00:00:35.360 --> 00:00:37.360
(SIREN WAILS DISTANTLY)

00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.440
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

00:00:56.720 --> 00:00:59.520
Breaking news out of the city -
police have confirmed reports

00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:01.320
that WikiLeaks founder
Julian Assange

00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:02.360
has been arrested.

00:01:02.360 --> 00:01:05.720
One of the most notorious and
controversial figures in the world

00:01:05.720 --> 00:01:07.080
is finally in custody.

00:01:07.080 --> 00:01:11.400
I can't even remember how
I feel about Julian Assange.

00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:16.800
WikiLeaks! I love WikiLeaks.

00:01:16.800 --> 00:01:19.360
WOMAN: 10 years ago,
Assange shot to fame

00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:22.080
when WikiLeaks began publishing
secret documents

00:01:22.080 --> 00:01:26.160
provided by former US intelligence
analyst Chelsea Manning.

00:01:26.160 --> 00:01:29.320
MAN: WikiLeaks first caught
the attention of most Americans

00:01:29.320 --> 00:01:31.080
when it released this video.

00:01:31.080 --> 00:01:34.440
- At least a dozen people were
killed in the attack...(GUNFIRE)

00:01:34.440 --> 00:01:36.360
...some of them
innocent civilians.

00:01:39.160 --> 00:01:42.080
...that the Metropolitan Police
have arrested Julian Assange.

00:01:42.080 --> 00:01:44.920
MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:46.400
Arrested for breach of bail

00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:48.920
after nearly seven years
in the Ecuadorian Embassy.

00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:50.640
He has also been arrested

00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:52.320
in relation to
an extradition request

00:01:52.320 --> 00:01:54.480
from the United States
authorities.

00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:56.960
The Obama administration couldn't
figure out how to charge him

00:01:56.960 --> 00:01:59.320
without him being able to get
journalistic protection.

00:01:59.320 --> 00:02:00.320
MAN: Right.

00:02:00.320 --> 00:02:01.600
I think it's pretty amazing,

00:02:01.600 --> 00:02:04.000
and the Trump administration
should be, like, "Look at us.

00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:05.320
"We figured it out."

00:02:05.320 --> 00:02:08.200
REPORTER: Now, after eight
years of cat-and-mouse,

00:02:08.200 --> 00:02:10.320
Julian Assange
is on the precipice

00:02:10.320 --> 00:02:13.160
of extradition
to the United States.

00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:18.920
You've said that
you're proud of your son.

00:02:18.920 --> 00:02:20.720
You've now, if you like,
broken cover,

00:02:20.720 --> 00:02:22.480
because we didn't really
know about you

00:02:22.480 --> 00:02:24.080
until this morning, actually.

00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:27.600
Why have you decided that now
is the time to speak up for him

00:02:27.600 --> 00:02:31.680
and to call for
his repatriation to Australia?

00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:35.480
Well, he...Julian can
no longer speak for himself,

00:02:35.480 --> 00:02:41.600
and so...so we...his family
and friends must speak for him.

00:03:37.160 --> 00:03:39.640
INTERVIEWER: Can we talk about the
day Julian asked you to help?

00:03:39.640 --> 00:03:41.360
Can you talk me through that?

00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:43.040
I don't really remember.

00:03:43.040 --> 00:03:46.040
What I remember is
that he got arrested,

00:03:46.040 --> 00:03:49.640
and so I came here and...

00:03:49.640 --> 00:03:53.400
...went and saw him in the...

00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:56.680
...went and saw Julian
in the jail.

00:03:56.680 --> 00:03:59.560
Anyway, he was
in a very bad way.

00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:02.560
OK. Yeah. Just...just tell me,
how was Julian Assange?

00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:06.400
Oh, well, he's lost
about 10 kilos' weight,

00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:12.280
and he's psychologically under
a lot of stress and pressure.

00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:15.000
The visiting hours
are very, very precious.

00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.280
(SNIFFS)
Sorry. I'm a bit upset.

00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:23.000
Yes. This is my first visit.
Yes.

00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:26.360
Yes. Yes. That...

00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:27.880
MAN: How was that...?

00:04:27.880 --> 00:04:30.320
It's pretty moving,
as you would expect.

00:04:30.320 --> 00:04:32.720
(CAMERA CLICKS)
- REPORTER: OK. Thanks.

00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:36.360
Pretty tough.
For him, you know?

00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:37.840
(CAMERA CLICKS)

00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:40.600
- I guess that'll do.
- REPORTER: Thank you.

00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:43.000
- Thank you.
- JOURNALISTS: Thank you.

00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:45.240
So I said,
"I'll...I'll be back."

00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:48.920
"I won't stop coming
until you can come home."

00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:52.960
And I...I don't
much like the media, but...

00:04:52.960 --> 00:04:56.000
...it seems as though
there was an avenue

00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:59.080
where I could contribute.

00:04:59.080 --> 00:05:01.600
INTERVIEWER: Can we talk about
your contact with Julian

00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:03.200
through his childhood?

00:05:03.200 --> 00:05:04.960
Well, I don't think it's a...

00:05:04.960 --> 00:05:07.360
...you know, I don't think
it'll help, will it?

00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:09.240
INTERVIEWER: Well,
just understanding

00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:11.480
that you didn't connect
for a long time.

00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:13.240
Yeah. So why do we...

00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:15.840
I mean, frankly, why do we
have to go over that again?

00:05:15.840 --> 00:05:17.680
It's a serious question.

00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:20.160
Why do I have to
go over the fact

00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:24.720
that I may not feel comfortable
with your question?

00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:25.840
INTERVIEWER: Mmm.

00:05:25.840 --> 00:05:29.320
- Well, it's part of the story.
- It ISN'T part of the story.

00:05:29.320 --> 00:05:32.560
The story is that...you know,

00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:36.160
I am attempting,
in my own humble...

00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:38.320
I don't like that word.

00:05:38.320 --> 00:05:42.480
...modest way
to get Julian out of the shit.

00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:44.600
What does it involve?

00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:46.600
Traipsing around Europe,

00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:49.800
building up
coalitions of friendship.

00:06:03.400 --> 00:06:05.240
And I have the feeling that

00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:08.560
the desire for
a narrative about Julian

00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:12.120
is stronger than the desire

00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:17.080
to understand the person
that you are speaking to,

00:06:17.080 --> 00:06:19.360
and what
you're indirectly doing

00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:21.480
is making sense of life

00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:26.360
by imposing on life,
as it flows past, a narrative,

00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:28.960
because that's what
you want to see -

00:06:28.960 --> 00:06:32.240
a beginning, a middle
and an end and a conclusion -

00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:35.920
which is a convenient...
or what I would call

00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:38.520
Hollywood way of
looking at life.

00:06:38.520 --> 00:06:41.960
But, you know, life's not
really like that at all.

00:06:41.960 --> 00:06:44.880
So, what you can do
with these things...

00:06:46.200 --> 00:06:50.520
is that you can give it
a destiny.

00:06:50.520 --> 00:06:54.440
I would prefer
the difficulty of destiny

00:06:54.440 --> 00:06:58.480
over the ease of narrative.

00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:07.120
It's good to see you. Yeah.

00:07:22.960 --> 00:07:26.360
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:29.600
JOHN SHIPTON:
Julian is suffering from

00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:32.720
years of psychological torture,

00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:37.120
increasing to the extent
of damaging him.

00:07:41.640 --> 00:07:44.000
Thank you very much,
ladies and gentlemen.

00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:48.760
Julian, of course, is not well.
Um...

00:07:48.760 --> 00:07:51.800
(WOMAN SPEAKS GERMAN)

00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:15.160
NILS MELZER: So I'm an
independent human rights expert

00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:18.560
who's appointed directly
by the United Nations.

00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:20.880
Well, Julian Assange's case,

00:08:20.880 --> 00:08:23.800
it does involve my mandate
on several levels,

00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:25.720
although I...

00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:28.120
I at first didn't think so,
and...

00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:32.520
...that's the deceptive nature
of psychological torture.

00:08:32.520 --> 00:08:35.600
That's the purpose
of psychological torture.

00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:38.440
It wants to torture people
without the environment realising

00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:40.240
someone is being tortured.

00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:42.240
Doesn't want to leave traces.

00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:45.000
Now, you DO leave traces,
but it's in the mind.

00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.640
Torture is used
to break people,

00:08:47.640 --> 00:08:51.520
very often to make them say
what you want them to say

00:08:51.520 --> 00:08:54.160
or not to say anything.

00:08:55.640 --> 00:08:57.640
But in Julian's case,

00:08:57.640 --> 00:09:00.040
it's about
intimidating everybody else.

00:09:05.520 --> 00:09:08.160
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.

00:09:08.160 --> 00:09:09.680
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)

00:09:16.280 --> 00:09:18.560
JOHN SHIPTON:
I started this thing...

00:09:18.560 --> 00:09:21.920
Oh, what was it? '73, I think.

00:09:24.520 --> 00:09:25.560
Oh, oh, thank you.

00:09:25.560 --> 00:09:27.440
- And if I had...
- And, really, tell him...

00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:29.560
...you know, had that
in my nature,

00:09:29.560 --> 00:09:31.680
I would have
been there already.

00:09:31.680 --> 00:09:35.920
But I wasn't. You know,
I liked building things.

00:09:35.920 --> 00:09:39.560
Particularly liked
building homes.

00:09:39.560 --> 00:09:42.080
'Cause a...a home, you know,

00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:46.000
is a stage
for the theatre of life.

00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:50.920
And it gathers the inhabitants
under its roof

00:09:50.920 --> 00:09:54.880
like a hen gathers its chicks.

00:09:54.880 --> 00:09:56.480
So I liked that.

00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:01.160
That was what I liked doing,
making those things.

00:10:01.160 --> 00:10:04.080
HOST: So, please have a seat.
JOHN SHIPTON: Ah.

00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:05.480
Thank you. Alright.

00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:07.480
Just have to put this
a little bit closer.

00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:08.760
- Oh.
- That's OK for you?

00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:10.080
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:21.320
Well, I last saw Julian
at three years of age,

00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:24.520
and then we re-met
when he was in his 20s,

00:10:24.520 --> 00:10:30.280
so, as a child, I can
only go by what his mum says.

00:10:30.280 --> 00:10:35.640
I think his nickname
was 'Wizard'

00:10:35.640 --> 00:10:38.200
and...and shortened to 'Wizzy',

00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:43.280
because he was precocious
and inventive and... Yeah.

00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:51.600
- Is that correct?
- Yeah. (LAUGHS) Yes. Yeah.

00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:55.120
He...called in one day,

00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:59.840
and we made tea
and avocado toast,

00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:05.920
and we talked about secrecy,
its benefits and its failures.

00:11:05.920 --> 00:11:09.400
And he said that the...

00:11:09.400 --> 00:11:13.360
...quality of a society

00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:18.960
is founded upon the information
that it can get access to

00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:23.520
in order to build something
that is more sturdy

00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:26.920
and has deeper knowledge
of itself

00:11:26.920 --> 00:11:33.320
and consequently can move
to a higher plane of existence.

00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:38.080
They are...
that is his but paraphrased,

00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:42.320
because the conversations
extended over days, you know?

00:11:52.800 --> 00:11:54.120
HOST: Ready to go live
on the fly

00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:57.640
here on 99.5 FM
in New York City.

00:11:57.640 --> 00:12:01.600
Today, I'm talking with
Dr Niraj Lal,

00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.880
about Julian Assange.

00:12:03.880 --> 00:12:10.600
So, when did you first meet
Julian Assange, Dr Niraj?

00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:13.080
First met Julian in 2002,

00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:16.800
in my first physics lecture
at the University of Melbourne.

00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:20.720
And the question of whether
Australia would go to war in Iraq

00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:22.680
was a topic of discussion.

00:12:23.760 --> 00:12:27.160
Julian was very much
a passionate advocate

00:12:27.160 --> 00:12:29.040
for fairness, for justice.

00:12:29.040 --> 00:12:31.560
And millions of citizens
were marching,

00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:35.320
to see if we could
stop this war taking place,

00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:37.280
that I think people of the time

00:12:37.280 --> 00:12:41.560
knew that it wasn't actually about the
safety of the Iraqi citizens themselves

00:12:41.560 --> 00:12:43.440
or the safety of other nations
around the world.

00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:45.560
And we saw this, and we
marched and we protested.

00:12:51.760 --> 00:12:53.240
And nothing happened.

00:12:54.280 --> 00:12:56.360
It didn't lead to anything.
We still went to war.

00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:05.440
And Julian asked the question,
"Well..."

00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:07.720
"if marching civilians
can't do it,

00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:10.560
"if letters to our politicians
don't do it, if..."

00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:12.200
"well, what WILL change?

00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:15.120
"What WILL enable us to prevent
going to an illegal war?"

00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.000
and Julian's idea,
with WikiLeaks

00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:21.000
was that the goal is justice
and the method is transparency,

00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:25.080
to show the public
what's really going on.

00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:29.000
This movement is not about
the destruction of law.

00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:32.400
It is about
the construction of law!

00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:52.680
REPORTER: In July 2010,
WikiLeaks and its collaborators

00:13:52.680 --> 00:13:55.120
went public
with a massive leak.

00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:57.440
The Afghan War logs
came from a trove

00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:00.880
of 90,000 incident
and intelligence reports.

00:14:00.880 --> 00:14:03.040
REPORTER: WikiLeaks
released this video.

00:14:03.040 --> 00:14:06.560
It shows a US Apache
helicopter crew in Iraq

00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:08.600
opening fire on a group of men.

00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:10.880
Some of them
were journalists from Reuters.

00:14:10.880 --> 00:14:13.920
(GUNFIRE)
- SOLDIER: Come on. Fire.

00:14:13.920 --> 00:14:15.680
Keep shooting.

00:14:15.680 --> 00:14:20.600
We have clear evidence for war
crimes having been committed.

