Transcription - Death - Episode 5

ENGLISH

 

 

00:00:13:16

It is said there is only one thing worse than dying.

 

 

00:00:24:05

And that is to die alone.

 

 

00:00:26:11

I see you’ve met my friends.

 

 

00:00:29:09

Now you’re dead.

 

 

00:00:41:01

Gathering together is a well known strategy for survival, and it’s not only reserved for people.

 

 

00:00:49:02

Being part of a herd can provide protection against attacks.

 

 

00:00:53:03

Oh my god! Oh my god.

 

 

00:00:56:23

But the membership in a herd can also be risky, and it comes with obligations.

 

 

00:01:03:08

Either you are with us, or you are with the enemy.

 

 

00:01:08:15

Who will die and what their death mean is subject to a constant political struggle.

 

 

00:01:15:10

There can also be a struggle when it comes to how those who have died will be remembered.

 

 

00:01:21:04

Margaret Thatcher didn’t just lead our country, she saved our country.

 

 

00:01:27:09

Dead, dead, dead.

 

 

00:01:35:15

But when disaster strikes, we respond quickly and collectively, and search for meaning in what has happened.

 

 

00:01:46:04

After Tonje lost her mother, and Peter his wife, they travelled the world together searching for different ways to deal with death.

 

 

00:01:55:07

They have encountered many people with different views on death, and interpretations of how those who have died will be remembered.

 

 

00:02:05:20

But who is really in charge of this?

 

 

00:02:09:11

Is it ourselves?  Is it our leaders?

 

 

00:02:15:04

What will the final consensus be?

 

 

00:02:20:05

And what happens when we disagree on what significance a death is given?

 

 

00:02:30:15

40 000 people died in Norway in 2011.

 

 

00:02:37:09

77 of these had a greater impact on the country than all the others.

 

 

00:02:58:15

Hello.

Yes, hello?

Hi, I can hear you.

Is it Peter.

It is.

 

 

00:03:03:09

The entire R4 in Grubbegata where the Department of Health is housed, the front is totally blown up.

Oh, my goodness.

This is totally insane. Did you hear that?

Yes this is totally insane.

 

 

00:03:18:16

The violent explosion outside the government building on July 22nd 2011 terrified the whole of Norway.

 

 

00:03:26:14

Immediately,  speculations surfaced on who was behind this attack and why.

 

 

00:03:32:11

If this is an act of terror, it is most likely Islamist terrorists with inspirational ties to Al-Qaeda.

 

 

00:03:46:09

But speculation ended when the full extent of the terrorist attack was known.

 

 

00:03:52:07

In addition to the bombing of the Government building in Oslo, 69 young people were shot to death at the Labour party’s youth camp at Utøya.

 

 

00:04:04:14

It took 3 hours and 11 minutes before it was known that the perpetrator was Norwegian.

 

 

00:04:13:20

But for the survivors, for their families, and for the country, July 22nd was only the beginning.

 

 

00:04:23:03

And the process of comprehending what had happened, mourning the dead, and dealing with the consequences would influence the country for a long time.

 

 

00:04:34:09

We have chosen to answer cruelty with closeness; we have chosen to meet hatred with unity.

 

 

00:04:46:16

It will change Norway, but it should change us in the direction of more democracy, more participation, more debate.

 

 

00:04:54:19

Dear, dear Norway, we will take back our safety.

 

 

00:05:03:05

When there is trauma like this, time is of importance..

 

 

00:05:07:20

July 1st, 2013, two years after the tragedy, Labour youth again arrange its traditional Summer camp.

 

 

00:05:16:19

Not at Utøya, but a few kilometres away, at Gulsrud.

 

 

00:05:22:22

But how do these young people view the future?

 

 

00:05:26:16

I think we need some time before we go back to Utøya.

 

 

00:05:31:05

It was right around the corner from here, so I think we’ve come quite far already, I’d say. It’s only been two years since it happened.

 

 

00:05:40:23

The atmosphere at Gulsrud is awesome.

 

 

00:05:44:15

Right now, people are a bit stressed out, truth be told. The waffle-stand needs to be put up, the info-stand needs to be put up, but I really look forward to tomorrow when the delegates start to arrive.

 

 

00:05:55:20

There is always such a great atmosphere when AUF-members are  gathered, and it is because, it is as much about being together and having fun as it is about being politically involved.

 

 

00:06:12:14

Renate and the other young people are going to live on.

 

 

00:06:17:10

They have to decide how to live with their experiences, and what significance Utøya will have for them in the future.

 

 

00:06:26:24

And the rest of the country will have to do the same.

 

 

00:06:39:21

To give meaning to the loss of life is part of defining the community.

