WEBVTT

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(film reel rattling)

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(intense music)

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- This painting is based
on a Rubens painting

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called the Garden of Love.

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(intense music)

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And if you know
Rubens, flesh, jewels,

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he\'s a sexy guy, he\'s great.

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(intense music)

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So here are these women
from the 15th, 16th century,

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and flying in Superman
and Supergirl.

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(intense music)

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I believe art cuts across time.

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(intense music)

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We can\'t live without art.

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Human beings need
art to help them deal

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with their mortality,
\'cause we\'re all gonna go.

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(intense music)

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(intense music)

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- Audrey was not only one
of the top photorealists,

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she was also the only woman
in that movement at the time.

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(intense music)

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- One of the interesting
things about Audrey\'s work

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is its overt defiance
of good taste.

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(intense music)

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- Audrey said, \"I am
not a feminist artist,

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\"I am a feminist
who\'s an artist.\"

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(intense music)

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(people chattering)

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- Lewis, it\'s a fabulous show.

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- There are two more rooms.

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- Fabulous.

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(camera clicking)

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What were you looking at?

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- On that one,

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did you need a ladder
to paint the top of it?

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- Yes, she needed a ladder.
- You know, I did.

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- [Andrew] Sydney
really likes that one.

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- Let me tell you, I
looked at a lot of skulls

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until I found one that
I thought was perfect,

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and you notice it
has all its teeth?

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That\'s what we all look
like underneath the skin.

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Everybody.

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(whimsical music)

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Cooper Union was the
greatest art school

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in the country at that time.

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It opened a world for me.

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And it was 8th Street
and Astor Place,

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in the heart of
Abstract Expressionism.

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It was burgeoning there.

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All the artists\'
studios, you know,

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that were around 10th Street,
8th Street, 9th Street.

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(whimsical music)

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When I got to Cooper Union
I was an abstract artist.

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(whimsical music)

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My teacher was Nick
Marsicano who was one

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of the founding members

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of the Abstract
Expressionist artists\' club.

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And that\'s how I
got to meet Pollock

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and Kline and de Kooning.

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And it wasn\'t like it is now.

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Nobody thought about money.

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You just wanted
to make great art.

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Your fame consisted of
respect that you had

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from your fellow artists.

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And when somebody
made a new painting,

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when de Kooning
made a new painting,

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everybody knew he
made a new painting.

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It was a very pure, great time.

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I was throwing paint
from 30 feet away,

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hanging out with those guys.

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It was thrilling.

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(whimsical music)

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And Pollock, I loved his work.

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All relics, like you find
in churches out there,

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paint cans and brushes.

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And the irony of somebody
who broke all the rules

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and spilled all the paint,

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and we have to wear
these little booties.

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He\'s painting.

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That\'s not a drip.

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This is very interesting,
what he\'s doing here.

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It\'s gorgeous.

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You know, the struggle that
the early Byzantine artists

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and the early 13th or
14th century artists had,

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they tried so hard to
put a figure in space.

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So Giotto would make a box.

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He would really create

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like a little
architectural enclosure,

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and he put a figure in it,
and he tried perspective.

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At first it\'s very primitive.

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As you skip centuries,
you get up to Cezanne.

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He paints objects on a
table, apples, fruit.

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And that table begins to tilt.

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And as art continues
that picture plane
tilts, tilts, tilts.

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Cubism it\'s about, it\'s
depth, is like that,

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a shadow box space.

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This guy shatters
the whole thing.

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Pow!

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He goes right through
the picture plane.

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The crazy thing is he does
it in a space on a floor,

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in a room.

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He\'s in outer space.

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(gentle music)

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The photorealist work that
I produced has a lot to do

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with my being an
abstract expressionist.

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The picture plane is tilted up,

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and there\'s things
all over my painting.

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My work has an overall pattern,

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pretty much the
way Pollock\'s does.

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You know, I\'m thinking like
an abstract expressionist.

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(intense music)

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What can I tell you
about my childhood?

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I probably would
have been on Ritalin.

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I was very hyperactive.

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Just da-da.

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Couldn\'t sit still.

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What happened was because
I was always pulled out

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of class for being b-a-d,
they sent me into the hallway

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and one teacher, God
bless this teacher,

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had a little pity on me,
gave me a piece of oak tag

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and a pencil, and that was
it, I became the class artist.

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And I think that made
the world something

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I could understand
and deal with.

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(intense music)

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My mother was a big gambler.

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Her primary love was cards.

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She used to lose the food money.

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And my mother would send
me around the corner

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to the Sunshine Dairy
and told me to charge it.

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And I remember the man, on a
paper bag he would add it up

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and I realized she
never had the money.

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(intense music)

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She did leave me alone a lot.

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I was jealous of the other kids

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because when the mothers came

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to pick their children
up after school,

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my mother was invariably
not there or late.

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(intense music)

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(traffic humming)

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This, right in here.

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Bob lived down there.

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That\'s my building!

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J. Hood Wright Park.

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Magnificent building.

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(traffic humming)

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- [Anita] We first met
when we were about eight.

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- You were on the third,

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right?
- Third floor.

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We became very close friends.

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In high school we went
to a lot of museums,

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a lot of the galleries together.

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She always had a sketchbook,
and she was drawing

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or painting or whatever.

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(intense music)

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We were talking about art,

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and what we thought
was more beautiful,

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a man\'s body, a woman\'s body.

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(intense music)

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Well, it was a primarily
Jewish neighborhood.

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(intense music)

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There was a Y a few
blocks from our house

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and it was like where
all the kids congregated.

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So we decided to go to a dance.

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- [Audrey] I bought
tangerine lipstick,

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and when I got two blocks
away I put on my lipstick.

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- [Bob] I remember
it very distinctly,
I was 15, she was 13.

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- [Audrey] And
this boy comes over

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and he had long black hair
and he wore it straight back.

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- [Bob] I went over to Audrey
and met her that evening.

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- [Audrey] And we danced.

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And then I remember he put
his hand behind my back,

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and he dipped me.

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- And from that moment on
we dated for the next four

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or five years the way
kids dated back then,

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usually in groups.

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(gentle music)

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- I accidentally
heard there\'s a school

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where you could
study art and music.

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Well, I didn\'t know
if I believed in God,

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but every night I
prayed that I could go

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to Music and Art High School.

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But you needed a portfolio.

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So I go to Woolworth\'s,
lo and behold,

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there\'s a little thing
this big, brown leatherette

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with gold embossed writing
that says, \"Portfolio\".

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So I had my little
portfolio and comes the day

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and I see all of these students
carrying real portfolios,

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huge black portfolios.

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I just wanted to die.

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This was my dream.

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I said, \"You know,
daddy, take me home.\"

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And he said, \"You\'re a Flack.

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\"Flacks don\'t give up.\"

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And he opens the door
and he shoves me out.

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The great thing was that you
had to take a test there,

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and they gave you charcoal.

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I had never seen charcoal.

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And I began drawing and I began
to feel that exhilaration.

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And then I looked
on either side of me

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and I knew I was good.

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I knew I was good.

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(gentle music)

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(hands clapping)

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(birds chirping)

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(people chattering)

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Okay, sit wherever you can,
and the rest sit on the floor.

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Well, nice to have
you, and you and you.

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So, when I went to high
school everything was Picasso,

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everything was Juan
Gris and Braque,

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and everything was Cubism.

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But when I saw an Old
Master, wow, I wanna do that.

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And they knocked it out of
you, that was old-fashioned.

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So that was the atmosphere.

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You were gonna be
new and original.

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You never copied.

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I really will
encourage you to do

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what I was taught not to do.

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You copy, you copy,
you copy, you copy.

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Nobody will ever take
your originality away.

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Nobody, certainly
no good teacher.

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Except that Albers screwed
up a couple friends of mine

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who were terrific painters
and became scrap painters.

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(gentle music)

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That is so depressing.

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Oh, my God.

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Intellectually I know
what he\'s trying to do.

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Emotionally, you stand
in front of this thing,

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I mean, if they talk about him
bringing you through emotion,

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you could kill yourself
from this painting.

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(intense music)

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Obviously this brings back
memories from 1951, \'52.

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(intense music)

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Here he was, Bauhaus
master, and he had a vision

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to go to Cooper Union and ask

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for their most
avant-garde students,

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and they gave him my name.

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I dragged 10 of my best works,

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shoved them into the
backseat of my father\'s car,

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and we drove up to Yale.

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And then suddenly
the door opens,

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and I remember him bursting
in, never said hello,

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and I\'m like, \"Ah.\"

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Looked at every work, he
said, \"You will go to Yale.

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\"You will go.\"

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That was a big deal for me.

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My parents were immigrants.

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They were very bright people,

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but my father never
went to high school.

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Anyhow Albers gives me
a scholarship to Yale.

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And I\'m, \"Hey mom, look.\"

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You know, I\'m
waving this letter.

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She\'s in the kitchen.

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And she has this dish towel
and she starts wiping her eyes

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and I think she\'s
crying with joy.

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\"Too much education ruins a
girl\'s chance of marriage.\"

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She was not very happy.