00:14:42.680 --> 00:14:45.400
REPORTER: ..has changed
dramatically since April,

00:14:45.400 --> 00:14:47.200
when he was dragged by police

00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.760
from the Ecuadorian Embassy
in London.

00:14:49.760 --> 00:14:53.440
REPORTER: A thin and
confused-looking Julian Assange

00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:55.040
has been seen
for the first time

00:14:55.040 --> 00:14:56.960
since his April arrest,

00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:58.360
the WikiLeaks founder

00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:00.120
struggling to remember
his birthday

00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:04.480
as he was told his extradition
hearing WILL go ahead.

00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:06.560
REPORTER: Fronting
Westminster Magistrates' Court

00:15:06.560 --> 00:15:09.120
in a navy suit
and clean-shaven,

00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:11.960
the WikiLeaks founder
was noticeably thinner,

00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:14.080
struggling
to remember his birthdate,

00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.360
saying,
"I can't think properly."

00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:19.480
Assange will remain behind bars
until that full
extradition hearing,

00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.320
which has been set down
for the end of February.

00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:06.000
ANNOUNCER: We will shortly
be arriving at Farringdon.

00:16:08.400 --> 00:16:09.880
STELLA MORIS: I met Julian

00:16:09.880 --> 00:16:12.800
because I had responded to

00:16:12.800 --> 00:16:15.120
an email from
Jennifer Robinson.

00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.480
The legal defence team
needed more people.

00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.320
The case was developing
very quickly,

00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:25.480
and I was brought on to
work on the US investigation.

00:16:28.920 --> 00:16:31.480
In the beginning
of Julian being in prison,

00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.680
he could only call
a few times a week,

00:16:34.680 --> 00:16:36.080
when he was in...

00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.960
...the unit for
desperately suicidal

00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.160
or terminally ill people,

00:16:43.160 --> 00:16:45.800
and most of the time,
they're in isolation.

00:16:45.800 --> 00:16:49.280
So that's where Julian was
for about six months.

00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:51.880
I mean, Julian's had a...

00:16:51.880 --> 00:16:54.080
...a very...

00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.200
...difficult time in the prison.

00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:59.640
(CHILD CHATTERS)

00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:06.240
JOHN SHIPTON:
Yes, but that's not very nice.

00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:08.520
You have the nice one,
the big one...

00:17:08.520 --> 00:17:10.840
(CONTINUES INDISTINCTLY)

00:17:12.600 --> 00:17:15.200
(CHILD SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)

00:17:20.280 --> 00:17:21.680
WOMAN: Stella...

00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:24.160
(WOMAN SPEAKS SWEDISH)

00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:33.400
- Did you rest well?
- I did.

00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:34.480
- Oh.
- Yourself?

00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.880
Yes, I did. I feel...
I feel human.

00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:40.360
- (INDISTINCT)
- (CHUCKLES)

00:17:40.360 --> 00:17:42.000
- Dad?
- Yeah?

00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.520
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)

00:17:57.400 --> 00:17:59.640
I took off my shoes already.

00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:03.280
JOHN SHIPTON: Severine,
she asked when...when...

00:18:03.280 --> 00:18:06.360
are we gonna
get Julian out of jail, yeah.

00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:09.600
Severine thinks
it's an immediacy.

00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:11.760
We're just coming to
pick him up, you know?

00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:13.400
Get in the cab and...

00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:17.240
She doesn't really see that
we might end up in America

00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:19.520
fighting this battle.

00:18:23.120 --> 00:18:27.440
JOHN SHIPTON: You know,
I find myself very different,

00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:32.520
in that I have cultivated
within myself a love of family,

00:18:32.520 --> 00:18:36.800
because when I left school,

00:18:36.800 --> 00:18:39.840
or my father died,
after he died,

00:18:39.840 --> 00:18:42.280
I got all
the family photographs -

00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:44.520
oh, there was a fucking heap,
I tell you -

00:18:44.520 --> 00:18:46.320
and I burnt them.

00:18:46.320 --> 00:18:49.560
I wasn't going back there,
not for quids.

00:18:49.560 --> 00:18:51.520
INTERVIEWER:
What...you know...?

00:18:51.520 --> 00:18:53.360
What was going on
when you did that?

00:18:53.360 --> 00:18:57.240
Oh, who knows? You know?
Humans are complex.

00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:01.920
Um... And...so I built...

00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:08.840
...copying from
books and plays and...

00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:12.680
...mentors...

00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:16.120
...the elements of families
in myself.

00:19:16.120 --> 00:19:18.080
Yeah, so I built it.

00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:21.440
It's a hou...
my mansion, you know?

00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:25.800
And it has all these rooms,
which I've...

00:19:25.800 --> 00:19:28.960
...decorated
and put furniture in,

00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:31.360
and I move into them.

00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:35.280
No, that was me.

00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:39.960
It's still
bottoming out somewhere.

00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.240
I want to stay with you.

00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:47.720
- Darling, we have to go.
- (SOBS)

00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:52.280
- We have to go. OK?
- (SOBS) I want to be with you.

00:19:52.280 --> 00:19:54.960
Huh? Becau... You can't...

00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.360
Because we can't
get in the jail.

00:19:57.360 --> 00:20:00.760
We're going to places
no children...

00:20:00.760 --> 00:20:03.680
It's just an awful place
I'm going to today.

00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.000
OK.

00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:29.960
For whom?

00:20:40.560 --> 00:20:42.240
For the lawyers?

00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:46.880
When you say 'us',
I don't understand.

00:20:48.800 --> 00:20:50.440
Oh.

00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:56.720
OK.

00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:58.280
STELLA MORIS: Julian's
always talked about

00:20:58.280 --> 00:21:02.080
how he...when he was...
when he was a child,

00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:04.880
growing up, he always...

00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:06.720
...knew he was different.

00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:09.400
And he says...

00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:11.720
...that he wasn't...

00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:14.040
...he wasn't afraid
of an alien abduction.

00:21:14.040 --> 00:21:16.200
He was hoping that
it would happen soon

00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:17.720
because he felt like an alien.

00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:21.000
This must be the explanation,
right? (LAUGHS)

00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:24.080
So it was very funny
to...to know

00:21:24.080 --> 00:21:27.760
that Julian and...and John
had only reconnected

00:21:27.760 --> 00:21:30.440
when Julian was already a...

00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:32.720
...you know, a mature adult.

00:21:34.800 --> 00:21:37.800
Because they are very similar
in some ways.

00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:39.760
I mean, I think it's very...
(LAUGHS)

00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:41.400
...in ways that are noticeable,

00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.880
even to people
who don't know them personally.

00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.800
Their thought processes
are recognisable -

00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:51.480
ability to abstract...

00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.200
...storytelling.

00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:57.600
And kind of
a cheeky sense of humour.

00:21:57.600 --> 00:22:00.760
And he's been really...

00:22:00.760 --> 00:22:02.040
...really good.

00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:21.040
(LAUGHTER AND CHEERING)

00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:36.720
JOHN SHIPTON: I get upset
in that fuckin' place.

00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:40.000
Three suicides
and one murder this month.

00:23:03.360 --> 00:23:06.560
MAN: And when did you first
know about Julian and Stella?

00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.960
Generally speaking...

00:23:12.360 --> 00:23:14.200
(SIGHS)

00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.600
...unlike other people...

00:23:21.840 --> 00:23:24.560
...I don't invade
people's privacy,

00:23:24.560 --> 00:23:26.480
nor I am...

00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:31.400
...curious as to what...
who's going out with whom.

00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:33.640
Um...

00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.280
...so...

00:23:36.280 --> 00:23:39.560
...if I saw anything that
intimated...

00:23:41.120 --> 00:23:43.640
...intimacy...

00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:45.800
...I...

00:23:45.800 --> 00:23:47.600
...ignored it

00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:50.800
or put it under the list
of familiarity.

00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:04.720
They've spent 10 years

00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:07.000
being pursued

00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.640
by four powers,

00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:14.520
one of them being
the foremost power on earth.

00:24:16.120 --> 00:24:18.720
In an extraordinary twist
to the WikiLeaks story,

00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.760
Julian Assange, the founder
of the whistle-blower website,

00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:24.560
has taken refuge in
the Ecuador Embassy in London.

00:24:24.560 --> 00:24:26.040
REPORTER: Assange
is seeking asylum

00:24:26.040 --> 00:24:27.800
because he fears
extradition to Sweden

00:24:27.800 --> 00:24:30.360
may lead to his transfer
to the United States,

00:24:30.360 --> 00:24:33.720
where he could potentially face
charges relating to WikiLeaks.

00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:52.720
STELLA MORIS:
It was around 2015

00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.000
that we got together
in the embassy,

00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.640
and we discussed

00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:03.040
the impossibility of having
children for a long time.

00:25:03.040 --> 00:25:06.400
And we experienced
this both as...

00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.640
...as a massive tragedy, because
we had found each other.

00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:13.160
And in 2016...

00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:15.880
It seemed like
2016 was a turning point,

00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.600
because the UN Working Group
on Arbitrary Detention

00:25:18.600 --> 00:25:21.920
had just ruled in favour of
Julian and against the UK,

00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:24.480
saying that they were holding
him without any legal basis

00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:26.680
and that they were actually
violating international law

00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.080
by keeping him in the embassy,
and...and...

00:25:29.080 --> 00:25:31.000
...and it just seemed like...

00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:33.560
...clearly,
it was just a matter of time

00:25:33.560 --> 00:25:35.640
before Julian could walk free.

00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:37.840
So when we decided to
start a family,

00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:40.040
it was in a context
where there were no charges,

00:25:40.040 --> 00:25:41.800
there was no investigation,

00:25:41.800 --> 00:25:46.680
there was no reason for Julian
to be stuck in that embassy.

00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:51.000
So we had Gabriel in mid-2017,

00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:54.640
and then I would bring him
into the embassy

00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:56.720
with my friend Stephen,

00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:01.000
and...and that way, Julian
was able to see our baby.

00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:04.920
And that continued
for about six months.

00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:22.920
(INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS)

00:26:41.040 --> 00:26:44.120
(WHOOSHING)

00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:51.200
STELLA MORIS:
You know, the whole place

00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.880
was basically
bugged by the CIA.

00:26:55.320 --> 00:26:57.200
Beginning of 2018,

00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:59.840
there was a grab team
posted outside the embassy

00:26:59.840 --> 00:27:02.160
during the Christmas period.

00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.400
You know, the streets
were deserted outside,

00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:07.240
and there this was car
that was there, conspicuous,

00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.480
for...for us to see.

00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:12.800
And I remember John was there,
and we had...

00:27:12.800 --> 00:27:16.280
...we had
Christmas dinner and...

00:27:16.280 --> 00:27:18.360
...and we...you know,
we knew these...

00:27:18.360 --> 00:27:20.240
...these guys were
sitting out there.

00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:24.400
We found out that
there were plans to kill Julian

00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:28.000
by poisoning him and...

00:27:30.560 --> 00:27:33.240
...abducting him
from the embassy.

00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:34.760
Um...

00:27:34.760 --> 00:27:36.560
They grew...

00:27:36.560 --> 00:27:38.800
...increasingly aggressive.

00:27:40.280 --> 00:27:43.120
It got so bad that I had...

00:27:43.120 --> 00:27:45.840
...I was afraid
about walking home at night.

00:27:47.560 --> 00:27:49.560
Because I thought, you know...

00:27:51.120 --> 00:27:55.040
...I could just be beaten up
and assaulted or even killed

00:27:55.040 --> 00:27:58.680
just as a message to Julian.

00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:00.680
And that's why towards the...

00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:04.160
...the final three months
of my second pregnancy,

00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:08.000
we decided it was best
for me not to go in.

00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.680
And then Julian was arrested.

00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.560
(CHILD CHATTERS)

00:28:23.560 --> 00:28:25.080
STELLA MORIS: No?

00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:31.000
Oh, wow. We have a lot of
stories to get through tonight.

00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:36.200
- (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
- I will help you, Mama.

00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:37.880
Thank you.

00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.520
Alright. Shall we start
with The Gingerbread Man?

00:28:41.520 --> 00:28:43.840
Yeah.

00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:45.480
Alright.

00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:48.160
"Once upon a time,
there was a little old man.

00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:52.120
"One day, the little old woman
made a gingerbread man."

00:28:54.120 --> 00:28:56.080
Maybe Fergus Finds A Friend?

00:29:01.520 --> 00:29:03.480
The Saggy Baggy Elephant?

00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:08.560
That's quite good.

00:29:08.560 --> 00:29:11.280
And the Going on a Lion Hunt?
Did you say you knew that one?

00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:20.680
Mmm.

00:29:22.280 --> 00:29:26.280
It's the...the bear hunt one.
They know the bear hunt one.

00:29:26.280 --> 00:29:28.040
- "We're going on a bear hunt."
- Oh, yeah.

00:29:28.040 --> 00:29:31.880
"We're gonna find...a big one."

00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:50.400
Can we come in?

00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:52.000
Ah.

00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.720
She cannot talk
'cause we've got to keep still.

00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:02.880
STELLA MORIS: Extraditions
are 99% politics and 1% law.

00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.440
It's entirely the...

00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:07.320
...political climate
around the case

00:30:07.320 --> 00:30:08.960
that decides the outcome,

00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:11.880
and that is shaped by the...
by the media.

00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:16.720
And for many years, there was
a climate that was created,

00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:19.480
deliberately created,
through false stories,

00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:22.240
through smears,
through kind of a character...

00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.120
...relentless character attacks
on Julian,

00:30:25.120 --> 00:30:27.320
to try to reduce that support

00:30:27.320 --> 00:30:31.120
and make it
more possible, um...

00:30:31.120 --> 00:30:34.040
...more likely,
to successfully extradite him

00:30:34.040 --> 00:30:35.680
to the United States.

00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:39.160
And...I think it took
about a year

00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:41.360
to really feel like
I was in a place

00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:43.760
where I could go public.

