Wim Wenders' Story of His Early Years

Description
Reviews
Citation
Cataloging
Transcript

If you are not affiliated with a college or university, and are interested in watching this film, please register as an individual and login to rent this film. Already registered? Login to rent this film. This film is also available on our home streaming platform, OVID.tv.

In intimate conversations Wim Wenders talks about his sheltered upbringing in post-war Germany. The film follows him on a journey into the past that takes him to Paris, where he lived as a young painter and made his decision to become a filmmaker. He recounts his experiences, successes and failures as a film student on the way to becoming a director. He also conveys the attitudes and the euphoric mood among the first intake of students at Munich’s newly founded film school.

Apart from Wenders himself, some of his most important fellow-travellers also have their say, including Peter Handke, Robby Müller, Rüdiger Vogler, Bruno Ganz and Lisa Kreuzer. As they remember, they discuss some of the fundamental, recurring themes of Wenders’ films – such as the search for identity, friendship and communication. They also discuss their own personal experiences with Wenders, both private and professional.

Excerpts from Wenders’ early works illustrate how, time and again, the filmmaker portrayed familar people he knew and authentic experiences.

This is just one of the ways in which this documentary sheds new light on the early films of Wim Wenders.

Citation

Select a citation style:

Main credits

Wehn, Marcel (film director)
Kaczmarek, Julia (film producer)
Otto, Sonia (film producer)
Roques, Karoline von (film producer)
Wenders, Wim (on-screen participant)

Other credits

Cinematography, Dietmar Ratsch, Sarah Rotter; editor, Dorothee Broeckelmann.

MARC Record See Worldcat record

Keywords

First Hand Films; Documentary; Film; Germany; Wim Wenders' Story of His Early Years; Marcel Wehn; Arek Gielnik; 2007; Indie Film; Wim Wenders; Filmmaker; Biography; "Wim Wenders' Story of his Early Years"; doc; art; bio;

00:01:07.433 --> 00:01:09.133
It is not...

00:01:11.833 --> 00:01:14.633
I don't think I could say that
this is the main theme.

00:01:15.133 --> 00:01:18.600
Because the movies have several themes.

00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:22.300
But that is the common thread,

00:01:22.367 --> 00:01:25.033
or the continuous issue.

00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:31.033
Or a continuous attitude.
More than anything else.

00:01:34.866 --> 00:01:37.733
Otherwise you couldn't
deal with movies like

00:01:37.933 --> 00:01:40.033
Buena Vista Social Club,

00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:42.100
Alice in the Cities, and Until the End of the World.

00:01:42.933 --> 00:01:44.933
Or Wings of Desire.

00:01:45.267 --> 00:01:47.733
You can't say that those have a theme.

00:01:48.533 --> 00:01:50.866
If anything, they have

00:01:52.433 --> 00:01:56.133
a basic feel to them,
that carries them all.

00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:59.633
Basically, there's the question of
how you should live.

00:02:00.733 --> 00:02:04.233
So, how do you do that

00:02:05.333 --> 00:02:06.667
in these times,

00:02:08.933 --> 00:02:13.067
given everything we all experience,
and all that the world is going through,

00:02:13.367 --> 00:02:17.800
how do you manage that,
to know what you are living for?

00:02:19.767 --> 00:02:24.867
And I think that is
the theme of all the movies

00:02:26.033 --> 00:02:28.167
I have made.

00:03:11.600 --> 00:03:12.833
What are you living for?

00:03:13.933 --> 00:03:17.033
And that is actually
a very personal question,

00:03:18.100 --> 00:03:20.400
that can only be
answered personally.

00:03:21.500 --> 00:03:24.367
But especially when
answered personally, it is

00:03:25.333 --> 00:03:26.400
also relevant.

00:03:27.367 --> 00:03:31.667
If you answer the question
too theoretically,

00:03:31.733 --> 00:03:32.733
nobody cares.

00:03:33.267 --> 00:03:37.500
And if you answer it in a too
personal way, nobody cares either.

00:03:38.767 --> 00:03:42.333
But if you see it
as a personal experience,

00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:47.267
and are ready to basically
reveal something

00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:49.567
from this experience,

00:03:50.533 --> 00:03:55.567
and also to really handle
this experience in an extreme way,

00:03:57.333 --> 00:04:00.400
then it finally is something,

00:04:01.167 --> 00:04:04.000
that is of interest to everybody,
in one way or the other.

00:04:06.300 --> 00:04:10.700
Movies do often tell more
through that which they do not tell.

00:04:11.633 --> 00:04:14.267
Or they show that which they do not show.

00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:20.067
Movies often are about that which cannot
be said and is invisible.

00:04:21.899 --> 00:04:27.433
But while they are about that
which can't be said and is invisible,

00:04:27.933 --> 00:04:31.332
they sometimes reach

00:04:32.300 --> 00:04:35.867
our subconscious in a different way,
and are actually able to talk

00:04:36.332 --> 00:04:37.500
about all these things.

00:06:06.167 --> 00:06:08.467
There are landscapes that
make him feel comfortable.

00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:12.667
So everything that isn't green,

00:06:13.633 --> 00:06:14.433
I think.

00:06:14.900 --> 00:06:16.067
Therefore the desert,

00:06:17.667 --> 00:06:21.533
in every way.
Everything that has to do with sand and concrete and...

00:06:23.900 --> 00:06:25.533
...with vastness.

00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:31.233
If the place is totally empty, and somewhere
a tuft of grass is to be found,

00:06:31.300 --> 00:06:32.567
he will totally love that.

00:06:33.233 --> 00:06:34.233
But...

00:06:36.633 --> 00:06:41.000
He thinks the same about everything that is urban,

00:06:41.700 --> 00:06:45.500
urban landscapes
that are decayed and abandoned,

00:06:46.067 --> 00:06:47.533
that's just the way he was raised.

00:06:51.867 --> 00:06:56.500
That is basically more or less
from my room,

00:06:57.133 --> 00:06:58.367
I'm staring right now...

00:06:58.433 --> 00:07:02.300
I was very impressed
by the industry in that first year.

00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:04.833
That was the bill [unintelligible]

00:07:05.233 --> 00:07:08.833
always bright as day at night,
and all those chimneys. It was a truly

00:07:09.233 --> 00:07:12.567
red and golden evening sky,
because the air was so polluted.

00:07:13.467 --> 00:07:17.033
I also made some watercolor paintings,
that looked just like this one.

00:07:21.967 --> 00:07:25.133
I still remember how my father...
That is my art teacher, by the way.

00:07:28.400 --> 00:07:29.933
I always had an A in art.

00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:32.433
I still remember how my father saw

00:07:32.500 --> 00:07:34.332
that I was filming out the window,

00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:39.300
and he said:
"What do you find interesting there?"

00:07:41.332 --> 00:07:45.133
My father could not understand it...
These are my parents.

00:07:46.700 --> 00:07:48.533
Klaus, my father, and my mother.

00:07:49.332 --> 00:07:52.633
My father was totally unable to understand
that I wanted to film strangers,

00:07:52.700 --> 00:07:54.700
and the
landscape in general.

00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:59.967
Our pride and joy.
The first Citroen of the family.

00:08:02.500 --> 00:08:04.933
This is pretty exactly the year 1960.

00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.633
This is the first year
that we have lived in this house.

00:08:12.500 --> 00:08:15.233
How poor Klaus has suffered
because of this violin.

00:08:17.400 --> 00:08:20.832
I think that's Christmas,
otherwise he wouldn't be playing in public.

00:08:21.133 --> 00:08:22.967
These are Christmas balls. So, exactly,

00:08:23.033 --> 00:08:27.667
it's the first Christmas
in this horrible Sterkrade.

00:08:29.033 --> 00:08:31.067
Oh, that's me. I got skis.

00:08:34.033 --> 00:08:34.866
That's right.

00:08:43.700 --> 00:08:46.967
My father was a doctor
who did justice to his work.

00:08:47.767 --> 00:08:50.833
The way my father operated
was almost aesthetic.

00:08:50.900 --> 00:08:54.067
Just breathtaking.

