was sort of fun, though, really. I mean, it was really
stressful. They didn\'t get anywhere, that\'s what I think.

00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.999
Yeah. It\'s quite funny, because the transcripts,
sometimes it comes out that me and Dave have said,

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.999
\"Something, something, something, My Lord.\" We\'ve
never once said \"My Lord,\" because we believe in

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.999
treating him with respect, as another human
being, but don\'t believe in deferring,

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.999
or what have you. We do stand up
though when it comes to (inaudible).

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.999
I think Helen and me have a
particularly good working relationship,

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.999
because we have campaigned together on
a number of issues for over 10 years.

00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.999
We even shared a house at one
time with other people as well.

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.999
But that\'s about as far as it goes.
There\'s no sex angle, I\'m afraid.

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:39.999
May it credibly be suggested

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.999
that McDonald\'s wish to sell food
leads them to deceive people

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.999
as to the composition and the health value
of the food? McDonald\'s spends $2 billion

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.999
every year creating an image of the Company

00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:59.999
that\'s nothing like the reality.
I meant McDonald\'s.

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.999
[music]

00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.999
They are actually selling poor quality food,
junk food, uh…. but they\'re advertising

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.999
it as though it\'s healthy. We tracked down a
witness on this issue who came over from Texas

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.999
to give evidence.

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.999
The point is the entire ad campaign. Not one little claim, and one
little ad, but the whole campaign was intrinsically deceptive.

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.999
We didn\'t mind them promoting their foods. We weren\'t
trying to stop them from selling their foods.

00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.999
Our concern was simply that they would
be selling it under a false pretext.

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.999
That they would be telling people, \"Don\'t worry about eating
at McDonald\'s, because you\'re really eating healthy food.\"

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.999
And I do believe that for McDonald\'s
to call its food nutritious is a lie

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.999
to the public, whether the British
public, or the American public.

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.999
Do the plaintiffs aim, and I quote, \"Nearly
all their advertising at children?\"

00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.999
Let\'s teach everyone the
new McDonald\'s song.

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.999
It was realized pretty early on that people\'s
eating habits are formed in childhood,

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:09.999
and that if you\'ve got people
eating this food young,

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.999
they would eat it for the rest of their
lives. The average American child sees

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.999
20,000 junk food ads per
year on television.

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.999
And, you know, that is their
nutritional education. That is how

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.999
children are being taught about food.
There is no aspect

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.999
of children\'s conscious life that
they haven\'t tried to infiltrate.

00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.999
In the home through television, the
schools through advertising in schools,

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.999
from marketing in schools,
movies, sports, you name it.

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.999
[music]

00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.999
You can\'t market guns to kids, you know.
You can\'t market alcohol.

00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:59.999
And yet these fast food chains, and McDonald\'s
in particular, are targeting children

00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.999
with food that, you know, is going
to have long term, unhealthy impact

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.999
on their lives.

00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.999
Because I\'m in court every day, I
can\'t pick Charlie up from school.

00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.999
I can\'t get back in time. So I booked
him into a play center after school.

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.999
Charlie was quite excited about

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.999
the play center organizing a fun day with
the parents and children taking part.

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.999
And suddenly, though, I walked into the Center, and
there was a poster of Ronald McDonald on the window.

00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:39.999
McDonald\'s, of all people, were
taking over my son\'s fun day.

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:48.000
[music]

00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.999
So on the day that Ronald
McDonald, and 12 minders,

00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.999
turned up, bringing with
them a so-called \"donation\"

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.999
of 500 pounds, but it was obvious it
had nothing to do with the community,

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.999
it was just about great publicity for them.

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.999
I don\'t think I\'ve seen so
closely just how pernicious

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:19.999
their tactics are in invading
the minds of children,

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.999
and hyping them up, and
effectively brainwashing them.

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:29.999
No videoing. Sorry.

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.999
The magic word that we\'ll use today is Ronald
McDonald. Now, when I count \"1, 2, 3,\" I want you all

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:39.999
to shout as loud as you can.

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.999
\"One, two, three.\" Ronald McDonald.

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.999
Call that a shout? Try again.
\"One, two, three.\"

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:54.999
Ronald McDonald.

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.999
I just done it. Hey, well done.
Well, I\'ve done myself…

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.999
What happened today only
further convinces me

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.999
that we\'ve been absolutely right to
spend five years of our lives fighting

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.999
to get over the truth about McDonald\'s, because they
are so dangerous when they target vulnerable children.

00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:19.999
And now I\'m only angrier,
and more determined,

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.999
to see this case through to the end.

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:29.999
For McDonald\'s to try and justify themselves, to
bring in all of their big guns into the witness box,

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.999
researchers, paid consultants,
heads of department,

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:39.999
top executives, members of the board of
directors. We comply with all legislation,

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.999
all regulatory agencies

00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:49.999
in our advertising practices
and I stand by those.

00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:54.999
Normally, if you\'re campaigning against a
multinational, if you ever get to speak to somebody,

00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:59.999
it\'s a PR person, and they can
just trot out their glib answers.

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.999
Whereas, when you\'ve got an executive in the witness box, they
can\'t walk away. You know, they have to answer your questions.

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.999
Why is it necessary for the
McDonald\'s corporation

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.999
to have that constant bombardment of young
children with commercial advertising?

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:19.999
First of all, I would not agree with
your characterization of \"bombardment.\"

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.999
It is certainly a large marketing effort,
and if the children enjoy these activities,

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.999
we would want them to
participate in them. Obviously,

00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.999
we want them to remember McDonald\'s
and by remembering McDonald\'s,

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.999
the next time they have a chance to
go out to eat, they might select that

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.999
over one of our competitors. For lots
of fun … Lots of fun for everyone.

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.999
For everyone.

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.999
Advertisers like McDonald\'s are very aware of \"pester
power.\" \"Pester power,\" as any parent will know,

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:59.999
is the ability children have to pester them for something that
they want. And they can exert a tremendous amount of influence.

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.999
And this is being recognized by marketers.

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.999
One of the biggest battles that we had throughout the trial
was getting McDonald\'s to hand over the relevant documents.

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.999
It took literally years
before they handed over their

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.999
operations manual, or \"The
Bible\" as they call it.

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.999
Remember, children exert a phenomenal influence
when it comes to restaurant selection.

00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.999
This means you should do everything you can to
appeal to children\'s love for Ronald and McDonald\'s.