00:30:43.760 --> 00:30:46.760
Oh, where are those notes?
Can I just have a look?

00:30:46.760 --> 00:30:51.320
(MAN SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
- Yeah.

00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:58.720
Thank you very much
for talking to us.

00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:00.400
I want to ask you first of all

00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:02.560
how you first met
Julian Assange

00:31:02.560 --> 00:31:04.000
and what you thought of him

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:06.160
when you first met him
nine years ago.

00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:10.480
I met Julian in Paddington,
at the Frontline Club.

00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:15.440
I thought he was intriguing,
a man with a...with a mission.

00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.600
INTERVIEWER: Julian Assange went into
the Ecuadorian Embassy in London

00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:22.000
because he wanted to avoid
being extradited to Sweden

00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:25.320
to face questioning about
allegations of sexual assault.

00:31:26.320 --> 00:31:27.800
You know that case very well.

00:31:27.800 --> 00:31:29.480
What did you think
of the allegations made

00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:32.040
by Miss A and Miss W
against him?

00:31:32.040 --> 00:31:34.640
What has to be understood

00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:37.080
about the Swedish
preliminary investigation -

00:31:37.080 --> 00:31:39.200
because it was always
a preliminary investigation -

00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:42.000
was that Julian
always cooperated.

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.080
He did not go into the embassy

00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:46.360
because he was
avoiding questioning.

00:31:46.360 --> 00:31:48.960
In fact,
he was offering questioning.

00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:50.640
Julian was never charged.

00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:53.600
None of their names
should have been leaked,

00:31:53.600 --> 00:31:55.440
including Julian's.

00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:56.960
I think
the Swedish prosecution...

00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:58.160
It's too long.

00:31:58.160 --> 00:31:59.760
I told him it's too long,

00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:02.640
but they don't take
any notice of me.

00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:04.920
One hour, maximum.

00:32:08.520 --> 00:32:12.520
These stupid PR people.
Just sick of them.

00:32:14.120 --> 00:32:17.800
Earlier this year, you said,
"Everyone has failed Julian.

00:32:17.800 --> 00:32:19.720
"We've all failed Julian."

00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:21.560
What did you mean?

00:32:21.560 --> 00:32:23.960
I mean that Julian...

00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:29.480
...is...extremely vulnerable.

00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:35.360
Now physically in the country's
highest-security prison,

00:32:35.360 --> 00:32:38.760
he's in there
because he exposed torture.

00:32:38.760 --> 00:32:41.400
The contrast...

00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:43.760
...just the... Sorry.

00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:54.560
...the injustice
is overwhelming.

00:32:57.320 --> 00:33:01.840
And it's hard, year after year.

00:33:01.840 --> 00:33:04.000
I don't think
this is people's values.

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:07.680
I don't think they think that
people who expose war crimes

00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.400
should go to prison
for the rest of their lives.

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:13.400
(SNIFFS)

00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:18.440
WOMAN: Uh, perhaps...

00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:23.840
(SNIFFS)

00:33:25.360 --> 00:33:27.600
Do you want some...
tissue, yeah?

00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:34.080
(JOHN SHIPTON
SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)

00:33:37.280 --> 00:33:40.960
- Use this one.
- (SNIFFS) Thanks.

00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:44.960
- Pear.
- You're eating pear.

00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:50.480
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)

00:33:54.320 --> 00:33:57.320
(INAUDIBLE)

00:34:01.320 --> 00:34:04.200
INTERVIEWER: How do you
deal with the fact that...

00:34:05.800 --> 00:34:08.840
...your fiance may lose
his fight against extradition,

00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:10.280
he may be sent to America,

00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:12.960
he may be tried,
he may be jailed?

00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:14.600
How do you cope with that?

00:34:14.600 --> 00:34:18.680
(SNIFFS, SIGHS) It's not a...
It's not a choice.

00:34:18.680 --> 00:34:21.800
Um...
You love who you love, and...

00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:25.000
...I love Julian for the
courageous person he is,

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:27.280
and I'll stand by him.

00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:34.640
Open the door.

00:34:34.640 --> 00:34:37.040
NILS MELZER: When Julian's
legal team contacted me,

00:34:37.040 --> 00:34:39.760
I have to admit, I mean, I...
I just saw the message

00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:42.520
kind of coming up on my screen,

00:34:42.520 --> 00:34:47.240
"Julian Assange's legal team
asks for your protection."

00:34:47.240 --> 00:34:49.280
And I immediately
had this reaction of,

00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:50.880
"No, I'm not gonna
get into this."

00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:55.920
But this reaction was not based
on an objective evaluation,

00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.400
and I have to admit today,
to my shame,

00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:02.400
it was just an emotional
reaction based on prejudice

00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:05.520
that I had in myself
I wasn't even aware of.

00:35:06.560 --> 00:35:09.160
Why am I admitting to
my prejudice?

00:35:09.160 --> 00:35:11.080
Because I think...

00:35:11.080 --> 00:35:13.600
...all of us had them
at some point, maybe...

00:35:13.600 --> 00:35:16.640
...all of us who had not
been in personal contact

00:35:16.640 --> 00:35:18.520
with Julian Assange

00:35:18.520 --> 00:35:20.600
have been affected by this,

00:35:20.600 --> 00:35:22.760
because this is
the public narrative

00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:26.000
that has been spread
in the media for 10 years,

00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.720
and no-one has been able to...

00:35:28.720 --> 00:35:33.520
...actually see
how much deception there is.

00:35:33.520 --> 00:35:35.960
Why is this being done?

00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:41.440
For 10 years, all of us have
only focused on Julian Assange,

00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:44.400
when he never wanted it
to be about him.

00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.840
It never WAS about him.

00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:49.000
It was about the States

00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:52.200
and their war crimes
and their corruption.

00:35:52.200 --> 00:35:55.680
That's what HE wanted
to put the spotlight on.

00:35:55.680 --> 00:35:57.720
And he did.

00:35:57.720 --> 00:35:59.320
And that's what
made them angry.

00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:01.800
They put the spotlight on him.

00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:16.280
JOHN SHIPTON: You know,
over the last 10 years,

00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:18.840
journalists,
for some reason or other,

00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:22.160
have seen fit to service...

00:36:22.160 --> 00:36:25.720
...the government's
attacks on Julian

00:36:25.720 --> 00:36:28.360
at the collapse
of their own self-interest

00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:30.400
and their stature.

00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:36.440
After so many years
of smearing and lobbying,

00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:38.920
this is...a good sign,

00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:40.640
that the newspapers...

00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:46.240
...realise that the extradition
of Julian Assange

00:36:46.240 --> 00:36:49.160
and the destruction
of WikiLeaks

00:36:49.160 --> 00:36:52.920
is the collapse of THEIR power.

00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:59.840
The mass media serves
only power and money, really.

00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:03.720
Each...outlet serves

00:37:03.720 --> 00:37:07.240
a different cohort
of the society.

00:37:07.240 --> 00:37:09.200
That's their function.

00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:13.360
And if they drift from that,
then they will no longer exist.

00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:20.840
REPORTER: In 1971, Ellsberg was
a high-level Pentagon analyst

00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:22.640
when he leaked
a top-secret report

00:37:22.640 --> 00:37:24.400
on US involvement in Vietnam

00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:26.320
that became known
as the Pentagon Papers,

00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:30.240
which documented how officials had
lied to the public about the war.

00:37:30.240 --> 00:37:32.960
If Julian is extradited
to the United States

00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:34.880
to face these charges,

00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:38.120
he will be the FIRST journalist
and publisher,

00:37:38.120 --> 00:37:39.600
but not the last.

00:37:39.600 --> 00:37:41.960
New York Times probably
won't be the second either.

00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:44.880
It might be
the third or the fourth.

00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.360
Really, the American press
has remained

00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:50.760
in kind of a state of denial
for 40 years, really,

00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:52.080
since my case,

00:37:52.080 --> 00:37:54.520
that the Espionage Act
has wording in it

00:37:54.520 --> 00:37:56.520
that could be aimed
directly at them,

00:37:56.520 --> 00:37:58.600
at the journalists
and publishers,

00:37:58.600 --> 00:38:01.840
although until THIS case,
it hasn't done so.

00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:04.080
So the stakes here
are enormous,

00:38:04.080 --> 00:38:07.960
and for freedom of the press
all over the world, in this.

00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:10.040
- PROTESTERS: Free Assange!
- MAN: Free! Free!

00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:12.480
- Free Assange!
- Free! Free!

00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:13.920
Free Assange!

00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:16.360
- Free! Free!
- Free Assange!

00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:18.680
REPORTER: Julian Assange
is preparing to head to court,

00:38:18.680 --> 00:38:20.720
where a hearing will begin into
whether he'll be extradited

00:38:20.720 --> 00:38:22.440
to the United States.

00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.480
Protesters have marched
across Central London,

00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:27.240
calling on Britain to reject

00:38:27.240 --> 00:38:30.080
the WikiLeaks founder's
deportation.

00:38:30.080 --> 00:38:33.400
JOHN SHIPTON: Thanks for
waiting, ladies and gentlemen.

00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:35.400
What's at stake?

00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.520
For Julian, his life.

00:38:38.520 --> 00:38:40.440
For you guys...

00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:46.480
...any prestige that you
can gather, as a journalist,

00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:48.000
protects you.

00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:49.920
So this'll be the end.

00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.520
Nobody, ever again,

00:38:52.520 --> 00:38:54.880
will be able to
get the assistance

00:38:54.880 --> 00:39:00.200
of 100,000 people worldwide
to defend them,

00:39:00.200 --> 00:39:02.240
100 lawyers,

00:39:02.240 --> 00:39:05.000
six jurisdictions,

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.440
in order to defend
Julian Assange.

00:39:08.680 --> 00:39:10.600
It'll never happen again.

00:39:10.600 --> 00:39:14.000
If he goes down,
so will journalism.

00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:16.120
(APPLAUSE)
- Thank you. Thank you.

00:39:16.120 --> 00:39:18.720
- Thank you very much.
- Thank you.

00:39:18.720 --> 00:39:21.480
- Can we get one?
- Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. OK.

00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:23.520
Everybody...we're here...

00:39:23.520 --> 00:39:25.680
We're here until
everybody's satisfied.

00:39:25.680 --> 00:39:27.360
Yeah. Perfect.

00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:28.840
REPORTER: How does it feel
to be the father

00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:31.000
of such a controversial figure,

00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:32.760
somebody who's known
around the world?

00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:36.440
Well, I don't see Julian,
myself, as controversial.

00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:39.400
I see him as a...a good man.

00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:42.600
I support Julian Assange
because he's my son

00:39:42.600 --> 00:39:44.840
and this is what a father does

00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:49.280
when their children are
in difficulty or in trouble.

00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:51.560
We are...

00:39:51.560 --> 00:39:55.680
...very trusting
of our governments,

00:39:55.680 --> 00:39:58.320
because we believe
we elect them.

00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.400
And I'm sure that
governments all over the world

00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:03.800
will begin to realise

00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:07.560
that they're faced with
a tremendous credibility gap.

00:40:07.560 --> 00:40:10.280
Just want to shake your hand.
Thank you for Julian, honestly.

00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:11.680
Thank you. Thank you.

00:40:11.680 --> 00:40:13.720
You've done a really good job.

00:40:13.720 --> 00:40:15.080
- So proud.
- Thank you.

00:40:15.080 --> 00:40:16.920
- Could I just do a quick...?
- I can't do 15 minutes.

00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:19.640
- No, you can't. I know. OK.
- We'll just be...I'll be five.

00:40:19.640 --> 00:40:21.440
I'll be dead.

00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:23.840
- My name's Fionn O Lochlainn.
- Fionn. Fionn.

00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:25.320
- Fionn O Lochlainn.
- OK.

00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:28.320
My first album is
called Spawn Of The Beast.

00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:30.880
I should have been
on that stage today,

00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:33.640
but for some reason,
your organisation
won't get in touch with me.

00:40:33.640 --> 00:40:35.080
It's not MY organisation.

00:40:35.080 --> 00:40:37.160
- I'm not even in it!
- Of course.

00:40:37.160 --> 00:40:39.480
- WOMAN: ..seconds.
- WOMAN 2: Sorry. I'm so sorry.

00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:41.720
Just please let him know
when you see him tomorrow

00:40:41.720 --> 00:40:43.480
there are many people
from Australia,

00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:46.240
me being one of them, that
are deeply thinking of him.

00:40:46.240 --> 00:40:47.440
JOHN SHIPTON: Go?

00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:50.200
My name is John Shipton.
I'm Julian Assange's father.

00:40:50.200 --> 00:40:53.960
I've come to the rally here
today in Parliament Square.

00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:58.160
Yeah, let's sit down. I mean,
I'm fuckin' worn out, you know?

00:41:01.720 --> 00:41:03.520
REPORTER:
Britain enters lockdown.

00:41:03.520 --> 00:41:07.880
Now people can only leave their
homes for very limited reasons.

00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:09.840
From this evening,
I must give the British people

00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:12.040
a very simple instruction.

00:41:12.040 --> 00:41:14.160
You must stay at home.

00:41:14.160 --> 00:41:16.840
That is the critical thing
we must do

00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:20.760
to stop the disease
spreading between households.

00:41:32.680 --> 00:41:34.480
REPORTER:
The Australian Parliament

00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:36.880
have called on
British officials and the judge

00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:38.440
to release Julian Assange

00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:40.400
due to the rapid spread
of coronavirus

00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:41.960
among the prison population

00:41:41.960 --> 00:41:43.960
and the workers
at Belmarsh Prison,

00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:45.760
where Assange is being held

00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:49.920
23 and a half hours a day
in a solitary confinement cell.

00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:53.000
Yeah. OK. Yeah. OK.
Yeah, alright.

00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:54.840
I just...you know,

00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:57.120
I've got the young family
back in Australia

00:41:57.120 --> 00:41:59.000
I haven't seen now for months.

