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Rosalie Silberman Abella — “Rosie” to almost everyone who knows her — has built a breathtaking and pathbreaking legal legacy while becoming a human rights hero and icon. This is the story of an exceptional person who spent her entire life reminding us that we must never forget how the world looks to those who are vulnerable.
Considered by many to be the “Canadian RBG,” she was at the forefront of major decisions on employment equity, gay marriage, constitutional law, and many more landmark cases. In addition, Justice Abella — born in a displaced persons’ camp following the Holocaust and an immigrant to Canada at the age of 4 — stood for many marginalized communities during her years on the bench.
As a passionate and provocative Supreme Court Justice, Rosie Abella is the sixth woman appointed to the Supreme Court of Canada since 1875, the first Jewish woman and the first refugee to sit on the bench — but she’s probably the first Canadian justice that became a human rights phenomenon.
The film is a loving and informative documentary portrait of Justice Abella in the final days before leaving the bench, with full evidence of what inspired her and what continues to drive her resolute commitment to make a difference, as well as a chronicle of her family beginnings, her meteoric career, and her enduring marriage to Irving Abella.
Meet a fireball of a person who is curious, accessible and still ambitious at the age of 75 as she begins the next act of her life, a life that is underscored with pain, triumph, 38 honorary degrees, and the music of Gershwin.
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Law and Legal Studies,Aging,Critcism and Theory,CanadaKeywords
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Rosie: This is not just
the last sitting day
00:00:25.434 --> 00:00:26.935
of the Supreme Court year.
00:00:26.935 --> 00:00:30.134
It is also the last sitting day
of my Supreme Court career.
00:00:31.101 --> 00:00:32.601
People like me,
00:00:32.601 --> 00:00:35.835
female, Jewish,
immigrant, refugee,
00:00:35.835 --> 00:00:38.568
weren't exactly being appointed
to the bench in droves.
00:00:39.269 --> 00:00:41.902
But if somebody wanted
to make me a judge,
00:00:41.902 --> 00:00:44.001
who was I to say no
to the opportunity?
00:00:44.768 --> 00:00:47.735
After all, immigrants
live for opportunities,
00:00:47.735 --> 00:00:48.934
not entitlements.
00:00:52.001 --> 00:00:56.001
♪ (jazzy music) ♪
00:01:30.368 --> 00:01:42.434
♪ (dramatic orchestral music) ♪
00:02:26.067 --> 00:02:28.768
- Who doesn't know Rosie Abella?
00:02:28.768 --> 00:02:31.434
Everyone knows Rosie Abella.
00:02:35.801 --> 00:02:38.368
- She was the youngest judge
in Canadian history.
00:02:38.368 --> 00:02:40.968
Solomon: 17 years
as a Supreme Court judge.
00:02:40.968 --> 00:02:44.035
- One of the great living
justices in the world.
00:02:44.335 --> 00:02:47.067
Mulroney: Great sense of humor.
Great sense of history.
00:02:48.368 --> 00:02:49.735
- A challenging figure
in terms of
00:02:49.735 --> 00:02:51.334
what she stands for
as a thinker.
00:02:52.701 --> 00:02:54.768
M. Atkins: Rosie was a
roll-up-your-sleeves person.
00:02:54.768 --> 00:02:56.801
- Who was able to move
institutions
00:02:56.801 --> 00:02:58.401
and thinking forward.
00:02:58.401 --> 00:03:00.735
Solomon: Rosalie Abella
leaves the bench,
00:03:00.735 --> 00:03:02.835
but she leaves a long legacy.
00:03:02.835 --> 00:03:04.501
Rosie: I wrote a
gay rights judgment.
00:03:04.501 --> 00:03:06.434
- She was really taking
very seriously
00:03:06.434 --> 00:03:08.635
the rights of women,
other minorities.
00:03:08.935 --> 00:03:11.334
- Her decisions have had
such a wide-ranging impact
00:03:11.334 --> 00:03:13.135
on Canadian society.
00:03:13.135 --> 00:03:16.001
- Very inspiring, influential,
definitely iconic.
00:03:16.968 --> 00:03:19.768
- Humanitarian
and a compassionate judge.
00:03:19.768 --> 00:03:23.301
- She's also lectured, spoken,
00:03:23.301 --> 00:03:25.501
taught around the world.
00:03:25.501 --> 00:03:26.935
Martin: Well, there's
no doubt about her drive.
00:03:26.935 --> 00:03:29.135
But she is also a lot of fun.
00:03:29.135 --> 00:03:33.001
- There's no other adjective
I can say except, she's Rosie.
00:03:38.501 --> 00:03:45.636
♪ (soft jazzy piano music) ♪
00:03:45.636 --> 00:03:49.234
Rosie: This is the office I've
been in for the last few years.
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It's...an incredible office.
00:03:52.334 --> 00:03:54.501
It feels like home to me
00:03:54.501 --> 00:03:56.601
and I'm so comfortable in here.
00:03:56.601 --> 00:03:59.801
These are all things that
make me happy and smile.
00:04:00.269 --> 00:04:03.235
I always look at my kids,
every office I've been in,
00:04:03.235 --> 00:04:07.701
I've made sure that my desk
is facing the picture of them
00:04:07.701 --> 00:04:09.534
when they were 9 and 12.
00:04:10.235 --> 00:04:13.335
The Gershwin poster
always makes me happy
00:04:13.335 --> 00:04:16.034
because those are my
second-favorite brothers.
00:04:17.701 --> 00:04:19.801
This was my father's diploma
00:04:19.801 --> 00:04:21.700
from the Jagiellonian University
00:04:22.334 --> 00:04:25.501
that he graduated from in 1934.
00:04:25.501 --> 00:04:29.668
He was there from 1930 to 1934.
00:04:29.668 --> 00:04:31.168
When we went to Poland,
00:04:31.168 --> 00:04:34.801
my husband and I went to the
Jagiellonian Law School
00:04:34.801 --> 00:04:38.101
and I said to the person
who showed us around,
00:04:39.002 --> 00:04:41.834
'Is there anywhere
I could see what he studied?'
00:04:42.568 --> 00:04:46.002
What I saw was that
his religion was mentioned
00:04:46.002 --> 00:04:48.101
in three different places,
Jewish.
00:04:48.635 --> 00:04:51.468
I asked her about
the religion and she,
00:04:51.468 --> 00:04:54.368
she said, you know,
00:04:54.368 --> 00:04:56.035
hats off to your father.
00:04:56.035 --> 00:04:59.334
It was very hard to be
Jewish here in those days.
00:05:00.201 --> 00:05:01.401
And so I cried.
00:05:04.735 --> 00:05:07.768
Gopnik: The story of how
her parents
00:05:07.768 --> 00:05:09.868
came to Canada,
00:05:09.868 --> 00:05:12.101
to come out of the background
of the Holocaust,
00:05:12.101 --> 00:05:13.835
to become the most revered
00:05:13.835 --> 00:05:15.735
justice in recent
Canadian history.
00:05:15.735 --> 00:05:17.534
That's an
extraordinary story.
00:05:17.534 --> 00:05:19.268
And it's the kind of
'only in Canada' story.
00:05:20.701 --> 00:05:22.135
Rosie: In fact,
00:05:22.135 --> 00:05:24.935
I didn't know my mother had
owned a factory in Poland
00:05:24.935 --> 00:05:27.035
because all she did
was talk about
00:05:27.035 --> 00:05:28.968
my father
and how brilliant he was,
00:05:28.968 --> 00:05:32.967
and how he went to university on
scholarship and Jews didn't.
00:05:34.701 --> 00:05:36.368
One of the things that I found
00:05:36.368 --> 00:05:39.801
this is from
the district judge of Reddam.
00:05:39.801 --> 00:05:42.968
It is further mentioned that
at the order of the President
00:05:42.968 --> 00:05:45.301
of the Court of Appeal
at Lublin,
00:05:45.301 --> 00:05:48.568
as of July 26, 1939,
00:05:48.568 --> 00:05:53.368
Mr. Silberman was admitted
to the examination as a judge.
00:05:54.269 --> 00:05:58.134
In the period
26 to 28th October, 1939.
00:05:58.868 --> 00:06:01.368
I never knew that he had
applied to become a judge.
00:06:01.735 --> 00:06:05.134
But of course, October '39,
the war started and there was no
00:06:05.668 --> 00:06:07.667
no practicing law and never mind
00:06:08.468 --> 00:06:09.767
becoming a judge.
00:06:12.002 --> 00:06:14.401
My parents ended up
in concentration camps
00:06:14.401 --> 00:06:16.701
for most of the
Second World War.
00:06:16.701 --> 00:06:20.434
They had a child, my brother,
who was two and-a-half,
00:06:20.434 --> 00:06:21.835
who was killed at Treblinka,
00:06:21.835 --> 00:06:24.667
and my father's whole family
was killed at Treblinka.
00:06:26.535 --> 00:06:29.668
I kept asking, what was it
like in the concentration camps?
00:06:29.668 --> 00:06:32.134
They never talked
about what they had lost.
00:06:32.134 --> 00:06:34.034
Even talking about their son.
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They just were not people
00:06:35.534 --> 00:06:39.201
who complained about
what had gone before.
00:06:41.202 --> 00:06:43.234
So these are the papers
that my mother gave me.
00:06:43.534 --> 00:06:45.601
And this is my father
when he was Head of the
00:06:45.601 --> 00:06:48.001
Displaced Persons Camp
in southwest Germany,
00:06:48.668 --> 00:06:51.001
where they went after the war
and where I was born.
00:06:51.668 --> 00:06:52.768
Z. Abella: You know,
you would never know
00:06:52.768 --> 00:06:54.468
by going into our household,
the horrors
00:06:54.468 --> 00:06:57.301
that she would have heard
growing up in her house
00:06:57.902 --> 00:07:00.568
with her
survivor parents,
00:07:00.868 --> 00:07:02.500
and her survivor
grandmother.
00:07:05.935 --> 00:07:07.902
Rosie:
Of all the houses I went into
00:07:07.902 --> 00:07:10.601
as a child growing up,
mine was the happiest.
00:07:11.002 --> 00:07:12.868
They were the
happiest people I knew.
00:07:12.868 --> 00:07:16.501
I felt I was
floating through childhood.
00:07:17.035 --> 00:07:18.701
Farber: I honestly think
it's her immigrant experience
00:07:18.701 --> 00:07:21.234
being born in Europe, postwar,
00:07:21.735 --> 00:07:23.568
coming to a country that
00:07:23.568 --> 00:07:26.668
welcomed her on one hand,
but didn't allow her parents
00:07:26.668 --> 00:07:28.867
to accomplish
what they wanted to accomplish.
00:07:33.501 --> 00:07:35.834
Rosie: This was from the
Law Society of Upper Canada,
00:07:35.834 --> 00:07:36.834
where he went
00:07:37.668 --> 00:07:40.568
in order to see if he could
practice law in Canada,
00:07:40.568 --> 00:07:41.768
and they said no.
00:07:41.768 --> 00:07:45.668
But I want to show you
that there were letters here,
00:07:45.668 --> 00:07:48.601
from lawyers and judges
he worked with in Germany,
00:07:48.601 --> 00:07:52.068
that just recommended him
for jobs in Canada.
00:07:52.068 --> 00:07:54.335
He just assumed
he was going to practice.
00:07:54.335 --> 00:07:57.334
My decision about being
a lawyer was only because
00:07:58.101 --> 00:08:00.434
I heard at the age of four
00:08:00.434 --> 00:08:02.202
that the Law Society
had told my father
00:08:02.202 --> 00:08:04.534
he couldn't be a lawyer
because he wasn't a citizen.
00:08:04.534 --> 00:08:06.135
So when I said,
00:08:06.135 --> 00:08:08.102
'you can't do that,
I'm going to do that,'
00:08:08.102 --> 00:08:10.401
I had no idea
what I was talking about.
00:08:12.434 --> 00:08:13.935
I remember my father saying,
00:08:13.935 --> 00:08:15.234
'Don't worry about
being popular.
00:08:16.035 --> 00:08:18.301
The most important thing is
for people to respect you.'
00:08:19.067 --> 00:08:21.533
And so I grew up thinking,
00:08:22.234 --> 00:08:23.601
I do want that.
00:08:23.601 --> 00:08:26.101
And I worked even in
public school and high school.
00:08:27.102 --> 00:08:29.501
But I also didn't
mind being popular.
00:08:29.501 --> 00:08:31.234
I'm a girl. What can I say?
00:08:31.234 --> 00:08:33.301
So that...that mattered too.
00:08:35.501 --> 00:08:38.468
And one night
when I was about 11 or 12,
00:08:38.468 --> 00:08:40.668
I was in the basement
with my grandmother,
00:08:40.668 --> 00:08:43.334
watching her prepare
for the Passover Seder.
00:08:43.334 --> 00:08:45.234
They said, 'You,
don't you do the housework.
00:08:45.234 --> 00:08:46.734
We'll do it.
Go do your homework.'
00:08:48.601 --> 00:08:50.835
It wasn't until I read
Les Miserables,
00:08:50.835 --> 00:08:53.002
when I was 12 or 13,
00:08:53.002 --> 00:08:56.268
that I connected
what I wanted to do,
00:08:56.268 --> 00:08:58.401
with what justice is,
00:08:58.401 --> 00:09:00.868
because of the
gross injustice in that book.
00:09:01.469 --> 00:09:05.301
So I went from being a child
who just, by rote said,
00:09:05.301 --> 00:09:06.268
I want to be a lawyer,
00:09:06.268 --> 00:09:08.635
which people
patted me on the head for
00:09:08.635 --> 00:09:11.368
and pinched my cheeks
at weddings and bar mitzvahs,
00:09:11.368 --> 00:09:12.835
'Isn't she cute, she
wants to be a lawyer?'
00:09:12.835 --> 00:09:14.567
to actually wanting
to be a lawyer.
00:09:15.501 --> 00:09:17.868
My parents
talk to me like an adult.
00:09:17.868 --> 00:09:22.402
And they also left
a very strong sense in me
00:09:22.402 --> 00:09:25.301
that I had a responsibility
to pay Canada back.
00:09:25.835 --> 00:09:28.534
That we'd been given a gift
of being able to come here.
00:09:28.902 --> 00:09:31.334
And I had to repay that gift,
00:09:31.334 --> 00:09:33.668
by being somebody Canada would
00:09:33.668 --> 00:09:35.867
one day be proud of.
00:09:38.067 --> 00:09:41.468
♪ (jazz music) ♪
00:09:47.334 --> 00:09:49.168
I got to law school where
00:09:49.168 --> 00:09:51.568
there were a lot of rules and
a lot of cases to read.
00:09:51.568 --> 00:09:53.168
Not all of them
very interesting.
00:09:53.168 --> 00:09:55.534
And I thought, God,
I hope I'm doing the right thing
00:09:55.534 --> 00:09:59.201
because this doesn't
seem to be helping anybody.
00:09:59.668 --> 00:10:01.134
But those are the
tools of the trade
00:10:01.134 --> 00:10:02.967
that you have to know how to do.
00:10:04.435 --> 00:10:08.434
♪ Holding hands at midnight ♪
("Nice Work If You Can Get It"
by Ella Fitzgerald)
00:10:08.434 --> 00:10:12.768
♪ 'Neath a starry sky ♪
00:10:12.768 --> 00:10:15.902
♪ Nice work if you can get it ♪
00:10:15.902 --> 00:10:19.468
♪ And you can get it
if you try ♪
00:10:19.468 --> 00:10:21.968
I remember the call
to the bar in 1972
00:10:21.968 --> 00:10:24.568
because there were 520 people
00:10:25.035 --> 00:10:28.301
at the O'Keefe Center,
14 - 15 women.
00:10:28.301 --> 00:10:30.002
And I thought, 'Oh!
00:10:30.002 --> 00:10:32.434
Wow, this is
going to be different.'
00:10:33.202 --> 00:10:36.001
Because I never felt
like a minority in my life.
00:10:36.501 --> 00:10:39.301
But this was the beginning
of real life.
00:10:39.801 --> 00:10:43.667
So I wasn't scared, but I wasn't
sure what was waiting for me.
00:10:45.501 --> 00:10:48.135
So I continued being who I was,
00:10:48.502 --> 00:10:51.534
from the minute I graduated from
law school and met a client.
00:10:51.902 --> 00:10:54.201
Like it's all a sense
of responsibility.
00:10:54.568 --> 00:10:56.734
You're not there
for you anymore.