00:08:56.233 --> 00:08:59.400
I think that's why I also
wanted to be a doctor at first.

00:08:59.467 --> 00:09:01.367
And if I had, I would have become a surgeon too.

00:09:05.667 --> 00:09:07.600
It didn't cross my mind
for a while

00:09:07.667 --> 00:09:09.233
that something else was possible.

00:09:09.867 --> 00:09:15.367
It only became clear to me in the course of
these first semesters of medicine,

00:09:15.433 --> 00:09:17.200
that it wasn't my own path.

00:09:17.300 --> 00:09:20.933
To get rid of this enormously powerful image

00:09:22.533 --> 00:09:24.633
of my father, so to speak,

00:09:24.700 --> 00:09:28.533
and find a path of my own,
that took a while.

00:09:33.667 --> 00:09:38.567
A certain wordlessness from my
father has been transferred to his sons.

00:09:39.367 --> 00:09:41.333
Neither of us were that talkative.

00:09:43.933 --> 00:09:47.067
It was difficult to talk to our mother
about certain things,

00:09:47.667 --> 00:09:49.800
as she was not so open to a lot of stuff.

00:09:50.533 --> 00:09:55.500
Well, neither Klaus nor I talked much
about school, for example.

00:09:56.300 --> 00:09:57.600
My father didn't have time.

00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:01.533
We didn't tell our mother
much about it.

00:10:02.633 --> 00:10:05.933
Maybe a bit because of
her vulnerability,

00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:11.000
or also because of her
frequent nervous states.

00:10:12.633 --> 00:10:17.167
She often had ailments.
So we always spared her.

00:10:18.967 --> 00:10:20.033
My mother.

00:10:21.767 --> 00:10:23.333
All mothers back then looked like that.

00:10:26.967 --> 00:10:29.833
My mother has never played

00:10:30.233 --> 00:10:33.200
such an important role for Klaus and me
as our father.

00:10:34.467 --> 00:10:37.633
He was the reference point for both of us.

00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:40.933
My mother, who was
always so submissive

00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:43.633
in the role of the housewife

00:10:43.700 --> 00:10:46.500
and never had an
opinion of her own about anything,

00:10:46.567 --> 00:10:48.467
but would always check first,

00:10:48.533 --> 00:10:51.400
what my father was thinking,
and that would become her opinion as well.

00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:55.400
After a while, you also
internalize that as a child,

00:10:55.467 --> 00:10:58.100
and you don't ask your mother,
but you ask your father directly,

00:10:58.167 --> 00:11:01.467
because you know what she will say.
She only says what he says

00:11:02.233 --> 00:11:04.233
anyway. That is also
her opinion then.

00:11:04.567 --> 00:11:05.600
She would only talk

00:11:06.867 --> 00:11:09.800
positively about her husband
and the whole marriage.

00:11:10.733 --> 00:11:14.133
I have only heard from others,
that they had frequent fights

00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:15.200
or disagreements.

00:11:16.100 --> 00:11:19.167
Never from my mother.
It was a perfect kind of suppression.

00:11:23.533 --> 00:11:28.267
And I think that this is
deeply rooted in Wim.

00:11:28.333 --> 00:11:32.700
He has absorbed it
with his mother's milk.

00:11:33.500 --> 00:11:37.033
I know families where everyone
is constantly talking at the same time.

00:11:37.100 --> 00:11:39.600
The same goes for my friends.
You would sit at the table

00:11:39.667 --> 00:11:42.933
and everyone would talk, all mixed up.

00:11:44.267 --> 00:11:47.200
And I wasn't familiar with that.
I sometimes thought that was

00:11:47.267 --> 00:11:50.567
pretty exciting, that
people elsewhere would talk all the time.

00:11:50.633 --> 00:11:52.667
There was not so much talking in our house.

00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:01.833
Especially not while eating.

00:12:05.867 --> 00:12:08.033
I can't promise you
what comes next.

00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:10.100
We can just watch it again. OK?

00:12:20.267 --> 00:12:21.967
I think this is a movie, that I,

00:12:23.067 --> 00:12:25.667
I think I was 18,

00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:28.200
or 17, 18, and I did that one with Ulrike.

00:12:28.967 --> 00:12:31.700
The handheld camera was rather rare otherwise.

00:12:33.567 --> 00:12:34.767
By the way, that was her.

00:12:36.067 --> 00:12:39.167
- The film was made by two people?
- We made that one as a team of two.

00:12:40.700 --> 00:12:43.700
This was a house that her father
had built.

00:12:51.967 --> 00:12:55.400
[Unintelligible]

00:13:03.767 --> 00:13:07.400
It's very Anna Karina-like.

00:13:12.167 --> 00:13:15.267
Did you know the [unintelligable] movies?
- No, not yet.

00:13:15.900 --> 00:13:17.533
I don't know how I came up with that.

00:13:18.667 --> 00:13:19.967
How old were you at the time?

00:13:20.033 --> 00:13:22.300
I think I was 15.

00:13:22.900 --> 00:13:25.400
And what was the first impression?

00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:28.633
That he was bad at skating.

00:13:30.900 --> 00:13:35.400
Well, that was just some kind of
flirtation among kids, right.

00:13:35.467 --> 00:13:37.700
I was 13 at the time.

00:13:38.267 --> 00:13:39.333
He was 17.

00:13:40.233 --> 00:13:42.767
That really was
the first great love.

00:13:44.333 --> 00:13:47.833
The first time that I really
fell in love was with Ulrike.

00:13:57.233 --> 00:14:00.200
And as is the case when this happens
to you for the first time,

00:14:00.900 --> 00:14:03.167
you think, of course,
that it is never going to end.

00:14:04.833 --> 00:14:07.767
I was quite busy thinking
about existentialism at the time.

00:14:09.533 --> 00:14:11.300
Camus was my great hero.

00:14:12.767 --> 00:14:16.400
I loved him more than anything,
more than Sartre, that was more

00:14:17.300 --> 00:14:19.933
some kind of intellectual stuff and impressive,
but only Camus

00:14:20.467 --> 00:14:23.533
really touched my heart.
That was important to me.

00:14:24.900 --> 00:14:27.933
I quite shared that with Ulrike
at the time.

00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:31.000
The meaning of life.
That was what it was all about.

00:14:31.967 --> 00:14:33.200
What does life mean?

00:14:34.133 --> 00:14:35.200
Do you have to live?

00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:37.967
How should you...yes, yes, sure, sure.

00:14:38.033 --> 00:14:41.200
Some of that was pretty destructive, too.

00:14:42.067 --> 00:14:43.933
We used to talk a lot.

00:14:45.067 --> 00:14:47.800
And also be silent with each other.

00:14:49.733 --> 00:14:52.233
Wim has always been
a great taciturn.

00:14:53.333 --> 00:14:56.600
Did Wim Wenders have a best friend?

00:14:57.900 --> 00:14:58.833
Nope!

00:15:03.067 --> 00:15:05.833
Well, he was surrounded by many, but...

00:15:05.900 --> 00:15:07.667
I think I was his best friend.

00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:18.167
I was still a pupil in Oberhausen
and was living in that room,

00:15:19.333 --> 00:15:22.833
when I met this young man,
this man who was young at the time.

00:15:23.167 --> 00:15:25.600
I was still in senior high,

00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:29.900
when Peter Handke staged

00:15:29.967 --> 00:15:33.667
the first performance
of the audience insult

00:15:34.467 --> 00:15:37.200
in Sterkrade, no not in Sterkrade,
but in the city theater of Oberhausen.

00:15:37.267 --> 00:15:42.133
For some reason that was first shown
in Oberhausen, where I met him.

00:15:42.633 --> 00:15:45.167
A discussion took place,
and we had

00:15:46.333 --> 00:15:48.867
quite a few arguments and fights,

00:15:48.933 --> 00:15:54.067
and somehow that turned
into some kind of acquaintance

00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.567
that was casual, as I was a student at a secondary school.

00:15:58.633 --> 00:15:59.967
But it did continue.