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.999
Birthday parties are an important way

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.999
to generate added sales and profits.

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.999
Offering toys is one of the best ways
to make children loyal supporters.

00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.999
McDonald\'s gives away gifts
and collectible items

00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:54.999
with many of their meals,
particularly happy meals,

00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.999
which are targeted towards younger children. And
of course, if you want to collect the whole set,

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.999
you have to go back week after week. At
the sign that says, \"You\'re welcome,\"

00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:09.999
a visit to McDonald\'s makes your day.

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.999
\"Hi boys and girls. How you doing today?

00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.999
It\'s Ronald McDonald, your friend. And boy,
gosh-by-golly, we\'re going to have a lot of fun today.\"

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.999
I mean, I was like,

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.999
who is the guy in the, Third Reich
who was the propaganda minister?

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.999
That\'s what I was, you know.
Ronald McDonald. Kids love him.

00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.999
And they don\'t know why they love him. They
love him because they were told to love him,

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.999
and somebody paid somebody to make
them love him. These are adults

00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.999
trying to manipulate little kids to
get their parents to spend money

00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.999
in a certain way. And if they were
selling the most wonderful health food,

00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.999
maybe you could justify it. But that much time
and energy and effort to manipulate children

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.999
to do something unhealthy
is pretty appalling.

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.999
I\'m…I\'M drinking cola coka! I mean,
anybody can really manipulate a child.

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.999
This is not that difficult. And
I just went home one night

00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.999
and I said, \"No, no, no, I cannot do this.
I can\'t live with myself

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.999
if I continue to do this.\"
19th of August, 1994,

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.999
McDonald\'s wants to settle the case out of court.
They must be worried. We\'re not going to let

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.999
them off the hook, though. Don\'t want anyone
else to have to go through this ordeal.

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:39.999
We got a note out of the blue that McDonald\'s
wanted to meet us any place, any time.

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.999
And they would fly over members of their
board of directors, which they did,

00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.999
because they wanted to settle the case.
And they flew over

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:55.000
to have secret talks with us, me and Helen.

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.999
We made it absolutely clear

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.999
that we would only consider allowing
them to pull out of the case

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.999
if they apologize to all of the
people they had sued in the past

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.999
who had made similar criticisms to
us, and guaranteed not to sue people

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:43.000
in the future.

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.999
We wrote back a letter saying, you know, we
would consider that if they agreed not to umm…

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.999
not to run any more advertisements
about McDonald\'s, and said,

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.999
\"Of course this agreement wouldn\'t prevent you from privately
recommending McDonald\'s to your friends and neighbors.\"

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:38.000
They didn\'t reply to that one.

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.999
There was really such a gulf between
the two sides, they just couldn\'t bear

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.999
to accept any of our demands, really.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.999
And so it was back to court.

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.999
Good morning. So are you doing
the cross-examinations today,

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.999
or am I doing it? Who\'s starting?

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.999
You start. I\'m not ready…

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.999
I state the issue in this way,

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.999
and I hope the Lordship will consider
it a fair way of stating it.

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:19.999
Is the plaintiff\'s use of resources
significantly detrimental

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.999
to the environment?

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.999
Any company as large as McDonald\'s

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.999
is bound to have a huge, and
usually very bad impact

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.999
on the environment. I mean,
when one thinks of all their

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.999
tens of thousands of stores
worldwide, and the demand

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.999
that McDonald\'s as a corporation creates for
wood and paper pulp and chemicals and metals,

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.999
the environmental impact of these

00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.999
production processes is huge.

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.999
We take our environmental responsibility
very seriously. We take the goals of reduce,

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:09.999
recycle, and re-use, and apply them wherever
practical across the entire business.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.999
McDonald\'s has absolutely nothing to do

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.999
with the rainforest in
terms of beef production.

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.999
We never have, and we never will. We always knew it
would be an uphill struggle to get evidence of direct

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.999
involvement by McDonald\'s in tropical
forest destruction. After all,

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.999
all the witnesses, and the official documents
and so on, were on the other side of the world.

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.999
And we didn\'t have the resources to track
them down and bring them to court.

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.999
When you sit back and think about some of the witnesses
that could have come on behalf of David and Helen,

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.999
but didn\'t because nobody could pay
their airfare, uh… the verdict pales

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.999
into insignificance. It\'s meaningless.
If both sides had…

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.999
had all the witnesses they wanted there, then
a true verdict might have been possible.

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.999
But with the best will in the
world, the judge can only give

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.999
the verdict according to the evidence.
And the evidence costs money.

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.999
Isn\'t it a fact of life that virtually every main
street has a great amount of McDonald\'s packaging.

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.999
It is not a fact of life. Dozens,
if not hundreds of items…

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.999
Not a fact of life! I walked through Paddington
this morning, I found one McDonald\'s package,

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.999
which I disposed of. So I think
that is a gross overstatement.

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.999
There were two on Waterloo Bridge this morning.
But I didn\'t dispose of them, I\'m afraid.

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.999
I would have done.

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.999
During the summer last year, I really felt like I needed to
get away from the case, and get away from McDonald\'s as well.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.999
And I went up to Scotland, and I
climbed up Ben Lomand one day.

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.999
You expect that everywhere you go in London,
you see their litter and so on. But, you know,

00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:59.999
I climbed up to the top of this mountain, and it was the
last place I expected to be reminded of McDonald\'s.

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.999
And there you are: there\'s someone sitting
at the top with a McDonald\'s t-shirt.

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:09.999
You can\'t get away from them. The campaign is going to continue.
McDonald\'s has completely failed to silence the critics.

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.999
I\'m normally quite a private person, and I
actually find it quite hard talking to the media.

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.999
I feel absolutely fine speaking in court,
but put me in front of the camera,

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.999
and I just want to curl up.

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:29.999
We think we\'ve already won, whatever
the verdict because McDonald\'s efforts

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.999
to intimidate and silence its
critics… It has completely backfired.

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:39.999
Effectively the tables have been turned. And it\'s McDonald\'s
and their business practices… That they are on trial.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.999
McDonald\'s has had every conceivable
advantage that money can buy in this case.

00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.999
The one thing that we believe that we\'ve got
that they haven\'t… Is the truth on our side.