00:19:25.375 --> 00:19:27.350
(gentle music)

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Albers did not allow
any nude models.

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You know, if you were
going to be yourself,

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he was a very difficult
teacher to have

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and maintain your
identity and your style.

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(gentle music)

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So he comes into my studio

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and he starts talking
about my painting.

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And we\'re both sitting there.

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He put his hand on my knee
and it traveled up my thigh.

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And as we were looking, it
was almost like a masher

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on the subway when you\'re
not sure what they\'re doing

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\'cause they\'re looking
straight ahead.

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It had no connection to me.

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He wasn\'t looking at me at all.

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It was just really weird for
me and very shocking for me

00:20:36.999 --> 00:20:39.822
because I was in awe of
Yale and the whole idea

00:20:40.999 --> 00:20:43.416
of being there, and
I could not believe

00:20:43.417 --> 00:20:46.239
that this was happening
until he reached here,

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and which case I jumped
up from the chair.

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And the chair got knocked over,

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and I didn\'t know what to say.

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And that was it.

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I never spoke to him again.

00:21:09.625 --> 00:21:12.772
I stayed away from him, I
didn\'t take a course of his,

00:21:15.750 --> 00:21:18.444
and I never told anybody
about it until years

00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:25.258
and years later when I
was interviewed on WBAI

00:21:25.999 --> 00:21:29.083
and I sort of mentioned
it, many women called in.

00:21:31.125 --> 00:21:34.469
I was not the only one, \'cause
you\'re never the only one.

00:21:39.458 --> 00:21:41.303
(gentle music)

00:21:44.959 --> 00:21:45.749
While I was at Yale,

00:21:45.750 --> 00:21:48.508
I was copying the Old
Masters, secretly.

00:21:51.999 --> 00:21:53.847
(gentle music)

00:21:57.041 --> 00:22:00.386
So I had sketchbooks filled
with Old Master drawings.

00:22:05.250 --> 00:22:07.942
The drive to do realism
was always with me.

00:22:12.291 --> 00:22:15.507
I took a course called
\"Iconography of the Bible\"

00:22:17.125 --> 00:22:19.428
and it changed my life.

00:22:21.959 --> 00:22:24.131
It enriched the art for me.

00:22:24.417 --> 00:22:27.239
Every object there was
tremendous symbolism.

00:22:28.500 --> 00:22:31.258
Is the fruit fresh
or is it rotten?

00:22:34.208 --> 00:22:36.966
The burning candle,
how high is the flame?

00:22:41.542 --> 00:22:43.712
That was a turning point for me

00:22:44.291 --> 00:22:46.463
to start following my true gut.

00:22:52.999 --> 00:22:54.847
(cheerful music)

00:22:56.750 --> 00:22:59.767
After I graduated Yale, I had
a little studio on 8th Street.

00:23:02.999 --> 00:23:05.562
Studio had no
heat, no hot water.

00:23:06.999 --> 00:23:09.874
There was a hole in the
floor, you could see down

00:23:09.875 --> 00:23:12.631
to the guy on the second
floor who inked Batman.

00:23:14.333 --> 00:23:17.613
Comic strips were done in
pencil by the comic artists.

00:23:20.792 --> 00:23:23.094
And then there was an inker.

00:23:24.333 --> 00:23:27.027
And when he was
busy, I helped him.

00:23:29.500 --> 00:23:31.672
I had one job after another.

00:23:34.083 --> 00:23:37.297
And then I worked for six
months and go on unemployment

00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:39.411
and then I could paint.

00:23:39.875 --> 00:23:42.047
Then I sold my first painting.

00:23:43.959 --> 00:23:45.207
That was great.

00:23:45.208 --> 00:23:47.250
I got 250.

00:23:47.875 --> 00:23:48.457
That was enough.

00:23:48.458 --> 00:23:51.216
I could go to Europe
for the whole summer.

00:23:54.834 --> 00:23:56.548
I was in heaven.

00:23:56.583 --> 00:23:58.299
(gentle music)

00:24:02.999 --> 00:24:05.627
I come back, I\'m
back a week or two.

00:24:09.375 --> 00:24:11.547
My father just drops dead.

00:24:13.125 --> 00:24:15.883
I loved my father,
it was really hard.

00:24:16.875 --> 00:24:18.525
(gentle music)

00:24:47.999 --> 00:24:50.833
I don\'t think I would
have married my ex-husband

00:24:50.834 --> 00:24:52.745
if my father was alive.

00:24:53.625 --> 00:24:55.275
(gentle music)

00:24:58.709 --> 00:25:01.467
- Her first husband,
he was a cello player.

00:25:04.041 --> 00:25:07.255
He came from a good family
with quotes around it,

00:25:08.458 --> 00:25:10.825
you know, intellectuals,
musicians.

00:25:11.999 --> 00:25:14.758
So it seemed like a
really good match to her.

00:25:19.458 --> 00:25:22.086
- Well, I got
pregnant right away.

00:25:23.542 --> 00:25:25.712
And Melissa was born in 1959.

00:25:30.999 --> 00:25:33.693
So you\'re talking about
a very alive, active,

00:25:35.667 --> 00:25:38.748
up-and-coming young
artist in love with life.

00:25:41.417 --> 00:25:44.175
A year later I didn\'t
even wanna live anymore.

00:25:49.834 --> 00:25:52.461
I had been so trained
to trust my eyes

00:25:53.625 --> 00:25:56.319
that I just picked
up everything.

00:25:57.917 --> 00:26:00.608
I remember asking the
doctor in the hospital

00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:04.214
if my child could hear, because
her reactions were strange.

00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:10.648
And he goes over to the
bassinet where she\'s sleeping

00:26:10.999 --> 00:26:13.043
and he goes, boom!

00:26:14.166 --> 00:26:17.511
And, you know, poor little
Melissa, she startles

00:26:17.999 --> 00:26:20.043
and starts screaming.

00:26:20.917 --> 00:26:23.089
Didn\'t stop screaming for hours.

00:26:23.417 --> 00:26:25.587
And he says, \"She can hear\".

00:26:28.125 --> 00:26:31.339
I knew that there was
something wrong with her.

00:26:32.250 --> 00:26:35.398
Nobody knew anything
about autism at the time.

00:26:36.999 --> 00:26:40.083
You ask any parent who
had an autistic kid then,

00:26:43.333 --> 00:26:46.222
who didn\'t have
any money or help,

00:26:49.625 --> 00:26:51.275
it was brutal.

00:26:53.999 --> 00:26:56.822
When it became apparent,
then I was told I caused it.

00:27:00.834 --> 00:27:03.720
Because I\'m so unfeeling
and unemotional and cold,

00:27:04.291 --> 00:27:07.375
which is the whole
refrigerator mother thing.

00:27:09.999 --> 00:27:11.847
(fanfare)

00:27:13.709 --> 00:27:14.998
- [Announcer] The
Dick Cavett Show!

00:27:14.999 --> 00:27:17.954
- And I think that for the
child, in order to survive,

00:27:19.166 --> 00:27:21.833
one must have the
feeling that somebody,

00:27:21.834 --> 00:27:23.874
you are terribly
important to somebody.

00:27:23.875 --> 00:27:26.631
- Somebody cares.
- That somebody really cares

00:27:27.333 --> 00:27:27.998
for you.

00:27:27.999 --> 00:27:30.040
In the case of these
extremely disturbed children,

00:27:30.041 --> 00:27:33.321
not only nobody cared, but
this autistic child felt

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:37.692
that everybody wants
him to be dead.

00:27:39.999 --> 00:27:42.562
- It was a terrible,
terrible time,

00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:46.692
for the children
and for the parents.

00:27:48.834 --> 00:27:51.592
How do you tell someone
that you have a child

00:27:51.667 --> 00:27:53.374
that maybe sleeps one hour.

00:27:53.375 --> 00:27:56.198
And they think, \"Well,
you\'re exaggerating.\"

00:27:58.250 --> 00:28:01.464
When she went to bed, sometimes
she\'d get three, four hours.

00:28:05.041 --> 00:28:07.541
Often I had to paint
holding Melissa,

00:28:07.542 --> 00:28:10.365
\'cause that was the only
time she\'d stop crying.

00:28:11.709 --> 00:28:13.359
(gentle music)

00:28:14.999 --> 00:28:18.018
In the middle of the night it
was a beautiful time for me,

00:28:19.041 --> 00:28:21.344
the world was asleep.

00:28:23.999 --> 00:28:25.624
That kept me alive.

00:28:25.625 --> 00:28:27.275
(gentle music)

00:28:28.999 --> 00:28:31.562
Hannah was born
when Missy was two.

00:28:32.125 --> 00:28:35.013
The minute I saw her,
I knew she was fine.

00:28:38.999 --> 00:28:40.958
- We\'d come down to the house.

00:28:40.959 --> 00:28:41.998
It was always exciting.

00:28:41.999 --> 00:28:42.916
What are you doing?

00:28:42.917 --> 00:28:44.998
What are you working on now?

