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(soft tones)

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(phone rings)

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Sherin speaking.
As-salaam alaykum.

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Hello. I'm looking for someone
who can help me divorce my ex-husband.

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We officially divorced three years ago -

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- but I've since struggled to get
an Islamic divorce.

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Shortly after we got married,
he became violent.

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He started to beat me, to control me -

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- and he decided
when I could come and go.

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- I'm sorry to hear that.
- Right.

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I've visited several imams
who have rejected my request.

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Unfortunately, many male imams remove
that right from the marriage contract -

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- or they don't help women obtain
an Islamic divorce -

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- because, as in your case,
the husband refuses to divorce.

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Yes, they advised me several times
to go back and live my life with him.

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Right, but that's not an option when you
experience violence in your marriage.

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So you need an Islamic divorce -

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- so that you can have a new life
and move on with your life.

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- Exactly.
- Yes.

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(disconnect tone)

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(waves lapping)

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(haunting music)

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(indicator clicks)

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My dream and vision is to start a mosque
with female imams, to recruit, train -

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- and educate a new generation
of female imams in Denmark.

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(traffic hums past)

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(car drives off)

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Women have to take the title,
because it will never be given to us.

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It isn't protected. If you lead prayer
or a congregation, you may be an imam.

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So I consider
the title of an imam as being -

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- a person,
a spiritual guide, a counsellor.

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And then, as more and more tasks
will fall on me in the mosque -

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- I will grow into my role,
if I'm good enough.

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Welcome, Sherin Khankan,
religion sociologist and writer.

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You're working on opening a mosque
for women with female imams.

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And welcome, Waseem Hussain,
Head of the Danish Islamic Centre.

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You can be Muslim, believe in the Quran
as the word of God -

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- and still have a reformatory approach
to its interpretation.

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Who decides
what you understand literally -

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- view as final and unchanging,
and what you should read metaphorically?

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It's not that one reading is wrong,
but that people read it wrong.

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(footsteps clicking)

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Can I ask you something? Do you think
the veil is mandatory, yes or no?

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Yes, I believe the veil is mandatory,
but I interpret the veil differently.

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- The veil to me is...
- An inner hijab?

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It is mandatory as it is for men to gaze
down when meeting women they don't know.

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You immediately turn to men and women,
every time.

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(laughing)

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- Yes, I do.
- Both immediately, every time.

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I have this family member
who couldn't care less about religion -

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- but then he said, "What's that
about female imams?" like it's bullshit.

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It's a statement, although he
doesn't care about practising religion.

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So my point is that,
to the majority of Muslims -

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- that's what it is. It's nonsense,
which you might already know.

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- I often say, "It's not a revolution."
- I disagree.

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It's going back to the source.

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You don't go back to the source,
you misunderstand it.

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I don't believe that. No.

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(gentle music)

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(water rushes)

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(birds tweet)
(dog barks)

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Imagine this: You have a mosque.

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One half is made up of people of colour.
The other half is white.

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They all walk in.
The white people sit in the main mosque.

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The people of colour sit on the balcony.
Only the white people can speak.

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We aren't talking about genders.
We're talking about black and white.

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The white people tell the black,
"You can all walk and teach freely -

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- you represent our congregation -

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- but you can't speak
at the lectern every Friday."

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"It's important. You can't do just that.
You have plenty of power and influence."

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If Allah and the Prophet say one thing,
we can't do something else.

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The Quran was written 1,400 years ago.
We can't change that.

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Does the Quran say
that only men can speak from there?

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No.

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We want to share a progressive,
spiritual interpretation of Islam -

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- where you reread the Quran in relation
to the society and times we live in -

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- where we give women
equal opportunities. That's the point.

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(people chattering)

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Hello, girls.

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- You did very well.
- Thank you.

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How about doing the khutbah speech
and leading prayer?

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Well, I'm thinking about
how I can contribute to the mosque.

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- Probably not like that...
- But you want to contribute?

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I would love to.

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- What are you studying?
- I study Marketing.

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We could definitely use
someone like you.

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(crows caw)

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We're starting an organisation
for Femimam...

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... and appointing a board -

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- and writing our manifest,
our articles.

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(laptop keys click)

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All the formalities.

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"Start volunteer organisation." Start.

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I'll say the word Hicham doesn't want me
to say: We need an Islamic reform.

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I'm just saying, we can end up
in more trouble than we...

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But it's called a reformation.

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The entire attempt
through the 17th and 18th century -

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- of modernising Islamic thinking
is called "the reform" in Arabic.

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- Islah.
- Did I use the word Islah?

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(computer pings)

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You did, and you specified
what it means in Arabic.

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That's what we talked about. If you talk
about reform, you need to be specific -

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- so it isn't the Western interpretation
of the reform.

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The purpose of the organisation.
"Our goal is to..."

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- It's to...
- "The purpose of the organisation..."

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- To establish a religious community?
- Well...

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To establish a forum for Danish Muslims.

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To establish female imams
is only part of it.

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- We need to...
- Establish a mosque?

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At the end of the day.

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(car hums along)

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"To establish a mosque
with a female, Muslim leadership"?

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Yes.

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- "To... give..."
- The forgotten women.

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"To give the forgotten women of Islam
their status back."

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Their rightful status,
which they should have had.

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"... women of Islam their status back."

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(quiet prayer)

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We need women to mobilise the same
as in any other area of education -

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- in Islamic subjects.
It's very important.

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But there is no reason to demand
that women therefore must become imams.

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You can be a lodestar and inspire men
and women without calling yourself imam.

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Okay. Let's hear
another question, please.

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I'd like to ask you what Muslim values
should be in the modern era?

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Okay. It's desirable at this time -

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- to dissociate ourselves
from the dogmatic approach -

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- and acknowledge that we're equal
and have equal opportunities.

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My role model Ibn Arabi tried to break with
this idea of rationalism within Islam -

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- where you try to conceive
of the Quran -

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- in terms of reason and logic alone.

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Ibn Arabi tries to devise
a methodology of the heart.

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He says, we also have to understand
the Quran with our hearts.

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Thank you.

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(applause)

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(people chatter)

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Thanks for now.

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You give evidence from the Quran
and distort it in your own favour.

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- The evidence is quite clear.
- No! You say women and men are equal.

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And therefore women should be imams?

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We need equal opportunities and rights -

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- which is why all you good men
should support female imams.

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Acceptance is one thing,
but it's not Islamically correct.

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(suspenseful music)

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Do you accept that men and women
have different duties -

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- that they're not the same,
that the man provides for the woman?

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- Just one question.
- Really? You've asked a hundred.

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It's 9:15 p.m.

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(dog barks)
(distant traffic)

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Today was clear proof
that you can't discuss Islam -

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- on your own terms.
They will always argue...

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... their interpretation of Islam
is the only one.

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I feel so trapped.

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Sitting in that lecture theatre,
I couldn't really be free.

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There's this atmosphere,
this consensus around...

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- It's a mental barrier.
- Yes, that encompasses everyone.

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It's like everybody is trapped.

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(gentle music)

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(car purrs along)

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I have always dreamt of a mosque
where I feel embraced and at home.

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My husband, my ex-husband,
supported the project -

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- but he didn't want his wife
to be an imam.

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So he gave me an ultimatum.

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I had to choose between my family
and my ambition with the mosque.

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To me, there was no choice.
It wasn't a choice.

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It would be like telling someone
not to think or dream.

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(kisses)
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00:16:39.219 --> 00:16:41.136
(ping)

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00:17:00.994 --> 00:17:03.827
(distant chatter)

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00:17:13.150 --> 00:17:20.100
I'm on my way to see the new mosque.
As-salaam alaykum.

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I believe Mecca is at 150.

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00:17:25.030 --> 00:17:30.100
- Is that right? This is south.
- Which way?

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I think it's... No, due south is there.

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So that way is more correct.

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- Would you take off your shoes?
- Sure, but I have to run.

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Bye.
There. Now it's ours.

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- It's so nice.
- We can teach here.

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- Right.
- Here's the mosque.

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- Isn't it great?
- It's more than I could have hoped for.

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Should I turn on the light?
And now look.