00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:54.999
And that\'s why it\'s going on so long. It\'s
particularly frustrating when you spend,

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:59.999
you know, a couple of hours talking to a
journalist about all the issues in the case,

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.999
and then two weeks later you see the article,
and it\'s sort of about your haircut,

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.999
and what jumper you\'ve got on. We got more and
more frustrated with the mainstream media

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:14.999
ignoring the real issues. But then, out
of the blue, a solution came along.

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.999
Some newfangled invention
called the Internet.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.999
16th of February, 1996. We\'re launching the
new website in Lester Square this morning.

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.999
Finally, the public will be able to get
the real story, the complete story.

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.999
This McSpotlight website is a library

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.999
of information about the
McDonald\'s corporation.

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.999
All the things they don\'t want you to know,
and all the things they\'ve now failed

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.999
to stop the public finding out about.

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:54.999
We\'ve taken what Helen and Dave did one stage further, and made this
available internationally for all time, never to be censored again.

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.999
Now you can have the original leaflet in many different
languages, and print it out and distribute it.

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.999
We are now launching the site.

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.999
It\'s coming now. I don\'t know if you can see it,
but it\'s coming up on the screen. McSpotlight.

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.999
Yeah! Wow!

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.999
We see what we\'re doing

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.999
as enabling society to have the
information it needs so that people

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.999
can choose whether they want multinationals, whether
they want junk food, whether they want McJobs,

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.999
because they\'ve got the full information
to decide for themselves. You do not see,

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:39.999
for the most part, strong, outspoken criticism
of McDonald\'s by the major television networks.

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.999
Because they are so dependent on McDonald\'s

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.999
and the other fast food chains for the
advertising dollars. This was an incredible

00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:54.999
new way to get around the stranglehold

00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:59.999
that the corporate media
had on information.

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.999
McSpotlight really pushed things up a year for us. More
publicity, more donations, and lots of people coming forward

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:09.999
wanting to tell us their experiences
with McDonald\'s. Sarah!

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.999
It\'s about 10 past 8. We\'ve had a lot of
witnesses coming from all over the world,

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.999
and we had to find a place for them to stay.
We couldn\'t afford hotels, so quite a few

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.999
of them stayed in this house,
upstairs in my spare room.

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.999
It\'s been a bit of a culture shock. The first day I got here, and he
showed me where the bathroom was, I said, \"Where is your shower?\"

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.999
I\'ve met so many people

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.999
from eminent scientists, you know,
to ex-workers from McDonald\'s,

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.999
from Norway, you know, and it\'s
just been a fantastic experience.

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.999
A lot of my friends and family think
I\'m a bit crazy for coming over here,

00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.999
right in the middle of exams almost.

00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:59.999
A lot of people don\'t understand
my passion about this.

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.999
Umm… To be able to stand up to a corporation, and
let them know what they\'ve done to people like me.

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.999
A lot of them think I\'m
sort of an extremist

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:14.999
but I\'m not, really.

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.999
[music]

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.999
Then I pass to employment.
The issue I pose here is,

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:29.999
\"Do the plaintiffs cynically exploit
their workforce for the sake

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.999
of a fast buck? Are the plaintiffs
hostile to trade unions?\"

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.999
We believe companies should be profitable,
but profit cannot be the only consideration.

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.999
And in the case of McDonald\'s, it seems to
be absolutely the overriding consideration.

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.999
[music]

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:54.999
The type of work organization
promoted by McDonald\'s,

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.999
its extreme breaking down of simple
repetitive operations and so forth,

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.999
it is essentially dehumanizing.

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.999
The McDonald\'s kitchen is deliberately designed to
control workers, and have as little initiative,

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.999
and creativity, and voice to the
worker as possible. They are basically

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.999
treated like cogs in a machine. It enables
the worker to be extremely replaceable.

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.999
Interchangeable workers… Extreme
exploitation of the workforce.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.999
Cheap workers. Low scale, low pay.
High turnover… High stress…

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.999
No benefits… Exhausting and unstable jobs.
That\'s why these are called \"McJobs.\"

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:43.000
[music]

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:50.000
I love the way you turn it. It\'s great.

00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.999
A skilled worker would have to be paid a
decent wage. So by having so much elaborate,

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.999
high-tech machinery in the kitchen,

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.999
the knowledge is being built into the operating system, and
you\'re not relying on the knowledge of any individual worker.

00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.999
And you can get rid of whomever you want.
People want to be part of a winner.

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.999
They want to be part of something successful.
Hard work doesn\'t frighten youth today,

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.999
not at all. They want to be part of something
that\'s victorious. Something they can see as

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.999
The Shining Light.

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.999
Good morning! Welcome to
Hamburger University.

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:39.999
It\'s no surprise to me that as many

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.999
as two-thirds of the fast food robberies
are inside jobs, either by workers

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.999
or former workers, or friends of workers.
When you\'re happy with your job,

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.999
you don\'t generally try to hold
up your employer at gunpoint.

00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:59.999
Well, in Ontario, there\'s two minimum
wages. Umm… There\'s one for under 18,

00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.999
which is lower than the over 18\'s, and McDonald\'s
seems to hire huge amounts of under 18\'s,

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.999
because their wage is a lot lower.

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.999
The minimum wage in the United States
right now, adjusted for inflation,

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.999
is the lowest it\'s been in more
than 50 years. So this is a pay cut

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.999
for the poorest workers in the United States.
The fast food industry has played a large role

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.999
in insuring that the poor get that
pay cut, and the ripple effect

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.999
you can see throughout society. How many billions
of dollars do they make profit in a year,

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.999
you know? I think if they could give maybe
half of that back to their employees,

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.999
you know, it might be better.

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.999
When we argued that in court, the judge
kind of intervened and said, \"You know,

00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:54.999
the Company\'s owned by shareholders, and if the
shareholders don\'t keep getting these profits,

00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:59.999
then they won\'t be shareholders. And then the company will
close down.\" He seemed to be sort of completely judging

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.999
it on their terms. You know, we are
entitled to put forth a different view,

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.999
and argue that we want a society that\'s
not run for the benefit of shareholders,

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.999
but that\'s run for the
benefit of everybody.

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.999
When I was a postman, I was secretary of our trade union branch,
and very involved in trying to improve conditions at work.

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:24.999
I remember delivering letters
to a McDonald\'s store,

00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:29.999
and when I saw how they used to treat their
workers, that\'s when I first thought

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.999
that there was something really dodgy about The Company.
If somebody amongst the crew was a member of the union,

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:39.999
or wished to be a member of the union, they
would not be allowed to collect subscriptions,

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.999
would they, from other people in the store?