 

 

00:06:48:07

Our 3rd war-time Memorial Day is a deeply solemn occasion, as both spectators and marchers alike look to the sacrifices that lie ahead before victory.

 

 

00:06:59:20

A solemn tribute from the children of this great nation, the future leaders in our way of life.

 

 

00:07:05:17

These heroes paid with their lives to keep our country strong, they did not die in vain.

 

 

00:07:16:10

One thing is for certain, reminders are important.

 

 

00:07:20:17

In the capital of the United States, Washington D.C., these memorials are plentiful.

 

 

00:07:27:17

The National Mall in Washington has always been considered a kind of a national sacred space.

 

 

00:07:33:19

Symbols, and I think in particular symbols of remembrance, play a very large role I think in the

construction and consolidation of national identity.

 

 

00:07:42:22

Everything that is erected on the mall carries symbolic weight, and does a certain kind of work in

terms of legitimating particular pasts for the nation.

 

 

00:07:54:08

The stories that are told through the memorials of the dead are also reflected in the

urban planning of the city.

 

 

00:08:01:19

This is the U.S. Capital Building. This is The White House. This is The Washington Monument.

This of course is The Lincoln Memorial. And The Jefferson Memorial.

 

 

00:08:14:24

You’ll notice that there is a very geometric grid-like arrangement here, and it’s interesting also to

note sites of governmental power are constellated in relation to sites of memory in this nation.

 

 

00:08:31:09

National identity is always difficult to forge, and yet very, very important in terms of developing

consensus.

 

 

00:08:43:03

To agree on the history of a country lays the foundation for the direction one chooses to go forward.

 

 

00:08:51:06

And when one builds a war monument, it has a double-significance; the importance of remembering, and how the war should be remembered.

 

 

00:09:03:00

Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall in Washington D.C. is one of the most visited monuments in the city.

 

 

00:09:10:02

Here, the names of all the American soldiers killed in the war are carved onto the wall, and this number might seem overwhelming.

 

 

00:09:20:14

More than 58.000

 

 

00:09:25:00

In Vietnam, the number killed is not as easily calculated.

 

 

00:09:31:11

However, one estimate shows that the number of Vietnamese killed in this war was 3.8 million.

 

 

00:09:42:07

Hoang Cao Dai was an officer for the North Vietnamese forces during the war.

 

 

00:09:50:07 VIETANMESE

Today we focus on transferring knowledge to the young people in Vietnam.

 

 

00:09:57:04 VIETANMESE

So that they can remember the heroes that have fallen.

 

 

00:10:03:15 VIETANMESE

They fell so the young can live on.

 

 

00:10:08:23 VIETANMESE

For the country and to protect our traditions.

 

 

00:10:17:06

Vietnam was divided, citizen fought citizen.

 

 

00:10:23:03

This memorial cemetery is reserved for those who were on the winning side.

 

 

00:10:30:01 VIETANMESE

This is the Martyr’s graveyard, corporals from troop T3, 67A.

 

 

00:10:39:04 VIETANMESE

This martyr was born in 1952 and sacrificed himself 22.12.1969

 

 

00:10:45:15 VIETANMESE

He was my brother in arms.

 

 

00:10:55:12

A personal loss in the fight for a greater cause, to commemorate the dead will help us shape who we are, both for society and for us as individuals.

 

 

00:11:09:01

Mom, grandpa, great-grandma.

 

 

00:11:14:17

But dad, where will you be buried?

 

 

00:11:18:17

It is certainly the easiest for me to visit you and look after the grave if you are here with the others.

Yes, of course.

 

 

00:11:30:01

Knowledge of our ancestors and descendants puts ourselves into a larger context, this can come from the need to give meaning of our lives.

 

 

00:11:42:09

Human beings are fundamentally social animals who are also innately predisposed towards making meaning.

 

 

00:11:53:18

We would just be quivering blobs of biological protoplasm, cowering under our chairs, groping for giant sedatives if we didn’t have some way to make sense of ourselves and our surroundings.

 

 

00:12:09:11

The way that we do that is by constructing stories.

 

 

00:12:19:18

The stories we tell about our dead create a sense of belonging and remind us of who we are.

 

 

00:12:26:21

Whether we build spectacular monuments for our great rulers,

 

 

00:12:31:20

Or merely recall some our immediate family, memorials are important to us.

 

 

00:12:38:21

So this is an image of a child in a carriage, and this is a very common motif of post-mortem

photography, showing the last sleep of the child,

 

 

00:12:47:22

they are posed as if they just have fallen asleep, but obviously the viewer knows that the child

has passed away.