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(bell tower rings out)

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00:18:13.040 --> 00:18:15.110
- Think good thoughts.
- I'm thinking...

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Couscous?

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(laughing)

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00:18:19.020 --> 00:18:22.100
Did you just say that?

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- Quit it. I don't want it. Delete it.
- Can I see?

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- Come on.
- You laugh when you think of couscous.

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Go on, one more.

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There we go. That's it.

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We need to discuss views on fundamental
topics, including homosexuality -

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- gay marriage and interfaith marriage.

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00:18:55.230 --> 00:19:02.090
I'm willing to perform gay marriages.
I mean...

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00:19:02.130 --> 00:19:05.020
- But it's...
- Yes? But what?

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00:19:05.060 --> 00:19:12.010
It's very hard for me to find
theological arguments -

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00:19:12.050 --> 00:19:15.240
- in support of gay marriage.

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00:19:16.030 --> 00:19:23.060
I have no shortage of humane, moral
arguments in support of gay marriage.

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00:19:23.100 --> 00:19:26.080
So we should use those.

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00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:34.030
You can't understand the Quran
based solely on logic and reason.

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00:19:34.070 --> 00:19:37.140
If you do that, there will be paradoxes.

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00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:43.200
We should debate it and consider -

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- whether it's advisable
for our community -

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00:19:49.170 --> 00:19:53.070
- to go out with this issue
at this stage.

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It would create an outcry
at the start-up phase.

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00:20:00.150 --> 00:20:04.130
I think we need to choose our battles.

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00:20:04.170 --> 00:20:10.150
Don't start out by burning bridges.

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- Say your name slowly.
- Hicham Mouna.

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- Why did you join this mosque?
- Well, there's no single reason.

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00:20:26.040 --> 00:20:33.110
One of the primary drivers is that
I'm looking for a mosque community -

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00:20:33.150 --> 00:20:39.130
- with the same values
and interpretation of Islam as I have.

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00:20:39.170 --> 00:20:45.160
I've been here from the very start,
because I support Sherin's project.

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00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:48.170
You can't start this on your own.

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00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:54.080
It's not just about women's religion.
It's also changing men's understanding -

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00:20:54.120 --> 00:20:58.080
- of the faith that I subscribe to.

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00:20:59.150 --> 00:21:03.210
- Sherin, please come.
- I talked to the newspaper Politiken.

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00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.240
I told them that they made
a massive blunder -

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00:21:08.030 --> 00:21:13.210
- in writing that we hide our address
out of fear for reprisals.

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00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.210
We have to talk to the police about it.

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00:21:27.999 --> 00:21:29.242
(vacuum cleaner whines)

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00:21:29.242 --> 00:21:31.742
(drill whirs)

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00:21:32.040 --> 00:21:39.110
"Based on the above-mentioned facts,
we ask for police assistance..."

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00:21:39.150 --> 00:21:42.020
- Do you write it like this?
- No.

220
00:21:42.060 --> 00:21:45.110
"... police assistance at the mosque."

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00:21:45.150 --> 00:21:49.110
But they shouldn't stand guard -

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00:21:49.150 --> 00:21:54.040
- like they do at the synagogue.
I don't think that's necessary.

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00:21:54.080 --> 00:21:58.500
- We'll discuss that later.
- As long as they're in the area.

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00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:01.574
Sure.

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00:22:01.574 --> 00:22:02.974
(people chatter in distance)

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00:22:12.450 --> 00:22:17.450
(music plays)
(baby calls out)

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00:22:20.170 --> 00:22:27.030
Our legitimacy ultimately depends
on whether people come to us.

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00:22:28.170 --> 00:22:35.170
If people don't trust us,
we have no legitimacy.

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00:22:38.010 --> 00:22:44.000
What do I say out loud,
and what do I recite in my head?

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00:22:44.040 --> 00:22:50.050
The first thing is Allahu Akbar. Then
the Subhanaka is recited in private.

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00:22:50.090 --> 00:22:54.240
You read al-hamdu lil-lahi out loud,
and then the Maliki and so on.

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00:22:55.030 --> 00:22:57.120
That's very nice.

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00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:02.050
And some here haven't been
to prayer before.

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00:23:02.090 --> 00:23:07.200
- You should say everything out loud.
- Okay, then I'll prepare the...

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00:23:10.262 --> 00:23:12.595
(hammering)

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00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:17.240
Sherin is very quiet and
does things in the moment.

237
00:23:18.030 --> 00:23:25.070
I'm like, "We're going on TV, I need
to shower, and my shirt is wrinkled."

238
00:23:25.110 --> 00:23:28.200
She just sits there
with her book and her phone -

239
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
- while I'm taking
after my sailor family.

240
00:23:33.120 --> 00:23:36.240
I'm swearing, cursing and smoking.

241
00:23:37.030 --> 00:23:42.190
And still, we both have a drive
that makes us want the same things.

242
00:23:42.230 --> 00:23:45.060
Yes.

243
00:23:45.986 --> 00:23:48.236
(laughing)

244
00:23:49.858 --> 00:23:52.140
(gentle music)

245
00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:57.180
Today, the Mariam Mosque becomes
the first mosque in Scandinavia to...

246
00:23:57.220 --> 00:24:02.130
History is written today
in Copenhagen when...

247
00:24:02.170 --> 00:24:08.040
... call to Friday prayer led by women,
for women for the first time in...

248
00:24:08.080 --> 00:24:11.160
TV 2 News just texted me.

249
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:16.120
I saw you on TV this morning.
I think you're so cool.

250
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:20.220
That's so great to hear.
What's your name?

251
00:24:21.010 --> 00:24:25.170
- I'm Keld.
- Let me tell you. It takes time.

252
00:24:25.210 --> 00:24:31.060
There are pastors in the Church of
Denmark who still oppose female pastors.

253
00:24:31.100 --> 00:24:35.060
- That's how it is.
- It's like The Fishermen.

254
00:24:35.100 --> 00:24:38.110
- From Jutland?
- Yes. The women had veils on.

255
00:24:38.150 --> 00:24:41.110
- The fishermen.
- That's Denmark for you.

256
00:24:41.150 --> 00:24:45.010
- That's how it is. Have a nice day.
- You too.

257
00:24:51.220 --> 00:24:56.000
I understand why you would want
a female imam -

258
00:24:56.040 --> 00:25:01.130
- but why must the congregation
be female? Couldn't it be mixed?

259
00:25:01.170 --> 00:25:07.100
It could, but if we did a Friday prayer
for both men and women -

260
00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:13.060
- it would be much more controversial.
We now have a firm theological basis.

261
00:25:13.100 --> 00:25:18.040
Three in four Islamic schools of thought
recognise female imams for women.

262
00:25:19.210 --> 00:25:25.090
And you're the woman leading the prayer,
Saliha Marie Fetteh. Good morning.

263
00:25:25.130 --> 00:25:28.200
- Good morning.
- What's your main message?

264
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:32.040
It is that Muslim women aren't just -

265
00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:37.090
- a horde of oppressed individuals.

266
00:25:37.130 --> 00:25:43.050
We're also strong and educated women.
We've always been.

267
00:25:43.090 --> 00:25:49.130
I believe that whatever a Danish pastor
can do, a Muslim woman can too -

268
00:25:49.170 --> 00:25:53.160
- in the context of Islam.

269
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.160
So it starts with...

270
00:25:57.217 --> 00:25:59.190
(car hums along)

271
00:25:59.190 --> 00:26:02.160
Remember to speak up.

272
00:26:07.100 --> 00:26:09.120
I'm stuck again.

273
00:26:09.160 --> 00:26:15.020
Scholars have done this for many years.
Praying at home is different.

274
00:26:15.060 --> 00:26:18.040
Didn't you practise this?

275
00:26:18.080 --> 00:26:21.180
- Well, I only pray to myself.
- Right.

276
00:26:21.220 --> 00:26:26.180
- You didn't practice doing it out loud?
- No, I didn't.

277
00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:31.140
It's my own fault, of course.
I didn't think about it.

278
00:26:31.180 --> 00:26:36.150
It's just something you do,
but when I open my mouth... You know?