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:00.960
So that's a bit awkward.

00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:05.760
And Julian's now
23 hours a day in the cell,

00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:07.760
because it's locked down

00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:09.600
and half the staff are off

00:42:09.600 --> 00:42:11.320
because they're
all sick with COVID

00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.200
or too frightened
to come to work.

00:42:14.200 --> 00:42:16.520
The jail's in lockdown.

00:42:16.520 --> 00:42:19.160
I don't know how
they're getting papers

00:42:19.160 --> 00:42:20.640
backward and forward.

00:42:20.640 --> 00:42:26.200
They say that they have
only had one hour with Julian

00:42:26.200 --> 00:42:28.240
in five weeks.

00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:36.120
"According to prosecutors..."
Yeah.

00:42:36.120 --> 00:42:39.360
This is why
we need you on bail.

00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:40.840
We need... Yeah.

00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:43.480
I mean, I...I can't see
how we can possibly...

00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:50.000
...prepare a defence on these
fucking phones that are...

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:51.960
Anyway.

00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.920
"According to prosecutors,
Assange obtained evidence...

00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:56.600
"...access to..." Sorry.

00:42:57.600 --> 00:42:59.000
You have to call me back.

00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:01.880
Call me back.

00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:06.720
JOHN SHIPTON: Did you hear
the story I sent you?

00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:09.280
SEVERINE: No.

00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:13.360
JOHN SHIPTON: It's about
the Snoceros and Rapunzel.

00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:15.280
(SNIFFS)

00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:18.560
And Jill and Princess Mouse.

00:43:18.560 --> 00:43:23.440
SEVERINE: Do you want to
talk to me all day or...

00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:26.800
...would you...
or have a little rest?

00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.960
I want to talk to you forever.

00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:33.760
SEVERINE: No! I can't talk
forever. I need to eat food.

00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:36.560
(LAUGHS) OK. Alright.

00:43:36.560 --> 00:43:39.640
I'll talk to you
tomorrow, then.

00:43:39.640 --> 00:43:42.040
How do we communicate this
to Julian?

00:43:42.040 --> 00:43:44.160
Because...

00:43:44.160 --> 00:43:47.520
...we're 10 days away
from the evidence deadline.

00:43:47.520 --> 00:43:50.840
We can't give him documents.
We can't go to see him.

00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:52.960
Basically,
what we'll have to do

00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:54.560
is we'll have to read out

00:43:54.560 --> 00:43:57.200
this 49-page document
over the phone.

00:43:57.200 --> 00:43:59.400
He can't even
take notes on a laptop,

00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:01.880
because he
doesn't have a laptop.

00:44:03.600 --> 00:44:05.280
JOHN SHIPTON: Hi.

00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:07.040
Yeah.

00:44:07.040 --> 00:44:11.720
Anyway, that's where
I work to fit in,

00:44:11.720 --> 00:44:14.200
as I'm an old man,
and I...you know.

00:44:14.200 --> 00:44:15.840
- Um...
- JULIAN ASSANGE: Yeah.

00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:17.800
(STAMMERS)

00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:21.480
OK. OK.

00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:25.960
Your question to my answers
always gets a raised eyebrow.

00:44:25.960 --> 00:44:27.480
- JULIAN ASSANGE: Yes.
- (LAUGHS)

00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.400
JULIAN ASSANGE: Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:32.640 --> 00:44:34.000
INTERVIEWER: Was that him
on the phone before?

00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:35.840
- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
- MAN: Yeah.

00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:39.800
INTERVIEWER: What are you talking
about on a kind of regular basis?

00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:41.480
What sort of things?

00:44:46.080 --> 00:44:47.520
JOHN SHIPTON: Mmm.

00:44:47.520 --> 00:44:52.120
I think it must be nearly
11 years since Julian...

00:44:52.120 --> 00:44:55.600
...was in the company
of a tree or a plant...

00:44:57.160 --> 00:45:00.760
...or a caterpillar
or a butterfly, and...

00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:02.480
...so he asked me, you know,

00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:04.200
did we have a walk
in the forest?

00:45:04.200 --> 00:45:05.760
(LAUGHS)

00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.280
And, yeah,
it was pleasant enough.

00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:10.480
It's a sunny day out here.

00:45:11.680 --> 00:45:13.720
Bonding, I suppose, you know,

00:45:13.720 --> 00:45:16.640
when walking with his family
and so on, yeah.

00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:25.280
I think if you applied
you know, your understanding

00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:27.800
to what it would be like

00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:31.840
to live in a room
for seven and a half years...

00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:36.360
You'd just know
every nook and cranny and...

00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:38.320
Ugh.

00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:41.960
Everything would be familiar
with. And it's still ongoing.

00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:45.360
So, yeah, the challenge is to
make him laugh, you know,

00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:47.200
when he...

00:45:47.200 --> 00:45:50.240
...rings up,
which I do, you know?

00:46:10.680 --> 00:46:13.720
REPORTER: A happy family
relaxing in a London park,

00:46:13.720 --> 00:46:16.520
but there's a hole
at the heart of it.

00:46:16.520 --> 00:46:18.600
Stella Moris was
part of Assange's legal team

00:46:18.600 --> 00:46:20.360
before she got engaged to him.

00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:22.800
Today, Stella will be
at the Old Bailey

00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:25.200
for the start of up to
four weeks of legal arguments

00:46:25.200 --> 00:46:28.640
over whether her fiance should
be extradited to America.

00:46:28.640 --> 00:46:31.120
Julian hasn't seen his lawyers
for six months.

00:46:31.120 --> 00:46:33.360
The first day that
he'll have seen his lawyers

00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:34.880
will be today.

00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:37.880
(STELLA SPEAKS SWEDISH)

00:46:40.120 --> 00:46:42.920
(CHILD CRIES)
- Bye, sweetie.

00:46:44.640 --> 00:46:47.800
(SPEAKS SWEDISH)

00:46:51.720 --> 00:46:53.560
Julian Assange
is in our headlines.

00:46:53.560 --> 00:46:55.520
He's in a London courtroom
this morning

00:46:55.520 --> 00:46:57.960
finally facing
an extradition hearing.

00:46:57.960 --> 00:46:59.760
The court is
to decide if Assange

00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:02.800
should be extradited
to the United States

00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:06.360
to face a trial over
the publication of secrets.

00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:08.520
REPORTER: The Trump administration
wants the Australian

00:47:08.520 --> 00:47:10.960
to face charges of espionage.

00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:14.400
Legal observers say
it's an unprecedented breach of

00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:16.440
US free speech protections.

00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:19.000
The US Department of Justice
is going after him

00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.960
under a different law now -
the Espionage Act.

00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:24.680
That law has been used
against whistle-blowers before,

00:47:24.680 --> 00:47:27.280
but never against a publisher.

00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:29.000
We've never in this country

00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:32.600
successfully charged somebody
for publishing secret material.

00:47:32.600 --> 00:47:35.120
There is a reason - it's
called the First Amendment -

00:47:35.120 --> 00:47:36.440
that the US government

00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:39.280
has never successfully
made that a crime before.

00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:42.320
But here, with Assange,
they are trying to do it.

00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:45.040
If Assange's publishing
of classified information

00:47:45.040 --> 00:47:46.720
runs afoul of the law,

00:47:46.720 --> 00:47:48.400
so does the work of just about

00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:50.400
every single
serious press outlet -

00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:51.920
this one included.

00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:53.960
The First Amendment protects
the basic right

00:47:53.960 --> 00:47:56.520
of a free press -
and a free people -

00:47:56.520 --> 00:48:00.080
to publish truthful information
about matters of public import,

00:48:00.080 --> 00:48:02.160
whether the government
likes it or not.

00:48:02.160 --> 00:48:04.640
(SHOUTING)
(WHISTLING)

00:48:12.040 --> 00:48:13.640
JOHN SHIPTON: All good?

00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:22.800
- Morning, John.
- Good morning.

00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:24.800
Good morning. Good to see you.

00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:27.800
Good morning, Stella.

00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:30.000
Please move, please!

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:32.160
Please. Move round these
people.

00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:33.520
Let the ladies through, please.

00:48:34.640 --> 00:48:37.320
- MAN: Free Julian Assange!
(HORNS HONK)

00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.160
REPORTER: When did you last
speak to him

00:48:39.160 --> 00:48:40.720
and see him face-to-face?

00:48:40.720 --> 00:48:43.200
Six months ago,
when COVID locked down.

00:48:43.200 --> 00:48:45.440
They're not allowed
to see anybody.

00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.320
Have you seen him today?

00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:49.240
- Only in the glass box.
- Oh, OK.

00:48:49.240 --> 00:48:51.440
- Yeah.
- Yeah. And how is he?

00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:53.520
Uh...is he...

00:48:53.520 --> 00:48:55.600
I can't answer that.
How do I know?

00:48:55.600 --> 00:48:59.240
I was sitting upstairs. He's
in the glass box downstairs.

00:48:59.240 --> 00:49:02.680
I would love to go and see him,
but it's not allowed.

00:49:02.680 --> 00:49:03.920
I'll bring you a coffee here.

00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:05.920
I'm going to go
and have a coffee.

00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.400
Yeah. I...I met you
and I know you.

00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:10.480
I have to go. I have to go.
I have to look after...

00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:12.080
Can I ask one question
for the news?

00:49:12.080 --> 00:49:14.040
No. No. No!
I just did 10 questions.

00:49:14.040 --> 00:49:16.440
- You have to come to this...
- Thank you so much for this.

00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:17.480
Thank you.

00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:20.000
- Free Julian Assange!
- I'm done. I'm done. I'm done.

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:22.680
- Just...just...just one thing.
- I'm done.

00:49:22.680 --> 00:49:24.880
(PROTESTERS SHOUT)

00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:26.400
(MURMURS) Oh, dear.

00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:32.000
Yeah. Oh, yes.

00:49:35.120 --> 00:49:36.160
(LAUGHS) Well, you know...

00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:38.640
Thank you.

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:42.040
Oh, you...you...
Yeah?

00:49:42.040 --> 00:49:44.280
...if you were fighting
for YOUR kids, you would.

00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:46.240
Yeah. I...I hope so.

00:49:46.240 --> 00:49:48.560
(BLOWS RASPBERRY)

00:49:48.560 --> 00:49:50.080
Bit scared.

00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:55.120
INTERVIEWER: Scared?

00:49:55.120 --> 00:49:56.720
Running out of juice.

00:50:06.080 --> 00:50:09.240
EDWARD SNOWDEN: But Julian
Assange, right now, today,

00:50:09.240 --> 00:50:10.840
is in court in the UK,

00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:13.040
fighting an extradition trial
to the United States.

00:50:13.040 --> 00:50:15.680
Now, he really
fell out of favour in 2016

00:50:15.680 --> 00:50:17.680
because he published
the Hillary emails

00:50:17.680 --> 00:50:21.160
and everything like that,
or Podesta emails.

00:50:21.160 --> 00:50:23.720
But he's not
being charged for that.

00:50:23.720 --> 00:50:26.760
The extradition trial
has nothing to do with that.

00:50:26.760 --> 00:50:30.280
Actually, the US government
is trying to extradite this guy

00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:32.720
and put him in prison
for the rest of his life

00:50:32.720 --> 00:50:36.120
for the BEST work
that WikiLeaks ever did,

00:50:36.120 --> 00:50:39.960
which is the Iraq and
Afghanistan War logs, right?

00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:43.560
Detainee records
in Guantanamo Bay -

00:50:43.560 --> 00:50:47.520
things that are about explicit
war crimes and abuses of power.

00:50:47.520 --> 00:50:50.000
JOE ROGAN: There's many things
that are disturbing about this case,

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:51.680
but another thing
that's been disturbing was,

00:50:51.680 --> 00:50:55.120
he was a guy
who the left supported

00:50:55.120 --> 00:50:59.120
up until 2016, and then
it became inconvenient.

00:50:59.120 --> 00:51:01.240
EDWARD SNOWDEN: When he was
dragging Bush, it was great.

00:51:01.240 --> 00:51:02.840
- Then when he's dragging...
- JOE ROGAN: Yes!

00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:04.120
...Clinton, it's not so great.

00:51:04.120 --> 00:51:06.040
JOE ROGAN: He was
the darling of the left.

00:51:06.040 --> 00:51:08.240
I mean, they were all,
"Free Julian Assange."

00:51:08.240 --> 00:51:10.000
And it's so interesting

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:13.920
how that narrative
can shift so completely to,

00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:17.200
all of a sudden,
he's a puppet of Russia.

00:51:17.200 --> 00:51:20.880
It's amazing how that
kind of propaganda,

00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:23.600
when you just get
at the surface veneer

00:51:23.600 --> 00:51:25.840
of whatever the narrative
they're trying to push,

00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:27.640
how well it spreads.

00:51:30.680 --> 00:51:34.560
JOHN SHIPTON: Snowden was
across the material really well.

00:51:34.560 --> 00:51:35.640
Yeah.

00:51:37.160 --> 00:51:39.360
- REPORTER: One second, John.
- JOHN SHIPTON: Yeah.

00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:40.880
What happened today, John?

00:51:40.880 --> 00:51:43.960
It was a very strong day
for the defence.

00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:47.240
There's nobody,
in the last 10 years,

00:51:47.240 --> 00:51:51.520
been harmed
when the files were released,

00:51:51.520 --> 00:51:55.800
and all of the cables,
15,000 cables, were redacted,

00:51:55.800 --> 00:52:00.560
so overall, the intensity
of the week is demonstrating

00:52:00.560 --> 00:52:02.880
the thoroughness of redactions

00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:08.600
and the care for people and
treasuring and cherishing life.

00:52:22.040 --> 00:52:23.720
- We've covered...
- OK.

00:52:23.720 --> 00:52:26.040
...the case for
a long, long time. So...

00:52:26.040 --> 00:52:28.640
- OK. OK.
- ...an update from you...

