00:00:24.601 --> 00:00:25.434
Rosie: This is not just
the last sitting day

00:00:25.434 --> 00:00:26.935
of the Supreme Court year.

00:00:26.935 --> 00:00:30.134
It is also the last sitting day
of my Supreme Court career.

00:00:31.101 --> 00:00:32.601
People like me,

00:00:32.601 --> 00:00:35.835
female, Jewish,
immigrant, refugee,

00:00:35.835 --> 00:00:38.568
weren't exactly being appointed
to the bench in droves.

00:00:39.269 --> 00:00:41.902
But if somebody wanted
to make me a judge,

00:00:41.902 --> 00:00:44.001
who was I to say no
to the opportunity?

00:00:44.768 --> 00:00:47.735
After all, immigrants
live for opportunities,

00:00:47.735 --> 00:00:48.934
not entitlements.

00:00:52.001 --> 00:00:56.001
♪ (jazzy music) ♪

00:01:30.368 --> 00:01:42.434
♪ (dramatic orchestral music) ♪

00:02:26.067 --> 00:02:28.768
- Who doesn't know Rosie Abella?

00:02:28.768 --> 00:02:31.434
Everyone knows Rosie Abella.

00:02:35.801 --> 00:02:38.368
- She was the youngest judge
in Canadian history.

00:02:38.368 --> 00:02:40.968
Solomon: 17 years
as a Supreme Court judge.

00:02:40.968 --> 00:02:44.035
- One of the great living
justices in the world.

00:02:44.335 --> 00:02:47.067
Mulroney: Great sense of humor.
Great sense of history.

00:02:48.368 --> 00:02:49.735
- A challenging figure
in terms of

00:02:49.735 --> 00:02:51.334
what she stands for
as a thinker.

00:02:52.701 --> 00:02:54.768
M. Atkins: Rosie was a
roll-up-your-sleeves person.

00:02:54.768 --> 00:02:56.801
- Who was able to move
institutions

00:02:56.801 --> 00:02:58.401
and thinking forward.

00:02:58.401 --> 00:03:00.735
Solomon: Rosalie Abella
leaves the bench,

00:03:00.735 --> 00:03:02.835
but she leaves a long legacy.

00:03:02.835 --> 00:03:04.501
Rosie: I wrote a
gay rights judgment.

00:03:04.501 --> 00:03:06.434
- She was really taking
very seriously

00:03:06.434 --> 00:03:08.635
the rights of women,
other minorities.

00:03:08.935 --> 00:03:11.334
- Her decisions have had
such a wide-ranging impact

00:03:11.334 --> 00:03:13.135
on Canadian society.

00:03:13.135 --> 00:03:16.001
- Very inspiring, influential,
definitely iconic.

00:03:16.968 --> 00:03:19.768
- Humanitarian
and a compassionate judge.

00:03:19.768 --> 00:03:23.301
- She's also lectured, spoken,

00:03:23.301 --> 00:03:25.501
taught around the world.

00:03:25.501 --> 00:03:26.935
Martin: Well, there's
no doubt about her drive.

00:03:26.935 --> 00:03:29.135
But she is also a lot of fun.

00:03:29.135 --> 00:03:33.001
- There's no other adjective
I can say except, she's Rosie.

00:03:38.501 --> 00:03:45.636
♪ (soft jazzy piano music) ♪

00:03:45.636 --> 00:03:49.234
Rosie: This is the office I've
been in for the last few years.

00:03:49.234 --> 00:03:51.800
It's...an incredible office.

00:03:52.334 --> 00:03:54.501
It feels like home to me

00:03:54.501 --> 00:03:56.601
and I'm so comfortable in here.

00:03:56.601 --> 00:03:59.801
These are all things that
make me happy and smile.

00:04:00.269 --> 00:04:03.235
I always look at my kids,
every office I've been in,

00:04:03.235 --> 00:04:07.701
I've made sure that my desk
is facing the picture of them

00:04:07.701 --> 00:04:09.534
when they were 9 and 12.

00:04:10.235 --> 00:04:13.335
The Gershwin poster
always makes me happy

00:04:13.335 --> 00:04:16.034
because those are my
second-favorite brothers.

00:04:17.701 --> 00:04:19.801
This was my father's diploma

00:04:19.801 --> 00:04:21.700
from the Jagiellonian University

00:04:22.334 --> 00:04:25.501
that he graduated from in 1934.

00:04:25.501 --> 00:04:29.668
He was there from 1930 to 1934.

00:04:29.668 --> 00:04:31.168
When we went to Poland,

00:04:31.168 --> 00:04:34.801
my husband and I went to the
Jagiellonian Law School

00:04:34.801 --> 00:04:38.101
and I said to the person
who showed us around,

00:04:39.002 --> 00:04:41.834
'Is there anywhere
I could see what he studied?'

00:04:42.568 --> 00:04:46.002
What I saw was that
his religion was mentioned

00:04:46.002 --> 00:04:48.101
in three different places,
Jewish.

00:04:48.635 --> 00:04:51.468
I asked her about
the religion and she,

00:04:51.468 --> 00:04:54.368
she said, you know,

00:04:54.368 --> 00:04:56.035
hats off to your father.

00:04:56.035 --> 00:04:59.334
It was very hard to be
Jewish here in those days.

00:05:00.201 --> 00:05:01.401
And so I cried.

00:05:04.735 --> 00:05:07.768
Gopnik: The story of how
her parents

00:05:07.768 --> 00:05:09.868
came to Canada,

00:05:09.868 --> 00:05:12.101
to come out of the background
of the Holocaust,

00:05:12.101 --> 00:05:13.835
to become the most revered

00:05:13.835 --> 00:05:15.735
justice in recent
Canadian history.

00:05:15.735 --> 00:05:17.534
That's an
extraordinary story.

00:05:17.534 --> 00:05:19.268
And it's the kind of
'only in Canada' story.

00:05:20.701 --> 00:05:22.135
Rosie: In fact,

00:05:22.135 --> 00:05:24.935
I didn't know my mother had
owned a factory in Poland

00:05:24.935 --> 00:05:27.035
because all she did
was talk about

00:05:27.035 --> 00:05:28.968
my father
and how brilliant he was,

00:05:28.968 --> 00:05:32.967
and how he went to university on
scholarship and Jews didn't.

00:05:34.701 --> 00:05:36.368
One of the things that I found

00:05:36.368 --> 00:05:39.801
this is from
the district judge of Reddam.

00:05:39.801 --> 00:05:42.968
It is further mentioned that
at the order of the President

00:05:42.968 --> 00:05:45.301
of the Court of Appeal
at Lublin,

00:05:45.301 --> 00:05:48.568
as of July 26, 1939,

00:05:48.568 --> 00:05:53.368
Mr. Silberman was admitted
to the examination as a judge.

00:05:54.269 --> 00:05:58.134
In the period
26 to 28th October, 1939.

00:05:58.868 --> 00:06:01.368
I never knew that he had
applied to become a judge.

00:06:01.735 --> 00:06:05.134
But of course, October '39,
the war started and there was no

00:06:05.668 --> 00:06:07.667
no practicing law and never mind

00:06:08.468 --> 00:06:09.767
becoming a judge.

00:06:12.002 --> 00:06:14.401
My parents ended up
in concentration camps

00:06:14.401 --> 00:06:16.701
for most of the
Second World War.

00:06:16.701 --> 00:06:20.434
They had a child, my brother,
who was two and-a-half,

00:06:20.434 --> 00:06:21.835
who was killed at Treblinka,

00:06:21.835 --> 00:06:24.667
and my father's whole family
was killed at Treblinka.

00:06:26.535 --> 00:06:29.668
I kept asking, what was it
like in the concentration camps?

00:06:29.668 --> 00:06:32.134
They never talked
about what they had lost.

00:06:32.134 --> 00:06:34.034
Even talking about their son.

00:06:34.034 --> 00:06:35.534
They just were not people

00:06:35.534 --> 00:06:39.201
who complained about
what had gone before.

00:06:41.202 --> 00:06:43.234
So these are the papers
that my mother gave me.

00:06:43.534 --> 00:06:45.601
And this is my father
when he was Head of the

00:06:45.601 --> 00:06:48.001
Displaced Persons Camp
in southwest Germany,

00:06:48.668 --> 00:06:51.001
where they went after the war
and where I was born.

00:06:51.668 --> 00:06:52.768
Z. Abella: You know,
you would never know

00:06:52.768 --> 00:06:54.468
by going into our household,
the horrors

00:06:54.468 --> 00:06:57.301
that she would have heard
growing up in her house

00:06:57.902 --> 00:07:00.568
with her
survivor parents,

00:07:00.868 --> 00:07:02.500
and her survivor
grandmother.

00:07:05.935 --> 00:07:07.902
Rosie:
Of all the houses I went into

00:07:07.902 --> 00:07:10.601
as a child growing up,
mine was the happiest.

00:07:11.002 --> 00:07:12.868
They were the
happiest people I knew.

00:07:12.868 --> 00:07:16.501
I felt I was
floating through childhood.

00:07:17.035 --> 00:07:18.701
Farber: I honestly think
it's her immigrant experience

00:07:18.701 --> 00:07:21.234
being born in Europe, postwar,

00:07:21.735 --> 00:07:23.568
coming to a country that

00:07:23.568 --> 00:07:26.668
welcomed her on one hand,
but didn't allow her parents

00:07:26.668 --> 00:07:28.867
to accomplish
what they wanted to accomplish.

00:07:33.501 --> 00:07:35.834
Rosie: This was from the
Law Society of Upper Canada,

00:07:35.834 --> 00:07:36.834
where he went

00:07:37.668 --> 00:07:40.568
in order to see if he could
practice law in Canada,

00:07:40.568 --> 00:07:41.768
and they said no.

00:07:41.768 --> 00:07:45.668
But I want to show you
that there were letters here,

00:07:45.668 --> 00:07:48.601
from lawyers and judges
he worked with in Germany,

00:07:48.601 --> 00:07:52.068
that just recommended him
for jobs in Canada.

00:07:52.068 --> 00:07:54.335
He just assumed
he was going to practice.

00:07:54.335 --> 00:07:57.334
My decision about being
a lawyer was only because

00:07:58.101 --> 00:08:00.434
I heard at the age of four

00:08:00.434 --> 00:08:02.202
that the Law Society
had told my father

00:08:02.202 --> 00:08:04.534
he couldn't be a lawyer
because he wasn't a citizen.

00:08:04.534 --> 00:08:06.135
So when I said,

00:08:06.135 --> 00:08:08.102
'you can't do that,
I'm going to do that,'

00:08:08.102 --> 00:08:10.401
I had no idea
what I was talking about.

00:08:12.434 --> 00:08:13.935
I remember my father saying,

00:08:13.935 --> 00:08:15.234
'Don't worry about
being popular.

00:08:16.035 --> 00:08:18.301
The most important thing is
for people to respect you.'

00:08:19.067 --> 00:08:21.533
And so I grew up thinking,

00:08:22.234 --> 00:08:23.601
I do want that.

00:08:23.601 --> 00:08:26.101
And I worked even in
public school and high school.

00:08:27.102 --> 00:08:29.501
But I also didn't
mind being popular.

00:08:29.501 --> 00:08:31.234
I'm a girl. What can I say?

00:08:31.234 --> 00:08:33.301
So that...that mattered too.

00:08:35.501 --> 00:08:38.468
And one night
when I was about 11 or 12,

00:08:38.468 --> 00:08:40.668
I was in the basement
with my grandmother,

00:08:40.668 --> 00:08:43.334
watching her prepare
for the Passover Seder.

00:08:43.334 --> 00:08:45.234
They said, 'You,
don't you do the housework.

00:08:45.234 --> 00:08:46.734
We'll do it.
Go do your homework.'

00:08:48.601 --> 00:08:50.835
It wasn't until I read
Les Miserables,

00:08:50.835 --> 00:08:53.002
when I was 12 or 13,

00:08:53.002 --> 00:08:56.268
that I connected
what I wanted to do,

00:08:56.268 --> 00:08:58.401
with what justice is,

00:08:58.401 --> 00:09:00.868
because of the
gross injustice in that book.

00:09:01.469 --> 00:09:05.301
So I went from being a child
who just, by rote said,

00:09:05.301 --> 00:09:06.268
I want to be a lawyer,

00:09:06.268 --> 00:09:08.635
which people
patted me on the head for

00:09:08.635 --> 00:09:11.368
and pinched my cheeks
at weddings and bar mitzvahs,

00:09:11.368 --> 00:09:12.835
'Isn't she cute, she
wants to be a lawyer?'

00:09:12.835 --> 00:09:14.567
to actually wanting
to be a lawyer.

00:09:15.501 --> 00:09:17.868
My parents
talk to me like an adult.

00:09:17.868 --> 00:09:22.402
And they also left
a very strong sense in me

00:09:22.402 --> 00:09:25.301
that I had a responsibility
to pay Canada back.

00:09:25.835 --> 00:09:28.534
That we'd been given a gift
of being able to come here.

00:09:28.902 --> 00:09:31.334
And I had to repay that gift,

00:09:31.334 --> 00:09:33.668
by being somebody Canada would

00:09:33.668 --> 00:09:35.867
one day be proud of.

00:09:38.067 --> 00:09:41.468
♪ (jazz music) ♪

00:09:47.334 --> 00:09:49.168
I got to law school where

00:09:49.168 --> 00:09:51.568
there were a lot of rules and
a lot of cases to read.

00:09:51.568 --> 00:09:53.168
Not all of them
very interesting.

00:09:53.168 --> 00:09:55.534
And I thought, God,
I hope I'm doing the right thing

00:09:55.534 --> 00:09:59.201
because this doesn't
seem to be helping anybody.

00:09:59.668 --> 00:10:01.134
But those are the
tools of the trade

00:10:01.134 --> 00:10:02.967
that you have to know how to do.

00:10:04.435 --> 00:10:08.434
♪ Holding hands at midnight ♪
("Nice Work If You Can Get It"
by Ella Fitzgerald)

00:10:08.434 --> 00:10:12.768
♪ 'Neath a starry sky ♪

00:10:12.768 --> 00:10:15.902
♪ Nice work if you can get it ♪

00:10:15.902 --> 00:10:19.468
♪ And you can get it
if you try ♪

00:10:19.468 --> 00:10:21.968
I remember the call
to the bar in 1972

00:10:21.968 --> 00:10:24.568
because there were 520 people

00:10:25.035 --> 00:10:28.301
at the O'Keefe Center,
14 - 15 women.

00:10:28.301 --> 00:10:30.002
And I thought, 'Oh!

00:10:30.002 --> 00:10:32.434
Wow, this is
going to be different.'

00:10:33.202 --> 00:10:36.001
Because I never felt
like a minority in my life.

00:10:36.501 --> 00:10:39.301
But this was the beginning
of real life.

00:10:39.801 --> 00:10:43.667
So I wasn't scared, but I wasn't
sure what was waiting for me.

00:10:45.501 --> 00:10:48.135
So I continued being who I was,

00:10:48.502 --> 00:10:51.534
from the minute I graduated from
law school and met a client.

00:10:51.902 --> 00:10:54.201
Like it's all a sense
of responsibility.

00:10:54.568 --> 00:10:56.734
You're not there
for you anymore.

00:10:59.801 --> 00:11:01.868
So the one thing I realized

00:11:01.868 --> 00:11:03.534
when I hit the legal profession,

00:11:03.534 --> 00:11:06.534
was that there were
a lot of people in it,

00:11:06.534 --> 00:11:09.434
whose fathers or grandfathers
had been lawyers,

00:11:09.434 --> 00:11:12.534
who came from
very successful families.

00:11:12.935 --> 00:11:16.202
And who kind of expected
that they would go to law school

00:11:16.202 --> 00:11:19.067
and be lawyers, that they
would go to the best firms,

00:11:19.067 --> 00:11:21.235
that they would be judges.

00:11:21.235 --> 00:11:23.902
Immigrants don't feel that.
Immigrants never feel that

00:11:23.902 --> 00:11:25.635
they're entitled to anything.

00:11:25.635 --> 00:11:26.968
If you thought

00:11:26.968 --> 00:11:30.501
you wanted to do something,
you had to invest the time,

00:11:30.935 --> 00:11:32.635
you had to make the effort,

00:11:32.635 --> 00:11:35.269
you had to probably
be better than anybody else.

00:11:35.269 --> 00:11:37.601
And then if you were lucky,
it would happen.