279
00:26:44.377 --> 00:00:00.000
(gentle music)

280
00:26:51.070 --> 00:26:53.140
- It's like an exam.
- All right.

281
00:26:53.180 --> 00:26:57.190
How about you do the speech
and I lead the prayer?

282
00:26:57.230 --> 00:27:02.060
- Let's just say that.
- You'll do it next time.

283
00:27:27.190 --> 00:27:34.160
- I'm an amateur, so please forgive me.
- We both are. It will be all right.

284
00:27:40.221 --> 00:27:43.221
(leads the prayers)

285
00:28:17.788 --> 00:28:22.788
(soft music)
(recites quietly)

286
00:28:57.580 --> 00:28:59.497
(ping)

287
00:29:05.373 --> 00:29:08.373
(suspenseful music)

288
00:29:12.553 --> 00:29:14.470
(ping)

289
00:29:26.171 --> 00:29:28.308
(ping)

290
00:29:28.308 --> 00:29:30.762
(ping)

291
00:29:30.762 --> 00:29:32.679
(ping)

292
00:29:48.930 --> 00:29:51.763
(distant chatter)

293
00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:08.110
If you could please tell me about your
life before you decided to run away.

294
00:30:08.150 --> 00:30:14.040
Before I ran away, it had been going on
for three to four years.

295
00:30:14.080 --> 00:30:17.090
- So you were roughly...
- 14 or 15.

296
00:30:17.130 --> 00:30:22.010
- So that's when it started?
- That's when it got serious.

297
00:30:22.050 --> 00:30:26.090
There were rumours
that I'd been with a lot of boys.

298
00:30:26.130 --> 00:30:29.160
My dad had beaten me before,
but not like this.

299
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:37.020
- How did he beat you?
- He had a thick cane.

300
00:30:37.060 --> 00:30:41.210
I think he's broken two of them
while beating me.

301
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:47.170
Besides that, he kicked and punched me -

302
00:30:47.210 --> 00:30:52.170
- and he pulled my hair a lot,
because I have long hair.

303
00:30:52.210 --> 00:30:59.000
At the end of September,
I actually heard my mom and dad talk -

304
00:30:59.040 --> 00:31:04.210
- about a date, guests and a dress.
It had something to do with a wedding.

305
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:08.110
So I thought we were going to a wedding.

306
00:31:08.150 --> 00:31:15.000
- So you find out it's your wedding?
- Yes, after having asked my mum a lot.

307
00:31:15.040 --> 00:31:22.110
She says, "Actually, it's your wedding."
They arranged my wedding behind my back.

308
00:31:22.150 --> 00:31:26.150
I already had a boyfriend,
so I didn't know what to do.

309
00:31:26.190 --> 00:31:30.170
So you had a boyfriend,
and you were in love?

310
00:31:32.020 --> 00:31:37.230
So you've come here to have an
Islamic wedding, to put it behind you?

311
00:31:38.020 --> 00:31:42.030
I've contacted a lot of imams
who didn't want to do it.

312
00:31:42.070 --> 00:31:47.090
- Why did they reject you?
- Because my family won't participate.

313
00:31:47.130 --> 00:31:53.020
Based on what you've told me today,
I can perform an Islamic wedding.

314
00:31:53.060 --> 00:31:55.140
- You can?
- Yes.

315
00:31:55.180 --> 00:31:59.090
I'm very grateful. I'm so happy.

316
00:31:59.130 --> 00:32:03.080
Your father hasn't lived up
to his responsibilities.

317
00:32:22.010 --> 00:32:27.230
For me, Islam is servanthood.
That's the imams most important job -

318
00:32:28.020 --> 00:32:31.070
- to serve their community.

319
00:32:31.110 --> 00:32:35.130
If you can't understand and help
the people who come to you -

320
00:32:35.170 --> 00:32:39.190
- then you don't fulfil your role
as an "imama".

321
00:32:51.230 --> 00:32:57.120
- Fatima isn't coming.
- She's taking her driver's license.

322
00:32:58.120 --> 00:33:05.150
We should have prayer leader profiles,
like at that mosque in Los Angeles.

323
00:33:05.190 --> 00:33:12.020
- I think that's a good idea.
- Who here wants to be on the website?

324
00:33:14.090 --> 00:33:17.200
If we show our faces,
more people will follow.

325
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:20.020
- Will you do it?
- Of course.

326
00:33:20.060 --> 00:33:23.210
- You will without the picture?
- Yes, to begin with.

327
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:28.100
- And you? Without the picture?
- Yes.

328
00:33:32.758 --> 00:33:36.175
(distant traffic sounds)

329
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:42.180
Hello.

330
00:33:42.220 --> 00:33:47.080
- You're going to the conference?
- I'm a speaker.

331
00:33:47.120 --> 00:33:50.000
- Just report your name.
- Thank you.

332
00:33:54.526 --> 00:33:58.000
(muted conversations)

333
00:33:57.060 --> 00:34:00.240
Islamism cannot be seen as one thing.

334
00:34:01.030 --> 00:34:06.050
I try to find a way to study dangerous
subjects in a less dangerous way.

335
00:34:06.090 --> 00:34:09.110
Let me take the example of Islamism.

336
00:34:09.150 --> 00:34:15.050
Because Islamism is seen as the greatest
threat to Western democracies.

337
00:34:15.090 --> 00:34:21.210
There are reformed Islamists,
radical Islamists and Jihadists -

338
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:25.010
- who use violence as a method.

339
00:34:25.050 --> 00:34:32.120
If we know this, if we try to nuance the
debate, the threat is less of a threat.

340
00:34:32.160 --> 00:34:34.180
Thank you.

341
00:34:34.258 --> 00:00:00.000
(applause)

342
00:34:39.180 --> 00:34:45.110
I'm happy that you want to save all
Muslims around the world. What a relief!

343
00:34:45.150 --> 00:34:51.170
It's true that Christians have been
a threat on this planet historically -

344
00:34:51.210 --> 00:34:57.100
- but today the threat comes from Islam,
not from the Christians.

345
00:34:57.140 --> 00:35:04.040
I don't agree. That's propaganda.
I disagree.

346
00:35:04.080 --> 00:35:08.170
You encourage Muslims
and the Islamic propaganda -

347
00:35:08.210 --> 00:35:12.190
- to see themselves as victims.
We're the victims.

348
00:35:16.030 --> 00:35:19.050
- Bye-bye.
- Bye-bye.

349
00:35:20.895 --> 00:00:00.000
(suspenseful music)

350
00:35:38.373 --> 00:35:43.373
(muted chatter)
(footsteps)

351
00:35:46.080 --> 00:35:51.100
I was on the train, sitting across
from a young couple with children.

352
00:35:51.140 --> 00:35:58.210
He might have been from Somalia,
and she was of Asian descent.

353
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:01.060
- And she was...
- Are you coming?

354
00:36:01.100 --> 00:36:04.180
... covered entirely in black.

355
00:36:04.220 --> 00:36:09.210
The only thing missing was the niqab.
He was wearing a long white dress.

356
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:17.000
The whole train stared at them.
I feel sorry for their children.

357
00:36:17.040 --> 00:36:23.140
The boy was old enough to understand
that they were drawing attention.

358
00:36:19.612 --> 00:36:21.945
(footsteps)

359
00:36:23.180 --> 00:36:28.090
It's a pity. It really is.

360
00:36:28.130 --> 00:36:34.120
- It's a pitiful world we live in.
- Right, and that boy...

361
00:36:34.160 --> 00:36:39.120
I mean... I need some coffee now.

362
00:36:39.160 --> 00:36:41.294
Would you prepare the tea and coffee?

363
00:36:41.294 --> 00:36:44.127
(doorbell chimes)

364
00:36:48.100 --> 00:36:54.060
In the Danish Islamic Centre,
there are... Was it three women?

365
00:36:54.100 --> 00:36:57.000
They're regulars. The rest are men.

366
00:36:57.040 --> 00:37:00.170
- Most women don't...
- You should be proud.

367
00:37:00.210 --> 00:37:05.040
There are many women here
compared to other places.

368
00:37:05.080 --> 00:37:09.240
- Where are they today?
- Maybe they're ill or at work.