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.999
No, no. They would not be allowed to put any notices on the
notice boards. No. They would not be allowed to inform

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.999
the union about conditions inside the stores.
Well, I don\'t know how we could stop that,

00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.999
but if we found out about it, yes. Can I
summarize it this way? They would not be allowed

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.999
to carry out any overt union
activity on McDonald\'s premises?

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:09.999
That\'s absolutely correct, sir.
Can you do better than that?

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.999
I got sort of to the stage where

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.999
I just felt I was going on a twist, continuously
thinking about McDonald\'s. And believe me,

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.999
it does get mind-numbing thinking
about McDonald\'s the whole time.

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:29.999
It had the effect on me that I ended
up dreaming about them as well,

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:34.999
which was really horrible. I mean, it\'s more like
nightmares. I got a job working in a nightclub,

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.999
which is quite a release from the
case, because it\'s so busy in there.

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:44.999
I worked there on Fridays and Saturdays,
from 10 at night until 3 in the morning.

00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:49.999
And I get paid 64 pounds per week.
And that\'s basically what I live on.

00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.999
[music]

00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.999
The McLibel Spot Campaign. The
McLibel Spot Campaign was set up

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.999
and run by volunteers on a
shoestring from someone\'s bedroom.

00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:09.999
And they coordinated publicity and protests
against McDonald\'s throughout the trial.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.999
Umm… We\'re gonna short the press releases… Well, the
campaign has raised about 30,000 pounds so far,

00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.999
all from donations from the public.
And…and that gets spent

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.999
on witness airfares, and legal costs, and
really, whatever other expenses come up.

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:29.999
I mean, it might sound a lot until you find out
that McDonald\'s has spent about 10 Million pounds.

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.999
During the time of our trial,

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:39.999
McDonald\'s have made 3.6
Billion dollars profits.

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.999
They\'ve opened a new store every four
hours, and expanded into 31 new countries.

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:49.999
[music]

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:54.999
It\'s not just what goes on at
McDonald\'s itself that is the problem,

00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:59.999
it\'s that key practices that they\'ve
pioneered over the last 50 years

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.999
are spreading throughout society, and becoming
the norm. And those key characteristics

00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:09.999
would be uniformity,
conformity, and control.

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:14.999
Control over the worker,
control over the consumer,

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.999
and a very homogenous culture that
tries to stamp out genuine iconoclasm,

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.999
and tries to control what can be said

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.999
about these companies publicly.

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.999
We\'ve invested our lives,
especially the last three years

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:39.999
have been just constant
pressure of administration,

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.999
of the paperwork, preparations,
and questioning,

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:49.999
and all kinds of legal complexities,
all down on us all the time.

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:54.999
Principles extracted from the case of (inaudible) are equally
applicable… After court on Friday, I went to the doctors

00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:59.999
and got a certificate saying that I\'m totally exhausted,
and that I need a break. I just felt totally burnt out.

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.999
And I wasn\'t really able to…to carry on.

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:09.999
Umm… And so we\'re going to be making an application
for the court to be adjourned for two weeks.

00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:14.999
There\'s so much stress, really, that, you know, we ended up taking it out on
each other. It\'s actually very easy to shift from one document to another.

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.999
I can\'t do it. That\'s just a fact. Well, if
you talk about two minutes, you could learn.

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.999
No, I can\'t. As the case goes on,
it\'s even more difficult just to do

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.999
the basics in looking after him,
because I\'m just getting exhausted.

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.999
And, you know, and he picks up with it,

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:39.999
picks up with it when he\'s in the way, instead
of just being at home and being himself.

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.999
Are you glad your dad did the court
case then, or do you wish he didn\'t?

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.999
I\'d be doing more things.
Have more things as well.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.999
What more things do you mean?
I\'d have a bit more toys,

00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:59.999
as well, I think. And
more time to get the toy.

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.999
The doctor recommended

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.999
that I should have a two-week rest rate, but the judge
basically ignored it and ruled that the trial had to continue.

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:14.999
1st of November, 1996.

00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.999
McLibel is now the longest trial ever in
English history. It certainly feels like it.

00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.999
Nearly two and half years already, a bit longer than
McDonald\'s original estimate of three to four weeks.

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.999
But at least the end is in sight now.
My Lord, the rearing and slaughter

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:34.999
of animals is next. Here, I
express the issue in this way.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.999
\"Are the methods by which
animals to make McDonald\'s food

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.999
are reared and slaughtered
cruel and inhumane?\"

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:49.999
Would you summarize for us what is your
attitude to the welfare of animals

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.999
which are used to produce
food for human consumption?

00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:59.999
My conceptions are that no animal will put on
weight or grow unless it is healthy and contented.

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.999
You can\'t force an animal
to increase its weight.

00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:09.999
Though I definitely think that we have consideration
for animals and their well-being and I do

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.999
both in terms of arbitrage
and in terms of farming.

00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:23.000
[music]

00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:29.999
On my farm in Montana, I
had 7,000 head of cattle,

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:34.999
12,000 acres of crop, 30 employees,
7 columbines, 20 tractors,

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:39.999
30 trucks. I was buying a million
dollars worth of chemicals a year.

00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:48.000
[music]

00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:54.999
We\'d eliminated the birds, killed the trees.
My brother had died of Hodgkin\'s disease,

00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:59.999
which we found is caused by dioxin from
the weed spray we were using, 2-4-5-T,

00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:04.999
better known as Agent Orange in Vietnam.

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:09.999
[music]

00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:14.999
The doctor told me I had a tumor on my spinal
cord, and if it was inside of the cord,

00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.999
I had less than one chance in a million. Now, when somebody gives
you the odds of one in a million, it really gets your attention.

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.999
[music]

00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:29.999
And I had to admit

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.999
that I had done some things on
that farm that were not very good.

00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:39.999
Well, I\'m sure that a lot of the meat
that I sold ended up in McDonald\'s.

00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:48.000
[music]

00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.999
Our standards exceed minimum
legal requirements.

00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:59.999
And if those legal requirements need to be
adjusted, that\'s really a matter for government,

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.999
it\'s a matter for agriculture. But I want to know
about it. We\'ve been sent some great footage

00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:09.999
taken secretly inside one of McDonald\'s
chicken supplies. It\'s pretty grim.

