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[melancholy jazz clarinet]

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[upbeat funk music]
♪ All right ♪

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- [Julie] This is the
story of an education.

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My education.

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A few years ago, we moved
from New York City to

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Northampton, MA, from the
most liberal American city

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to the most liberal college town.

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Massachusetts has been dubbed
the most educated state

00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:56.600
in the US.

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About half the adults
have a BA or more.

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In just my area, there
are five universities.

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This is where smart lives,

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a paradise for a good
liberal filmmaker.

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[car engine revving]

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But then, something happened.

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My son Sam went off to college,

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and that's when my education began.

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In a first semester writing class,

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Sam wrote a story about
an anti-poaching unit

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working to protect elephants in Ghana.

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He was quickly told by his classmates

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to "write what you know."

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Okay, good advice, but Sam
wrote from the point of view

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of an African, and
according to his classmates,

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that was not okay.

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He should only use the perspective

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of a white, 18-year-old,
middle class male.

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Anything else was
cultural appropriation.

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[loping jazz bass]

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Wait, what?

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Cultural appropriation?

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Aren't you allowed to
write and say what you want

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on a college campus?

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That's called free speech,
an academic freedom, right?

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Of course, Sam was not
the only offending party

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at the local colleges.

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[loping jazz bass]

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He soon discovered cancel culture,

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a world where shame was
handed out quite readily.

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- In my opinion,
free speech on campus,

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in the classrooms that I was in,

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some of the more everyday
spaces that I was in,

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just the lunchroom,
just walking to class,

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wherever it may be, was that
free speech was something

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that seemed to be in danger.

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But, I definitely think a
smaller group of people felt

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like they couldn't express their
opinions about those things

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or express their genuine feelings

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about any number of issues.

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- Things we read or
things we talk about,

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I legitimately cannot
share how I'm feeling,

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not because I'm like a
flaming conservative or

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because my views are
just so horrendous,

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but because I know, like, if
I say something that's off,

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anyone in the class can be like,

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"Oh my god, Jocelyn, we hate her.

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"Let's cancel her."

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- [Julie] Cancel culture was creating

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an atmosphere of censorship.

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And just who was doing the canceling?

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The liberal left,

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or the conservative right?

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[upbeat funk music]

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And what about creativity
and freedom of expression?

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I had to get this figured out.

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To find out, I started on a
journey, a journey of ideas.

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I would meet students,
professors, administrators,

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and college presidents.

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I'd ask them about
free speech, what it is

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and who it's for,
and why we want it at all.

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[upbeat funk music]

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[patriotic marching music]

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From the beginning, I knew this much--

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free speech in the U.S.
began when the U.S. began,

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with the Bill of Rights in 1789.

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- The First Amendment guarantees
the right to free speech.

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It protects people who wanna
criticize the government.

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It allows vigorous political
debate without fear

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of criminal or civil repercussions.

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- Like a lot of scholars,
I think freedom of speech,

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rooted in the First Amendment,
is primarily

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to protect political speech.

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We live in a democracy.

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You can't have a democracy
without freedom of speech.

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People are going to vote.

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They need to know all the ideas

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that are relevant in the elections.

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They need to express their own ideas.

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Even more, they need to be free

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to hear everyone else's ideas

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before they make a decision.

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- If we're thinking about the
question of what the limits

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to free speech are, the example
that people always give is

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that even if you have free
speech, you don't have the right

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to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

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So for example, in the crowded
theater, if you yell "Fire!"

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and there's a stampede,
people are gonna be injured.

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Your freedom of speech
only extends so far

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when you're free speech impacts
another person negatively

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and harms them.

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- A lot of people get
punished for

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what could be called
free speech, I mean

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look at what Colin
Kaepernick had to go through

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for just kneeling.

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That's called free speech, but
I found that a lot of people

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with power weren't ready to
defend his free speech rights.

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Free speech ain't never been free.

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It's a myth that only
the privileged can enjoy.

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- So my expertise very much
relates to my biography

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of someone who
came from the States,

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grew up under communism,
where it's not just

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that the control is
against speaking your mind,

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it's also instructing you
what your mind should be,

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what you should say.

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The role of the arts and the
intellectuals was so key,

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because they were battling
for the freedom of speech

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as in being able to

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criticize the government
or publish works of art

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that were not necessarily
following a certain kind of idea

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of what's considered to be acceptable.

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- Free speech is that
First Amendment promise of

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freedom of thought
and freedom of inquiry,

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freedom to engage in
artistic activity,

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freedom to express ourselves,

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freedom to dance and sing and perform

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in a thousand different
ways that say who we are

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and what we are.

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- What I think freedom
of speech is really about

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is when the people like
me, right, wanna say,

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"My president sucks!", right,

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and I wanna write it in the
newspaper and I'm not able to,

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or I get arrested for
saying my president sucks.

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- To me, it's very
clear that free speech

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is a fundamental value of
colleges and universities.

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It's so important for inquiry,
for research, for teaching.

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- I think that colleges and
universities are supposed to be,

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at their best,
the cradle of knowledge,

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and I believe that it
would be a disservice

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to students if free
speech was obstructed.

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- Everyone comes
from a different place.

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Like, we're a community
filled with diverse people

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with diverse backgrounds.

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We don't all think alike and,
like, there's power in that.

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- And I think that,
in an educational space,

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free speech is important so
that we can get a developed

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and layered understanding
of our own beliefs

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and the beliefs of others.

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- Free speech is important 'cause--

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I think everyone mentioned it,

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but you find out where you
might be wrong yourself, right?

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Like, if you have the freedom to speak

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and someone has the
freedom to respond,

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you have the capacity
to, like, learn, right?

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- [Julie] Yes, this seemed clear.

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But then why was free speech
becoming such a subject

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of controversy on college
campuses all around the country?

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[loud explosion]
[crowd yelling]

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- [Reporter] Campus locked down as

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more than a thousand people
rallied against the appearance

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of a controversial editor from
Breitbart, Milo Yiannopoulis.

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- [Julie] And controversies
were springing up

00:09:07.920 --> 00:09:10.120
all around me in
western Massachusetts.

00:09:13.760 --> 00:09:17.080
[loping jazz bass]

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At Mount Holyoke College,
students found out their

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chief of campus police
had liked a Trump tweet

00:09:27.400 --> 00:09:29.560
supporting the border wall.

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Some students complained
it made them feel unsafe,

00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.120
even though the chief had liked
the tweet before being hired

00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:38.920
at Mount Holyoke.

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The chief apologized,
saying he would enroll

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in a training program.

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Two months later, he was gone.

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At another local college,
there was an attack

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on a white basketball
player for braiding her hair

00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:54.960
into cornrows.

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[loping jazz bass]

00:10:02.280 --> 00:10:05.440
Then there was the Halloween
party at Hampshire College,

00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:08.360
where a local Afrobeat
band called Shokazoba

00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:09.520
was supposed to play.

00:10:10.800 --> 00:10:14.240
- So Hampshire Halloween
is a fantastic event.

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It's humongous.

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It's, like, one of the
best parties in the valley.

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The week of the event,
everything seemed to be going fine,

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promotions and inviting people,

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and tons of people were going.

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And somebody made a comment,

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"Leave it to Hampshire College

00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:31.760
"to hire an all-white Afrobeat band."

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Somebody started to post
comments about our band

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as being white and white-passing,

00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:41.200
and how inappropriate it is

00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:44.760
for white and white-passing
people to participate

00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:49.760
in African art forms
and how it's just,

00:10:49.760 --> 00:10:52.960
y'know, it's plain wrong.

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And they said things about
our singer of our band

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that were very hurtful to her

00:10:58.880 --> 00:11:02.120
as a light-skinned
African American woman,

00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:05.000
and she commented, "Please
don't say these things.

00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:06.560
"This is very hurtful to me.

00:11:06.560 --> 00:11:09.080
"I've been dealing with this
sensitive issue my whole life.

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"So, if you could
please just back off."

00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.360
And then instead of backing
off and respecting her wishes,

00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:17.840
they turned it up and started
to say really nasty things

00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:22.800
like expletives and
threats of violence.

00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:28.360
The next day, I got an email
from the hype committee,

00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:30.080
canceling our performance.

00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:31.720
For the sake of argument, okay,

00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.200
people with light-colored
skin can't participate

00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:39.480
in anything coming out of
the African continent at all.

00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:43.360
Well, aren't we all as
humans ancestrally African

00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:44.560
to begin with?

00:11:44.560 --> 00:11:46.160
Aren't all instruments,

00:11:46.160 --> 00:11:48.680
haven't they all evolved
from African instruments?

00:11:48.680 --> 00:11:52.080
And hasn't all music and all
art evolved from African art?

00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:53.720
So what can we do?

00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:55.640
Are we not allowed to play jazz?

00:11:55.640 --> 00:11:58.320
Are we not allowed to
play rock and roll?

00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.400
- [Julie] The idea that the band

00:11:59.400 --> 00:12:01.520
was stealing Black culture reminded me

00:12:01.520 --> 00:12:04.200
of Sam's classmates
telling him to write

00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:05.440
"only what he knows."