 

 

00:12:56:05

The invention of the camera made it  possible for ordinary people to be immortalized, including the dead.

 

 

00:13:04:05

At the time post-mortem photography was happening there was also a long tradition of post-humous portraitures, so people were making paintings of the dead,

 

 

00:13:14:05

so post-mortem photography was a cheaper way, and a more affordable way to memorialise the dead.

 

 

00:13:21:22

This is a very simple portrait where it’s a child laid out at home, in a simple bed, it looks almost like a cabinet here, it’s a very simple composition.

 

 

00:13:30:08

And then the reason that I bought this image was that on the back someone had handwritten “Mine, this is my cousin.”

 

 

00:13:37:18

So the idea that this child is very young, but obviously they didn’t write “this was my cousin”, “this is my cousin”, so this child is very much still alive in that person’s mind, and there is a sense of ownership, that this is my cousin, this is mine.

 

 

00:13:54:12

But when one is about to immortalize a head of state, snapping a photo or two is not enough.

 

 

00:14:02:02

Those who want to be extravagant can take care of the body by embalming it and placing it permanently in a mausoleum.

 

 

00:14:13:08

Even four decades after his death there are still long queues to see the embalmed body of Vietnam's great leader Ho Chi Minh.

 

 

00:14:25:17 VIETANMESE

As a Vietnamese, we are really proud, since the mausoleum is the resting place of Ho Chi Minh.

 

 

00:14:33:12 VIETANMESE

He saved our country. Every time we show the mausoleum to guests I feel very proud and emotional,

 

 

00:14:42:02 VIETANMESE

as it reflects the workers, and the work of those who are buried.

 

 

00:14:49:12

The mausoleum built in honour of Ho Chi Minh, is directly inspired by the resting place of another famous statesman.

 

 

00:14:59:13

Red Square in Moscow, the embalmed corpse of the revolutionary leader Vladimir Lenin has remained on display since 1924.

 

 

00:15:14:01 RUSSIAN

We created a cult around him. This was already the case while he was alive.

 

 

00:15:19:19 RUSSIAN

When he died, his corps became a holy relic that the people went to for decades, and this was a sanctuary.

 

 

00:15:30:04

Displaying a dead statesman in this fashion is a very strong statement, saying that what he or she stood for is vital for the country.

 

 

00:15:42:07

What overriding factor determines who should be remember in this way?

 

 

00:15:50:21

The Argentinian politician, Eva Perón, had both supporters and opponents.

 

 

00:16:01:14

There are many people in Argentina who still keep the memory of Eva Perón alive.

 

 

00:16:08:20 SPANISH

This place is Evita’s mausoleum.

 

 

00:16:13:01 SPANISH

We always come here on anniversaries to visit her, and we often come here to pray with her.

 

 

00:16:25:24 SPANISH

She asks us what we think she is doing now, and about how we are doing.

 

 

00:16:37:08 SPANISH

We always come here as if she were alive, in our minds she is alive.

 

 

00:16:43:02 SPANISH

It is a dialog that we have together.

 

 

00:16:48:19

What was it about Eva Perón that still strongly links people in Argentina to her?

 

 

00:16:58:17

Eva Perón was the poor girl who became a national icon.

 

 

00:17:04:14

She was an actress when she married General Juan Perón.

 

 

00:17:09:19

When he became president in 1946, Eve got an overwhelming welcome as the country’s First Lady.

 

 

00:17:18:21

Much of the popularity was due to her strong commitment to the poor, and for women’s rights.

 

 

00:17:29:14

When she developed cancer in 1950, at just 30 years of age, she had already gained mythical status, and was named "the spiritual leader of Argentina."

 

 

00:17:42:19

And for the rest of the world, she is immortalized in Andrew Lloyd Webber's famous musical.

 

 

00:17:49:21

Evita starts in 15 minutes, 15 minutes, and we let the audience in now.

 

 

00:17:57:16

I’m not thinking about death when I play her.

 

 

00:18:02:16

But that is probably because she meant so much to so many people while she was alive.

 

 

00:18:06:22

and, perhaps because she became such a huge symbol for hope and possibilities.

 

 

00:18:23:20 SPANISH

The government’s information office has the sad obligation of announcing to the Argentine

people that at 8.25pm, lady Eva Perón passed away.

 

 

00:18:37:19

July 1952, Argentinians receive the devastating news, Eva Perón is dead, just 33 years old.

 

 

00:18:51:22 SPANISH

The whole world spilled into the streets. The flowers, all, all that… cannot describe how it was,

 

 

00:19:04:19 SPANISH

for us who were crying like crazy.