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:14.999
We\'re going to show it in court today.

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:19.999
The conditions for the poultry are outrageous.
Every day, about 1,300 adult birds

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:24.999
have their throats cut while
still fully conscious and about

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:29.999
1,000 unwanted chicks
are gassed every week.

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:34.999
These creatures have lived
for millennia one way,

00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:39.999
and in a few decades we have transformed
how they live, what they eat,

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.999
and how we eat them, and where we eat them.
So BSC and E-Coli, or 0157A7,

00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:49.999
and now maybe even avian
flu, is a logical result

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:54.999
of fundamental transformations in how we treat
animals, how we have transformed animals

00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:59.999
from sentient beings into industrial
commodities and units of production.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:04.999
Most people have no understanding at all
that animals are being fed to animals.

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:09.999
They have no idea that we are
feeding arsenic to chickens,

00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.999
that we end up recycling manure back through
the animals, that we feed them cement dust.

00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:19.999
Most of us have no idea in the
world who produced our food,

00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:24.999
or what they used on it, what it will do
to us, the environment, or the animals.

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.999
The point I was making was that Mr. Walker seemed to
be accepting that as a result of the meat industry,

00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.999
the suffering of animals is inevitable.
Is that correct?

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:39.999
Are you asking me a question? Sorry.
As a result of the meat industry,

00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.999
the suffering of animals is inevitable?
The answer to that must be yes.

00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:49.999
17th of July, 1996.

00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:54.999
Evidence finished. Yes! Now,
somehow we have to condense

00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:59.999
all of the evidence into a coherent closing speech
to convince the judge to rule in our favor.

00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.999
We\'ve got 40,000 documents,
20,000 pages of testimony.

00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:09.999
It\'s impossible without a
trained team of, you know,

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:14.999
10 lawyers, to even read a tenth of it.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:19.999
It\'s just too much for us. I mean,
we\'re so exhausted, and we\'re just

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:24.999
losing concentration now
at this crucial time.

00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:29.999
And it\'s quite possible, you know, we could…
we could fail at the last hurdle in this case.

00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:34.999
It\'s just got to the point where

00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:39.999
I don\'t have any time for
Charlie anymore, and, you know,

00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:44.999
communication has broken down between us, and I just end
up shouting at him. I\'ve just got to say to Charlie,

00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:49.999
\"Just go off and play, because
I\'ve just got work to do.\"

00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:54.999
I mean, it\'s already 2:00 in the
morning, and I\'m completely knackered.

00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:59.999
And yet, you know, tomorrow morning I\'ve got
to stand up, and we\'ve got to speak for

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:04.999
six weeks nonstop in our closing speeches.

00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:09.999
It\'s just an impossible task, really.

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:14.999
Libel laws are being used in this country
as a draconian form of mass censorship

00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:19.999
which is largely carried out in secret, largely
self-censored. The allegations in the leaflet are false.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:24.999
The picture of working life at McDonald\'s
painted by the leaflet is a grotesque…

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:29.999
Ronald McDonald is one stranger parents
certainly should warn their children about.

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:34.999
We know he has ulterior motives. There may be a causal
relationship between diet and cancer of the breast and bowel;

00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:39.999
on the other hand, there may not be. Bearing in mind
the similarity between the passage in the fact sheet,

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:44.999
and McDonald\'s own pamphlet, it was extremely…
It was about the global promotion by McDonald\'s

00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:49.999
of beef consumption, the huge advertising
budget as the world\'s largest user of beef…

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:54.999
…is just because they do not like groups such as London Greenpeace drawing these
problems to the attention of the public of the ways in which the fast food industry

00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:59.999
harm their customers and staff
and animals and the planet.

00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:04.999
One of the reasons

00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:09.999
the fast food industry grew so quickly,
and is still the food of the poor

00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:14.999
and ordinary working people, is that it\'s cheap.
But it is very similar to smoking and tobacco.

00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:19.999
The real cost, and the real consequences,
doesn\'t come in the moment.

00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:24.999
It comes 10, 20 years later. When you
look at the cost to people\'s health,

00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:29.999
when you look at the cost to the
environment, when you look at, you know,

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:34.999
how our labor system has been
transformed, and on and on and on,

00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:39.999
this is not cheap food. This
is extremely expensive food.

00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:44.999
This food is too expensive for
our societies to pay for.

00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:49.999
Because wealthy people and
corporations control all the media,

00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:54.999
it\'s very easy for them to, you know,
shape the way we see the world

00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:59.999
and buy this product and you\'ll be happier.

00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:04.999
And for them to convince us that there is no point
in fighting back, and actually everything\'s okay

00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:09.999
and just leave it in their hands. Human beings
are amazing. Look at all their inventiveness,

00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:14.999
and creativity, at all the
great things: art, music.

00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:19.999
Surely we could come up with something
better than this current economic system

00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:24.999
which allows a few people to get obscenely rich,
while half the planet have to live in poverty.

00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:29.999
For me,

00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:34.999
the most important thing is to
just be awake and alert and alive

00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:39.999
and conscious, and not
just kind of a captive of

00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:44.999
these corporate marketing campaigns.

00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:49.999
Right now we have governments

00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:54.999
that are doing the bidding of
multinational corporations.

00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:59.999
And they are in fact the
government of the world.

00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:04.999
Can they totally intimidate individuals?
Can they remove

00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:09.999
our rights and freedoms?

00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:14.999
That\'s what this trial is all about.
The trial will not be decided

00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:19.999
in high court, the trial will be decided
in the court of public opinion.

00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:24.999
19th of June, 1997,

00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:29.999
Judgment day! The 314th
and final day in court.

00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.999
I think I should wear this,

00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:39.999
even though I look like a vicar.

00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:45.000
Do I?

00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:58.000
[music]

01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:14.999
My conclusions are as follows.

01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:19.999
It has not been proved
that a diet high in fat

01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:24.999
and animal products and low in fiber leads
to a very real risk of cancer of the breast

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:29.999
or cancer of the bowel, although it is possible
that it increases the risk to some extent.