00:16:00.500 --> 00:16:03.200
I met him two years later
in Düsseldorf.

00:16:04.267 --> 00:16:07.400
He also recognized me,
and somehow we became friends.

00:16:09.900 --> 00:16:13.000
He is, so to speak,
my oldest friend.

00:16:17.067 --> 00:16:18.033
Peter.

00:16:19.300 --> 00:16:23.867
These were my first small plays
that were staged in Oberhausen,

00:16:23.933 --> 00:16:27.767
by a man who is long dead.
His name is Günther Büsch.

00:16:28.867 --> 00:16:31.267
Wim was a spectator at the time.

00:16:31.633 --> 00:16:34.467
And afterwards, he reached out to me.

00:16:35.867 --> 00:16:40.900
He stood in the corner, so that it was
impossible to overlook him. Despite the corner.

00:16:45.067 --> 00:16:46.800
We then met up frequently.

00:16:47.233 --> 00:16:49.200
At the time, I was living in Düsseldorf.

00:16:49.567 --> 00:16:51.900
I instantly trusted him.

00:16:53.733 --> 00:16:57.767
At the time, he was still painting.
He had little to do with movies.

00:16:57.833 --> 00:16:59.533
Anyway, a conversation took place between us.

00:17:00.500 --> 00:17:05.000
And he emanated some kind of warmhearted
loneliness.

00:17:06.031 --> 00:17:09.031
I was attracted to that.

00:17:58.567 --> 00:18:00.033
Well, that...

00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:04.667
that can be seen in two ways.

00:18:09.700 --> 00:18:12.233
After I stopped
studying medicine in Freiburg,

00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:17.767
I told my father
that I

00:18:19.133 --> 00:18:20.733
wanted to be a painter, and

00:18:22.667 --> 00:18:25.200
where would a young painter want to go to,
if not Paris.

00:18:40.833 --> 00:18:43.500
At that corner, I sat and
read a lot.

00:18:45.300 --> 00:18:46.700
That was my favorite spot.

00:18:48.167 --> 00:18:52.867
I was practically 200 meters away from here,
down the Rue de la Seine,

00:18:53.267 --> 00:18:54.633
down the Rue de la Seine,

00:18:56.100 --> 00:18:58.367
and then I'd arrive at Pont Neuf.

00:18:59.667 --> 00:19:03.033
Then I would sit all afternoon
under these trees, and would read

00:19:03.600 --> 00:19:07.000
and make drawings and do God
knows what. That was my favorite spot.

00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:14.200
Yes, the old Cinémathèque.

00:19:16.533 --> 00:19:20.267
The stairs, and I would go
there every day.

00:19:21.333 --> 00:19:25.633
Mostly just once, and then I'd
stay seated or go to the toilet,

00:19:25.700 --> 00:19:28.700
until the next movie would start,
so I had to pay only once.

00:19:30.967 --> 00:19:33.300
But, I think I saw round about

00:19:34.600 --> 00:19:37.100
1000 movies, one after the other,
at the Cinémathèque.

00:19:37.433 --> 00:19:42.600
Every day I would watch the whole program
starting in the afternoon, until midnight.

00:19:42.667 --> 00:19:43.867
No matter what was on.

00:19:45.667 --> 00:19:48.767
All retrospectives across the board,

00:19:48.833 --> 00:19:51.267
I would watch the whole history of film,
zigzagging through it.

00:19:53.633 --> 00:19:55.933
Sometimes up to five movies
in a row.

00:19:58.267 --> 00:19:59.567
Or sometimes even six.

00:20:00.067 --> 00:20:04.733
At some point he wrote to me,
saying he wanted to make movies now.

00:20:08.167 --> 00:20:09.367
After Paris

00:20:11.467 --> 00:20:12.867
I arrived in Munich,

00:20:14.933 --> 00:20:19.800
and I was passing the Süddeutsche Zeitung,
and by coincidence,

00:20:21.100 --> 00:20:22.433
while [unintelligible]

00:20:23.600 --> 00:20:26.100
I took the Culture page of the Feuilleton
with me and

00:20:26.167 --> 00:20:27.867
there was an ad in it.

00:20:29.267 --> 00:20:31.333
The film school is opening,

00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.367
the University for Television and Film (HFF)
in Munich.

00:20:38.233 --> 00:20:40.900
The time at the HFF
was quite a muddled one.

00:20:41.333 --> 00:20:44.300
We were the guinea pigs,
in the very first year.

00:20:45.300 --> 00:20:47.733
It was scary

00:20:48.933 --> 00:20:51.400
how a university course
was structured.

00:20:51.467 --> 00:20:54.600
There was practically no practice
of filmmaking.

00:20:54.667 --> 00:20:58.267
There was only a rotten camera,
which ran only on the net,

00:20:58.333 --> 00:21:01.233
that you couldn't even put on your shoulder
or take out.

00:21:01.300 --> 00:21:02.400
One for all students.

00:21:03.233 --> 00:21:07.700
They didn't have an acting guide
nor film history,

00:21:08.233 --> 00:21:10.800
nor anything else that really
had to do with filmmaking.

00:21:10.867 --> 00:21:12.800
I have to say I have
learned very little there.

00:21:13.100 --> 00:21:17.567
It was a great time. Ultimately
it was to the benefit of

00:21:17.633 --> 00:21:18.633
all of us who were there.

00:21:19.867 --> 00:21:23.033
It wasn't like I could say,

00:21:23.900 --> 00:21:26.400
that if I hadn't been there,

00:21:28.267 --> 00:21:29.467
I would have missed out on a lot.

00:21:29.967 --> 00:21:33.267
So we were teaching each
other lots.

00:21:33.767 --> 00:21:36.900
Everyone used to work on
the other films as well.

00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:40.933
The films were actually
made on our own initiatives.

00:21:41.033 --> 00:21:42.533
They were not planned.

00:21:43.300 --> 00:21:46.367
They were quite blindsided
by our demand

00:21:46.433 --> 00:21:47.867
to make movies.

00:21:48.467 --> 00:21:53.800
I was able to do one thing, I think,

00:21:54.133 --> 00:21:57.033
that was important to my colleagues
and friends:

00:21:57.100 --> 00:21:58.433
I always did a lot of things.

00:21:59.100 --> 00:22:02.300
When I sat my mind on something,
I would get it done.

00:22:02.767 --> 00:22:05.833
They all thought I was nuts,
when I said I'd make a movie

00:22:05.900 --> 00:22:08.333
with 15,000 Deutsche Mark we had.

00:22:08.833 --> 00:22:13.000
They all planned with ten,
15 minutes, 20 for a short film.

00:22:13.067 --> 00:22:16.967
Well, I made a movie of 2,5 hours with
that, with the same money.

00:22:19.233 --> 00:22:21.600
I decided to do so
and calculated it,

00:22:21.667 --> 00:22:23.667
and I thought that it had to work.

00:22:23.733 --> 00:22:26.867
I think I was important
to many, because

00:22:26.933 --> 00:22:31.133
I could always prove that it
was possible to do what you wanted to do,

00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:35.433
as long as you really wanted to do it
and believed in it.

00:22:35.500 --> 00:22:39.600
I also went to Munich at the time.
I studied drama.

00:22:40.467 --> 00:22:44.133
We both thought, we'd finally
be together again that way.

00:22:45.133 --> 00:22:49.800
Away from Sterkrade,
from the parents and so on.

00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:54.500
But before I went to Munich,

00:22:55.767 --> 00:22:58.833
I was in Paris, when he wasn't there anymore,

00:23:01.267 --> 00:23:04.933
and I met another man.

00:23:09.367 --> 00:23:12.700
By the way thanks to Wim,
who had provided me with the address,

00:23:16.333 --> 00:23:19.900
and I fell head over heels
in love with that man.

00:23:21.033 --> 00:23:25.700
And that was
quite a big shock for him.

00:23:26.033 --> 00:23:27.333
That was when it ended.

00:23:29.433 --> 00:23:30.833
How did he cope with it?

00:23:32.867 --> 00:23:36.267
He did not at all try
to hold me back.