 

 

00:19:13:16

More than 2 million people follow Eva Perón's coffin through Buenos Aires.

 

 

00:19:19:23

2,000 are injured, and eight people die in the stampede that occurs when people try to get close to the coffin.

 

 

00:19:28:14

And there are huge plans for the embalmed corpse.

 

 

00:19:33:06

A mausoleum with a statue as tall as the Statue of Liberty will be raised, where her body will be permanently displayed.

 

 

00:19:45:16

But these plans never came to fruition.

 

 

00:19:53:08

In 1955, three years after Evita's death, Juan was overthrown in a military coup.

 

 

00:20:02:05

He fled to Spain while the embalmed body of Evita was left in his residence.

 

 

00:20:12:19

The military seized power and abducted Eva’s body, which went missing for almost 16 years.

 

 

00:20:21:06

Don’t cry for me, Argentina.

 

 

00:20:35:15

Every single one of us carries with us our stories and our role models.

 

 

00:20:41:12

Meanwhile, every country has its’ own national heroes.

 

 

00:20:46:24

In communist Vietnam; people admire Ho Chi Minh and Lenin.

 

 

00:20:58:09

In the United States they also have their role models. John F. Kennedy is one of the most famous presidents.

 

 

00:21:07:08

His grave has perhaps the most prominent placement at Arlington Cemetery in Washington D.C.

 

 

00:21:16:12

However, in all countries, there are people and values ​​that one would rather hide away.

 

 

00:21:22:21

In stories about the country they are assigned the role of the villain.

 

 

00:21:27:24

Tucked away outside Dallas, Texas, is a tomb which has only a surname; Oswald. The man who allegedly shot John F. Kennedy.

 

 

00:21:41:03

But those who have been hidden away, can be brought back into the spotlight. And vice versa

 

 

00:21:49:08

When there is a regime change in a country, it is not uncommon to alternate who is worth remembering, and who one should hide away and forget.

 

 

00:22:00:18

Some use all their power to remove all traces of their opponent.

 

 

00:22:08:10 SPANISH

All the hospitals were intervened, and the military took power.

 

 

00:22:14:02 SPANISH

They went and ruined everything. They took all the signs that said Evita,

 

 

00:22:20:04 SPANISH

even sheets were cut up, burned and thrown away.

 

 

00:22:26:19 SPANISH

There was nothing left.

 

 

00:22:30:24

Almost immediately after her death, everything that reminded the public of Evita was removed from public places.

 

 

00:22:39:01

Everything that carried her name was forbidden. If one wanted to retain a single nursing diploma from the Eva Perón Foundation, one had to hide it away.

 

 

00:22:51:12

We can build up memories of people we liked, and try to erase the memories of those we disliked.

 

 

00:22:58:03

But it is impossible to manipulate a populations memory of a single person.

 

 

00:23:03:24

A human being has so many sides.

 

 

00:23:08:08

The image of who a person of power really was, what he or she stood for and achieved, is mainly created in the same arena that made the person famous while alive; the media.

 

 

00:23:22:02

At large media companies, like the New York Times, they have editors solely dedicated to selecting who deserves the column space after their death.

 

 

00:23:32:00

We have to have a sense of humour like any other office setting you know, there is some dark humour, some black humour, some gallows humour

 

 

00:23:39:12

William McDonald has worked with obituaries for many years. And he has published some of the best in book form.

 

 

00:23:46:24

I think we have a big impact on the collective memory. It’s part of what we do in fact, we remind the public certainly of the people who made a difference, and I think the relevance of obituaries is that they tell the reader, they tell all of us, how we got to where we are today.

 

 

00:24:08:01

This is BBC television news. Buckingham palace has just announced the death of the Queen mother.

 

 

00:24:15:23

How should we refer to the dead? There is a fine line between what is acceptable and that which is unacceptable with regards to obituary writing.

 

 

00:24:27:12

To get on top of things, journalists pre-produce obituaries about people who are still alive.

 

 

00:24:34:19

We have about 1500 on file right now. Some people are flattered to know perhaps that we’ve done their obituary in advance.

 

 

00:24:42:10

In 2003, CNN released by mistake seven pre-written obituaries, and they were not very different from each other.

 

 

00:24:52:07

The pre-written obituary for Vice President Dick Cheney was suspiciously similar to the obituary for the Queen Mother.

 

 

00:25:01:19

Just like her, he was presented as the UK's favourite grandmother.

 

 

00:25:12:22

So what I say to you now as your Queen and as a grandmother, I say from my heart. First I want to pay tribute to Diana myself.

 

 

00:25:24:18

She was an exceptional and gifted human being…

 

 

00:25:28:01

When obituaries are written and delivered, it is common to focus on the positive aspects of the departed. But why is this so?