369
00:37:10.030 --> 00:37:12.210
Right. Sure.

370
00:37:23.412 --> 00:37:25.912
(soft music)

371
00:37:55.240 --> 00:00:00.000
Oh, sweetie.

372
00:37:59.200 --> 00:38:06.140
Okay, so whose hand
will you be holding tonight?

373
00:38:08.150 --> 00:38:13.120
- Baba's.
- Okay.

374
00:38:13.160 --> 00:38:20.120
You'll be playing football tomorrow,
and I'll see you in the morning.

375
00:38:21.734 --> 00:38:24.484
(dishes clatter)

376
00:38:23.070 --> 00:38:26.160
- You want shawarma?
- Yes, please.

377
00:38:26.200 --> 00:38:31.100
- Do you want the mushrooms?
- No, thank you.

378
00:38:31.140 --> 00:38:34.130
You're eating my food?

379
00:38:34.170 --> 00:38:39.240
- Don't you like this?
- Come over to your mum.

380
00:38:41.150 --> 00:38:44.240
Feminism is believing
men and women are equal.

381
00:38:45.030 --> 00:38:49.030
And feminism is also going up
against the male majority -

382
00:38:49.070 --> 00:38:52.180
- and siding with women instead.

383
00:38:52.220 --> 00:38:58.050
How do you feel about me starting
a mosque with female imams?

384
00:38:58.090 --> 00:39:03.050
I think it's wonderful.
It's a great thing to do.

385
00:39:03.090 --> 00:39:08.030
But you shouldn't preach
without knowledge -

386
00:39:08.070 --> 00:39:12.000
- because when you go that far...

387
00:39:12.040 --> 00:39:15.220
When you go so far
as to create a new Islam -

388
00:39:16.010 --> 00:39:21.000
- it can create an anger -

389
00:39:21.050 --> 00:39:26.070
- because it's a new Islam,
so that no one accepts it.

390
00:39:26.110 --> 00:39:30.220
You believe in your project,
so that's what you should do -

391
00:39:31.010 --> 00:39:34.170
- but it demands great knowledge
about Islam.

392
00:39:34.210 --> 00:39:40.240
- You don't think I have the knowledge?
- You need to expand it.

393
00:39:44.459 --> 00:39:47.376
(children playing)

394
00:39:52.376 --> 00:39:55.043
(gentle music)

395
00:40:03.040 --> 00:40:08.170
My father is Muslim
and a Syrian refugee.

396
00:40:08.210 --> 00:40:14.080
My mother is Christian
and an immigrant from Finland.

397
00:40:22.100 --> 00:40:27.050
My parents have always said
that love comes before dogmas -

398
00:40:27.090 --> 00:40:34.030
- that respect comes before love,
or rather that respect is love.

399
00:40:34.070 --> 00:40:39.240
Coming from a strong family
with a strong sense of love -

400
00:40:40.030 --> 00:40:44.100
- is extremely positive,
and it builds you up -

401
00:40:44.140 --> 00:40:50.090
- but at the same time
it's an eternal reminder that I failed.

402
00:40:57.050 --> 00:41:04.060
I'm starting to accept that you can have
a good family even after a divorce.

403
00:41:05.230 --> 00:41:12.060
It's the price I'm paying
for the fight I'm leading.

404
00:41:26.090 --> 00:41:33.080
The Quran states that a Muslim man
may marry a Jew or a Christian.

405
00:41:33.120 --> 00:41:40.120
That is indisputable. It's how we see
Muslim men marrying Christian women.

406
00:41:40.160 --> 00:41:44.080
I'm a product of that.
My dad is a Muslim from Syria.

407
00:41:44.120 --> 00:41:48.130
My mum is a Christian from Finland.
She's still Christian.

408
00:41:49.170 --> 00:41:56.200
However, it doesn't state that a Muslim
woman can marry a Jew or a Christian -

409
00:41:56.240 --> 00:42:00.230
- but the Quran also doesn't state
that she can't.

410
00:42:01.020 --> 00:42:07.230
The Quran does state that men and women
should marry people who believe in God.

411
00:42:08.020 --> 00:42:12.200
That is what we can hold on to.

412
00:42:22.150 --> 00:42:26.150
- I'll close the window.
- Yes.

413
00:42:27.469 --> 00:42:28.006
(window clunks shut)

414
00:42:28.060 --> 00:42:31.060
To put it briefly -

415
00:42:31.100 --> 00:42:36.180
- we want to be able to stay together
and get married.

416
00:42:36.220 --> 00:42:44.010
But the problem with that is
that I'm Muslim and he's Catholic -

417
00:42:44.050 --> 00:42:49.050
- and most other imams
can't come to terms with that.

418
00:42:49.090 --> 00:42:53.180
So I was told
that it would never work out.

419
00:42:53.220 --> 00:42:56.180
- That's where we stand.
- Right.

420
00:42:56.220 --> 00:43:00.230
How much does having
an Islamic marriage mean to you?

421
00:43:01.020 --> 00:43:06.000
Enough that we won't stay together
if it's not going to happen.

422
00:43:06.040 --> 00:43:09.130
- So it's very important to you?
- Yes, it is.

423
00:43:09.170 --> 00:43:15.170
You need to understand
that this isn't conventional.

424
00:43:15.210 --> 00:43:19.090
What we do is unconventional.

425
00:43:19.130 --> 00:43:25.110
The consensus among Muslims, in the four
Sunni schools of jurisprudence -

426
00:43:25.150 --> 00:43:30.200
- is that a Muslim woman
can't marry a non-Muslim man.

427
00:43:30.240 --> 00:43:36.170
So you need to be ready
and prepared for hostility.

428
00:43:36.210 --> 00:43:38.240
I've already experienced it.

429
00:43:39.030 --> 00:43:44.180
People will say it's not legitimate,
that it's not possible -

430
00:43:44.220 --> 00:43:50.230
- that you're not rightfully married.
You will meet these kinds of resistance.

431
00:43:52.229 --> 00:43:55.021
(distant traffic sounds)

432
00:43:55.210 --> 00:43:58.170
LOVE IS A HUMAN RIGHT

433
00:43:58.210 --> 00:44:03.050
BUT MANY OF OUR YOUNG
DON'T CHOOSE WHO THEY MARRY

434
00:44:09.850 --> 00:44:12.517
(gentle music)

435
00:44:30.190 --> 00:44:34.180
Peace be upon you.
God bless you and show you mercy.

436
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.220
You both stand before me -

437
00:44:38.010 --> 00:44:42.150
- not only marrying each other,
but also marrying -

438
00:44:42.190 --> 00:44:48.240
- two newly united families
with all that this implies.

439
00:44:49.030 --> 00:44:51.200
You are from different cultures -

440
00:44:51.240 --> 00:44:58.030
- but you share a bond of love
with each other and your creator.

441
00:44:58.070 --> 00:45:03.020
I have seen marriages collapse
as people tried to change one another -

442
00:45:03.060 --> 00:45:08.110
- or when they demanded and believed
their partner should make them happy.

443
00:45:08.150 --> 00:45:14.050
They shouldn't. We must all find
happiness, peace and love in ourselves.

444
00:45:13.618 --> 00:45:14.059
(gentle music)

445
00:45:14.590 --> 00:45:19.170
You show us all
that you see diversity as a blessing -

446
00:45:19.210 --> 00:45:23.200
- and a path to your own transformation.

447
00:45:36.230 --> 00:45:39.240
You're now married. Congratulations.

448
00:45:39.272 --> 00:00:00.000
(applause)

449
00:45:48.992 --> 00:45:50.222
(hens clucking)

450
00:45:50.222 --> 00:00:00.000
(dog barks)
(birds tweeting)

451
00:45:54.060 --> 00:45:57.190
I feel like I've travelled the world.

452
00:45:57.230 --> 00:46:01.080
- It feels like...
- She isn't here yet.

453
00:46:03.230 --> 00:46:07.070
I slept maybe four hours tonight.

454
00:46:09.020 --> 00:46:15.070
- Don't you think this is big?
- It hasn't really dawned on me yet.