00:23:36.600 --> 00:23:37.833
He just accepted it.

00:23:39.533 --> 00:23:41.833
And that also somehow...

00:23:44.133 --> 00:23:45.267
...did...

00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:50.800
...surprise me a bit.

00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.300
I always told myself,
if he had really

00:23:56.133 --> 00:23:59.333
wanted to continue

00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:02.333
to live with me, well we never lived together,

00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:07.433
but if he had wanted
to continue to be with me,

00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:10.867
he would maybe have fought for it,

00:24:10.933 --> 00:24:13.233
fought for me.
He did not do that at all.

00:24:15.933 --> 00:24:18.333
For him, it was over then.

00:24:19.733 --> 00:24:22.800
Was he someone who could
generally fight for something?

00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:29.500
Yes, he fought for his film cause.

00:24:41.133 --> 00:24:42.433
Hollywood.

00:24:42.867 --> 00:24:43.667
Yes?

00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:46.633
Good morning, my darling.

00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:49.633
I am sat at the Steinhuder Meer
and am looking at the water.

00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:53.500
And where are you?

00:24:54.833 --> 00:24:55.667
Yes.

00:25:00.800 --> 00:25:02.533
I will drive to Himmelreich (Kingdom of Heaven) now.

00:25:04.233 --> 00:25:06.333
That is the name of the place.
I will drive there now.

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.833
I always have to have an interest
in the name, before I want to go to a place.

00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.600
So Himmelreich
can hardly be topped.

00:25:18.700 --> 00:25:19.700
Everyone would want to go there.

00:25:30.233 --> 00:25:32.267
There was a restaurant in Munich

00:25:32.800 --> 00:25:34.567
named Bungalow.

00:25:35.533 --> 00:25:37.767
And in the

00:25:39.933 --> 00:25:41.267
adjoining room...

00:25:42.600 --> 00:25:46.233
There were two pinball machines,
and there he stood and played pinball.

00:25:48.267 --> 00:25:53.700
And there was something that I thought was great at the time,

00:25:53.967 --> 00:25:56.700
I mean, I was also incredibly
childish back then.

00:25:57.367 --> 00:26:01.700
So I asked:
"But who is that?"

00:26:02.267 --> 00:26:05.967
And then someone

00:26:06.700 --> 00:26:08.967
said: "Ah, he is a director".

00:26:09.733 --> 00:26:12.933
And then I said: "Is that true?"
– that is what I asked him.

00:26:13.900 --> 00:26:18.600
He then said: "Filmmaker".
I was so incredibly impressed by that.

00:26:22.367 --> 00:26:24.933
The female boss, so to speak,
was in our apartment.

00:26:26.600 --> 00:26:31.400
Also politically engaged.
And was arrested in '68 just like I was,

00:26:31.467 --> 00:26:33.000
because she was Austrian.

00:26:35.067 --> 00:26:38.667
She also had to deal with a court case
because of trespassing.

00:26:39.300 --> 00:26:40.933
At that point, she was about to be deported.

00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.067
We then said,
we cannot do that.

00:26:44.133 --> 00:26:47.000
We cannot loose Edda.
One of us will marry her.

00:26:49.633 --> 00:26:51.900
Maybe he hasn't fallen
in love with me.

00:26:52.767 --> 00:26:54.400
But I don't think so.

00:26:55.733 --> 00:27:00.000
So, well, I don't know that.
That is just how it turned out.

00:27:00.867 --> 00:27:05.367
I actually really admired him
and...

00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:14.033
He was just so incredibly serious.

00:27:15.300 --> 00:27:19.000
So, one could talk about childhood.

00:27:19.767 --> 00:27:22.000
One could talk about anything with him.

00:27:22.467 --> 00:27:26.500
I could accept something from Wim,
something

00:27:26.967 --> 00:27:30.267
I wouldn't have accepted from anyone else.

00:27:31.033 --> 00:27:33.967
I felt seen by him.

00:27:34.600 --> 00:27:39.700
So, for instance, I would never have
noticed a gumball machine on my own.

00:27:40.767 --> 00:27:45.500
And then, however, he always pulled rings for me,

00:27:46.100 --> 00:27:49.033
and always tons of them.

00:27:49.300 --> 00:27:50.133
Therefore...

00:27:50.933 --> 00:27:51.900
...and...

00:27:53.033 --> 00:27:55.033
I mean, something like that is just adorable.

00:28:50.600 --> 00:28:51.667
What I did is,

00:28:53.467 --> 00:28:57.433
especially for freshmen at the Munich

00:28:57.500 --> 00:29:00.567
or Berlin university,
I have

00:29:01.300 --> 00:29:03.800
also shown the Alabama again and again,

00:29:04.333 --> 00:29:09.000
in a series of
short films.

00:29:09.933 --> 00:29:11.467
And...

00:29:13.800 --> 00:29:17.433
I don't know whether –
no, perhaps not like that,

00:29:18.800 --> 00:29:21.967
that it has basically increased gradually

00:29:22.033 --> 00:29:27.333
so basically it got harder and harder
over the years with the movie.

00:29:29.567 --> 00:29:32.833
It got harder to
understand the film correctly?

00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:34.300
No, because it is so slow.

00:29:36.233 --> 00:29:38.800
The speed was no longer adjusted
to...

00:29:38.867 --> 00:29:42.033
No. And from this slow pace,

00:29:42.900 --> 00:29:46.600
at the time when
the movie was made,

00:29:46.667 --> 00:29:49.900
came a fascination,

00:29:52.467 --> 00:29:55.500
that was so strong,
that it took a long time,

00:29:55.567 --> 00:29:58.467
until the fellow students

00:29:59.500 --> 00:30:02.000
recovered from it.

00:30:21.700 --> 00:30:26.667
What came out of the short films by Wim Wenders

00:30:26.733 --> 00:30:30.933
and especially the
Alabama,

00:30:34.033 --> 00:30:37.933
was a way in which Munich
and also the surroundings

00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.633
of Munich had never been filmed before,
I think.

00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:45.467
And that's why it also hadn't been
seen before.

00:30:46.267 --> 00:30:51.400
And that suddenly

00:30:53.233 --> 00:30:56.167
the environment, which you knew,

00:30:56.867 --> 00:30:58.733
because it was yours,

00:30:59.600 --> 00:31:04.933
had filled which such vastness,

00:31:07.067 --> 00:31:09.000
that is, I think,
something very important,

00:31:09.067 --> 00:31:13.700
and I think that in a certain way
it was something political.

00:31:13.767 --> 00:31:17.900
There is a totally
heartfelt

00:31:17.967 --> 00:31:19.300
inner calm present in these early movies.

00:31:20.467 --> 00:31:22.200
I think one can see that.

00:31:23.600 --> 00:31:24.900
And he had that.

00:31:25.667 --> 00:31:27.833
Did you like these student films by Wim?

00:31:28.567 --> 00:31:29.700
Oh yes, yes!

00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:36.067
That was a kind of liberation from
stories, at the time.

00:31:36.133 --> 00:31:39.100
There was a time when you
wanted to move away from the stories.

00:31:39.433 --> 00:31:42.333
From the stories, the plots, and Hollywood.

00:31:42.800 --> 00:31:44.400
It was natural.

00:31:45.367 --> 00:31:48.733
It was like a liberation,
that nothing needed to happen.

00:31:49.367 --> 00:31:50.600
Without this

00:31:53.167 --> 00:31:56.767
heartfelt, inner calm he would
never have become so famous.

00:31:58.233 --> 00:31:59.700
Because that is just

00:32:02.433 --> 00:32:04.333
something of his own.

00:32:05.467 --> 00:32:07.733
And becoming famous is a part of it.

00:32:08.567 --> 00:32:11.733
Being in public.

00:32:12.167 --> 00:32:15.500
Just being. You can only do that
if you

00:32:18.267 --> 00:32:21.700
have some kind of inner calm.

00:32:22.367 --> 00:32:24.800
I think, the movies have

00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:28.333
just shown that.

00:32:29.867 --> 00:32:32.067
Yes, that is always next to the phone.