00:12:07.160 --> 00:12:10.440
Isn't there a difference
between cultural appropriation

00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:12.200
and cultural appreciation?

00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:18.200
- The history of art is the
history of appropriation.

00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.160
There's no such thing
as not taking from it.

00:12:22.160 --> 00:12:26.240
You can take Native American
Kwakiutl art

00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:28.480
and get someone to point out to you

00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.520
that actually it came
across the Bering Straits,

00:12:31.520 --> 00:12:33.680
and actually
it's the same patterns

00:12:33.680 --> 00:12:37.080
that you find in
prehistoric Asian art.

00:12:38.640 --> 00:12:40.760
- [Julie] As a proud
card-carrying liberal,

00:12:40.760 --> 00:12:43.760
I was thinking how strange this was.

00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:46.400
I mean, conservatives
being the good guys,

00:12:46.400 --> 00:12:48.800
noble defenders of free speech,

00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:51.560
while liberals hate on
white basketball players

00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:54.720
wearing braids and Afrobeat bands.

00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:57.040
Suddenly, it seemed like
everyone was weighing in

00:12:57.040 --> 00:12:59.360
on free speech and cancel culture.

00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:00.920
[glass shattering]
Everyone.

00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:05.360
- I don't agree that you,
when you become students

00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:07.280
at colleges, have to be

00:13:07.280 --> 00:13:10.000
coddled and protected from
different points of view.

00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:15.360
- I don't want you to
be safe ideologically.

00:13:16.400 --> 00:13:19.920
I don't want you to
be safe emotionally.

00:13:19.920 --> 00:13:21.440
I want you to be strong.

00:13:22.880 --> 00:13:24.640
That's different.

00:13:24.640 --> 00:13:28.200
I'm not going to pave
the jungle for you.

00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:33.200
Put on some boots and learn
how to deal with adversity.

00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:36.880
- [Julie] College
administrators had to figure out

00:13:36.880 --> 00:13:38.920
whether to intervene.

00:13:38.920 --> 00:13:42.440
I had just read Safe Enough
Spaces, a book by Michael Roth,

00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:44.480
President of Wesleyan University.

00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:47.840
This was someone I had to talk to.

00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:49.680
- Here in the office a
few years ago, a group

00:13:49.680 --> 00:13:53.280
of African American students
came to see me, very offended

00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:55.400
that there was an
affirmative action bake sale

00:13:55.400 --> 00:13:58.080
in the Usdan University Center.

00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:03.080
It was a national thing that
conservative websites created,

00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:05.960
and some students here took
it up, and when they did

00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:08.080
they said, "If you're
African American,

00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:09.880
"it only cost 50 cents
for that cupcake.

00:14:09.880 --> 00:14:11.200
"If you're white, it's a dollar."

00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:13.080
And the students came to
see me, they were outraged,

00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:15.840
as well they should have
been, and they said,

00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:17.200
"We want you to stop those people."

00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:18.400
I said, well, "I'm sorry.

00:14:18.400 --> 00:14:20.760
"I know you're outraged,
and I do think it's racist."

00:14:20.760 --> 00:14:22.840
And actually, the people doing
it were students of color.

00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:24.160
They complicated it a little bit.

00:14:24.160 --> 00:14:25.200
I said, "You should talk to them,

00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:27.760
"you should argue with
them, but I don't think this

00:14:27.760 --> 00:14:29.720
"is the kind of thing where
I have to protect you from

00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:30.560
"that bake sale.

00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:31.400
"It's there.

00:14:31.400 --> 00:14:32.240
"It's political theater.

00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.200
"That's what it is.

00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:35.560
"It's political theater.

00:14:35.560 --> 00:14:36.800
"Figure out how to talk to them."

00:14:36.800 --> 00:14:39.200
- But the reality of the
situation is that students need

00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.000
to be prepared to face
them in the real world.

00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:44.760
And in the real world nobody
cares about your feelings,

00:14:44.760 --> 00:14:46.720
nobody's going to coddle you.

00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:49.160
What if your employer
has this odious opinion

00:14:49.160 --> 00:14:50.200
that you disagree with?

00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:51.040
Can you quit?

00:14:51.040 --> 00:14:51.840
Maybe not.

00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:54.400
Maybe your financial
situation isn't that way.

00:14:54.400 --> 00:14:56.560
So even if you are
uncomfortable in a classroom,

00:14:56.560 --> 00:14:58.960
you have to deal with these opinions,

00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:01.640
and it will actually
strengthen your position.

00:15:01.640 --> 00:15:04.720
- My view has
always been that, y'know,

00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:06.560
are people upset in my classes?

00:15:06.560 --> 00:15:07.760
I hope so.

00:15:07.760 --> 00:15:09.280
Otherwise, I'm not doing my job.

00:15:09.280 --> 00:15:10.920
I hope they're
intellectually challenged,

00:15:10.920 --> 00:15:14.000
I hope that they're
confronted with ideas

00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:15.400
that they haven't been
confronted with before

00:15:15.400 --> 00:15:17.720
and haven't been forced
to deal with things.

00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:19.240
And whether that causes some kind

00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:20.560
of intellectual dissonance,

00:15:20.560 --> 00:15:23.160
that is exactly what
universities should do.

00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:26.080
But I think universities, in some way,

00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:27.600
have gone the other direction on this

00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:30.600
in that some people
will not say things

00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:34.480
because they feel afraid that
what they're gonna say is,

00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.720
y'know, it's gonna be
shut down as being racist.

00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:41.600
- [Julie] In 2019, President
Trump signed an executive order

00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:43.160
on campus free speech.

00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:47.600
- [Reporter 2] President Trump
signing an executive order

00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:48.960
on campus free speech.

00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.000
Those student activists there
have said that they believe

00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:53.600
that it's been
silenced on campus.

00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:57.440
It's unclear exactly how this
will be enforced in colleges

00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:58.360
around the country.

00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:02.120
- So you can't have a democracy
without freedom of speech.

00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:05.400
On the other hand, you can't
have a society of any kind

00:16:05.400 --> 00:16:08.720
without some kind of
regulation of speech.

00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:12.440
You can't have hospitals
with doctors breaking out

00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:14.320
into political orations in the middle

00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:16.640
of sensitive surgeries.

00:16:16.640 --> 00:16:21.480
Likewise, in the academy,
you can't have learning

00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:24.880
without certain
professional standards.

00:16:24.880 --> 00:16:28.160
So an engineering
professor who speaks out

00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:31.640
against Donald Trump
in an engineering class

00:16:31.640 --> 00:16:34.120
maybe can do that once.

00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.080
But if you do it over and over again,

00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:40.200
even the American Association
of University Professors,

00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:44.240
an organization whose job
is to protect the rights

00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:47.640
of academics,
even the AAUP would admit

00:16:47.640 --> 00:16:51.200
that violates the spirit
of academic freedom.

00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:54.080
So, there's something
guiding academic freedom

00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:56.080
which is not really democracy.

00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:57.760
It's the production of knowledge.

00:16:57.760 --> 00:16:59.000
It's education.

00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.680
- [Reporter 3] At Yale
University, a faculty member

00:17:03.680 --> 00:17:05.760
is yelled at by students.

00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:13.800
- [Reporter 3] The reason?

00:17:13.800 --> 00:17:16.680
His wife, also a Yale instructor,

00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:19.560
had suggested students should be free

00:17:19.560 --> 00:17:23.160
to wear any Halloween
costume they choose,

00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.520
even if slightly offensive.

00:17:25.520 --> 00:17:27.120
- [Julie] At Middlebury College,

00:17:27.120 --> 00:17:30.160
over 100 students
protested the appearance

00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.840
of Charles Murray, a political
scientist who was invited

00:17:33.840 --> 00:17:35.520
to speak at the student center.

00:17:35.520 --> 00:17:37.280
- [Protestors] Charles Murray, go away!

00:17:37.280 --> 00:17:39.040
Racist, sexist, anti-gay!

00:17:39.040 --> 00:17:41.080
Charles Murray, go away!

00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:43.160
Racist, sexist, anti-gay!

00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:45.160
Charles Murray, go away!

00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:47.240
Racist, sexist, anti-gay!

00:17:48.520 --> 00:17:50.880
- [Julie] Liberal students
at Middlebury were triggered

00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:55.000
by Murray's racist reputation,
but closer to home,

00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:58.200
another controversy erupted at UMass.

00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:02.240
This time, it was the left wing
who wanted freedom of speech

00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.440
and conservatives
wanting to cancel it.

00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.280
- There was an event that was
scheduled to occur on May 4th

00:18:08.280 --> 00:18:11.600
at UMass, and it was
called "Not Backing Down:

00:18:11.600 --> 00:18:14.840
Israel, Free Speech & the
Battle for Palestinian Rights."

00:18:14.840 --> 00:18:18.240
It was organized by the
Media Education Foundation

00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:19.960
and its founder, Sut Jhally,

00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:21.640
and it was going to feature speakers

00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:25.800
including Linda Sarsour,
renowned Palestinian activist,

00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:29.280
Mark Lamont Hill,
commentator and a professor

00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:30.760
and an activist himself.