00:28:44.999 --> 00:28:46.782
(gentle music)

00:28:52.999 --> 00:28:56.018
And we\'d talk about the
difficulties of her marriage.

00:28:56.041 --> 00:28:59.386
Her husband was nowhere to be
seen in terms of the children.

00:29:01.750 --> 00:29:03.833
She had to go to work,
and she taught art

00:29:03.834 --> 00:29:05.998
\'cause there wasn\'t enough
money coming into the household.

00:29:05.999 --> 00:29:09.474
And you always had
to find somebody to
take care of Melissa.

00:29:10.999 --> 00:29:13.758
But she never stopped painting,
never stopped drawing.

00:29:15.333 --> 00:29:17.505
It was her heart and soul.

00:29:18.041 --> 00:29:20.085
(gentle music)

00:29:33.083 --> 00:29:35.386
(traffic humming)

00:29:52.917 --> 00:29:54.828
- Do you step back much?

00:29:54.999 --> 00:29:56.998
Or do you keep
the same distance?

00:29:56.999 --> 00:29:59.954
- [Philip] You know, I get
close and I step back, both.

00:30:04.291 --> 00:30:05.916
- Her face is wonderful.

00:30:05.917 --> 00:30:08.089
Realism was looked down upon.

00:30:10.667 --> 00:30:12.249
So there were a few artists,

00:30:12.250 --> 00:30:15.073
we drew together in
each other\'s houses.

00:30:16.250 --> 00:30:18.420
We\'d hire a model.

00:30:19.041 --> 00:30:22.386
I was the only woman, never
thought about it, just was.

00:30:26.291 --> 00:30:28.833
So, how many years
do we go back?

00:30:28.834 --> 00:30:31.654
- Early 1950s.
- Early 1950s, and this is...

00:30:33.959 --> 00:30:34.541
What is this?

00:30:34.542 --> 00:30:37.300
2017.
- Wow, that\'s a long time.

00:30:40.625 --> 00:30:43.383
- I became more
and more realistic.

00:30:44.834 --> 00:30:47.070
I just wanted to perfect this.

00:30:48.083 --> 00:30:50.191
(gentle music)

00:30:51.250 --> 00:30:54.789
Then I wanted to paint the
kids, Melissa and Hannah.

00:30:55.166 --> 00:30:57.989
Well, they\'re not
gonna sit still,

00:30:57.999 --> 00:31:00.238
and the time I had was at night,

00:31:00.917 --> 00:31:03.374
so I had a little
Brownie camera.

00:31:03.375 --> 00:31:06.067
It produced a picture
that was that big.

00:31:07.166 --> 00:31:09.924
And I started working
using that as reference,

00:31:11.625 --> 00:31:13.927
little black and
white snapshots.

00:31:14.125 --> 00:31:16.491
And that\'s how it started.

00:31:17.875 --> 00:31:19.525
It didn\'t move.

00:31:19.583 --> 00:31:22.796
If I was gonna do a still life,
the fruit didn\'t get rotten,

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:27.822
the model didn\'t twitch
and run to the bathroom.

00:31:31.999 --> 00:31:34.368
So I began to study photographs,

00:31:35.291 --> 00:31:38.441
and there\'s something wonderful,
what the photograph does.

00:31:40.333 --> 00:31:43.678
It goes into my brain, and
it has to get translated

00:31:46.792 --> 00:31:48.874
into something flat.

00:31:48.875 --> 00:31:51.113
And it enhanced my vision.

00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:55.888
But, you know, you
were the only one

00:31:56.792 --> 00:31:59.678
that wasn\'t mad at me
for using photographs.

00:32:00.125 --> 00:32:03.339
- I remember they decided
to call a conference.

00:32:03.750 --> 00:32:06.702
And then about 300 people
every week showed up

00:32:08.166 --> 00:32:10.794
to discuss the problems
of figurative art.

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.627
Not working from
photographs became one

00:32:16.959 --> 00:32:19.290
of their principles.
- Oh, yeah,

00:32:19.291 --> 00:32:21.463
I was the devil incarnate.

00:32:22.667 --> 00:32:23.998
- No, no, you weren\'t.

00:32:23.999 --> 00:32:25.958
- Yes.
- Chuck Close.

00:32:25.959 --> 00:32:28.584
- If--
- They invited Chuck Close.

00:32:28.999 --> 00:32:30.977
And Chuck gave his talk.

00:32:30.999 --> 00:32:33.624
Then when he asked for
questions they showered him

00:32:33.625 --> 00:32:36.319
with beer cans, many
of which weren\'t empty.

00:32:38.999 --> 00:32:41.562
- You know, we accept
the camera now.

00:32:41.959 --> 00:32:44.131
But then only the lowest artists

00:32:47.709 --> 00:32:50.075
used the camera: illustrators.

00:32:52.375 --> 00:32:55.374
And it was a really hard time
because the kids were little

00:32:55.375 --> 00:32:58.655
and I lost a lot of my
friends, and I needed them

00:32:59.999 --> 00:33:00.998
and they wouldn\'t talk to me

00:33:00.999 --> 00:33:03.627
\'cause I was using
the photograph.

00:33:07.083 --> 00:33:07.916
\'61, \'2, \'3.

00:33:07.917 --> 00:33:10.739
Now the whole world stops
\'cause Kennedy is assassinated

00:33:12.375 --> 00:33:15.133
and I had to paint
that, I had to.

00:33:16.709 --> 00:33:18.359
(dramatic music)

00:33:19.083 --> 00:33:22.167
You know, it was a photograph
I found in a magazine.

00:33:24.125 --> 00:33:26.167
(dramatic music)

00:33:28.999 --> 00:33:31.562
- It was kind of a
bright November day,

00:33:31.583 --> 00:33:34.406
and Jackie with her
little pillbox hat,

00:33:34.999 --> 00:33:38.215
and, of course, implicit in
that is they\'re so happy,

00:33:39.792 --> 00:33:42.615
when moments later he
would be assassinated.

00:33:43.792 --> 00:33:45.442
(dramatic music)

00:33:54.625 --> 00:33:56.582
- If Audrey started painting
off of those photographs,

00:33:56.583 --> 00:33:59.796
it was not in order to tell
us something that had happened

00:33:59.834 --> 00:34:02.720
but in order to test the
waters as to what we feel

00:34:03.458 --> 00:34:05.040
about what\'s happened.

00:34:05.041 --> 00:34:07.085
(gentle music)

00:34:12.959 --> 00:34:15.586
- I got to be very
political, which I still am.

00:34:16.458 --> 00:34:19.216
Even in the still lives
the work is political.

00:34:21.999 --> 00:34:23.165
- [Interviewer] Were
these photographs

00:34:23.166 --> 00:34:24.374
that you\'ve taken yourself?
- No.

00:34:24.375 --> 00:34:26.582
Some of the photographs were
journalistic photographs

00:34:26.583 --> 00:34:29.733
and some were photographs
that I took myself.

00:34:29.875 --> 00:34:31.525
(dramatic music)

00:34:49.458 --> 00:34:52.672
- I followed what her career
was up to at that point,

00:34:52.999 --> 00:34:54.782
in 1963 or \'64.

00:34:56.667 --> 00:34:59.748
I just picked up the phone
and we met for a drink

00:34:59.999 --> 00:35:02.758
and we just talked for
hours about old times

00:35:03.500 --> 00:35:05.672
and what was in our lives now.

00:35:05.999 --> 00:35:08.693
And I think there was
certainly a large degree

00:35:08.999 --> 00:35:11.238
of unhappiness for both of us.

00:35:11.834 --> 00:35:14.249
And occasionally
we\'d see each other.

00:35:14.250 --> 00:35:16.499
Certainly, no other
thought was in my mind,

00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:18.998
and I wondered the possibilities
of getting back together

00:35:18.999 --> 00:35:21.562
and it had to be in
Audrey\'s mind also.

00:35:23.917 --> 00:35:26.608
We decided that we were
each gonna get divorced.

00:35:28.208 --> 00:35:31.422
And then we set a date in 1970
to get married and we did.

00:35:34.875 --> 00:35:36.525
(gentle music)

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:43.998
- Bob loved the children.

00:35:43.999 --> 00:35:45.912
He loved them.

00:35:47.999 --> 00:35:50.304
And he adopted both of them.

00:35:50.999 --> 00:35:52.912
(gentle music)

00:35:58.792 --> 00:36:01.550
I worked with Melissa at
home, but it was 24/7.

00:36:04.709 --> 00:36:06.618
Melissa needed help.

00:36:09.291 --> 00:36:12.180
I read in \"Good
Housekeeping\" about a school.

00:36:14.750 --> 00:36:17.573
We went and visited it
and I liked it a lot,

00:36:18.792 --> 00:36:21.550
and I thought they\'d
be very kind to Missy.

00:36:21.999 --> 00:36:25.215
There was nothing for
autism around at the time.

00:36:31.583 --> 00:36:33.235
(birds chirping)

00:36:37.999 --> 00:36:39.541
(indistinct)

00:36:39.542 --> 00:36:41.256
(Melissa laughs)

00:36:42.083 --> 00:36:42.998
Hello!
- Hi.