00:52:28.640 --> 00:52:30.480
- Here's John.
- Hi. How are you?

00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:31.880
- Hi.
- Nice to meet you.

00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:33.000
- Keir?
- Keir. Yeah.

00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:34.080
- Keir? Oh.
- Yeah.

00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:38.240
Your son is somebody that
everybody thinks they know

00:52:38.240 --> 00:52:40.640
and has an opinion about.

00:52:40.640 --> 00:52:42.600
But he's YOUR son.

00:52:42.600 --> 00:52:44.200
- JOHN SHIPTON: Yep.
- Must be...

00:52:44.200 --> 00:52:47.080
Generally...generally,
I don't...

00:52:47.080 --> 00:52:51.600
Yeah, I keep away
from commentary about Julian.

00:52:51.600 --> 00:52:56.040
Do you think that
he has been naive at times?

00:52:56.040 --> 00:52:57.640
Naive?

00:52:57.640 --> 00:53:04.240
Expecting states to obey
their own laws is hardly naive.

00:53:04.240 --> 00:53:07.240
Are you proud of...
of...of what he did there?

00:53:07.240 --> 00:53:11.520
I'm proud of his endurance
and courage, intelligence.

00:53:11.520 --> 00:53:14.400
Do you think that
Julian is a journalist?

00:53:15.560 --> 00:53:17.160
Well, of course.

00:53:17.160 --> 00:53:22.880
He now has, I think,
it's 26 journalism awards.

00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:24.480
And what are your worst fears?

00:53:27.080 --> 00:53:28.520
That he...

00:53:30.120 --> 00:53:34.160
...that he just collapses
under the strain, I mean, yeah.

00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:38.240
- Yeah. Good. Good? Yeah.
- WOMAN: Mm-hm.

00:53:38.240 --> 00:53:39.640
- Great.
- WOMAN: Yep.

00:53:39.640 --> 00:53:41.600
We'll need a walk-in shot,
if that's OK.

00:53:41.600 --> 00:53:43.040
- Do you need a shot of them...
- There's a...

00:53:43.040 --> 00:53:46.000
...standing by,
one listening to the other?

00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:51.800
JOHN SHIPTON: Listen, why don't
you people wind this up?

00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:53.560
You must do...you...

00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:00.400
Oh, yeah, OK. Sorry.
Just wondering.

00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:01.840
- Worried about your crew?
- Yeah.

00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:03.880
Like, he's looking
at the computer.

00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:06.040
He should be over here
winding you up

00:54:06.040 --> 00:54:07.640
and saying,
"You've had enough."

00:54:09.160 --> 00:54:11.840
INTERVIEWER: Did you feel that
interview was too soft?

00:54:11.840 --> 00:54:14.000
- No.
- No?

00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:15.880
No, it was fine.

00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:17.520
Just too long.

00:54:18.760 --> 00:54:21.400
INTERVIEWER: Will you watch things
like that back or you're not...?

00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:22.760
Or you just wait?

00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:25.480
Like, how do you monitor
the interviews that you do?

00:54:25.480 --> 00:54:28.160
Or do you at all?
Can you keep up with them now?

00:54:28.160 --> 00:54:30.080
Oh, I've never
watched one, ever.

00:54:30.080 --> 00:54:31.080
INTERVIEWER: No?

00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:37.480
Sometimes I listen
to Severine’s stories,

00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:40.560
to remember what
the characters are doing,

00:54:40.560 --> 00:54:43.400
but I...I've never
watched an interview.

00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:52.160
INTERVIEWER: And why is the
reason for that, for you?

00:54:55.120 --> 00:54:58.040
Mmm... I don't like them.
(LAUGHS)

00:55:00.640 --> 00:55:02.680
INTERVIEWER: I guess
what I was getting at is

00:55:02.680 --> 00:55:04.960
how hard are you on yourself?

00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:06.840
'Cause such a big part
of what you're doing

00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:08.920
is to be clearly understood.

00:55:13.240 --> 00:55:15.480
Well, my...

00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:17.560
...Great-Uncle Vivian,

00:55:17.560 --> 00:55:19.440
he died youngish, you know,

00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:22.600
at 35 or 38,
something like that.

00:55:26.160 --> 00:55:29.520
On his gravestone is the...

00:55:29.520 --> 00:55:32.440
...his name and the date he died

00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:36.320
and the inscription
"Not understood."

00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:42.680
Yeah.

00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:52.960
I don't much like
talking about myself,

00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:54.560
because it's always sectional,

00:55:54.560 --> 00:55:57.240
and a life is really
a rich thing, you know?

00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:01.800
But I find myself...

00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:03.680
...distinct...

00:56:03.680 --> 00:56:05.680
...and...

00:56:05.680 --> 00:56:08.360
...consequently, not understood.

00:56:10.680 --> 00:56:12.240
You know, the more
distinct you are,

00:56:12.240 --> 00:56:14.640
you just become more lonely,

00:56:14.640 --> 00:56:16.520
until...

00:56:16.520 --> 00:56:20.640
...you are faced with
the abomination of desolation

00:56:20.640 --> 00:56:23.080
and existential panic

00:56:23.080 --> 00:56:26.200
as you become
more and more distinct,

00:56:26.200 --> 00:56:30.320
and so you become silent,
you know?

00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:37.320
And this is your burden,
the essence of your being.

00:56:38.720 --> 00:56:42.480
Situations like this,
you know, um...

00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:47.480
...it's sort of
an interior conflict for me.

00:56:49.200 --> 00:56:52.040
INTERVIEWER: But if people
walked away from this film

00:56:52.040 --> 00:56:53.800
understanding you...

00:56:53.800 --> 00:56:56.160
...well, got the sense
of understanding you

00:56:56.160 --> 00:56:58.280
a little bit...

00:56:58.280 --> 00:56:59.880
...more deeply...

00:57:01.600 --> 00:57:03.840
...how would you feel
about that?

00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:05.080
Oh...

00:57:05.080 --> 00:57:09.800
Well, I'd be very grateful
and moved, you know?

00:57:09.800 --> 00:57:13.040
That'd be nice.
It'd be more than nice.

00:57:13.040 --> 00:57:14.440
But...

00:57:16.200 --> 00:57:19.640
We're here,
and this has only come about

00:57:19.640 --> 00:57:22.200
because we have a problem,
you know?

00:57:22.200 --> 00:57:23.800
We have a child in the shit.

00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:25.280
- INTERVIEWER: Mmm.
- And...

00:57:26.600 --> 00:57:28.080
...I want to get him out.

00:57:32.200 --> 00:57:34.960
The energies aren't with me.

00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:36.920
It's not 'John Shipton',
you know?

00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:40.560
The energies are with US
and the...

00:57:40.560 --> 00:57:43.920
...you know, "Cometh the hour,
cometh the man."

00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:47.960
The Greeks always say,
"Of gods, there are many.

00:57:47.960 --> 00:57:50.720
"Of men, there are few."

00:57:50.720 --> 00:57:51.960
INTERVIEWER: Mmm.

00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:54.040
(INDISTINCTLY CONVERSATION)

00:57:54.040 --> 00:57:57.560
I bought them because
Ai Weiwei was here today.

00:57:57.560 --> 00:57:59.960
- And he's a man of peace.
- Yeah, yeah.

00:57:59.960 --> 00:58:02.440
JOHN SHIPTON: Now...come on.

00:58:02.440 --> 00:58:04.680
You're always cranky.
You have to have a flower.

00:58:04.680 --> 00:58:07.160
- Cranky? Me?
- (LAUGHS)

00:58:11.120 --> 00:58:13.520
Good morning. Good morning.

00:58:13.520 --> 00:58:14.640
How are you?

00:58:14.640 --> 00:58:16.640
It's good to see you.
You look well.

00:58:16.640 --> 00:58:18.400
- Huh?
- (MORE LOUDLY) You look well.

00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:20.680
- You look well.
- I...yeah.

00:58:22.840 --> 00:58:24.800
Yeah. We...we go in together.

00:58:26.440 --> 00:58:28.360
Yes. Yeah.

00:58:28.360 --> 00:58:29.440
OK.

00:58:33.760 --> 00:58:34.960
Yes.

00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:38.960
Yes.

00:58:41.080 --> 00:58:45.240
No. No. Yeah. Yeah.
In the fight. Yeah. Yep.

00:58:45.240 --> 00:58:46.800
Yep.

00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:50.240
REPORTER: Why do you think

00:58:50.240 --> 00:58:52.960
there's not a great public love
of Mr Assange?

00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:14.760
MAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:40.680 --> 00:59:42.680
(SIREN WAILS)
(SHOUTING)

00:59:42.680 --> 00:59:44.680
Oh, God. Here we go.

00:59:46.520 --> 00:59:48.720
I don't like to start
too early,

00:59:48.720 --> 00:59:51.040
but what can you do?

00:59:51.040 --> 00:59:53.400
(INDISTINCT SHOUTING)

00:59:56.560 --> 01:00:00.360
Well, the big ones were
the dispute over sentencing.

01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:03.360
Then they went on
to the sort of jail

01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:05.440
that Julian would be held in

01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:07.720
and the conditions in the jail.

01:00:07.720 --> 01:00:11.720
One of the wardens
did go as much to say

01:00:11.720 --> 01:00:16.400
that time in his jail
is worse than death.

01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:17.560
REPORTER: Thank you
very much, John.

01:00:17.560 --> 01:00:18.560
JOHN SHIPTON: Thank you.

01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:34.600
MAN: Supermax is
life after death.

01:00:34.600 --> 01:00:37.320
It adds punishment
to the crime.

01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:40.080
Today, there's 420 inmates
in the prison.

01:00:40.080 --> 01:00:42.040
They've killed staff.
They've killed guards.

01:00:42.040 --> 01:00:45.240
They've earned, if you will,
the right to go to supermax.

01:00:45.240 --> 01:00:49.040
You're designing it so the inmates
can't see the sky, intentionally.

01:00:49.040 --> 01:00:52.800
And it's far...
much worse than death.

01:00:54.120 --> 01:00:58.760
So today, the... (SIGHS)
..three days of medical...

01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:00.960
...evidence begins.

01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:03.600
It will start with...

01:01:03.600 --> 01:01:07.080
...the US will
try to argue that...

01:01:07.080 --> 01:01:09.720
...yes, that he has, um...

01:01:12.200 --> 01:01:13.800
...mental health problems

01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:18.920
but that these can be managed
in the US setting.

01:01:18.920 --> 01:01:20.400
Um...

01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:22.000
So it kind of dovetails with

01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:25.480
the US prison conditions
as well.

01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:28.080
When I was speaking
to Julian yesterday,

01:01:28.080 --> 01:01:30.440
he said,
"They're burgling my mind,

01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:34.960
"and they're doing it
in a judicial setting."

01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:36.200
INTERVIEWER: And, John,

01:01:36.200 --> 01:01:39.480
did this psychological
cross-examination of Julian's...

01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:43.360
...state at the moment,
was this something that...

01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:45.840
...that you had a similar...

01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:47.600
...feeling towards?

01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:52.400
Oh, in some senses,
I don't think it matters much.

01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:54.040
There's so...

01:01:56.440 --> 01:01:57.760
There's, uh...

01:02:04.360 --> 01:02:06.800
...so many...

01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:09.480
...opinions about Julian.

01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:12.840
It just joins them, you know...

01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:17.400
...in the layer of opinions,

01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:20.040
that Julian's
this, that or the other.

01:02:20.040 --> 01:02:21.360
INTERVIEWER: Mmm.

01:02:25.040 --> 01:02:27.560
It matters
in the legal context.

01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:36.440
But in a...
in a spiritual sense, it is...

01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:38.400
...depraved...

01:02:40.720 --> 01:02:46.120
...tearing the liver,
over and over again, from...

01:02:46.120 --> 01:02:48.920
...the person, the...

01:02:48.920 --> 01:02:54.200
...that brought...brought
the gift of fire to...people.

01:02:56.440 --> 01:03:00.280
Do you know that legend?
Prometheus.

01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:03.480
It's extraordinary.

01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:08.840
Very hard to explain to people.

01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:51.280
- (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
- Yes.

01:04:03.040 --> 01:04:05.160
- DRIVER: Let's go?
- Yep.

01:04:05.160 --> 01:04:08.720
- DRIVER: Yep?
- Oh, gee. It was torrid today.

01:04:16.760 --> 01:04:18.200
Oh.

01:04:18.200 --> 01:04:20.240
Are you OK from that?

01:04:20.240 --> 01:04:21.400
Yep.

01:04:30.240 --> 01:04:32.560
INTERVIEWER: Can we talk about
his health at the moment

01:04:32.560 --> 01:04:34.960
and his autism diagnosis?

01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:37.040
JOHN SHIPTON:
I'm not interested in that.

01:04:37.040 --> 01:04:39.440
He is as he is, to me.

01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:41.040
- INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
- Yeah.

01:04:41.040 --> 01:04:44.320
INTERVIEWER: Can you explain
how that...

01:04:44.320 --> 01:04:46.280
- I have no interest in it.
- ...manifests itself?

01:04:46.280 --> 01:04:48.960
I have no interest in it.
He is as he is.

01:04:51.600 --> 01:04:54.000
INTERVIEWER: What do you understand
of autism? What do you...?

01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:55.960
JOHN SHIPTON:
Oh, I've no idea what it is.

01:04:55.960 --> 01:04:59.400
You know, I don't relate
really well to people myself.

01:04:59.400 --> 01:05:01.480
In fact...

01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:04.480
...generally speaking, I...

01:05:04.480 --> 01:05:08.960
...I had no idea what people
were like until quite late...

01:05:08.960 --> 01:05:11.240
...in life.

01:05:11.240 --> 01:05:16.880
But I just was always throwing
myself up against ideas that...

01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:19.400
Well, people said
I was angry, you know,

01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:23.120
but I'm mild-natured,
so I can't have been too angry.