00:18:30.760 --> 00:18:33.800
- What really made the
event really, you know,

00:18:33.800 --> 00:18:36.320
to take off was the threat by someone

00:18:36.320 --> 00:18:38.320
to stop it taking place.

00:18:38.320 --> 00:18:40.840
That's actually when we
realized we were onto something.

00:18:40.840 --> 00:18:45.360
When someone is so threatened
by having one little

00:18:45.360 --> 00:18:48.480
event at a university
that actually dares

00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:51.080
to speak about the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict

00:18:51.080 --> 00:18:52.720
in a different way,

00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.240
and the threat is
immediately a legal threat,

00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:58.560
that tells you something
about how important the

00:18:58.560 --> 00:19:01.920
suppression of free speech
is to make sure

00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.040
that certain viewpoints are not heard.

00:19:04.040 --> 00:19:07.040
- We will not back down,
we will not be silenced,

00:19:07.040 --> 00:19:09.480
we will not be intimidated,
we will continue

00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:10.720
to speak truth to power.

00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.880
- And I was like, what is this?

00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.880
Like, not backing down,
it sounds very forceful.

00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:18.680
It sounds a little aggressive.

00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.280
So I was like, what's
happening on this campus?

00:19:21.280 --> 00:19:25.040
- One of the attempted
criticisms of the event was,

00:19:25.040 --> 00:19:28.960
well, there's no one presenting
the Israeli perspective.

00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:30.760
The event wasn't billed as a debate.

00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:33.920
The event was billed as
an educational opportunity

00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:37.160
to hear from people who had
experienced the censorship

00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:39.280
that many people who
are in the movement

00:19:39.280 --> 00:19:41.440
for Palestinian rights experience.

00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.080
- Was there any threat
of physical harm?

00:19:44.080 --> 00:19:48.320
Of course not, but people
were, if they felt threatened,

00:19:48.320 --> 00:19:51.920
is because this worldview
that they had been inculcated

00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:56.080
with about Israel, there was
now suddenly an alternative

00:19:56.080 --> 00:19:59.000
viewpoint that people
were paying attention to.

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:01.760
And of course the
attempt to suppress it,

00:20:01.760 --> 00:20:03.800
the attempt totally backfired,

00:20:03.800 --> 00:20:06.080
because it gave so
much more publicity.

00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.600
So, they were threatened
by multiple voices.

00:20:10.600 --> 00:20:13.040
They were threatened
that their monopoly

00:20:13.040 --> 00:20:17.840
on this perspective
was gonna be destroyed.

00:20:17.840 --> 00:20:19.880
- [Julie] While there was
no threat of physical harm

00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:24.120
from the event at UMass,
what about emotional harm?

00:20:25.800 --> 00:20:28.800
[loping jazz bass]

00:20:31.840 --> 00:20:35.120
- I know that it's all
about academic freedom.

00:20:35.120 --> 00:20:39.080
Free speech, talking about
Israel, talking about Palestine,

00:20:39.080 --> 00:20:40.240
talking about human rights,

00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.200
like, these are things
that we should talk about.

00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.440
And I'm all for talking
about them in open dialogue,

00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:49.200
in real conversation, in a place

00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.920
where you're gonna have
discourse that's nuanced

00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.960
and not just straight,
like, one-sided bias.

00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.320
I felt unsafe sitting in
the room during the panel.

00:21:00.320 --> 00:21:02.200
When I walked out of that event,

00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:06.360
I didn't have a panic attack
like my friend did, actually.

00:21:06.360 --> 00:21:08.160
I needed to be away
from all those people.

00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.200
I, like, could not be there anymore,

00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:11.880
and then I needed to just go cry,

00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:14.760
because I needed, like,
time to like process

00:21:14.760 --> 00:21:18.200
what I had just heard and,
like, really, like, understand

00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:19.280
what was happening.

00:21:19.280 --> 00:21:21.280
It wasn't just opposition.

00:21:21.280 --> 00:21:22.800
It was hate.

00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:27.960
- [Julie] Hate.

00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.360
You hear about hate speech a lot.

00:21:30.360 --> 00:21:32.320
But what is it exactly,

00:21:32.320 --> 00:21:34.000
and who gets to define it?

00:21:36.080 --> 00:21:38.720
- If we're trying
to define free speech,

00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.400
free speech is something
that should lead to inclusion

00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.920
and allowing people to, like, relish

00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:47.600
in, like, each other's ideas.

00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:51.560
And hate speech quite
literally goes against that,

00:21:51.560 --> 00:21:54.520
because you're alienating someone.

00:21:54.520 --> 00:21:57.480
You're attacking someone's beliefs.

00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:01.040
- Point of free
speech is to disagree.

00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:05.560
If you look at, I dunno,
communist regimes

00:22:05.560 --> 00:22:09.040
which don't allow free
speech, the reason behind that

00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:12.400
is for citizens to agree
with the government,

00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.040
and I think it's okay to be,
like, different and diverse

00:22:16.040 --> 00:22:18.800
and not agree with
other people's opinions.

00:22:18.800 --> 00:22:22.760
With hate speech, although
it might not be welcomed,

00:22:22.760 --> 00:22:25.040
it's still a form of free speech,

00:22:25.040 --> 00:22:28.720
and I think it still
should be allowed.

00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:31.400
- But hate speech is,
like, quite literally,

00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:33.600
like, putting down another group.

00:22:33.600 --> 00:22:37.120
Like, I think that goes
more than, "Oh yeah,

00:22:37.120 --> 00:22:38.480
"we just aren disagreeing."

00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.680
'Cause, like, let's say
someone calls me the N word,

00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:46.360
like, that's not oh, like
we're in disagreement.

00:22:46.360 --> 00:22:48.800
That's, like, you're
directly attacking me.

00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:51.560
Like, you're directly
attacking my identity.

00:22:51.560 --> 00:22:53.680
- Free speech is equalizing,

00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:55.600
and that's why
it's so important,

00:22:55.600 --> 00:22:58.040
because it shows
both sides of the story.

00:22:58.040 --> 00:22:59.880
What does hate speech accomplish?

00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:01.120
What is it furthering?

00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:02.400
What is it doing?

00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:05.480
How is it making the
world a better place?

00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:09.600
To engage in tools of oppression,
like saying the N word

00:23:09.600 --> 00:23:13.520
or attacking someone for
their personal identity

00:23:13.520 --> 00:23:16.160
or to dehumanize or demean someone,

00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:17.480
you're not furthering the dialogue.

00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:18.400
You're not accomplishing anything.

00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:20.880
You're not helping anyone.

00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:24.560
Free speech is supposed
to open up doors,

00:23:24.560 --> 00:23:26.520
and it's not supposed to close them.

00:23:26.520 --> 00:23:29.480
- Difficulty with hate speech
is someone has to define it,

00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:31.600
because whoever has the
power to decide that,

00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:34.600
in some sense,
has the power to decide

00:23:34.600 --> 00:23:36.560
what thought is perpetuated.

00:23:36.560 --> 00:23:38.240
I don't know if it's
always as simple as saying,

00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:41.840
"Oh well, hate speech
shouldn't be allowed

00:23:41.840 --> 00:23:44.440
"and free speech should,"
because, like, who defines that?

00:23:45.760 --> 00:23:47.880
- [Julie] But if it's so hard
to figure out what counts

00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.040
as hate speech,
how can we ever figure out

00:23:51.040 --> 00:23:53.600
what to do about it?

00:23:53.600 --> 00:23:56.280
- When we began the western
Massachusetts office,

00:23:56.280 --> 00:23:58.880
when we opened the western
Massachusetts office

00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:03.880
of the American Civil
Liberties Union in 1987,

00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:07.960
the Republican Club at the
University of Massachusetts,

00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:12.960
along with Students for
America, invited Paul Cameron

00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:17.040
to the UMass campus
during Gay Pride Week.

00:24:19.320 --> 00:24:24.080
Paul Cameron was the leading
anti-gay speaker and advocate

00:24:24.080 --> 00:24:27.960
in the United States at that
time, and received a call

00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:30.360
from these groups,
Students for America

00:24:30.360 --> 00:24:34.240
and the Republican Club at
UMass, and they explained

00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:36.560
that their free speech rights
were being infringed upon

00:24:36.560 --> 00:24:39.440
because the university
was preventing them

00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.200
from having Paul
Cameron come and speak

00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:43.640
during Gay Pride Week.

00:24:44.560 --> 00:24:49.040
Now, the excuse that
the university gave

00:24:49.040 --> 00:24:51.000
to the Republican Club

00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:54.680
and the other conservative
organization was

00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:57.560
that they needed to pay
for their own security.

00:24:58.600 --> 00:25:01.320
And I think it was really clear,

00:25:01.320 --> 00:25:03.480
from a First Amendment point of view,

00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:07.480
he should be on the campus
if he has been invited

00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:09.320
by a recognized student organization,

00:25:09.320 --> 00:25:11.240
and any other recognized
student organization

00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:13.840
could have virtually any
other speaker they wanted.

00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:18.280
So, why can the university
decide who is allowed

00:25:18.280 --> 00:25:22.240
to speak on campus and make a
content-based determination?