00:10:59.801 --> 00:11:01.868
So the one thing I realized
00:11:01.868 --> 00:11:03.534
when I hit the legal profession,
00:11:03.534 --> 00:11:06.534
was that there were
a lot of people in it,
00:11:06.534 --> 00:11:09.434
whose fathers or grandfathers
had been lawyers,
00:11:09.434 --> 00:11:12.534
who came from
very successful families.
00:11:12.935 --> 00:11:16.202
And who kind of expected
that they would go to law school
00:11:16.202 --> 00:11:19.067
and be lawyers, that they
would go to the best firms,
00:11:19.067 --> 00:11:21.235
that they would be judges.
00:11:21.235 --> 00:11:23.902
Immigrants don't feel that.
Immigrants never feel that
00:11:23.902 --> 00:11:25.635
they're entitled to anything.
00:11:25.635 --> 00:11:26.968
If you thought
00:11:26.968 --> 00:11:30.501
you wanted to do something,
you had to invest the time,
00:11:30.935 --> 00:11:32.635
you had to make the effort,
00:11:32.635 --> 00:11:35.269
you had to probably
be better than anybody else.
00:11:35.269 --> 00:11:37.601
And then if you were lucky,
it would happen.
00:11:37.601 --> 00:11:39.568
(Ella Fitzgerald singing)
♪ --work if you can get it ♪
00:11:39.568 --> 00:11:43.269
♪ And you can get it
if you try ♪
00:11:43.269 --> 00:11:45.667
Most of my friends from law
school went into big firms,
00:11:46.067 --> 00:11:47.701
big, big firms.
00:11:47.701 --> 00:11:49.468
Almost nobody went into
00:11:49.468 --> 00:11:51.768
a firm of one lawyer,
00:11:51.768 --> 00:11:54.101
who was a wonderful man,
Vince Kelly.
00:11:54.101 --> 00:11:55.668
He did labor law.
00:11:55.668 --> 00:11:58.801
He did criminal, civil.
So I did everything.
00:11:58.801 --> 00:12:00.968
After two years with him,
I wanted to be on my own.
00:12:00.968 --> 00:12:04.434
I wanted to control what clients
I was going to take,
00:12:04.434 --> 00:12:05.768
what clients
I wasn't going to take.
00:12:05.768 --> 00:12:06.835
I didn't care about the money.
00:12:06.835 --> 00:12:09.501
♪ Nice work, nice work ♪
00:12:09.501 --> 00:12:11.334
I had my own firm.
00:12:11.334 --> 00:12:12.801
One lawyer, just me.
00:12:12.801 --> 00:12:15.902
At the corner of
Bay and Queen and I loved it.
00:12:15.902 --> 00:12:18.134
I would have done that forever.
Practiced law.
00:12:18.701 --> 00:12:21.668
It was exhilarating
to be downtown,
00:12:21.668 --> 00:12:25.168
walk into the courts
for a client, settle cases.
00:12:25.168 --> 00:12:29.001
In those days, and the
profession was really wonderful.
00:12:29.635 --> 00:12:32.701
Host: Rosalie Abella, a lawyer,
I'd like to ask you,
00:12:32.701 --> 00:12:34.801
what about the matrimonial home?
00:12:35.202 --> 00:12:36.768
Abella: It's a system
of separate property,
00:12:36.768 --> 00:12:38.868
and separate property
essentially means that
00:12:38.868 --> 00:12:40.501
whoever paid for it
and acquired it,
00:12:40.501 --> 00:12:43.668
and in whoever's name
that property is registered
00:12:43.668 --> 00:12:44.668
owns the property.
00:12:44.668 --> 00:12:46.601
The education started
with clients
00:12:46.601 --> 00:12:47.635
who were telling me things
00:12:47.635 --> 00:12:49.534
that were
very different realities
00:12:49.534 --> 00:12:51.801
from what I had learned
in law school from the cases.
00:12:52.302 --> 00:12:55.600
So they were my introduction
to what life was like for most
00:12:55.967 --> 00:12:57.501
women in particular.
00:12:57.501 --> 00:13:00.268
No childcare, underpaid jobs,
00:13:00.835 --> 00:13:04.768
the grind of working as a
spouse, but not being able
00:13:04.768 --> 00:13:07.935
to get a share of the property
if there was a divorce,
00:13:07.935 --> 00:13:09.868
because you didn't
contribute financially.
00:13:09.868 --> 00:13:12.401
But of course you couldn't,
because you didn't have a job.
00:13:17.835 --> 00:13:19.601
Those four years of practice
00:13:19.601 --> 00:13:21.868
introduced me to realities
that were very different
00:13:21.868 --> 00:13:23.368
from what I'd heard
about at law school,
00:13:23.368 --> 00:13:24.935
or from what I'd experienced.
00:13:24.935 --> 00:13:27.934
♪ (jazzy piano music)♪
00:13:31.136 --> 00:13:39.767
♪ Hmmmm, I've got a
crush on someone ♪
("I've Got A Crush On You"
by Ella Fitzgerald)
00:13:42.034 --> 00:13:45.701
♪ Guess, who? ♪
00:13:45.701 --> 00:13:47.401
Irving: I was a PhD student.
00:13:47.401 --> 00:13:49.534
I had just come
back from Berkeley,
00:13:50.002 --> 00:13:52.067
and here was a second-year
00:13:52.067 --> 00:13:54.102
university college student
00:13:54.102 --> 00:13:57.268
who kept following me.
No matter where I went,
00:13:57.268 --> 00:13:58.600
there was Rosie.
00:13:59.568 --> 00:14:02.068
I had a carrel desk
00:14:02.068 --> 00:14:05.601
in the second floor
of the library
00:14:05.601 --> 00:14:09.134
at the University of Toronto,
and they were reserved.
00:14:09.434 --> 00:14:11.068
And so I would go down there,
00:14:11.068 --> 00:14:13.967
sit every day, and behind me...
it was Rosie!
00:14:14.835 --> 00:14:17.002
Rosie: Sometimes doing
my own work, but mostly,
00:14:17.002 --> 00:14:19.734
just waiting for him,
so I could talk to him,
00:14:20.801 --> 00:14:22.335
ask him out for coffee.
00:14:22.335 --> 00:14:25.168
Irving: And she would wait
until I went home and said,
00:14:25.168 --> 00:14:27.034
'Can I drive you somewhere?'
(chuckles)
00:14:27.434 --> 00:14:29.002
Rosie: So I came home
and I said to my parents,
00:14:29.002 --> 00:14:30.434
I met the guy
I'm going to marry.
00:14:30.434 --> 00:14:33.767
Now, it took him three years
to agree with me
00:14:34.301 --> 00:14:36.934
that that was
a mutual proposition.
00:14:37.401 --> 00:14:40.801
But I never stopped feeling
00:14:40.801 --> 00:14:43.134
that this was the man
I wanted to spend my life with.
00:14:43.134 --> 00:14:45.434
♪ But you had such persistence ♪
00:14:45.434 --> 00:14:48.668
♪ You wore down my resistance
I fell... ♪
00:14:48.668 --> 00:14:50.700
Irving: And that was
our relationship for
00:14:51.668 --> 00:14:53.435
Rosie: 50 years!
Irving: For...
00:14:53.435 --> 00:14:56.501
for at least three years and
then I fell in love with her.
00:14:56.501 --> 00:14:57.734
Rosie: After we were married?
00:14:58.935 --> 00:15:00.735
Irving: Soon after.
Rosie: Soon after!
00:15:01.235 --> 00:15:06.534
♪ You're my big and brave
and handsome Romeo ♪
00:15:06.534 --> 00:15:08.501
♪ How I won you ♪
00:15:08.501 --> 00:15:13.234
♪ I shall never, never know ♪
00:15:13.234 --> 00:15:18.835
♪ I've got a crush on you, ♪
00:15:18.835 --> 00:15:22.401
♪ Sweetie pie,
all the day... ♪
00:15:22.401 --> 00:15:25.067
Rosie: The idea that
he would be somebody
00:15:25.067 --> 00:15:27.168
who would welcome having a wife,
00:15:27.168 --> 00:15:29.501
who was going to have a career,
and I was,
00:15:29.501 --> 00:15:30.701
and who turned out to be
00:15:30.701 --> 00:15:34.002
the most remarkable
father to our two sons.
00:15:34.002 --> 00:15:35.634
None of that is predictable.
00:15:36.668 --> 00:15:38.968
I'm in awe of
everything about him,
00:15:38.968 --> 00:15:42.601
but mostly what I'm in awe of,
is that I got him.
00:15:42.601 --> 00:15:44.402
I, I never gave up.
00:15:44.402 --> 00:15:47.235
People kept staring at
what I was doing and saying,
00:15:47.235 --> 00:15:49.734
'How can you--, he's not
interested.' I know!
00:15:50.401 --> 00:15:52.235
It's fine. I am.
00:15:52.235 --> 00:15:54.001
I'm interested enough
for both of us.
00:15:55.002 --> 00:15:59.302
♪ The world will pardon
my mush ♪
00:15:59.302 --> 00:16:01.601
Z. Abella: They are
completely sympatico.
00:16:01.601 --> 00:16:05.068
They know each other
better than any
00:16:05.068 --> 00:16:06.801
two people
could know each other.
00:16:06.801 --> 00:16:08.534
- It's hard to
explain the synergy,
00:16:08.534 --> 00:16:09.568
how they fed off each other.
00:16:09.568 --> 00:16:11.967
But he leaned in,
before anyone else did.
00:16:13.302 --> 00:16:16.902
Rosie: In our house, he is a man
who knows how to navigate,
00:16:16.902 --> 00:16:19.667
so that every single member
of the family has their turn.
00:16:20.534 --> 00:16:23.867
And he's willing
to put himself second
00:16:24.801 --> 00:16:28.268
in order for each of
our kids as they need it.
00:16:28.268 --> 00:16:29.701
Bronfman:
They are quite a couple,
00:16:29.701 --> 00:16:31.935
and it is and was,
00:16:31.935 --> 00:16:34.202
a balancing act always.
00:16:34.202 --> 00:16:36.135
Z. Abella: They knew that
my mum is a lot more
00:16:36.135 --> 00:16:39.268
front and center and
'Broadway" and my dad
00:16:40.234 --> 00:16:42.867
hung back in his way,
was quieter,
00:16:43.935 --> 00:16:47.068
Mulroney: I mean, Mila always
used to say about Rosie,
00:16:47.068 --> 00:16:49.035
Brian, look,
what do you want?
00:16:49.035 --> 00:16:51.768
Here, she's a great wife,
she's a great mother,
00:16:51.768 --> 00:16:53.568
she's a great jurist,
00:16:53.568 --> 00:16:56.434
and she plays the piano
like a concert pianist.
00:16:56.434 --> 00:16:57.700
What else do you want?
00:16:57.700 --> 00:16:59.768
(laughs)
00:16:59.768 --> 00:17:03.368
♪ (classical piano music) ♪
00:17:11.002 --> 00:17:13.035
Rosie: And he guides me.
I trust his judgment.
00:17:13.035 --> 00:17:16.468
He's the only one
I always go to for advice.
00:17:16.468 --> 00:17:18.269
The only one.
And he's never wrong.
00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:21.035
I told you that before.
He's never wrong.
00:17:21.035 --> 00:17:22.868
Irving: You're
the one who's wrong.
00:17:22.868 --> 00:17:25.301
Rosie: I know, but I wasn't
wrong in picking you.
00:17:25.301 --> 00:17:26.967
That was really smart!
00:17:30.368 --> 00:17:34.834
♪ (jazzy upbeat music) ♪
00:17:41.202 --> 00:17:43.501
Rosie: Life changes
because I get a phone call
00:17:43.501 --> 00:17:45.968
from the chief judge
of the Family Court.
00:17:46.369 --> 00:17:49.501
Reed: Family court. The place
where tears run freely
00:17:49.501 --> 00:17:53.001
and authorities make Kleenex
available everywhere.
00:17:53.001 --> 00:17:54.801
Emotions run high.
00:17:54.801 --> 00:17:58.035
This is the place where
families finally break down.
00:17:58.035 --> 00:18:00.601
Custody goes to
one parent or the other,
00:18:00.601 --> 00:18:03.835
and children must face up
to their crimes.
00:18:03.835 --> 00:18:06.002
Rosie: I was seven months
pregnant with our second son.
00:18:06.402 --> 00:18:09.134
Remember Roy McMurtry, who was
then the attorney general,
00:18:09.134 --> 00:18:10.735
whose decision it was.
00:18:10.735 --> 00:18:12.534
And I'm meeting him
in the afternoon
00:18:12.534 --> 00:18:14.102
and he looked down at
my stomach and he said,
00:18:14.102 --> 00:18:16.434
'When did that happen?'
I said, 'Seven months ago.'
00:18:16.434 --> 00:18:17.902
He said, 'Well, it's too late,
00:18:17.902 --> 00:18:20.500
I put your name before cabinet,
it's going on Monday.'
00:18:21.601 --> 00:18:24.002
They were looking
for women judges
00:18:24.002 --> 00:18:25.700
and there weren't any
on the Family Court.
00:18:26.101 --> 00:18:29.368
And so, I called my husband.
00:18:29.368 --> 00:18:30.668
He wasn't sure.
00:18:30.668 --> 00:18:33.001
He told me how much
I earned that year.
00:18:33.001 --> 00:18:34.568
I had no idea.
00:18:34.568 --> 00:18:37.401
And I was going to be
taking about a fifth.
00:18:38.034 --> 00:18:39.434
But it didn't matter.
00:18:39.434 --> 00:18:43.202
I thought it was a challenge
I couldn't resist.
00:18:43.202 --> 00:18:45.434
Host: Tonight we look at one of
the new breed of judges,
00:18:45.434 --> 00:18:47.269
Rosie Silberman Abella.
00:18:47.269 --> 00:18:49.234
Who, when she was
appointed to the bench,
00:18:49.234 --> 00:18:51.368
was the youngest woman
in that job.
00:18:51.368 --> 00:18:53.168
Rosie: But the
Family Court taught me
00:18:53.168 --> 00:18:55.435
a different level of despair,
because the people
00:18:55.435 --> 00:18:58.001
who went to the Family Court
for their family problems,
00:18:58.835 --> 00:19:01.401
were the people who usually
could not afford a lawyer.
00:19:02.401 --> 00:19:04.468
And they were the people
00:19:04.468 --> 00:19:07.268
who couldn't get a sense of
ownership in society,
00:19:07.768 --> 00:19:09.867
because they had
no access into it.
00:19:10.601 --> 00:19:14.067
They really were struggling
with their children,
00:19:14.067 --> 00:19:16.401
struggling with their spouses,
00:19:16.401 --> 00:19:18.268
struggling with poverty.
00:19:18.768 --> 00:19:21.234
I mean, I learned to listen
as a Family Court judge.
00:19:21.835 --> 00:19:25.102
I learned you don't look at
these cases from the top down,
00:19:25.102 --> 00:19:27.835
from what your life is like,
what your kids are like.
00:19:27.835 --> 00:19:30.668
What are they telling you
are the barriers
00:19:30.668 --> 00:19:34.434
to their being able to
get through their parenting,
00:19:34.434 --> 00:19:36.234
their spousal relationships?
00:19:37.168 --> 00:19:39.301
Sometimes there are
20, 30 cases a day!
00:19:39.935 --> 00:19:42.801
Making decisions
about their children,
00:19:42.801 --> 00:19:45.268
their lives, their
survival economically,
00:19:45.568 --> 00:19:48.434
that wasn't going to do harm,
if possible.
00:19:52.801 --> 00:19:54.035
That's where I learned
00:19:54.035 --> 00:19:56.568
that law isn't just about rules.
00:19:56.568 --> 00:19:59.101
Justice is about
the application of
00:19:59.101 --> 00:20:00.834
the rules to life.
00:20:00.834 --> 00:20:02.635
Is it wise?
00:20:02.635 --> 00:20:04.334
Not how smart
you are as a judge.
00:20:04.334 --> 00:20:05.934
Are you wise as a judge?
00:20:08.002 --> 00:20:12.268
That was an intense year
where I learned
00:20:12.268 --> 00:20:15.067
about a whole other range
of vulnerability
00:20:15.568 --> 00:20:17.635
and disadvantage
that I had not been
00:20:18.202 --> 00:20:20.735
exposed to either
in law school or in life.
00:20:21.068 --> 00:20:23.968
And that changed me.
So everything I've done
00:20:23.968 --> 00:20:26.268
that exposed me
to something different
00:20:26.268 --> 00:20:27.668
from what I know,
00:20:27.668 --> 00:20:29.101
made it easier for me
00:20:29.568 --> 00:20:31.935
as it turned out,
to do the next thing.