00:11:37.601 --> 00:11:39.568
(Ella Fitzgerald singing)
♪ --work if you can get it ♪

00:11:39.568 --> 00:11:43.269
♪ And you can get it
if you try ♪

00:11:43.269 --> 00:11:45.667
Most of my friends from law
school went into big firms,

00:11:46.067 --> 00:11:47.701
big, big firms.

00:11:47.701 --> 00:11:49.468
Almost nobody went into

00:11:49.468 --> 00:11:51.768
a firm of one lawyer,

00:11:51.768 --> 00:11:54.101
who was a wonderful man,
Vince Kelly.

00:11:54.101 --> 00:11:55.668
He did labor law.

00:11:55.668 --> 00:11:58.801
He did criminal, civil.
So I did everything.

00:11:58.801 --> 00:12:00.968
After two years with him,
I wanted to be on my own.

00:12:00.968 --> 00:12:04.434
I wanted to control what clients
I was going to take,

00:12:04.434 --> 00:12:05.768
what clients
I wasn't going to take.

00:12:05.768 --> 00:12:06.835
I didn't care about the money.

00:12:06.835 --> 00:12:09.501
♪ Nice work, nice work ♪

00:12:09.501 --> 00:12:11.334
I had my own firm.

00:12:11.334 --> 00:12:12.801
One lawyer, just me.

00:12:12.801 --> 00:12:15.902
At the corner of
Bay and Queen and I loved it.

00:12:15.902 --> 00:12:18.134
I would have done that forever.
Practiced law.

00:12:18.701 --> 00:12:21.668
It was exhilarating
to be downtown,

00:12:21.668 --> 00:12:25.168
walk into the courts
for a client, settle cases.

00:12:25.168 --> 00:12:29.001
In those days, and the
profession was really wonderful.

00:12:29.635 --> 00:12:32.701
Host: Rosalie Abella, a lawyer,
I'd like to ask you,

00:12:32.701 --> 00:12:34.801
what about the matrimonial home?

00:12:35.202 --> 00:12:36.768
Abella: It's a system
of separate property,

00:12:36.768 --> 00:12:38.868
and separate property
essentially means that

00:12:38.868 --> 00:12:40.501
whoever paid for it
and acquired it,

00:12:40.501 --> 00:12:43.668
and in whoever's name
that property is registered

00:12:43.668 --> 00:12:44.668
owns the property.

00:12:44.668 --> 00:12:46.601
The education started
with clients

00:12:46.601 --> 00:12:47.635
who were telling me things

00:12:47.635 --> 00:12:49.534
that were
very different realities

00:12:49.534 --> 00:12:51.801
from what I had learned
in law school from the cases.

00:12:52.302 --> 00:12:55.600
So they were my introduction
to what life was like for most

00:12:55.967 --> 00:12:57.501
women in particular.

00:12:57.501 --> 00:13:00.268
No childcare, underpaid jobs,

00:13:00.835 --> 00:13:04.768
the grind of working as a
spouse, but not being able

00:13:04.768 --> 00:13:07.935
to get a share of the property
if there was a divorce,

00:13:07.935 --> 00:13:09.868
because you didn't
contribute financially.

00:13:09.868 --> 00:13:12.401
But of course you couldn't,
because you didn't have a job.

00:13:17.835 --> 00:13:19.601
Those four years of practice

00:13:19.601 --> 00:13:21.868
introduced me to realities
that were very different

00:13:21.868 --> 00:13:23.368
from what I'd heard
about at law school,

00:13:23.368 --> 00:13:24.935
or from what I'd experienced.

00:13:24.935 --> 00:13:27.934
♪ (jazzy piano music)♪

00:13:31.136 --> 00:13:39.767
♪ Hmmmm, I've got a
crush on someone ♪
("I've Got A Crush On You"
by Ella Fitzgerald)

00:13:42.034 --> 00:13:45.701
♪ Guess, who? ♪

00:13:45.701 --> 00:13:47.401
Irving: I was a PhD student.

00:13:47.401 --> 00:13:49.534
I had just come
back from Berkeley,

00:13:50.002 --> 00:13:52.067
and here was a second-year

00:13:52.067 --> 00:13:54.102
university college student

00:13:54.102 --> 00:13:57.268
who kept following me.
No matter where I went,

00:13:57.268 --> 00:13:58.600
there was Rosie.

00:13:59.568 --> 00:14:02.068
I had a carrel desk

00:14:02.068 --> 00:14:05.601
in the second floor
of the library

00:14:05.601 --> 00:14:09.134
at the University of Toronto,
and they were reserved.

00:14:09.434 --> 00:14:11.068
And so I would go down there,

00:14:11.068 --> 00:14:13.967
sit every day, and behind me...
it was Rosie!

00:14:14.835 --> 00:14:17.002
Rosie: Sometimes doing
my own work, but mostly,

00:14:17.002 --> 00:14:19.734
just waiting for him,
so I could talk to him,

00:14:20.801 --> 00:14:22.335
ask him out for coffee.

00:14:22.335 --> 00:14:25.168
Irving: And she would wait
until I went home and said,

00:14:25.168 --> 00:14:27.034
'Can I drive you somewhere?'
(chuckles)

00:14:27.434 --> 00:14:29.002
Rosie: So I came home
and I said to my parents,

00:14:29.002 --> 00:14:30.434
I met the guy
I'm going to marry.

00:14:30.434 --> 00:14:33.767
Now, it took him three years
to agree with me

00:14:34.301 --> 00:14:36.934
that that was
a mutual proposition.

00:14:37.401 --> 00:14:40.801
But I never stopped feeling

00:14:40.801 --> 00:14:43.134
that this was the man
I wanted to spend my life with.

00:14:43.134 --> 00:14:45.434
♪ But you had such persistence ♪

00:14:45.434 --> 00:14:48.668
♪ You wore down my resistance
I fell... ♪

00:14:48.668 --> 00:14:50.700
Irving: And that was
our relationship for

00:14:51.668 --> 00:14:53.435
Rosie: 50 years!
Irving: For...

00:14:53.435 --> 00:14:56.501
for at least three years and
then I fell in love with her.

00:14:56.501 --> 00:14:57.734
Rosie: After we were married?

00:14:58.935 --> 00:15:00.735
Irving: Soon after.
Rosie: Soon after!

00:15:01.235 --> 00:15:06.534
♪ You're my big and brave
and handsome Romeo ♪

00:15:06.534 --> 00:15:08.501
♪ How I won you ♪

00:15:08.501 --> 00:15:13.234
♪ I shall never, never know ♪

00:15:13.234 --> 00:15:18.835
♪ I've got a crush on you, ♪

00:15:18.835 --> 00:15:22.401
♪ Sweetie pie,
all the day... ♪

00:15:22.401 --> 00:15:25.067
Rosie: The idea that
he would be somebody

00:15:25.067 --> 00:15:27.168
who would welcome having a wife,

00:15:27.168 --> 00:15:29.501
who was going to have a career,
and I was,

00:15:29.501 --> 00:15:30.701
and who turned out to be

00:15:30.701 --> 00:15:34.002
the most remarkable
father to our two sons.

00:15:34.002 --> 00:15:35.634
None of that is predictable.

00:15:36.668 --> 00:15:38.968
I'm in awe of
everything about him,

00:15:38.968 --> 00:15:42.601
but mostly what I'm in awe of,
is that I got him.

00:15:42.601 --> 00:15:44.402
I, I never gave up.

00:15:44.402 --> 00:15:47.235
People kept staring at
what I was doing and saying,

00:15:47.235 --> 00:15:49.734
'How can you--, he's not
interested.' I know!

00:15:50.401 --> 00:15:52.235
It's fine. I am.

00:15:52.235 --> 00:15:54.001
I'm interested enough
for both of us.

00:15:55.002 --> 00:15:59.302
♪ The world will pardon
my mush ♪

00:15:59.302 --> 00:16:01.601
Z. Abella: They are
completely sympatico.

00:16:01.601 --> 00:16:05.068
They know each other
better than any

00:16:05.068 --> 00:16:06.801
two people
could know each other.

00:16:06.801 --> 00:16:08.534
- It's hard to
explain the synergy,

00:16:08.534 --> 00:16:09.568
how they fed off each other.

00:16:09.568 --> 00:16:11.967
But he leaned in,
before anyone else did.

00:16:13.302 --> 00:16:16.902
Rosie: In our house, he is a man
who knows how to navigate,

00:16:16.902 --> 00:16:19.667
so that every single member
of the family has their turn.

00:16:20.534 --> 00:16:23.867
And he's willing
to put himself second

00:16:24.801 --> 00:16:28.268
in order for each of
our kids as they need it.

00:16:28.268 --> 00:16:29.701
Bronfman:
They are quite a couple,

00:16:29.701 --> 00:16:31.935
and it is and was,

00:16:31.935 --> 00:16:34.202
a balancing act always.

00:16:34.202 --> 00:16:36.135
Z. Abella: They knew that
my mum is a lot more

00:16:36.135 --> 00:16:39.268
front and center and
'Broadway" and my dad

00:16:40.234 --> 00:16:42.867
hung back in his way,
was quieter,

00:16:43.935 --> 00:16:47.068
Mulroney: I mean, Mila always
used to say about Rosie,

00:16:47.068 --> 00:16:49.035
Brian, look,
what do you want?

00:16:49.035 --> 00:16:51.768
Here, she's a great wife,
she's a great mother,

00:16:51.768 --> 00:16:53.568
she's a great jurist,

00:16:53.568 --> 00:16:56.434
and she plays the piano
like a concert pianist.

00:16:56.434 --> 00:16:57.700
What else do you want?

00:16:57.700 --> 00:16:59.768
(laughs)

00:16:59.768 --> 00:17:03.368
♪ (classical piano music) ♪

00:17:11.002 --> 00:17:13.035
Rosie: And he guides me.
I trust his judgment.

00:17:13.035 --> 00:17:16.468
He's the only one
I always go to for advice.

00:17:16.468 --> 00:17:18.269
The only one.
And he's never wrong.

00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:21.035
I told you that before.
He's never wrong.

00:17:21.035 --> 00:17:22.868
Irving: You're
the one who's wrong.

00:17:22.868 --> 00:17:25.301
Rosie: I know, but I wasn't
wrong in picking you.

00:17:25.301 --> 00:17:26.967
That was really smart!

00:17:30.368 --> 00:17:34.834
♪ (jazzy upbeat music) ♪

00:17:41.202 --> 00:17:43.501
Rosie: Life changes
because I get a phone call

00:17:43.501 --> 00:17:45.968
from the chief judge
of the Family Court.

00:17:46.369 --> 00:17:49.501
Reed: Family court. The place
where tears run freely

00:17:49.501 --> 00:17:53.001
and authorities make Kleenex
available everywhere.

00:17:53.001 --> 00:17:54.801
Emotions run high.

00:17:54.801 --> 00:17:58.035
This is the place where
families finally break down.

00:17:58.035 --> 00:18:00.601
Custody goes to
one parent or the other,

00:18:00.601 --> 00:18:03.835
and children must face up
to their crimes.

00:18:03.835 --> 00:18:06.002
Rosie: I was seven months
pregnant with our second son.

00:18:06.402 --> 00:18:09.134
Remember Roy McMurtry, who was
then the attorney general,

00:18:09.134 --> 00:18:10.735
whose decision it was.

00:18:10.735 --> 00:18:12.534
And I'm meeting him
in the afternoon

00:18:12.534 --> 00:18:14.102
and he looked down at
my stomach and he said,

00:18:14.102 --> 00:18:16.434
'When did that happen?'
I said, 'Seven months ago.'

00:18:16.434 --> 00:18:17.902
He said, 'Well, it's too late,

00:18:17.902 --> 00:18:20.500
I put your name before cabinet,
it's going on Monday.'

00:18:21.601 --> 00:18:24.002
They were looking
for women judges

00:18:24.002 --> 00:18:25.700
and there weren't any
on the Family Court.

00:18:26.101 --> 00:18:29.368
And so, I called my husband.

00:18:29.368 --> 00:18:30.668
He wasn't sure.

00:18:30.668 --> 00:18:33.001
He told me how much
I earned that year.

00:18:33.001 --> 00:18:34.568
I had no idea.

00:18:34.568 --> 00:18:37.401
And I was going to be
taking about a fifth.

00:18:38.034 --> 00:18:39.434
But it didn't matter.

00:18:39.434 --> 00:18:43.202
I thought it was a challenge
I couldn't resist.

00:18:43.202 --> 00:18:45.434
Host: Tonight we look at one of
the new breed of judges,

00:18:45.434 --> 00:18:47.269
Rosie Silberman Abella.

00:18:47.269 --> 00:18:49.234
Who, when she was
appointed to the bench,

00:18:49.234 --> 00:18:51.368
was the youngest woman
in that job.

00:18:51.368 --> 00:18:53.168
Rosie: But the
Family Court taught me

00:18:53.168 --> 00:18:55.435
a different level of despair,
because the people

00:18:55.435 --> 00:18:58.001
who went to the Family Court
for their family problems,

00:18:58.835 --> 00:19:01.401
were the people who usually
could not afford a lawyer.

00:19:02.401 --> 00:19:04.468
And they were the people

00:19:04.468 --> 00:19:07.268
who couldn't get a sense of
ownership in society,

00:19:07.768 --> 00:19:09.867
because they had
no access into it.

00:19:10.601 --> 00:19:14.067
They really were struggling
with their children,

00:19:14.067 --> 00:19:16.401
struggling with their spouses,

00:19:16.401 --> 00:19:18.268
struggling with poverty.

00:19:18.768 --> 00:19:21.234
I mean, I learned to listen
as a Family Court judge.

00:19:21.835 --> 00:19:25.102
I learned you don't look at
these cases from the top down,

00:19:25.102 --> 00:19:27.835
from what your life is like,
what your kids are like.

00:19:27.835 --> 00:19:30.668
What are they telling you
are the barriers

00:19:30.668 --> 00:19:34.434
to their being able to
get through their parenting,

00:19:34.434 --> 00:19:36.234
their spousal relationships?

00:19:37.168 --> 00:19:39.301
Sometimes there are
20, 30 cases a day!

00:19:39.935 --> 00:19:42.801
Making decisions
about their children,

00:19:42.801 --> 00:19:45.268
their lives, their
survival economically,

00:19:45.568 --> 00:19:48.434
that wasn't going to do harm,
if possible.

00:19:52.801 --> 00:19:54.035
That's where I learned

00:19:54.035 --> 00:19:56.568
that law isn't just about rules.

00:19:56.568 --> 00:19:59.101
Justice is about
the application of

00:19:59.101 --> 00:20:00.834
the rules to life.

00:20:00.834 --> 00:20:02.635
Is it wise?

00:20:02.635 --> 00:20:04.334
Not how smart
you are as a judge.

00:20:04.334 --> 00:20:05.934
Are you wise as a judge?

00:20:08.002 --> 00:20:12.268
That was an intense year
where I learned

00:20:12.268 --> 00:20:15.067
about a whole other range
of vulnerability

00:20:15.568 --> 00:20:17.635
and disadvantage
that I had not been

00:20:18.202 --> 00:20:20.735
exposed to either
in law school or in life.

00:20:21.068 --> 00:20:23.968
And that changed me.
So everything I've done

00:20:23.968 --> 00:20:26.268
that exposed me
to something different

00:20:26.268 --> 00:20:27.668
from what I know,

00:20:27.668 --> 00:20:29.101
made it easier for me

00:20:29.568 --> 00:20:31.935
as it turned out,
to do the next thing.

00:20:31.935 --> 00:20:37.334
♪ (upbeat jazz music) ♪

00:20:37.334 --> 00:20:39.101
I did not know

00:20:39.101 --> 00:20:40.768
if this was going to work.

00:20:40.768 --> 00:20:43.834
Having children and a career
and I'm a workaholic,

00:20:44.668 --> 00:20:46.635
so I figured out early on,

00:20:46.635 --> 00:20:48.801
I came home every day for dinner

00:20:48.801 --> 00:20:50.301
and then I went back downtown

00:20:50.768 --> 00:20:53.467
to finish my work every night
after the kids were in bed.

00:20:56.268 --> 00:20:58.635
- Abella home video tape.

00:20:58.635 --> 00:20:59.968
Tell me about the
Abella mystique?