00:25:25.040 --> 00:25:29.080
What happened as a result
of our intervention,

00:25:29.080 --> 00:25:31.880
there was the largest
gay rights demonstration

00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:34.880
in the history of western
Massachusetts, which greeted him.

00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:40.000
There were editorials
and other expression

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.440
in the UMass Collegian
saying, "You are not a person

00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:48.720
"who is really welcome here,
but you can speak here."

00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.640
There were various kinds of
counseling sessions set up

00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.160
for those persons who were
going to be offended and hurt

00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:59.320
or put in some kind of
psychological distress

00:25:59.320 --> 00:26:01.840
because of his being on campus.

00:26:01.840 --> 00:26:06.440
There were 140 men who
went to hear his talk

00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:08.440
and wanted to ask him questions

00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:10.680
that his supporters would not.

00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:12.680
And they asked really
difficult questions

00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:16.080
and they made him look like a
fool, and they made him look,

00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:18.200
as I understand it, as a hater,

00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:23.200
because he was there espousing
a position that persons

00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:27.680
with AIDS and actually anyone
with HIV should be quarantined

00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:29.200
from the rest of society.

00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:34.760
That event at UMass was galvanizing

00:26:34.760 --> 00:26:37.520
for the LGBTQ community here
in western Massachusetts,

00:26:37.520 --> 00:26:39.760
and it wouldn't have happened
if he had been censored

00:26:39.760 --> 00:26:41.960
and prevented from
being on the campus.

00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.040
And I tell that story

00:26:44.040 --> 00:26:47.680
because I think it does
represent the paradigm about

00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:50.600
how bad speech and racist
speech and evil speech

00:26:50.600 --> 00:26:53.200
and homophobic speech can
be met with righteous speech

00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:55.480
and good speech and more
speech and more speech

00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:58.560
and more speech until
the hatred is wrung out.

00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:00.960
And good speech works.

00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.120
Does this paradigm
work every time? No.

00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:06.320
Does it work most of the
time in the United States?

00:27:06.320 --> 00:27:07.120
Yes.

00:27:08.320 --> 00:27:11.040
- [Julie] In an attempt to
build a sense of community,

00:27:11.040 --> 00:27:14.240
some colleges began using
a public discussion app

00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:16.720
called Fizz.

00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:18.600
- The Fizz app has come to campus.

00:27:18.600 --> 00:27:22.240
And so this app is effectively
an anonymous platform

00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:24.040
where people are free to
share their mind,

00:27:24.040 --> 00:27:28.480
and then as a user you're
able to comment, respond,

00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:33.120
react positively or negatively
with, like, an up vote

00:27:33.120 --> 00:27:34.760
or a down vote, for example.

00:27:34.760 --> 00:27:36.520
And it's definitely led to some

00:27:36.520 --> 00:27:39.120
very controversial
cases where people are

00:27:39.120 --> 00:27:42.480
sharing ideas in ways, in forms,

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:47.480
that could be considered
hurtful to some specific people

00:27:47.520 --> 00:27:50.320
and also to groups as a whole.

00:27:50.320 --> 00:27:52.800
- Well, personally,
I hate the app.

00:27:52.800 --> 00:27:56.560
I think it is so interesting

00:27:56.560 --> 00:28:00.080
because it has revealed a lot
of things about the community,

00:28:00.080 --> 00:28:02.960
and so now on this app people
have the freedom to say things

00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:06.160
and I think it's taken
free speech to a new level.

00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:08.000
It's really dangerous
when people aren't able

00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.760
to, like, put a face to the
name or, like, a name to

00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:13.120
the comment that they're saying.

00:28:13.120 --> 00:28:17.200
- I personally think that
apps like Fizz that center

00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:21.160
around anonymity are
a recipe for disaster,

00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:24.640
because you're able to hide
behind a screen instead

00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:26.320
of owning up to your words.

00:28:26.320 --> 00:28:27.720
And isn't that the point

00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.400
of having opinions, to be able to say,

00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.080
"This is what I believe,
and I'm not ashamed of it"?

00:28:34.120 --> 00:28:35.600
- I do think that Fizz is necessary,

00:28:35.600 --> 00:28:39.320
because it allows
a platform for students

00:28:39.320 --> 00:28:42.680
to share their
actual and real opinions

00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:45.920
without fearing being
slandered for them

00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:50.440
or feeling this societal
pressure to think a certain way

00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:52.080
or feel a certain way.

00:28:52.080 --> 00:28:57.080
- But my thing with Fizz is
that, like, you're just hiding.

00:28:57.120 --> 00:28:59.760
Like, you're not taking
accountability for your words.

00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:02.440
Like, you're saying something knowing

00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:04.000
that it's gonna have an impact

00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:05.920
but, like, it's just out there now

00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:10.960
and, like, you don't have to
face any type of repercussion

00:29:11.120 --> 00:29:14.320
for, like, the harm that you're doing.

00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:16.840
- [Julie] So the app
was used so people

00:29:16.840 --> 00:29:19.800
could speak their minds
without being canceled,

00:29:19.800 --> 00:29:22.280
but is it so bad to be canceled?

00:29:22.280 --> 00:29:23.640
What does it feel like?

00:29:24.760 --> 00:29:27.840
- So, I've actually,
like, been canceled, like,

00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:29.000
several times at this school.

00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:34.640
So, one of the times,
it was on Halloween.

00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:38.280
One of my Asian friends,
he gave me this, like,

00:29:38.280 --> 00:29:40.000
baby face mask to wear,

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.920
sort of like this, like, crying baby.

00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:46.080
And so I go to this party, and
then two people go up to me

00:29:46.080 --> 00:29:49.360
and they're like, "You're
offending all my Asian friends.

00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:51.640
"You're being racist towards Asians."

00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:53.000
My Asian friends were all confused.

00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:54.200
They're like, "What?

00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:56.800
"How is he being racist?
Like, what is happening?"

00:29:56.800 --> 00:29:59.480
So I was like, "No, I'm not
gonna, like, take off the mask.

00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:01.520
"Like, I have my own right.

00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:02.840
"Like, this is Halloween.

00:30:02.840 --> 00:30:04.720
"I get to choose my own costume.

00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:06.080
"I'm not being racist."

00:30:06.080 --> 00:30:08.840
Like, the whole party group
around me, like, started turning

00:30:08.840 --> 00:30:12.440
against me until like they all
sort of, like, kicked me out.

00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:14.840
[door slamming]

00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.120
- [Julie] Then an event at
Smith College got me thinking

00:30:18.120 --> 00:30:21.080
about free speech and
the role of the press.

00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.520
Should students be able to
place conditions on reporters,

00:30:25.520 --> 00:30:26.840
or even cancel them?

00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:30.800
- So, the Black Lives Matter
issue at Smith was happening

00:30:30.800 --> 00:30:32.800
all over college
campuses at that time.

00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:38.520
So what Smith did was they
decided to have this protest

00:30:38.520 --> 00:30:40.880
and then say, "We don't
want the press to come

00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:43.840
"unless they can state
what side they're on,"

00:30:43.840 --> 00:30:45.720
what you stood for.

00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:49.600
I got in, but I had said very
clearly to the PR person,

00:30:49.600 --> 00:30:51.440
at that person, "I'm not doing that.

00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:55.720
"I refuse to state what side
I'm on at all, but I'm here,

00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:57.800
"and I will cover this event."

00:30:57.800 --> 00:31:00.360
There were press then
that were not allowed in,

00:31:00.360 --> 00:31:02.320
like MassLive and The Republican,

00:31:02.320 --> 00:31:04.960
and some other people
were not allowed in.

00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:09.960
I think it's really
important for neutrality to

00:31:11.360 --> 00:31:13.280
be a part of what we do.

00:31:13.280 --> 00:31:17.520
To declare what side we're on is

00:31:17.520 --> 00:31:21.120
taking away the trust, I feel like,

00:31:21.120 --> 00:31:24.080
that we're asking our
communities to have in us.

00:31:24.080 --> 00:31:27.040
And I'm just not sure
they thought that through,

00:31:27.040 --> 00:31:31.120
the students thought through
what they really want

00:31:31.120 --> 00:31:34.520
out of the media, and
what is important to them

00:31:34.520 --> 00:31:35.840
in terms of their values.

00:31:35.840 --> 00:31:37.280
And they have every right

00:31:37.280 --> 00:31:39.760
to hold us accountable, absolutely,

00:31:39.760 --> 00:31:42.160
and to ask those really,
really hard questions.

00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:44.080
And we have made mistakes,

00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:45.440
there is no doubt.

00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:48.320
But, I think asking us to let go

00:31:48.320 --> 00:31:51.840
of neutrality is a huge mistake.

00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:55.920
It's not that I don't have
opinions or that I don't,

00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:59.320
in my living room,
take a stand on something,

00:31:59.320 --> 00:32:03.760
or that I don't believe in
something being wrong or right.

00:32:03.760 --> 00:32:07.400
It's that I am committed to
telling both sides of something.

00:32:08.280 --> 00:32:10.800
- [Julie] One thing
I still didn't get--

00:32:10.800 --> 00:32:12.920
why is the topic of cancel culture

00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:15.120
so pervasive now?