01:05:28.120 --> 01:05:31.160
INTERVIEWER: When's your earliest
memory of that occurring?

01:05:31.160 --> 01:05:36.200
JOHN SHIPTON: I suppose the
earliest memory was 11 and 12,

01:05:36.200 --> 01:05:40.720
writing the works of Voltaire
on the blackboard

01:05:40.720 --> 01:05:43.320
while everybody was...

01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:44.760
...in chapel,

01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:49.640
because I knew their beliefs
are otherwise.

01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:54.400
You know, I...

01:05:54.400 --> 01:05:57.400
...I think...from the age of...

01:05:59.200 --> 01:06:01.080
...15 onwards

01:06:01.080 --> 01:06:03.800
suffered from
varying depths of depression

01:06:03.800 --> 01:06:05.880
until about 28 or 29.

01:06:07.200 --> 01:06:09.720
Um...

01:06:09.720 --> 01:06:11.920
So I was pretty quiet,
you know?

01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:13.480
INTERVIEWER: Mmm. Mmm.

01:06:14.640 --> 01:06:18.240
JOHN SHIPTON: I was a hermit
for a while. That's not much fun.

01:06:19.960 --> 01:06:25.960
But I found myself
riddled with fractures

01:06:25.960 --> 01:06:29.400
and objections and...

01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:32.560
...guilts and shames and...

01:06:32.560 --> 01:06:36.880
...all of those devilish things.

01:06:40.080 --> 01:06:42.280
INTERVIEWER: What brought you
out of that period, then?

01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:43.560
JOHN SHIPTON:
Well, I don't know.

01:06:43.560 --> 01:06:46.560
You know, just...
you just learn techniques

01:06:46.560 --> 01:06:49.680
of how to relate to people,
yeah.

01:06:49.680 --> 01:06:52.720
Also, my curiosity, you know,
was boundless,

01:06:52.720 --> 01:06:57.960
so I gradually discovered ways
to be with people

01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:03.680
without collapsing into
nervous distress, um...

01:07:03.680 --> 01:07:06.760
You might say one was Aspergic

01:07:06.760 --> 01:07:11.400
and, through suffering,
learnt technique.

01:07:11.400 --> 01:07:13.720
- INTERVIEWER: Mmm.
- You know? So...

01:07:14.720 --> 01:07:19.200
...I had a burning desire,
still have it,

01:07:19.200 --> 01:07:21.600
to be able to...

01:07:21.600 --> 01:07:23.560
...to give love.

01:07:23.560 --> 01:07:26.680
I just wanted to do that.
I wanted to love people.

01:07:28.160 --> 01:07:32.120
But people are funny creatures.

01:07:32.120 --> 01:07:33.240
Um...

01:07:33.240 --> 01:07:36.280
And in order to love them,

01:07:36.280 --> 01:07:40.120
you have to find
what they want,

01:07:40.120 --> 01:07:43.520
how they want love
to come to them.

01:07:43.520 --> 01:07:48.800
And so learning that
was a bit of a craft.

01:07:50.280 --> 01:07:52.840
INTERVIEWER: But did you feel that
came easier to others than you?

01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:54.080
Or is that something
you sense...?

01:07:54.080 --> 01:07:56.400
Oh, no, no. I don't...
People don't do it.

01:07:56.400 --> 01:07:58.520
You know,
they only do it out of...

01:07:58.520 --> 01:08:01.920
They do it as
a transactional exchange.

01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:04.000
They WANT love,

01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:06.120
so they give it
in order to get it.

01:08:07.240 --> 01:08:10.240
I just wanted to be able to...
to love.

01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:11.560
- INTERVIEWER: Mmm.
- Um...

01:08:12.600 --> 01:08:13.600
Mmm.

01:08:16.920 --> 01:08:19.040
INTERVIEWER: Have you just
stepped into the film now?

01:08:19.040 --> 01:08:20.320
- Me?
- INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

01:08:20.320 --> 01:08:21.920
Yeah. That's... (LAUGHS)

01:08:21.920 --> 01:08:23.320
INTERVIEWER: This is our
routine in the morning.

01:08:23.320 --> 01:08:24.520
Oh, right.

01:08:24.520 --> 01:08:27.320
(SHOUTING)
(DRUMS BEAT)

01:08:28.680 --> 01:08:32.440
Good morning. Good morning.
Good morning. Good morning.

01:08:32.440 --> 01:08:33.880
- Are you well today?
- Good morning.

01:08:33.880 --> 01:08:36.800
Yes, yes. Good morning.
Well, thank you.

01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:39.240
This is Gabriel,
Julian's brother.

01:08:39.240 --> 01:08:40.800
Hi. How are you?

01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:44.280
This is Gabriel.
This is Julian's brother.

01:08:44.280 --> 01:08:46.360
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

01:08:46.360 --> 01:08:48.440
This is Gabriel,
Julian's brother.

01:08:50.320 --> 01:08:53.960
Julian Assange has been
suffering terrible deprivation,

01:08:53.960 --> 01:08:57.840
and all because
he published the truth.

01:08:57.840 --> 01:09:02.880
And much of that truth
revealed terrible crimes -

01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:06.000
war crimes
and crimes against humanity,

01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:08.760
and lies and corruption
by government.

01:09:08.760 --> 01:09:12.680
And not one of the people
who committed those war crimes

01:09:12.680 --> 01:09:15.000
is on trial anywhere.

01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:17.240
Instead, we have the man

01:09:17.240 --> 01:09:21.000
who had the courage
to reveal those war crimes

01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:24.280
is the one
whose liberty is at stake,

01:09:24.280 --> 01:09:26.640
and that is not right.

01:09:26.640 --> 01:09:29.360
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

01:09:36.200 --> 01:09:39.080
I mean, I think
this is an important...

01:09:40.480 --> 01:09:43.040
...process overall
that you're going from...

01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:46.960
...that the criminality
is not Julian.

01:09:46.960 --> 01:09:48.720
Julian is, like, the...

01:09:50.040 --> 01:09:51.760
...he's the victim, right,

01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:53.920
and there's all this
criminality surrounding him,

01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:57.280
and he's the one exposing
the criminality and so on.

01:09:57.280 --> 01:09:58.600
Um...

01:09:58.600 --> 01:10:01.440
So you have to shift the...

01:10:01.440 --> 01:10:04.200
...perception of...
of where the crime is.

01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:30.680
REPORTER: ...concerned
about how he will handle

01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:32.160
the end of his presidency.

01:10:32.160 --> 01:10:34.200
President Trump's
brazen and delusional push

01:10:34.200 --> 01:10:36.080
to overturn the 2020 election

01:10:36.080 --> 01:10:38.280
is alarming
some senior officials

01:10:38.280 --> 01:10:40.160
and people
close to the President,

01:10:40.160 --> 01:10:41.680
who say they're concerned about

01:10:41.680 --> 01:10:43.640
how he's handling
his final weeks...

01:10:43.640 --> 01:10:45.040
STELLA MORIS:
My parents were engaged in

01:10:45.040 --> 01:10:48.160
the apartheid struggle
in South Africa.

01:10:48.160 --> 01:10:50.320
We were living in Botswana,

01:10:50.320 --> 01:10:52.400
and, as a child, growing up,

01:10:52.400 --> 01:10:55.560
we would be going to
the rallies and singing the...

01:10:55.560 --> 01:10:57.800
...the freedom,
the liberation, songs

01:10:57.800 --> 01:11:01.040
and have these stories about

01:11:01.040 --> 01:11:04.880
the heroes
and the martyrs, I guess,

01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:07.320
the ones who...who
didn't survive.

01:11:07.320 --> 01:11:11.520
And that kind of shaped
a lot of my early years,

01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:14.360
my early political education.

01:11:14.360 --> 01:11:18.720
You know, there was a very
clear sense of right and wrong

01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:22.600
and of...clear oppression,

01:11:22.600 --> 01:11:26.280
of things that were
being done to good people.

01:11:29.160 --> 01:11:32.000
So I studied politics and law,

01:11:32.000 --> 01:11:35.680
and it was definitely
because I was drawn to...

01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:40.400
...issues to do with
justice and power, I guess.

01:11:40.400 --> 01:11:42.160
Should I go for the rest?

01:11:45.160 --> 01:11:47.120
Wait, wait.

01:11:47.120 --> 01:11:48.640
Hold on.

01:11:48.640 --> 01:11:49.880
OK.

01:11:49.880 --> 01:11:53.600
So this one in Belmarsh a few
minutes ago, outside Belmarsh.

01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:57.480
(CHOIR SINGS)
- It's a gospel choir.

01:11:57.480 --> 01:12:00.480
And they're standing outside,
like, the main entrance,

01:12:00.480 --> 01:12:02.720
where you're
not supposed to film.

01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:05.800
- That's Daddy.
- JULIAN ASSANGE: Yep.

01:12:05.800 --> 01:12:09.000
- I think they sang two songs.
- That was Daddy.

01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:12.880
- Daddy.
- It's Daddy, isn't it?

01:12:12.880 --> 01:12:15.160
(CHOIR SINGS)

01:12:15.160 --> 01:12:17.680
- My daddy.
- It's Daddy.

01:12:17.680 --> 01:12:22.560
♪ Something inside so strong

01:12:22.560 --> 01:12:26.080
♪ I know that I can make it

01:12:26.080 --> 01:12:29.280
♪ Though you're doing me wrong,
so wrong

01:12:29.280 --> 01:12:32.440
♪ You thought that
my pride was gone

01:12:32.440 --> 01:12:35.280
♪ Oh, no

01:12:35.280 --> 01:12:39.240
♪ Something inside
so strong... ♪

01:12:46.160 --> 01:12:48.320
STELLA MORIS:
Well, they're all in...

01:12:48.320 --> 01:12:50.520
...you know...

01:12:50.520 --> 01:12:52.240
...winter jackets and...

01:12:59.080 --> 01:13:00.560
(CHUCKLES)

01:13:00.560 --> 01:13:03.280
There was a lot of singing
in South Africa as well.

01:13:07.160 --> 01:13:08.360
This too much?

01:13:13.080 --> 01:13:15.440
Mama! Look!

01:13:15.440 --> 01:13:17.720
It's time to get ready for bed.

01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:20.080
- But, look...
- Toys in the box.

01:13:20.080 --> 01:13:23.640
GABRIEL: It was so good,
the music.

01:13:23.640 --> 01:13:25.760
- JULIAN ASSANGE: Mm-hm.
- STELLA MORIS: Music?

01:13:25.760 --> 01:13:28.240
JULIAN ASSANGE:
It was good, that music.

01:13:28.240 --> 01:13:29.840
STELLA MORIS:
Do you want to show Daddy

01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:32.840
how you can sing
Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star?

01:13:32.840 --> 01:13:36.080
GABRIEL: ♪ Twinkle,
twinkle, twinkle... ♪

01:13:36.080 --> 01:13:38.000
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)

01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:39.840
JULIAN ASSANGE:
Keep going. Keep going.

01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:44.400
♪ Twinkle, twinkle,
little star... ♪

01:13:44.400 --> 01:13:48.080
(GABRIEL BABBLES)
- ♪ How I wonder what you are.

01:13:48.080 --> 01:13:51.400
GABRIEL: ♪ Twinkle,
twinkle, twinkle... ♪

01:13:52.440 --> 01:13:55.400
(BELLS PEAL)

01:14:00.400 --> 01:14:02.080
Hi.

01:14:02.080 --> 01:14:03.400
JULIAN ASSANGE: How are you?

01:14:03.400 --> 01:14:05.760
Alright.

01:14:05.760 --> 01:14:07.800
- So...
- Yes?

01:14:07.800 --> 01:14:10.680
...there's someone else using...

01:14:10.680 --> 01:14:12.520
...Purple Visits next to you?

01:14:17.400 --> 01:14:18.840
Oh, OK.

01:14:18.840 --> 01:14:20.120
Um...

01:14:21.640 --> 01:14:23.320
...how are you?

01:14:23.320 --> 01:14:25.360
Are you covering
your neck beard?

01:14:39.520 --> 01:14:42.080
A power nap? You see?

01:14:42.080 --> 01:14:43.640
I can tell.

01:14:47.480 --> 01:14:49.120
(LAUGHS)

01:14:51.240 --> 01:14:53.360
Well, I'm in the kids' room.

01:14:53.360 --> 01:14:55.520
Well, where I sleep as well.

01:14:57.240 --> 01:14:59.280
- See?
- JULIAN ASSANGE: Yeah.

01:15:00.560 --> 01:15:03.680
And it's a sunny day outside.
Want to see?

01:15:07.480 --> 01:15:09.040
It's the inner yard.

01:15:10.760 --> 01:15:12.200
STELLA MORIS: Yeah.

01:15:12.200 --> 01:15:14.240
(HOOVES CLOP)
- Do you want me to go out?

01:15:19.160 --> 01:15:21.720
(HOOVES CLOP)

01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:23.000
Yeah.

01:15:24.080 --> 01:15:25.720
(HORSE WHINNIES)

01:15:26.800 --> 01:15:28.480
Yeah. (LAUGHS)

01:15:39.040 --> 01:15:41.440
- (BABBLES)
- Come here.

01:15:43.120 --> 01:15:44.600
STELLA MORIS:
I think many people

01:15:44.600 --> 01:15:48.320
who have had
a family member with a...

01:15:48.320 --> 01:15:51.160
...you know, a depressive
disorder or severe depression,

01:15:51.160 --> 01:15:53.920
you just don't know
how you can help,

01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:55.400
and specially
in this situation,

01:15:55.400 --> 01:15:57.440
where you're not even there,

01:15:57.440 --> 01:16:00.560
you don't really know
what's going on,

01:16:00.560 --> 01:16:03.200
only what they tell you, um...

01:16:05.280 --> 01:16:07.280
it can be really, really tough.

01:16:07.280 --> 01:16:08.920
Uh, so...

01:16:15.080 --> 01:16:17.000
Yeah, I mean, it's...