00:20:59.968 --> 00:21:01.635
Irving: The Abella's
have never made a mistake

00:21:01.635 --> 00:21:04.302
in their lives. It's part
of the Abella mystique

00:21:04.302 --> 00:21:06.868
not to make mistakes.
So there is no Abella mistake.

00:21:06.868 --> 00:21:09.635
And the only mistake we had
was in buying somebody a camera.

00:21:10.835 --> 00:21:12.668
Z. Abella: She was
home as much as possible.

00:21:12.668 --> 00:21:15.167
I used to joke, because it
was an easy laugh line

00:21:15.167 --> 00:21:17.001
that she wasn't home that often.

00:21:17.001 --> 00:21:18.369
But the truth is, she was.

00:21:18.369 --> 00:21:20.135
J. Abella: It's extraordinary
because I try and think of that,

00:21:20.135 --> 00:21:22.134
you know, as I entered
parenthood and as I,

00:21:22.534 --> 00:21:24.501
you know, tried to juggle
work and one kid,

00:21:24.501 --> 00:21:26.835
how she was able
to do everything she did

00:21:26.835 --> 00:21:28.735
and still make both
my brother and I feel like

00:21:28.735 --> 00:21:30.735
we were quite literally
the center of the universe.

00:21:30.735 --> 00:21:33.401
Z. Abella: And people usually
have difficulty believing that

00:21:33.401 --> 00:21:35.768
we could have had
such a normal home life.

00:21:35.768 --> 00:21:37.534
But we did,
and that was by design.

00:21:37.534 --> 00:21:40.701
They didn't want us to have any

00:21:40.701 --> 00:21:43.334
really external pressures beyond

00:21:43.334 --> 00:21:45.533
just growing up
in Toronto and being

00:21:46.167 --> 00:21:47.501
successful.

00:21:47.501 --> 00:21:50.734
♪ (jazzy music) ♪

00:21:55.202 --> 00:21:57.735
J. Abella: Can you please go
away? I have work to do, please?

00:21:57.735 --> 00:22:00.167
My mother was a very
wonderful and present mother,

00:22:00.167 --> 00:22:02.035
despite having a career.

00:22:02.035 --> 00:22:04.401
But my father,
he really stepped up.

00:22:04.401 --> 00:22:06.201
I mean, he played
such an incredible

00:22:06.201 --> 00:22:07.401
and important role
in raising us.

00:22:07.401 --> 00:22:08.668
Rosie: He never said,
'Just a second,

00:22:08.668 --> 00:22:09.835
I have to finish this book.'

00:22:09.835 --> 00:22:12.768
EVER! He was 100%

00:22:12.768 --> 00:22:15.433
available to all of us.
To all three of us.

00:22:16.534 --> 00:22:18.568
Irving: As an academic,
I could do that

00:22:18.568 --> 00:22:21.434
while Rosie was out
doing what she had to do.

00:22:21.434 --> 00:22:23.568
And then when I was busy,
she would take over.

00:22:23.568 --> 00:22:26.268
So there was a
a mixture of foreground

00:22:26.268 --> 00:22:28.068
and background
for the two of us.

00:22:28.068 --> 00:22:29.935
J. Abella: The way she was
able to do it in a way

00:22:29.935 --> 00:22:31.968
that we never felt neglected,
that she was always present.

00:22:31.968 --> 00:22:34.601
And, and she made extraordinary
sacrifices for that.

00:22:34.601 --> 00:22:36.335
You know, people look at her
career and think, well,

00:22:36.335 --> 00:22:38.535
you know, it's just a,
a continuous trajectory.

00:22:38.535 --> 00:22:41.501
It's not. She turned things down
so that she could be with us.

00:22:41.501 --> 00:22:43.035
She would actually
not go to things

00:22:43.035 --> 00:22:44.601
that could have been
important for her career,

00:22:44.601 --> 00:22:46.268
so she could just
have dinner with us.

00:22:48.401 --> 00:22:49.935
Rosie: And I kept
my fingers crossed

00:22:49.935 --> 00:22:52.735
that they would be nice people
and that they would

00:22:52.735 --> 00:22:55.567
be happy people
and that I wasn't a barrier

00:22:56.034 --> 00:22:58.135
to their self-fulfillment.

00:22:58.135 --> 00:23:00.101
Z. Abella: They want us to be
kids and they want us to be

00:23:00.101 --> 00:23:01.301
young adults in that household.

00:23:01.301 --> 00:23:03.202
And they didn't want us to be

00:23:03.202 --> 00:23:05.801
'the son' of the President of
the Canadian Jewish Congress,

00:23:05.801 --> 00:23:06.968
and 'the son' of a judge.

00:23:06.968 --> 00:23:09.135
They just wanted us
to be normal kids.

00:23:09.135 --> 00:23:11.835
And to their great
credit, we were.

00:23:11.835 --> 00:23:14.768
J. Abella: There was never
any sense, 'thou shalt,

00:23:14.768 --> 00:23:17.201
you must go forth and make
the world a better place.'

00:23:17.201 --> 00:23:18.668
I would say
it was an expectation

00:23:18.668 --> 00:23:20.035
that underlay everything.

00:23:20.035 --> 00:23:21.668
It came out
pretty much all the time.

00:23:21.668 --> 00:23:23.768
That you didn't think about it
because that's who

00:23:23.768 --> 00:23:25.968
they wanted us to be.
That's who they were.

00:23:25.968 --> 00:23:28.468
And, and that has
forever driven me.

00:23:28.468 --> 00:23:30.701
Rosie: I can say it.
They are wonderful people.

00:23:30.701 --> 00:23:32.867
And they got wonderful
families of their own.

00:23:32.867 --> 00:23:35.001
♪ (jazzy music) ♪

00:23:39.334 --> 00:23:42.434
♪ (soft piano music) ♪

00:23:46.601 --> 00:23:47.968
Anchor:
A Royal Commission report

00:23:47.968 --> 00:23:50.102
told the federal government
it had to increase

00:23:50.102 --> 00:23:52.701
employment opportunities
for women and for minorities.

00:23:52.701 --> 00:23:54.368
Today, the government
said it will.

00:23:54.368 --> 00:23:56.635
Baigent: In the
1980s, she wrote

00:23:56.635 --> 00:23:58.201
the Equality Report

00:23:58.201 --> 00:24:00.468
on Equality In Employment.

00:24:01.068 --> 00:24:04.035
Anchor: Here's an indication
of how sensitive the issue is.

00:24:04.035 --> 00:24:07.268
Judge Abella rejects the term
affirmative action.

00:24:07.268 --> 00:24:10.334
She prefers employment equity.

00:24:10.735 --> 00:24:13.601
We didn't have a definition
of equality in this country

00:24:13.601 --> 00:24:15.902
until the
Royal Commission report.

00:24:15.902 --> 00:24:18.034
And I had to figure out
what equality meant.

00:24:18.034 --> 00:24:19.700
We had not yet decided it.

00:24:21.568 --> 00:24:24.234
Mulroney: Canada was
in many ways, you know,

00:24:24.234 --> 00:24:26.167
pretty Neanderthal.

00:24:26.167 --> 00:24:27.967
And Rosie appeared

00:24:28.735 --> 00:24:32.168
determined to cause us to,
to break out of this.

00:24:32.168 --> 00:24:33.701
Rosie:
If in this ongoing process,

00:24:33.701 --> 00:24:36.168
we are not always sure
what equality means.

00:24:36.168 --> 00:24:38.401
Most of us have a good
understanding of what is fair.

00:24:39.135 --> 00:24:41.601
And what is happening today
in Canada to women,

00:24:41.601 --> 00:24:43.835
native people, disabled persons,

00:24:43.835 --> 00:24:46.368
and many racial and ethnic
minorities, is not fair.

00:24:46.368 --> 00:24:49.002
That was a one year,
$1 million study

00:24:49.002 --> 00:24:52.068
into those four groups,
60% of the population.

00:24:52.068 --> 00:24:54.102
And I had to figure out
what equality meant.

00:24:54.102 --> 00:24:56.269
Condon: She has sort of
understood the particularities

00:24:56.269 --> 00:25:00.102
of women's experience, both
with respect to the work world,

00:25:00.102 --> 00:25:03.768
but also caregiving and other
kinds of family obligations.

00:25:04.135 --> 00:25:06.401
Minow: Take the example
of parental leave.

00:25:06.835 --> 00:25:09.101
You could treat men and women
the same by saying,

00:25:09.101 --> 00:25:10.835
'No one gets parenting leave.'

00:25:11.502 --> 00:25:15.135
But she says, 'No, there's a
reason why parenting leave

00:25:15.135 --> 00:25:17.601
is a special issue for
women more than men.'

00:25:17.601 --> 00:25:20.568
That has to do with society
and how society has structured

00:25:20.935 --> 00:25:22.968
the parenting role.
And therefore,

00:25:22.968 --> 00:25:25.301
the equality solution has to be,

00:25:25.301 --> 00:25:26.967
everybody gets parenting leave.

00:25:28.468 --> 00:25:30.501
Rosie: Which is why, of course,

00:25:30.501 --> 00:25:32.601
I ended up deciding that

00:25:32.601 --> 00:25:35.335
if we're going to define
equality in this country,

00:25:35.335 --> 00:25:38.500
it's not about a level playing
field, because there isn't one.

00:25:40.768 --> 00:25:43.102
And so I came up with the idea

00:25:43.102 --> 00:25:45.768
that you have to think
of equality as acknowledging

00:25:46.102 --> 00:25:48.501
and accommodating
people's differences,

00:25:48.501 --> 00:25:51.067
so they can...
be treated as equals.

00:25:51.067 --> 00:25:52.967
♪ (gentle music) ♪

00:25:56.469 --> 00:25:59.468
You don't build a ramp for
somebody who's in a wheelchair,

00:25:59.468 --> 00:26:01.668
they're not going to be able
to get access.

00:26:01.668 --> 00:26:03.735
But if you treat them
like everybody else,

00:26:03.735 --> 00:26:05.967
treat them the same
as an able-bodied person,

00:26:06.534 --> 00:26:07.835
they don't get a ramp.

00:26:07.835 --> 00:26:10.401
So I think we figured out
equality in this country

00:26:10.401 --> 00:26:11.801
better than any other country.

00:26:11.801 --> 00:26:14.501
Baigent: Concepts like
substantive equality

00:26:14.501 --> 00:26:17.734
and systemic discrimination
came from that report.

00:26:19.035 --> 00:26:21.302
Z. Abella: I remember at the
time how controversial it was,

00:26:21.302 --> 00:26:23.068
and the terrible things
that people were saying.

00:26:23.068 --> 00:26:24.668
Wallace: I have been
reading the report.

00:26:24.668 --> 00:26:26.202
Rather than listening
to Judge Abella,

00:26:26.202 --> 00:26:29.167
and my conclusion is this, this
Royal commission

00:26:29.167 --> 00:26:30.568
was a scandalous waste

00:26:30.568 --> 00:26:31.801
of taxpayer's money.

00:26:31.801 --> 00:26:34.134
Mulroney:
This was quite a, quite a...

00:26:34.134 --> 00:26:36.334
an advanced theory at the time.

00:26:36.701 --> 00:26:40.269
She met resistance
in Caucus and in Cabinet.

00:26:40.269 --> 00:26:42.368
Nystrom: Where are the
goals in this--in her,

00:26:42.368 --> 00:26:44.569
in her statement
for employment equity?

00:26:44.569 --> 00:26:47.635
Where are the targets in her
statement for employment equity?

00:26:48.068 --> 00:26:51.835
Where is the timetable in terms
of imposing employment equity

00:26:51.835 --> 00:26:53.735
in the country,
in this country of Canada?

00:26:53.735 --> 00:26:57.534
Rosie: Universally, all of my,
'my protectors' said,

00:26:57.534 --> 00:27:01.234
'Don't do this. This is,
this is really controversial.'

00:27:01.234 --> 00:27:03.234
Really? Controversial?

00:27:03.234 --> 00:27:05.601
Difficult? Complicated?

00:27:05.601 --> 00:27:08.302
I'll do it. And so I did.

00:27:08.302 --> 00:27:12.468
And it was...a disastrous
reception that I got.

00:27:12.468 --> 00:27:15.067
Hale: The entire analysis
that Judge

00:27:15.735 --> 00:27:18.835
Abella has taken has been
appallingly one-sided.

00:27:19.102 --> 00:27:21.302
Rosie: Every newspaper
in the country from one end

00:27:21.302 --> 00:27:23.901
of the country to the other
said, 'This is terrible.

00:27:24.434 --> 00:27:26.735
This is reverse discrimination.'

00:27:26.735 --> 00:27:31.568
And I used to say, 'No,
it's not reverse discrimination,

00:27:31.568 --> 00:27:33.868
it's reversing discrimination.'

00:27:33.868 --> 00:27:36.601
- Just absolutely
spectacular report

00:27:36.601 --> 00:27:38.067
that transformed the thinking

00:27:38.401 --> 00:27:41.068
about how equality
is treated in the law.

00:27:41.369 --> 00:27:43.269
Rosie: The requirement
that we are recommending

00:27:43.269 --> 00:27:45.601
be imposed on federally
regulated employers

00:27:45.601 --> 00:27:48.468
is that they examine
their workplace practices

00:27:48.468 --> 00:27:50.568
and take steps to
eliminate those barriers,

00:27:50.568 --> 00:27:52.868
which disproportionately
and negatively affect

00:27:52.868 --> 00:27:54.867
members of the four groups.

00:27:56.534 --> 00:27:58.735
If we'd had a merit system
all along,

00:27:59.302 --> 00:28:01.801
a lot of these people
that had been excluded,

00:28:01.801 --> 00:28:03.867
would have been
there in the first place.

00:28:04.868 --> 00:28:07.134
Mulroney: I was very
impressed at what she had done,

00:28:07.601 --> 00:28:10.601
and so I called
in for MacDonald,

00:28:10.601 --> 00:28:12.468
who was Employment Minister
at the time,

00:28:12.468 --> 00:28:15.335
and told Flora, I thought
we should get this done.

00:28:15.335 --> 00:28:18.434
- There's no question that
the case for equality

00:28:18.434 --> 00:28:20.868
has been made certainly
by Judge Abella,

00:28:20.868 --> 00:28:23.968
and it's, it's certainly
accepted by this government.

00:28:23.968 --> 00:28:25.434
Z. Abella:
A Conservative government

00:28:25.434 --> 00:28:28.134
in Canada...adopted that.

00:28:28.468 --> 00:28:30.601
That doesn't happen very often.

00:28:30.601 --> 00:28:32.468
Mulroney: This is not a partisan
issue.

00:28:32.468 --> 00:28:34.334
Fairness for women,
(applause)

00:28:34.334 --> 00:28:35.967
is something that concerns
us all.

00:28:35.967 --> 00:28:38.168
(applause)

00:28:38.168 --> 00:28:40.434
Clark: She is a very
appropriate expression

00:28:40.434 --> 00:28:41.834
of what equality means.

00:28:42.268 --> 00:28:44.168
She doesn't only fight for it,

00:28:44.168 --> 00:28:46.701
she represents
what at its best it can be.

00:28:46.701 --> 00:28:49.834
- And it's influenced Equality
Law all over the world.

00:28:52.935 --> 00:28:55.102
Rosie: But am I proud
of the role I've played

00:28:55.102 --> 00:28:56.601
in equality rights
in this country?

00:28:56.601 --> 00:28:57.601
Oh, yes!

00:29:02.434 --> 00:29:04.735
Z. Abella: You could make
a legitimate argument

00:29:04.735 --> 00:29:06.835
that for at least
a couple of decades,

00:29:06.835 --> 00:29:08.601
there was an open question on

00:29:08.601 --> 00:29:10.668
who was more well-known
than the other?

00:29:10.668 --> 00:29:12.601
In certain neighborhoods
in Toronto,

00:29:12.601 --> 00:29:14.334
he was certainly more
high-profile than she was.

00:29:20.735 --> 00:29:22.768
- Today, we'll chat with
Professor Irving Abella,

00:29:22.768 --> 00:29:26.167
the co-author of the recent
bestseller 'None Is too Many.'

00:29:26.902 --> 00:29:29.368
Rosie: Canada, as you know,
from 'None Is Too Many',

00:29:29.368 --> 00:29:32.468
was not allowing in Jews
until 1948.

00:29:33.369 --> 00:29:35.868
Irving: This was the most
difficult book that I ever did.

00:29:36.335 --> 00:29:38.701
There were times
when we sat in the archives,

00:29:38.701 --> 00:29:40.735
I was crying in frustration.