00:32:15.120 --> 00:32:16.680
It's everywhere.

00:32:17.800 --> 00:32:21.400
Psychologist Jonathan
Haidt of NYU tells us

00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:24.480
that many college kids today
have been overprotected

00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:26.960
by helicopter parents.

00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:29.640
Kids have been shielded
from any challenges,

00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.080
and never learned to be resilient,

00:32:32.080 --> 00:32:34.560
so anything they disagree
with must be wrong

00:32:34.560 --> 00:32:36.400
and they have the right to cancel it.

00:32:37.320 --> 00:32:39.560
Everyone I knew was reading his book,

00:32:39.560 --> 00:32:41.520
The Coddling of the American Mind.

00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:46.120
- We took this essential
period of childhood from

00:32:46.120 --> 00:32:48.920
about 8 to 12, when
kids throughout history

00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:53.080
have practiced independence,
have gotten into adventures,

00:32:53.080 --> 00:32:55.760
have made rafts and floated
down the Mississippi River.

00:32:55.760 --> 00:32:58.000
We took that period and
said, "You don't get

00:32:58.000 --> 00:32:59.600
"to practice independence
until it's too late,"

00:32:59.600 --> 00:33:01.240
until that period is over.

00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:03.760
Now, a couple years
before you go to college,

00:33:03.760 --> 00:33:06.320
now you can go outside.
"Oh okay, go off to college,"

00:33:06.320 --> 00:33:07.680
and a lot of them are not ready.

00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.800
They're just not used
to being independent.

00:33:09.800 --> 00:33:12.320
When they get to college,
they need more help.

00:33:12.320 --> 00:33:14.400
They're asking adults for more help.

00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:15.320
"Protect me from this,

00:33:15.320 --> 00:33:18.480
"punish him for saying that,
protect me from that book."

00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:20.800
- [Julie] And there's another
basic fact of modern life

00:33:20.800 --> 00:33:24.880
that makes it easy to
cancel people: social media.

00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:26.800
- I think what I'm
trying to add here is,

00:33:26.800 --> 00:33:31.600
as a social psychologist,
I study morality and politics,

00:33:31.600 --> 00:33:35.000
and I've become a big fan

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:38.000
of the philosopher John
Stuart Mill, who said,

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:39.680
"He who knows only his own side

00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:42.160
"of the case knows little of that."

00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:44.400
That is, in order to
really understand anything,

00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:46.200
we have to look at it from
multiple perspectives.

00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:47.920
We have to have different
viewpoints pushing

00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:49.080
against each other.

00:33:49.080 --> 00:33:50.920
That's what we do in universities,

00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:54.280
that's what we've always done
in my career as a professor

00:33:54.280 --> 00:33:58.240
until around 2014, 2015,
and all of a sudden

00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.040
it became much more
hazardous to question.

00:34:01.040 --> 00:34:04.840
If you questioned, if you
even tweeted about a study

00:34:04.840 --> 00:34:08.160
that challenged the received
wisdom on race, gender,

00:34:08.160 --> 00:34:11.440
transgender, there were a
couple of sacred issues,

00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:14.880
if you even suggested that
there was another side,

00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:17.800
huge social sanctions would
rain down on you on Twitter

00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:19.440
and other platforms.

00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:20.840
And here's the key thing.

00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.480
When people feel even a
little bit of intimidation,

00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:25.280
when they think, "If I speak up,

00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:27.920
"terrible things are gonna
happen to me of unknown size."

00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:29.320
That could be nothing.

00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:31.640
It could be a thousand tweets.

00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:34.280
It's that little bit of intimidation,

00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:36.880
that's what makes people go silent.

00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:40.360
- The class I teach at
Smith is formally called

00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:44.080
"White Supremacy
in the Age of Trump,"

00:34:44.080 --> 00:34:48.160
and within that is buried
a strong module called

00:34:48.160 --> 00:34:50.400
"Calling In the Calling Out Culture."

00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:51.720
And I started this work

00:34:51.720 --> 00:34:54.080
about six years ago when I noticed

00:34:54.080 --> 00:34:58.800
how unbelievably mean
people were on social media,

00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:01.640
and I'm sure people are
saying things online

00:35:01.640 --> 00:35:05.840
that they would not say
to people to their face.

00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:09.320
I started asking young
people, "What's going on?

00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:13.200
"Do y'all talk like
this all the time?"

00:35:13.200 --> 00:35:15.200
And a young woman named Marissa said,

00:35:15.200 --> 00:35:17.160
"Oh, you mean the call-out culture?"

00:35:18.080 --> 00:35:20.960
- The fact that you can
send messages, content,

00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.440
whatever it might be,
instantaneously, is something

00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:28.320
that's changing the way
that we have conversations

00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:30.640
with one another in
a very obvious sense.

00:35:30.640 --> 00:35:35.680
A lot of the time, I feel
afraid to say what I'm thinking,

00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:39.800
afraid to, even if it's
not to take a stand

00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:42.880
in class on a particular
part of a text,

00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.680
whatever it might be,
just to ask a question

00:35:45.680 --> 00:35:48.800
so that we're all kind
of challenging ourselves

00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:51.680
to think a little bit differently,

00:35:51.680 --> 00:35:55.840
because I'm afraid of what
will happen in the classroom

00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.640
and I know that it won't
stay in the classroom.

00:35:59.640 --> 00:36:01.120
- It feels very hard for you,

00:36:01.120 --> 00:36:02.800
'cause you don't wanna end
up on a TikTok somewhere

00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:04.800
where it's like,
"That kid got expelled

00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:08.080
"for, like, saying, like,
anti- or transphobic things,"

00:36:08.080 --> 00:36:09.320
when really they were just curious

00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:10.240
and they were just like--

00:36:10.240 --> 00:36:11.960
- Or they didn't know.

00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:13.400
- Yeah, "I don't
understand what this is."

00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:16.680
- [Julie] So are coddled students

00:36:16.680 --> 00:36:19.320
and the dominant social
media the only reasons

00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:20.760
for cancel culture?

00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.960
Or could there be another factor--

00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:27.720
a proper respect for
historically oppressed groups?

00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:30.880
Maybe cancel culture
is just an attempt

00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:32.840
to right the wrongs of history.

00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:42.280
[upbeat funk music]

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:46.120
- Many smart students,
especially in the humanities

00:36:46.120 --> 00:36:50.560
and social sciences, have
realized that free speech talk

00:36:50.560 --> 00:36:53.240
is often a cover to protect
people with privilege,

00:36:53.240 --> 00:36:54.880
and they realize this
because they grew up

00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:57.120
after Citizens United.

00:36:57.120 --> 00:37:00.080
They grew up in a world in
which the Supreme Court,

00:37:00.080 --> 00:37:03.560
by the narrowest of margins,
justified the use of money

00:37:03.560 --> 00:37:04.960
to control politics.

00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:07.720
We all knew that money
influenced politics,

00:37:07.720 --> 00:37:09.920
but they said, "Go for it."

00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:12.440
Free speech means if you have money,

00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:15.600
you can spend as much
money as you want

00:37:15.600 --> 00:37:17.280
to get your guy elected.

00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:19.640
And our students grew up realizing

00:37:19.640 --> 00:37:24.120
that this was a sham, that
power and amplification

00:37:24.120 --> 00:37:26.920
of speech matters a great deal.

00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:29.400
And so, some people
don't get to be heard.

00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.040
They have "freedom of speech,"

00:37:31.040 --> 00:37:32.840
but they actually have no power.

00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:34.440
They have no amplification.

00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:37.600
- There's a changing demographic
in our classrooms, right,

00:37:37.600 --> 00:37:42.400
so that it used to be that
when you talked about things

00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:44.880
that impacted Black people,
you were talking about it

00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.840
as sort of a
hypothetical, right?

00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:50.840
[loping jazz bass]

00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:58.720
- Black students express
some of the greatest concern

00:37:58.720 --> 00:38:02.320
in terms of
ability to speak freely,

00:38:03.320 --> 00:38:07.120
and that's sometimes
contrary, I think,

00:38:07.120 --> 00:38:11.520
to the narrative that
you might hear on,

00:38:11.520 --> 00:38:13.800
let's say Fox News.

00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:18.160
There are greater numbers
of students of color,

00:38:18.160 --> 00:38:23.160
of students from poor communities
who are coming to campus,

00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:28.880
and that that real need and desire

00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:32.720
to welcome those students,
which is critically important,

00:38:32.720 --> 00:38:36.640
has created, in some cases,
a backlash.

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.320
- [Julie] Hate mail sent to
Black students?

00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.640
What was making white people so angry?

00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:48.360
Jesse Rhodes, a UMass
political scientist, says,

00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:50.600
"A broad conclusion of our findings

00:38:50.600 --> 00:38:53.360
"is that a significant
fraction of Americans,

00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:56.920
"particularly native whites,
are feeling very anxious

00:38:56.920 --> 00:39:00.200
"and uncertain about demographic
and political changes

00:39:00.200 --> 00:39:01.720
"in the United States."

00:39:03.680 --> 00:39:07.200
Maybe that's why students
want to cancel speech.