00:20:31.935 --> 00:20:37.334
♪ (upbeat jazz music) ♪
00:20:37.334 --> 00:20:39.101
I did not know
00:20:39.101 --> 00:20:40.768
if this was going to work.
00:20:40.768 --> 00:20:43.834
Having children and a career
and I'm a workaholic,
00:20:44.668 --> 00:20:46.635
so I figured out early on,
00:20:46.635 --> 00:20:48.801
I came home every day for dinner
00:20:48.801 --> 00:20:50.301
and then I went back downtown
00:20:50.768 --> 00:20:53.467
to finish my work every night
after the kids were in bed.
00:20:56.268 --> 00:20:58.635
- Abella home video tape.
00:20:58.635 --> 00:20:59.968
Tell me about the
Abella mystique?
00:20:59.968 --> 00:21:01.635
Irving: The Abella's
have never made a mistake
00:21:01.635 --> 00:21:04.302
in their lives. It's part
of the Abella mystique
00:21:04.302 --> 00:21:06.868
not to make mistakes.
So there is no Abella mistake.
00:21:06.868 --> 00:21:09.635
And the only mistake we had
was in buying somebody a camera.
00:21:10.835 --> 00:21:12.668
Z. Abella: She was
home as much as possible.
00:21:12.668 --> 00:21:15.167
I used to joke, because it
was an easy laugh line
00:21:15.167 --> 00:21:17.001
that she wasn't home that often.
00:21:17.001 --> 00:21:18.369
But the truth is, she was.
00:21:18.369 --> 00:21:20.135
J. Abella: It's extraordinary
because I try and think of that,
00:21:20.135 --> 00:21:22.134
you know, as I entered
parenthood and as I,
00:21:22.534 --> 00:21:24.501
you know, tried to juggle
work and one kid,
00:21:24.501 --> 00:21:26.835
how she was able
to do everything she did
00:21:26.835 --> 00:21:28.735
and still make both
my brother and I feel like
00:21:28.735 --> 00:21:30.735
we were quite literally
the center of the universe.
00:21:30.735 --> 00:21:33.401
Z. Abella: And people usually
have difficulty believing that
00:21:33.401 --> 00:21:35.768
we could have had
such a normal home life.
00:21:35.768 --> 00:21:37.534
But we did,
and that was by design.
00:21:37.534 --> 00:21:40.701
They didn't want us to have any
00:21:40.701 --> 00:21:43.334
really external pressures beyond
00:21:43.334 --> 00:21:45.533
just growing up
in Toronto and being
00:21:46.167 --> 00:21:47.501
successful.
00:21:47.501 --> 00:21:50.734
♪ (jazzy music) ♪
00:21:55.202 --> 00:21:57.735
J. Abella: Can you please go
away? I have work to do, please?
00:21:57.735 --> 00:22:00.167
My mother was a very
wonderful and present mother,
00:22:00.167 --> 00:22:02.035
despite having a career.
00:22:02.035 --> 00:22:04.401
But my father,
he really stepped up.
00:22:04.401 --> 00:22:06.201
I mean, he played
such an incredible
00:22:06.201 --> 00:22:07.401
and important role
in raising us.
00:22:07.401 --> 00:22:08.668
Rosie: He never said,
'Just a second,
00:22:08.668 --> 00:22:09.835
I have to finish this book.'
00:22:09.835 --> 00:22:12.768
EVER! He was 100%
00:22:12.768 --> 00:22:15.433
available to all of us.
To all three of us.
00:22:16.534 --> 00:22:18.568
Irving: As an academic,
I could do that
00:22:18.568 --> 00:22:21.434
while Rosie was out
doing what she had to do.
00:22:21.434 --> 00:22:23.568
And then when I was busy,
she would take over.
00:22:23.568 --> 00:22:26.268
So there was a
a mixture of foreground
00:22:26.268 --> 00:22:28.068
and background
for the two of us.
00:22:28.068 --> 00:22:29.935
J. Abella: The way she was
able to do it in a way
00:22:29.935 --> 00:22:31.968
that we never felt neglected,
that she was always present.
00:22:31.968 --> 00:22:34.601
And, and she made extraordinary
sacrifices for that.
00:22:34.601 --> 00:22:36.335
You know, people look at her
career and think, well,
00:22:36.335 --> 00:22:38.535
you know, it's just a,
a continuous trajectory.
00:22:38.535 --> 00:22:41.501
It's not. She turned things down
so that she could be with us.
00:22:41.501 --> 00:22:43.035
She would actually
not go to things
00:22:43.035 --> 00:22:44.601
that could have been
important for her career,
00:22:44.601 --> 00:22:46.268
so she could just
have dinner with us.
00:22:48.401 --> 00:22:49.935
Rosie: And I kept
my fingers crossed
00:22:49.935 --> 00:22:52.735
that they would be nice people
and that they would
00:22:52.735 --> 00:22:55.567
be happy people
and that I wasn't a barrier
00:22:56.034 --> 00:22:58.135
to their self-fulfillment.
00:22:58.135 --> 00:23:00.101
Z. Abella: They want us to be
kids and they want us to be
00:23:00.101 --> 00:23:01.301
young adults in that household.
00:23:01.301 --> 00:23:03.202
And they didn't want us to be
00:23:03.202 --> 00:23:05.801
'the son' of the President of
the Canadian Jewish Congress,
00:23:05.801 --> 00:23:06.968
and 'the son' of a judge.
00:23:06.968 --> 00:23:09.135
They just wanted us
to be normal kids.
00:23:09.135 --> 00:23:11.835
And to their great
credit, we were.
00:23:11.835 --> 00:23:14.768
J. Abella: There was never
any sense, 'thou shalt,
00:23:14.768 --> 00:23:17.201
you must go forth and make
the world a better place.'
00:23:17.201 --> 00:23:18.668
I would say
it was an expectation
00:23:18.668 --> 00:23:20.035
that underlay everything.
00:23:20.035 --> 00:23:21.668
It came out
pretty much all the time.
00:23:21.668 --> 00:23:23.768
That you didn't think about it
because that's who
00:23:23.768 --> 00:23:25.968
they wanted us to be.
That's who they were.
00:23:25.968 --> 00:23:28.468
And, and that has
forever driven me.
00:23:28.468 --> 00:23:30.701
Rosie: I can say it.
They are wonderful people.
00:23:30.701 --> 00:23:32.867
And they got wonderful
families of their own.
00:23:32.867 --> 00:23:35.001
♪ (jazzy music) ♪
00:23:39.334 --> 00:23:42.434
♪ (soft piano music) ♪
00:23:46.601 --> 00:23:47.968
Anchor:
A Royal Commission report
00:23:47.968 --> 00:23:50.102
told the federal government
it had to increase
00:23:50.102 --> 00:23:52.701
employment opportunities
for women and for minorities.
00:23:52.701 --> 00:23:54.368
Today, the government
said it will.
00:23:54.368 --> 00:23:56.635
Baigent: In the
1980s, she wrote
00:23:56.635 --> 00:23:58.201
the Equality Report
00:23:58.201 --> 00:24:00.468
on Equality In Employment.
00:24:01.068 --> 00:24:04.035
Anchor: Here's an indication
of how sensitive the issue is.
00:24:04.035 --> 00:24:07.268
Judge Abella rejects the term
affirmative action.
00:24:07.268 --> 00:24:10.334
She prefers employment equity.
00:24:10.735 --> 00:24:13.601
We didn't have a definition
of equality in this country
00:24:13.601 --> 00:24:15.902
until the
Royal Commission report.
00:24:15.902 --> 00:24:18.034
And I had to figure out
what equality meant.
00:24:18.034 --> 00:24:19.700
We had not yet decided it.
00:24:21.568 --> 00:24:24.234
Mulroney: Canada was
in many ways, you know,
00:24:24.234 --> 00:24:26.167
pretty Neanderthal.
00:24:26.167 --> 00:24:27.967
And Rosie appeared
00:24:28.735 --> 00:24:32.168
determined to cause us to,
to break out of this.
00:24:32.168 --> 00:24:33.701
Rosie:
If in this ongoing process,
00:24:33.701 --> 00:24:36.168
we are not always sure
what equality means.
00:24:36.168 --> 00:24:38.401
Most of us have a good
understanding of what is fair.
00:24:39.135 --> 00:24:41.601
And what is happening today
in Canada to women,
00:24:41.601 --> 00:24:43.835
native people, disabled persons,
00:24:43.835 --> 00:24:46.368
and many racial and ethnic
minorities, is not fair.
00:24:46.368 --> 00:24:49.002
That was a one year,
$1 million study
00:24:49.002 --> 00:24:52.068
into those four groups,
60% of the population.
00:24:52.068 --> 00:24:54.102
And I had to figure out
what equality meant.
00:24:54.102 --> 00:24:56.269
Condon: She has sort of
understood the particularities
00:24:56.269 --> 00:25:00.102
of women's experience, both
with respect to the work world,
00:25:00.102 --> 00:25:03.768
but also caregiving and other
kinds of family obligations.
00:25:04.135 --> 00:25:06.401
Minow: Take the example
of parental leave.
00:25:06.835 --> 00:25:09.101
You could treat men and women
the same by saying,
00:25:09.101 --> 00:25:10.835
'No one gets parenting leave.'
00:25:11.502 --> 00:25:15.135
But she says, 'No, there's a
reason why parenting leave
00:25:15.135 --> 00:25:17.601
is a special issue for
women more than men.'
00:25:17.601 --> 00:25:20.568
That has to do with society
and how society has structured
00:25:20.935 --> 00:25:22.968
the parenting role.
And therefore,
00:25:22.968 --> 00:25:25.301
the equality solution has to be,
00:25:25.301 --> 00:25:26.967
everybody gets parenting leave.
00:25:28.468 --> 00:25:30.501
Rosie: Which is why, of course,
00:25:30.501 --> 00:25:32.601
I ended up deciding that
00:25:32.601 --> 00:25:35.335
if we're going to define
equality in this country,
00:25:35.335 --> 00:25:38.500
it's not about a level playing
field, because there isn't one.
00:25:40.768 --> 00:25:43.102
And so I came up with the idea
00:25:43.102 --> 00:25:45.768
that you have to think
of equality as acknowledging
00:25:46.102 --> 00:25:48.501
and accommodating
people's differences,
00:25:48.501 --> 00:25:51.067
so they can...
be treated as equals.
00:25:51.067 --> 00:25:52.967
♪ (gentle music) ♪
00:25:56.469 --> 00:25:59.468
You don't build a ramp for
somebody who's in a wheelchair,
00:25:59.468 --> 00:26:01.668
they're not going to be able
to get access.
00:26:01.668 --> 00:26:03.735
But if you treat them
like everybody else,
00:26:03.735 --> 00:26:05.967
treat them the same
as an able-bodied person,
00:26:06.534 --> 00:26:07.835
they don't get a ramp.
00:26:07.835 --> 00:26:10.401
So I think we figured out
equality in this country
00:26:10.401 --> 00:26:11.801
better than any other country.
00:26:11.801 --> 00:26:14.501
Baigent: Concepts like
substantive equality
00:26:14.501 --> 00:26:17.734
and systemic discrimination
came from that report.
00:26:19.035 --> 00:26:21.302
Z. Abella: I remember at the
time how controversial it was,
00:26:21.302 --> 00:26:23.068
and the terrible things
that people were saying.
00:26:23.068 --> 00:26:24.668
Wallace: I have been
reading the report.
00:26:24.668 --> 00:26:26.202
Rather than listening
to Judge Abella,
00:26:26.202 --> 00:26:29.167
and my conclusion is this, this
Royal commission
00:26:29.167 --> 00:26:30.568
was a scandalous waste
00:26:30.568 --> 00:26:31.801
of taxpayer's money.
00:26:31.801 --> 00:26:34.134
Mulroney:
This was quite a, quite a...
00:26:34.134 --> 00:26:36.334
an advanced theory at the time.
00:26:36.701 --> 00:26:40.269
She met resistance
in Caucus and in Cabinet.
00:26:40.269 --> 00:26:42.368
Nystrom: Where are the
goals in this--in her,
00:26:42.368 --> 00:26:44.569
in her statement
for employment equity?
00:26:44.569 --> 00:26:47.635
Where are the targets in her
statement for employment equity?
00:26:48.068 --> 00:26:51.835
Where is the timetable in terms
of imposing employment equity
00:26:51.835 --> 00:26:53.735
in the country,
in this country of Canada?
00:26:53.735 --> 00:26:57.534
Rosie: Universally, all of my,
'my protectors' said,
00:26:57.534 --> 00:27:01.234
'Don't do this. This is,
this is really controversial.'
00:27:01.234 --> 00:27:03.234
Really? Controversial?
00:27:03.234 --> 00:27:05.601
Difficult? Complicated?
00:27:05.601 --> 00:27:08.302
I'll do it. And so I did.
00:27:08.302 --> 00:27:12.468
And it was...a disastrous
reception that I got.
00:27:12.468 --> 00:27:15.067
Hale: The entire analysis
that Judge
00:27:15.735 --> 00:27:18.835
Abella has taken has been
appallingly one-sided.
00:27:19.102 --> 00:27:21.302
Rosie: Every newspaper
in the country from one end
00:27:21.302 --> 00:27:23.901
of the country to the other
said, 'This is terrible.
00:27:24.434 --> 00:27:26.735
This is reverse discrimination.'
00:27:26.735 --> 00:27:31.568
And I used to say, 'No,
it's not reverse discrimination,
00:27:31.568 --> 00:27:33.868
it's reversing discrimination.'
00:27:33.868 --> 00:27:36.601
- Just absolutely
spectacular report
00:27:36.601 --> 00:27:38.067
that transformed the thinking
00:27:38.401 --> 00:27:41.068
about how equality
is treated in the law.
00:27:41.369 --> 00:27:43.269
Rosie: The requirement
that we are recommending
00:27:43.269 --> 00:27:45.601
be imposed on federally
regulated employers
00:27:45.601 --> 00:27:48.468
is that they examine
their workplace practices
00:27:48.468 --> 00:27:50.568
and take steps to
eliminate those barriers,
00:27:50.568 --> 00:27:52.868
which disproportionately
and negatively affect
00:27:52.868 --> 00:27:54.867
members of the four groups.
00:27:56.534 --> 00:27:58.735
If we'd had a merit system
all along,
00:27:59.302 --> 00:28:01.801
a lot of these people
that had been excluded,
00:28:01.801 --> 00:28:03.867
would have been
there in the first place.
00:28:04.868 --> 00:28:07.134
Mulroney: I was very
impressed at what she had done,
00:28:07.601 --> 00:28:10.601
and so I called
in for MacDonald,
00:28:10.601 --> 00:28:12.468
who was Employment Minister
at the time,
00:28:12.468 --> 00:28:15.335
and told Flora, I thought
we should get this done.
00:28:15.335 --> 00:28:18.434
- There's no question that
the case for equality
00:28:18.434 --> 00:28:20.868
has been made certainly
by Judge Abella,
00:28:20.868 --> 00:28:23.968
and it's, it's certainly
accepted by this government.
00:28:23.968 --> 00:28:25.434
Z. Abella:
A Conservative government
00:28:25.434 --> 00:28:28.134
in Canada...adopted that.
00:28:28.468 --> 00:28:30.601
That doesn't happen very often.
00:28:30.601 --> 00:28:32.468
Mulroney: This is not a partisan
issue.
00:28:32.468 --> 00:28:34.334
Fairness for women,
(applause)
00:28:34.334 --> 00:28:35.967
is something that concerns
us all.
00:28:35.967 --> 00:28:38.168
(applause)
00:28:38.168 --> 00:28:40.434
Clark: She is a very
appropriate expression
00:28:40.434 --> 00:28:41.834
of what equality means.
00:28:42.268 --> 00:28:44.168
She doesn't only fight for it,
00:28:44.168 --> 00:28:46.701
she represents
what at its best it can be.
00:28:46.701 --> 00:28:49.834
- And it's influenced Equality
Law all over the world.
00:28:52.935 --> 00:28:55.102
Rosie: But am I proud
of the role I've played
00:28:55.102 --> 00:28:56.601
in equality rights
in this country?
00:28:56.601 --> 00:28:57.601
Oh, yes!
00:29:02.434 --> 00:29:04.735
Z. Abella: You could make
a legitimate argument
00:29:04.735 --> 00:29:06.835
that for at least
a couple of decades,
00:29:06.835 --> 00:29:08.601
there was an open question on
00:29:08.601 --> 00:29:10.668
who was more well-known
than the other?