00:29:40.735 --> 00:29:42.401
On the other hand, we felt that

00:29:42.401 --> 00:29:44.668
we had an entire
generation of people,

00:29:44.668 --> 00:29:46.902
looking over our shoulders
as we were writing.

00:29:46.902 --> 00:29:48.434
We had their story to tell.

00:29:51.268 --> 00:29:54.101
Rosie: I'm in awe of his

00:29:54.101 --> 00:29:57.668
dignified, courageous stoicism,

00:29:57.668 --> 00:29:59.834
which is wrapped in
the best brain I've ever met.

00:30:01.002 --> 00:30:03.368
I don't write a
lecture or a speech

00:30:03.368 --> 00:30:06.668
that I don't run
the ideas past him.

00:30:06.968 --> 00:30:10.468
When I have a case, I will
discuss it with him often,

00:30:10.868 --> 00:30:12.735
especially if I'm
about to do something

00:30:12.735 --> 00:30:14.668
that I know is going
to get me into trouble.

00:30:14.668 --> 00:30:17.301
And he will almost always

00:30:17.301 --> 00:30:19.234
weigh in on the side of

00:30:19.701 --> 00:30:21.368
creative pragmatism.

00:30:22.368 --> 00:30:24.768
I was at a drugstore and I said,

00:30:24.768 --> 00:30:27.235
I'm here to pick up the
medication for Irving Abella

00:30:27.235 --> 00:30:30.301
and a woman who must have
been about 60 years old

00:30:30.301 --> 00:30:31.835
came up to me and said,

00:30:31.835 --> 00:30:33.668
'The Irving Abella?'

00:30:33.668 --> 00:30:38.202
And I said, 'I don-- who,
who do you-- I think so?

00:30:38.202 --> 00:30:39.868
And she said, 'The man who
wrote the book?

00:30:39.868 --> 00:30:41.501
My mother has that book.

00:30:41.501 --> 00:30:44.101
Oh, my God, he is amazing!

00:30:44.101 --> 00:30:45.534
You know him?'

00:30:45.534 --> 00:30:47.935
I said, 'Yes, I'm his wife.'

00:30:47.935 --> 00:30:50.102
'Wow. Well, tell him
I think he's great.'

00:30:50.102 --> 00:30:53.368
And I'm thinking, 'she hasn't
got a clue who I am.'

00:30:54.701 --> 00:30:56.268
Itchy, how are you feeling?

00:30:56.268 --> 00:30:57.935
Irving: (off-camera)
Great.

00:30:57.935 --> 00:30:59.767
I like the part
about me especially.

00:30:59.767 --> 00:31:01.568
(laughter)

00:31:01.568 --> 00:31:03.901
Rosie: See? Ah!
Irving: (talking off-camera)

00:31:03.901 --> 00:31:04.967
Rosie: (sighs)

00:31:06.268 --> 00:31:09.601
♪ (stately music) ♪

00:31:09.601 --> 00:31:11.167
Anchor: Live from Ottawa.

00:31:11.735 --> 00:31:13.301
Encounter 88.

00:31:14.601 --> 00:31:17.101
An exchange of views by the
leaders of Canada's

00:31:17.101 --> 00:31:19.135
three major political parties

00:31:19.135 --> 00:31:20.867
on the issues of the
Federal Election.

00:31:21.801 --> 00:31:24.568
Rosie: Tonight, the leaders of
Canada's three political parties

00:31:24.568 --> 00:31:26.835
will have an opportunity
to confront one another,

00:31:26.835 --> 00:31:30.101
exchange views and share their
vision with you.

00:31:30.434 --> 00:31:31.768
Rosie: Why did they pick me?

00:31:31.768 --> 00:31:34.568
Probably for the same reason I
got picked for a lot of things

00:31:34.568 --> 00:31:35.934
in the '70s and '80s.

00:31:36.334 --> 00:31:37.967
We've never had a woman yet.

00:31:38.968 --> 00:31:41.268
And they always knew if they
called me to do something,

00:31:41.268 --> 00:31:42.668
I would always say yes.

00:31:42.668 --> 00:31:44.235
Mulroney:
This is not an easy thing,

00:31:44.235 --> 00:31:48.002
to handle Turner, Mulroney and
Broadbent in a major debate

00:31:48.002 --> 00:31:50.435
that was going to shape
the future of Canada.

00:31:50.435 --> 00:31:52.801
Rosie: And I couldn't walk.
My knees were shaking.

00:31:52.801 --> 00:31:54.768
The participants have agreed
that the moderator

00:31:54.768 --> 00:31:56.968
can intervene,
where appropriate,

00:31:56.968 --> 00:31:59.334
to enforce the rules
as fairly as possible.

00:31:59.935 --> 00:32:02.334
I know there are a lot of
caveats in that explanation,

00:32:02.334 --> 00:32:04.134
but I think you can't
expect anything else

00:32:04.134 --> 00:32:05.668
from a moderator who's a lawyer.

00:32:05.668 --> 00:32:08.868
But what I do remember
was having to cut off

00:32:08.868 --> 00:32:11.168
Brian Mulroney,
the Prime Minister at the time.

00:32:11.168 --> 00:32:12.369
Mulroney: It's
something to be proud of

00:32:12.369 --> 00:32:14.369
and you should not involve...
Rosie: Mr. Mulroney,

00:32:14.369 --> 00:32:16.835
...battered women with a
question of patronage.
R. Abella: I'm sorry to
interrupt, Mr. Mulroney.

00:32:16.835 --> 00:32:18.068
It would be a lot easier

00:32:18.068 --> 00:32:19.635
if we could hear
one of you at a time.

00:32:19.635 --> 00:32:22.302
And then I let them go
during the Free Trade debate.

00:32:22.302 --> 00:32:24.401
This was something
the whole country was watching.

00:32:24.401 --> 00:32:26.668
(heated cross-talking)

00:32:26.668 --> 00:32:28.369
(heated cross-talking)
Rosie: Gentlemen--

00:32:28.369 --> 00:32:31.669
(heated cross-talking)
Excuse me, gentlemen, it's
not fair to either position.

00:32:31.669 --> 00:32:33.335
(heated cross-talking)
Gentlemen,
I'm going to ask you, please,

00:32:33.335 --> 00:32:35.534
(heated cross-talking)
we can't hear either
one of you when you're both--

00:32:35.534 --> 00:32:39.134
And I called my mother
and I said, 'How did it go?'

00:32:40.368 --> 00:32:41.700
And she said,

00:32:42.968 --> 00:32:44.835
'You cut off the
Prime Minister.'

00:32:44.835 --> 00:32:46.167
Mulroney:
And I think that the federal--

00:32:46.167 --> 00:32:47.801
Rosie: Prime Minister Mulroney--

00:32:47.801 --> 00:32:49.235
Thank you Mr. Mulroney.

00:32:49.235 --> 00:32:51.202
Mr. Mulroney, I'm going to ask
you to wind up now, please,

00:32:51.202 --> 00:32:53.401
so I can give Mr. Broadbent
an opportunity to reply.
Mulroney: I'm sorry.

00:32:53.401 --> 00:32:56.001
Rosie: And I remember
being heart sick,

00:32:56.001 --> 00:32:58.701
that my mother was worried

00:32:58.701 --> 00:33:02.101
about what was going to
happen to me, because I cut off

00:33:02.701 --> 00:33:05.135
the Prime Minister in a debate.

00:33:05.135 --> 00:33:08.268
Mulroney: I thought she did it
with aplomb and certainty

00:33:08.902 --> 00:33:11.401
and good humor.
And I kept my eye on her.

00:33:11.401 --> 00:33:14.902
Rosie: 1992, Brian Mulroney
appointed me

00:33:14.902 --> 00:33:16.067
to the Court of Appeal.

00:33:16.067 --> 00:33:18.568
♪ (stately music) ♪

00:33:24.534 --> 00:33:27.202
And I admired that,
because the Court of Appeal

00:33:27.202 --> 00:33:30.968
was the most distinguished
court in the country.

00:33:30.968 --> 00:33:33.269
Mulroney: As you know,
all appointments

00:33:33.269 --> 00:33:36.435
to the Courts of Appeal are made
directly by the Prime Minister.

00:33:36.435 --> 00:33:40.202
So when it came time to elevate
Rosie to the Court of Appeal,

00:33:40.202 --> 00:33:43.534
I was convinced that she was
the best person for the job.

00:33:44.035 --> 00:33:46.767
And that was it. Rosie went
to the Court of Appeal.

00:33:51.635 --> 00:33:54.668
J. Abella: My mother was
of a different world

00:33:54.668 --> 00:33:56.402
and she was
pro-human rights person,

00:33:56.402 --> 00:33:59.202
she was a pro-equality person,
she believed in inclusion.

00:33:59.202 --> 00:34:01.735
She believed in equality
of opportunity.

00:34:01.735 --> 00:34:03.834
And, and, yes, there was
a lot of criticism.

00:34:04.534 --> 00:34:06.469
Mulroney: There are
a lot of smug Canadians,

00:34:06.469 --> 00:34:09.901
who say, 'we're a gentle,
thoughtful, generous people.'

00:34:10.268 --> 00:34:11.501
Not always.

00:34:11.501 --> 00:34:13.600
You know, they're,
we've got our own

00:34:14.167 --> 00:34:16.801
bunch of morons in the country

00:34:17.235 --> 00:34:19.501
and they, they surface
at times like this.

00:34:19.968 --> 00:34:22.035
And when Rosie was appointed,

00:34:22.035 --> 00:34:23.768
I got a lot of
correspondence about it

00:34:23.768 --> 00:34:25.868
from some of the haters,
you know,

00:34:25.868 --> 00:34:27.568
and they didn't like the idea.

00:34:27.568 --> 00:34:30.334
They didn't like her
ideological bent.

00:34:30.334 --> 00:34:31.434
They didn't like her career,

00:34:32.135 --> 00:34:34.701
and they didn't like the fact
that she was a woman.

00:34:34.701 --> 00:34:37.002
And they didn't like the fact
that she was Jewish.

00:34:37.002 --> 00:34:38.801
Irving: I'll tell
you how bad it was.

00:34:38.801 --> 00:34:42.468
Our son Zachary would
get up in the morning

00:34:42.468 --> 00:34:44.768
when the papers were delivered
before Rosie got up,

00:34:45.335 --> 00:34:48.534
and he would go through them
quickly to see if anybody had

00:34:48.534 --> 00:34:50.534
anything to say about his mother

00:34:50.534 --> 00:34:52.935
that was unfair and critical,

00:34:52.935 --> 00:34:55.901
and removed them so that
when Rosie read the paper,

00:34:56.534 --> 00:34:58.101
there were articles missing.

00:34:59.135 --> 00:35:01.835
Z. Abella: She is brilliant
and people know that now,

00:35:01.835 --> 00:35:04.601
and they knew that then. But
they were people who, I guess,

00:35:04.601 --> 00:35:07.035
for whatever reason,
wanted to act like

00:35:07.035 --> 00:35:10.068
this intellectual heavyweight
was a social climber.

00:35:10.068 --> 00:35:12.368
And that hurt all of us,
because it wasn't true.

00:35:13.434 --> 00:35:15.835
Mulroney:
It was more ideological.

00:35:15.835 --> 00:35:18.035
You know, look, we're a
Conservative Government,

00:35:18.035 --> 00:35:20.434
Prime Minister.
What are we doing appointing

00:35:20.434 --> 00:35:24.534
a notorious leftist to,
to an important position

00:35:24.902 --> 00:35:27.369
in the Canadian judiciary?

00:35:27.369 --> 00:35:30.568
And I said, well, she doesn't
look like a leftist to me.

00:35:31.202 --> 00:35:33.568
She looks like a
talented, young woman

00:35:33.568 --> 00:35:35.502
who's made a career in the law.

00:35:35.502 --> 00:35:38.168
And I know her for her good
judgment and her good humor.

00:35:38.168 --> 00:35:40.668
And what the hell more
do you want from,

00:35:40.668 --> 00:35:42.867
from a, from a Judge?

00:35:42.867 --> 00:35:44.701
(laughs)

00:35:44.701 --> 00:35:48.401
- She demonstrated a capacity
to deal with difficult

00:35:48.401 --> 00:35:51.902
legal issues, to be able
to write decisions

00:35:51.902 --> 00:35:54.701
which earned
the support

00:35:54.701 --> 00:35:56.167
of her colleagues
on the court.

00:35:56.601 --> 00:35:59.067
Rosie: I just never,
never thought about

00:35:59.768 --> 00:36:02.868
writing letters or
criticizing people publicly.

00:36:02.868 --> 00:36:04.269
To this day, I haven't.

00:36:04.269 --> 00:36:07.967
Because those reviews,
they were entitled to have.

00:36:07.967 --> 00:36:11.268
♪ (soft piano music) ♪

00:36:15.668 --> 00:36:18.168
Beaucage: I knew that
she had written

00:36:18.168 --> 00:36:20.501
the unanimous court
decision in Rosenberg,

00:36:20.501 --> 00:36:22.735
that allowed same-sex couples
to be able to

00:36:22.735 --> 00:36:24.501
give their pensions
to their spouse.

00:36:29.469 --> 00:36:32.301
Rosie: When I wrote a decision
in a case called Rosenberg,

00:36:32.968 --> 00:36:36.668
which said that the provisions
of the Income Tax Act,

00:36:36.668 --> 00:36:39.368
which only allowed you
to leave pension benefits

00:36:39.368 --> 00:36:41.701
to 'opposite sex' spouses,

00:36:42.502 --> 00:36:45.767
I wrote the decision and
read in the words 'or same sex'.

00:36:46.301 --> 00:36:48.434
- We got pension rights

00:36:48.868 --> 00:36:51.167
recognized as a couple.

00:36:51.768 --> 00:36:54.134
It was everything for us.

00:36:55.269 --> 00:36:57.168
- This is another way
in which human rights

00:36:57.168 --> 00:36:59.568
need to be validated
and to be advanced.

00:36:59.568 --> 00:37:01.468
The way in which law
should recognize

00:37:01.468 --> 00:37:04.301
the equality of people
based on their sexuality.

00:37:04.301 --> 00:37:05.935
Rosie:
And that's what judges can do

00:37:05.935 --> 00:37:07.801
in the protection of rights.

00:37:07.801 --> 00:37:11.035
They can take chances
with public opinion.

00:37:11.035 --> 00:37:14.334
In fact, they are obliged to
take chances with public opinion

00:37:14.701 --> 00:37:19.334
if they think that's the right
way to go constitutionally.

00:37:19.668 --> 00:37:23.534
Now, are there people who felt
differently? Yes, of course!

00:37:23.534 --> 00:37:25.134
But there's only
one way to measure

00:37:25.134 --> 00:37:26.867
whether that decision was right.

00:37:27.301 --> 00:37:28.533
And that was time.

00:37:35.868 --> 00:37:37.835
P. Mansbridge: To Ottawa now,
on the death of a man

00:37:37.835 --> 00:37:39.368
the Prime Minister
described today,

00:37:39.368 --> 00:37:41.501
as one of the finest jurists
in the country.

00:37:41.902 --> 00:37:45.002
Supreme Court Justice
John Sopinka died suddenly

00:37:45.002 --> 00:37:47.034
this morning,
after a short illness.

00:37:47.034 --> 00:37:48.700
He was 64 years old.

00:37:50.268 --> 00:37:52.368
Rosie: John Sopinka died

00:37:53.302 --> 00:37:56.201
and suddenly there was a vacancy
no one had expected

00:37:56.201 --> 00:37:57.701
on the Supreme Court of Canada.

00:37:57.701 --> 00:38:02.001
And the candidacies
were expected to be

00:38:02.001 --> 00:38:04.369
Court of Appeal Judges.

00:38:04.369 --> 00:38:07.635
I mean, that was the natural
farm team for appointments

00:38:07.635 --> 00:38:10.201
from Ontario to
the Supreme Court of Canada.

00:38:12.302 --> 00:38:15.635
I would say it was
a period of hyper-activity

00:38:15.635 --> 00:38:18.268
on the part of people
who were promoting particular

00:38:19.068 --> 00:38:20.968
candidates
for the Supreme Court.

00:38:20.968 --> 00:38:22.700
And it was an awkward time.