 

 

00:25:41:22

One of the world's foremost experts on the psychological effects of death is Sheldon Solomon.

 

 

00:25:48:18

Well, when somebody dies, I think perhaps not surprisingly, we remember them in a very flattering fashion. And some of this I suspect is because we are truly wanting to honour their memory.

 

 

00:26:05:09

I also suspect that part of that has to do with concerns about our own mortality.

 

 

00:26:13:17

When somebody close dies it’s hard not, in the back of your head, to be thinking “oh, I wonder what they’ll say about me when it’s my turn to depart”.

 

 

00:26:27:13

Being talked about is a way to continue living on after death. Making sure you keep the conversation going long after one is dead has been important for many throughout the ages.

 

 

00:26:39:16

In Håvamål, a famous collection of poems from the Viking Age, it says;

 

 

00:26:45:12

Cattle die;

Friends die;

We all die.

But the word about you will never die;

So earn yourself a good word.

 

 

00:26:58:22

The Vikings believed that it was a good thing to die in honourable combat. But the cream on the cake was if you could top it off with a last, profound comment before dying.

 

 

00:27:10:05

They are quite popular, these wide-blade spears.

 

 

00:27:20:08

Oh, dad! Try again.

 

 

00:27:27:12

Being tough when staring death in the eye doesn’t work well for everyone. Some focus on completely different aspects and values ​​that they believe are more memorable.

 

 

00:27:39:14

Graham Chapman was one of the six comedians in the Monty Python group. He died from cancer in October 1989.

 

 

00:27:48:08

Two months later, his friends held a memorial service for him.

 

 

00:27:53:01

Graham Chapman, co-author of the parrot sketch, is no more.  He has ceased to be.  Bereft of life he rests in peace.  He has kicked the bucket, hopped the twig, bit the dust, snuffed it, breathed his last, and gone to meet the great head of light entertainment in the sky.

 

 

00:28:18:22

And I guess that we’re all thinking how sad it is that a man of such talent, of such capability for kindness, for such unusual intelligence, should now so suddenly be spirited away at the age of only 48,

 

 

00:38:37:03

before he had achieved many of the things of which he was capable, and before he’d had enough fun.

 

 

00:28:46:03

Well, I feel that I should say nonsense, good riddance to him, the freeloading bastard, I hope he fries.

 

 

00:28:57:16

Different experiences and values ​​affect the way we deal with death.

 

 

00:29:03:17

But do we also have commonalities in our reactions when we are reminded of death? Commonalities that can be used politically.

 

 

00:29:14:06

Sheldon Solomon and his colleagues have conducted a series of psychological experiments to determine what effect such reminders have on our behaviour.

 

 

00:29:25:04

Lets have some people think about the fact that they will some day die, and let’s have other people think about something that’s unpleasant, but not fatal.

 

 

00:29:36:12

So that’s what we did, we just developed this little what we call “mortality salience prime”.

 

 

00:29:43:10

After the form were filled out, the participants were sat in a waiting room. The people there had different looks and ethnic backgrounds.

 

 

00:29:52:18

People who are reminded of their mortality, they become much more positive and enthusiastic to other folks who share their beliefs, and they become much more derogatory and hostile to people who are different.

 

 

00:30:10:10

But were the people there willing to harm others as a result of this?

 

 

00:30:15:01

They are gonna get an opportunity to give somebody, who they know doesn’t like spicy food, any amount of hot sauce and chilli sauce that they’d like, and they’d have to consume.

 

 

00:30:26:23

The Chilli Experiment the researchers conducted is now world famous. Those who had not been exposed to their own fear of death gave an appropriate amount of chilli at all the meals.

 

 

00:30:39:21

For those who had been exposed to death, the result was different.

 

 

00:30:43:17

These people poured over twice as much chilli sauce on the food of those they saw as different, and they did it deliberately.

 

 

00:30:51:04

But when we said, hey, do you think you were a little heavy-handed in your hot sauce allocation, they said you’re damn right, we knew we were burning them.

 

 

00:31:06:04

It may not be life threatening to give a little extra chilli sauce.

 

 

00:31:13:11

But the aggressiveness this implies can have serious consequences when we really get scared of dying.

 

 

00:31:21:00

Oh my god!

 

 

00:31:24:06

Our war on terror begins with Al-Qaeda.  But it does not end there.  It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped, and defeated.

 

 

00:31:51:13

We did a lot of studies leading up to the 2004 presidential election where we showed that Americans were not very enthusiastic about either president Bush or his policies in Iraq when we asked them to think about something unpleasant,

 

 

00:32:07:05

but when we reminded them of their mortality, their affection for Bush and support for the invasion of Iraq was just extremely higher.