00:36:42.999 --> 00:36:45.541
- Hi Bob, how are you?
- Good, how are you?

00:36:45.542 --> 00:36:46.791
- Fine, thanks.

00:36:46.792 --> 00:36:47.874
- Melanie, thanks!

00:36:47.875 --> 00:36:50.569
- You\'re so welcome.
- Hi, cutie pie!

00:36:51.166 --> 00:36:51.874
- Ah!

00:36:51.875 --> 00:36:53.786
Oh, this is heaven.

00:36:54.792 --> 00:36:55.624
This is heaven.

00:36:55.625 --> 00:36:57.499
- [Melanie] Wow, that\'s good.

00:36:57.500 --> 00:36:59.477
♪ I love you a lot ♪

00:37:01.041 --> 00:37:03.374
♪ I love you a lot ♪

00:37:03.375 --> 00:37:05.874
- Come on, let\'s go
look at the house.

00:37:05.875 --> 00:37:07.786
Let\'s show everybody.

00:37:07.792 --> 00:37:10.678
We\'re gonna show
everybody where you live,

00:37:11.250 --> 00:37:13.207
what is like, you know...

00:37:13.208 --> 00:37:16.031
Here are the rooms
of the other boys.

00:37:16.625 --> 00:37:18.602
♪ I love you a lot ♪

00:37:25.125 --> 00:37:27.374
- Bob was my rock.

00:37:27.375 --> 00:37:30.040
There was a great
kindness to the man.

00:37:30.041 --> 00:37:32.864
And I could talk to him,
he was very supportive,

00:37:33.625 --> 00:37:35.536
I mean, I was an artist.

00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:37.999
And he liked that.

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.042
(intense music)

00:37:44.999 --> 00:37:47.954
- Towards the end of the
60\'s, there were 100 artists

00:37:48.166 --> 00:37:51.446
that were called New Realists:
Pearlstein, Bruder, Tillim,

00:37:55.875 --> 00:37:58.047
and Morley and Estes and Audrey.

00:38:01.083 --> 00:38:03.841
Some of them went on
to be far more precise

00:38:03.999 --> 00:38:06.998
and started using the
camera in a different way,

00:38:06.999 --> 00:38:10.149
and a few of them became what
I call the Photorealists.

00:38:11.999 --> 00:38:14.582
- I don\'t ever thought of
myself as a photorealist,

00:38:14.583 --> 00:38:16.998
I just think of
myself as a painter.

00:38:16.999 --> 00:38:19.563
It was when I started
working in advertising.

00:38:20.709 --> 00:38:23.726
I worked at these various
art studios in New York

00:38:24.291 --> 00:38:26.463
and we always used photos.

00:38:27.999 --> 00:38:30.954
Somehow, it\'s a way to
just do the abstract beauty

00:38:32.417 --> 00:38:33.582
of the thing \'cause it can be

00:38:33.583 --> 00:38:36.082
very compositionally
interesting,

00:38:36.083 --> 00:38:38.775
but it\'s not necessarily
beautiful in itself.

00:38:45.125 --> 00:38:48.339
- First I was just drawing
from the photographs,

00:38:50.041 --> 00:38:52.864
using the photography as
reference for painting.

00:38:54.875 --> 00:38:57.047
It was very time-consuming.

00:38:57.166 --> 00:39:00.316
So I had this idea one
night and I called a friend.

00:39:01.166 --> 00:39:03.989
I said, \"Jerry, you got
a projector, come over.\"

00:39:07.417 --> 00:39:10.631
And that\'s when it started,
and that was thrilling.

00:39:12.625 --> 00:39:14.165
That was thrilling.

00:39:14.166 --> 00:39:16.210
(intense music)

00:39:23.208 --> 00:39:24.874
- The first show at the Whitney

00:39:24.875 --> 00:39:27.631
in the \'70s decade was
called \"22 Realists.\"

00:39:30.333 --> 00:39:31.791
(intense music)

00:39:31.792 --> 00:39:33.703
That cemented it.

00:39:33.709 --> 00:39:35.359
(intense music)

00:39:40.917 --> 00:39:43.609
- The Farb Family portrait
is a turning point

00:39:43.834 --> 00:39:44.416
in her career.

00:39:44.417 --> 00:39:47.239
She gets a commission
to make this portrait.

00:39:47.291 --> 00:39:50.702
And one of the family members,
a boy, is holding a camera.

00:39:51.083 --> 00:39:54.165
So, in some ways it exposes
the artifice of everything

00:39:54.166 --> 00:39:56.860
that\'s happening in this
particular portrait.

00:39:57.834 --> 00:39:59.484
(intense music)

00:40:01.542 --> 00:40:04.690
- American photorealism
focuses on the pop dimensions

00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.042
of our reality.

00:40:10.166 --> 00:40:12.332
So it is not just
about the photograph,

00:40:12.333 --> 00:40:15.547
it\'s about photographs as
documents of popular culture.

00:40:20.999 --> 00:40:22.998
- I don\'t think
photorealist works

00:40:22.999 --> 00:40:25.627
that we did look
like photographs.

00:40:25.999 --> 00:40:27.998
You can\'t make an exact copy

00:40:27.999 --> 00:40:30.888
\'cause you\'re a human being
making a mark on a canvas

00:40:32.834 --> 00:40:33.998
and your hand\'s gonna move,

00:40:33.999 --> 00:40:36.416
your eye sees
something different.

00:40:36.417 --> 00:40:38.326
(intense music)

00:40:45.999 --> 00:40:48.627
- I began representing
Audrey Flack in 1972.

00:40:50.333 --> 00:40:52.541
And it was the
beginnings of her years

00:40:52.542 --> 00:40:54.124
as a true photorealist.

00:40:54.125 --> 00:40:56.233
(intense music)

00:40:57.999 --> 00:40:59.998
- What Audrey began
to understand is

00:40:59.999 --> 00:41:02.499
that color is really light.

00:41:05.041 --> 00:41:07.669
The clear, gelatinous
color of slides.

00:41:11.375 --> 00:41:14.133
So to emulate that, she
developed a technique

00:41:15.792 --> 00:41:18.550
of making these slides
and then projecting them

00:41:20.667 --> 00:41:23.425
onto a canvas, and
then spray painting

00:41:25.999 --> 00:41:28.562
so you get this fine
mist of little droplets,

00:41:29.375 --> 00:41:32.133
which is very similar
to the kind of emulsions

00:41:33.333 --> 00:41:35.374
that you see on slides.

00:41:36.875 --> 00:41:39.631
She\'d mask parts out
and then spray it on.

00:41:42.250 --> 00:41:45.530
So she would get these
beautiful luminous works.

00:41:47.667 --> 00:41:48.582
(camera clicks)

00:41:48.583 --> 00:41:50.299
(intense music)

00:41:52.500 --> 00:41:53.624
(camera clicks)

00:41:53.625 --> 00:41:55.341
(intense music)

00:42:05.375 --> 00:42:08.655
- She was touring Europe
and she photographed a lot

00:42:11.834 --> 00:42:14.136
of the sculptures and churches.

00:42:18.083 --> 00:42:21.297
And she did four very, very
strong paintings of cathedrals.

00:42:22.834 --> 00:42:24.484
(intense music)

00:42:28.959 --> 00:42:31.584
She also did the four
Madonna pictures based

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:34.303
on her photographs.

00:42:34.999 --> 00:42:37.562
One is in the Met,
one is in the Whitney.

00:42:41.667 --> 00:42:44.490
- [Audrey] Somebody
sent me a postcard.

00:42:45.999 --> 00:42:47.416
I said, \"Oh, my God.

00:42:47.417 --> 00:42:49.499
\"Bob, I\'ve got to go to Seville.

00:42:49.500 --> 00:42:51.736
\"I have to see this original.\"

00:42:52.291 --> 00:42:55.571
And there\'s a very
modest church, and there,

00:42:56.999 --> 00:43:00.149
like a Las Vegas show girl,
was this queen of heaven.

00:43:02.875 --> 00:43:04.917
It was bedazzling.

00:43:12.959 --> 00:43:13.708
- These were influenced

00:43:13.709 --> 00:43:16.531
by the Spanish Baroque
sculptor Luisa Roldan.

00:43:18.208 --> 00:43:21.227
Audrey was really suffering
because of Melissa

00:43:22.291 --> 00:43:24.624
and the fact that she
couldn\'t help Melissa

00:43:24.625 --> 00:43:26.536
or communicate with her.

00:43:28.083 --> 00:43:31.427
- She was crying for her son,
I was crying for my daughter.

00:43:33.333 --> 00:43:34.998
No doubt.

00:43:34.999 --> 00:43:37.238
Did I know it consciously?

00:43:38.083 --> 00:43:38.791
No.

00:43:38.792 --> 00:43:40.703
Not until years later.

00:43:40.999 --> 00:43:43.563
I knew I just had to
make those paintings.

00:43:47.625 --> 00:43:49.998
- Audrey is very unusual
as a contemporary artist

00:43:49.999 --> 00:43:52.562
to have that passion
for religious images.