455
00:46:27.471 --> 00:46:30.054
(water gushes)

456
00:46:36.442 --> 00:46:35.023
(children play)

457
00:46:35.230 --> 00:46:40.150
- Three, two, one, go!
- Watch out, Halima.

458
00:46:45.348 --> 00:46:47.220
(child calls out)

459
00:46:47.220 --> 00:46:53.040
To me, the right to build our intimate
relationships is fundamental -

460
00:46:53.080 --> 00:46:57.100
- and it's the basis
of every other aspect of our lives.

461
00:46:57.140 --> 00:47:02.130
The odds of my daughters falling in love
with a non-Muslim is huge.

462
00:47:02.170 --> 00:47:08.240
We live in Europe. So that's where
the revolution should begin.

463
00:47:14.635 --> 00:47:17.552
(children playing)

464
00:47:20.140 --> 00:47:26.100
In our group there are different opinions
on interfaith marriage.

465
00:47:26.140 --> 00:47:32.160
Some think it should be allowed, but
that we shouldn't discuss it publicly.

466
00:47:32.200 --> 00:47:37.170
But it's hard for me
not to speak about it openly.

467
00:47:38.831 --> 00:47:42.164
(vacuum cleaner whines)

468
00:47:44.240 --> 00:47:49.230
Some imams have warned women
against going to our mosque.

469
00:47:50.020 --> 00:47:53.140
- In Denmark?
- Yes.

470
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:00.010
We have to deal with that as well.

471
00:48:00.010 --> 00:48:02.593
(phone rings)

472
00:48:02.593 --> 00:00:00.000
Someone's at the door.

473
00:48:03.190 --> 00:48:07.080
- Will someone open?
- Yes, they will.

474
00:48:08.747 --> 00:48:13.747
(prayer is sung)
(distant chatter)

475
00:48:41.697 --> 00:48:44.197
(soft music)

476
00:48:53.120 --> 00:48:58.080
Samira and Thomas are getting married
on the seventh of April.

477
00:48:58.120 --> 00:49:05.010
Another interfaith marriage. They
keep pouring in. Incredible, isn't it?

478
00:49:09.077 --> 00:49:11.021
(phone rings)

479
00:49:11.210 --> 00:49:16.020
- Hello, Christoffer.
- Christoffer is a journalist.

480
00:49:16.060 --> 00:49:22.050
He's doing a programme
on faith and society.

481
00:49:22.090 --> 00:49:25.120
- On what channel?
- Public radio, P1.

482
00:49:26.138 --> 00:00:00.000
(phone rings)

483
00:49:26.220 --> 00:49:32.210
Now I have a couples session
to talk about their upcoming wedding.

484
00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:34.200
Come in.

485
00:49:35.992 --> 00:49:38.825
(distant chatter)

486
00:49:40.140 --> 00:49:46.150
And then he asked them, "Why
did you choose to get married here?"

487
00:49:46.190 --> 00:49:53.100
So they told him, "It's the only place
we can marry. We've been searching."

488
00:49:53.140 --> 00:49:57.110
So he's recorded that
for the radio programme.

489
00:49:57.150 --> 00:50:01.010
Did they mention interfaith marriages?

490
00:50:01.050 --> 00:50:08.120
That was the theme. Later, they talked
about how special these marriages are.

491
00:50:08.160 --> 00:50:12.210
Then he asked Sherin if they
could talk about it on the radio.

492
00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:17.170
That will bring us another ten marriages
in a few days.

493
00:50:17.210 --> 00:50:23.040
I'm comfortable with it, but that's
because it's so natural to me.

494
00:50:23.080 --> 00:50:30.110
But it depends on whether it's a Muslim
man or a non-Muslim with a Muslim woman.

495
00:50:30.150 --> 00:50:32.240
They're interested in the latter.

496
00:50:33.030 --> 00:50:37.220
One strategy could be to not make it
so sensational, but just say -

497
00:50:38.010 --> 00:50:43.230
- that it's quite natural, that we
perform interfaith marriages both ways.

498
00:50:44.020 --> 00:50:48.180
I think we should discuss it
at the board meeting on Tuesday.

499
00:50:48.220 --> 00:50:51.030
- I think so.
- Let's do that.

500
00:50:51.003 --> 00:50:52.007
(bell tolls)
(car horn)

501
00:50:52.070 --> 00:50:56.190
I think it's too big
to just decide on it right now.

502
00:50:56.230 --> 00:51:00.070
Yes, you're right.

503
00:51:06.860 --> 00:51:08.777
(ping)

504
00:51:12.127 --> 00:51:14.044
(ping)

505
00:51:18.254 --> 00:51:20.921
(distant siren)

506
00:51:26.811 --> 00:51:29.561
(lively chatter)

507
00:51:27.020 --> 00:51:30.000
I'm sorry.

508
00:51:32.060 --> 00:51:36.090
- I'm being interviewed.
- Yes, come with me.

509
00:51:47.050 --> 00:51:50.200
They have been busy
since the mosque opened a year ago.

510
00:51:50.240 --> 00:51:57.170
They have Friday prayer, conversions,
marriages, counselling and much more.

511
00:51:57.210 --> 00:52:04.060
BBC has rated you one of the 100
most influential global female pioneers.

512
00:52:04.100 --> 00:52:07.220
- I'm grateful to have you here, Sherin.
- Thank you

513
00:52:08.010 --> 00:52:13.120
You're doing something new,
marriage between Muslims and Christians.

514
00:52:13.160 --> 00:52:18.060
We called some
of the Muslim communities -

515
00:52:18.100 --> 00:52:24.000
- and nobody wanted to talk about it
or be involved in it.

516
00:52:24.040 --> 00:52:30.230
It's about perspective. Few mosques
worldwide perform interfaith marriages -

517
00:52:31.020 --> 00:52:37.140
- but the Quran states men and women
should find partners who believe in God.

518
00:52:37.180 --> 00:52:40.150
It's the first time
you talk out about this.

519
00:52:40.190 --> 00:52:47.240
You've had your thoughts
about how to bring this to the public.

520
00:52:48.030 --> 00:52:51.070
What about the possible reactions?

521
00:52:51.110 --> 00:52:56.160
- I'll always focus on the positive.
- Right.

522
00:52:56.200 --> 00:53:00.130
When people ask me,
that's what I emphasise.

523
00:53:00.170 --> 00:53:05.040
- I wish you the best.
- Thank you.

524
00:53:11.677 --> 00:00:00.000
(airplane whines overhead)

525
00:53:19.568 --> 00:53:21.985
(ping, ping)

526
00:53:25.063 --> 00:53:26.980
(ping)

527
00:53:31.606 --> 00:53:34.736
(gentle music)
(traffic hisses)

528
00:53:34.736 --> 00:53:36.653
(ping)

529
00:53:49.377 --> 00:53:52.710
(Muslim call to prayer)

530
00:54:07.378 --> 00:54:09.295
(ping)

531
00:54:19.250 --> 00:54:21.833
(water hisses)

532
00:54:28.070 --> 00:54:32.210
"Sherin Khankan,
you've violated every rule of Islam."

533
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:40.060
"Now you make an unlawful misstatement,
something Allah has prohibited."

534
00:54:40.100 --> 00:54:46.210
"You should know Allah's resentment
and fear his punishment -

535
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:51.170
- if you do not retract
your statements and deeds."

536
00:54:51.210 --> 00:54:59.030
"If I were you, I would return to Islam
and do the tawbah before it's too late."

537
00:55:03.200 --> 00:55:05.022
Okay.

538
00:55:12.170 --> 00:55:17.010
Something's going on in our group.

539
00:54:29.260 --> 00:54:33.093
(speaks in foreign language)

540
00:55:17.801 --> 00:55:19.718
(ping)

541
00:55:40.130 --> 00:55:45.190
I'm trying to figure out
what I'm doing wrong.

542
00:55:45.230 --> 00:55:53.000
Sometimes, it all happens so fast.
I have a thought, and I run with it.

543
00:55:53.040 --> 00:55:56.110
I forget to include others.

544
00:55:56.150 --> 00:56:02.210
I need to work on including everyone
and be a better listener.

545
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:09.180
I think that's it.
I just have to put it into words.