00:29:10.668 --> 00:29:12.601
In certain neighborhoods
in Toronto,
00:29:12.601 --> 00:29:14.334
he was certainly more
high-profile than she was.
00:29:20.735 --> 00:29:22.768
- Today, we'll chat with
Professor Irving Abella,
00:29:22.768 --> 00:29:26.167
the co-author of the recent
bestseller 'None Is too Many.'
00:29:26.902 --> 00:29:29.368
Rosie: Canada, as you know,
from 'None Is Too Many',
00:29:29.368 --> 00:29:32.468
was not allowing in Jews
until 1948.
00:29:33.369 --> 00:29:35.868
Irving: This was the most
difficult book that I ever did.
00:29:36.335 --> 00:29:38.701
There were times
when we sat in the archives,
00:29:38.701 --> 00:29:40.735
I was crying in frustration.
00:29:40.735 --> 00:29:42.401
On the other hand, we felt that
00:29:42.401 --> 00:29:44.668
we had an entire
generation of people,
00:29:44.668 --> 00:29:46.902
looking over our shoulders
as we were writing.
00:29:46.902 --> 00:29:48.434
We had their story to tell.
00:29:51.268 --> 00:29:54.101
Rosie: I'm in awe of his
00:29:54.101 --> 00:29:57.668
dignified, courageous stoicism,
00:29:57.668 --> 00:29:59.834
which is wrapped in
the best brain I've ever met.
00:30:01.002 --> 00:30:03.368
I don't write a
lecture or a speech
00:30:03.368 --> 00:30:06.668
that I don't run
the ideas past him.
00:30:06.968 --> 00:30:10.468
When I have a case, I will
discuss it with him often,
00:30:10.868 --> 00:30:12.735
especially if I'm
about to do something
00:30:12.735 --> 00:30:14.668
that I know is going
to get me into trouble.
00:30:14.668 --> 00:30:17.301
And he will almost always
00:30:17.301 --> 00:30:19.234
weigh in on the side of
00:30:19.701 --> 00:30:21.368
creative pragmatism.
00:30:22.368 --> 00:30:24.768
I was at a drugstore and I said,
00:30:24.768 --> 00:30:27.235
I'm here to pick up the
medication for Irving Abella
00:30:27.235 --> 00:30:30.301
and a woman who must have
been about 60 years old
00:30:30.301 --> 00:30:31.835
came up to me and said,
00:30:31.835 --> 00:30:33.668
'The Irving Abella?'
00:30:33.668 --> 00:30:38.202
And I said, 'I don-- who,
who do you-- I think so?
00:30:38.202 --> 00:30:39.868
And she said, 'The man who
wrote the book?
00:30:39.868 --> 00:30:41.501
My mother has that book.
00:30:41.501 --> 00:30:44.101
Oh, my God, he is amazing!
00:30:44.101 --> 00:30:45.534
You know him?'
00:30:45.534 --> 00:30:47.935
I said, 'Yes, I'm his wife.'
00:30:47.935 --> 00:30:50.102
'Wow. Well, tell him
I think he's great.'
00:30:50.102 --> 00:30:53.368
And I'm thinking, 'she hasn't
got a clue who I am.'
00:30:54.701 --> 00:30:56.268
Itchy, how are you feeling?
00:30:56.268 --> 00:30:57.935
Irving: (off-camera)
Great.
00:30:57.935 --> 00:30:59.767
I like the part
about me especially.
00:30:59.767 --> 00:31:01.568
(laughter)
00:31:01.568 --> 00:31:03.901
Rosie: See? Ah!
Irving: (talking off-camera)
00:31:03.901 --> 00:31:04.967
Rosie: (sighs)
00:31:06.268 --> 00:31:09.601
♪ (stately music) ♪
00:31:09.601 --> 00:31:11.167
Anchor: Live from Ottawa.
00:31:11.735 --> 00:31:13.301
Encounter 88.
00:31:14.601 --> 00:31:17.101
An exchange of views by the
leaders of Canada's
00:31:17.101 --> 00:31:19.135
three major political parties
00:31:19.135 --> 00:31:20.867
on the issues of the
Federal Election.
00:31:21.801 --> 00:31:24.568
Rosie: Tonight, the leaders of
Canada's three political parties
00:31:24.568 --> 00:31:26.835
will have an opportunity
to confront one another,
00:31:26.835 --> 00:31:30.101
exchange views and share their
vision with you.
00:31:30.434 --> 00:31:31.768
Rosie: Why did they pick me?
00:31:31.768 --> 00:31:34.568
Probably for the same reason I
got picked for a lot of things
00:31:34.568 --> 00:31:35.934
in the '70s and '80s.
00:31:36.334 --> 00:31:37.967
We've never had a woman yet.
00:31:38.968 --> 00:31:41.268
And they always knew if they
called me to do something,
00:31:41.268 --> 00:31:42.668
I would always say yes.
00:31:42.668 --> 00:31:44.235
Mulroney:
This is not an easy thing,
00:31:44.235 --> 00:31:48.002
to handle Turner, Mulroney and
Broadbent in a major debate
00:31:48.002 --> 00:31:50.435
that was going to shape
the future of Canada.
00:31:50.435 --> 00:31:52.801
Rosie: And I couldn't walk.
My knees were shaking.
00:31:52.801 --> 00:31:54.768
The participants have agreed
that the moderator
00:31:54.768 --> 00:31:56.968
can intervene,
where appropriate,
00:31:56.968 --> 00:31:59.334
to enforce the rules
as fairly as possible.
00:31:59.935 --> 00:32:02.334
I know there are a lot of
caveats in that explanation,
00:32:02.334 --> 00:32:04.134
but I think you can't
expect anything else
00:32:04.134 --> 00:32:05.668
from a moderator who's a lawyer.
00:32:05.668 --> 00:32:08.868
But what I do remember
was having to cut off
00:32:08.868 --> 00:32:11.168
Brian Mulroney,
the Prime Minister at the time.
00:32:11.168 --> 00:32:12.369
Mulroney: It's
something to be proud of
00:32:12.369 --> 00:32:14.369
and you should not involve...
Rosie: Mr. Mulroney,
00:32:14.369 --> 00:32:16.835
...battered women with a
question of patronage.
R. Abella: I'm sorry to
interrupt, Mr. Mulroney.
00:32:16.835 --> 00:32:18.068
It would be a lot easier
00:32:18.068 --> 00:32:19.635
if we could hear
one of you at a time.
00:32:19.635 --> 00:32:22.302
And then I let them go
during the Free Trade debate.
00:32:22.302 --> 00:32:24.401
This was something
the whole country was watching.
00:32:24.401 --> 00:32:26.668
(heated cross-talking)
00:32:26.668 --> 00:32:28.369
(heated cross-talking)
Rosie: Gentlemen--
00:32:28.369 --> 00:32:31.669
(heated cross-talking)
Excuse me, gentlemen, it's
not fair to either position.
00:32:31.669 --> 00:32:33.335
(heated cross-talking)
Gentlemen,
I'm going to ask you, please,
00:32:33.335 --> 00:32:35.534
(heated cross-talking)
we can't hear either
one of you when you're both--
00:32:35.534 --> 00:32:39.134
And I called my mother
and I said, 'How did it go?'
00:32:40.368 --> 00:32:41.700
And she said,
00:32:42.968 --> 00:32:44.835
'You cut off the
Prime Minister.'
00:32:44.835 --> 00:32:46.167
Mulroney:
And I think that the federal--
00:32:46.167 --> 00:32:47.801
Rosie: Prime Minister Mulroney--
00:32:47.801 --> 00:32:49.235
Thank you Mr. Mulroney.
00:32:49.235 --> 00:32:51.202
Mr. Mulroney, I'm going to ask
you to wind up now, please,
00:32:51.202 --> 00:32:53.401
so I can give Mr. Broadbent
an opportunity to reply.
Mulroney: I'm sorry.
00:32:53.401 --> 00:32:56.001
Rosie: And I remember
being heart sick,
00:32:56.001 --> 00:32:58.701
that my mother was worried
00:32:58.701 --> 00:33:02.101
about what was going to
happen to me, because I cut off
00:33:02.701 --> 00:33:05.135
the Prime Minister in a debate.
00:33:05.135 --> 00:33:08.268
Mulroney: I thought she did it
with aplomb and certainty
00:33:08.902 --> 00:33:11.401
and good humor.
And I kept my eye on her.
00:33:11.401 --> 00:33:14.902
Rosie: 1992, Brian Mulroney
appointed me
00:33:14.902 --> 00:33:16.067
to the Court of Appeal.
00:33:16.067 --> 00:33:18.568
♪ (stately music) ♪
00:33:24.534 --> 00:33:27.202
And I admired that,
because the Court of Appeal
00:33:27.202 --> 00:33:30.968
was the most distinguished
court in the country.
00:33:30.968 --> 00:33:33.269
Mulroney: As you know,
all appointments
00:33:33.269 --> 00:33:36.435
to the Courts of Appeal are made
directly by the Prime Minister.
00:33:36.435 --> 00:33:40.202
So when it came time to elevate
Rosie to the Court of Appeal,
00:33:40.202 --> 00:33:43.534
I was convinced that she was
the best person for the job.
00:33:44.035 --> 00:33:46.767
And that was it. Rosie went
to the Court of Appeal.
00:33:51.635 --> 00:33:54.668
J. Abella: My mother was
of a different world
00:33:54.668 --> 00:33:56.402
and she was
pro-human rights person,
00:33:56.402 --> 00:33:59.202
she was a pro-equality person,
she believed in inclusion.
00:33:59.202 --> 00:34:01.735
She believed in equality
of opportunity.
00:34:01.735 --> 00:34:03.834
And, and, yes, there was
a lot of criticism.
00:34:04.534 --> 00:34:06.469
Mulroney: There are
a lot of smug Canadians,
00:34:06.469 --> 00:34:09.901
who say, 'we're a gentle,
thoughtful, generous people.'
00:34:10.268 --> 00:34:11.501
Not always.
00:34:11.501 --> 00:34:13.600
You know, they're,
we've got our own
00:34:14.167 --> 00:34:16.801
bunch of morons in the country
00:34:17.235 --> 00:34:19.501
and they, they surface
at times like this.
00:34:19.968 --> 00:34:22.035
And when Rosie was appointed,
00:34:22.035 --> 00:34:23.768
I got a lot of
correspondence about it
00:34:23.768 --> 00:34:25.868
from some of the haters,
you know,
00:34:25.868 --> 00:34:27.568
and they didn't like the idea.
00:34:27.568 --> 00:34:30.334
They didn't like her
ideological bent.
00:34:30.334 --> 00:34:31.434
They didn't like her career,
00:34:32.135 --> 00:34:34.701
and they didn't like the fact
that she was a woman.
00:34:34.701 --> 00:34:37.002
And they didn't like the fact
that she was Jewish.
00:34:37.002 --> 00:34:38.801
Irving: I'll tell
you how bad it was.
00:34:38.801 --> 00:34:42.468
Our son Zachary would
get up in the morning
00:34:42.468 --> 00:34:44.768
when the papers were delivered
before Rosie got up,
00:34:45.335 --> 00:34:48.534
and he would go through them
quickly to see if anybody had
00:34:48.534 --> 00:34:50.534
anything to say about his mother
00:34:50.534 --> 00:34:52.935
that was unfair and critical,
00:34:52.935 --> 00:34:55.901
and removed them so that
when Rosie read the paper,
00:34:56.534 --> 00:34:58.101
there were articles missing.
00:34:59.135 --> 00:35:01.835
Z. Abella: She is brilliant
and people know that now,
00:35:01.835 --> 00:35:04.601
and they knew that then. But
they were people who, I guess,
00:35:04.601 --> 00:35:07.035
for whatever reason,
wanted to act like
00:35:07.035 --> 00:35:10.068
this intellectual heavyweight
was a social climber.
00:35:10.068 --> 00:35:12.368
And that hurt all of us,
because it wasn't true.
00:35:13.434 --> 00:35:15.835
Mulroney:
It was more ideological.
00:35:15.835 --> 00:35:18.035
You know, look, we're a
Conservative Government,
00:35:18.035 --> 00:35:20.434
Prime Minister.
What are we doing appointing
00:35:20.434 --> 00:35:24.534
a notorious leftist to,
to an important position
00:35:24.902 --> 00:35:27.369
in the Canadian judiciary?
00:35:27.369 --> 00:35:30.568
And I said, well, she doesn't
look like a leftist to me.
00:35:31.202 --> 00:35:33.568
She looks like a
talented, young woman
00:35:33.568 --> 00:35:35.502
who's made a career in the law.
00:35:35.502 --> 00:35:38.168
And I know her for her good
judgment and her good humor.
00:35:38.168 --> 00:35:40.668
And what the hell more
do you want from,
00:35:40.668 --> 00:35:42.867
from a, from a Judge?
00:35:42.867 --> 00:35:44.701
(laughs)
00:35:44.701 --> 00:35:48.401
- She demonstrated a capacity
to deal with difficult
00:35:48.401 --> 00:35:51.902
legal issues, to be able
to write decisions
00:35:51.902 --> 00:35:54.701
which earned
the support
00:35:54.701 --> 00:35:56.167
of her colleagues
on the court.
00:35:56.601 --> 00:35:59.067
Rosie: I just never,
never thought about
00:35:59.768 --> 00:36:02.868
writing letters or
criticizing people publicly.
00:36:02.868 --> 00:36:04.269
To this day, I haven't.
00:36:04.269 --> 00:36:07.967
Because those reviews,
they were entitled to have.
00:36:07.967 --> 00:36:11.268
♪ (soft piano music) ♪
00:36:15.668 --> 00:36:18.168
Beaucage: I knew that
she had written
00:36:18.168 --> 00:36:20.501
the unanimous court
decision in Rosenberg,
00:36:20.501 --> 00:36:22.735
that allowed same-sex couples
to be able to
00:36:22.735 --> 00:36:24.501
give their pensions
to their spouse.
00:36:29.469 --> 00:36:32.301
Rosie: When I wrote a decision
in a case called Rosenberg,
00:36:32.968 --> 00:36:36.668
which said that the provisions
of the Income Tax Act,
00:36:36.668 --> 00:36:39.368
which only allowed you
to leave pension benefits
00:36:39.368 --> 00:36:41.701
to 'opposite sex' spouses,
00:36:42.502 --> 00:36:45.767
I wrote the decision and
read in the words 'or same sex'.
00:36:46.301 --> 00:36:48.434
- We got pension rights
00:36:48.868 --> 00:36:51.167
recognized as a couple.
00:36:51.768 --> 00:36:54.134
It was everything for us.
00:36:55.269 --> 00:36:57.168
- This is another way
in which human rights
00:36:57.168 --> 00:36:59.568
need to be validated
and to be advanced.
00:36:59.568 --> 00:37:01.468
The way in which law
should recognize
00:37:01.468 --> 00:37:04.301
the equality of people
based on their sexuality.
00:37:04.301 --> 00:37:05.935
Rosie:
And that's what judges can do
00:37:05.935 --> 00:37:07.801
in the protection of rights.
00:37:07.801 --> 00:37:11.035
They can take chances
with public opinion.
00:37:11.035 --> 00:37:14.334
In fact, they are obliged to
take chances with public opinion
00:37:14.701 --> 00:37:19.334
if they think that's the right
way to go constitutionally.
00:37:19.668 --> 00:37:23.534
Now, are there people who felt
differently? Yes, of course!
00:37:23.534 --> 00:37:25.134
But there's only
one way to measure
00:37:25.134 --> 00:37:26.867
whether that decision was right.
00:37:27.301 --> 00:37:28.533
And that was time.
00:37:35.868 --> 00:37:37.835
P. Mansbridge: To Ottawa now,
on the death of a man
00:37:37.835 --> 00:37:39.368
the Prime Minister
described today,
00:37:39.368 --> 00:37:41.501
as one of the finest jurists
in the country.
00:37:41.902 --> 00:37:45.002
Supreme Court Justice
John Sopinka died suddenly
00:37:45.002 --> 00:37:47.034
this morning,
after a short illness.
00:37:47.034 --> 00:37:48.700
He was 64 years old.
00:37:50.268 --> 00:37:52.368
Rosie: John Sopinka died
00:37:53.302 --> 00:37:56.201
and suddenly there was a vacancy
no one had expected
00:37:56.201 --> 00:37:57.701
on the Supreme Court of Canada.
00:37:57.701 --> 00:38:02.001
And the candidacies
were expected to be
00:38:02.001 --> 00:38:04.369
Court of Appeal Judges.
00:38:04.369 --> 00:38:07.635
I mean, that was the natural
farm team for appointments
00:38:07.635 --> 00:38:10.201
from Ontario to
the Supreme Court of Canada.