01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:34.999
The leaflet\'s message of a very
real risk of heart disease

01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:39.999
simply from eating at McDonald\'s more than just
occasionally is not justified. I do find that

01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:44.999
various of McDonald\'s advertisements have
pretended to a positive nutritional benefit

01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:49.999
which McDonald\'s food did not match. The sting of the
leaflet, to the effect that McDonald\'s exploits children

01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:54.999
by using them as more susceptible
subjects of advertising

01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:59.999
to pressurize their parents into going
to McDonald\'s, is justified. It is true.

01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:04.999
The blame for litter, which has left McDonald\'s
restaurants as packaging in customer\'s hands,

01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:09.999
lies firmly on the inconsiderate customer.
Although the expansion of beef cattle production

01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:14.999
has led to the destruction of rainforests,
there was no evidence that McDonald\'s

01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:19.999
has taken any active part.
McDonald\'s UK does pay

01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:24.999
its workers low wages, thereby helping to depress
wages for workers in the catering trade.

01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:29.999
McDonald\'s are strongly antipathetic
to any idea of unionization,

01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:34.999
but they do not have a policy of getting rid
of pro-union workers as the leaflet alleges.

01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:39.999
I do not judge McDonald\'s
conditions of work other than pay

01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:44.999
to be generally bad. McDonald\'s are
culpably responsible for cruel practices

01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:49.999
in the rearing and slaughter of some of the
animals which are used to produce their food.

01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:54.999
That leaves the question of the amounts
of damages to be awarded to McDonald\'s.

01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:59.999
I assess the damages at 60,000 pounds.

01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:04.999
We appealed against the verdict later and
managed to overturn two of the key rulings.

01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:09.999
The appeal court ruled that it is fair
to say that working conditions are bad,

01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:14.999
and crucially, eating too much McDonald\'s
food is linked to heart disease.

01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:19.999
And then they reduced the
damages to 40,000 pounds.

01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:28.000
[sil.]

01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:39.999
This is really weird! Hold your bag up.

01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:48.000
[sil.]

01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:04.999
Are you prepared to go to jail? We\'re prepared to
do anything it takes to defend the public\'s right

01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:09.999
to criticize multinational corporations.

01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:14.999
As far as we are concerned,
what would have been a loss

01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:19.999
is if we hadn\'t fought this case, and
people are being intimidated into silence.

01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:25.000
[sil.]

01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:34.999
[sil.]

01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:39.999
We are, as you can imagine,

01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:44.999
broadly satisfied with the judgment given
this morning. It\'s my responsibility

01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:49.999
to protect our reputation and
that\'s exactly what we\'ve done.

01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:54.999
Very serious allegations were made about
our Company. They were proven to be false.

01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:59.999
They had the libel team, the
expert team of lawyers,

01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.999
working for the last five years behind the scenes and
in court for them. That\'s where the victory lies,

01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:09.999
in the fact that Dave and Helen won almost half
this case with those odds stacked against them.

01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:14.999
But he said you exploit children by
using them as more susceptible subjects

01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:19.999
for advertising to pressurize their
parents into going to McDonald\'s.

01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:24.999
Well, I don\'t remember the exact words. When I have a
chance to read the specifics, I\'ll…I\'ll be able to comment.

01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:29.999
What\'s your response to that? I don\'t
know that he said that in that context.

01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:34.999
I\'ll have to look at the complete document.
A judge has ruled

01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:39.999
in our favor on all those counts. What action is
the legal system going to take against McDonald\'s?

01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:44.999
That\'s the question we ought to be asking.
Well, this wasn\'t a matter of cost.

01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:49.999
It wasn\'t a matter of damages. It was a matter of
establishing the truth. That\'s what we set out to do.

01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:54.999
That\'s exactly what we did. We\'re not going to pay
the damages, McDonald\'s doesn\'t deserve a penny.

01:05:55.000 --> 01:06:00.000
And in any event we haven\'t got any money.

01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:19.999
21st of June, 1997.

01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:24.999
Today is mass defiance day. There\'s
going to be protests outside over

01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:29.999
500 of McDonald\'s UK stores, and
lots around the world, too.

01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:34.999
They haven\'t seen the last of the leaflet.

01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:40.000
[music]

01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:49.999
[music]

01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:54.999
Well, McDonald\'s had a rough time

01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:59.999
because of McLibel. And McDonald\'s
experienced its first loss,

01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:04.999
I think, in 2002. I think in a long-term
sense, they\'re in big trouble.

01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:09.999
And I think that McLibel had a great deal to do with
that in terms of unleashing this torrent of criticism.

01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:18.000
[music]

01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:24.999
It\'s not as though

01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:29.999
people are setting out to tarnish their image,
it\'s just the reality of their business practices

01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:34.999
are becoming known.

01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:39.999
Some of the issues that Dave and Helen were raising,
such as junk food and advertising to children, uh…

01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:44.999
were not widely debated 10, 15, or 20
years ago. But now they are mainstream.

01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:49.999
The case appears to have
altered McDonald\'s tactics.

01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:54.999
Since the case, I don\'t think
McDonald\'s has even threatened anybody

01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:59.999
with libel proceedings in
similar circumstances.

01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:04.999
Well, I didn\'t want to go
to jail, but, you know,

01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:09.999
I think I would have been prepared to do it just because
otherwise the alternative is to give in to their intimidation.

01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:14.999
And I think they just realized it would be
a complete PR disaster to have us jailed.

01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:19.999
And, you know, just all about
publicity to them, so they gave up.

01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:24.999
And then on top of that, uh… they\'ve
never collected a penny in damages.

01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:29.999
I mean, obviously we weren\'t going to pay any, but they
haven\'t even…they haven\'t even tried to come after us.

01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:34.999
After the trial finished, I carried on
work in a nightclub for several years.

01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:39.999
And then I spent a couple of years training as an
electrician, and qualifying as an electrician.

01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:44.999
I\'m also involved in a housing coop.
A group of us got together

01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:49.999
so that we could have more affordable rents, and more control
over our own housing. And we\'re in the process of trying

01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:54.999
to buy a bit of land, and
then build our own houses.

01:08:55.000 --> 01:08:59.999
Excuse me, Fossie. Excuse me.
Thank you. In some ways,

01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:04.999
McLibel was a bit of a sidetrack for me, because my
main activity has always been in my local community.

01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:09.999
As you can see here, this is something
that we were successful in,

01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:14.999
getting a million pounds for traffic
calming throughout this whole estates,

01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:19.999
so the kids can play in the street,
and people can cross safely.