01:16:19.120 --> 01:16:21.480
Without the phone calls,
it would be...

01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:25.280
...enormously...

01:16:27.120 --> 01:16:29.840
...challenging and difficult.
Uh...

01:16:29.840 --> 01:16:32.840
With the phone calls,
it's still challenging
and difficult,

01:16:32.840 --> 01:16:34.120
but it's...

01:16:38.200 --> 01:16:40.360
...it's really important,

01:16:40.360 --> 01:16:41.960
for both of us.

01:16:41.960 --> 01:16:45.080
No, it's OK. I have to go.
I have everything.

01:16:45.080 --> 01:16:46.640
All the important stuff
is in this...

01:16:46.640 --> 01:16:50.040
(BABBLES CHILDISHLY)
(YAWNS)

01:16:59.840 --> 01:17:01.520
- You OK?
- Yeah.

01:17:10.160 --> 01:17:12.880
(SEVERINE BABBLES
IN SING-SONG VOICE)

01:17:20.120 --> 01:17:21.600
So...

01:17:21.600 --> 01:17:24.120
...how long...when are...

01:17:24.120 --> 01:17:27.440
How longer
are you gonna be in...

01:17:27.440 --> 01:17:29.760
...in...in London?

01:17:29.760 --> 01:17:31.760
It won't be long now.

01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:35.320
Just another 60 story times.

01:17:35.320 --> 01:17:37.000
(LAUGHS)

01:17:37.000 --> 01:17:42.400
JOHN SHIPTON: If I could give,
illustrate, something about us,

01:17:42.400 --> 01:17:50.280
in Moby-Dick, they would
spot a whale pod from the mast,

01:17:50.280 --> 01:17:51.680
and they'd launch the boats.

01:17:51.680 --> 01:17:55.480
Now, if the whales
are disciplined,

01:17:55.480 --> 01:17:59.960
they can probably
outrun the rowing boats

01:17:59.960 --> 01:18:01.840
that are after them.

01:18:01.840 --> 01:18:05.440
But the rowing boats
keep on coming,

01:18:05.440 --> 01:18:07.520
keep on coming, keep on coming,

01:18:07.520 --> 01:18:10.240
keep on coming,
keep on coming.

01:18:10.240 --> 01:18:14.240
And this translates to a...

01:18:14.240 --> 01:18:16.520
...a fear...

01:18:16.520 --> 01:18:18.240
...in the pod.

01:18:18.240 --> 01:18:19.960
And the...

01:18:19.960 --> 01:18:22.120
...the fear...

01:18:22.120 --> 01:18:24.760
...generates urgency,

01:18:24.760 --> 01:18:27.840
and urgency generates panic,

01:18:27.840 --> 01:18:29.800
and the panic...

01:18:29.800 --> 01:18:32.760
...causes them to break form.

01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:34.400
Once they break in form,

01:18:34.400 --> 01:18:36.560
they fall victim
to the hunters.

01:18:36.560 --> 01:18:37.880
INTERVIEWER: Mmm.

01:18:37.880 --> 01:18:39.240
JOHN SHIPTON: You learn,

01:18:39.240 --> 01:18:41.480
through practice after practice
after practice

01:18:41.480 --> 01:18:42.920
to keep form.

01:18:44.320 --> 01:18:46.840
As long as you keep to form...

01:18:49.800 --> 01:18:52.840
REPORTER: For publishing hundreds of
thousands of classified documents,

01:18:52.840 --> 01:18:54.800
he faces
a maximum jail sentence

01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:58.360
of 175 years
under the Espionage Act.

01:18:58.360 --> 01:19:01.680
He's already spent 21 months
in a UK prison.

01:19:01.680 --> 01:19:04.400
On Monday, a judge
at London's Old Bailey

01:19:04.400 --> 01:19:08.560
will decide whether he can be
extradited to the United States,

01:19:08.560 --> 01:19:11.800
but both sides can appeal a
decision that goes against them,

01:19:11.800 --> 01:19:13.200
so either way,

01:19:13.200 --> 01:19:16.280
Julian Assange's legal
struggles are set to continue.

01:19:25.400 --> 01:19:27.320
JOHN SHIPTON:
More police this time, huh?

01:19:29.920 --> 01:19:32.880
It's fascism!
Get that into your heads!

01:19:32.880 --> 01:19:34.120
I am giving you a warning.

01:19:34.120 --> 01:19:36.120
Are you going
to give my property back?

01:19:36.120 --> 01:19:37.920
(SHOUTS) I have been

01:19:37.920 --> 01:19:42.240
a loud voice
for Julian Assange!

01:19:42.240 --> 01:19:47.160
We could have been there,
but this...

01:19:47.160 --> 01:19:51.160
...is a really strong
opportunity

01:19:51.160 --> 01:19:53.480
to put Julian's case before...

01:19:54.920 --> 01:19:57.040
...people in the United States

01:19:57.040 --> 01:19:59.960
that are responsible
for these decisions.

01:19:59.960 --> 01:20:05.080
(SHOUTING)
- Free Julian Assange!

01:20:05.080 --> 01:20:07.400
Julian's just
entered the courtroom.

01:20:07.400 --> 01:20:08.920
Ah.

01:20:08.920 --> 01:20:11.320
- Is that Twitter?
- Yeah.

01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:16.680
MAN: Free Julian Assange!

01:20:19.240 --> 01:20:22.480
PROTESTERS:
Free Julian Assange!

01:20:22.480 --> 01:20:25.400
Free Julian Assange!

01:20:29.520 --> 01:20:33.360
Judge enters.
Judge giving her na...his name.

01:20:33.360 --> 01:20:37.960
PROTESTERS: Free Julian
Assange! Free Julian Assange!

01:20:37.960 --> 01:20:39.800
Judge says that she found

01:20:39.800 --> 01:20:41.800
that notwithstanding
his support from family,

01:20:41.800 --> 01:20:45.040
Mr Assange has remained
either severely or moderately

01:20:45.040 --> 01:20:47.320
clinically depressed
during detention

01:20:47.320 --> 01:20:50.680
and that he is at risk
of suicide or self-harm.

01:20:50.680 --> 01:20:52.680
He has the intelligence
and determination

01:20:52.680 --> 01:20:55.480
to circumvent
suicide protocols.

01:20:55.480 --> 01:20:57.760
No extradition.

01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:00.120
- No extradition?
- That's what Mary's saying.

01:21:00.120 --> 01:21:03.560
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

01:21:07.560 --> 01:21:11.720
Yeah! Free Assange!

01:21:11.720 --> 01:21:14.640
- Free Assange!
(CHEERING)

01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:16.680
(LAUGHS)
- PROTESTERS: Free Julian Assange!

01:21:16.680 --> 01:21:19.040
Free Julian Assange!

01:21:19.040 --> 01:21:21.160
Yeah, good work,
all those people.

01:21:21.160 --> 01:21:22.160
PROTESTERS: Free!

01:21:22.160 --> 01:21:25.440
Free, free, free Assange!
Free, free...

01:21:25.440 --> 01:21:26.960
Developing news -
this is coming out of the UK

01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:28.360
just in the past few minutes.

01:21:28.360 --> 01:21:31.800
A court has denied a request
from the United States...

01:21:31.800 --> 01:21:33.920
A very significant
decision made

01:21:33.920 --> 01:21:38.160
to refuse this extradition
of Julian Assange.

01:21:38.160 --> 01:21:40.000
Well, the judge ruled
against extradition

01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:43.600
because she said she was concerned
about Assange's mental health.

01:21:43.600 --> 01:21:44.920
REPORTER: She said,
and to quote her words,

01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:47.520
"I'm satisfied that the procedures
described by the US will not

01:21:47.520 --> 01:21:51.440
"prevent Mr Assange from finding
a way to commit suicide."

01:21:51.440 --> 01:21:55.240
- PROTESTERS: Free Assange now!
- They're coming out now.

01:21:55.240 --> 01:21:59.720
Keep to the side.
Keep it to that side.

01:21:59.720 --> 01:22:01.280
Let's have some room, guys.
Come on.

01:22:01.280 --> 01:22:02.920
Keep moving back, please.

01:22:02.920 --> 01:22:05.840
Move back. Keep moving back.
Keep moving back.

01:22:07.800 --> 01:22:11.120
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

01:22:15.480 --> 01:22:16.920
STELLA MORIS:
Please bear with me,

01:22:16.920 --> 01:22:19.400
because I've had to
rewrite my speech.

01:22:19.400 --> 01:22:21.560
(LAUGHS) Oh, dear. Oh, dear.

01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:23.560
I had hoped that today

01:22:23.560 --> 01:22:26.760
would be the day that
Julian would come home.

01:22:28.040 --> 01:22:30.400
Today is not that day.

01:22:30.400 --> 01:22:32.040
But that day will come soon.

01:22:32.040 --> 01:22:33.640
WOMAN: Yeah.

01:22:33.640 --> 01:22:36.160
We are extremely concerned

01:22:36.160 --> 01:22:37.840
that the US government

01:22:37.840 --> 01:22:40.200
has decided
to appeal this decision.

01:22:41.200 --> 01:22:44.080
It continues
to want to punish Julian.

01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:49.280
We will never accept
that journalism is a crime,

01:22:49.280 --> 01:22:51.920
in this country or any other.

01:22:53.360 --> 01:22:59.440
I ask you all to shout louder,
lobby harder until he is free.

01:22:59.440 --> 01:23:01.480
Free Julian.

01:23:01.480 --> 01:23:03.240
Free the press.

01:23:03.240 --> 01:23:05.320
- Free us all.
(SHOUTING)

01:23:05.320 --> 01:23:07.360
CROWD: Free Julian Assange!

01:23:07.360 --> 01:23:09.760
Free, free! Now!

01:23:09.760 --> 01:23:12.240
Free Julian Assange! Now!

01:23:12.240 --> 01:23:14.600
Free Julian Assange!
Now!

01:23:14.600 --> 01:23:16.680
Free Julian Assange! Now!

01:23:16.680 --> 01:23:19.120
Free Julian Assange!
Now!

01:23:19.120 --> 01:23:21.200
Free Julian Assange! Now!

01:23:21.200 --> 01:23:23.480
Free Julian Assange!
Now!

01:23:23.480 --> 01:23:25.640
Free Julian Assange! Now!

01:23:25.640 --> 01:23:27.680
Free Julian Assange!
Now!

01:23:27.680 --> 01:23:31.680
Free Julian Assange! Now!
(CHEERING)

01:23:31.680 --> 01:23:34.800
(SHOUTING)

01:23:34.800 --> 01:23:37.360
(CHANTING CONTINUES
INDISTINCTLY)

01:23:41.520 --> 01:23:43.920
Oh, Dad, do you... How do
you feel, not being there?

01:23:43.920 --> 01:23:45.080
Huh?

01:23:45.080 --> 01:23:46.520
How do you feel,
not being there?

01:23:46.520 --> 01:23:49.600
Oh, OK. OK. I...I...

01:23:49.600 --> 01:23:52.600
I like to...to, um...

01:23:52.600 --> 01:23:55.760
...build the house
and see other people move in.

01:23:57.840 --> 01:23:59.520
It's my nature.

01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:02.640
PROTESTERS: Free Assange now!
Free Assange now!

01:24:02.640 --> 01:24:05.880
FIDEL NARVAEZ: Every journalist
should be concerned

01:24:05.880 --> 01:24:10.320
about what was said
today in court.

01:24:10.320 --> 01:24:12.320
Because...

01:24:12.320 --> 01:24:16.720
...the political arguments
provided by the United States

01:24:16.720 --> 01:24:21.440
were upheld
by the British judicial system.

01:24:21.440 --> 01:24:27.520
I repeat, it's only
the doctor's assessment

01:24:27.520 --> 01:24:32.080
of the fragile health condition
of Julian Assange

01:24:32.080 --> 01:24:35.920
that have saved him
from extradition.

01:24:35.920 --> 01:24:38.720
So, what does this case mean
for media freedoms,

01:24:38.720 --> 01:24:41.920
and especially
in light of today's judgement?

01:24:41.920 --> 01:24:44.360
ANDREW FOWLER:
Well, it looks as though

01:24:44.360 --> 01:24:46.280
what journalists do
for a living

01:24:46.280 --> 01:24:50.240
is seen by the British courts
to be a criminal act.

01:24:50.240 --> 01:24:52.840
In a sense,
the system has succeeded

01:24:52.840 --> 01:24:54.840
in intimidating the world

01:24:54.840 --> 01:24:56.720
and in passing
the message that,

01:24:56.720 --> 01:24:58.800
"This is
what's going to happen to you

01:24:58.800 --> 01:25:04.200
"if ever you have the idea of
publishing our dirty secrets."

01:25:04.200 --> 01:25:06.920
We're wrong to think

01:25:06.920 --> 01:25:09.800
that it's about
who wins the extradition case.

01:25:11.880 --> 01:25:14.560
As long as
Julian Assange is silenced,

01:25:14.560 --> 01:25:16.960
in solitary confinement,

01:25:16.960 --> 01:25:19.560
this proceeding
can last as long as it wants.

01:25:21.920 --> 01:25:24.480
The US has won.

01:25:24.480 --> 01:25:27.880
I can guarantee you
that already today,

01:25:27.880 --> 01:25:32.640
people who might otherwise
leak secret information

01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:34.280
are now
very careful about this,

01:25:34.280 --> 01:25:36.920
because they can see with their
own eyes what's going to happen.

01:25:38.920 --> 01:25:41.280
And that's...
THAT'S the dangerous thing.

01:25:41.280 --> 01:25:44.800
We have to
control our government.

01:25:44.800 --> 01:25:46.880
That's what democracy is about.

01:25:46.880 --> 01:25:49.680
How can you be
controlling your government

01:25:49.680 --> 01:25:52.080
if you don't know the truth?

01:26:04.120 --> 01:26:05.840
(VACUUM CLEANER WHIRRS)

01:26:09.920 --> 01:26:11.600
Can I show you around?