00:43:55.999 --> 00:43:58.954
That doesn\'t necessarily
jive with what was in vogue

00:44:02.125 --> 00:44:04.491
in the New York art world.

00:44:06.458 --> 00:44:08.791
- Audrey was in
reality the only woman

00:44:08.792 --> 00:44:10.964
in that movement at the time.

00:44:11.999 --> 00:44:15.215
Blackwell and Parish
motorcycles, Goings\'
pickup trucks,

00:44:18.417 --> 00:44:21.695
all these macho Estes
storefronts and reflections.

00:44:23.583 --> 00:44:25.494
But it began with that.

00:44:26.999 --> 00:44:29.624
- We were all interested
in reflective surfaces.

00:44:29.625 --> 00:44:32.772
It was one of the early
phenomenons of photorealism.

00:44:33.959 --> 00:44:36.976
So when I was setting up my
still life I found objects

00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:39.165
that I liked and what
I found was a bottle

00:44:39.166 --> 00:44:42.380
of Jolie Madame perfume
and some jewelry and beads.

00:44:42.917 --> 00:44:45.608
I wanted to paint glass,
what color was glass?

00:44:46.667 --> 00:44:47.998
So there were a lot of problems

00:44:47.999 --> 00:44:50.627
that were just
artistic problems.

00:44:50.999 --> 00:44:54.083
But I was not interested
in the reflective surface

00:44:54.500 --> 00:44:55.457
of a car fender.

00:44:55.458 --> 00:44:58.021
I\'m just not interested
in a car fender.

00:44:58.166 --> 00:45:00.210
(intense music)

00:45:05.291 --> 00:45:07.582
- [Patricia] Audrey,
like all the rest of us,

00:45:07.583 --> 00:45:10.406
we were involved with
the Women\'s Movement.

00:45:11.625 --> 00:45:14.448
- Marcia Tucker, who was
a curator at the Whitney

00:45:15.834 --> 00:45:18.004
and then she started New Museum,

00:45:18.792 --> 00:45:21.678
she got women to gather in
her loft on Elizabeth Street.

00:45:26.333 --> 00:45:27.916
There were a couple
of women artists,

00:45:27.917 --> 00:45:30.739
but most of them were the wives
of well-known male artists,

00:45:34.083 --> 00:45:35.374
who were saying things
like, \"Oh, well,

00:45:35.375 --> 00:45:37.499
\"when he\'s painting
I leave a tray

00:45:37.500 --> 00:45:40.714
\"of food outside his studio
door not to bother him.\"

00:45:42.208 --> 00:45:45.488
And one of them actually said
she put a pot of geraniums,

00:45:46.917 --> 00:45:49.608
and I\'m sitting there
thinking, \"Oh, my God!

00:45:50.959 --> 00:45:52.998
\"When I get finished work Bob

00:45:52.999 --> 00:45:55.758
\"and Hannah are waiting
there for me to make dinner.\"

00:45:57.625 --> 00:46:00.383
It was hard to be a
woman artist then.

00:46:02.458 --> 00:46:05.216
Having children, I
never mentioned it,

00:46:06.542 --> 00:46:08.844
because you were
thought less of.

00:46:10.333 --> 00:46:13.499
First of all, you were a
woman, you had to be tough,

00:46:13.500 --> 00:46:16.258
you had to drink, you
had to screw around.

00:46:20.999 --> 00:46:23.954
- The condition for women
was really not just unfair

00:46:25.834 --> 00:46:28.656
but nobody even perceived of
the idea of fairness for women.

00:46:32.999 --> 00:46:34.791
Even as late as 1970,

00:46:34.792 --> 00:46:37.374
a woman couldn\'t have
her own credit card,

00:46:37.375 --> 00:46:38.165
or if she was married,

00:46:38.166 --> 00:46:40.860
she couldn\'t have
her own bank account.

00:46:42.959 --> 00:46:44.609
(gentle music)

00:46:49.333 --> 00:46:52.091
It was really in 1970
and \'71 that there began

00:46:53.041 --> 00:46:55.799
to be protests against
the lack of fairness

00:46:57.417 --> 00:46:58.582
in the art community.

00:46:58.583 --> 00:47:01.796
There were artists who were
not only protesting the lack

00:47:02.041 --> 00:47:05.255
of representation of women
but the content of art itself,

00:47:06.500 --> 00:47:08.666
and whether there was content

00:47:08.667 --> 00:47:11.295
that would be
exclusively female.

00:47:17.041 --> 00:47:20.321
There were artists exploring
female sexual experience.

00:47:22.667 --> 00:47:25.620
There were other artists
who were exploring yarn

00:47:25.792 --> 00:47:28.680
and weaving and fabric as a
defiant act of art materials.

00:47:36.375 --> 00:47:37.916
- [Audrey] Early \'70s

00:47:37.917 --> 00:47:40.608
there was the first
very important show

00:47:40.999 --> 00:47:43.627
at the Huntington
Hartford Museum,

00:47:43.792 --> 00:47:46.420
a show called \"Women
Choose Women.\"

00:47:47.208 --> 00:47:49.250
(gentle music)

00:47:54.959 --> 00:47:57.845
And it was a fabulous show
and it got rave reviews

00:47:59.458 --> 00:48:00.998
in the Times.

00:48:00.999 --> 00:48:02.847
(gentle music)

00:48:06.999 --> 00:48:10.083
- Rosalyn Drexler said, \"Jolie
Madame is gorgeous, decadent,

00:48:11.999 --> 00:48:13.249
\"opulent and jeweled.

00:48:13.250 --> 00:48:15.942
\"It is vulgar and risky,
a powerful comment,

00:48:15.999 --> 00:48:19.083
\"an artificiality in the
absurdity of the good life.

00:48:19.375 --> 00:48:22.624
\"This painting is one of the
most beautiful ugly paintings

00:48:22.625 --> 00:48:24.536
\"I\'ve ever seen.\"

00:48:24.999 --> 00:48:27.954
The only reason I can think
she used the word ugly was

00:48:28.583 --> 00:48:30.755
because it was so voluptuous.

00:48:30.999 --> 00:48:34.083
I think that was shocking
in a subversive way.

00:48:37.375 --> 00:48:40.523
All of her work is an
exploration of the painterly

00:48:40.750 --> 00:48:43.702
and the feminine, and it\'s
such an interesting mixture,

00:48:44.125 --> 00:48:46.883
and it takes her outside
of her historical time

00:48:48.333 --> 00:48:50.505
and even outside of feminism.

00:48:54.917 --> 00:48:57.608
- Chanel No. 5 was one
of her famous pictures.

00:48:59.709 --> 00:49:02.249
And I remember
that Hilton Kramer,

00:49:02.250 --> 00:49:05.594
the New York Times reporter,
just thought she was kitschy

00:49:06.999 --> 00:49:09.693
and terrible and called
her the Barbra Streisand

00:49:12.750 --> 00:49:13.749
of painting.

00:49:13.750 --> 00:49:16.508
I said, \"Audrey, he\'s
being anti-Semitic.\"

00:49:17.625 --> 00:49:20.383
Barbara Streisand is a
wonderful popular singer

00:49:20.583 --> 00:49:23.277
that Hilton Kramer felt
very snobbish about.

00:49:24.583 --> 00:49:26.332
- You realize that Hilton
Kramer was just talking

00:49:26.333 --> 00:49:28.791
from prejudice only,
and it\'s social,

00:49:28.792 --> 00:49:30.964
economic and ethnic prejudice.

00:49:31.750 --> 00:49:33.332
(gentle music)

00:49:33.333 --> 00:49:35.961
She paints in a really,
really lavish way.

00:49:37.333 --> 00:49:40.027
She paints in a way
that involves all kinds

00:49:40.083 --> 00:49:42.841
of baroque decoration
and she does the things

00:49:43.999 --> 00:49:46.954
that modernists are
supposed never to do, right?

00:49:47.250 --> 00:49:49.422
And she does them gleefully.

00:49:49.834 --> 00:49:51.484
(gentle music)

00:50:12.709 --> 00:50:14.359
(intense music)

00:50:17.999 --> 00:50:21.149
- I\'ve been doing really big
works, so the last three,

00:50:22.166 --> 00:50:25.380
the Vanitas, took two
years for three paintings.

00:50:30.458 --> 00:50:33.738
Vanitas is a Renaissance
theme, from Ecclesiastes,

00:50:34.625 --> 00:50:37.772
\"Vanity, oh, vanity, all is
vanity saith the preacher.\"

00:50:38.500 --> 00:50:39.998
And it\'s a thing that they used

00:50:39.999 --> 00:50:41.457
in the Renaissance all the time.

00:50:41.458 --> 00:50:44.608
They had very intricate
symbols, having to do with life

00:50:45.291 --> 00:50:48.507
and death, and the vain quality
of worrying about riches,

00:50:51.999 --> 00:50:54.433
worrying about the way we look.

00:50:55.999 --> 00:50:58.499
My art is saying, \"Thank you.\"

00:50:58.999 --> 00:50:59.457
Yeah.