 

 

00:32:22:16

But when we connect strongly to a group, it can also bring out another side to us; the will to sacrifice.

 

 

00:32:34:06

The idea of ​​sacrifice is old.

 

 

00:32:38:07

In the early 1500s, the Aztecs ruled Mexico.

 

 

00:32:44:13

They believed that they had to feed people to the sun for the sun to cross the horizon every day.

 

 

00:32:53:24

Sacrificing yourself at the top of the pyramid was in the best interests of the community.

 

 

00:33:02:13

It was considered an honour to be sacrificed. Volunteers among the Aztecs were chosen annually, they were admired, cared for, and given the best food.

 

 

00:33:17:22

But volunteers among the Aztecs were too few to satiate the Sun God. Therefore, they  constantly had to go to war to capture prisoners for sacrifice.

 

 

00:33:31:06

We are talking about large amounts of people, perhaps as many as 20,000 annually.

 

 

00:33:38:21

All of this to prevent total extinction in case the sun went out.

 

 

00:33:47:18

This practice probably made ​​it easier for the Spaniards to gain alliances when they arrived here.

 

 

00:33:55:01

They brought with them another religion where sacrifice plays a central role; Christianity.

 

 

00:34:06:04

But here it is God himself who volunteers to be sacrificed, through his son Jesus.

 

 

00:34:17:10

Often it is a combination of politics and beliefs that define the group one kills for or is killed for.

 

 

00:34:26:22

But sometimes, not everyone in the group agrees.

 

 

00:34:30:06

Come on all of you big strong men, Uncle Sam needs your help again, got himself in a terrible jam, way down beyond in Vietnam.  Put down your books…

 

 

00:34:39:22

The iconic movie Woodstock shows how opposition to the Vietnam War influenced many Americans during the Summer of 1969.

 

 

00:34:50:14

The artists sang out against the government, and the audience sang along.

 

 

00:34:54:09

...six, seven, open up the pearly gates.  Well there ain’t no time to wonder why, weehe, we’re all gonna die.

 

 

00:35:06:09

58,000 dead Americans, and millions of others dead. What did they win?  Did anything good come from it?

 

 

00:35:18:08

It may be difficult to think of a death as meaningless, just a cold fact to be accepted.

 

 

00:35:29:22

The terrorist attacks in New York on September 11th, 2001, killed a total of 2,993 people.

 

 

00:35:40:22

A conservative estimate suggests that the subsequent wars have cost 225,000 people their lives.

 

 

00:35:52:08

Some Americans believe that this war should have been avoided, even some of the victims and bereaved of 9/11.

 

 

00:36:02:12

The Rodriguez family lost their only son, Greg, who worked at the World Trade Center.

 

 

00:36:10:05

Of course I was angry that he had been killed, angry at anyone who would do something like that, attack people to make some point.

 

 

00:36:27:13

But I was also very angry at my government.

 

 

00:36:34:18

Freedom and democracy are under attack. This will be a monumental struggle of good versus evil, but good will prevail.

 

 

00:36:49:19

We weren’t surprised that our government took this approach, because there is a very long history of our government seeing any kind of political issue as one that can be resolved by our strength, the strength of our armed forces.

 

 

00:37:13:07

Just three days after losing their only son, the couple wrote a letter to the New York Times, entitled "Not in our son's name."

 

 

00:37:23:09

Here, they ask the authorities to refrain from going to war because of the attack.

 

 

00:37:29:01

They took away the stones.

 

 

00:37:32:04

I think he would have agreed with the idea that his death should not be revenged in the way that it was.

 

 

00:37:40:12

I think he would have looked at his killers in a similar way to the way in which we look at his killers, which was that it was people who are really driven by crazy political ideas, but that they looked a lot like Greg actually.

 

 

00:38:09:16

The dead can no longer speak for themselves.  And it can be in some people’s  interest to create a memory of them as good or bad, as saints or villains.

 

 

00:38:25:01

With the Vatican’s help, the body of Eva Perón was smuggled into a graveyard in Milan. Here her body remained for 16 years.

 

 

00:38:43:11

But at home in Argentina, she was not forgotten.

 

 

00:38:48:13

There was an increasing demand to know the whereabouts of Eva Perón’s body.

 

 

00:39:00:05

Juan was in exile in Madrid when the government of Argentina decided to return the body to him in an attempt to calm the situation.

 

 

00:39:11:14

Evita's body then remained for two years at the home of Juan and his new wife Isabel before they could finally could return from Spain to Argentina.