01:26:12.600 --> 01:26:14.760
I guess as long as
there's no...

01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:16.600
...no-one in the frame, right?

01:26:20.840 --> 01:26:22.520
Your books.

01:26:22.520 --> 01:26:23.720
Oh, tent?

01:26:27.200 --> 01:26:28.840
Yep.

01:26:28.840 --> 01:26:30.200
Your books are here,

01:26:30.200 --> 01:26:32.400
and your awards, a few of them.

01:26:34.360 --> 01:26:36.640
And a Australia map.

01:26:39.160 --> 01:26:40.800
REPORTER: Now, good
morning to you, Stella,

01:26:40.800 --> 01:26:43.000
and it is a very good morning
for you.

01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:45.440
You're his fiancee,
but you're also his lawyer.

01:26:45.440 --> 01:26:46.600
What was going through
your mind

01:26:46.600 --> 01:26:48.000
when that verdict was given?

01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:53.200
Um...well, I...I had prepared
myself for the worst, and...

01:26:53.200 --> 01:26:55.200
..but once I realised
that Julian has...had won,

01:26:55.200 --> 01:26:58.200
I...I wept with relief,

01:26:58.200 --> 01:27:00.480
and it was
a very emotional moment.

01:27:00.480 --> 01:27:04.840
Um, so I'm...I'm hopeful
that what follows from that

01:27:04.840 --> 01:27:07.320
is that he'll be released today
from Belmarsh,

01:27:07.320 --> 01:27:09.240
because the conditions
in Belmarsh

01:27:09.240 --> 01:27:11.080
are absolutely atrocious.

01:27:21.400 --> 01:27:23.720
(INDISTINCT CLAMOURING)

01:27:25.600 --> 01:27:28.480
This is a huge disappointment.

01:27:28.480 --> 01:27:30.320
Julian should not be
in Belmarsh Prison

01:27:30.320 --> 01:27:32.440
in the first place.

01:27:32.440 --> 01:27:36.480
I urge the Department of
Justice to drop the charges

01:27:36.480 --> 01:27:39.000
and the President of
the United States

01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:40.800
to pardon Julian.

01:27:55.120 --> 01:27:56.320
OK.

01:27:57.760 --> 01:27:58.960
OK.

01:28:00.360 --> 01:28:02.240
I'm just so tired.

01:28:08.760 --> 01:28:10.560
Yeah.

01:28:12.200 --> 01:28:13.240
Oh, God.

01:28:13.240 --> 01:28:16.400
Trump supporters have stormed
the US Capitol Building.

01:28:17.480 --> 01:28:19.560
REPORTER: The peaceful
transfer of power,

01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:21.920
the cornerstone
of American democracy,

01:28:21.920 --> 01:28:24.360
seemed a highly abstract
concept today...

01:28:24.360 --> 01:28:25.840
(SHOUTING)

01:28:25.840 --> 01:28:28.600
...as Trump supporters
clashed with police

01:28:28.600 --> 01:28:32.040
as they tried, and succeeded,
to storm the Congress,

01:28:32.040 --> 01:28:34.000
where America's elected leaders

01:28:34.000 --> 01:28:37.400
had gathered to certify the
election victory of Joe Biden.

01:28:38.400 --> 01:28:40.640
Leading Republicans
have distanced themselves

01:28:40.640 --> 01:28:41.880
from the President,

01:28:41.880 --> 01:28:43.600
who has not condemned
the rioters,

01:28:43.600 --> 01:28:45.360
and now there are growing calls

01:28:45.360 --> 01:28:47.880
for President Trump
to be removed from office,

01:28:47.880 --> 01:28:51.280
with just 13 days to go
before the end of his term.

01:28:51.280 --> 01:28:53.400
Donald Trump
will reportedly issue

01:28:53.400 --> 01:28:55.520
around 100 pardons
and commutations

01:28:55.520 --> 01:28:57.960
on his final days in office.

01:28:57.960 --> 01:29:00.280
Free press advocates
are calling on the President

01:29:00.280 --> 01:29:03.360
to pardon WikiLeaks founder
and Australian citizen

01:29:03.360 --> 01:29:04.880
Julian Assange.

01:29:25.760 --> 01:29:27.000
OK.

01:29:28.760 --> 01:29:30.240
Yep.

01:29:30.240 --> 01:29:32.320
- Hi.
- JOHN SHIPTON: Hi.

01:29:32.320 --> 01:29:34.880
STELLA MORIS: Um, Trump
might get...

01:29:36.360 --> 01:29:39.680
...uh, removed before the 20th.

01:29:39.680 --> 01:29:43.400
Yeah, I think on balance,
it's a good idea to...

01:29:43.400 --> 01:29:48.440
...to...to hire this,
or appoint this, lobbyist.

01:29:50.200 --> 01:29:53.680
Oh. Well, uh, um,
if you say so.

01:29:53.680 --> 01:29:58.080
But I don't know. I...I can't
see what's in it for Mr Trump.

01:29:58.080 --> 01:30:01.680
People say that it'd be great
to get up Hillary's nose

01:30:01.680 --> 01:30:03.160
on the way out.

01:30:03.160 --> 01:30:05.480
Well, that's not
much of a motivation

01:30:05.480 --> 01:30:07.880
for a...a...a president,

01:30:07.880 --> 01:30:10.080
you know, to...to, uh...

01:30:10.080 --> 01:30:11.760
No, it's not about that.

01:30:11.760 --> 01:30:14.480
It's about his base
wanting the pardon.

01:30:14.480 --> 01:30:15.640
JOHN SHIPTON: Well...

01:30:15.640 --> 01:30:18.880
The...the base that he needs to
be able to go for...

01:30:18.880 --> 01:30:21.720
...run for president
in four years' time.

01:30:21.720 --> 01:30:25.520
Well, that's not
an argument for him doing it.

01:30:25.520 --> 01:30:28.160
That's a description
of the situation.

01:30:28.160 --> 01:30:29.440
STELLA MORIS:
Yes. I hadn't finished.

01:30:29.440 --> 01:30:31.240
- I hadn't finished.
- Oh, sorry.

01:30:31.240 --> 01:30:33.640
- Yes?
- STELLA MORIS: Um...

01:30:33.640 --> 01:30:35.960
He says he can put something
in front of Trump,

01:30:35.960 --> 01:30:38.480
you know, within 24 hours,
so if that's true...

01:30:38.480 --> 01:30:40.480
What's he going to...
I mean, what's he going to say?

01:30:40.480 --> 01:30:44.280
STELLA MORIS: And I'm not sure
we have anyone who CAN do that.

01:30:44.280 --> 01:30:46.360
JOHN SHIPTON: You don't
need to look desperate.

01:30:46.360 --> 01:30:48.040
It's not desperate.

01:30:48.040 --> 01:30:51.320
Everyone does it.
Everyone does it.

01:30:51.320 --> 01:30:53.440
JOHN SHIPTON: Anyway, uh...

01:30:53.440 --> 01:30:56.240
It...it doesn't smell good.

01:31:29.840 --> 01:31:31.080
Hi, Julian.

01:31:31.080 --> 01:31:32.280
Yep.

01:31:32.280 --> 01:31:34.080
Um, he's...he's
a little bit spooked,

01:31:34.080 --> 01:31:35.800
because they've threatened him.

01:31:35.800 --> 01:31:37.800
They're threatening his family.

01:31:37.800 --> 01:31:39.400
Um...

01:31:39.400 --> 01:31:41.440
He says he's
been called a traitor,

01:31:41.440 --> 01:31:43.840
that he should
lea...leave America,

01:31:43.840 --> 01:31:46.440
he's betraying his country...

01:31:46.440 --> 01:31:47.720
...um...

01:31:49.560 --> 01:31:53.200
...that the National Security
apparatus

01:31:53.200 --> 01:31:55.200
is pushing back very strongly,

01:31:55.200 --> 01:31:59.920
and while he was optimistic
24 hours ago or so,

01:31:59.920 --> 01:32:03.640
there are very powerful forces
that want to...

01:32:03.640 --> 01:32:05.720
...stop it from happening.

01:32:05.720 --> 01:32:09.240
And then I said,
"Well, my view is that

01:32:09.240 --> 01:32:11.000
"the legal case
is just a pretext.

01:32:11.000 --> 01:32:13.480
"They're just finding
any way they can

01:32:13.480 --> 01:32:16.760
"to keep Julian in prison for
the longest amount of time."

01:32:16.760 --> 01:32:20.560
And he said,
"I would go further than that,

01:32:20.560 --> 01:32:24.240
"and I'm afraid to say that...
that people want him dead."

01:32:33.120 --> 01:32:34.800
MAN: Mr President!

01:32:34.800 --> 01:32:38.200
You won this election
fair and square!

01:32:49.360 --> 01:32:51.200
STELLA MORIS:
So how are things there?

01:33:14.960 --> 01:33:16.440
Mmm.

01:33:36.840 --> 01:33:38.080
Mmm.

01:33:39.440 --> 01:33:40.720
JULIAN ASSANGE: Yeah.

01:33:58.240 --> 01:33:59.720
(SIGHS)

01:34:08.640 --> 01:34:12.320
JOE BIDEN: My distinguished
guests, my fellow Americans,

01:34:12.320 --> 01:34:16.200
this is America's day.

01:34:16.200 --> 01:34:19.000
This is democracy's day.

01:34:19.000 --> 01:34:23.400
A day of history and hope,
of renewal and resolve.

01:34:23.400 --> 01:34:26.440
What are the common objects
we as Americans love,

01:34:26.440 --> 01:34:29.040
that define us as Americans?

01:34:29.040 --> 01:34:30.640
I think we know.

01:34:30.640 --> 01:34:32.400
Opportunity.

01:34:32.400 --> 01:34:34.000
Security.

01:34:34.000 --> 01:34:37.880
Liberty.
Dignity, respect, honour.

01:34:37.880 --> 01:34:40.440
And, yes, the truth.

01:34:40.440 --> 01:34:42.680
(APPLAUSE)

01:34:42.680 --> 01:34:44.440
Recent weeks and months

01:34:44.440 --> 01:34:46.920
have taught us
a painful lesson.

01:34:46.920 --> 01:34:50.240
There is truth
and there are lies.

01:34:50.240 --> 01:34:54.440
Lies told for power
and for profit.

01:34:54.440 --> 01:34:57.680
And each of us has a duty
AND a responsibility,

01:34:57.680 --> 01:35:02.360
as citizens, as Americans,
and especially as leaders,

01:35:02.360 --> 01:35:05.760
to defend the truth
and defeat the lies.

01:35:26.720 --> 01:35:30.120
JOHN SHIPTON: Truth is,
uh, very vexatious, yeah.

01:35:30.120 --> 01:35:31.680
I mean...

01:35:31.680 --> 01:35:34.720
You know, you see people
writing all the time

01:35:34.720 --> 01:35:36.440
"The truth will set you free."

01:35:36.440 --> 01:35:38.240
Well, that's probably correct.

01:35:39.600 --> 01:35:42.920
But the truth may be

01:35:42.920 --> 01:35:45.440
that human beings
are collective animals

01:35:45.440 --> 01:35:48.960
and always will act
in a collective group to a...

01:35:48.960 --> 01:35:53.000
And that collective group
will be guarded and guided

01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:54.880
by an ideology,

01:35:54.880 --> 01:35:58.080
so your uttering an actuality

01:35:58.080 --> 01:36:04.720
and your favoured insight
into things as a truth is...

01:36:04.720 --> 01:36:07.480
...can be awfully misleading,
you know?

01:36:09.320 --> 01:36:11.840
I suppose that's
our only thing, you know,

01:36:11.840 --> 01:36:16.560
I really would like
to reveal to you.

01:36:16.560 --> 01:36:20.200
I don't mind the truth, yeah.

01:36:20.200 --> 01:36:22.000
The truth is, it can on...

01:36:22.000 --> 01:36:25.720
things can only get worse
for Julian.

01:36:25.720 --> 01:36:27.760
It cannot get better.

01:36:27.760 --> 01:36:31.720
That time has gone.
It's all gone away.

01:36:31.720 --> 01:36:34.200
He's 49.

01:36:34.200 --> 01:36:36.600
It's all gone.

01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:38.400
And the same for me.

01:36:38.400 --> 01:36:40.360
It's all...it's used up,

01:36:40.360 --> 01:36:42.360
'cause...well,
me more so than him,

01:36:42.360 --> 01:36:45.720
but his situation
is parlous, parlous,

01:36:45.720 --> 01:36:49.040
because it might
take his sanity as well.

01:36:51.960 --> 01:36:53.840
That's the destiny.

01:36:53.840 --> 01:36:55.920
And that's the hard bit that

01:36:55.920 --> 01:36:58.160
you guys won't face
in your filming,

01:36:58.160 --> 01:37:00.720
because it's not popular.

01:37:00.720 --> 01:37:02.040
Yeah.

01:37:02.040 --> 01:37:04.880
INTERVIEWER: You must believe
things are going to get better.

01:37:04.880 --> 01:37:07.520
I know they can't.

01:37:07.520 --> 01:37:10.080
I'm 76. What the fuck?

01:37:10.080 --> 01:37:11.680
I've got a 5-year-old daughter.

01:37:11.680 --> 01:37:12.800
INTERVIEWER: Mmm.

01:37:12.800 --> 01:37:16.120
I'm here and she's there.
How can that get better?

01:37:17.360 --> 01:37:19.440
Is there any...

01:37:19.440 --> 01:37:22.960
...way that
I can reclaim the year,

01:37:22.960 --> 01:37:25.160
and go and spend it
with my daughter,

01:37:25.160 --> 01:37:27.920
who'll never have
that year again?

01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:30.800
So it can only get worse.

01:37:30.800 --> 01:37:32.160
INTERVIEWER: I don't know.

01:37:32.160 --> 01:37:33.800
I don't think you'd be doing it
unless you thought