00:32:38.433 --> 00:32:41.367
I think this picture is very well done.

00:32:41.433 --> 00:32:45.300
So, for me it is not like a caricature
at all,

00:32:45.367 --> 00:32:48.867
as he can really be like that.

00:32:52.367 --> 00:32:54.800
That is why I always put
it there.

00:32:56.767 --> 00:33:02.000
He is really a pretty nutty
guy, if you...

00:33:03.433 --> 00:33:06.200
I mean, in a really positive sense.

00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:11.600
I also met this young man
in Munich.

00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:17.667
Equipped with a healthy

00:33:19.767 --> 00:33:20.833
kind of self confidence.

00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:23.333
He introduced himself as an editor.

00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:25.600
Then we met
in the editing room.

00:33:25.667 --> 00:33:29.433
And then there were these super long shots.
So incredibly long.

00:33:30.233 --> 00:33:32.200
I said: "Long is good, but

00:33:34.167 --> 00:33:36.500
make it short and let it have a long effect".

00:33:38.633 --> 00:33:41.300
Yes, then we just...
He had such long curly hair,

00:33:42.867 --> 00:33:44.267
just as it used to... me, too.

00:33:44.900 --> 00:33:46.433
They were down to the shoulders.

00:33:47.800 --> 00:33:49.167
It was all great.

00:33:50.500 --> 00:33:54.800
Then I did Summer in the City with
him... he just sat next to me,

00:33:54.867 --> 00:33:58.067
and then we just somehow made
it work like that.

00:33:58.467 --> 00:34:00.333
Have a long effect, be shorter.

00:34:01.300 --> 00:34:04.767
He edited Summer in the City
and ever since, well,

00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:08.833
the next 20 years, he did that with everything
that I ever directed.

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:14.367
Well, if I ever had some kind of

00:34:14.433 --> 00:34:19.900
twin brother,
then it is Peter Przygodda.

00:34:39.699 --> 00:34:43.000
I'm a non-smoker. Normally
they would all smoke pot.

00:34:44.100 --> 00:34:45.500
That was normal at the time.

00:34:46.699 --> 00:34:49.933
To roll a joint and smoke it.

00:34:50.967 --> 00:34:54.199
But at the time that was tradition,
to bake cookies

00:34:54.266 --> 00:34:55.733
with some pot in them.

00:34:56.433 --> 00:34:59.833
And I sometimes took them with me.
We often

00:34:59.967 --> 00:35:02.967
went to the movies with a group.
Oftentimes at night

00:35:03.400 --> 00:35:05.400
or in the evening, when they would show dramas.

00:35:05.467 --> 00:35:08.933
We were laughing ourselves silly,
because the pot

00:35:09.533 --> 00:35:13.000
caused our brains to work differently.

00:35:13.067 --> 00:35:16.400
For instance, we would just
laugh about tragic scenes.

00:35:16.900 --> 00:35:20.633
I was often kicked out of the movie theater,
but that would be all the fun.

00:35:21.067 --> 00:35:23.700
And it wasn't like that all the time.
It was just like that sometimes.

00:35:24.033 --> 00:35:26.867
One afternoon,
I had three cookies with me.

00:35:27.267 --> 00:35:29.433
I went to the Nest,
the Schwabinger Nest,

00:35:29.500 --> 00:35:33.767
which used to be the daily coffee spot
in Schwabing,

00:35:34.200 --> 00:35:36.833
on the Leopold Straße,
which was a meeting point during daytime.

00:35:37.367 --> 00:35:41.300
Everyone would come in, and I would sit there as well.

00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:46.067
And Wim came in, too, saying "Hi, Heinz,
how are you", and so on.

00:35:46.133 --> 00:35:47.967
We sat at the table

00:35:48.033 --> 00:35:49.933
and I asked: "Do you want a cookie?"

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:52.600
He said: "Is there something in it?"
I didn't know exactly,

00:35:52.667 --> 00:35:55.233
how much was in it.
I said, "Not really".

00:35:55.667 --> 00:35:59.600
Then he ate three cookies

00:35:59.667 --> 00:36:02.667
and nothing would have happened then.
But I did not know

00:36:02.733 --> 00:36:04.933
that he went to the
discotheque afterwards,

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:07.100
and had several
whiskeys in a row.

00:36:07.167 --> 00:36:08.067
Tiffanys

00:36:08.833 --> 00:36:10.200
was the name, Tiffanys.

00:36:11.367 --> 00:36:13.400
That was it, right!

00:36:16.533 --> 00:36:18.267
That was really good at the time.

00:36:19.467 --> 00:36:22.900
Keith Richards also played there,
and all that kind of stuff.

00:36:24.533 --> 00:36:28.100
When they recorded here at the time,

00:36:28.167 --> 00:36:29.600
at the Arabella Haus.

00:36:29.867 --> 00:36:31.367
The Stones really do love Munich.

00:36:34.367 --> 00:36:38.200
Somehow we were the whole troupe there,
Lemke troupe and whatnot.

00:36:40.200 --> 00:36:43.967
They always had
the whole gin bottles on the table.

00:36:45.700 --> 00:36:49.233
And Tonics would be brought over.
It was always wild.

00:36:49.633 --> 00:36:50.733
Super wild.

00:36:51.600 --> 00:36:53.633
Suddenly Wenders came in,

00:36:55.367 --> 00:36:57.900
completely confused, and he stood
there for a minute.

00:36:57.967 --> 00:37:00.600
Then he grabbed me somehow,
as far as I remember,

00:37:00.667 --> 00:37:02.267
and he said: "I have to go to the hospital".

00:37:03.433 --> 00:37:04.633
I said: "Wait, what?"

00:37:05.833 --> 00:37:08.100
"Heinz gave me a cookie".

00:37:09.333 --> 00:37:10.400
I said: "So what?"

00:37:11.067 --> 00:37:13.067
"I can't take it anymore,
I have to go to the hospital".

00:37:13.133 --> 00:37:15.433
Then I drove him to
the hospital in Schwabing.

00:37:17.333 --> 00:37:18.567
To the ER.

00:37:19.100 --> 00:37:24.200
He lay there on his bed, saying:
"Call Edda".

00:37:26.933 --> 00:37:30.600
So we did that, and then I just
went away at some point.

00:37:31.433 --> 00:37:34.333
I didn't know about all that,
was sat at the "Nest" again the next day.

00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.433
Klaus Lemke stormed over to me,
saying: "Heinz, you murderer of Wim!"

00:37:37.767 --> 00:37:40.367
I said: "Excuse me? What is going on there?"

00:37:40.733 --> 00:37:44.033
He said: "Wim is at the hospital,

00:37:44.100 --> 00:37:48.267
because of a totally life-threatening
circulatory breakdown".

00:37:49.367 --> 00:37:52.267
Because of the whiskey and the
alcohol, he...that is the opposite...

00:37:52.433 --> 00:37:54.633
You should never do that,
when you smoke pot,

00:37:54.700 --> 00:37:58.867
or eat cookies, you should not
drink a lot of whiskey afterwards.

00:37:58.933 --> 00:38:00.633
That is totally out of the question.

00:38:01.133 --> 00:38:04.067
That is why he collapsed
at the discotheque

00:38:04.133 --> 00:38:06.433
and was brought to the hospital
with blue light.

00:38:06.500 --> 00:38:08.667
I learned about all
this only later.

00:38:09.200 --> 00:38:12.633
I was incredibly sorry about it.

00:38:12.700 --> 00:38:15.500
I did not want that. I didn't know
how much pot was in it.

00:38:15.567 --> 00:38:17.967
I received the cookies
from a female friend,

00:38:18.033 --> 00:38:21.567
and I said: "I'll take them with me.
Always fun to eat something

00:38:21.633 --> 00:38:24.400
and stuff". I did not eat these
cookies nonstop,

00:38:24.467 --> 00:38:27.367
but just once in a while.
Maybe one or two.

00:38:27.433 --> 00:38:28.833
He had eaten all three.

00:38:29.600 --> 00:38:34.467
And then he made this mistake,
that he

00:38:34.533 --> 00:38:38.133
drank those whiskeys,
those Jim Beams.