00:38:23.468 --> 00:38:26.134
And I was somebody
whose name was

00:38:26.134 --> 00:38:28.935
um...out there and I,

00:38:28.935 --> 00:38:32.701
I was a lawyer and a judge
who was shifting borders.

00:38:33.402 --> 00:38:37.202
All the legal boundaries in
so many areas were changing.

00:38:37.202 --> 00:38:41.001
But when you change boundaries,
you change expectations.

00:38:41.001 --> 00:38:42.401
And when you change

00:38:42.401 --> 00:38:45.401
expectations,
some people are happy

00:38:45.868 --> 00:38:47.801
because they've now
been included,

00:38:47.801 --> 00:38:50.102
and some people
are unhappy because

00:38:50.102 --> 00:38:52.735
more people have been included
in something they thought

00:38:52.735 --> 00:38:54.634
they were
exclusively entitled to.

00:38:56.068 --> 00:38:58.902
So, being known as somebody
who changed boundaries

00:38:58.902 --> 00:39:00.635
was not an application form for,

00:39:00.635 --> 00:39:02.568
for a promotion
to the Supreme Court of Canada.

00:39:07.202 --> 00:39:09.767
What I read in the press was,
'She doesn't have a chance.

00:39:10.368 --> 00:39:12.968
She's too controversial.'

00:39:12.968 --> 00:39:14.935
Z. Abella: There were stuff
that was said about her

00:39:14.935 --> 00:39:18.002
that simply was
not true or fair.

00:39:18.002 --> 00:39:19.835
J. Abella:
Here she was being mooted

00:39:19.835 --> 00:39:21.701
for something
that she was not seeking,

00:39:21.701 --> 00:39:23.801
and suddenly people
were attacking her for it.

00:39:24.135 --> 00:39:25.468
Z. Abella: They thought
that she had friends

00:39:25.468 --> 00:39:28.835
in the right circles.
She was very social,

00:39:28.835 --> 00:39:32.134
but she lacked maybe the
intellectual rigor

00:39:32.134 --> 00:39:33.534
to be on the Supreme Court.

00:39:33.534 --> 00:39:36.335
Rosie: Was only painful,
I guess, when it was public,

00:39:36.335 --> 00:39:38.834
when it hit the press.
But again, what can you say?

00:39:40.002 --> 00:39:42.501
It's fair to say that I was one
of the first people

00:39:42.501 --> 00:39:44.135
to call Ian Binnie,

00:39:44.135 --> 00:39:48.934
who is an outstanding lawyer
and judge and highly qualified.

00:39:49.601 --> 00:39:52.935
And I was fearlessly
doing all of the things

00:39:52.935 --> 00:39:55.102
that I'd done in my
whole legal career,

00:39:55.102 --> 00:39:58.168
because it never even
occurred to me to be careful

00:39:58.168 --> 00:40:00.801
and monitor my
activities in a way

00:40:00.801 --> 00:40:02.968
that would tailor them
to the possibility

00:40:02.968 --> 00:40:04.334
of going to the Supreme Court.

00:40:05.635 --> 00:40:09.502
♪ (jazzy music) ♪

00:40:09.502 --> 00:40:13.635
Atwood: So she's a collector of
very bright, peculiar objects.

00:40:13.635 --> 00:40:16.601
Very unusual,
both in wardrobe choices

00:40:16.601 --> 00:40:18.668
and in accoutrements.

00:40:19.035 --> 00:40:21.768
Rosie: We're in the living room
of the house we've occupied,

00:40:21.768 --> 00:40:24.202
since we bought it in 1971.

00:40:24.202 --> 00:40:27.635
And all of these things
that we've collected,

00:40:27.635 --> 00:40:29.534
we used to buy each other art.

00:40:29.534 --> 00:40:30.968
So what you see on the walls

00:40:30.968 --> 00:40:33.868
are part of
our anniversary presents.

00:40:33.868 --> 00:40:35.534
- And if anybody's
been into their home,

00:40:35.534 --> 00:40:37.201
you'll know, you walk into like

00:40:37.201 --> 00:40:39.002
an Alice in Wonderland place.

00:40:39.002 --> 00:40:41.668
J. Abella: It is a reflection
of my mother's personality.

00:40:41.668 --> 00:40:43.335
She likes things
that make her happy.

00:40:43.335 --> 00:40:45.935
And the collection of art
and the colors make her happy.

00:40:45.935 --> 00:40:47.334
Rosie: I don't
think you would say

00:40:47.334 --> 00:40:49.101
that there is a style of art.

00:40:49.701 --> 00:40:52.334
But it's all sculptures,

00:40:52.334 --> 00:40:54.334
paintings, artifacts

00:40:54.334 --> 00:40:56.468
that are fun, that are creative,

00:40:56.468 --> 00:40:57.800
in a very different way.

00:41:00.102 --> 00:41:01.801
Gray: You know,
she has pop tastes,

00:41:01.801 --> 00:41:04.502
and some of the pieces that she
has actually are quite lovely,

00:41:04.502 --> 00:41:07.435
but you'd never know it, given
the junk they're surrounded by.

00:41:07.435 --> 00:41:09.867
J. Abella: A FedEx person once
asked if this house was a store.

00:41:10.201 --> 00:41:12.002
So, people loved it.

00:41:12.002 --> 00:41:14.601
- But I had such a blast
in that home, I really did.

00:41:14.601 --> 00:41:17.035
She knows pretty well every
Broadway song that I know,

00:41:17.035 --> 00:41:18.701
but she sings it
much better than I do.

00:41:18.701 --> 00:41:20.701
Rosie: Right now, there
is no music in the room

00:41:20.701 --> 00:41:22.568
because you made me turn it off.

00:41:22.568 --> 00:41:24.868
But there is always
music in a room

00:41:24.868 --> 00:41:27.268
because my brain looks for it.

00:41:27.268 --> 00:41:28.668
Atwood: She loves a party.

00:41:28.668 --> 00:41:30.601
She loves musical comedies.

00:41:30.601 --> 00:41:33.501
So lights, camera, action.
That would be Rosie.

00:41:33.501 --> 00:41:35.800
Rosie: When I finished
high school, as a gift,

00:41:36.568 --> 00:41:39.701
my parents let me go to
New York with a girlfriend,

00:41:39.701 --> 00:41:41.468
and we got tickets to Funny Girl

00:41:41.468 --> 00:41:43.235
because I knew all the songs.

00:41:43.235 --> 00:41:45.534
And they were
funny songs and they were

00:41:45.534 --> 00:41:47.334
romantic songs,
so I became a fan.

00:41:47.868 --> 00:41:51.268
That was food for me,
having music in my head

00:41:51.268 --> 00:41:52.868
to get me through life.

00:41:52.868 --> 00:41:55.867
♪ (smooth jazz music) ♪

00:42:00.868 --> 00:42:02.701
Irving: So we've never had a

00:42:02.701 --> 00:42:04.601
really enjoyable meal at home

00:42:04.601 --> 00:42:07.002
that hasn't been ordered in.
Rosie: (laughs)

00:42:07.002 --> 00:42:09.002
Irving: And Rosie, and--
Rosie: I'm sorry.

00:42:09.002 --> 00:42:10.867
Atwood: Not a tippity-top cook.

00:42:11.301 --> 00:42:13.468
She once took a
gourmet cooking class

00:42:13.468 --> 00:42:15.201
and her family complained.

00:42:15.201 --> 00:42:16.668
(laughs)

00:42:16.668 --> 00:42:20.002
Rosie: Look at these
homemade pastries

00:42:20.002 --> 00:42:22.334
that I got at a
neighborhood bakery.

00:42:22.334 --> 00:42:24.401
They're homemade, but not by me.

00:42:24.401 --> 00:42:26.167
Cooking, I tried because

00:42:26.167 --> 00:42:27.967
my family needed to eat.

00:42:28.434 --> 00:42:30.268
Irving: If cooking
figured in the family,

00:42:30.268 --> 00:42:31.734
I would have been
gone on the first day.

00:42:32.468 --> 00:42:35.401
Rosie tried to make a
cheese omelet without eggs.

00:42:35.801 --> 00:42:37.902
Nobody told her you needed
eggs in a cheese omelet.

00:42:38.302 --> 00:42:42.067
So she put the cheese in and
waited for the omelet to form.

00:42:42.067 --> 00:42:43.901
Atwood: (laughs)

00:42:43.901 --> 00:42:45.601
Can't we have pizza?

00:42:45.601 --> 00:42:48.301
Irving: So we have more
recipe books in this house

00:42:48.301 --> 00:42:49.767
than we've ever had meals.

00:42:49.767 --> 00:42:52.568
(laughter)

00:42:52.568 --> 00:42:54.667
Sometimes I feel like
eating the recipe book.

00:43:03.735 --> 00:43:07.901
♪ (dramatic instrumental
music) ♪

00:43:18.402 --> 00:43:21.368
Martin: The Supreme Court
reflects in the supreme way,

00:43:21.368 --> 00:43:23.301
what the laws are.

00:43:24.068 --> 00:43:28.167
But the interpretation of those
laws has a very important

00:43:29.135 --> 00:43:32.067
basis in what your
perspectives are,

00:43:32.067 --> 00:43:33.500
that society needs.

00:43:35.835 --> 00:43:38.701
Karakatsanis:
We are the court of last resort.

00:43:38.701 --> 00:43:41.667
So we hear appeals
from all courts in Canada.

00:43:42.234 --> 00:43:45.035
And, try to bring some clarity

00:43:45.035 --> 00:43:47.701
and resolve legal issues that

00:43:47.701 --> 00:43:50.501
have huge impact
on every aspect of life.

00:43:53.135 --> 00:43:55.068
Martin: When you're dealing
with the Supreme Court,

00:43:55.068 --> 00:43:57.201
what you are looking for
is somebody

00:43:57.201 --> 00:43:59.501
who is a respected jurist.

00:43:59.501 --> 00:44:02.368
Somebody who understands
the importance of the law.

00:44:02.701 --> 00:44:05.201
Somebody who understands
the importance of the way

00:44:05.201 --> 00:44:07.302
in which laws are introduced.

00:44:07.302 --> 00:44:09.768
I would expect that
very much out of somebody

00:44:09.768 --> 00:44:12.134
who is appointed to the,
to the bench.

00:44:14.401 --> 00:44:16.701
Rosie: The process
that was in place then was,

00:44:16.701 --> 00:44:19.035
you didn't know if
your name was even in play.

00:44:19.035 --> 00:44:21.269
All I knew was
what the press said.

00:44:21.269 --> 00:44:24.235
I had no contact with
anybody in government,

00:44:24.235 --> 00:44:26.667
from the minute
the vacancies started.

00:44:28.135 --> 00:44:31.468
I. Cotler: Bonjour, I am pleased
to share with you

00:44:31.468 --> 00:44:34.767
what I would regard as a
historic moment.

00:44:35.434 --> 00:44:38.368
Rosie: So people like me,
never say one day

00:44:38.368 --> 00:44:40.202
I want to be a
Supreme Court judge

00:44:40.202 --> 00:44:43.668
or a Court of Appeal judge,
because we know that we aren't

00:44:43.668 --> 00:44:46.334
the kind of people who,
who can automatically

00:44:47.102 --> 00:44:50.034
pick up a phone and think
that that's going to happen.

00:44:50.534 --> 00:44:53.501
So if it doesn't happen,
that's closer to the narrative

00:44:53.501 --> 00:44:55.034
that we grow up feeling.

00:44:55.468 --> 00:44:57.568
Cotler: I'm delighted to
announce

00:44:57.568 --> 00:45:00.735
two outstanding nominees

00:45:00.735 --> 00:45:03.301
to the Supreme Court of Canada.

00:45:03.301 --> 00:45:05.668
Justice Rosie Abella.

00:45:06.002 --> 00:45:08.167
Martin: Irwin Cotler
was the one that came to me

00:45:08.501 --> 00:45:10.568
and he said, 'This is
what I would like to do.'

00:45:10.868 --> 00:45:12.935
Now, Irwin Cotler
was universally

00:45:12.935 --> 00:45:14.668
respected across the country,

00:45:14.668 --> 00:45:16.801
and when he recommended Rosie,

00:45:16.801 --> 00:45:18.801
obviously that gave it
a lot of weight.

00:45:18.801 --> 00:45:22.035
- But while legal scholars
are gushing over the nominees,

00:45:22.035 --> 00:45:24.269
social conservatives
are cringing,

00:45:24.269 --> 00:45:26.668
particularly with the
Supreme Court set to hear

00:45:26.668 --> 00:45:30.469
a controversial reference
on same-sex marriage this fall.

00:45:30.469 --> 00:45:33.068
Landolt: Both of the women are
known as hard-line feminists.

00:45:33.502 --> 00:45:37.301
It certainly seals the fate
of the same-sex marriage case.

00:45:37.301 --> 00:45:39.067
- The easiest way to carry on a

00:45:39.067 --> 00:45:41.868
debate is to invent a straw man.

00:45:41.868 --> 00:45:45.600
The fake stick picture of
what your opponent believes,

00:45:46.134 --> 00:45:48.335
and then set it on fire and say,

00:45:48.335 --> 00:45:50.202
'How could you possibly
believe such a thing?'

00:45:50.202 --> 00:45:53.701
Toews: Paul Martin was looking
for a certain kind of a judge

00:45:53.701 --> 00:45:56.468
in order to advance his,
his agenda.

00:45:56.468 --> 00:45:58.601
Rosie: The journalists
were very critical

00:45:58.601 --> 00:46:00.067
of this possibility.

00:46:00.067 --> 00:46:02.635
That took me aback because

00:46:02.635 --> 00:46:04.269
I'd never seen it before.

00:46:04.269 --> 00:46:06.601
And to this day,
I don't think I've ever seen

00:46:06.601 --> 00:46:08.568
a critical reaction
to an appointment

00:46:08.568 --> 00:46:11.335
to the Supreme Court of Canada
except mine.

00:46:11.569 --> 00:46:15.668
Marshall: One of the things that
I admire about Justice Abella,

00:46:15.668 --> 00:46:18.834
is that she understands
that if you are a judge

00:46:18.834 --> 00:46:20.735
in a democracy,

00:46:20.735 --> 00:46:24.202
you will be criticized.

00:46:24.202 --> 00:46:26.301
B. Mulroney: So I wasn't
surprised when I saw some of it.

00:46:26.701 --> 00:46:29.368
I called her,
told her to hang in there.

00:46:29.368 --> 00:46:31.401
That, you know,
this too shall pass.

00:46:31.768 --> 00:46:34.334
Rosie: But I can't tell
you that it didn't hurt.

00:46:35.168 --> 00:46:38.034
But I can also tell you
that it didn't keep me down.

00:46:38.034 --> 00:46:39.533
♪ (cheery music) ♪

00:46:40.534 --> 00:46:42.335
Anchor: This is CBC News Today,

00:46:42.335 --> 00:46:44.902
and the Supreme Court of Canada
is back in session

00:46:44.902 --> 00:46:47.401
and it's already completed
its first order of business.

00:46:47.868 --> 00:46:50.601
Justices Louise Charron
and Rosalie Abella

00:46:50.601 --> 00:46:52.601
were formally sworn
in this morning.

00:46:52.601 --> 00:46:55.201
Rosie: Do solemnly and
sincerely promise and swear

00:46:55.201 --> 00:46:57.068
that I will duly and faithfully,

00:46:57.068 --> 00:46:59.034
and to the best of my
skill and knowledge,

00:47:03.401 --> 00:47:07.935
execute the powers
and trust placed in me

00:47:07.935 --> 00:47:10.201
as one of the judges of
the Supreme Court of Canada,

00:47:10.201 --> 00:47:11.568
so help me God.

00:47:11.568 --> 00:47:13.768
- For me, as for so many other

00:47:13.768 --> 00:47:15.600
legal academics in Canada,

00:47:16.067 --> 00:47:18.302
when you heard Rosie's name,

00:47:18.302 --> 00:47:22.569
there was almost an immediate
sense of the rightness

00:47:22.569 --> 00:47:25.601
that Rosie Abella should be
on the Supreme Court of Canada.

00:47:25.601 --> 00:47:26.934
Mulroney:
When Paul Martin came in,

00:47:28.167 --> 00:47:30.234
who is a great friend of mine

00:47:30.234 --> 00:47:32.902
and ideologically

00:47:32.902 --> 00:47:35.835
compatible with me
and with Rosie,

00:47:35.835 --> 00:47:38.334
I was, I was delighted
when he appointed her.