546
00:56:33.962 --> 00:56:37.018
(gentle murmuring)

547
00:56:37.180 --> 00:56:44.020
We believe that this is not only about
Islamic feminism. It's about knowledge.

548
00:56:44.060 --> 00:56:48.040
The one with knowledge
can disseminate the Islamic message.

549
00:56:48.080 --> 00:56:51.120
What does it mean to have
female imams in the mosque?

550
00:56:51.160 --> 00:56:55.180
It has meaning. What happens
in the mosque goes beyond it.

551
00:56:55.220 --> 00:57:02.180
It affects family structures, it affects
societies and also the interpretation.

552
00:57:02.220 --> 00:57:04.240
Thank you so much.

553
00:57:04.024 --> 00:57:07.279
(applause)

554
00:57:08.200 --> 00:57:12.070
I just want to say something
about what Sherin said.

555
00:57:12.110 --> 00:57:15.080
Why must Sherin justify her existence?

556
00:57:15.120 --> 00:57:22.010
Why must women explain why they want to
be something besides a mother or wife?

557
00:57:22.050 --> 00:57:27.100
People saying we're equal means nothing
if women have to spend this long -

558
00:57:27.140 --> 00:57:29.190
- justifying what they do.

559
00:57:31.003 --> 00:57:33.586
(alarm sounds)

560
00:57:35.190 --> 00:57:40.160
So now it's on the social media -

561
00:57:40.200 --> 00:57:44.070
- and our board is very ambivalent.

562
00:57:44.110 --> 00:57:49.090
- Some of them are very angry with me.
- Because you talked about it?

563
00:57:49.130 --> 00:57:53.200
Yes, because they said we needed
a strategy, we needed to be ready.

564
00:57:53.240 --> 00:57:58.160
- We agreed we wouldn't go out with it.
- It would come out at some point.

565
00:57:58.200 --> 00:58:03.200
But I get that you would need a strategy
to deal with people's reactions.

566
00:58:03.240 --> 00:58:09.100
So you wouldn't be concerned
with the comments on social media?

567
00:58:09.140 --> 00:58:14.190
There are 17,000 emails sent to me,
calling for me to be sacked.

568
00:58:14.230 --> 00:58:17.240
- Why?
- Because of who I was.

569
00:58:18.030 --> 00:58:21.020
A Muslim man with influence and power.

570
00:58:21.060 --> 00:58:24.120
- Was that the right wing?
- It was all the right wing.

571
00:58:24.160 --> 00:58:30.030
If you listen to the people who have
no justification for what they say -

572
00:58:30.070 --> 00:58:37.020
- then you're not going to be able
to do your job. So close your ears.

573
00:58:38.624 --> 00:58:41.041
(soft music)

574
00:58:51.905 --> 00:58:54.778
(wings flap gently by)

575
00:58:54.778 --> 00:58:56.695
(ping)

576
00:59:18.070 --> 00:59:23.040
I couldn't sleep at all after reading
the message from Saliha.

577
00:59:23.080 --> 00:59:27.180
It really got to me, honestly.

578
00:59:27.431 --> 00:59:36.018
(switches click)
(door unlocks)

579
00:59:36.180 --> 00:59:41.220
Who would like to begin?
Do you want to begin Hicham?

580
00:59:42.010 --> 00:59:47.200
- Where from?
- All that has happened since last time.

581
00:59:49.210 --> 00:59:56.210
I don't know what to say. I haven't had
any issues with interfaith marriages.

582
00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:02.210
I know there are different opinions,
both religious and personal opinions.

583
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:07.200
The issue is that we agree on something,
and then people do as they please.

584
01:00:07.240 --> 01:00:13.070
If that doesn't change,
then I quit right now. I'm tired.

585
01:00:13.110 --> 01:00:17.010
I've had mixed feelings
about keeping it secret.

586
01:00:17.050 --> 01:00:22.030
It bothers me to do something
that I can't talk about.

587
01:00:22.070 --> 01:00:28.249
So I've been waiting for others
to be ready to put this out there.

588
01:00:29.030 --> 01:00:35.180
And that's no excuse. I'm just trying
to explain how it came to this.

589
01:00:35.220 --> 01:00:41.240
When we have these sensitive topics,
even if we agree on them internally -

590
01:00:42.030 --> 01:00:46.180
- we hold meetings, make a plan.
It's as simple as that.

591
01:00:46.220 --> 01:00:50.140
It's not that complicated.
That's all I want.

592
01:00:50.180 --> 01:00:54.140
We agreed on this a week ago.
We were sitting out there.

593
01:00:54.180 --> 01:00:59.160
We agreed that we couldn't make
a decision before the meeting.

594
01:00:59.200 --> 01:01:06.180
Five days later, I see it on the news.
That's not all right.

595
01:01:06.220 --> 01:01:13.050
I don't want that, no matter whether
we have the right arguments or not.
`
01:01:31.238 --> 01:01:33.738
(soft music)

596
01:01:13.090 --> 01:01:20.160
The problem is that we're not acting
like a community.

597
01:01:36.983 --> 00:00:00.000
(dog barks)
(far off traffic hums)

598
01:01:46.558 --> 01:01:49.966
(whistle blows)
(general hubbub)

599
01:01:49.966 --> 01:01:52.716
(people talking)

600
01:01:53.110 --> 01:01:57.030
Here. Take this please.

601
01:02:00.312 --> 01:02:01.001
(excited chatter)

602
01:02:01.010 --> 01:02:03.180
- Quit it, honey.
- Give it to me!

603
01:02:03.220 --> 01:02:07.080
- Why?
- Because it's too much.

604
01:02:07.120 --> 01:02:10.190
Would you like to read
my speech out loud?

605
01:02:10.230 --> 01:02:17.060
"We all long to be part of a community."

606
01:02:17.100 --> 01:02:23.010
- "It is the highest..." What's that?
- Longing.

607
01:02:23.050 --> 01:02:26.060
"The story of the family.
The family is..."

608
01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:26.010
(gentle music) (train hums)

609
01:02:26.100 --> 01:02:31.050
- When there's a full stop, you pause.
- I know, Mum.

610
01:02:31.090 --> 01:02:33.170
- "The family..."
- I know, Mum!

611
01:02:33.210 --> 01:02:38.150
- "The family is our earliest..."
- Memory.

612
01:02:38.190 --> 01:02:45.060
"... and the most important experience
of community."

613
01:02:53.070 --> 01:02:57.040
Many see marriage as a test from Allah -

614
01:02:57.080 --> 01:03:02.090
- but it isn't for God to know us.
It is for us to know ourselves.

615
01:03:02.130 --> 01:03:06.180
If we do wrong by our partner,
we must seek forgiveness from them -

616
01:03:06.220 --> 01:03:09.040
- not from Allah.

617
01:03:09.080 --> 01:03:16.150
The path to Allah shows itself when we
come together in commitment and trust -

618
01:03:16.190 --> 01:03:20.180
- and not least
when we trust in ourselves.

619
01:03:20.220 --> 01:03:26.110
For when we hurt others,
we hurt ourselves even more.

620
01:03:27.230 --> 01:03:33.050
I hereby pronounce you husband and wife.

621
01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:41.000
To be loved unconditionally...

622
01:03:41.040 --> 01:03:47.110
I've experienced that with my parents,
but never in a marriage.

623
01:03:48.220 --> 01:03:53.020
Unconditional love...

624
01:03:56.050 --> 01:04:00.060
... where you can be your true self -

625
01:04:00.100 --> 01:04:06.120
- and be valued for who you are.

626
01:04:06.160 --> 01:04:12.170
I've always had to balance things -

627
01:04:12.210 --> 01:04:17.060
- and unite things
that were impossible to unite.

628
01:04:17.100 --> 01:04:21.170
But that's my karma.

629
01:04:21.170 --> 01:04:23.080
(knock on door)

630
01:04:23.080 --> 01:04:25.100
- Come in.
- May I come in?

631
01:04:25.140 --> 01:04:27.160
Yes.