00:38:38.667 --> 00:38:41.000
My life had been alright,
up to that point.

00:38:45.067 --> 00:38:48.600
I didn't have much to do with drugs.
I did experiment a bit,

00:38:48.667 --> 00:38:50.300
but I was not very attracted to it.

00:38:53.933 --> 00:38:56.967
I participated in a few LSD trips and thought that

00:38:57.700 --> 00:38:58.833
was somewhat silly.

00:38:59.633 --> 00:39:02.467
Although, it was incredible, too,
I did experience some stuff because of it.

00:39:02.833 --> 00:39:05.100
But it was nothing that
enriched me.

00:39:05.167 --> 00:39:08.600
I had nothing to do with that anymore.

00:39:09.733 --> 00:39:14.567
Until I unwillingly
had too much to do with it

00:39:16.233 --> 00:39:17.933
and collapsed, and, oh well,

00:39:18.633 --> 00:39:22.500
at the hospital, all the doctors surrounded me,
and they didn't know

00:39:22.567 --> 00:39:25.300
how to lower my pulse anymore.

00:39:26.467 --> 00:39:30.400
It was at 200, 230.
So just short of heart fibrillation.

00:39:31.900 --> 00:39:34.267
They were looking down
on me in a baffled way.

00:39:34.933 --> 00:39:38.133
And then I somehow passed out
at some point.

00:40:00.133 --> 00:40:01.967
Until I woke up again and thought,

00:40:03.433 --> 00:40:06.767
it is really funny that I am waking up.
It should be over by now.

00:40:08.900 --> 00:40:10.933
Then they said that they had come through.

00:40:12.600 --> 00:40:13.633
I was quite surprised.

00:40:15.700 --> 00:40:19.100
In the time after that, they
treated me for a while.

00:40:19.167 --> 00:40:22.733
I also had severe liver damage,
i.e., Hepatitis.

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:28.033
And a heart attack at the same time,

00:40:29.133 --> 00:40:31.067
that I went through or because of that,

00:40:32.533 --> 00:40:35.333
had to go through, at least according to the ECG.

00:40:37.433 --> 00:40:40.400
After that, I would
walk around like some kind of vegetable.

00:40:40.867 --> 00:40:44.500
I had no idea anymore, what I should be doing.
Didn't know what I was living for, and

00:40:44.867 --> 00:40:46.200
how I should be living.

00:40:49.733 --> 00:40:53.700
Got heart palpitations all the time,
so the same conditions

00:40:54.700 --> 00:40:57.633
as with that overdose.

00:40:58.000 --> 00:40:59.967
With each excitement, I would

00:41:01.433 --> 00:41:06.100
instantly have a pulse of 200,
and break out in a sweat.

00:41:09.333 --> 00:41:12.933
Oh well, as it then happens, no

00:41:15.600 --> 00:41:17.667
feelings of self worth were left whatsoever.

00:41:18.833 --> 00:41:21.100
I did not know
who I was anymore.

00:41:23.033 --> 00:41:24.500
And how I should continue to live.

00:42:05.367 --> 00:42:09.500
I started a pretty classical
Freudian analysis.

00:42:10.267 --> 00:42:11.833
So I got someone who was

00:42:13.267 --> 00:42:15.700
quite old already, late 70s.

00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:18.933
Dr. Marseille, just like the city.

00:42:20.267 --> 00:42:21.367
And as he was,

00:42:25.100 --> 00:42:27.567
in the story of Freud's life,

00:42:28.033 --> 00:42:31.733
when you look at the first photos,
as he was teaching in Vienna,

00:42:33.633 --> 00:42:37.867
his first class of students,
my Dr. Marseille is right in the middle of it.

00:42:37.933 --> 00:42:40.567
So he was a student of Freud
from the very beginning,

00:42:40.633 --> 00:42:44.733
and did perform analysis
in a classic Freudian way.

00:42:45.333 --> 00:42:47.400
Really classic.
Six days a week.

00:42:48.433 --> 00:42:49.767
The only day off was Sunday.

00:42:50.867 --> 00:42:52.333
One hour per day.

00:42:53.733 --> 00:42:54.633
Without a pause.

00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:57.933
Except for the four or five weeks

00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:01.033
when he was on holidays himself.
At that time, I shot my movie.

00:43:01.100 --> 00:43:02.767
That was my graduation film.

00:43:03.733 --> 00:43:06.400
Summer in the City.

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:11.133
This guy that ran around so unrelated, like a
ghost through the landscape,

00:43:11.633 --> 00:43:13.367
that was me indeed.

00:43:14.600 --> 00:43:16.967
Someone, who somehow
tries to start over again.

00:43:18.267 --> 00:43:21.267
Who tries to somehow bring meaning
back to his life.

00:44:42.767 --> 00:44:46.100
And this person that I was, who

00:44:46.167 --> 00:44:48.667
was quite scared of contact and
conflict,

00:44:49.567 --> 00:44:53.233
learned quite a lot
in that time of analysis.

00:44:54.067 --> 00:44:57.933
And eventually also
from this death experience,

00:44:58.633 --> 00:45:01.233
from this overdose
that I had taken,

00:45:04.900 --> 00:45:06.467
it was an enormous lesson for me.

00:45:06.767 --> 00:45:07.633
I have no idea

00:45:08.933 --> 00:45:11.367
what would have become of me,
had I not experienced this.

00:45:11.433 --> 00:45:14.367
Or if I hadn't experienced
this healing

00:45:14.433 --> 00:45:17.167
that I eventually
felt in the seven

00:45:17.233 --> 00:45:19.567
years of psychoanalysis
that I went through.

00:45:37.200 --> 00:45:39.633
And now I know
why you are called "Manana".

00:45:41.933 --> 00:45:43.800
Because you are only coming back tomorrow.

00:45:45.333 --> 00:45:47.033
I hope you have supplies with you.

00:45:47.900 --> 00:45:51.000
You can take a few ducks
and let them be prepared for you.

00:45:57.033 --> 00:45:59.300
They will stand for
the next ten hours now.

00:46:03.933 --> 00:46:04.800
Blisters.

00:46:21.233 --> 00:46:23.467
The American Friend.
Alice in the Cities.

00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:28.833
Lisbon Story. False Movement.
Chambre 666.

00:46:29.600 --> 00:46:33.533
The Scarlett Letter.
The State of Things.

00:46:33.600 --> 00:46:36.233
Alice in the Cities.
Notebook on cities and clothes.

00:46:38.600 --> 00:46:41.600
Wings of Desire. Paris-Texas.

00:46:43.467 --> 00:46:44.867
What should I put in it?

00:46:45.267 --> 00:46:46.700
The Scarlett Letter.

00:46:47.667 --> 00:46:50.100
The Scarlett Letter,
of all things.

00:46:50.333 --> 00:46:51.700
Did you get it over with?

00:46:52.167 --> 00:46:54.633
I'm not up for that at all.
Okay then.

00:46:56.600 --> 00:47:01.967
I'm not up for that at all.

00:47:07.467 --> 00:47:09.167
- What?
- Someone is drilling.

00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:10.533
Someone is drilling a hole.

00:47:11.067 --> 00:47:13.667
Do you want to watch the
Scarlett Letter with us?

00:47:14.833 --> 00:47:16.000
Come in.

00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:21.833
It is not that great that you'd have
to drill a hole in the wall.

00:47:23.233 --> 00:47:26.100
And here, the performance
of Rüdiger Vogler starts.

00:47:26.667 --> 00:47:29.967
Historic performance
in the Scarlett Letter.

00:47:31.233 --> 00:47:34.133
Because here he will be
discovered by the little Pearl,

00:47:34.200 --> 00:47:37.433
and that is the scene
where the two of them are together.

00:47:38.600 --> 00:47:40.800
That is why I have shot
Alice in the Cities.

00:47:42.567 --> 00:47:45.133
That was the only scene
that I enjoyed.

00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:51.233
The rest of the film was a torture.

00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:54.633
Well, that is neat.