00:47:38.334 --> 00:47:40.601
Martin: We appointed
somebody of substance,

00:47:40.601 --> 00:47:44.401
who is basically going to
drive two very strong

00:47:44.401 --> 00:47:46.101
social objectives.

00:47:47.735 --> 00:47:51.601
- The message of Rosie Abella
being named as the first

00:47:51.601 --> 00:47:54.534
female Jewish judge
in this country,

00:47:54.534 --> 00:47:56.401
was liberating for Jews.

00:47:56.401 --> 00:47:57.768
I mean, it was like,

00:47:57.768 --> 00:48:00.534
holy mackerel,
we kind of, now we've made it!

00:48:01.102 --> 00:48:04.800
- Abella spoke of her journey as
a child of Holocaust survivors.

00:48:05.368 --> 00:48:06.734
Rosie: A journey...

00:48:13.369 --> 00:48:16.068
...that started in a displaced
persons camp in Germany,

00:48:16.068 --> 00:48:18.401
ended in the
Supreme Court of Canada.

00:48:18.401 --> 00:48:20.001
Martin: I believe,

00:48:20.268 --> 00:48:22.800
asking, 'Why did you
appoint a woman?'

00:48:23.301 --> 00:48:24.801
'Was there something
behind that?'

00:48:24.801 --> 00:48:26.668
That had nothing to do with it?

00:48:26.668 --> 00:48:29.134
We appointed Rosie Abella.

00:48:32.568 --> 00:48:34.235
P. Mansbridge: Tomorrow the
Supreme Court of Canada

00:48:34.235 --> 00:48:37.501
considers something this country
has grappled with for months:

00:48:37.501 --> 00:48:39.168
same-sex marriage.

00:48:39.168 --> 00:48:41.268
Rosie: I wrote a
gay rights judgment.

00:48:41.268 --> 00:48:42.801
That was the
first decision I wrote

00:48:42.801 --> 00:48:44.401
after all of that criticism.

00:48:44.401 --> 00:48:46.501
I wasn't going to change
in order to be able to

00:48:46.501 --> 00:48:48.569
accommodate those views
because they weren't mine.

00:48:48.569 --> 00:48:51.035
Greenberg: Well, maybe it wasn't
the views that they wanted.

00:48:51.035 --> 00:48:53.368
Everybody has the right
to their own opinion.

00:48:53.801 --> 00:48:56.635
And she has a certain
point of view.

00:48:56.635 --> 00:48:58.368
I am assuming that
there were people

00:48:58.368 --> 00:49:00.268
that were critical
of her decisions.

00:49:00.268 --> 00:49:03.935
- You know, there
were efforts by

00:49:03.935 --> 00:49:06.234
people who were
opposed to us

00:49:06.234 --> 00:49:08.102
to say, well,

00:49:08.102 --> 00:49:10.902
you can have something
short of marriage.

00:49:10.902 --> 00:49:13.934
Rosie: Is it your position
that the definition of marriage

00:49:14.601 --> 00:49:15.935
cannot be changed?

00:49:15.935 --> 00:49:17.768
- That is the position of
Alberta, Milady,

00:49:17.768 --> 00:49:19.768
within the natural
limits of that term.

00:49:19.768 --> 00:49:22.835
Rosie: What does--and tell me
what you mean by natural limits?

00:49:22.835 --> 00:49:24.601
I knew it was going
to be controversial.

00:49:24.601 --> 00:49:26.468
It was a decision that

00:49:26.468 --> 00:49:30.269
struck down as unconstitutional
on the grounds

00:49:30.269 --> 00:49:33.501
that it violated protection
for sexual orientation.

00:49:33.501 --> 00:49:35.735
But it got played in the press,

00:49:35.735 --> 00:49:37.501
almost more than the criticism

00:49:37.501 --> 00:49:39.768
I got for writing
the Royal Commission Report

00:49:39.768 --> 00:49:41.301
and saying there should be

00:49:41.301 --> 00:49:43.268
something called
Employment Equity.

00:49:43.268 --> 00:49:46.434
It was really raw
in the public's mind,

00:49:46.434 --> 00:49:49.134
but that was fine
because I'm independent.

00:49:49.134 --> 00:49:50.868
I'm not going to lose my job

00:49:50.868 --> 00:49:53.434
because I write a decision
that protects minority interest.

00:49:53.434 --> 00:49:54.735
That's what I'm there for.

00:49:54.735 --> 00:49:57.102
- They have been waiting for
years to walk down the aisle.

00:49:57.102 --> 00:49:58.735
Gay and lesbian couples
in our city,

00:49:58.735 --> 00:50:00.434
fighting for the right
to legally marry.

00:50:00.434 --> 00:50:02.135
Today, they won that right.

00:50:02.135 --> 00:50:04.301
- Michael felt
it was very important

00:50:04.301 --> 00:50:06.334
that at least one
couple get married

00:50:06.334 --> 00:50:08.534
right after the
decision came out.

00:50:08.902 --> 00:50:10.868
If you're a member of a group

00:50:10.868 --> 00:50:12.868
that doesn't have equality,

00:50:12.868 --> 00:50:15.368
you approach it
obviously differently,

00:50:15.368 --> 00:50:18.401
because you bring
your own experience.

00:50:19.269 --> 00:50:23.268
- Rosalie Abella, everything
she's done on the bench,

00:50:23.268 --> 00:50:26.735
it's really...remarkable.

00:50:26.735 --> 00:50:28.301
Rosie: You as a judge

00:50:28.301 --> 00:50:30.235
have to be open to the reality

00:50:30.235 --> 00:50:33.368
in front of you, and not
to judge from the top down.

00:50:33.768 --> 00:50:36.735
Because, their story may not be

00:50:36.735 --> 00:50:37.768
your story.

00:50:37.768 --> 00:50:41.700
♪ (gentle piano music) ♪

00:50:48.101 --> 00:50:49.868
- She saw that she had

00:50:49.868 --> 00:50:51.768
a broad social responsibility,

00:50:51.768 --> 00:50:55.002
as well as that of a
member of the Supreme Court.

00:50:55.002 --> 00:50:58.234
- She took a particular path
and it had a particular voice,

00:50:58.234 --> 00:51:00.368
I think, with respect
to how quickly

00:51:00.368 --> 00:51:02.501
the law should evolve to reflect

00:51:02.501 --> 00:51:04.334
a society which was attempting

00:51:04.935 --> 00:51:07.201
to really make good
on its commitments around

00:51:07.201 --> 00:51:08.901
social and economic equality.

00:51:15.601 --> 00:51:17.168
- She's unapologetic

00:51:17.168 --> 00:51:20.301
in the fact
that she's not afraid to

00:51:20.301 --> 00:51:22.635
make laws or reverse laws.

00:51:22.635 --> 00:51:26.935
Rosie: The criticisms people
sometimes attach to courts is,

00:51:26.935 --> 00:51:29.268
you're not really taking
into account public opinion.

00:51:29.902 --> 00:51:32.101
This isn't what
the majority wants.

00:51:32.935 --> 00:51:36.168
To which I say public opinion
isn't a piece of evidence

00:51:36.168 --> 00:51:38.501
you can cross-examine
and test for the truth.

00:51:39.202 --> 00:51:42.635
But that's our job,
to risk being unpopular

00:51:42.635 --> 00:51:44.667
in order to do the right thing.

00:51:48.434 --> 00:51:50.167
Since I first became a judge,

00:51:50.167 --> 00:51:51.835
I never, ever didn't feel

00:51:52.202 --> 00:51:54.768
that something really important
was happening in my courtroom.

00:51:55.202 --> 00:51:57.701
All of the cases
felt important to me.

00:51:57.701 --> 00:52:00.334
♪ (gentle piano music) ♪

00:52:18.501 --> 00:52:20.735
It was a dispute about

00:52:20.735 --> 00:52:22.368
whether or not the

00:52:22.368 --> 00:52:24.334
Immigration and Refugee Board

00:52:24.334 --> 00:52:26.800
had taken
into sufficient account,

00:52:27.434 --> 00:52:29.268
the fact that what
we were dealing with

00:52:29.268 --> 00:52:31.234
was...a young person.

00:52:31.668 --> 00:52:33.901
- I submitted a refugee claim.

00:52:35.034 --> 00:52:37.902
And then...I got rejected.

00:52:37.902 --> 00:52:41.334
And they simply said,
that I can go back.

00:52:41.334 --> 00:52:42.568
Because the war is over.

00:52:42.568 --> 00:52:44.268
- You're not here with status.

00:52:44.268 --> 00:52:46.668
You're not entitled to be here.

00:52:46.668 --> 00:52:47.902
You have to leave.

00:52:47.902 --> 00:52:50.902
Rosie: You understand
what unusual hardship means,

00:52:50.902 --> 00:52:52.768
or disproportionate
hardship means,

00:52:52.768 --> 00:52:54.902
or undeserved hardship means,

00:52:54.902 --> 00:52:57.067
compared to hardship.

00:52:57.735 --> 00:53:01.368
And what, what I think is
difficult to figure out is,

00:53:01.368 --> 00:53:04.167
what role then is there
for the words

00:53:04.167 --> 00:53:05.902
humanitarian and compassionate?

00:53:05.902 --> 00:53:08.968
- Think about, you know,
one key case called Kanthasamy,

00:53:08.968 --> 00:53:10.935
where she's taken in her own

00:53:10.935 --> 00:53:12.768
lived experience as a migrant

00:53:12.768 --> 00:53:15.435
and infused a compassionate tone

00:53:15.435 --> 00:53:18.835
and really is a model in the way
in which we could see

00:53:18.835 --> 00:53:22.234
decision makers take that
compassionate and humanitarian

00:53:22.568 --> 00:53:24.067
approach to decision making.

00:53:25.269 --> 00:53:28.601
- I was so upset. I couldn't
even sleep at night.

00:53:28.601 --> 00:53:30.635
Because I was thinking to much.

00:53:30.635 --> 00:53:31.735
You know, what If I go back?

00:53:31.735 --> 00:53:34.135
What is going to happen to me?
I was so worried.

00:53:34.135 --> 00:53:38.234
Rosie: It was a dispute
about the exercise of discretion

00:53:38.735 --> 00:53:42.835
in applying rules to people who
were trying to come to Canada,

00:53:42.835 --> 00:53:45.768
and making sure that any
error was on the side of

00:53:45.768 --> 00:53:47.667
humanity and compassion.

00:53:51.935 --> 00:53:53.902
E. Solomon: Many members
of the province's

00:53:53.902 --> 00:53:56.167
Hutterite community
believe that being photographed

00:53:56.167 --> 00:53:57.468
is against God's Will.

00:53:57.468 --> 00:53:59.301
Rosie: And that was a case
where I thought

00:53:59.301 --> 00:54:00.768
freedom of religion,

00:54:00.768 --> 00:54:03.334
their right
to exercise their religion,

00:54:03.334 --> 00:54:05.701
outweighed any benefit
to the public,

00:54:05.701 --> 00:54:08.134
of having this rule
that required photographs.

00:54:08.668 --> 00:54:10.835
Are we in danger of
mixing up the concepts

00:54:10.835 --> 00:54:13.835
of jurisdiction
and justiciability?

00:54:13.835 --> 00:54:15.934
Because when I look
at the application

00:54:16.334 --> 00:54:17.835
for judicial review,

00:54:17.835 --> 00:54:19.867
there's no mention of religion.

00:54:20.701 --> 00:54:22.202
There's no mention of doctrine.

00:54:22.202 --> 00:54:24.568
So the first question,
it seems to me is,

00:54:24.568 --> 00:54:26.001
is there jurisdiction?

00:54:28.401 --> 00:54:30.301
- An important victory for Labor

00:54:30.301 --> 00:54:32.368
at the Supreme Court
of Canada today.

00:54:32.868 --> 00:54:35.868
The High Court struck down
a Saskatchewan law

00:54:35.868 --> 00:54:38.868
that prevented almost
all of its public sector workers

00:54:38.868 --> 00:54:41.835
from going on strike,
saying it's unconstitutional.

00:54:41.835 --> 00:54:44.868
Rosie: And I said,
you cannot have

00:54:44.868 --> 00:54:46.701
the protection of
collective bargaining,

00:54:46.701 --> 00:54:48.700
which our Court had done
a few years earlier,

00:54:49.401 --> 00:54:51.968
without the ultimate sanction

00:54:51.968 --> 00:54:54.235
that goes with
collective bargaining.

00:54:54.235 --> 00:54:57.968
Because if you are unsuccessful
at collective bargaining,

00:54:57.968 --> 00:54:59.735
the employer can lock you out.

00:54:59.735 --> 00:55:03.734
But the only remedy that
a union has, is to strike.

00:55:04.368 --> 00:55:06.067
And no one had ever
constitutionally

00:55:06.067 --> 00:55:07.734
protected the right to strike.

00:55:10.968 --> 00:55:12.835
P. Mansbridge: A landmark
Supreme Court hearing

00:55:12.835 --> 00:55:14.735
began today on whether to allow

00:55:14.735 --> 00:55:16.735
doctor-assisted suicide.

00:55:16.735 --> 00:55:18.534
Rosie: This was a case where

00:55:18.534 --> 00:55:20.902
it really was a
deliberative process.

00:55:20.902 --> 00:55:23.701
It was the Court,
I thought, at its best.

00:55:24.202 --> 00:55:29.567
Because it touches on such
visceral and personal concerns,

00:55:30.067 --> 00:55:31.934
we took it very seriously.

00:55:31.934 --> 00:55:33.601
That it wasn't a crime

00:55:33.601 --> 00:55:36.800
to assist someone
who did not want to

00:55:37.868 --> 00:55:41.068
continue to live
with intolerable suffering.

00:55:41.068 --> 00:55:43.402
Why would you be urging us
to take an approach

00:55:43.402 --> 00:55:45.734
that makes it harder,
rather than easier to reform?

00:55:46.234 --> 00:55:48.268
- It ought to be difficult.

00:55:48.268 --> 00:55:52.500
Rosie: It engaged
genuine concerns

00:55:53.301 --> 00:55:56.268
to make sure that
there was no abuse.

00:55:56.635 --> 00:55:59.067
I mean, is this
going to be used for

00:55:59.067 --> 00:56:01.768
cavalier purposes or

00:56:01.768 --> 00:56:04.835
were we really going to be able
to protect the dignity of people

00:56:04.835 --> 00:56:07.268
who had decided
the suffering was intolerable?

00:56:10.368 --> 00:56:12.301
I see justice

00:56:12.301 --> 00:56:14.700
as the aspirational application

00:56:15.635 --> 00:56:18.568
of the law to life.

00:56:18.568 --> 00:56:20.801
And that means they
have a relationship

00:56:20.801 --> 00:56:23.368
that has to be symbiotic.

00:56:24.334 --> 00:56:26.034
Otherwise,
it doesn't make any sense.

00:56:28.968 --> 00:56:31.635
Clark: I've seen some comments
with regard to Rosie

00:56:31.635 --> 00:56:34.002
as having been too
far ahead of her time.

00:56:34.002 --> 00:56:36.768
Law has to change.
If law doesn't change,

00:56:36.768 --> 00:56:39.534
societies lose
their own guidance,

00:56:39.534 --> 00:56:41.167
lose their own cohesion.

00:56:41.167 --> 00:56:43.334
And they need change-makers,

00:56:43.835 --> 00:56:45.302
who understand the law

00:56:45.302 --> 00:56:49.234
as well as they can intuit
the direction of the society.

00:56:49.534 --> 00:56:51.768
- And so she sees
the role of a judge

00:56:51.768 --> 00:56:55.601
as being in very real ways
the advocate for those people,

00:56:55.601 --> 00:56:58.301
the people who are left out,
of the underprivileged,

00:56:58.301 --> 00:56:59.700
of the unrepresented.

00:57:02.201 --> 00:57:03.368
- They're called law schools.

00:57:03.368 --> 00:57:05.735
They're not called
justice schools.

00:57:05.735 --> 00:57:07.235
Rosie Abella is someone

00:57:07.235 --> 00:57:10.434
who narrows, if doesn't,
eliminate that gap.

00:57:10.935 --> 00:57:14.768
Everything that she does
is about, 'where's the justice?'