 

 

00:39:23:08

But there was a problem. After being moved around, sabotage, and being stored, the body was in bad condition. They needed help.

 

 

00:39:36:15

Domingo Tellechea is a successful restaurateur who now lives in Brazil, but in 1974 he lived in his homeland, Argentina.

 

 

00:39:47:20

There is political unrest in the country, and one day Domingo is approached by two men dressed in black.

 

 

00:39:55:00 SPANISH

It must have been three o’clock in the afternoon.

 

 

00:39:58:16 SPANISH

the front door moves and,

 

 

00:40:05:05 SPANISH

and two porters emerge,

 

 

00:40:08:15 SPANISH

people dressed in black, something like that and… they arrived by driving into the doors.

 

 

00:40:13:11 SPANISH

Directly, they say “Mr. Tellechea…”  They apparently knew me already.

 

 

00:40:21:23 SPANISH

I didn’t know them, but they knew me.

 

 

00:40:25:24 SPANISH

“Mr. Tellechea, you must come with us to the government’s court clerk,

 

 

00:40:31:24 SPANISH

because doctor Jorge Garrido and minister Ivanisevic are waiting for you.”

 

 

00:40:36:04 SPANISH

The moral obligation that Ivanisevic placed upon me,

 

 

00:40:41:01 SPANISH

he told me “You must restore the corpse of Eva Perón.”

 

 

00:40:49:19

Domingo tackles the restoration of Evita’s body as he would other works of art.

 

 

00:41:01:14

But he knows that this work is controversial.

 

 

00:41:09:00

It is laborious and time-consuming work due to the extent of the restoration required.

 

 

00:41:17:20

All this creates a lot of undesirable attention.

 

 

00:41:22:05 SPANISH

The consequences are the threats.

 

 

00:41:32:06

It was not unproblematic that Juan returned to Argentina with his new wife, and Evita’s body.

 

 

00:41:45:12

But Juan’s position in power was short-lived.

 

 

00:41:56:19

The following year he died of a heart attack and was displayed together with the newly restored Evita.

 

 

00:42:16:17

But they were not buried together. Juan’s new wife, Isabel, took over power, but she was never embraced by the people as Eva had been.

 

 

00:42:29:23

Felipe Pigna has written extensively about Evita and these historical events.

 

 

00:42:45:10 SPANISH

Here we have Evita.

 

 

00:42:51:03 SPANISH

Perón dies during the government’s time,

 

 

00:42:53:18 SPANISH

comes to power in ‘73 and dies in ‘74

 

 

00:42:57:02 SPANISH

His new wife comes to power, vice-president Isabel Perón.

 

 

00:43:01:14 SPANISH

A very bad government, destructive in fact.

 

 

00:43:07:08 SPANISH

It ends with a military coup, which becomes the famous dictatorship of general Videla.

 

 

00:43:16:13

For Domingo Tellechea, who had restored the body of Evita, life became very difficult.

 

 

00:43:26:09 SPANISH

The situation in Argentina was very difficult because they had the hidden forces.

 

 

00:43:45:00 SPANISH

They burned my car, and placed it outside my door,

 

 

00:43:52:15 SPANISH

I lived with a rifle that I had cut the barrel of.

 

 

00:43:59:18 SPANISH

It was a time of fear.

 

 

00:44:03:14 SPANISH

I had to get out of Argentina because I had two children that I lived alone with.

 

 

00:44:11:22 SPANISH

If they found me alone it wasn’t so bad, but I had a responsibility to my children and to my friends, because I was putting people in danger.

 

 

00:44:24:15

The solution for Tellechea was to flee to Brazil, where he was granted asylum, and he has lived there ever since.

 

 

00:44:34:07

And the body he had restored was once again a hot topic for the new leaders of Argentina.  What should they do now?

 

 

00:44:43:13 SPANISH

General Vidal and general Masera discuss. Masera was in charge of the navy.

 

 

00:44:47:22 SPANISH

And Masera suggest throwing her in the ocean.

 

 

00:44:50:15 SPANISH

Others suggest burning it. Others, dissolving it in acid.

 

 

00:44:55:07 SPANISH

The idea that eventually triumphs is to deliver it back to the family.

 

 

00:44:58:13 SPANISH

They commence with the final movement to the cemetery, Recoleta.

 

 

00:45:04:09 SPANISH

They place the body there, and a special process is done, with many plates of steel.

 

 

00:45:11:11 SPANISH

And the body is about 4-5 meters below earth in Recoleta, in the crypt,

 

 

00:45:17:22 SPANISH

practically impenetrable plates of steel, knowing that it is a body that could still be damaged by Evita’s enemies, still in the year 2013.