00:38:12.302 --> 00:38:15.635
I would say it was
a period of hyper-activity
00:38:15.635 --> 00:38:18.268
on the part of people
who were promoting particular
00:38:19.068 --> 00:38:20.968
candidates
for the Supreme Court.
00:38:20.968 --> 00:38:22.700
And it was an awkward time.
00:38:23.468 --> 00:38:26.134
And I was somebody
whose name was
00:38:26.134 --> 00:38:28.935
um...out there and I,
00:38:28.935 --> 00:38:32.701
I was a lawyer and a judge
who was shifting borders.
00:38:33.402 --> 00:38:37.202
All the legal boundaries in
so many areas were changing.
00:38:37.202 --> 00:38:41.001
But when you change boundaries,
you change expectations.
00:38:41.001 --> 00:38:42.401
And when you change
00:38:42.401 --> 00:38:45.401
expectations,
some people are happy
00:38:45.868 --> 00:38:47.801
because they've now
been included,
00:38:47.801 --> 00:38:50.102
and some people
are unhappy because
00:38:50.102 --> 00:38:52.735
more people have been included
in something they thought
00:38:52.735 --> 00:38:54.634
they were
exclusively entitled to.
00:38:56.068 --> 00:38:58.902
So, being known as somebody
who changed boundaries
00:38:58.902 --> 00:39:00.635
was not an application form for,
00:39:00.635 --> 00:39:02.568
for a promotion
to the Supreme Court of Canada.
00:39:07.202 --> 00:39:09.767
What I read in the press was,
'She doesn't have a chance.
00:39:10.368 --> 00:39:12.968
She's too controversial.'
00:39:12.968 --> 00:39:14.935
Z. Abella: There were stuff
that was said about her
00:39:14.935 --> 00:39:18.002
that simply was
not true or fair.
00:39:18.002 --> 00:39:19.835
J. Abella:
Here she was being mooted
00:39:19.835 --> 00:39:21.701
for something
that she was not seeking,
00:39:21.701 --> 00:39:23.801
and suddenly people
were attacking her for it.
00:39:24.135 --> 00:39:25.468
Z. Abella: They thought
that she had friends
00:39:25.468 --> 00:39:28.835
in the right circles.
She was very social,
00:39:28.835 --> 00:39:32.134
but she lacked maybe the
intellectual rigor
00:39:32.134 --> 00:39:33.534
to be on the Supreme Court.
00:39:33.534 --> 00:39:36.335
Rosie: Was only painful,
I guess, when it was public,
00:39:36.335 --> 00:39:38.834
when it hit the press.
But again, what can you say?
00:39:40.002 --> 00:39:42.501
It's fair to say that I was one
of the first people
00:39:42.501 --> 00:39:44.135
to call Ian Binnie,
00:39:44.135 --> 00:39:48.934
who is an outstanding lawyer
and judge and highly qualified.
00:39:49.601 --> 00:39:52.935
And I was fearlessly
doing all of the things
00:39:52.935 --> 00:39:55.102
that I'd done in my
whole legal career,
00:39:55.102 --> 00:39:58.168
because it never even
occurred to me to be careful
00:39:58.168 --> 00:40:00.801
and monitor my
activities in a way
00:40:00.801 --> 00:40:02.968
that would tailor them
to the possibility
00:40:02.968 --> 00:40:04.334
of going to the Supreme Court.
00:40:05.635 --> 00:40:09.502
♪ (jazzy music) ♪
00:40:09.502 --> 00:40:13.635
Atwood: So she's a collector of
very bright, peculiar objects.
00:40:13.635 --> 00:40:16.601
Very unusual,
both in wardrobe choices
00:40:16.601 --> 00:40:18.668
and in accoutrements.
00:40:19.035 --> 00:40:21.768
Rosie: We're in the living room
of the house we've occupied,
00:40:21.768 --> 00:40:24.202
since we bought it in 1971.
00:40:24.202 --> 00:40:27.635
And all of these things
that we've collected,
00:40:27.635 --> 00:40:29.534
we used to buy each other art.
00:40:29.534 --> 00:40:30.968
So what you see on the walls
00:40:30.968 --> 00:40:33.868
are part of
our anniversary presents.
00:40:33.868 --> 00:40:35.534
- And if anybody's
been into their home,
00:40:35.534 --> 00:40:37.201
you'll know, you walk into like
00:40:37.201 --> 00:40:39.002
an Alice in Wonderland place.
00:40:39.002 --> 00:40:41.668
J. Abella: It is a reflection
of my mother's personality.
00:40:41.668 --> 00:40:43.335
She likes things
that make her happy.
00:40:43.335 --> 00:40:45.935
And the collection of art
and the colors make her happy.
00:40:45.935 --> 00:40:47.334
Rosie: I don't
think you would say
00:40:47.334 --> 00:40:49.101
that there is a style of art.
00:40:49.701 --> 00:40:52.334
But it's all sculptures,
00:40:52.334 --> 00:40:54.334
paintings, artifacts
00:40:54.334 --> 00:40:56.468
that are fun, that are creative,
00:40:56.468 --> 00:40:57.800
in a very different way.
00:41:00.102 --> 00:41:01.801
Gray: You know,
she has pop tastes,
00:41:01.801 --> 00:41:04.502
and some of the pieces that she
has actually are quite lovely,
00:41:04.502 --> 00:41:07.435
but you'd never know it, given
the junk they're surrounded by.
00:41:07.435 --> 00:41:09.867
J. Abella: A FedEx person once
asked if this house was a store.
00:41:10.201 --> 00:41:12.002
So, people loved it.
00:41:12.002 --> 00:41:14.601
- But I had such a blast
in that home, I really did.
00:41:14.601 --> 00:41:17.035
She knows pretty well every
Broadway song that I know,
00:41:17.035 --> 00:41:18.701
but she sings it
much better than I do.
00:41:18.701 --> 00:41:20.701
Rosie: Right now, there
is no music in the room
00:41:20.701 --> 00:41:22.568
because you made me turn it off.
00:41:22.568 --> 00:41:24.868
But there is always
music in a room
00:41:24.868 --> 00:41:27.268
because my brain looks for it.
00:41:27.268 --> 00:41:28.668
Atwood: She loves a party.
00:41:28.668 --> 00:41:30.601
She loves musical comedies.
00:41:30.601 --> 00:41:33.501
So lights, camera, action.
That would be Rosie.
00:41:33.501 --> 00:41:35.800
Rosie: When I finished
high school, as a gift,
00:41:36.568 --> 00:41:39.701
my parents let me go to
New York with a girlfriend,
00:41:39.701 --> 00:41:41.468
and we got tickets to Funny Girl
00:41:41.468 --> 00:41:43.235
because I knew all the songs.
00:41:43.235 --> 00:41:45.534
And they were
funny songs and they were
00:41:45.534 --> 00:41:47.334
romantic songs,
so I became a fan.
00:41:47.868 --> 00:41:51.268
That was food for me,
having music in my head
00:41:51.268 --> 00:41:52.868
to get me through life.
00:41:52.868 --> 00:41:55.867
♪ (smooth jazz music) ♪
00:42:00.868 --> 00:42:02.701
Irving: So we've never had a
00:42:02.701 --> 00:42:04.601
really enjoyable meal at home
00:42:04.601 --> 00:42:07.002
that hasn't been ordered in.
Rosie: (laughs)
00:42:07.002 --> 00:42:09.002
Irving: And Rosie, and--
Rosie: I'm sorry.
00:42:09.002 --> 00:42:10.867
Atwood: Not a tippity-top cook.
00:42:11.301 --> 00:42:13.468
She once took a
gourmet cooking class
00:42:13.468 --> 00:42:15.201
and her family complained.
00:42:15.201 --> 00:42:16.668
(laughs)
00:42:16.668 --> 00:42:20.002
Rosie: Look at these
homemade pastries
00:42:20.002 --> 00:42:22.334
that I got at a
neighborhood bakery.
00:42:22.334 --> 00:42:24.401
They're homemade, but not by me.
00:42:24.401 --> 00:42:26.167
Cooking, I tried because
00:42:26.167 --> 00:42:27.967
my family needed to eat.
00:42:28.434 --> 00:42:30.268
Irving: If cooking
figured in the family,
00:42:30.268 --> 00:42:31.734
I would have been
gone on the first day.
00:42:32.468 --> 00:42:35.401
Rosie tried to make a
cheese omelet without eggs.
00:42:35.801 --> 00:42:37.902
Nobody told her you needed
eggs in a cheese omelet.
00:42:38.302 --> 00:42:42.067
So she put the cheese in and
waited for the omelet to form.
00:42:42.067 --> 00:42:43.901
Atwood: (laughs)
00:42:43.901 --> 00:42:45.601
Can't we have pizza?
00:42:45.601 --> 00:42:48.301
Irving: So we have more
recipe books in this house
00:42:48.301 --> 00:42:49.767
than we've ever had meals.
00:42:49.767 --> 00:42:52.568
(laughter)
00:42:52.568 --> 00:42:54.667
Sometimes I feel like
eating the recipe book.
00:43:03.735 --> 00:43:07.901
♪ (dramatic instrumental
music) ♪
00:43:18.402 --> 00:43:21.368
Martin: The Supreme Court
reflects in the supreme way,
00:43:21.368 --> 00:43:23.301
what the laws are.
00:43:24.068 --> 00:43:28.167
But the interpretation of those
laws has a very important
00:43:29.135 --> 00:43:32.067
basis in what your
perspectives are,
00:43:32.067 --> 00:43:33.500
that society needs.
00:43:35.835 --> 00:43:38.701
Karakatsanis:
We are the court of last resort.
00:43:38.701 --> 00:43:41.667
So we hear appeals
from all courts in Canada.
00:43:42.234 --> 00:43:45.035
And, try to bring some clarity
00:43:45.035 --> 00:43:47.701
and resolve legal issues that
00:43:47.701 --> 00:43:50.501
have huge impact
on every aspect of life.
00:43:53.135 --> 00:43:55.068
Martin: When you're dealing
with the Supreme Court,
00:43:55.068 --> 00:43:57.201
what you are looking for
is somebody
00:43:57.201 --> 00:43:59.501
who is a respected jurist.
00:43:59.501 --> 00:44:02.368
Somebody who understands
the importance of the law.
00:44:02.701 --> 00:44:05.201
Somebody who understands
the importance of the way
00:44:05.201 --> 00:44:07.302
in which laws are introduced.
00:44:07.302 --> 00:44:09.768
I would expect that
very much out of somebody
00:44:09.768 --> 00:44:12.134
who is appointed to the,
to the bench.
00:44:14.401 --> 00:44:16.701
Rosie: The process
that was in place then was,
00:44:16.701 --> 00:44:19.035
you didn't know if
your name was even in play.
00:44:19.035 --> 00:44:21.269
All I knew was
what the press said.
00:44:21.269 --> 00:44:24.235
I had no contact with
anybody in government,
00:44:24.235 --> 00:44:26.667
from the minute
the vacancies started.
00:44:28.135 --> 00:44:31.468
I. Cotler: Bonjour, I am pleased
to share with you
00:44:31.468 --> 00:44:34.767
what I would regard as a
historic moment.
00:44:35.434 --> 00:44:38.368
Rosie: So people like me,
never say one day
00:44:38.368 --> 00:44:40.202
I want to be a
Supreme Court judge
00:44:40.202 --> 00:44:43.668
or a Court of Appeal judge,
because we know that we aren't
00:44:43.668 --> 00:44:46.334
the kind of people who,
who can automatically
00:44:47.102 --> 00:44:50.034
pick up a phone and think
that that's going to happen.
00:44:50.534 --> 00:44:53.501
So if it doesn't happen,
that's closer to the narrative
00:44:53.501 --> 00:44:55.034
that we grow up feeling.
00:44:55.468 --> 00:44:57.568
Cotler: I'm delighted to
announce
00:44:57.568 --> 00:45:00.735
two outstanding nominees
00:45:00.735 --> 00:45:03.301
to the Supreme Court of Canada.
00:45:03.301 --> 00:45:05.668
Justice Rosie Abella.
00:45:06.002 --> 00:45:08.167
Martin: Irwin Cotler
was the one that came to me
00:45:08.501 --> 00:45:10.568
and he said, 'This is
what I would like to do.'
00:45:10.868 --> 00:45:12.935
Now, Irwin Cotler
was universally
00:45:12.935 --> 00:45:14.668
respected across the country,
00:45:14.668 --> 00:45:16.801
and when he recommended Rosie,
00:45:16.801 --> 00:45:18.801
obviously that gave it
a lot of weight.
00:45:18.801 --> 00:45:22.035
- But while legal scholars
are gushing over the nominees,
00:45:22.035 --> 00:45:24.269
social conservatives
are cringing,
00:45:24.269 --> 00:45:26.668
particularly with the
Supreme Court set to hear
00:45:26.668 --> 00:45:30.469
a controversial reference
on same-sex marriage this fall.
00:45:30.469 --> 00:45:33.068
Landolt: Both of the women are
known as hard-line feminists.
00:45:33.502 --> 00:45:37.301
It certainly seals the fate
of the same-sex marriage case.
00:45:37.301 --> 00:45:39.067
- The easiest way to carry on a
00:45:39.067 --> 00:45:41.868
debate is to invent a straw man.
00:45:41.868 --> 00:45:45.600
The fake stick picture of
what your opponent believes,
00:45:46.134 --> 00:45:48.335
and then set it on fire and say,
00:45:48.335 --> 00:45:50.202
'How could you possibly
believe such a thing?'
00:45:50.202 --> 00:45:53.701
Toews: Paul Martin was looking
for a certain kind of a judge
00:45:53.701 --> 00:45:56.468
in order to advance his,
his agenda.
00:45:56.468 --> 00:45:58.601
Rosie: The journalists
were very critical
00:45:58.601 --> 00:46:00.067
of this possibility.
00:46:00.067 --> 00:46:02.635
That took me aback because
00:46:02.635 --> 00:46:04.269
I'd never seen it before.
00:46:04.269 --> 00:46:06.601
And to this day,
I don't think I've ever seen
00:46:06.601 --> 00:46:08.568
a critical reaction
to an appointment
00:46:08.568 --> 00:46:11.335
to the Supreme Court of Canada
except mine.
00:46:11.569 --> 00:46:15.668
Marshall: One of the things that
I admire about Justice Abella,
00:46:15.668 --> 00:46:18.834
is that she understands
that if you are a judge
00:46:18.834 --> 00:46:20.735
in a democracy,
00:46:20.735 --> 00:46:24.202
you will be criticized.
00:46:24.202 --> 00:46:26.301
B. Mulroney: So I wasn't
surprised when I saw some of it.
00:46:26.701 --> 00:46:29.368
I called her,
told her to hang in there.
00:46:29.368 --> 00:46:31.401
That, you know,
this too shall pass.
00:46:31.768 --> 00:46:34.334
Rosie: But I can't tell
you that it didn't hurt.
00:46:35.168 --> 00:46:38.034
But I can also tell you
that it didn't keep me down.
00:46:38.034 --> 00:46:39.533
♪ (cheery music) ♪
00:46:40.534 --> 00:46:42.335
Anchor: This is CBC News Today,
00:46:42.335 --> 00:46:44.902
and the Supreme Court of Canada
is back in session
00:46:44.902 --> 00:46:47.401
and it's already completed
its first order of business.
00:46:47.868 --> 00:46:50.601
Justices Louise Charron
and Rosalie Abella
00:46:50.601 --> 00:46:52.601
were formally sworn
in this morning.
00:46:52.601 --> 00:46:55.201
Rosie: Do solemnly and
sincerely promise and swear
00:46:55.201 --> 00:46:57.068
that I will duly and faithfully,
00:46:57.068 --> 00:46:59.034
and to the best of my
skill and knowledge,
00:47:03.401 --> 00:47:07.935
execute the powers
and trust placed in me
00:47:07.935 --> 00:47:10.201
as one of the judges of
the Supreme Court of Canada,
00:47:10.201 --> 00:47:11.568
so help me God.
00:47:11.568 --> 00:47:13.768
- For me, as for so many other
00:47:13.768 --> 00:47:15.600
legal academics in Canada,
00:47:16.067 --> 00:47:18.302
when you heard Rosie's name,
00:47:18.302 --> 00:47:22.569
there was almost an immediate
sense of the rightness
00:47:22.569 --> 00:47:25.601
that Rosie Abella should be
on the Supreme Court of Canada.