00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:09.240
Many of them grew up in
a world where they had

00:39:09.240 --> 00:39:12.040
to watch violence
done to their people.

00:39:12.040 --> 00:39:14.680
Black students watched George Floyd,

00:39:14.680 --> 00:39:18.400
with a knee on his neck,
gasping for air.

00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:21.840
Gay students watched a hundred
people machine gunned down

00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:23.880
at a nightclub in Florida.

00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:28.960
Women watched women's rights
abandoned in the courts

00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:31.320
just as the legal door
was being slammed shut

00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:34.680
on affirmative action
and Black history.

00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:39.560
So maybe cancel culture's
about that too,

00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:42.800
about fairness in the future

00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:46.760
and the hope to create a world
where everyone is included.

00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:48.440
[pensive instrumental music]

00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:51.720
But, how do you make a
university safe for everyone?

00:39:54.080 --> 00:39:57.680
Some thought the solution
was to create safe spaces

00:39:57.680 --> 00:40:01.000
and preface certain
topics with warnings.

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:02.280
Trigger warnings.

00:40:04.080 --> 00:40:05.920
- Trigger warnings,
I don't use the word,

00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:09.160
but I think it's perfectly
appropriate, actually,

00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:11.760
to give students a heads up.

00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:14.840
I teach a course on
film and philosophy,

00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:17.320
and at the beginning
of the class, I say,

00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:19.720
"Tonight, we're gonna watch a
film about the extermination

00:40:19.720 --> 00:40:23.160
"of the Jews in Europe, and
it is unbelievably brutal.

00:40:23.160 --> 00:40:26.440
"It is just 30 minutes, and
it'll tear your guts out.

00:40:26.440 --> 00:40:28.640
"I'm sorry, but it's
a very important film.

00:40:28.640 --> 00:40:31.000
"Next week, we have a
film about child abuse.

00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:32.560
"The following week we
have a film about a guy

00:40:32.560 --> 00:40:34.160
"who's convicted of
murder inappropriately,

00:40:34.160 --> 00:40:35.840
"and then the following week

00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:38.480
"a film about mass
killings in Indonesia."

00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:40.880
And I say to them as
a kind of warning,

00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:44.480
and I make it a little
bit of a joke, I say,

00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:46.400
"Have a break now.

00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:47.920
"This is not for everybody.

00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:51.320
"I actually expect these
films to make you wanna cry,

00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:53.400
"make you sick to your
stomach at times.

00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:55.720
"And not everybody
wants to learn that way,

00:40:55.720 --> 00:40:57.240
"and there's a break, you can leave,

00:40:57.240 --> 00:40:58.840
"no hard feelings."

00:40:58.840 --> 00:41:00.520
And I say, "If you don't like
this thing, there are a lot

00:41:00.520 --> 00:41:02.320
"of other courses in
the university for you.

00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:04.880
"And if you really like
this stuff, get some help."

00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:05.920
- And they were talking about

00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:08.240
what they call now trigger
warnings, that you have to

00:41:08.240 --> 00:41:11.040
sort of look at all the
content that you're teaching

00:41:11.040 --> 00:41:13.640
and figure out what possibly
could offend anybody

00:41:13.640 --> 00:41:16.080
and warn them that they
might be offended.

00:41:16.080 --> 00:41:20.000
And I just thought like, I
wanna offend people, right?

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:21.200
I'm a philosophy professor.

00:41:21.200 --> 00:41:23.800
I want them to deal
with difficult ideas.

00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:27.400
Socrates, who's the founder of
philosophy, was put to death

00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:31.600
by the citizens of Athens
because he upset them,

00:41:31.600 --> 00:41:34.240
and he upset them because
he was doing what he wanted

00:41:34.240 --> 00:41:36.920
to do, and so he refused,
actually, to go into exile,

00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:39.920
and that's why he died because
he said, "This is my job.

00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:42.720
"I'm here to confront your opinions

00:41:42.720 --> 00:41:44.640
"and make you think
about what you're doing."

00:41:44.640 --> 00:41:46.000
- I love to speak on that.

00:41:47.200 --> 00:41:50.000
As somebody with crippling PTSD,

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.480
I can say trigger warnings
ignite two different

00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:54.160
responses out of me.

00:41:54.160 --> 00:41:55.640
Sometimes when I
hear trigger warnings

00:41:55.640 --> 00:41:58.640
it's very anxiety-provoking
knowing that I will be exposed

00:41:58.640 --> 00:42:00.320
to possibly triggering content,

00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:03.680
and just that notion can alert
my nervous system in ways

00:42:03.680 --> 00:42:05.760
that are so debilitating.

00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.600
But also, too, trigger
warnings sometimes for me

00:42:08.600 --> 00:42:11.320
feel like teachers giving me consent,

00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:16.240
it's giving me the opportunity
to protect myself in ways

00:42:16.240 --> 00:42:18.320
that I might not have
if I wasn't warranted

00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:19.960
that trigger warning.

00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:23.600
- [Julie] Northampton,
Massachusetts, where I live,

00:42:23.600 --> 00:42:24.560
might very well have been

00:42:24.560 --> 00:42:27.000
where trigger warnings were invented.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:30.240
Its rock-solid progressive
values go way back.

00:42:31.080 --> 00:42:32.800
Northampton was a central station

00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:34.280
on the Underground Railroad,

00:42:35.160 --> 00:42:38.880
[languid rock music]

00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:42.680
an anti-slavery hub where
abolitionist Sojourner Truth

00:42:42.680 --> 00:42:43.760
lived and worked.

00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:48.080
The area has two all-women's colleges

00:42:48.080 --> 00:42:50.360
where activists Betty Friedan

00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:52.280
and Gloria Steinem went to school,

00:42:53.640 --> 00:42:55.320
and Massachusetts was the first state

00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:58.000
to allow same-sex marriages.

00:42:58.000 --> 00:42:59.480
All good stuff.

00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:01.920
But sometimes people around here

00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:05.120
can get a little self-righteous.

00:43:05.120 --> 00:43:09.040
One day, as I was walking
downtown, a woman approached

00:43:09.040 --> 00:43:12.280
and asked me to turn in my
five-year-old's water pistol

00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:13.520
for a coloring book.

00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:19.840
Then at a potluck, I was told
not to say the word "husband."

00:43:20.200 --> 00:43:22.640
I should say "partner" instead.

00:43:23.600 --> 00:43:26.120
Recently, a job offer
for a guy running

00:43:26.120 --> 00:43:29.160
for school superintendent
was rescinded

00:43:29.160 --> 00:43:32.680
after he addressed two
committee members as "ladies."

00:43:33.640 --> 00:43:35.520
It all seemed a little extreme,

00:43:37.680 --> 00:43:40.760
but talking to Elizabeth
Pryor, professor of history

00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:44.320
at Smith College, helped
me see how certain words

00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:46.440
can have more power than we intend.

00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:50.040
- Words matter.

00:43:50.040 --> 00:43:52.960
One word that my students--
and I think this word

00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:57.200
in particular has caused a
lot of uproar around people,

00:43:57.200 --> 00:43:58.760
which is the word "crazy."

00:43:59.640 --> 00:44:04.120
So, my students at Smith who
are very interested in issues

00:44:04.120 --> 00:44:08.480
of disability really
consider the word "crazy"

00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:12.200
a slur about mental illness, right?

00:44:15.080 --> 00:44:17.960
So, I remember I was sitting
in a class with students

00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:20.920
and I was like, "I saw this
crazy movie the other day."

00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:23.120
And they were like, "Mm-mm.

00:44:23.120 --> 00:44:24.040
"Mm-mm-mm."

00:44:24.040 --> 00:44:26.480
I was like, "Wait, what? No,
I'm saying it in a good way."

00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:28.520
They're like, "Not a good way.

00:44:28.520 --> 00:44:30.880
"There's not actually a good way."

00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:34.120
I know from being at a
women's college that a third

00:44:34.120 --> 00:44:37.280
of my students suffer from
some kind of mental illness.

00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:40.160
I'm shutting down that third
of the students in my class.

00:44:40.160 --> 00:44:41.240
I don't wanna do it.

00:44:41.240 --> 00:44:46.000
- In our day and age when
25% of college students,

00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:48.720
or thereabouts,
maybe it's closer to 40%,

00:44:48.720 --> 00:44:53.080
are on psychoactive medication,
to say there's no such thing

00:44:53.080 --> 00:44:55.560
as emotional harm, and yet to have

00:44:55.560 --> 00:44:58.520
billions of dollars going
into psychopharmacology,

00:44:58.520 --> 00:45:00.160
that seems-- it's ludicrous.

00:45:02.080 --> 00:45:04.880
- [Julie] One thing I
still wondered about:

00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:08.280
Conservatives often comment
that the word "inclusion"

00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:12.800
on college campuses is a
tool of left-wing, race,

00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:14.480
gender, and sexual politics,

00:45:16.040 --> 00:45:19.880
but couldn't inclusion also
mean political diversity?

00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:23.600
[loping jazz bass]

00:45:23.600 --> 00:45:26.400
On a typical liberal college campus,

00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:28.360
what could be done?

00:45:30.080 --> 00:45:33.440
- We have to be more aware
at colleges and universities

00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:35.920
of the biases we bring
to the hiring process.