632
01:04:42.472 --> 00:00:00.000
(water laps gently)

633
01:04:48.857 --> 01:04:51.524
(gentle music)

634
01:05:04.575 --> 01:05:07.325
(slow footsteps)

635
01:05:09.123 --> 01:05:12.040
(birds fluttering)

636
01:05:16.070 --> 01:05:19.000
I'm divorced now in Sweden.

637
01:05:19.040 --> 01:05:21.160
- You're divorced under Swedish law?
- Yes.

638
01:05:21.200 --> 01:05:27.090
I also want to be separated
under Islamic law.

639
01:05:27.130 --> 01:05:31.080
- You're married according to Islam?
- Yes.

640
01:05:31.120 --> 01:05:36.160
I called to get help
from an imam in Sweden.

641
01:05:36.200 --> 01:05:43.090
I called him, and he said to me,
"I'm sorry. I can't do anything."

642
01:05:43.130 --> 01:05:50.040
"Your ex-husband should come here
and give you permission."

643
01:05:50.080 --> 01:05:57.090
But then I talked to him,
and he absolutely refused.

644
01:05:57.130 --> 01:05:59.160
- Your husband refused?
- Yes.

645
01:05:59.200 --> 01:06:04.200
- Was there violence in your marriage?
- In the last part, yes.

646
01:06:04.240 --> 01:06:09.040
- Physical violence, or mental violence?
- Both of those.

647
01:06:09.080 --> 01:06:13.070
For how many years?

648
01:06:13.110 --> 01:06:19.040
Physically,
for about the last two years.

649
01:06:19.080 --> 01:06:23.240
And...

650
01:06:24.030 --> 01:06:28.170
- Do you have children?
- I have four children with him.

651
01:06:28.210 --> 01:06:35.100
I actually took
anti-depressive tablets.

652
01:06:36.330 --> 00:00:00.000
(distant chatter)

653
01:06:40.160 --> 01:06:47.230
We made a contract that gives women the
right to divorce, prohibits polygamy.

654
01:06:48.020 --> 01:06:52.200
In cases of psychological or physical
abuse, the marriage is annulled.

655
01:06:52.240 --> 01:06:59.090
And in case of a divorce, the woman
has equal rights to the children.

656
01:06:59.130 --> 01:07:04.100
The reality is that some women
can't obtain an Islamic divorce.

657
01:07:04.140 --> 01:07:09.080
They can have a lawful divorce and still
be mentally bound to their marriage -

658
01:07:09.120 --> 01:07:14.040
- because no imam in Denmark
will give them a divorce.

659
01:07:14.080 --> 01:07:19.170
That is now possible. The Mariam Mosque
has already provided four divorces.

660
01:07:19.210 --> 01:07:22.090
Thank you.

661
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
(applause) (cheers)

662
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
(dogs bark)

663
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
(ping)

664
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
(distant traffic passes)

665
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
So the question is,
where do we go from here?

666
01:08:06.130 --> 01:08:11.030
I just want to add
that I'm not trying to blame anyone.

667
01:08:11.070 --> 01:08:17.180
We have our differences, Sherin. We've
worked well together and had arguments.

668
01:08:17.220 --> 01:08:22.170
I just don't feel
I can do this any longer.

669
01:08:33.729 --> 01:08:36.562
(car hums softly)

670
01:08:40.743 --> 01:08:43.410
(gentle music)

671
01:09:10.100 --> 01:09:14.140
It's really difficult
for me to talk about.

672
01:09:14.180 --> 01:09:19.170
To be left alone. It's really heavy.

673
01:09:19.210 --> 01:09:23.060
Back to the beginning.

674
01:09:27.020 --> 01:09:32.140
Can we take a break?
Let's take a break.

675
01:10:15.040 --> 01:10:18.210
I'm here today to share with you -

676
01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:26.100
- the story of the making
of the Mariam Mosque in Denmark.

677
01:10:31.212 --> 01:10:33.010
(people chatter)

678
01:10:33.100 --> 01:10:37.040
I don't believe there is
any kind of definitive God's law.

679
01:10:37.080 --> 01:10:43.130
I believe, instead, that we're in
a constant relationship with our Lord -

680
01:10:43.170 --> 01:10:49.210
- and that we have to understand
how best to be and surrender to Allah.

681
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:53.090
We must do that
in the context of communities -

682
01:10:53.130 --> 01:10:58.030
- which means that, at times,
there will be differences of opinion.

683
01:10:57.350 --> 01:10:59.600
(applause)

684
01:11:00.180 --> 01:11:07.220
As-salaam alaykum.
Thank you so much for inviting me.

685
01:11:08.010 --> 01:11:15.020
In Denmark, along with a group
of Muslims, I founded the Mariam Mosque.

686
01:11:15.060 --> 01:11:20.100
It's very hard to talk about,
because some of the women -

687
01:11:20.140 --> 01:11:23.160
- and some former female imams
left the mosque -

688
01:11:23.200 --> 01:11:29.150
- because they were against
the interfaith marriages I've conducted.

689
01:11:29.190 --> 01:11:34.020
Some of them told me, "You promised us
that you would not go this far -

690
01:11:34.060 --> 01:11:38.020
- that you would not burn any bridges."
It was like our slogan.

691
01:11:38.060 --> 01:11:44.060
So it's a very, very tough decision
to carry on and to...

692
01:11:45.210 --> 01:11:51.060
... hold on to the idea, to the vision,
to the work and to the activism.

693
01:11:51.100 --> 01:11:53.240
Thank you.

694
01:11:53.364 --> 01:11:58.308
(applause)
(soft music)

695
01:11:58.308 --> 01:12:01.308
(cars whooshing by)

696
01:12:02.745 --> 01:12:06.328
(motorbike engine putters)

697
01:12:11.040 --> 01:12:18.040
Last time I was in Berkeley, I was in
love with your dad. I had just met him.

698
01:12:18.080 --> 01:12:22.170
So I bought my wedding dress
here in Berkeley.

699
01:12:38.060 --> 01:12:41.240
What are you doing?

700
01:12:49.719 --> 01:12:52.386
(gentle music)

701
01:13:08.484 --> 01:13:11.484
(band marches past)

702
01:13:16.090 --> 01:13:22.040
We're going to have a board meeting,
because we're going to make a new board.

703
01:13:22.080 --> 01:13:29.100
So everybody has the opportunity to
sign up for the board, if you want to.

704
01:13:29.140 --> 01:13:32.200
I think it's very important
to discuss it through -

705
01:13:32.240 --> 01:13:36.200
- so everybody knows
what the Mariam Mosque is about.

706
01:13:36.240 --> 01:13:41.030
So you also have the chance
to leave if you disagree -

707
01:13:41.070 --> 01:13:44.210
- and to be sure
that you know what you go into.

708
01:13:46.080 --> 01:13:52.230
And the first thing is that we
want to build up an Islamic community -

709
01:13:53.020 --> 01:13:57.130
- based on the spiritual path
called Sufism.

710
01:13:57.170 --> 01:14:01.180
- So we all agree on that?
- Yes.

711
01:14:01.220 --> 01:14:08.210
Then there's the question of interfaith
marriages, which is very controversial.

712
01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:14.180
In our former board, we had
different opinions about this topic.

713
01:14:19.230 --> 01:14:24.200
- I'm so happy to be here.
- Please don't ever leave the mosque.

714
01:14:24.240 --> 01:14:28.050
- No.
- You can't leave.

715
01:14:28.090 --> 01:14:34.140
- I know what I'm in for, Sherin.
- That's good.

716
01:14:36.098 --> 01:14:38.848
(birds tweeting)

717
01:14:48.240 --> 01:14:53.000
- What's this place going to be like?
- The Mariam Mosque.

718
01:14:53.040 --> 01:15:00.000
There are two scenarios,
the way I see it. One isn't good.

719
01:15:00.040 --> 01:15:06.150
It's that the Mariam Mosque is
a representation of Sherin Khankan.

720
01:15:06.190 --> 01:15:12.200
The other scenario will be able to last.
There will be a board -

721
01:15:12.240 --> 01:15:18.210
- that may also talk publicly
about various issues.

722
01:15:20.050 --> 01:15:25.180
It should be able to stand on its own.

723
01:15:25.220 --> 01:15:31.020
Because right now,
it's just you cradling it.