00:47:25.601 --> 00:47:26.934
Mulroney:
When Paul Martin came in,
00:47:28.167 --> 00:47:30.234
who is a great friend of mine
00:47:30.234 --> 00:47:32.902
and ideologically
00:47:32.902 --> 00:47:35.835
compatible with me
and with Rosie,
00:47:35.835 --> 00:47:38.334
I was, I was delighted
when he appointed her.
00:47:38.334 --> 00:47:40.601
Martin: We appointed
somebody of substance,
00:47:40.601 --> 00:47:44.401
who is basically going to
drive two very strong
00:47:44.401 --> 00:47:46.101
social objectives.
00:47:47.735 --> 00:47:51.601
- The message of Rosie Abella
being named as the first
00:47:51.601 --> 00:47:54.534
female Jewish judge
in this country,
00:47:54.534 --> 00:47:56.401
was liberating for Jews.
00:47:56.401 --> 00:47:57.768
I mean, it was like,
00:47:57.768 --> 00:48:00.534
holy mackerel,
we kind of, now we've made it!
00:48:01.102 --> 00:48:04.800
- Abella spoke of her journey as
a child of Holocaust survivors.
00:48:05.368 --> 00:48:06.734
Rosie: A journey...
00:48:13.369 --> 00:48:16.068
...that started in a displaced
persons camp in Germany,
00:48:16.068 --> 00:48:18.401
ended in the
Supreme Court of Canada.
00:48:18.401 --> 00:48:20.001
Martin: I believe,
00:48:20.268 --> 00:48:22.800
asking, 'Why did you
appoint a woman?'
00:48:23.301 --> 00:48:24.801
'Was there something
behind that?'
00:48:24.801 --> 00:48:26.668
That had nothing to do with it?
00:48:26.668 --> 00:48:29.134
We appointed Rosie Abella.
00:48:32.568 --> 00:48:34.235
P. Mansbridge: Tomorrow the
Supreme Court of Canada
00:48:34.235 --> 00:48:37.501
considers something this country
has grappled with for months:
00:48:37.501 --> 00:48:39.168
same-sex marriage.
00:48:39.168 --> 00:48:41.268
Rosie: I wrote a
gay rights judgment.
00:48:41.268 --> 00:48:42.801
That was the
first decision I wrote
00:48:42.801 --> 00:48:44.401
after all of that criticism.
00:48:44.401 --> 00:48:46.501
I wasn't going to change
in order to be able to
00:48:46.501 --> 00:48:48.569
accommodate those views
because they weren't mine.
00:48:48.569 --> 00:48:51.035
Greenberg: Well, maybe it wasn't
the views that they wanted.
00:48:51.035 --> 00:48:53.368
Everybody has the right
to their own opinion.
00:48:53.801 --> 00:48:56.635
And she has a certain
point of view.
00:48:56.635 --> 00:48:58.368
I am assuming that
there were people
00:48:58.368 --> 00:49:00.268
that were critical
of her decisions.
00:49:00.268 --> 00:49:03.935
- You know, there
were efforts by
00:49:03.935 --> 00:49:06.234
people who were
opposed to us
00:49:06.234 --> 00:49:08.102
to say, well,
00:49:08.102 --> 00:49:10.902
you can have something
short of marriage.
00:49:10.902 --> 00:49:13.934
Rosie: Is it your position
that the definition of marriage
00:49:14.601 --> 00:49:15.935
cannot be changed?
00:49:15.935 --> 00:49:17.768
- That is the position of
Alberta, Milady,
00:49:17.768 --> 00:49:19.768
within the natural
limits of that term.
00:49:19.768 --> 00:49:22.835
Rosie: What does--and tell me
what you mean by natural limits?
00:49:22.835 --> 00:49:24.601
I knew it was going
to be controversial.
00:49:24.601 --> 00:49:26.468
It was a decision that
00:49:26.468 --> 00:49:30.269
struck down as unconstitutional
on the grounds
00:49:30.269 --> 00:49:33.501
that it violated protection
for sexual orientation.
00:49:33.501 --> 00:49:35.735
But it got played in the press,
00:49:35.735 --> 00:49:37.501
almost more than the criticism
00:49:37.501 --> 00:49:39.768
I got for writing
the Royal Commission Report
00:49:39.768 --> 00:49:41.301
and saying there should be
00:49:41.301 --> 00:49:43.268
something called
Employment Equity.
00:49:43.268 --> 00:49:46.434
It was really raw
in the public's mind,
00:49:46.434 --> 00:49:49.134
but that was fine
because I'm independent.
00:49:49.134 --> 00:49:50.868
I'm not going to lose my job
00:49:50.868 --> 00:49:53.434
because I write a decision
that protects minority interest.
00:49:53.434 --> 00:49:54.735
That's what I'm there for.
00:49:54.735 --> 00:49:57.102
- They have been waiting for
years to walk down the aisle.
00:49:57.102 --> 00:49:58.735
Gay and lesbian couples
in our city,
00:49:58.735 --> 00:50:00.434
fighting for the right
to legally marry.
00:50:00.434 --> 00:50:02.135
Today, they won that right.
00:50:02.135 --> 00:50:04.301
- Michael felt
it was very important
00:50:04.301 --> 00:50:06.334
that at least one
couple get married
00:50:06.334 --> 00:50:08.534
right after the
decision came out.
00:50:08.902 --> 00:50:10.868
If you're a member of a group
00:50:10.868 --> 00:50:12.868
that doesn't have equality,
00:50:12.868 --> 00:50:15.368
you approach it
obviously differently,
00:50:15.368 --> 00:50:18.401
because you bring
your own experience.
00:50:19.269 --> 00:50:23.268
- Rosalie Abella, everything
she's done on the bench,
00:50:23.268 --> 00:50:26.735
it's really...remarkable.
00:50:26.735 --> 00:50:28.301
Rosie: You as a judge
00:50:28.301 --> 00:50:30.235
have to be open to the reality
00:50:30.235 --> 00:50:33.368
in front of you, and not
to judge from the top down.
00:50:33.768 --> 00:50:36.735
Because, their story may not be
00:50:36.735 --> 00:50:37.768
your story.
00:50:37.768 --> 00:50:41.700
♪ (gentle piano music) ♪
00:50:48.101 --> 00:50:49.868
- She saw that she had
00:50:49.868 --> 00:50:51.768
a broad social responsibility,
00:50:51.768 --> 00:50:55.002
as well as that of a
member of the Supreme Court.
00:50:55.002 --> 00:50:58.234
- She took a particular path
and it had a particular voice,
00:50:58.234 --> 00:51:00.368
I think, with respect
to how quickly
00:51:00.368 --> 00:51:02.501
the law should evolve to reflect
00:51:02.501 --> 00:51:04.334
a society which was attempting
00:51:04.935 --> 00:51:07.201
to really make good
on its commitments around
00:51:07.201 --> 00:51:08.901
social and economic equality.
00:51:15.601 --> 00:51:17.168
- She's unapologetic
00:51:17.168 --> 00:51:20.301
in the fact
that she's not afraid to
00:51:20.301 --> 00:51:22.635
make laws or reverse laws.
00:51:22.635 --> 00:51:26.935
Rosie: The criticisms people
sometimes attach to courts is,
00:51:26.935 --> 00:51:29.268
you're not really taking
into account public opinion.
00:51:29.902 --> 00:51:32.101
This isn't what
the majority wants.
00:51:32.935 --> 00:51:36.168
To which I say public opinion
isn't a piece of evidence
00:51:36.168 --> 00:51:38.501
you can cross-examine
and test for the truth.
00:51:39.202 --> 00:51:42.635
But that's our job,
to risk being unpopular
00:51:42.635 --> 00:51:44.667
in order to do the right thing.
00:51:48.434 --> 00:51:50.167
Since I first became a judge,
00:51:50.167 --> 00:51:51.835
I never, ever didn't feel
00:51:52.202 --> 00:51:54.768
that something really important
was happening in my courtroom.
00:51:55.202 --> 00:51:57.701
All of the cases
felt important to me.
00:51:57.701 --> 00:52:00.334
♪ (gentle piano music) ♪
00:52:18.501 --> 00:52:20.735
It was a dispute about
00:52:20.735 --> 00:52:22.368
whether or not the
00:52:22.368 --> 00:52:24.334
Immigration and Refugee Board
00:52:24.334 --> 00:52:26.800
had taken
into sufficient account,
00:52:27.434 --> 00:52:29.268
the fact that what
we were dealing with
00:52:29.268 --> 00:52:31.234
was...a young person.
00:52:31.668 --> 00:52:33.901
- I submitted a refugee claim.
00:52:35.034 --> 00:52:37.902
And then...I got rejected.
00:52:37.902 --> 00:52:41.334
And they simply said,
that I can go back.
00:52:41.334 --> 00:52:42.568
Because the war is over.
00:52:42.568 --> 00:52:44.268
- You're not here with status.
00:52:44.268 --> 00:52:46.668
You're not entitled to be here.
00:52:46.668 --> 00:52:47.902
You have to leave.
00:52:47.902 --> 00:52:50.902
Rosie: You understand
what unusual hardship means,
00:52:50.902 --> 00:52:52.768
or disproportionate
hardship means,
00:52:52.768 --> 00:52:54.902
or undeserved hardship means,
00:52:54.902 --> 00:52:57.067
compared to hardship.
00:52:57.735 --> 00:53:01.368
And what, what I think is
difficult to figure out is,
00:53:01.368 --> 00:53:04.167
what role then is there
for the words
00:53:04.167 --> 00:53:05.902
humanitarian and compassionate?
00:53:05.902 --> 00:53:08.968
- Think about, you know,
one key case called Kanthasamy,
00:53:08.968 --> 00:53:10.935
where she's taken in her own
00:53:10.935 --> 00:53:12.768
lived experience as a migrant
00:53:12.768 --> 00:53:15.435
and infused a compassionate tone
00:53:15.435 --> 00:53:18.835
and really is a model in the way
in which we could see
00:53:18.835 --> 00:53:22.234
decision makers take that
compassionate and humanitarian
00:53:22.568 --> 00:53:24.067
approach to decision making.
00:53:25.269 --> 00:53:28.601
- I was so upset. I couldn't
even sleep at night.
00:53:28.601 --> 00:53:30.635
Because I was thinking to much.
00:53:30.635 --> 00:53:31.735
You know, what If I go back?
00:53:31.735 --> 00:53:34.135
What is going to happen to me?
I was so worried.
00:53:34.135 --> 00:53:38.234
Rosie: It was a dispute
about the exercise of discretion
00:53:38.735 --> 00:53:42.835
in applying rules to people who
were trying to come to Canada,
00:53:42.835 --> 00:53:45.768
and making sure that any
error was on the side of
00:53:45.768 --> 00:53:47.667
humanity and compassion.
00:53:51.935 --> 00:53:53.902
E. Solomon: Many members
of the province's
00:53:53.902 --> 00:53:56.167
Hutterite community
believe that being photographed
00:53:56.167 --> 00:53:57.468
is against God's Will.
00:53:57.468 --> 00:53:59.301
Rosie: And that was a case
where I thought
00:53:59.301 --> 00:54:00.768
freedom of religion,
00:54:00.768 --> 00:54:03.334
their right
to exercise their religion,
00:54:03.334 --> 00:54:05.701
outweighed any benefit
to the public,
00:54:05.701 --> 00:54:08.134
of having this rule
that required photographs.
00:54:08.668 --> 00:54:10.835
Are we in danger of
mixing up the concepts
00:54:10.835 --> 00:54:13.835
of jurisdiction
and justiciability?
00:54:13.835 --> 00:54:15.934
Because when I look
at the application
00:54:16.334 --> 00:54:17.835
for judicial review,
00:54:17.835 --> 00:54:19.867
there's no mention of religion.
00:54:20.701 --> 00:54:22.202
There's no mention of doctrine.
00:54:22.202 --> 00:54:24.568
So the first question,
it seems to me is,
00:54:24.568 --> 00:54:26.001
is there jurisdiction?
00:54:28.401 --> 00:54:30.301
- An important victory for Labor
00:54:30.301 --> 00:54:32.368
at the Supreme Court
of Canada today.
00:54:32.868 --> 00:54:35.868
The High Court struck down
a Saskatchewan law
00:54:35.868 --> 00:54:38.868
that prevented almost
all of its public sector workers
00:54:38.868 --> 00:54:41.835
from going on strike,
saying it's unconstitutional.
00:54:41.835 --> 00:54:44.868
Rosie: And I said,
you cannot have
00:54:44.868 --> 00:54:46.701
the protection of
collective bargaining,
00:54:46.701 --> 00:54:48.700
which our Court had done
a few years earlier,
00:54:49.401 --> 00:54:51.968
without the ultimate sanction
00:54:51.968 --> 00:54:54.235
that goes with
collective bargaining.
00:54:54.235 --> 00:54:57.968
Because if you are unsuccessful
at collective bargaining,
00:54:57.968 --> 00:54:59.735
the employer can lock you out.
00:54:59.735 --> 00:55:03.734
But the only remedy that
a union has, is to strike.
00:55:04.368 --> 00:55:06.067
And no one had ever
constitutionally
00:55:06.067 --> 00:55:07.734
protected the right to strike.
00:55:10.968 --> 00:55:12.835
P. Mansbridge: A landmark
Supreme Court hearing
00:55:12.835 --> 00:55:14.735
began today on whether to allow
00:55:14.735 --> 00:55:16.735
doctor-assisted suicide.
00:55:16.735 --> 00:55:18.534
Rosie: This was a case where
00:55:18.534 --> 00:55:20.902
it really was a
deliberative process.
00:55:20.902 --> 00:55:23.701
It was the Court,
I thought, at its best.
00:55:24.202 --> 00:55:29.567
Because it touches on such
visceral and personal concerns,
00:55:30.067 --> 00:55:31.934
we took it very seriously.
00:55:31.934 --> 00:55:33.601
That it wasn't a crime
00:55:33.601 --> 00:55:36.800
to assist someone
who did not want to
00:55:37.868 --> 00:55:41.068
continue to live
with intolerable suffering.
00:55:41.068 --> 00:55:43.402
Why would you be urging us
to take an approach
00:55:43.402 --> 00:55:45.734
that makes it harder,
rather than easier to reform?
00:55:46.234 --> 00:55:48.268
- It ought to be difficult.
00:55:48.268 --> 00:55:52.500
Rosie: It engaged
genuine concerns
00:55:53.301 --> 00:55:56.268
to make sure that
there was no abuse.
00:55:56.635 --> 00:55:59.067
I mean, is this
going to be used for
00:55:59.067 --> 00:56:01.768
cavalier purposes or
00:56:01.768 --> 00:56:04.835
were we really going to be able
to protect the dignity of people
00:56:04.835 --> 00:56:07.268
who had decided
the suffering was intolerable?
00:56:10.368 --> 00:56:12.301
I see justice
00:56:12.301 --> 00:56:14.700
as the aspirational application
00:56:15.635 --> 00:56:18.568
of the law to life.
00:56:18.568 --> 00:56:20.801
And that means they
have a relationship
00:56:20.801 --> 00:56:23.368
that has to be symbiotic.
00:56:24.334 --> 00:56:26.034
Otherwise,
it doesn't make any sense.
00:56:28.968 --> 00:56:31.635
Clark: I've seen some comments
with regard to Rosie
00:56:31.635 --> 00:56:34.002
as having been too
far ahead of her time.
00:56:34.002 --> 00:56:36.768
Law has to change.
If law doesn't change,
00:56:36.768 --> 00:56:39.534
societies lose
their own guidance,
00:56:39.534 --> 00:56:41.167
lose their own cohesion.
00:56:41.167 --> 00:56:43.334
And they need change-makers,
00:56:43.835 --> 00:56:45.302
who understand the law
00:56:45.302 --> 00:56:49.234
as well as they can intuit
the direction of the society.
00:56:49.534 --> 00:56:51.768
- And so she sees
the role of a judge
00:56:51.768 --> 00:56:55.601
as being in very real ways
the advocate for those people,
00:56:55.601 --> 00:56:58.301
the people who are left out,
of the underprivileged,
00:56:58.301 --> 00:56:59.700
of the unrepresented.
00:57:02.201 --> 00:57:03.368
- They're called law schools.
00:57:03.368 --> 00:57:05.735
They're not called
justice schools.
00:57:05.735 --> 00:57:07.235
Rosie Abella is someone
00:57:07.235 --> 00:57:10.434
who narrows, if doesn't,
eliminate that gap.
00:57:10.935 --> 00:57:14.768
Everything that she does
is about, 'where's the justice?'