01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:28.000
[music]

01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:34.999
Actually, I\'d like to be an
actor, because I enjoy acting,

01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:39.999
and just being creative.

01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:44.999
5th of September, 2004.

01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:49.999
Train to Strasbourg with Dave for the
European hearing. We\'ve beaten McDonald\'s,

01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:54.999
now it\'s the UK Government\'s turn. Dave and Helen are now
taking their case to the European Court of Human Rights,

01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:59.999
which is the most important
court in all of Europe.

01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:04.999
And we\'ll seek to argue that UK law

01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:09.999
is in breach of the European Convention of Human
Rights. So the stakes could not be higher.

01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:14.999
The European Court is going to have to
consider a number of fundamental issues

01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:19.999
about English libel law.
The first is the obvious

01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:24.999
unfairness of a system that allows one party
to have huge amounts of resources and lawyers,

01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:29.999
and the other to have none,
without any legal aid.

01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:34.999
It\'s only in libel proceedings that you
can\'t get legal aid. In every other

01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:39.999
kind of legal case, legal aid is there to achieve
the balance that\'s required for justice.

01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:44.999
[music]

01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:49.999
For me, the significance
of the McLibel trial

01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:54.999
is really about, you know,
this worldwide movement now

01:10:55.000 --> 01:10:59.999
to oppose entrenched corporate
power and corporate wrongdoing.

01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:04.999
There\'s no one person responsible,

01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:09.999
but there\'s no question that when Helen
said \"No,\" it really fueled the fire.

01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:14.999
I\'m not going to bet you
money that McDonald\'s

01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:19.999
will vanish tomorrow, or that we will
suddenly, you know, transform our society

01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:24.999
into a compassionate and caring and
humane one tomorrow. But when I was born,

01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:29.999
there was segregation in the south, and
black people couldn\'t ride the same buses,

01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:34.999
or, you know, sit at the same tables with white people.
And Nelson Mandela was in prison when I was a kid.

01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:39.999
And so things absolutely can change.

01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:44.999
Okay, so we know you don\'t like
corporations, but what\'s the alternative?

01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:49.999
The alternative is basically taking

01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:54.999
control of our own lives,
our own communities,

01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:59.999
our own workplaces, and
making all of the decisions

01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:04.999
that affect our lives and affect the environment.
You know, deciding what happens with the resources,

01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:09.999
deciding what work needs to be done.

01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:14.999
People say, \"Oh, it could never work, you know. You
would just have people going around and murdering,

01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:19.999
and stealing, and things like that.\" But actually,
that\'s what happens in this society now.

01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:24.999
You know, you\'ve got corporations
and… and wealthy individuals

01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:29.999
that own vast areas of the planet, and
deny other people access to them.

01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:34.999
And it\'s…it\'s basically
stolen from everybody else.

01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:39.999
Obviously, there\'s always going to be problems in any
kind of, you know, group of people, society, or whatever.

01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:44.999
But you want to remove all
the unnecessary problems.

01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:49.999
For example, poverty in
the midst of plenty.

01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:54.999
Or some people owning 50 houses, and other
people don\'t have a home to live in.

01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:59.999
Most so-called antisocial behavior

01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:04.999
is actually people fighting over the crumbs
thrown from the table. The real people

01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:09.999
who are behaving antisocially are those that
control all of the resources, and deprive

01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:14.999
other people of what should be shared amongst us
all. If we remove corporations and governments,

01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:19.999
who care only about profits and power,

01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:24.999
and, you know, take things into our own hands,
obviously that\'s basically transforming society.

01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:29.999
That\'s a revolution. But
not just on a single day,

01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:34.999
over a period of years. But building
up strong grass roots movements

01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:39.999
until one day, we can take over all
the decision-making ourselves,

01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:44.999
and look after our planet.

01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:49.999
7th of September, 2004,

01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:54.999
European hearing this morning. Kind of ironic that we finally
got legal aid. So now we\'ve got a whole legal team with us.

01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:59.999
Keir has to do all of the talking.
We\'re not even allowed to speak.

01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:04.999
This is Parisa Wright,

01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:09.999
our assistant solicitor. This is Keir Starmer,
our wonderful QC. And this is Anthony Hudson,

01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:14.999
our junior barrister. And this
is Mark Stevens, our solicitor.

01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:19.999
I\'ve put in all the additional
bits we discussed last night.

01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:24.999
I\'ve cut out in order to make it 30
minutes. The bits I\'ve had to cut out are

01:14:25.000 --> 01:14:30.000
Professor Nicholson in its entirety.

01:14:35.000 --> 01:14:39.999
I don\'t think that matters. All those facts
and comments that were repeated six times.

01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:44.999
I never understood that anyway.
So we\'ll leave that out.

01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:49.999
It\'s long been recognized that it would
be wrong for central and local government

01:14:50.000 --> 01:14:54.999
to be able to sue for libel,
because it restricts free speech.

01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:59.999
And we\'re questioning before the European Court whether
that rule should be extended to multinationals.

01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:04.999
They often have more power and wealth
than small countries around the world.

01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:09.999
They can get their message across through the
television, through other medium, through advertising.

01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:14.999
And they don\'t need to go to court through

01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:19.999
ancient and unfair libel proceedings.

01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:24.999
So? Don\'t start asking me questions.

01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:29.999
How was it, Dave? It was great. I thought the
Government was totally on the defensive.

01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:34.999
Certainly on the lack of legal aid, which they now recognize should
be available in defamation cases in exceptional circumstances.

01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:39.999
The Government referred to that protection
of freedom of speech should require

01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:44.999
that campaigners should put the balance in their leaflet,
and put the response of McDonald\'s, for example.

01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:49.999
Well, there\'s no requirement on McDonald\'s to put the balance in
their adverts and say, \"Well, actually, our food isn\'t healthy.

01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:54.999
You\'re really better off not eating
it.\" The campaigners are the balance,

01:15:55.000 --> 01:16:00.000
and we will continue to campaign
until there is a just world.

01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:09.999
15 of February, 2005,

01:16:10.000 --> 01:16:14.999
European court verdict arrives today. Hopefully this
is the very last day of the McLibel legal battle.

01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:19.999
No court hearing, though.
Just notified by email.

01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:24.999
A bit of an anticlimax after 15 years.

01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:29.999
Hi, there. This is such a welcome.