00:50:59.458 --> 00:51:01.696
In fact, I\'m very proud of that.

00:51:02.333 --> 00:51:04.374
So, what we...

00:51:05.125 --> 00:51:07.167
(gentle music)

00:51:10.291 --> 00:51:13.114
So \"Wheel of Fortune\"
there\'s a tarot card.

00:51:14.917 --> 00:51:17.608
You don\'t know what
life deals you,

00:51:17.999 --> 00:51:20.562
what you have to
manage if you can.

00:51:23.834 --> 00:51:26.720
It gave me a very beautiful
daughter who can\'t speak,

00:51:32.583 --> 00:51:33.999
who can\'t write.

00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:36.042
(dramatic music)

00:51:36.875 --> 00:51:39.332
\"Wheel of Fortune\"
there\'s a skull

00:51:39.333 --> 00:51:41.505
and there\'s a mirror next to it.

00:51:41.999 --> 00:51:44.562
And there\'s a reflection
in the mirror,

00:51:44.834 --> 00:51:47.786
but there\'s a rainbow I
introduce in that mirror.

00:51:49.959 --> 00:51:52.715
So there\'s this
transcendence, there\'s hope.

00:51:55.709 --> 00:51:57.423
(dramatic music)

00:52:00.458 --> 00:52:03.216
- [Patricia] Probably
my favorite is Marilyn,

00:52:03.792 --> 00:52:06.484
which is big and
glorious and tragic.

00:52:08.875 --> 00:52:09.624
I would always teach it.

00:52:09.625 --> 00:52:12.772
I would say this is Marilyn
Monroe when she was Norma Jean,

00:52:14.750 --> 00:52:17.573
who can very well
stand in for women

00:52:18.583 --> 00:52:21.406
of the mid-20th century,
and all that that meant,

00:52:22.250 --> 00:52:25.008
all that a woman had
to do to survive,

00:52:25.875 --> 00:52:28.047
play the game, at that time.

00:52:28.999 --> 00:52:30.652
(gentle music)

00:52:37.999 --> 00:52:40.165
- [Samantha] The first
Vanitas painting I ever saw

00:52:40.166 --> 00:52:43.446
in person was World War II and
I was completely overwhelmed

00:52:46.999 --> 00:52:49.043
by the scale of it.

00:52:50.750 --> 00:52:53.639
And the color is just
so vivid, and the way

00:52:54.500 --> 00:52:57.780
that everything glitters,
and I find it to be crushing.

00:53:05.750 --> 00:53:08.444
- I felt I had to do
something for my people.

00:53:09.959 --> 00:53:12.584
Here I was doing
all these Macarenas,

00:53:13.625 --> 00:53:14.666
these weeping Madonnas.

00:53:14.667 --> 00:53:17.490
Everybody thought I was
Catholic, which is fine,

00:53:17.792 --> 00:53:20.094
but somebody had
to do something.

00:53:22.500 --> 00:53:25.648
- [Patricia] She included these
little afternoon tea cakes

00:53:27.667 --> 00:53:30.230
and the Margaret
Bourke-White photograph

00:53:30.667 --> 00:53:33.295
of the concentration
camp victims.

00:53:34.208 --> 00:53:37.617
It shows the fragility of our
society, when people can go

00:53:40.959 --> 00:53:43.586
from living a nice, comfortable
middle class existence

00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:49.888
to then being in a
concentration camp.

00:53:53.959 --> 00:53:56.584
- In a painting, it
stares you in the face.

00:53:57.750 --> 00:54:00.573
And the thing was
to paint the horror

00:54:00.792 --> 00:54:03.809
so that you could look at
it, make it that beautiful.

00:54:06.999 --> 00:54:09.954
- One critic said, \"It\'s a
painting we will not forget.\"

00:54:10.250 --> 00:54:13.464
Whereas another critic
said that she was repulsed

00:54:13.875 --> 00:54:16.631
by Audrey\'s vulgar
literal-mindedness.

00:54:18.709 --> 00:54:21.725
- There are critics who
really understand the work

00:54:24.999 --> 00:54:27.541
and really see the complexities.

00:54:27.542 --> 00:54:30.690
But there are those that
have a lot of trouble with it

00:54:30.999 --> 00:54:34.215
and don\'t understand the
work and misinterpret it,

00:54:36.625 --> 00:54:38.275
misinterpret me.

00:54:40.959 --> 00:54:43.584
And I guess I would like
that to be different.

00:54:45.208 --> 00:54:48.488
I\'ve been happy with the way
the public sees the work.

00:54:49.250 --> 00:54:52.464
People come to the gallery,
they have no problem, you know.

00:54:53.250 --> 00:54:54.416
What I really would like,

00:54:54.417 --> 00:54:56.457
I\'d like it to work
like Shakespeare.

00:54:56.458 --> 00:54:59.152
On the highest level,
for the scholars,

00:55:00.999 --> 00:55:03.758
who can spend a lifetime
studying Shakespeare,

00:55:04.417 --> 00:55:07.541
on a basic level, anybody
can go into the Globe Theater

00:55:07.542 --> 00:55:10.300
and laugh at the
jokes and get it.

00:55:10.333 --> 00:55:13.091
To me this is what
great art should be.

00:55:13.458 --> 00:55:14.082
All great art.

00:55:14.083 --> 00:55:16.514
It is not exclusive of people.

00:55:16.999 --> 00:55:18.958
It\'s for people, you know.

00:55:18.959 --> 00:55:20.582
Who else is it for?

00:55:20.583 --> 00:55:22.040
(gentle music)

00:55:22.041 --> 00:55:25.255
- Photorealism was very popular
and that created a backlash

00:55:26.999 --> 00:55:28.977
within higher culture.

00:55:31.458 --> 00:55:33.708
It seemed just stupid
to an awful lot

00:55:33.709 --> 00:55:35.249
of people in the art elites

00:55:35.250 --> 00:55:38.124
and they thought it was just
mechanical reproduction.

00:55:38.125 --> 00:55:38.999
Who cares?

00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:41.042
Why bother?

00:55:55.375 --> 00:55:57.350
(dramatic music)

00:56:04.583 --> 00:56:06.998
- [Audrey] People were
waiting for my work

00:56:06.999 --> 00:56:10.344
and I went into a real
depression because
I couldn\'t paint.

00:56:14.999 --> 00:56:16.332
- All of the negative
reinforcement

00:56:16.333 --> 00:56:19.027
for so long really
took its toll on her.

00:56:22.500 --> 00:56:25.323
- [Audrey] And I had a
painting on the easel,

00:56:25.458 --> 00:56:27.369
I couldn\'t finish it.

00:56:29.999 --> 00:56:32.822
I locked the door to the
studio and stopped painting.

00:56:36.875 --> 00:56:39.374
And I say I\'m not
a depressed person,

00:56:39.375 --> 00:56:42.133
when I get depressed it
lasts two, three days.

00:56:46.333 --> 00:56:49.027
This one lasted a
long time, two years.

00:56:54.625 --> 00:56:55.374
So that was part of if,

00:56:55.375 --> 00:56:58.133
but I don\'t think that
was the whole thing.

00:56:58.709 --> 00:57:01.725
I had expressed a lot of
what I\'d wanted to express.

00:57:01.834 --> 00:57:04.004
I had really investigated light

00:57:05.083 --> 00:57:07.514
and analysis of color and form.

00:57:08.500 --> 00:57:11.323
I had done what I wanted
to do with photorealism.

00:57:15.166 --> 00:57:17.989
- I remember the day
when Audrey told me

00:57:17.999 --> 00:57:20.249
that she was stopping painting,

00:57:20.250 --> 00:57:23.008
I thought she was
out of her mind.

00:57:24.625 --> 00:57:27.772
- She was making a difficult
move because she was a very,

00:57:28.667 --> 00:57:30.839
very prominent photorealist.

00:57:30.999 --> 00:57:32.999
Her dealer was
very upset with her

00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:35.249
because he just wanted
her to paint and said,

00:57:35.250 --> 00:57:37.457
\"You paint and we\'ll
put them up on the walls

00:57:37.458 --> 00:57:38.666
\"and they\'re gonna go.

00:57:38.667 --> 00:57:39.998
\"You\'re just that good.

00:57:39.999 --> 00:57:42.172
\"Why are you stopping now?\"

00:57:45.041 --> 00:57:47.085
(dramatic music)

00:57:50.583 --> 00:57:52.755
- At one point I saw some clay,

00:57:54.999 --> 00:57:57.499
I picked it up and that was it.

00:57:59.125 --> 00:58:01.883
For the next over
30 years I sculpted.

00:58:06.041 --> 00:58:08.864
I remember, I think
it was first grade,

00:58:10.375 --> 00:58:13.655
that the teacher told us we
were going to make a diorama.

00:58:16.999 --> 00:58:19.332
And you know what it was?

00:58:19.333 --> 00:58:21.505
Do you remember Esther Williams?

00:58:22.250 --> 00:58:24.422
She was in a water ballet.

00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:28.042
It was magical.

00:58:29.333 --> 00:58:32.156
She was an Olympic
swimming champion.