00:47:56.233 --> 00:47:59.767
Even Senta Berger was suddenly
in a totally different mood.

00:47:59.833 --> 00:48:02.100
Uh, Milka.

00:48:02.333 --> 00:48:03.200
Precisely!

00:48:03.267 --> 00:48:04.067
So?

00:48:04.733 --> 00:48:05.633
Exactly.

00:48:06.300 --> 00:48:07.133
Dada!

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:10.267
My old ego.

00:48:12.967 --> 00:48:15.667
Instead of alter ego, we would always say
"my old ego".

00:48:17.667 --> 00:48:18.767
Rüdiger.

00:48:20.133 --> 00:48:21.333
I met him

00:48:22.200 --> 00:48:26.000
in 1970,

00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:28.767
when I lived in Frankfurt for a year.

00:48:31.467 --> 00:48:34.100
I had this screenplay,
the novel by Peter,

00:48:34.467 --> 00:48:36.200
The Goalie's Anxiety at the Penalty Kick,

00:48:36.867 --> 00:48:39.100
and there was this part of the village idiot.

00:48:41.233 --> 00:48:45.267
Rüdiger, will you forgive me,
but that was your first part with me.

00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:46.967
The village idiot.

00:48:47.533 --> 00:48:49.767
When seeing and meeting someone for the first time,

00:48:49.833 --> 00:48:52.300
you will have only

00:48:53.367 --> 00:48:54.433
peripheral impressions.

00:48:54.500 --> 00:48:59.167
So, a tall man, lots of hair,
big nose, big glasses.

00:48:59.833 --> 00:49:00.933
Big mouth.

00:49:02.033 --> 00:49:03.700
Soft nature.

00:49:04.200 --> 00:49:06.133
Alice in the Cities was actually

00:49:08.033 --> 00:49:10.533
the movie that was most
important for my life.

00:49:11.333 --> 00:49:13.733
I did project everything
onto Rüdiger there,

00:49:14.500 --> 00:49:18.567
everything you could only
project as a director

00:49:19.333 --> 00:49:20.400
onto your main character.

00:49:21.933 --> 00:49:23.433
My alter ego.

00:49:23.833 --> 00:49:26.467
That was, so to speak, my first

00:49:28.167 --> 00:49:30.600
great movie work.

00:49:31.533 --> 00:49:34.400
I was just incredibly happy.

00:49:34.467 --> 00:49:38.433
It was one of my happiest times.

00:49:38.967 --> 00:49:40.300
And it showed, too.

00:49:41.633 --> 00:49:46.833
I was absolutely happy
making that movie, every day.

00:49:47.967 --> 00:49:52.667
Alice in the Cities was really
the movie that made me realize

00:49:53.133 --> 00:49:54.833
that this would become my profession.

00:49:55.733 --> 00:49:57.700
That was the turning point for me.

00:49:57.767 --> 00:50:00.600
I was about to quit
making movies.

00:50:01.567 --> 00:50:04.400
The Scarlett Letter
had been a disappointment.

00:50:05.600 --> 00:50:07.767
With this movie, I put
all on one card,

00:50:07.833 --> 00:50:11.000
I wanted to prove to myself, that
I could do something that others couldn't do.

00:50:11.067 --> 00:50:13.433
That I could tell a story in
different ways than others.

00:50:30.200 --> 00:50:32.633
There are actually many

00:50:34.667 --> 00:50:37.467
fragments, but they
are always connected.

00:50:37.533 --> 00:50:40.833
So, cycling through New York
on a tandem.

00:50:41.500 --> 00:50:45.167
Going to an ice cream cafe,
where they had hundreds

00:50:45.233 --> 00:50:47.167
of varieties, as far as I'm concerned.

00:50:47.600 --> 00:50:51.800
And getting a huge ice cream with,
I don't know, 10 or 15 scoops.

00:50:53.167 --> 00:50:55.500
Those are the memories from that time.

00:50:55.833 --> 00:50:59.067
These real events were
always connected with the movies somehow.

00:50:59.867 --> 00:51:02.333
That was very important. He was everywhere.

00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:04.667
When I look inside myself,

00:51:04.733 --> 00:51:06.767
he is everywhere.

00:51:07.233 --> 00:51:09.867
That he had me in his
arms so often somewhere,

00:51:09.933 --> 00:51:13.033
that was apparently nothing special
or strange,

00:51:13.100 --> 00:51:14.233
or artificial.

00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:16.767
I am touched by that now,
when I see that today,

00:51:16.833 --> 00:51:18.667
I think it's very sweet.

00:51:19.133 --> 00:51:23.033
How I am carried there wrapped in blankets, on his arms,

00:51:23.100 --> 00:51:27.067
with such naturalness.

00:51:27.133 --> 00:51:30.300
I find that quite beautiful.

00:51:30.700 --> 00:51:32.233
Alice in the Cities contains

00:51:32.300 --> 00:51:36.333
one of the most beautiful scenes

00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:38.833
of the cinema in general, I think.

00:51:39.167 --> 00:51:43.933
At the ice cream parlor, when a boy
hears a song

00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:46.333
at the music box.

00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:51.233
She says, the grandma, after we
search for that grandma all the time,

00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:52.400
and where she is supposed to live,

00:51:52.833 --> 00:51:54.567
in Wuppertal, and then she suddenly says:

00:51:55.233 --> 00:51:57.067
"The grandma does not live in Wuppertal".

00:51:57.767 --> 00:51:59.933
I could have reacted
differently then.

00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:01.500
I could have yelled at her.

00:52:01.567 --> 00:52:04.533
I could have said:
"Now you kiss my ass".

00:52:04.600 --> 00:52:06.500
I could have slapped her.

00:52:06.567 --> 00:52:08.567
I could have done who knows what.

00:52:09.033 --> 00:52:11.033
But I think
I do almost nothing.

00:52:11.500 --> 00:52:14.367
That is a very long scene without words.

00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:16.867
I think I only have an ice cream spoon.

00:52:17.300 --> 00:52:20.400
Then I go to the bathroom,
look at myself in the mirror and say:

00:52:20.467 --> 00:52:21.500
"Oh golly".

00:52:23.500 --> 00:52:27.800
One of the main experiences

00:52:27.867 --> 00:52:30.967
or qualities
that I remember

00:52:31.033 --> 00:52:33.033
and keep in my memory

00:52:35.600 --> 00:52:39.700
to this day, is
that he was always

00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.633
very close to the camera while shooting

00:52:44.033 --> 00:52:47.267
and that he would observe very attentively.

00:52:48.033 --> 00:52:52.467
He is the only person who, as far as
I'm concerned, would really see you.

00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:53.700
That was power.

00:52:54.033 --> 00:52:59.267
Every minute movement,
each move, no matter how small,

00:52:59.600 --> 00:53:02.967
on the face, whether originating
from the inside via the eyes

00:53:03.033 --> 00:53:04.367
or from the mouth,

00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:07.533
he was the only one, about whom I can say,

00:53:08.333 --> 00:53:09.967
you could rely on him.

00:53:10.033 --> 00:53:13.433
His talent is in seeing
how you are.

00:53:15.933 --> 00:53:20.500
He observes you.
Also, when you aren't shooting.

00:53:20.633 --> 00:53:24.900
Like, during breakfast or in the morning,
or in the evenings after shooting.

00:53:25.867 --> 00:53:28.367
Or how you would sit there during a break.

00:53:29.733 --> 00:53:32.467
It would happen that he

00:53:34.300 --> 00:53:35.833
would ask for postures like that,

00:53:36.833 --> 00:53:39.767
postures you'd have in private,

00:53:39.967 --> 00:53:42.000
to be used in front of the camera.

00:53:46.700 --> 00:53:48.133
I have called a few times.

00:53:52.367 --> 00:53:53.867
Are you feeling unwell?

00:53:57.400 --> 00:53:58.333
No!

00:54:03.933 --> 00:54:07.133
I really think Edda
was investing something from herself.

00:54:07.200 --> 00:54:11.667
Because the way she says it,
I find her so incredibly fascinating,

00:54:11.733 --> 00:54:13.667
the way she stands at the door.