724
01:15:31.958 --> 01:15:34.291
(chuckling)

725
01:15:35.632 --> 01:15:38.882
(distant traffic hums)

726
01:15:55.256 --> 01:15:58.506
(train rumbles softly)

727
01:16:01.100 --> 01:16:05.180
Abdel has contacted me again -

728
01:16:05.220 --> 01:16:09.130
- and asked me
if I would officiate their wedding.

729
01:16:09.170 --> 01:16:13.030
- Right.
- What do you think?

730
01:16:13.070 --> 01:16:18.050
I have mixed feelings about it.
I wrote to him -

731
01:16:18.090 --> 01:16:23.020
- that I would love to do it,
and that I support it -

732
01:16:23.060 --> 01:16:27.080
- but that it's a question
of how many battles we can shoulder.

733
01:16:27.120 --> 01:16:29.140
Right.

734
01:16:29.180 --> 01:16:34.090
- What do you think?
- I agree, especially on that last part.

735
01:16:34.130 --> 01:16:41.200
And then I thought, someone has to take
the first step and show support.

736
01:16:41.240 --> 01:16:46.020
- But can you...
- But I don't have enough knowledge.

737
01:16:46.060 --> 01:16:49.130
- That's the point.
- I don't have theological...

738
01:16:49.170 --> 01:16:53.070
- This is very emotional.
- Yes, it's pure emotion.

739
01:16:53.110 --> 01:16:57.040
- I don't have the knowledge.
- And I respect that.

740
01:16:57.080 --> 01:17:04.090
But you're speaking on behalf
of a religious community.

741
01:17:04.130 --> 01:17:09.060
So you can't just say,
"I feel very strongly about this."

742
01:17:09.100 --> 01:17:12.140
You can't even tell the board that.

743
01:17:12.180 --> 01:17:16.180
When in a community,
you have to consider that community.

744
01:17:16.220 --> 01:17:21.180
Yes, because it's tough -

745
01:17:21.220 --> 01:17:26.080
- to provide theological backing
for such a decision -

746
01:17:26.120 --> 01:17:31.230
- to say that there's Islamic evidence
in support of gay marriage.

747
01:17:32.020 --> 01:17:39.090
But it's hard to turn someone down.
It's different when there's no request.

748
01:17:39.130 --> 01:17:42.080
It's hard.

749
01:17:45.689 --> 01:17:48.689
(people chattering)

750
01:17:49.414 --> 01:17:50.018
(door squeaks)

751
01:17:50.180 --> 01:17:54.090
- Hello. How are you doing?
- Fine. Welcome.

752
01:17:54.130 --> 01:17:58.030
- I haven't been here before.
- It's your first time?

753
01:17:58.070 --> 01:18:03.170
Thank you for putting your trust in me
and for contacting me at all.

754
01:18:03.210 --> 01:18:08.240
I'm sorry I can't perform
a traditional Islamic marriage.

755
01:18:09.030 --> 01:18:12.240
That's just how it is,
and I'm very sorry.

756
01:18:13.030 --> 01:18:19.180
There's a momentum, there's a desire,
but no one wants to lead.

757
01:18:19.220 --> 01:18:26.000
- I want to, but I can't.
- But people don't dare to support you.

758
01:18:26.040 --> 01:18:31.020
- I would become a street imam.
- Yes. That's not my decision.

759
01:18:31.060 --> 01:18:34.110
No. I've thought about it.

760
01:18:34.150 --> 01:18:38.180
Just so you know
where I stand personally -

761
01:18:38.220 --> 01:18:43.040
- and what I would like to see.

762
01:18:43.080 --> 01:18:49.040
But for me, right now, it's important
that I have my mosque on my side.

763
01:18:49.080 --> 01:18:53.080
Last year, I lost four women.

764
01:18:53.120 --> 01:18:57.080
I've been on my own,
and now we're trying to rebuild.

765
01:19:07.070 --> 01:19:11.090
I feel like a coward.

766
01:19:11.130 --> 01:19:16.220
- In what way?
- In that I can't perform a marriage.

767
01:19:19.030 --> 01:19:20.230
Right.

768
01:19:22.438 --> 01:19:25.105
(gentle music)

769
01:19:31.483 --> 01:19:34.816
(car indicator ticking)

770
01:20:02.982 --> 01:20:05.565
(gulls crying)

771
01:20:17.080 --> 01:20:22.200
I started out by saying we shouldn't
burn bridges. I said it again and again.

772
01:19:22.438 --> 01:19:25.105
(gentle music)

773
01:20:22.240 --> 01:20:27.070
That's impossible
if you want to create change.

774
01:20:28.132 --> 01:20:32.465
(applause)
(cheers)

775
01:20:39.120 --> 01:20:43.220
Dear Abdel Aziz, dear Andreas.

776
01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:50.150
When we form relations with people and
communities, we put ourselves at risk.

777
01:20:50.190 --> 01:20:55.100
We risk getting hurt and abandoned.
We risk love and loss.

778
01:20:55.140 --> 01:20:59.000
This is the risk of life.

779
01:20:59.040 --> 01:21:05.120
We must distinguish between anxiety that
makes us sick, that we may challenge -

780
01:21:05.160 --> 01:21:12.030
- and the existential anxiety,
which will always be a part of us.

781
01:21:12.070 --> 01:21:19.140
For instance, the fear of losing,
failing or expulsion from communities.

782
01:21:19.180 --> 01:21:26.130
Community and care for one another
are central in Christianity and Islam.

783
01:21:26.170 --> 01:21:31.120
When you marry, it's the first time
you choose your own family.

784
01:21:31.160 --> 01:21:37.000
Everything begins with family,
and family is in truth a lottery.

785
01:21:37.040 --> 01:21:43.110
We don't choose our first family,
but we choose the family we create.

786
01:21:52.694 --> 01:21:56.628
(cheers)
(applause)

787
01:21:56.628 --> 01:22:00.332
(gentle music)

788
01:22:00.332 --> 01:22:04.250
(cheers)
(applause)

789
01:22:04.250 --> 01:22:06.583
(whistling)

790
01:22:44.787 --> 01:22:47.704
(gentle murmuring)

791
01:22:48.980 --> 01:22:52.313
(vacuum cleaner whines)

792
01:23:01.638 --> 01:23:04.638
(passing footsteps)

793
01:23:09.150 --> 01:23:12.170
- What do you think?
- Sounds good.

794
01:23:12.210 --> 01:23:16.010
- I have...
- Hi there.

795
01:23:16.050 --> 01:23:19.190
Hi. I have my last exam
on the 17th of January.

796
01:23:24.220 --> 01:23:28.120
I just want to say thank you
to everyone for this year.

797
01:23:28.160 --> 01:23:34.050
I'm very grateful for our team
and what we have accomplished together.

798
01:23:34.090 --> 01:23:37.100
So I just want to say thank you.

799
01:23:39.050 --> 01:23:45.040
Actually, we also have to announce that
we have two female imams in the mosque -

800
01:23:45.080 --> 01:23:48.339
- because Aliah took the title upon her.

801
01:23:48.339 --> 01:23:50.397
(applause)

802
01:23:50.397 --> 01:23:52.730
(laughing)

803
01:23:53.240 --> 01:23:58.060
It's more of a humbling experience,
just to be of service -

804
01:23:58.100 --> 01:24:04.090
- because I never thought I would get
the chance to lead prayer in a mosque.

805
01:24:57.453 --> 01:25:00.036
(sings prayer)

806
01:24:47.160 --> 01:24:52.090
So you're standing here, in the middle,
and we will stand here beside you.

807
01:24:57.453 --> 01:25:00.036
(sings prayer)

808
01:25:18.060 --> 01:25:22.120
The last part is so beautiful.
How was it?

809
01:25:22.160 --> 01:25:29.180
Okay, but when we go on to saying
Allahu Akbar, do I say that out loud?

810
01:25:29.220 --> 01:25:33.040
Yeah, you can say it out loud
if you want to.

811
01:25:33.080 --> 01:25:36.170
Every time you say something loud,
say it loud.

812
01:26:10.746 --> 01:26:13.663
(inspiring music)