00:58:33.750 --> 00:58:35.998
I thought, \"Wow,
that\'s some woman.\"

00:58:35.999 --> 00:58:38.238
You know. (laughs)

00:58:38.375 --> 00:58:41.719
I made a little cut out with
my father\'s shirt cardboard,

00:58:42.333 --> 00:58:45.483
and my mom\'s blue compact
mirror was the lake.

00:58:49.083 --> 00:58:51.841
And she was a hero, she
was a heroine, for me.

00:58:53.999 --> 00:58:55.782
(cheerful music)

00:59:01.125 --> 00:59:03.491
I wanted to do public sculpture.

00:59:03.917 --> 00:59:06.545
You know, nobody
knew Bartolli\'s name,

00:59:07.208 --> 00:59:09.966
the man that did The
Statue of Liberty,

00:59:10.166 --> 00:59:11.999
but it\'s a great symbol.

00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:14.822
So I wanted to do
public art like that.

00:59:14.999 --> 00:59:18.083
It was also my statement,
from me, about the art world.

00:59:19.999 --> 00:59:22.562
The art world can
be very elitist.

00:59:23.792 --> 00:59:25.964
I wanted release from that.

00:59:28.250 --> 00:59:31.530
My main mission was to put
statues of women out there.

00:59:33.542 --> 00:59:36.819
For the most part all over the
country, all over the world,

00:59:37.208 --> 00:59:40.031
you get women looking up
adoringly at a general.

00:59:43.375 --> 00:59:45.677
And mainly you get presidents,

00:59:45.999 --> 00:59:48.627
Teddy Roosevelt leading
the charge in front

00:59:48.999 --> 00:59:51.499
of the Museum of
Natural History.

00:59:51.750 --> 00:59:54.444
I\'ve put strong,
sleek muscled women,

00:59:57.834 --> 01:00:00.851
who women can look up to,
who men can look up to.

01:00:01.583 --> 01:00:03.235
(gentle music)

01:00:19.834 --> 01:00:21.457
- Audrey Flack
got the commission

01:00:21.458 --> 01:00:24.608
to do the Rock Hill Goddess
which became Civitas.

01:00:25.999 --> 01:00:29.018
When you got off the interstate
you aim into Rock Hill

01:00:30.125 --> 01:00:31.290
and it wasn\'t doing well.

01:00:31.291 --> 01:00:34.050
And somebody said,
\"We need a symbol.\"

01:00:35.125 --> 01:00:36.040
- [Audrey] Wait a minute,

01:00:36.041 --> 01:00:38.864
this is Main Street?
- This is Main Street.

01:00:39.750 --> 01:00:40.582
- [Audrey] Oh, wow,

01:00:40.583 --> 01:00:43.165
it\'s a real little town.
- So there\'s a lot going

01:00:43.166 --> 01:00:44.833
on here now.

01:00:44.834 --> 01:00:46.998
- [Audrey] So Rock
Hill is on its feet.

01:00:46.999 --> 01:00:49.998
- Hello, nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.

01:00:49.999 --> 01:00:50.791
- Stand by.

01:00:50.792 --> 01:00:53.615
Here we go, in five,
four, three, two, one.

01:00:54.208 --> 01:00:55.165
- Welcome to the City Minute.

01:00:55.166 --> 01:00:57.989
I\'m Betty Jo Rhea, and
today I\'m so pleased

01:00:57.999 --> 01:01:01.215
to welcome Audrey Flack,
our world renowned artist

01:01:02.792 --> 01:01:05.420
who did our sculptures
at our gateway.

01:01:05.667 --> 01:01:08.425
- I haven\'t seen
them in 25 years.

01:01:09.166 --> 01:01:10.998
I mean, now you\'ve
got to laugh at it,

01:01:10.999 --> 01:01:11.998
right?
- Uh-huh.

01:01:11.999 --> 01:01:14.888
- Where the material
flowed across the breast,

01:01:15.625 --> 01:01:16.998
I had nipples.

01:01:16.999 --> 01:01:19.562
And there was some
consternation.

01:01:21.166 --> 01:01:21.998
(Betty laughs)

01:01:21.999 --> 01:01:24.562
They asked me to do
something about it.

01:01:24.583 --> 01:01:27.277
And so we had to file
down the nipples.

01:01:30.875 --> 01:01:31.998
Oh, look at her!

01:01:31.999 --> 01:01:34.238
- [Betty] Aren\'t they gorgeous?

01:01:34.709 --> 01:01:36.879
We even made Glamour Magazine!

01:01:40.999 --> 01:01:42.912
(traffic humming)

01:01:43.250 --> 01:01:45.358
(gentle music)

01:01:50.667 --> 01:01:52.998
- Oh, I remember
getting an envelope

01:01:52.999 --> 01:01:55.172
and it had a blue crown.

01:01:55.999 --> 01:01:58.758
It had a letter asking
me to submit work.

01:02:00.542 --> 01:02:03.819
They wanted a statue of a
woman coming right at a time

01:02:04.999 --> 01:02:07.304
when I wanna put
women out there,

01:02:07.875 --> 01:02:10.631
and you were asked
to make a maquette.

01:02:12.291 --> 01:02:12.958
I won.

01:02:12.959 --> 01:02:15.781
- Queen Catherine of Braganza
was a Portuguese princess

01:02:16.999 --> 01:02:19.562
who married Charles II,
the King of England.

01:02:21.125 --> 01:02:23.883
The site of the Queen
Catherine statue was

01:02:24.999 --> 01:02:27.562
on the Queens side
of the East River

01:02:27.834 --> 01:02:30.004
directly facing the UN building.

01:02:30.458 --> 01:02:33.866
Supposedly Queens was named
in honor of Queen Catherine.

01:02:36.583 --> 01:02:39.624
The Portuguese community
seemed to be very interested

01:02:39.625 --> 01:02:42.448
in producing this
gift to New York.

01:02:44.083 --> 01:02:46.125
(gentle music)

01:02:46.999 --> 01:02:48.124
- The statue was
gonna be 35 feet tall.

01:02:48.125 --> 01:02:51.469
Now, that\'s tiny compared
to the Statue of Liberty,

01:02:51.834 --> 01:02:54.070
which it was often compared to.

01:02:54.083 --> 01:02:56.514
But it\'s still pretty big.

01:03:00.709 --> 01:03:02.618
(people chattering)

01:03:05.375 --> 01:03:07.541
- I was bothered as
an urban historian

01:03:07.542 --> 01:03:10.756
by both the process that
had approved this placement

01:03:11.709 --> 01:03:14.336
of a private monument
in a public park

01:03:15.625 --> 01:03:18.772
and the symbolism of what
Queen Catherine represented.

01:03:24.999 --> 01:03:28.149
Once that op-ed appeared,
opposition seemed to come out.

01:03:30.709 --> 01:03:33.725
- We learned about it, and
learned about Catherine

01:03:33.959 --> 01:03:36.584
of Braganza, that\'s when
we began to protest.

01:03:37.125 --> 01:03:40.078
The community, to my
knowledge, was never consulted.

01:03:42.500 --> 01:03:44.791
- I don\'t wanna start
a war in my borough

01:03:44.792 --> 01:03:46.964
between two ethnic groups.

01:03:47.208 --> 01:03:49.250
(train rumbling)

01:03:53.500 --> 01:03:55.280
(dramatic music)

01:03:57.999 --> 01:04:01.018
- The parts that were cast
got melted down for scrap.

01:04:07.709 --> 01:04:09.879
- 10 years of work for Audrey.

01:04:09.999 --> 01:04:13.215
On the other hand I do feel
like the statue has a life.

01:04:13.458 --> 01:04:15.916
It will go down in the
annals of public art

01:04:15.917 --> 01:04:18.608
as a very notable
cautionary tale.

01:04:23.999 --> 01:04:26.172
(traffic humming)

01:04:34.709 --> 01:04:36.618
(people chattering)

01:04:42.208 --> 01:04:44.836
- So, look, we\'re gonna
flip through David

01:04:45.500 --> 01:04:48.648
and you\'re gonna see how
basically frontal he is also.

01:04:50.333 --> 01:04:52.374
Look at this figure.

01:04:54.542 --> 01:04:57.300
What you get is this
very stiff thing.

01:04:58.917 --> 01:05:01.608
Then you get Géricault,
who does action figures,

01:05:04.917 --> 01:05:07.805
tremendous movement, he\'s
ready to try and they hate him.

01:05:08.750 --> 01:05:10.457
They try to throw him out.

01:05:10.458 --> 01:05:11.998
- Oh, that\'s so beautiful.

01:05:11.999 --> 01:05:12.958
(Audrey laughs)

01:05:12.959 --> 01:05:13.874
- These guys are interesting too

01:05:13.875 --> 01:05:16.763
because they\'re still dealing
with frontal single figures.

01:05:19.999 --> 01:05:22.888
They\'ve got a kind
of crazy freedom.

01:05:23.041 --> 01:05:25.538
They begin tilting, words,

01:05:27.291 --> 01:05:30.636
floating, flying, it\'s all
with your linear shading.