00:57:15.235 --> 00:57:18.035
Rosie: Why shouldn't
the law operate in a way

00:57:18.035 --> 00:57:20.368
that makes equally accessible

00:57:20.368 --> 00:57:22.035
to those who are physically,

00:57:22.035 --> 00:57:24.534
as well as those who
are not physically able,

00:57:24.534 --> 00:57:26.735
to get the benefit
of a more compassionate

00:57:26.735 --> 00:57:27.935
approach to suicide?
- Because the--

00:57:27.935 --> 00:57:29.568
- But I think there
was certainly,

00:57:29.568 --> 00:57:32.101
was and is now a sense
that she represents

00:57:32.101 --> 00:57:34.635
a particularly provocative view

00:57:34.635 --> 00:57:36.502
of the role of a judge.

00:57:36.502 --> 00:57:39.500
She's not modest about the role
that a judge ought to have.

00:57:40.401 --> 00:57:41.601
Rosie: You know,
I remember when there was

00:57:41.601 --> 00:57:42.835
all this doctrine saying,

00:57:42.835 --> 00:57:44.501
'We don't want judges
with an agenda.

00:57:44.501 --> 00:57:46.735
We want judges
who are not biased.'

00:57:46.735 --> 00:57:48.701
And I thought, really?

00:57:48.701 --> 00:57:51.167
Then nobody over ten years old
doesn't have opinions.

00:57:51.635 --> 00:57:54.268
Being a judge means
knowing you have them,

00:57:54.268 --> 00:57:56.601
and being open to what you hear,

00:57:56.601 --> 00:57:58.434
so that you can transcend

00:57:58.434 --> 00:58:00.935
your biases,
which you must confront,

00:58:00.935 --> 00:58:04.434
and be open to the possibility
that your instincts were wrong.

00:58:05.068 --> 00:58:07.167
Chan: She's always
looking beyond that

00:58:07.167 --> 00:58:09.768
to broader principles
of justice,

00:58:10.102 --> 00:58:13.334
which are common
to all liberal democracies,

00:58:13.334 --> 00:58:15.568
which are common to

00:58:15.568 --> 00:58:17.902
courts in other jurisdictions.

00:58:17.902 --> 00:58:20.135
Rosie: We're not swashbuckling

00:58:20.135 --> 00:58:22.901
Don Quixotes
wandering the landscape

00:58:23.301 --> 00:58:24.668
looking for injustices.

00:58:24.668 --> 00:58:28.268
We do justice
by working with the law.

00:58:29.135 --> 00:58:32.568
But Parliament
actually passes laws.

00:58:32.568 --> 00:58:35.768
So when we do interpret
what they do and say,

00:58:35.768 --> 00:58:38.369
you're within the limits
of the Constitution,

00:58:38.369 --> 00:58:41.334
or you're not within the
limits of the Constitution,

00:58:41.334 --> 00:58:44.434
we're not trespassing
on their role.

00:58:44.434 --> 00:58:46.068
We're doing what
they've asked us to do

00:58:46.068 --> 00:58:48.368
by giving us a Charter
of Rights and Freedoms.

00:58:48.935 --> 00:58:51.601
Is that a controversial role?
Of course.

00:58:51.601 --> 00:58:54.001
I mean, nobody who's
lost a case ever thinks

00:58:54.001 --> 00:58:55.434
the court got it right.

00:58:55.434 --> 00:58:56.801
Nobody.

00:58:56.801 --> 00:59:00.101
♪ (gentle piano music) ♪

00:59:08.835 --> 00:59:10.101
- I don't know if
you've been in her office,

00:59:10.101 --> 00:59:12.101
but it's quite something.

00:59:12.501 --> 00:59:13.868
It's like walking into her mind.

00:59:13.868 --> 00:59:16.134
- I sort of
think of it as having

00:59:16.134 --> 00:59:17.468
fun house vibes.

00:59:17.468 --> 00:59:20.068
- I was overwhelmed
by all of the art.

00:59:20.068 --> 00:59:22.835
Gray: Rosie's
office is and was,

00:59:22.835 --> 00:59:24.868
a complete contrast
to every other

00:59:24.868 --> 00:59:26.534
Supreme Court judge's

00:59:26.534 --> 00:59:27.635
office I've been in.

00:59:27.635 --> 00:59:29.135
And I have been in quite a few.

00:59:29.135 --> 00:59:32.035
And there are oil paintings
and the wooden paneling

00:59:32.035 --> 00:59:35.034
and their neat piles of papers.

00:59:35.635 --> 00:59:37.635
You walk into Rosie's
and you think

00:59:37.635 --> 00:59:40.835
you're in some tchotchke shop
in, in Florida.

00:59:40.835 --> 00:59:43.234
Rosie: It's one of the
corners that you get

00:59:43.234 --> 00:59:45.568
for being a Senior Judge,

00:59:45.568 --> 00:59:47.835
which means...old.

00:59:47.835 --> 00:59:50.335
Gray: People would go in
and they would be completely

00:59:50.335 --> 00:59:52.667
floored by this.
I was the first time I saw it.

00:59:53.701 --> 00:59:55.234
Rosie: He once
told me that it was

00:59:55.234 --> 00:59:57.068
very easy to shop for me,

00:59:57.068 --> 00:59:58.935
because he would
go into the store,

00:59:59.302 --> 01:00:01.800
look for the ugliest thing,
and know that I would love it.

01:00:02.701 --> 01:00:06.801
- It's an unbelievable
explosion of pop art

01:00:06.801 --> 01:00:09.401
in many cases,
frankly, bad taste.

01:00:09.401 --> 01:00:12.134
Rosie: I apologize
to no one for my taste.

01:00:12.134 --> 01:00:14.167
Many would say, what taste?

01:00:14.167 --> 01:00:15.902
But, but it's mine!

01:00:15.902 --> 01:00:17.534
- I had standing permission

01:00:17.534 --> 01:00:20.401
to take any visitor
or guest into her office.

01:00:20.401 --> 01:00:22.002
And it was the one place
I would take them.

01:00:22.002 --> 01:00:23.867
The court room
and Rosie's office.

01:00:24.635 --> 01:00:26.635
Rosie: There're going to be
pictures of my family around,

01:00:26.635 --> 01:00:29.468
there're going to be
lots of books, teapots,

01:00:29.468 --> 01:00:31.868
the kinds of things
that make me feel

01:00:31.868 --> 01:00:34.700
really good about...who I am

01:00:34.901 --> 01:00:36.401
and what I like.

01:00:40.468 --> 01:00:42.635
Beaucage: She just
welcomes you with open arms

01:00:42.635 --> 01:00:45.568
and like she's met you and she's
known you for her entire life.

01:00:45.568 --> 01:00:48.234
And, you know,
it's quite something.

01:00:48.234 --> 01:00:50.134
And it wasn't
really an interview.

01:00:50.701 --> 01:00:53.468
We talked about Broadway
the entire time.

01:00:54.002 --> 01:00:55.334
Director: What do you look for
in a law clerk?

01:00:56.835 --> 01:00:58.102
Rosie: I look for somebody

01:00:58.102 --> 01:01:00.001
I'm going to like
working with for a year.

01:01:00.401 --> 01:01:03.167
But mostly, since they
are all intelligent,

01:01:04.035 --> 01:01:06.768
I want people
who can think bravely.

01:01:06.768 --> 01:01:09.700
And what I mean by that is,
people who can say to me,

01:01:10.434 --> 01:01:11.601
'I don't agree with that'.

01:01:11.601 --> 01:01:13.735
- When you walk in,
she's sitting at her,

01:01:13.735 --> 01:01:15.568
her marble desk and
you're sitting down

01:01:15.568 --> 01:01:17.234
on a pink wooden chair,

01:01:17.601 --> 01:01:19.101
and then she conducts
the interview

01:01:19.101 --> 01:01:21.202
and will ask you questions

01:01:21.202 --> 01:01:23.035
that you don't necessarily
expect to get in an interview

01:01:23.035 --> 01:01:24.635
for the Supreme Court
of Canada clerkship.

01:01:24.635 --> 01:01:27.801
- I fancied myself an
underground battle rapper

01:01:27.801 --> 01:01:29.768
slash spoken word poet

01:01:29.768 --> 01:01:31.701
in my undergrad days at U of T.

01:01:32.102 --> 01:01:34.868
And sure enough, Justice
Abella asked me about it

01:01:34.868 --> 01:01:36.402
in the interview
because she was,

01:01:36.402 --> 01:01:39.868
you know, fascinated by this
little nugget in my application.

01:01:40.135 --> 01:01:43.401
And I ended up reciting
one of my rap verses for her.

01:01:47.935 --> 01:01:50.234
- When you're a young lawyer,

01:01:50.234 --> 01:01:53.067
you dissociate the
law from people.

01:01:53.468 --> 01:01:55.434
But that's not how
Justice Abella does it.

01:01:55.434 --> 01:01:56.768
She thinks about people.

01:01:56.768 --> 01:01:59.735
I learned more in her office

01:01:59.735 --> 01:02:01.068
than I did in law school.

01:02:01.469 --> 01:02:04.500
- Having that opportunity at the
very beginning of my career

01:02:05.167 --> 01:02:07.668
was a really excellent way

01:02:07.668 --> 01:02:09.768
to set a path for

01:02:09.768 --> 01:02:11.534
what I hope to accomplish

01:02:11.534 --> 01:02:14.035
as a lawyer, and I think

01:02:14.035 --> 01:02:17.002
that she is someone
who has made every decision

01:02:17.002 --> 01:02:19.202
along the way,
reflecting her values.

01:02:19.202 --> 01:02:21.601
And so I think that that's
something I will carry with me.

01:02:21.601 --> 01:02:24.035
Plant: As sort of every clerk,
you know, leaves the court,

01:02:24.035 --> 01:02:26.135
you, you have just
a better sense of,

01:02:26.135 --> 01:02:28.935
you know, what the process
of justice at that level

01:02:28.935 --> 01:02:31.768
looks like and
that it is quite challenging.

01:02:31.768 --> 01:02:33.135
- One of the favorite things

01:02:33.135 --> 01:02:35.635
that any clerk ever
said to her was that

01:02:35.635 --> 01:02:36.934
they would help her

01:02:37.701 --> 01:02:39.301
create a slab of marble

01:02:39.301 --> 01:02:41.601
and she would turn
it into a statue.

01:02:41.601 --> 01:02:43.968
And I think that, that is

01:02:43.968 --> 01:02:46.168
a brilliant way to describe

01:02:46.168 --> 01:02:49.600
the relationship between
a clerk and Justice Abella.

01:02:54.601 --> 01:02:56.434
- She is dedicated to her work

01:02:56.434 --> 01:02:59.534
until she gets the perfect
work product.

01:02:59.534 --> 01:03:01.368
Writing, rewriting,

01:03:01.368 --> 01:03:03.701
starting over, rewriting.

01:03:03.701 --> 01:03:05.734
I've never seen someone
more passionate about it.

01:03:08.735 --> 01:03:09.935
Rosie:
These are works in progress.

01:03:09.935 --> 01:03:12.368
One is a majority,
one is a dissent.

01:03:12.368 --> 01:03:14.835
But it's the same
amount of work for me.

01:03:14.835 --> 01:03:16.002
J. Abella: You know,
I remember when I was a kid

01:03:16.002 --> 01:03:17.134
and she had a computer
in her office,

01:03:17.134 --> 01:03:19.269
she used to put art on.

01:03:19.269 --> 01:03:21.534
'Cause she had no idea
how to work any of that.

01:03:21.534 --> 01:03:23.034
So she still does
everything by hand,

01:03:23.568 --> 01:03:24.868
which is remarkable.

01:03:24.868 --> 01:03:26.601
Rosie: I swore years ago

01:03:26.601 --> 01:03:28.068
I would learn
how to use a computer,

01:03:28.068 --> 01:03:30.668
but I never got over my fear
that I'd lose everything.

01:03:31.168 --> 01:03:33.401
And I wouldn't be able
to put it all together again.

01:03:35.067 --> 01:03:36.701
I write by hand, first of all,

01:03:36.701 --> 01:03:39.568
so I edit as I go along
and I do it much more slowly.

01:03:39.935 --> 01:03:41.868
And then I'm
my own worst editor.

01:03:41.868 --> 01:03:44.068
I take each draft
and I look at it again,

01:03:44.068 --> 01:03:46.735
and I edit it and I edit it,
and I re-edit it.

01:03:47.335 --> 01:03:50.835
I just keep polishing until
I think it's crafted in a way

01:03:50.835 --> 01:03:52.835
that's clear to understand,

01:03:52.835 --> 01:03:54.701
and that I like reading it.

01:03:54.701 --> 01:03:58.534
- Certainly she's got
her own style of organization

01:03:58.534 --> 01:04:01.801
and revisit things
and tweak things as she goes,

01:04:01.801 --> 01:04:04.568
and it's quite a beautiful
thing to watch, actually.

01:04:04.568 --> 01:04:07.035
Chen: A lot of judges like
a throw in very fancy words,

01:04:07.035 --> 01:04:10.269
or very long metaphors that just
make it a little bit tedious.

01:04:10.269 --> 01:04:12.434
When I read hers,
I don't want to stop reading.

01:04:12.434 --> 01:04:13.835
And that's a huge thing
for a law student.

01:04:13.835 --> 01:04:16.801
Or if I'm reading a case
decision, I can keep going.

01:04:16.801 --> 01:04:18.768
Markin: She really loves
art and literature,

01:04:18.768 --> 01:04:20.234
and you notice that
in her writing,

01:04:20.234 --> 01:04:22.468
because she also wants to put in

01:04:22.468 --> 01:04:25.635
you know, beautiful
turns-of-phrases and metaphors

01:04:25.635 --> 01:04:27.168
and so you'll see
those in her writing, too.

01:04:27.168 --> 01:04:29.167
And they're really nice
when you come across them.

01:04:29.468 --> 01:04:32.102
Irving: She writes for
the people, she writes for,

01:04:32.102 --> 01:04:35.101
not the technicians
and not the academics,

01:04:35.101 --> 01:04:37.068
but for ordinary men and women,

01:04:37.402 --> 01:04:39.934
to understand what the law is
and what justice is.

01:04:40.434 --> 01:04:42.435
Rosie: Well, it can take months.

01:04:42.435 --> 01:04:45.102
It can take weeks, because
the process in this court

01:04:45.102 --> 01:04:48.868
is that when you write something
you think is good enough

01:04:49.168 --> 01:04:51.401
to put out for scrutiny
to your colleagues,

01:04:52.068 --> 01:04:54.368
then eight
magnifying glasses come out.

01:04:54.668 --> 01:04:56.435
Now, it's easier if you're
writing the dissent,

01:04:56.435 --> 01:04:58.468
because you're not writing
for eight other people,

01:04:58.468 --> 01:05:00.967
but when you're writing
on behalf of the majority,

01:05:01.501 --> 01:05:04.168
it's a deliberative consultation

01:05:04.168 --> 01:05:06.368
that is ongoing
until the judgment goes out.

01:05:10.202 --> 01:05:13.800
- So Rosie was the master
at kind of the big picture,

01:05:14.201 --> 01:05:16.568
the human impact and the

01:05:16.568 --> 01:05:18.835
intellectual rigor to get there.

01:05:18.835 --> 01:05:21.234
In fact, I remember when
I first came to the court,

01:05:21.234 --> 01:05:23.801
Rosie said to me,
in Rosie style,

01:05:23.801 --> 01:05:25.301
'Andromache, it's a family.

01:05:25.301 --> 01:05:27.835
It's like having eight spouses.'

01:05:27.835 --> 01:05:29.668
Imagine having to make

01:05:29.668 --> 01:05:31.700
important decisions every day

01:05:32.334 --> 01:05:34.635
with eight spouses,
and not only

01:05:34.635 --> 01:05:37.501
what the decision
should be, but why.

01:05:37.501 --> 01:05:39.068
- That's a very Rosie
kind of way.

01:05:39.068 --> 01:05:42.467
We should be able to talk things
out and arrive at a better,

01:05:42.967 --> 01:05:44.167
at a better solution.

01:05:44.968 --> 01:05:46.369
- She believed in collegiality.

01:05:46.369 --> 01:05:48.701
She would be the first colleague
who would get back to you

01:05:48.701 --> 01:05:51.202
when you circulated
draft reasons.

01:05:51.202 --> 01:05:54.468
We would get emails from her
all hours of the night.

01:05:54.468 --> 01:05:56.835
I mean, she had this
incredible work ethic.

01:05:56.835 --> 01:05:58.967
She believed in people.