01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:34.999
It\'s great to see you! We\'re just
trying to prepare two press releases

01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:39.999
so we can get it out as quickly as possible, rather than
writing it from scratch. We\'ve got one in case, you know,

01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:44.999
we lose on all points, and another
one in case we\'re victorious.

01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:49.999
Control C or something. Oh, for God\'s sake, you and your
Control C! You\'re obsessed with it. Well, let\'s find out.

01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:54.999
You know, we might as well find out now.
It\'s 9:30.

01:16:55.000 --> 01:16:59.999
[sil.]

01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:04.999
No, we\'re just checking it right now.
So well it might be? Hang on a second.

01:17:05.000 --> 01:17:09.999
One. What was that?

01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:14.999
No, it\'s spam, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How can you get so much
spam in one second? I know. Helen Steel: Who are these spammers?

01:17:15.000 --> 01:17:19.999
25 till 10 and they haven\'t sent it yet.
Which makes it 32 actually.

01:17:20.000 --> 01:17:24.999
I\'ll phone up the court. I think that
might be a little bit impatient.

01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:29.999
Stop. You see it\'s coming in.

01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:34.999
Don\'t shut that! Don\'t shut it! Okay.
I\'m going to phone the court

01:17:35.000 --> 01:17:39.999
and see if they\'ve sent it. The number. Just
don\'t! They\'re probably trying to sort it out.

01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:44.999
And you making endless phone calls is not going to
help. No, you\'re saying there is a technical problem?

01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:49.999
Okay, go on, here we go. Here we go. For someone
who doesn\'t care about the European Court verdict,

01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:54.999
he\'s extremely excited. I\'m not excited, I
just want to get it over with, for God\'s sake.

01:17:55.000 --> 01:17:59.999
Actually, I\'ve got an extension,
we can… we can… It\'s here!

01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:04.999
Okay. Good! Good. Ta-da. It\'ll take a
half an hour to download. I know it will.

01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:13.000
[sil.]

01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:19.999
European Court of Human Rights, press release issued
by the registrar. The European Court of Human Rights

01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:24.999
has today notified in writing a judgment in the
case of Steel and Morris vs. the United Kingdom.

01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:29.999
The Court held unanimously that there
had been a violation of Article 6,

01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:34.999
rights to a fair hearing of the European Convention of Human
Rights and that there had been a violation of Article 10,

01:18:35.000 --> 01:18:39.999
freedom of expression,
of the Convention. Hey!

01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:44.999
You know, there\'s tons of media interest,

01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:49.999
so I\'m not sure we can get to everybody.
So 11:30 at the Strand.

01:18:50.000 --> 01:18:54.999
Yeah. The email\'s going out in three or four minutes. We\'re
just doing it now, and then we\'re going to rush down there.

01:18:55.000 --> 01:18:59.999
I\'ll take the judgment down.
Anyway the media won\'t go anyway.

01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:04.999
We\'ve actually got to get our press
release out on this phone, so…

01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:09.999
Hello? Yeah, is this live or what? Well, McDonald\'s pulled out all
of the stops, and brought all of their big guns into the courtroom,

01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:14.999
liable laws. You know, heads of departments,
and members of their board of directors.

01:19:15.000 --> 01:19:19.999
They had a full legal team. They spent
about 10 million pounds trying to

01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:24.999
pull the distribution of public
criticisms, leaflets, and so on.

01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:29.999
It actually backfired on them completely.
That was World Service,

01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:34.999
BBC, which is great. It will go
all over the world. Hello, Keir!

01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:39.999
Okay, excellent! Good news, then.

01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:44.999
Phone. Then placard.

01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:49.999
Hi Charlie, listen. Just leaving a message
on your answer phone: We won our case, okay?

01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:58.000
I know you\'re having a good time. Everything\'s going
well. And I\'ll speak to you later. Okay, bye. Okay.

01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:04.999
[music]

01:20:05.000 --> 01:20:09.999
God is great.

01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:14.999
[music]

01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:19.999
[music]

01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:24.999
He\'s a single parent, she used
to be a gardener. Between them,

01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:29.999
they secured a landmark legal ruling against
one of the world\'s most powerful companies.

01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:34.999
Still protesting after all these years. But today, Helen
Steel and David Morris have something to celebrate.

01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:39.999
So they went back to the pavement outside
the fast food store where it all began,

01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:44.999
to hail what they are calling a landmark
legal victory for the little man.

01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:49.999
[music]

01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:54.999
The Government says it is studying a court
ruling in favor of two environmental campaigners

01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:59.999
who successfully challenged English libel
laws after being sued by McDonald\'s.

01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:04.999
McDonald\'s, and any other
multinational company,

01:21:05.000 --> 01:21:09.999
will think very carefully
before launching a legal action

01:21:10.000 --> 01:21:14.999
like it again. Good evening.
They lost to McDonald\'s,

01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:19.999
but today they won against the
entire English legal system.

01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:24.999
Underneath those golden arches

01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:29.999
outside the central London branch of a company that
must wish it had never taken on these two campaigners,

01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:34.999
David Morris and Helen Steel
said they had no regrets.

01:21:35.000 --> 01:21:39.999
[music]

01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:44.999
Suing over this leaflet cost McDonald\'s
an estimated 10 million pounds.

01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:49.999
Even before today\'s ruling, it\'s been described
as the worst corporate PR disaster in history.

01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:54.999
Appropriate then that two people who would
probably never go inside a McDonald\'s,

01:21:55.000 --> 01:21:59.999
hold their press conference outside the fast food
chain. They say the resistance will continue.

01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:04.999
[music]

01:22:05.000 --> 01:22:09.999
The important thing is that people should always stand up
and fight for what they believe in, uh… and, you know,

01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:14.999
make the criticisms of the way that society is currently
being run. In the David and Goliath situation,

01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:19.999
you vs. the multinational, despite
all those findings against them,

01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:24.999
fundamentally they won. I don\'t think so.
I think fundamentally they lost.

01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:29.999
It has been a David and Goliath
battle, but not in the way the media

01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:34.999
has portrayed it. The reality is,
it\'s the public that are the giants

01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:39.999
in this battle. There\'s billions and billions
of us, and corporations like McDonald\'s

01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:44.999
are just a small elite acting in their
own interests. When the public begins

01:22:45.000 --> 01:22:49.999
to stand up, and get organized,
and speak out about injustices,

01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:55.000
then nothing can stop us.