00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:38.520
So I would love to see, and
have written a lot about,

00:45:38.520 --> 00:45:41.040
wanting to see more intellectual
and political diversity

00:45:41.040 --> 00:45:42.160
on campus.

00:45:42.160 --> 00:45:45.760
I also believe that having
the government choose people

00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:50.800
on the basis of your ideology
is a recipe for disaster.

00:45:51.120 --> 00:45:52.080
I mean, this is the government

00:45:52.080 --> 00:45:54.760
that can't even use
the Signal app well.

00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:59.320
We need the professional
historians choosing historians,

00:45:59.320 --> 00:46:02.400
but being mindful of
their political biases,

00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:05.840
and the same in English
or anthropology.

00:46:08.680 --> 00:46:10.320
- Professor Loretta Ross

00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:13.680
teaches students a practice
she calls "calling in."

00:46:14.520 --> 00:46:18.000
It's a way to understand
other people's perspectives,

00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:19.800
even very different ones.

00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:25.280
- We're an academic institution,

00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:29.680
so I'm always gonna believe
in research, baby, research.

00:46:29.680 --> 00:46:33.440
And so if I know that an Ann
Coulter is coming to campus,

00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:37.320
I'm gonna prepare dossier on
her, her most famous quotes,

00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:42.160
and make sure that the
campus is educated about

00:46:42.160 --> 00:46:46.000
what she's done in the past,
what she's likely to say.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:49.600
How do we deal with the difference
between academic freedom

00:46:49.600 --> 00:46:51.480
and the First Amendment?

00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:54.160
[loping jazz bass]

00:46:54.160 --> 00:46:57.640
What does it look like
to de-platform somebody

00:46:57.640 --> 00:47:01.680
versus carefully interrogating them?

00:47:01.680 --> 00:47:04.440
I want my students to know this is

00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:08.720
how you prepare a background
packet on somebody

00:47:08.720 --> 00:47:10.000
so that when you get to the mic,

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:12.640
you ask the penetrating questions.

00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:16.960
- I would also be interested,
too, like, in thinking about

00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:21.760
how a speaker like her coming
to campus would be structured.

00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:26.560
I would be less open
to seeing just a speech

00:47:26.560 --> 00:47:30.600
that she was giving
than having her be part

00:47:30.600 --> 00:47:33.520
of a larger discussion that
represents multiple viewpoints

00:47:33.520 --> 00:47:36.080
that students can be engaged
in that other faculty

00:47:36.080 --> 00:47:39.760
who have more reproductive
justice framework

00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:44.560
and pro-choice, like, lenses
would also be engaged with.

00:47:44.560 --> 00:47:46.680
I think that that could
be a lot more productive,

00:47:46.680 --> 00:47:49.400
and as long as it was done in a way

00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:52.920
where it's not becoming calling out.

00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:55.760
- And I think that when we
talk about echo chambers,

00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:58.600
it's not just bad for
people who don't agree

00:47:58.600 --> 00:48:00.800
with the internal beliefs
of an echo chamber.

00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.400
It's bad for the people inside, too,

00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:03.440
because we don't actually get

00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:06.160
to understand our own opinions deeply.

00:48:06.160 --> 00:48:07.880
And that's of course just part of it,

00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:10.960
'cause there's also a part of,
what if a lot of students

00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:12.800
on campus are very
uncomfortable by that

00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:14.480
and are made to feel unsafe?

00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:16.400
And that should also be
part of the conversation.

00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:19.480
Is this a large enough
concern that maybe

00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:21.920
this just shouldn't be an
event happening on campus?

00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:25.120
- But also making a
distinction between

00:48:25.120 --> 00:48:29.160
what is a "safe enough" space,
and what is a safe space.

00:48:29.160 --> 00:48:32.240
'Cause a safe enough space may be all

00:48:32.240 --> 00:48:36.880
that a public forum can provide,
'cause there's no guarantee

00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:41.920
that you'll never hear an
idea in an academic community

00:48:42.120 --> 00:48:45.760
that doesn't get
interpreted as harmful.

00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:46.880
'Cause that's our job,

00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:50.960
our job is to sometimes
say the unthinkable

00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:53.680
and see if it's worth teaching about.

00:48:53.680 --> 00:48:58.720
So, I like people discussing harm

00:48:58.720 --> 00:49:00.720
in advance of need.

00:49:00.720 --> 00:49:05.440
I also want people to discuss
the verifiability of harm,

00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:08.960
because just because somebody
says "This hurts me,"

00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:12.640
it's not enough for me to
say, "Oops, ouch, whoa."

00:49:12.640 --> 00:49:15.320
I wanna know why is it hurting,

00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:18.640
and what can we do to prevent
it in the first place?

00:49:18.640 --> 00:49:20.720
And what you gonna do about it?

00:49:20.720 --> 00:49:23.080
Because I'm not supposed
to be your shield.

00:49:23.080 --> 00:49:24.960
All I can be is your teacher.

00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:28.200
- A "safe enough space" is a space

00:49:28.200 --> 00:49:30.160
in which you can encounter difference,

00:49:30.160 --> 00:49:33.480
you can encounter ideas
that make you uncomfortable,

00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:35.360
but it's safe enough that
you know you're not gonna be

00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:39.040
subject to intimidation or harassment.

00:49:39.040 --> 00:49:44.080
You're not gonna be
erased in that space.

00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:47.160
- [Julie] But in the spring of 2025,

00:49:47.160 --> 00:49:50.240
our country witnessed
someone being erased

00:49:50.240 --> 00:49:55.200
in that very space, the
safe space of a university.

00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.760
Erased for voicing an opinion.

00:49:58.680 --> 00:50:01.400
- [Reporter 4] 30-year-old
Rumeysa Ozturk was on her way

00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:04.720
to break her Ramadan fast
with friends on Tuesday

00:50:04.720 --> 00:50:07.920
when six plain-clothed
officers approached her.

00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:10.920
They take her phone and
put her in handcuffs.

00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:14.800
Only then do they appear to
identify themselves as police.

00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:16.880
Ozturk is a doctoral student

00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:20.600
from Turkey studying child
development at Tufts University.

00:50:20.600 --> 00:50:23.960
She's the recipient of the
prestigious Fulbright Scholarship

00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:28.080
and had an F1 student visa,
now revoked.

00:50:28.080 --> 00:50:30.880
A year ago, Ozturk
was among four authors

00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:34.160
of a student newspaper
op-ed that called for an end

00:50:34.160 --> 00:50:37.600
to Israel's war on Gaza and
more support for Palestinians

00:50:37.600 --> 00:50:38.800
from the university.

00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:44.240
- [Julie] And over 300 other
students on international visas

00:50:44.240 --> 00:50:48.600
were also arrested and
detained without due process.

00:50:50.720 --> 00:50:53.880
Back in 2019, the right
wing was on the side

00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:55.880
of academic free speech,

00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:58.760
and President
Trump was its champion.

00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:02.160
But in 2025, when
Trump became president

00:51:02.160 --> 00:51:05.240
for the second
time, everything changed.

00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:08.920
Trump then demanded the elimination of

00:51:08.920 --> 00:51:12.280
diversity and inclusion
programs and the addition

00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:16.480
of government oversight
regarding hiring, admissions,

00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:17.600
and curriculum.

00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:22.280
At Harvard, President Alan
Garber rejected Trump's demands,

00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:24.080
calling them illegal.

00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:27.880
"No government", he said,
"should dictate what

00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:31.240
"private institutions
can teach, whom they can

00:51:31.240 --> 00:51:33.840
"admit and hire, and which areas of

00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:35.840
"study and inquiry they can pursue."

00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:40.920
Trump's first move was to freeze
$2 billion federal dollars

00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:44.080
to Harvard, affecting
research on such things

00:51:44.080 --> 00:51:48.040
as Parkinson's disease,
Alzheimer's, and TB.

00:51:50.120 --> 00:51:52.600
So much for the right wing
being the great champion

00:51:52.600 --> 00:51:54.360
of free speech.

00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:57.280
The only free speech the
right wing wanted to champion

00:51:57.280 --> 00:51:58.760
was its own.

00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:03.560
In the end, have I
learned anything here?

00:52:04.640 --> 00:52:05.560
Has anyone?

00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:12.560
[loping jazz bass]

00:52:15.040 --> 00:52:18.560
- In fact, I think that free
speech is the greatest ally

00:52:18.560 --> 00:52:21.800
of diversity and inclusion,

00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:25.360
and if you go back to
the civil rights era

00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:26.800
it was the freedom of speech

00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:30.000
that allowed those protests,
that allowed that movement.

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.080
The significant amount of
its fervor and its intensity,

00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:37.360
and the basis for its
successes both in the country

00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:41.000
and in the legislature, in the
Congress, and in the courts.

00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:43.480
- In the world we live in today,

00:52:43.480 --> 00:52:46.400
a lot of things
trigger people, I guess.