01:05:33.125 --> 01:05:33.998
Enough said.

01:05:33.999 --> 01:05:36.172
We\'re gonna work.

01:05:37.291 --> 01:05:39.335
Let\'s go.

01:05:42.875 --> 01:05:45.047
I\'m really hot about drawing.

01:05:46.999 --> 01:05:49.433
You know, drawing is the bones.

01:05:50.291 --> 01:05:51.999
You\'ve got a skeleton.

01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:55.473
Without those bones, it\'s like
a glove without a hand in it.

01:05:59.999 --> 01:06:01.874
- [Assistant] And change.

01:06:01.875 --> 01:06:03.249
- Okay, hold it.

01:06:03.250 --> 01:06:04.374
Keep your pose.

01:06:04.375 --> 01:06:07.133
Shorthand for the
rib cage, right?

01:06:07.667 --> 01:06:10.359
Look at that, there\'s
his two floaters.

01:06:11.125 --> 01:06:13.428
There\'s that arc.

01:06:13.999 --> 01:06:15.652
Let\'s go.

01:06:18.999 --> 01:06:21.954
Okay, Connie, can you both
just stand there for a minute?

01:06:22.291 --> 01:06:25.636
So we\'re gonna look at the
female and the male body?

01:06:27.125 --> 01:06:29.491
Oh, look at this, Adam and Eve.

01:06:31.417 --> 01:06:32.624
Interesting.

01:06:32.625 --> 01:06:34.797
Oh, he\'s offering her the apple.

01:06:34.999 --> 01:06:37.108
(students laughing)

01:06:37.625 --> 01:06:38.791
They\'re gonna keep the pose.

01:06:38.792 --> 01:06:39.958
You\'re not drawing now.

01:06:39.959 --> 01:06:42.584
I want you to see them
from different angles.

01:06:46.667 --> 01:06:49.295
We are down to the
basics of what our life

01:06:50.999 --> 01:06:52.977
as artists is about.

01:06:53.041 --> 01:06:56.321
And it is about the beauty
of these two people.

01:06:59.291 --> 01:07:01.708
There\'s something that takes
us out of this profane world

01:07:01.709 --> 01:07:04.401
that we live in into
a sublime place.

01:07:05.959 --> 01:07:08.781
And to me, looking at that
is absolutely sublime.

01:07:13.458 --> 01:07:15.303
Okay, thank you.

01:07:15.500 --> 01:07:17.280
Let\'s go.

01:07:18.917 --> 01:07:20.567
(wind howling)

01:07:31.999 --> 01:07:33.652
Why, Deborah?

01:07:33.875 --> 01:07:36.178
Why did I pick it up now?

01:07:37.999 --> 01:07:41.083
This canvas has been in my
studio for 36 years unpainted.

01:07:46.834 --> 01:07:49.654
The canvas was leaning
against the back wall

01:07:50.291 --> 01:07:52.985
when I stopped painting
about that time.

01:07:55.333 --> 01:07:56.582
So you stand before
it and you say,

01:07:56.583 --> 01:07:59.791
\"Oh, my God, I\'m gonna run
it, what am I gonna do?\"

01:07:59.792 --> 01:08:02.678
And I have to say to
myself, \"Take the plunge.\"

01:08:02.999 --> 01:08:05.304
All artists go through that.

01:08:07.750 --> 01:08:09.400
(blues music)

01:08:54.542 --> 01:08:57.756
There\'s a spot that the
gold leaf did not adhere to.

01:09:03.999 --> 01:09:06.563
Either I didn\'t
put the glue there.

01:09:08.999 --> 01:09:11.562
Maybe there wasn\'t
enough glue there.

01:09:11.583 --> 01:09:14.342
And I\'ve been looking
at that spot for months.

01:09:15.166 --> 01:09:16.624
You know, there are
other little spots.

01:09:16.625 --> 01:09:19.165
There\'s like a little spot
there where you see the canvas.

01:09:19.166 --> 01:09:22.511
But do you know the Leonard
Cohen song \"Ring the Bells?\"

01:09:26.291 --> 01:09:28.165
The bells that ring.

01:09:28.166 --> 01:09:30.468
Forget your perfect offering.

01:09:31.417 --> 01:09:34.239
There is a crack, a
crack in everything.

01:09:36.250 --> 01:09:38.422
That\'s how the light gets in.

01:09:38.500 --> 01:09:40.672
That\'s how the light gets in.

01:09:41.125 --> 01:09:43.491
And you know, this is Fiat Lux.

01:09:44.750 --> 01:09:46.624
Let there be light.

01:09:46.625 --> 01:09:48.040
So she\'s shooting out light,

01:09:48.041 --> 01:09:50.735
and yet there\'s a
little crack of light.

01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:57.042
(birds chirping)

01:09:57.999 --> 01:10:00.433
(string instruments strumming)

01:10:08.291 --> 01:10:09.541
That E\'s a little sharp.

01:10:09.542 --> 01:10:11.712
(string instruments strumming)

01:10:15.291 --> 01:10:16.374
- It\'s always there with me.

01:10:16.375 --> 01:10:18.350
(bluegrass music)

01:10:24.875 --> 01:10:25.290
Ready?

01:10:25.291 --> 01:10:27.985
Play a couple of
notes and I\'ll play.

01:10:27.999 --> 01:10:29.977
(bluegrass music)

01:10:44.999 --> 01:10:47.954
♪ God gave Noah the rainbow
sign, don\'t you see? ♪

01:10:49.500 --> 01:10:50.332
♪ Don\'t you see? ♪

01:10:50.333 --> 01:10:53.541
♪ God gave Noah the rainbow
sign, don\'t you see? ♪

01:10:53.542 --> 01:10:55.778
- Push that down a little bit.

01:10:55.999 --> 01:10:56.833
Hit it with this.

01:10:56.834 --> 01:10:57.998
♪ God gave Noah
the rainbow sign ♪

01:10:57.999 --> 01:10:59.833
♪ No more water but
the fire next time ♪

01:10:59.834 --> 01:11:02.654
♪ Hide me, oh, Rock
of Ages cleft for me ♪

01:11:03.999 --> 01:11:05.912
(bluegrass music)

01:11:14.250 --> 01:11:16.998
- [Audrey] I\'ve been
thinking of it for hours.

01:11:16.999 --> 01:11:18.912
(bluegrass music)

01:11:24.166 --> 01:11:27.055
♪ Poor old Lazarus, poor
as I, don\'t you see? ♪

01:11:28.999 --> 01:11:31.627
♪ Poor old Lazarus, poor
as I, don\'t you see? ♪

01:11:35.041 --> 01:11:36.998
♪ Poor old Lazarus, poor as I ♪

01:11:36.999 --> 01:11:39.624
♪ When he died he
had a home on high ♪

01:11:39.625 --> 01:11:42.448
♪ Hide me, oh, Rock
of Ages cleft for me ♪

01:11:45.792 --> 01:11:48.678
- No, no, no, no, I want
it jammed on the wall.

01:11:49.166 --> 01:11:51.468
(bluegrass music)

01:11:58.208 --> 01:11:59.958
Honey, what did you do?

01:11:59.959 --> 01:12:01.870
(bluegrass music)

01:12:10.959 --> 01:12:13.715
♪ Poor old Noah drank a
little wine, don\'t you see? ♪

01:12:15.625 --> 01:12:18.772
♪ Poor old Noah drank a
little wine, don\'t you see? ♪

01:12:21.999 --> 01:12:23.708
♪ Poor old Noah
drank a little wine ♪

01:12:23.709 --> 01:12:26.207
♪ He got higher than
a Georgia vine ♪

01:12:26.208 --> 01:12:29.031
♪ Hide me, oh, Rock
of Ages cleft for me ♪

01:12:30.999 --> 01:12:33.108
(bluegrass music)

01:12:53.999 --> 01:12:56.888
♪ Poor old Noah drank a
little wine, don\'t you see? ♪

01:12:58.917 --> 01:13:01.673
♪ Poor old Noah drank a
little wine, don\'t you see? ♪

01:13:05.041 --> 01:13:06.998
♪ Poor old Noah
drank a little wine ♪

01:13:06.999 --> 01:13:09.562
♪ He got higher than
a Georgia vine ♪

01:13:09.583 --> 01:13:12.406
♪ Hide me, oh, Rock
of Ages cleft for me ♪

01:13:14.959 --> 01:13:16.870
(bluegrass music)

01:13:59.375 --> 01:14:02.523
♪ Poor old Noah drank a
little wine, don\'t you see? ♪

01:14:03.999 --> 01:14:07.018
♪ Poor old Noah drank a
little wine, don\'t you see? ♪

01:14:10.291 --> 01:14:11.582
♪ Poor old Noah
drank a little wine ♪

01:14:11.583 --> 01:14:13.998
♪ He got higher than
a Georgia vine ♪

01:14:13.999 --> 01:14:16.563
♪ Hide me, oh, Rock
of Ages cleft for me ♪

01:14:18.999 --> 01:14:21.043
(bluegrass music)