01:05:58.967 --> 01:06:01.067
(applause)

01:06:01.067 --> 01:06:02.868
- What a treasure it is

01:06:02.868 --> 01:06:05.301
to bring these extraordinary
women together.

01:06:05.301 --> 01:06:07.002
(applause)

01:06:07.002 --> 01:06:10.568
The Honorable Justice
Rosalie Silberman Abella

01:06:10.568 --> 01:06:13.235
and someone we know very well,

01:06:13.235 --> 01:06:15.801
the Honorable
Ruth Bader Ginsburg,

01:06:15.801 --> 01:06:17.901
Associate Justice
of the United States.

01:06:19.135 --> 01:06:21.735
Rosie: The first time I heard
somebody say Canada's RBG,

01:06:21.735 --> 01:06:23.369
it took me by surprise.

01:06:23.369 --> 01:06:26.801
Z. Abella: On a surface level,
is also the first Jewish female

01:06:26.801 --> 01:06:29.968
to be on that country's
Supreme Court.

01:06:29.968 --> 01:06:31.935
But I think that's
where the comparison ends.

01:06:31.935 --> 01:06:35.468
Rosie: I think people mean it
in a, in a really nice way.

01:06:36.535 --> 01:06:40.134
I'm honored that they think
that I'm...have some resonance

01:06:40.134 --> 01:06:42.368
with somebody who was really

01:06:42.368 --> 01:06:45.968
quite a remarkable woman.

01:06:45.968 --> 01:06:47.734
I'm very different from her.

01:06:48.968 --> 01:06:50.935
- I find that
Justice Rosalie Abella

01:06:50.935 --> 01:06:53.901
really took a lot of sensitivity
and care and she's

01:06:54.902 --> 01:06:56.135
amazing in her own right

01:06:56.135 --> 01:06:57.568
and can stand on
her own for sure.

01:06:57.568 --> 01:06:59.434
Doesn't need to be
compared to anyone.

01:06:59.434 --> 01:07:01.201
Z. Abella: Obviously, RBG is a,

01:07:01.902 --> 01:07:04.468
you know, a hero to many people,

01:07:04.468 --> 01:07:07.469
but that's not my mom.
She was her own person.

01:07:07.469 --> 01:07:10.334
She wasn't Canada's RBG.
She is Canada's Rosie Abella.

01:07:12.368 --> 01:07:13.534
♪ (gentle piano music) ♪

01:07:13.534 --> 01:07:17.534
- 17 years as a Supreme Court
Judge, Rosalie Abella

01:07:17.534 --> 01:07:20.801
leaves the bench, but she leaves
a long legacy.

01:07:20.801 --> 01:07:23.601
Rosie: I've left a number
of professional homes.

01:07:24.168 --> 01:07:27.035
Each one of them
has felt like a home.

01:07:27.035 --> 01:07:29.434
It's been a very warm embrace.

01:07:29.434 --> 01:07:32.302
The Family Court was,
practicing law was,

01:07:32.302 --> 01:07:35.234
the Labor Board was,
the Law Reform Commission was.

01:07:35.801 --> 01:07:37.967
This is special because it's,

01:07:38.635 --> 01:07:40.202
it's the Supreme
Court of Canada,

01:07:40.202 --> 01:07:44.369
which was never
in contemplation at any point,

01:07:44.369 --> 01:07:47.034
including until the day
I got appointed here.

01:07:48.968 --> 01:07:51.434
But I'm not allowing
myself to get sad

01:07:51.434 --> 01:07:53.934
because I'm looking forward.

01:07:54.668 --> 01:07:57.468
But oh, it was,
it was such a great ride.

01:07:57.468 --> 01:07:58.668
I loved doing it!

01:07:58.668 --> 01:08:00.635
Z. Abella: I don't think
she ever wanted to

01:08:00.635 --> 01:08:01.968
spend the rest
of her life there.

01:08:02.335 --> 01:08:06.269
I think she's always been
in favor of mandatory retirement

01:08:06.269 --> 01:08:09.334
or getting off the stage
while you still can.

01:08:11.534 --> 01:08:14.835
Rosie: Because judging
is all about understanding

01:08:14.835 --> 01:08:17.534
the world around you,
and the world changes.

01:08:17.534 --> 01:08:20.768
And I like the idea that
there are new judges coming in,

01:08:20.768 --> 01:08:23.068
who will bring
their perspective.

01:08:23.068 --> 01:08:25.967
Different, maybe,
but it's their turn.

01:08:27.868 --> 01:08:29.735
This is not just
the last sitting day

01:08:29.735 --> 01:08:31.135
of the Supreme Court year.

01:08:31.135 --> 01:08:34.334
It is also the last sitting day
of my Supreme Court career.

01:08:35.235 --> 01:08:37.902
I remember how emotional
it was when was sworn in

01:08:37.902 --> 01:08:40.202
on October the 4th, 2004.

01:08:40.202 --> 01:08:42.868
But that was nothing
compared to how emotional

01:08:42.868 --> 01:08:44.601
it is to be sworn out.

01:08:44.601 --> 01:08:48.334
It was a very proud speech
about my generation,

01:08:49.035 --> 01:08:52.401
how Canada has blossomed
in the 50 years

01:08:52.401 --> 01:08:54.168
since I graduated
from law school.

01:08:54.168 --> 01:08:56.368
And I said,
okay, we've got to do this.

01:08:56.368 --> 01:08:59.668
We've to make this
worth listening to.

01:09:00.435 --> 01:09:03.434
Because I am not only
leaving my life on this Court,

01:09:04.002 --> 01:09:07.335
I'm leaving a judicial life
that started 45 years ago

01:09:07.335 --> 01:09:09.935
when Roy McMurtry appointed me
to the Family Division

01:09:09.935 --> 01:09:13.135
of the Provincial Court in 1976.

01:09:13.135 --> 01:09:15.134
The hardest part
was writing about my family.

01:09:15.935 --> 01:09:17.301
And that took me two hours.

01:09:18.135 --> 01:09:20.434
But I felt good
because I wasn't crying.

01:09:20.434 --> 01:09:22.768
And I always cry
when I talk about my family.

01:09:23.135 --> 01:09:25.335
But as I wrote it,
I wasn't crying.

01:09:25.335 --> 01:09:27.668
It's like, 'Oh my God,
this is going to be one speech

01:09:27.668 --> 01:09:29.768
where I don't break down
when I talk about my family.'

01:09:30.102 --> 01:09:32.600
And all of a sudden,
I could feel myself

01:09:33.134 --> 01:09:34.768
welling up and thinking,

01:09:34.768 --> 01:09:37.301
'oh, no, I'm not going to be
able to get through this.'

01:09:39.167 --> 01:09:40.935
My life as a lawyer and a Judge

01:09:40.935 --> 01:09:43.600
has been incredibly
intellectually fulfilling.

01:09:45.168 --> 01:09:48.001
But my real life,
the life of my heart,

01:09:49.068 --> 01:09:51.268
rests on the love
I feel for my family,

01:09:51.268 --> 01:09:52.301
(quiet sob)

01:09:52.301 --> 01:09:54.801
and the love they give back.

01:09:54.801 --> 01:09:57.368
And it was thinking
about my husband,

01:09:57.668 --> 01:09:59.835
and then
thinking about the kids.

01:09:59.835 --> 01:10:02.068
How do you know,
when you marry at 22,

01:10:02.068 --> 01:10:04.968
halfway through law school
that 53 years later,

01:10:04.968 --> 01:10:07.635
you will still love the
28 year-old visionary

01:10:07.635 --> 01:10:09.668
history professor you married,

01:10:09.668 --> 01:10:11.468
or that he will still love you?

01:10:12.135 --> 01:10:14.601
How do you know that
he will be the most supportive

01:10:14.601 --> 01:10:17.135
and humane parent
your children could have,

01:10:17.135 --> 01:10:20.967
or the most unconditionally
encouraging husband?

01:10:21.668 --> 01:10:23.469
And how could you know

01:10:23.469 --> 01:10:27.868
that these two sons you raised,
you raised together

01:10:27.868 --> 01:10:30.668
over the last 47 and 44 years

01:10:30.668 --> 01:10:33.102
would themselves
turn into such magnificent

01:10:33.102 --> 01:10:35.534
and brilliant people,
husbands and fathers?

01:10:36.269 --> 01:10:40.401
So to my spectacular husband
and sons, Jacob and Zachary,

01:10:40.768 --> 01:10:44.167
and especially their glorious
children, our grandchildren

01:10:44.167 --> 01:10:46.768
and our future,
Felix and Maisie,

01:10:47.269 --> 01:10:49.800
thank you for filling my life
with so much love,

01:10:50.268 --> 01:10:52.800
pride, gratitude and happiness.

01:10:53.601 --> 01:10:56.235
Then talking about my parents
who started it all.

01:10:56.235 --> 01:11:00.168
And, you know, the journey
from a displaced persons camp

01:11:00.168 --> 01:11:03.500
to the Supreme Court of Canada
as the first Jewish woman.

01:11:05.001 --> 01:11:05.967
It all hit me.

01:11:06.468 --> 01:11:08.268
It all hit me,
and I couldn't stop it.

01:11:08.968 --> 01:11:10.801
My final thoughts
are with two people

01:11:10.801 --> 01:11:12.635
who aren't here but
are always with me.

01:11:12.635 --> 01:11:14.668
(quiet sob)

01:11:14.668 --> 01:11:16.901
This day, like everything
else in my life

01:11:17.868 --> 01:11:19.967
would not be possible
without my parents.

01:11:21.768 --> 01:11:24.368
They were Holocaust survivors

01:11:24.368 --> 01:11:27.134
whose lives and families
were destroyed,

01:11:27.668 --> 01:11:29.735
but whose optimism and belief

01:11:29.735 --> 01:11:31.768
in the goodness
of people never were.

01:11:32.369 --> 01:11:35.202
They brought my sister
and me to Canada in 1950,

01:11:35.202 --> 01:11:37.600
with the highest hopes
for a happy life.

01:11:38.501 --> 01:11:40.134
They got it.

01:11:40.134 --> 01:11:41.468
And they gave it to me.

01:11:41.935 --> 01:11:44.334
I have been so lucky.

01:11:44.334 --> 01:11:47.368
And so on the eve
of my 75th birthday,

01:11:47.368 --> 01:11:49.368
on Canada Day,

01:11:49.368 --> 01:11:52.434
I say to Canada on their behalf,
thank you.

01:11:53.335 --> 01:11:55.834
Thank you for giving them
the life they dreamed of

01:11:56.534 --> 01:11:59.401
and for giving me a life
beyond their wildest dreams.

01:12:00.401 --> 01:12:03.268
I am so proud and lucky
to be a Canadian.

01:12:04.368 --> 01:12:05.468
Thank you.

01:12:05.468 --> 01:12:15.201
(applause)

01:12:19.068 --> 01:12:21.434
("Love Is Here to Stay"
by Frank Sinatra)
♪ It's very clear ♪

01:12:22.468 --> 01:12:25.101
♪ Our love is here to stay ♪

01:12:27.601 --> 01:12:30.102
- It's such a beautiful,
beautiful marriage,

01:12:30.102 --> 01:12:32.868
and their total
and complete love

01:12:32.868 --> 01:12:34.735
for each other
and support for each other.

01:12:35.135 --> 01:12:37.567
It glows. You just want
to be in their presence.

01:12:38.534 --> 01:12:40.301
♪ --and the telephone ♪

01:12:40.301 --> 01:12:41.601
J. Abella: That partnership,

01:12:41.601 --> 01:12:44.035
my mother and my father is the

01:12:44.035 --> 01:12:46.468
foundational partnership
of our lives.

01:12:46.468 --> 01:12:49.202
It is why and how
my mother achieved so much,

01:12:49.202 --> 01:12:51.968
and she will still
achieve even more, I believe.

01:12:51.968 --> 01:12:53.901
But she could not have
done it without my father.

01:12:53.901 --> 01:12:55.734
Z. Abella: She was

01:12:56.801 --> 01:13:00.534
the best friend that
any partner could have.

01:13:00.534 --> 01:13:02.635
Irving: When I was in
the hospital recently,

01:13:02.635 --> 01:13:06.134
Rosie not only came to visit,
she stayed,

01:13:06.134 --> 01:13:07.634
for five weeks.

01:13:08.468 --> 01:13:11.434
Rosie:
He'd had some issues with his

01:13:11.434 --> 01:13:13.369
heart, with his kidneys.

01:13:13.369 --> 01:13:16.534
He'd spent five and-a-half
weeks in the hospital

01:13:16.534 --> 01:13:19.135
the summer before,
with heart failure and

01:13:19.135 --> 01:13:22.467
almost died three or four times
that, in that period.

01:13:23.334 --> 01:13:26.433
Never once complained.
Never once!

01:13:28.868 --> 01:13:30.501
Z. Abella: She would
come home from hospital

01:13:30.501 --> 01:13:32.635
and there would be her grandkids

01:13:33.435 --> 01:13:36.301
and she would act like it was
just another day at the office.

01:13:36.668 --> 01:13:39.533
For them and for,
you know, frankly, for me

01:13:39.934 --> 01:13:41.001
and my brother.

01:13:42.868 --> 01:13:45.835
Irving: She slept in
a chair beside the bed

01:13:46.202 --> 01:13:48.768
and I couldn't get rid of her.
And she was terrific.

01:13:48.768 --> 01:13:50.901
She's my advocate, my partner.

01:13:51.301 --> 01:13:52.701
Rosie: He left the hospital

01:13:52.701 --> 01:13:54.533
at the end of the
five and-a-half weeks

01:13:55.468 --> 01:13:56.868
on dialysis.

01:13:56.868 --> 01:13:59.768
That was different
from when he had gone in,

01:14:00.269 --> 01:14:03.768
but his life was saved
by the extraordinary

01:14:03.768 --> 01:14:06.002
medical staff at the UHN.

01:14:06.002 --> 01:14:08.701
And we thought it was going
to be just a question of

01:14:08.701 --> 01:14:11.234
dealing with a
new life on dialysis.

01:14:12.534 --> 01:14:14.701
Z. Abella: She made sure
that anything he needed,

01:14:14.701 --> 01:14:15.800
he would have.

01:14:16.434 --> 01:14:18.902
She was the kind of person

01:14:18.902 --> 01:14:21.735
you would want by your side
if you're ever that situation.

01:14:22.102 --> 01:14:23.934
Rosie: Never felt
we were losing the battle.

01:14:25.201 --> 01:14:26.935
We felt strong.

01:14:26.935 --> 01:14:29.533
Like I was taking
my strength from him.

01:14:30.401 --> 01:14:31.401
He was--

01:14:33.735 --> 01:14:34.701
remarkable.

01:14:34.968 --> 01:14:36.501
We weren't looking ahead.

01:14:36.501 --> 01:14:38.767
We were looking day by day,

01:14:39.668 --> 01:14:40.901
issue by issue,

01:14:41.768 --> 01:14:43.401
crisis by crisis.

01:14:43.401 --> 01:14:45.368
And we were doing it together.

01:14:45.368 --> 01:14:56.268
♪ (soft mournful note) ♪

01:14:56.268 --> 01:14:57.368
He was my life.

01:14:59.601 --> 01:15:01.001
And the kid's life.

01:15:01.001 --> 01:15:03.401
He was modest.

01:15:03.401 --> 01:15:04.967
He was fearless.

01:15:05.968 --> 01:15:08.501
He was decent. He was honest.

01:15:08.501 --> 01:15:11.001
He was...gentle.

01:15:12.934 --> 01:15:14.268
He was so loving.

01:15:24.534 --> 01:15:25.667
You don't give up.

01:15:28.301 --> 01:15:29.434
You don't stop.

01:15:32.668 --> 01:15:33.901
You don't forget.

01:15:37.768 --> 01:15:39.468
That's how you
honor their memory.

01:15:42.602 --> 01:15:45.167
You live the life you know they
would have wanted you to have.

01:15:47.434 --> 01:15:48.667
It's all you can do.

01:15:58.401 --> 01:16:03.067
♪ (gentle piano music) ♪

01:16:03.067 --> 01:16:05.834
Law sets the beginning

01:16:07.001 --> 01:16:09.401
of how society functions.

01:16:09.401 --> 01:16:11.468
But lawyers and judges,

01:16:11.468 --> 01:16:15.034
they take those,
those bones and they

01:16:16.068 --> 01:16:19.034
introduce humanity
to the possibility of justice,

01:16:19.534 --> 01:16:22.534<