00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:48.400
And so that is where it comes

00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:51.920
a little more into question
because millennials,

00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:55.040
people my age, like,
are triggered more

00:52:55.040 --> 00:52:58.600
than other generations
have been, I would say,

00:52:58.600 --> 00:53:01.640
which makes it hard to
say what is hate speech

00:53:01.640 --> 00:53:02.920
and what is free speech,

00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:06.080
and what's the in-between
and where's the line.

00:53:06.080 --> 00:53:10.880
- We're losing that ability
to have civil discussions

00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:15.640
where one viewpoint
that is completely

00:53:15.640 --> 00:53:18.440
just not accepted,
not on anybody's radar,

00:53:18.440 --> 00:53:23.200
can be brought into a
space, wrestled with,

00:53:23.200 --> 00:53:26.400
and then a conclusion can be reached,

00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:29.560
and everybody kind of
respects and partakes

00:53:29.560 --> 00:53:33.160
in that intellectual act
and respects it as such.

00:53:33.160 --> 00:53:36.320
- If you are at Amherst, yes,

00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:38.120
free speech may be
a little bit limited,

00:53:38.120 --> 00:53:41.880
but there is not
going to be any kind of,

00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:44.280
like, institutional pushback on you

00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:46.200
for stating your opinion.

00:53:46.200 --> 00:53:49.240
Like, I had a professor,
a white professor,

00:53:49.240 --> 00:53:51.000
reading a poem by a Black man,

00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:52.960
say the N word during the poem.

00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:54.880
And to me, that was
completely unacceptable.

00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:57.640
But he didn't get fired,
y'know, he was all right.

00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:01.960
So I think that it's
important to understand--

00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:06.320
we talk to fascism, and I think
it's important to understand

00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:09.200
that true fascism
isn't like book banning

00:54:09.200 --> 00:54:11.200
or, like, banning critical race theory

00:54:11.200 --> 00:54:13.520
or in banning sexuality
and gender classes.

00:54:13.520 --> 00:54:17.680
- How can we improve
the tone on our campuses

00:54:17.680 --> 00:54:22.160
and people's willingness to
listen to other people's ideas?

00:54:22.160 --> 00:54:26.000
How could we diminish the
so-called cancel culture?

00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:29.600
Well, leadership is always a factor.

00:54:29.600 --> 00:54:34.000
So if your college president,
your provost, your deans

00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:38.760
did more to promote
roundtables, panels, debates,

00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:42.720
I think it would condition
students to the idea that,

00:54:42.720 --> 00:54:44.640
on a given controversy,
there's likely

00:54:44.640 --> 00:54:47.280
to be more than one
reasonable opinion.

00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:49.600
- And for me, the issue is
how do you open up space

00:54:49.600 --> 00:54:54.200
to allow people to say things
which may be wrong, right,

00:54:54.200 --> 00:54:57.440
which may be wrong without
shutting them down,

00:54:57.440 --> 00:55:00.120
because if you want to
engage in any kind of debate,

00:55:00.120 --> 00:55:01.440
if you wanna engage in pedagogy

00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:03.960
which is actually
changing people's minds,

00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:04.960
getting people to learn.

00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:05.880
I mean, that's what learning is.

00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:07.520
Learning is changing your mind.

00:55:07.520 --> 00:55:10.880
- Well, a number of
philosophers have argued

00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:15.240
that constraints on
speech will have a really

00:55:15.240 --> 00:55:19.520
deleterious effect on
our attainment of truth.

00:55:19.520 --> 00:55:21.960
If you think that truth is the outcome

00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:25.720
of basically conversations
between people of disagreement,

00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:31.520
then you're gonna wind up
thinking that it's very important

00:55:31.520 --> 00:55:34.680
for there to be these
contrasting views.

00:55:34.680 --> 00:55:36.840
- [Julie] If there's
anyone who understands

00:55:36.840 --> 00:55:39.400
contrasting views, it's Loretta Ross.

00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:43.840
Loretta's been an activist
for over 40 years.

00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.920
She's basically spent her life
fighting for human rights,

00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:50.400
and she told a story
that astonished me.

00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:55.000
- In the 1990s, I worked
against hate groups

00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:58.160
like the Ku Klux Klan
and the Aryan Nations,

00:55:58.160 --> 00:56:02.880
and in that work I met a
man named Floyd Cochran,

00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:05.880
who was the national spokesman
for the Aryan Nations.

00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:08.560
And Floyd called my center one day

00:56:08.560 --> 00:56:11.200
because he'd been kicked
off the compound,

00:56:11.200 --> 00:56:13.840
and the reason he was
kicked off the compound was

00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:16.960
because his second son was
born with a cleft palate.

00:56:18.240 --> 00:56:20.320
And his Aryan buddies told him

00:56:20.320 --> 00:56:24.040
that his son was a genetic
defect who needed to be culled.

00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:27.920
Well, that was kind of like
a wake-up call for Floyd.

00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:32.880
He'd been a Nazi for 21 years,
since he was 14,

00:56:33.240 --> 00:56:36.400
and all of a sudden
the hatred came home,

00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:39.320
and so he wanted to go
on this tour of atonement

00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:43.040
to apologize for the
harm that he had done.

00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:49.840
Floyd was my first real calling in,

00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:53.440
because I was all
right hating the Klan.

00:56:53.440 --> 00:56:55.600
I was all right hating Nazis.

00:56:55.600 --> 00:57:00.440
That had been a real
strong fuel for my rage,

00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:04.440
my anger, my passion
for doing the work.

00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:07.360
But I found that once
you got to know him,

00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:08.960
you couldn't hate him anymore,

00:57:10.200 --> 00:57:13.520
and so I had to find another
reason for doing the work.

00:57:13.520 --> 00:57:16.040
So Floyd was part of
my calling in journey,

00:57:16.040 --> 00:57:20.960
'cause I had to call myself in
around my anger and my hatred

00:57:22.560 --> 00:57:26.360
in order to actually see
him as a human being.

00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:30.560
- [Julie] If Loretta Ross
can work with a former Nazi,

00:57:30.560 --> 00:57:33.560
maybe the rest of us can
learn to talk to each other,

00:57:33.560 --> 00:57:35.680
and even more importantly

00:57:35.680 --> 00:57:37.440
listen to each other.

00:57:38.680 --> 00:57:43.040
- Calling in is actually
a call out done with love,

00:57:43.040 --> 00:57:45.240
'cause you're still
seeking accountability,

00:57:45.240 --> 00:57:49.040
but instead of using that
humiliation and shame

00:57:49.040 --> 00:57:52.000
you're using love and respect.

00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:56.680
So an example of a calling in
would be instead of saying,

00:57:56.680 --> 00:57:59.760
"I can't believe you just said that!",

00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:03.720
call out tone of voice,
you can say instead,

00:58:03.720 --> 00:58:07.400
"Y'know, that's an interesting
perspective. Tell me more."

00:58:07.400 --> 00:58:10.120
With that, you've invited
them into a conversation

00:58:10.120 --> 00:58:12.520
instead of a fight.

00:58:12.520 --> 00:58:17.520
Since we've been in social
being with each other

00:58:17.600 --> 00:58:20.720
we've had to learn ways
to get along better,

00:58:20.720 --> 00:58:24.400
and just because the
internet has persuaded us

00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:27.200
that everybody who doesn't
agree with us, by definition,

00:58:27.200 --> 00:58:30.440
must be an opponent,
we don't have to fall for

00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:33.720
that overly simplified binary,

00:58:33.720 --> 00:58:38.200
and we can actually figure out
how to build common ground,

00:58:38.200 --> 00:58:42.120
how to agree to disagree,
how to actually enjoy

00:58:42.120 --> 00:58:44.000
that it's the diversity of opinions

00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:46.080
that produces the best thinking.

00:58:48.040 --> 00:58:50.080
[upbeat funk music]

00:58:50.080 --> 00:58:52.160
- [Julie] And what
happened to my son Sam,

00:58:52.160 --> 00:58:54.040
who started me on this journey?

00:58:55.360 --> 00:58:58.640
He listened, and then
he went his own way.

00:58:59.840 --> 00:59:04.360
Maybe that was wrong, or maybe
writing his book was his way

00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:06.000
to understand other people.

00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:10.280
We all live with lots of
opposites in this world.

00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:14.400
It could be that inclusion and
free speech are two of them.

00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:17.360
Maybe we need inclusion

00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:20.080
to make sure historically
marginalized people

00:59:20.080 --> 00:59:22.200
are no longer kept out.

00:59:25.720 --> 00:59:27.640
And maybe we need free speech

00:59:27.640 --> 00:59:31.120
because society can only work
when we hear every opinion

00:59:31.120 --> 00:59:32.360
under the sun.

00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:36.360
Because it's
not just about words.

00:59:36.360 --> 00:59:39.000
In the end, it's about lives.

00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:41.320
[Rümeysa shrieking]

00:59:41.320 --> 00:59:42.960
- [ICE Agent 1] It's fine.

00:59:45.040 --> 00:59:46.840
- [ICE Agent 2] We're the
police, we're the police.

00:59:46.840 --> 00:59:48.040
- [Bystander] Well,
you don't look like it.

00:59:48.040 --> 00:59:50.520
Why are you hiding your faces?

00:59:50.520 --> 00:59:53.360
[melancholy jazz clarinet]