00:57:15.235 --> 00:57:18.035
Rosie: Why shouldn't
the law operate in a way
00:57:18.035 --> 00:57:20.368
that makes equally accessible
00:57:20.368 --> 00:57:22.035
to those who are physically,
00:57:22.035 --> 00:57:24.534
as well as those who
are not physically able,
00:57:24.534 --> 00:57:26.735
to get the benefit
of a more compassionate
00:57:26.735 --> 00:57:27.935
approach to suicide?
- Because the--
00:57:27.935 --> 00:57:29.568
- But I think there
was certainly,
00:57:29.568 --> 00:57:32.101
was and is now a sense
that she represents
00:57:32.101 --> 00:57:34.635
a particularly provocative view
00:57:34.635 --> 00:57:36.502
of the role of a judge.
00:57:36.502 --> 00:57:39.500
She's not modest about the role
that a judge ought to have.
00:57:40.401 --> 00:57:41.601
Rosie: You know,
I remember when there was
00:57:41.601 --> 00:57:42.835
all this doctrine saying,
00:57:42.835 --> 00:57:44.501
'We don't want judges
with an agenda.
00:57:44.501 --> 00:57:46.735
We want judges
who are not biased.'
00:57:46.735 --> 00:57:48.701
And I thought, really?
00:57:48.701 --> 00:57:51.167
Then nobody over ten years old
doesn't have opinions.
00:57:51.635 --> 00:57:54.268
Being a judge means
knowing you have them,
00:57:54.268 --> 00:57:56.601
and being open to what you hear,
00:57:56.601 --> 00:57:58.434
so that you can transcend
00:57:58.434 --> 00:58:00.935
your biases,
which you must confront,
00:58:00.935 --> 00:58:04.434
and be open to the possibility
that your instincts were wrong.
00:58:05.068 --> 00:58:07.167
Chan: She's always
looking beyond that
00:58:07.167 --> 00:58:09.768
to broader principles
of justice,
00:58:10.102 --> 00:58:13.334
which are common
to all liberal democracies,
00:58:13.334 --> 00:58:15.568
which are common to
00:58:15.568 --> 00:58:17.902
courts in other jurisdictions.
00:58:17.902 --> 00:58:20.135
Rosie: We're not swashbuckling
00:58:20.135 --> 00:58:22.901
Don Quixotes
wandering the landscape
00:58:23.301 --> 00:58:24.668
looking for injustices.
00:58:24.668 --> 00:58:28.268
We do justice
by working with the law.
00:58:29.135 --> 00:58:32.568
But Parliament
actually passes laws.
00:58:32.568 --> 00:58:35.768
So when we do interpret
what they do and say,
00:58:35.768 --> 00:58:38.369
you're within the limits
of the Constitution,
00:58:38.369 --> 00:58:41.334
or you're not within the
limits of the Constitution,
00:58:41.334 --> 00:58:44.434
we're not trespassing
on their role.
00:58:44.434 --> 00:58:46.068
We're doing what
they've asked us to do
00:58:46.068 --> 00:58:48.368
by giving us a Charter
of Rights and Freedoms.
00:58:48.935 --> 00:58:51.601
Is that a controversial role?
Of course.
00:58:51.601 --> 00:58:54.001
I mean, nobody who's
lost a case ever thinks
00:58:54.001 --> 00:58:55.434
the court got it right.
00:58:55.434 --> 00:58:56.801
Nobody.
00:58:56.801 --> 00:59:00.101
♪ (gentle piano music) ♪
00:59:08.835 --> 00:59:10.101
- I don't know if
you've been in her office,
00:59:10.101 --> 00:59:12.101
but it's quite something.
00:59:12.501 --> 00:59:13.868
It's like walking into her mind.
00:59:13.868 --> 00:59:16.134
- I sort of
think of it as having
00:59:16.134 --> 00:59:17.468
fun house vibes.
00:59:17.468 --> 00:59:20.068
- I was overwhelmed
by all of the art.
00:59:20.068 --> 00:59:22.835
Gray: Rosie's
office is and was,
00:59:22.835 --> 00:59:24.868
a complete contrast
to every other
00:59:24.868 --> 00:59:26.534
Supreme Court judge's
00:59:26.534 --> 00:59:27.635
office I've been in.
00:59:27.635 --> 00:59:29.135
And I have been in quite a few.
00:59:29.135 --> 00:59:32.035
And there are oil paintings
and the wooden paneling
00:59:32.035 --> 00:59:35.034
and their neat piles of papers.
00:59:35.635 --> 00:59:37.635
You walk into Rosie's
and you think
00:59:37.635 --> 00:59:40.835
you're in some tchotchke shop
in, in Florida.
00:59:40.835 --> 00:59:43.234
Rosie: It's one of the
corners that you get
00:59:43.234 --> 00:59:45.568
for being a Senior Judge,
00:59:45.568 --> 00:59:47.835
which means...old.
00:59:47.835 --> 00:59:50.335
Gray: People would go in
and they would be completely
00:59:50.335 --> 00:59:52.667
floored by this.
I was the first time I saw it.
00:59:53.701 --> 00:59:55.234
Rosie: He once
told me that it was
00:59:55.234 --> 00:59:57.068
very easy to shop for me,
00:59:57.068 --> 00:59:58.935
because he would
go into the store,
00:59:59.302 --> 01:00:01.800
look for the ugliest thing,
and know that I would love it.
01:00:02.701 --> 01:00:06.801
- It's an unbelievable
explosion of pop art
01:00:06.801 --> 01:00:09.401
in many cases,
frankly, bad taste.
01:00:09.401 --> 01:00:12.134
Rosie: I apologize
to no one for my taste.
01:00:12.134 --> 01:00:14.167
Many would say, what taste?
01:00:14.167 --> 01:00:15.902
But, but it's mine!
01:00:15.902 --> 01:00:17.534
- I had standing permission
01:00:17.534 --> 01:00:20.401
to take any visitor
or guest into her office.
01:00:20.401 --> 01:00:22.002
And it was the one place
I would take them.
01:00:22.002 --> 01:00:23.867
The court room
and Rosie's office.
01:00:24.635 --> 01:00:26.635
Rosie: There're going to be
pictures of my family around,
01:00:26.635 --> 01:00:29.468
there're going to be
lots of books, teapots,
01:00:29.468 --> 01:00:31.868
the kinds of things
that make me feel
01:00:31.868 --> 01:00:34.700
really good about...who I am
01:00:34.901 --> 01:00:36.401
and what I like.
01:00:40.468 --> 01:00:42.635
Beaucage: She just
welcomes you with open arms
01:00:42.635 --> 01:00:45.568
and like she's met you and she's
known you for her entire life.
01:00:45.568 --> 01:00:48.234
And, you know,
it's quite something.
01:00:48.234 --> 01:00:50.134
And it wasn't
really an interview.
01:00:50.701 --> 01:00:53.468
We talked about Broadway
the entire time.
01:00:54.002 --> 01:00:55.334
Director: What do you look for
in a law clerk?
01:00:56.835 --> 01:00:58.102
Rosie: I look for somebody
01:00:58.102 --> 01:01:00.001
I'm going to like
working with for a year.
01:01:00.401 --> 01:01:03.167
But mostly, since they
are all intelligent,
01:01:04.035 --> 01:01:06.768
I want people
who can think bravely.
01:01:06.768 --> 01:01:09.700
And what I mean by that is,
people who can say to me,
01:01:10.434 --> 01:01:11.601
'I don't agree with that'.
01:01:11.601 --> 01:01:13.735
- When you walk in,
she's sitting at her,
01:01:13.735 --> 01:01:15.568
her marble desk and
you're sitting down
01:01:15.568 --> 01:01:17.234
on a pink wooden chair,
01:01:17.601 --> 01:01:19.101
and then she conducts
the interview
01:01:19.101 --> 01:01:21.202
and will ask you questions
01:01:21.202 --> 01:01:23.035
that you don't necessarily
expect to get in an interview
01:01:23.035 --> 01:01:24.635
for the Supreme Court
of Canada clerkship.
01:01:24.635 --> 01:01:27.801
- I fancied myself an
underground battle rapper
01:01:27.801 --> 01:01:29.768
slash spoken word poet
01:01:29.768 --> 01:01:31.701
in my undergrad days at U of T.
01:01:32.102 --> 01:01:34.868
And sure enough, Justice
Abella asked me about it
01:01:34.868 --> 01:01:36.402
in the interview
because she was,
01:01:36.402 --> 01:01:39.868
you know, fascinated by this
little nugget in my application.
01:01:40.135 --> 01:01:43.401
And I ended up reciting
one of my rap verses for her.
01:01:47.935 --> 01:01:50.234
- When you're a young lawyer,
01:01:50.234 --> 01:01:53.067
you dissociate the
law from people.
01:01:53.468 --> 01:01:55.434
But that's not how
Justice Abella does it.
01:01:55.434 --> 01:01:56.768
She thinks about people.
01:01:56.768 --> 01:01:59.735
I learned more in her office
01:01:59.735 --> 01:02:01.068
than I did in law school.
01:02:01.469 --> 01:02:04.500
- Having that opportunity at the
very beginning of my career
01:02:05.167 --> 01:02:07.668
was a really excellent way
01:02:07.668 --> 01:02:09.768
to set a path for
01:02:09.768 --> 01:02:11.534
what I hope to accomplish
01:02:11.534 --> 01:02:14.035
as a lawyer, and I think
01:02:14.035 --> 01:02:17.002
that she is someone
who has made every decision
01:02:17.002 --> 01:02:19.202
along the way,
reflecting her values.
01:02:19.202 --> 01:02:21.601
And so I think that that's
something I will carry with me.
01:02:21.601 --> 01:02:24.035
Plant: As sort of every clerk,
you know, leaves the court,
01:02:24.035 --> 01:02:26.135
you, you have just
a better sense of,
01:02:26.135 --> 01:02:28.935
you know, what the process
of justice at that level
01:02:28.935 --> 01:02:31.768
looks like and
that it is quite challenging.
01:02:31.768 --> 01:02:33.135
- One of the favorite things
01:02:33.135 --> 01:02:35.635
that any clerk ever
said to her was that
01:02:35.635 --> 01:02:36.934
they would help her
01:02:37.701 --> 01:02:39.301
create a slab of marble
01:02:39.301 --> 01:02:41.601
and she would turn
it into a statue.
01:02:41.601 --> 01:02:43.968
And I think that, that is
01:02:43.968 --> 01:02:46.168
a brilliant way to describe
01:02:46.168 --> 01:02:49.600
the relationship between
a clerk and Justice Abella.
01:02:54.601 --> 01:02:56.434
- She is dedicated to her work
01:02:56.434 --> 01:02:59.534
until she gets the perfect
work product.
01:02:59.534 --> 01:03:01.368
Writing, rewriting,
01:03:01.368 --> 01:03:03.701
starting over, rewriting.
01:03:03.701 --> 01:03:05.734
I've never seen someone
more passionate about it.
01:03:08.735 --> 01:03:09.935
Rosie:
These are works in progress.
01:03:09.935 --> 01:03:12.368
One is a majority,
one is a dissent.
01:03:12.368 --> 01:03:14.835
But it's the same
amount of work for me.
01:03:14.835 --> 01:03:16.002
J. Abella: You know,
I remember when I was a kid
01:03:16.002 --> 01:03:17.134
and she had a computer
in her office,
01:03:17.134 --> 01:03:19.269
she used to put art on.
01:03:19.269 --> 01:03:21.534
'Cause she had no idea
how to work any of that.
01:03:21.534 --> 01:03:23.034
So she still does
everything by hand,
01:03:23.568 --> 01:03:24.868
which is remarkable.
01:03:24.868 --> 01:03:26.601
Rosie: I swore years ago
01:03:26.601 --> 01:03:28.068
I would learn
how to use a computer,
01:03:28.068 --> 01:03:30.668
but I never got over my fear
that I'd lose everything.
01:03:31.168 --> 01:03:33.401
And I wouldn't be able
to put it all together again.
01:03:35.067 --> 01:03:36.701
I write by hand, first of all,
01:03:36.701 --> 01:03:39.568
so I edit as I go along
and I do it much more slowly.
01:03:39.935 --> 01:03:41.868
And then I'm
my own worst editor.
01:03:41.868 --> 01:03:44.068
I take each draft
and I look at it again,
01:03:44.068 --> 01:03:46.735
and I edit it and I edit it,
and I re-edit it.
01:03:47.335 --> 01:03:50.835
I just keep polishing until
I think it's crafted in a way
01:03:50.835 --> 01:03:52.835
that's clear to understand,
01:03:52.835 --> 01:03:54.701
and that I like reading it.
01:03:54.701 --> 01:03:58.534
- Certainly she's got
her own style of organization
01:03:58.534 --> 01:04:01.801
and revisit things
and tweak things as she goes,
01:04:01.801 --> 01:04:04.568
and it's quite a beautiful
thing to watch, actually.
01:04:04.568 --> 01:04:07.035
Chen: A lot of judges like
a throw in very fancy words,
01:04:07.035 --> 01:04:10.269
or very long metaphors that just
make it a little bit tedious.
01:04:10.269 --> 01:04:12.434
When I read hers,
I don't want to stop reading.
01:04:12.434 --> 01:04:13.835
And that's a huge thing
for a law student.
01:04:13.835 --> 01:04:16.801
Or if I'm reading a case
decision, I can keep going.
01:04:16.801 --> 01:04:18.768
Markin: She really loves
art and literature,
01:04:18.768 --> 01:04:20.234
and you notice that
in her writing,
01:04:20.234 --> 01:04:22.468
because she also wants to put in
01:04:22.468 --> 01:04:25.635
you know, beautiful
turns-of-phrases and metaphors
01:04:25.635 --> 01:04:27.168
and so you'll see
those in her writing, too.
01:04:27.168 --> 01:04:29.167
And they're really nice
when you come across them.
01:04:29.468 --> 01:04:32.102
Irving: She writes for
the people, she writes for,
01:04:32.102 --> 01:04:35.101
not the technicians
and not the academics,
01:04:35.101 --> 01:04:37.068
but for ordinary men and women,
01:04:37.402 --> 01:04:39.934
to understand what the law is
and what justice is.
01:04:40.434 --> 01:04:42.435
Rosie: Well, it can take months.
01:04:42.435 --> 01:04:45.102
It can take weeks, because
the process in this court
01:04:45.102 --> 01:04:48.868
is that when you write something
you think is good enough
01:04:49.168 --> 01:04:51.401
to put out for scrutiny
to your colleagues,
01:04:52.068 --> 01:04:54.368
then eight
magnifying glasses come out.
01:04:54.668 --> 01:04:56.435
Now, it's easier if you're
writing the dissent,
01:04:56.435 --> 01:04:58.468
because you're not writing
for eight other people,
01:04:58.468 --> 01:05:00.967
but when you're writing
on behalf of the majority,
01:05:01.501 --> 01:05:04.168
it's a deliberative consultation
01:05:04.168 --> 01:05:06.368
that is ongoing
until the judgment goes out.
01:05:10.202 --> 01:05:13.800
- So Rosie was the master
at kind of the big picture,
01:05:14.201 --> 01:05:16.568
the human impact and the
01:05:16.568 --> 01:05:18.835
intellectual rigor to get there.
01:05:18.835 --> 01:05:21.234
In fact, I remember when
I first came to the court,
01:05:21.234 --> 01:05:23.801
Rosie said to me,
in Rosie style,
01:05:23.801 --> 01:05:25.301
'Andromache, it's a family.
01:05:25.301 --> 01:05:27.835
It's like having eight spouses.'
01:05:27.835 --> 01:05:29.668
Imagine having to make
01:05:29.668 --> 01:05:31.700
important decisions every day
01:05:32.334 --> 01:05:34.635
with eight spouses,
and not only
01:05:34.635 --> 01:05:37.501
what the decision
should be, but why.
01:05:37.501 --> 01:05:39.068
- That's a very Rosie
kind of way.
01:05:39.068 --> 01:05:42.467
We should be able to talk things
out and arrive at a better,
01:05:42.967 --> 01:05:44.167
at a better solution.
01:05:44.968 --> 01:05:46.369
- She believed in collegiality.
01:05:46.369 --> 01:05:48.701
She would be the first colleague
who would get back to you
01:05:48.701 --> 01:05:51.202
when you circulated
draft reasons.
01:05:51.202 --> 01:05:54.468
We would get emails from her
all hours of the night.
01:05:54.468 --> 01:05:56.835
I mean, she had this
incredible work ethic.
01:05:56.835 --> 01:05:58.967
She believed in people.