 

 

00:45:35:06

So, this is where the journey of Evita's body ends, but there are still two factions that are solidly opposed to each other.

 

 

00:45:43:21

And the significance given to Eva Perón has changed with the years, and could continue to do so.

 

 

00:45:56:13

So what about Vietnam? Here, there are millions of deaths that have different meanings for different people.

 

 

00:46:04:19 VIETNAMESE

We were all of course scared of dying,

 

 

00:46:07:21 VIETNAMESE

but we waged war to defend our country,

 

 

00:46:10:14 VIETNAMESE

to be able to be independent, for peace, and to achieve these goals

 

 

00:46:14:22 VIETNAMESE

we were prepared to die, and we accepted that.

 

 

00:46:21:01

But what version of the events that happened at Cu Chi do they give now?

 

 

00:46:27:03

The place has become a tourist magnet. People are now flocking to the battlegrounds where people were killed a few decades ago.

 

 

00:46:35:21 VIETNAMESE

This is where we caught the Americans.

 

 

00:46:38:21

These tourists are willing to pay to see and experience this.

 

 

00:46:48:19 VIETNAMESE

When there was a war and we made weapons, we made them to use in combat,

 

 

00:46:53:20 VIETNAMESE

but now they are like toys for regular people.

 

 

00:47:03:06

What does the individual and society as a whole take from such horrific acts? What do the dead and such places of horror mean to us as time goes by?

 

 

00:47:28:13 SWEDESH

This has been such a joyous place.

 

 

00:47:33:19 SWEDISH

Teenagers have been here and had a good time, politicians have been here and really been involved in this.

 

 

00:47:42:08 SWEDISH

Then the unthinkable happens. And I think that to just leave it, is a bit like giving up.

 

 

00:47:54:21 SWEDISH

You have to keep fighting and show that your are strong.

 

 

00:47:59:17 SWEDISH

They are trying to get activities back again, considering that there have been activities here for 60 years. So that is why we are here, so it can be used like it used to be.

 

 

00:48:11:01

Jørgen Frydnes is the project manager from Utøya, and like many he is facing two difficult questions. What is Utøya, and what should it be?

 

 

00:48:23:21

Utøya will always have a dual history after July 22nd. Our goal is to balance it, and to take care of the long history that Utøya has had with summer camps since the 50's.

 

 

00:48:38:05

So to keep the good old traditions, while balancing it with remembering and honouring those who died on July 22nd.

 

 

00:48:52:15

Making a decision as to when activities should return to Utøya it is a very important issue.

 

 

00:49:00:06

On the one hand we do not want to move forward too fast, on the other hand, it is an important factor that  an AUF generation, those who are active in the AUF, are often only active for a few years, so to maintain the continuity, bring forth the traditions,

 

 

00:49:19:12

the involvement that has been so important here at Utøya, it is important that we don’t wait too long either. So many of the discussions we have, much of what we work for, is to find the balance between the two aspects here.

 

 

00:49:33:18

Currently, we have planned that as of 2015, there will be a normalization of activities, the first Summer camp and other activities are planned.

 

 

00:49:48:11

Time, past and future, and memories that tie generations together. What should we keep with us from those who have passed away?

 

 

00:50:01:22

How would we like it to shape us and the community?

 

 

00:50:07:13

Many nice things were said in retrospect by everyone,

 

 

00:50:17:00

but I do not think it has any significance unless we continue to say it today.

 

 

00:50:21:01

After July 22nd, we discussed what kind of society we wanted, how we would manage to live together.

 

 

00:50:30:10

We don’t discuss that anymore, and that is perhaps one of the most important things we should discuss.

 

 

00:50:38:07

What kind of society we want has to do with what kind of life we wish for.

 

 

00:50:46:16

How do we think it is best to live together with others? Day after day, year after year.

 

 

00:50:57:03

We learn from those who went before us, and maybe someone will learn from us when we are gone.

 

 

00:51:15:15

Tonje has lost her mother, she knows that she may lose others close to her, before she herself dies.

 

 

00:51:32:12

How should we deal with this in the time we have?

 

 

00:51:36:24

How kind of life do we want those around us, and for those who come after us?

 

 

00:51:43:10

This is, and has been, the eternal question.

 

 

00:51:46:22

I had all these questions.

 

 

00:51:49:07

We have searched in science, religion, and philosophy.

 

 

00:51:56:12

Some have a practical attitude towards death, others are trying to portray the mysterious.

 

 

00:52:08:21

Each and every one of us must find our own way to live with death.

 

 

00:52:16:19

But it’s probably better to figure it out together.

 

 

END CREDITS