01:05:58.967 --> 01:06:01.067
(applause)
01:06:01.067 --> 01:06:02.868
- What a treasure it is
01:06:02.868 --> 01:06:05.301
to bring these extraordinary
women together.
01:06:05.301 --> 01:06:07.002
(applause)
01:06:07.002 --> 01:06:10.568
The Honorable Justice
Rosalie Silberman Abella
01:06:10.568 --> 01:06:13.235
and someone we know very well,
01:06:13.235 --> 01:06:15.801
the Honorable
Ruth Bader Ginsburg,
01:06:15.801 --> 01:06:17.901
Associate Justice
of the United States.
01:06:19.135 --> 01:06:21.735
Rosie: The first time I heard
somebody say Canada's RBG,
01:06:21.735 --> 01:06:23.369
it took me by surprise.
01:06:23.369 --> 01:06:26.801
Z. Abella: On a surface level,
is also the first Jewish female
01:06:26.801 --> 01:06:29.968
to be on that country's
Supreme Court.
01:06:29.968 --> 01:06:31.935
But I think that's
where the comparison ends.
01:06:31.935 --> 01:06:35.468
Rosie: I think people mean it
in a, in a really nice way.
01:06:36.535 --> 01:06:40.134
I'm honored that they think
that I'm...have some resonance
01:06:40.134 --> 01:06:42.368
with somebody who was really
01:06:42.368 --> 01:06:45.968
quite a remarkable woman.
01:06:45.968 --> 01:06:47.734
I'm very different from her.
01:06:48.968 --> 01:06:50.935
- I find that
Justice Rosalie Abella
01:06:50.935 --> 01:06:53.901
really took a lot of sensitivity
and care and she's
01:06:54.902 --> 01:06:56.135
amazing in her own right
01:06:56.135 --> 01:06:57.568
and can stand on
her own for sure.
01:06:57.568 --> 01:06:59.434
Doesn't need to be
compared to anyone.
01:06:59.434 --> 01:07:01.201
Z. Abella: Obviously, RBG is a,
01:07:01.902 --> 01:07:04.468
you know, a hero to many people,
01:07:04.468 --> 01:07:07.469
but that's not my mom.
She was her own person.
01:07:07.469 --> 01:07:10.334
She wasn't Canada's RBG.
She is Canada's Rosie Abella.
01:07:12.368 --> 01:07:13.534
♪ (gentle piano music) ♪
01:07:13.534 --> 01:07:17.534
- 17 years as a Supreme Court
Judge, Rosalie Abella
01:07:17.534 --> 01:07:20.801
leaves the bench, but she leaves
a long legacy.
01:07:20.801 --> 01:07:23.601
Rosie: I've left a number
of professional homes.
01:07:24.168 --> 01:07:27.035
Each one of them
has felt like a home.
01:07:27.035 --> 01:07:29.434
It's been a very warm embrace.
01:07:29.434 --> 01:07:32.302
The Family Court was,
practicing law was,
01:07:32.302 --> 01:07:35.234
the Labor Board was,
the Law Reform Commission was.
01:07:35.801 --> 01:07:37.967
This is special because it's,
01:07:38.635 --> 01:07:40.202
it's the Supreme
Court of Canada,
01:07:40.202 --> 01:07:44.369
which was never
in contemplation at any point,
01:07:44.369 --> 01:07:47.034
including until the day
I got appointed here.
01:07:48.968 --> 01:07:51.434
But I'm not allowing
myself to get sad
01:07:51.434 --> 01:07:53.934
because I'm looking forward.
01:07:54.668 --> 01:07:57.468
But oh, it was,
it was such a great ride.
01:07:57.468 --> 01:07:58.668
I loved doing it!
01:07:58.668 --> 01:08:00.635
Z. Abella: I don't think
she ever wanted to
01:08:00.635 --> 01:08:01.968
spend the rest
of her life there.
01:08:02.335 --> 01:08:06.269
I think she's always been
in favor of mandatory retirement
01:08:06.269 --> 01:08:09.334
or getting off the stage
while you still can.
01:08:11.534 --> 01:08:14.835
Rosie: Because judging
is all about understanding
01:08:14.835 --> 01:08:17.534
the world around you,
and the world changes.
01:08:17.534 --> 01:08:20.768
And I like the idea that
there are new judges coming in,
01:08:20.768 --> 01:08:23.068
who will bring
their perspective.
01:08:23.068 --> 01:08:25.967
Different, maybe,
but it's their turn.
01:08:27.868 --> 01:08:29.735
This is not just
the last sitting day
01:08:29.735 --> 01:08:31.135
of the Supreme Court year.
01:08:31.135 --> 01:08:34.334
It is also the last sitting day
of my Supreme Court career.
01:08:35.235 --> 01:08:37.902
I remember how emotional
it was when was sworn in
01:08:37.902 --> 01:08:40.202
on October the 4th, 2004.
01:08:40.202 --> 01:08:42.868
But that was nothing
compared to how emotional
01:08:42.868 --> 01:08:44.601
it is to be sworn out.
01:08:44.601 --> 01:08:48.334
It was a very proud speech
about my generation,
01:08:49.035 --> 01:08:52.401
how Canada has blossomed
in the 50 years
01:08:52.401 --> 01:08:54.168
since I graduated
from law school.
01:08:54.168 --> 01:08:56.368
And I said,
okay, we've got to do this.
01:08:56.368 --> 01:08:59.668
We've to make this
worth listening to.
01:09:00.435 --> 01:09:03.434
Because I am not only
leaving my life on this Court,
01:09:04.002 --> 01:09:07.335
I'm leaving a judicial life
that started 45 years ago
01:09:07.335 --> 01:09:09.935
when Roy McMurtry appointed me
to the Family Division
01:09:09.935 --> 01:09:13.135
of the Provincial Court in 1976.
01:09:13.135 --> 01:09:15.134
The hardest part
was writing about my family.
01:09:15.935 --> 01:09:17.301
And that took me two hours.
01:09:18.135 --> 01:09:20.434
But I felt good
because I wasn't crying.
01:09:20.434 --> 01:09:22.768
And I always cry
when I talk about my family.
01:09:23.135 --> 01:09:25.335
But as I wrote it,
I wasn't crying.
01:09:25.335 --> 01:09:27.668
It's like, 'Oh my God,
this is going to be one speech
01:09:27.668 --> 01:09:29.768
where I don't break down
when I talk about my family.'
01:09:30.102 --> 01:09:32.600
And all of a sudden,
I could feel myself
01:09:33.134 --> 01:09:34.768
welling up and thinking,
01:09:34.768 --> 01:09:37.301
'oh, no, I'm not going to be
able to get through this.'
01:09:39.167 --> 01:09:40.935
My life as a lawyer and a Judge
01:09:40.935 --> 01:09:43.600
has been incredibly
intellectually fulfilling.
01:09:45.168 --> 01:09:48.001
But my real life,
the life of my heart,
01:09:49.068 --> 01:09:51.268
rests on the love
I feel for my family,
01:09:51.268 --> 01:09:52.301
(quiet sob)
01:09:52.301 --> 01:09:54.801
and the love they give back.
01:09:54.801 --> 01:09:57.368
And it was thinking
about my husband,
01:09:57.668 --> 01:09:59.835
and then
thinking about the kids.
01:09:59.835 --> 01:10:02.068
How do you know,
when you marry at 22,
01:10:02.068 --> 01:10:04.968
halfway through law school
that 53 years later,
01:10:04.968 --> 01:10:07.635
you will still love the
28 year-old visionary
01:10:07.635 --> 01:10:09.668
history professor you married,
01:10:09.668 --> 01:10:11.468
or that he will still love you?
01:10:12.135 --> 01:10:14.601
How do you know that
he will be the most supportive
01:10:14.601 --> 01:10:17.135
and humane parent
your children could have,
01:10:17.135 --> 01:10:20.967
or the most unconditionally
encouraging husband?
01:10:21.668 --> 01:10:23.469
And how could you know
01:10:23.469 --> 01:10:27.868
that these two sons you raised,
you raised together
01:10:27.868 --> 01:10:30.668
over the last 47 and 44 years
01:10:30.668 --> 01:10:33.102
would themselves
turn into such magnificent
01:10:33.102 --> 01:10:35.534
and brilliant people,
husbands and fathers?
01:10:36.269 --> 01:10:40.401
So to my spectacular husband
and sons, Jacob and Zachary,
01:10:40.768 --> 01:10:44.167
and especially their glorious
children, our grandchildren
01:10:44.167 --> 01:10:46.768
and our future,
Felix and Maisie,
01:10:47.269 --> 01:10:49.800
thank you for filling my life
with so much love,
01:10:50.268 --> 01:10:52.800
pride, gratitude and happiness.
01:10:53.601 --> 01:10:56.235
Then talking about my parents
who started it all.
01:10:56.235 --> 01:11:00.168
And, you know, the journey
from a displaced persons camp
01:11:00.168 --> 01:11:03.500
to the Supreme Court of Canada
as the first Jewish woman.
01:11:05.001 --> 01:11:05.967
It all hit me.
01:11:06.468 --> 01:11:08.268
It all hit me,
and I couldn't stop it.
01:11:08.968 --> 01:11:10.801
My final thoughts
are with two people
01:11:10.801 --> 01:11:12.635
who aren't here but
are always with me.
01:11:12.635 --> 01:11:14.668
(quiet sob)
01:11:14.668 --> 01:11:16.901
This day, like everything
else in my life
01:11:17.868 --> 01:11:19.967
would not be possible
without my parents.
01:11:21.768 --> 01:11:24.368
They were Holocaust survivors
01:11:24.368 --> 01:11:27.134
whose lives and families
were destroyed,
01:11:27.668 --> 01:11:29.735
but whose optimism and belief
01:11:29.735 --> 01:11:31.768
in the goodness
of people never were.
01:11:32.369 --> 01:11:35.202
They brought my sister
and me to Canada in 1950,
01:11:35.202 --> 01:11:37.600
with the highest hopes
for a happy life.
01:11:38.501 --> 01:11:40.134
They got it.
01:11:40.134 --> 01:11:41.468
And they gave it to me.
01:11:41.935 --> 01:11:44.334
I have been so lucky.
01:11:44.334 --> 01:11:47.368
And so on the eve
of my 75th birthday,
01:11:47.368 --> 01:11:49.368
on Canada Day,
01:11:49.368 --> 01:11:52.434
I say to Canada on their behalf,
thank you.
01:11:53.335 --> 01:11:55.834
Thank you for giving them
the life they dreamed of
01:11:56.534 --> 01:11:59.401
and for giving me a life
beyond their wildest dreams.
01:12:00.401 --> 01:12:03.268
I am so proud and lucky
to be a Canadian.
01:12:04.368 --> 01:12:05.468
Thank you.
01:12:05.468 --> 01:12:15.201
(applause)
01:12:19.068 --> 01:12:21.434
("Love Is Here to Stay"
by Frank Sinatra)
♪ It's very clear ♪
01:12:22.468 --> 01:12:25.101
♪ Our love is here to stay ♪
01:12:27.601 --> 01:12:30.102
- It's such a beautiful,
beautiful marriage,
01:12:30.102 --> 01:12:32.868
and their total
and complete love
01:12:32.868 --> 01:12:34.735
for each other
and support for each other.
01:12:35.135 --> 01:12:37.567
It glows. You just want
to be in their presence.
01:12:38.534 --> 01:12:40.301
♪ --and the telephone ♪
01:12:40.301 --> 01:12:41.601
J. Abella: That partnership,
01:12:41.601 --> 01:12:44.035
my mother and my father is the
01:12:44.035 --> 01:12:46.468
foundational partnership
of our lives.
01:12:46.468 --> 01:12:49.202
It is why and how
my mother achieved so much,
01:12:49.202 --> 01:12:51.968
and she will still
achieve even more, I believe.
01:12:51.968 --> 01:12:53.901
But she could not have
done it without my father.
01:12:53.901 --> 01:12:55.734
Z. Abella: She was
01:12:56.801 --> 01:13:00.534
the best friend that
any partner could have.
01:13:00.534 --> 01:13:02.635
Irving: When I was in
the hospital recently,
01:13:02.635 --> 01:13:06.134
Rosie not only came to visit,
she stayed,
01:13:06.134 --> 01:13:07.634
for five weeks.
01:13:08.468 --> 01:13:11.434
Rosie:
He'd had some issues with his
01:13:11.434 --> 01:13:13.369
heart, with his kidneys.
01:13:13.369 --> 01:13:16.534
He'd spent five and-a-half
weeks in the hospital
01:13:16.534 --> 01:13:19.135
the summer before,
with heart failure and
01:13:19.135 --> 01:13:22.467
almost died three or four times
that, in that period.
01:13:23.334 --> 01:13:26.433
Never once complained.
Never once!
01:13:28.868 --> 01:13:30.501
Z. Abella: She would
come home from hospital
01:13:30.501 --> 01:13:32.635
and there would be her grandkids
01:13:33.435 --> 01:13:36.301
and she would act like it was
just another day at the office.
01:13:36.668 --> 01:13:39.533
For them and for,
you know, frankly, for me
01:13:39.934 --> 01:13:41.001
and my brother.
01:13:42.868 --> 01:13:45.835
Irving: She slept in
a chair beside the bed
01:13:46.202 --> 01:13:48.768
and I couldn't get rid of her.
And she was terrific.
01:13:48.768 --> 01:13:50.901
She's my advocate, my partner.
01:13:51.301 --> 01:13:52.701
Rosie: He left the hospital
01:13:52.701 --> 01:13:54.533
at the end of the
five and-a-half weeks
01:13:55.468 --> 01:13:56.868
on dialysis.
01:13:56.868 --> 01:13:59.768
That was different
from when he had gone in,
01:14:00.269 --> 01:14:03.768
but his life was saved
by the extraordinary
01:14:03.768 --> 01:14:06.002
medical staff at the UHN.
01:14:06.002 --> 01:14:08.701
And we thought it was going
to be just a question of
01:14:08.701 --> 01:14:11.234
dealing with a
new life on dialysis.
01:14:12.534 --> 01:14:14.701
Z. Abella: She made sure
that anything he needed,
01:14:14.701 --> 01:14:15.800
he would have.
01:14:16.434 --> 01:14:18.902
She was the kind of person
01:14:18.902 --> 01:14:21.735
you would want by your side
if you're ever that situation.
01:14:22.102 --> 01:14:23.934
Rosie: Never felt
we were losing the battle.
01:14:25.201 --> 01:14:26.935
We felt strong.
01:14:26.935 --> 01:14:29.533
Like I was taking
my strength from him.
01:14:30.401 --> 01:14:31.401
He was--
01:14:33.735 --> 01:14:34.701
remarkable.
01:14:34.968 --> 01:14:36.501
We weren't looking ahead.
01:14:36.501 --> 01:14:38.767
We were looking day by day,
01:14:39.668 --> 01:14:40.901
issue by issue,
01:14:41.768 --> 01:14:43.401
crisis by crisis.
01:14:43.401 --> 01:14:45.368
And we were doing it together.
01:14:45.368 --> 01:14:56.268
♪ (soft mournful note) ♪
01:14:56.268 --> 01:14:57.368
He was my life.
01:14:59.601 --> 01:15:01.001
And the kid's life.
01:15:01.001 --> 01:15:03.401
He was modest.
01:15:03.401 --> 01:15:04.967
He was fearless.
01:15:05.968 --> 01:15:08.501
He was decent. He was honest.
01:15:08.501 --> 01:15:11.001
He was...gentle.
01:15:12.934 --> 01:15:14.268
He was so loving.
01:15:24.534 --> 01:15:25.667
You don't give up.
01:15:28.301 --> 01:15:29.434
You don't stop.
01:15:32.668 --> 01:15:33.901
You don't forget.
01:15:37.768 --> 01:15:39.468
That's how you
honor their memory.
01:15:42.602 --> 01:15:45.167
You live the life you know they
would have wanted you to have.
01:15:47.434 --> 01:15:48.667
It's all you can do.
01:15:58.401 --> 01:16:03.067
♪ (gentle piano music) ♪
01:16:03.067 --> 01:16:05.834
Law sets the beginning
01:16:07.001 --> 01:16:09.401
of how society functions.
01:16:09.401 --> 01:16:11.468
But lawyers and judges,
01:16:11.468 --> 01:16:15.034
they take those,
those bones and they
01:16:16.068 --> 01:16:19.034
introduce humanity
to the possibility of justice,
01:16:19.534 --> 01:16:22.534<
Distributor: Collective Eye Films
Length: 84 minutes
Date: 2023
Genre: Expository
Language: English / English subtitles
Grade: 10-12, College, Adults
Color/BW:
Closed Captioning: Available
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