00:54:14.633 --> 00:54:19.133
How she says... Her charisma.

00:54:19.500 --> 00:54:22.567
How she speaks her sentences.
I find that to be unique.

00:54:22.933 --> 00:54:27.067
An actor cannot do that.
She wasn't an actress either.

00:54:28.667 --> 00:54:32.333
She was so centered and so much herself,

00:54:32.833 --> 00:54:35.200
because it does, as I believe,

00:54:36.267 --> 00:54:40.367
also come from own experience
and knowledge,

00:54:40.433 --> 00:54:42.300
that you could speak such sentences.

00:54:43.367 --> 00:54:44.900
It has totally blown me away.

00:54:46.900 --> 00:54:48.867
But that was already
the case for you.

00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:53.300
You do not need to
travel to America for that.

00:54:56.067 --> 00:54:57.633
You are totally blown away

00:54:58.467 --> 00:55:00.667
when you loose
your sense of self.

00:55:02.067 --> 00:55:03.700
You have lost that a long time ago.

00:55:06.133 --> 00:55:07.967
That is why you always need proof.

00:55:08.467 --> 00:55:10.500
Proof that you still exist.

00:55:11.567 --> 00:55:14.200
You treat your stories and experiences

00:55:15.133 --> 00:55:17.467
as if you were
handling raw eggs.

00:55:18.767 --> 00:55:20.933
As if you were the only one,
who experiences something.

00:55:21.967 --> 00:55:24.033
That is why you keep taking
these photos.

00:55:24.533 --> 00:55:26.033
That way, you have something concrete.

00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:30.400
Another piece of proof that
it was you, who has seen something.

00:55:35.700 --> 00:55:37.567
That is also why you came here.

00:55:40.867 --> 00:55:42.200
So that someone would listen to you.

00:55:43.567 --> 00:55:46.767
To you and your stories
that you are basically just telling yourself.

00:55:47.233 --> 00:55:51.200
But all that I wanted at the time,
was to stay together with Wim.

00:55:51.700 --> 00:55:54.367
And...

00:55:57.267 --> 00:55:59.700
somehow you then fight for your life.

00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:04.033
So that means,

00:56:04.933 --> 00:56:08.100
I did not know that at the time,
that you have to break up.

00:56:08.167 --> 00:56:09.000
I wrote the

00:56:10.267 --> 00:56:13.633
Dialogue by Philip Winter,
as he was called the first time,

00:56:15.967 --> 00:56:20.233
how he wants to
spend the night

00:56:21.633 --> 00:56:22.900
with his old girlfriend.

00:56:25.200 --> 00:56:29.833
And I referred to conversations

00:56:29.900 --> 00:56:32.833
between the two of us,
between Edda and myself.

00:56:33.033 --> 00:56:35.367
So, I was trying

00:56:37.467 --> 00:56:40.600
to cope with dialogues
we had had a year

00:56:40.933 --> 00:56:42.100
or two ago.

00:56:46.167 --> 00:56:47.067
Take a look!

00:56:47.967 --> 00:56:49.400
- Stop?
- Yes, very briefly.

00:57:02.533 --> 00:57:03.533
Yep.

00:57:04.967 --> 00:57:06.267
I was looking for that.

00:57:14.833 --> 00:57:16.333
Is that not a great forest edge?

00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:18.633
There cannot be a
better forest edge.

00:57:27.333 --> 00:57:31.233
In the movies
you made with Wim,

00:57:31.867 --> 00:57:35.833
the respective long term
partner was always present.

00:57:36.733 --> 00:57:39.967
Did that cause problems
during the shoot?

00:57:41.333 --> 00:57:44.667
Well, I do not like that so much,
because I don't know exactly,

00:57:46.033 --> 00:57:47.967
well, that is some kind of amalgam

00:57:48.033 --> 00:57:51.933
of professional and
personal interests,

00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:54.833
and of love and all kinds of things.

00:57:55.300 --> 00:57:58.867
When you are outside of it,
it's always a bit difficult.

00:57:58.933 --> 00:58:02.633
Because you cannot see clearly, regarding...

00:58:04.700 --> 00:58:06.933
....especially regarding
women.

00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:10.567
But that was a part of Wim,
and you had to

00:58:11.333 --> 00:58:14.133
tolerate it in as generous a manner as possible,

00:58:14.200 --> 00:58:17.133
because otherwise you'd have
problems with yourself.

00:58:17.200 --> 00:58:20.200
Because that is not okay.
She was an important partner.

00:58:21.767 --> 00:58:25.267
Do you know why it was so important
to him, that you were with him at the set?

00:58:25.667 --> 00:58:27.333
Maybe he also needed protection.

00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:32.333
I mean, it is like
in Alice in the Cities.

00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:35.033
Two women appear in it,
with whom he was living together, Edda

00:58:35.867 --> 00:58:39.200
and with, what was her name, Didi.
He wasn't with her for long.

00:58:40.267 --> 00:58:45.000
That is not an acting production.

00:58:45.067 --> 00:58:50.033
He is telling a part of his life.
That has nothing to do with Diddi and Edda,

00:58:50.300 --> 00:58:55.533
that he wanted to stage them,
he wanted to invest something of himself.

00:58:58.933 --> 00:59:00.867
Yes, so in Alice in the Cities

00:59:01.833 --> 00:59:05.867
I actually really dared to

00:59:08.867 --> 00:59:11.833
have all women in my life
appear at once.

00:59:15.667 --> 00:59:16.633
Even though

00:59:18.033 --> 00:59:22.367
the relationship with Lisa actually
just started at the end of the movie.

00:59:23.733 --> 00:59:26.133
- Did the three of them know of each other?
- Yes, sure.

00:59:28.200 --> 00:59:29.733
They knew of each other.

00:59:37.933 --> 00:59:40.900
Somehow, that was a fixed idea.

00:59:41.733 --> 00:59:44.567
20 years of my life,
when it couldn't have been different

00:59:44.633 --> 00:59:47.567
than having a long, committed relationship

00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:52.833
with the woman,
who stands in front of the screen

00:59:55.300 --> 00:59:59.167
and about whom you
are telling a story.

01:00:06.133 --> 01:00:08.433
I am so glad
to have left that behind.

01:00:12.067 --> 01:00:14.567
In his earlier movies, women

01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:16.567
are not that strongly represented.

01:00:17.233 --> 01:00:21.867
Actually, my understanding
was that the

01:00:22.967 --> 01:00:24.433
absence of women

01:00:26.300 --> 01:00:29.533
also describes the longing for
women in his movies.

01:00:30.333 --> 01:00:31.633
In his earlier movies.

01:00:31.700 --> 01:00:34.533
Well, Alice is a girl.

01:00:34.867 --> 01:00:39.333
But that is a female person,
and she is portrayed in the best way.

01:00:39.967 --> 01:00:42.700
And that is, I think,
the way he likes to see women most.

01:00:44.033 --> 01:00:44.933
Childlike.

01:00:45.600 --> 01:00:50.033
But the women who are his age
and are now his counterpart,

01:00:50.100 --> 01:00:53.533
they have never worked for me
in the movies.

01:00:55.133 --> 01:00:58.833
And, I also think that he...

01:01:01.600 --> 01:01:06.000
I have talked to him about
what the reason for that was. I think, he

01:01:08.433 --> 01:01:10.300
had an almost traumatic experience.

01:01:10.367 --> 01:01:14.500
A long time ago, he was left
by a woman,

01:01:15.033 --> 01:01:16.100
by a girl,

01:01:18.500 --> 01:01:23.300
with whom he had a relationship. She left
him for his best friend.

01:01:26.200 --> 01:01:30.300
That was totally drastic for him.

01:01:30.367 --> 01:01:33.867
He also did not fight for her
or anything.

01:01:33.933 --> 01:01:36.633
He was kind of paralyzed afterwards.

01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:38.833
He could not fight it.

01:01:39.067 --> 01:01:42.667
Do you actually do anything else,
other than test drive?

01:01:45.033 --> 01:01:45.933
I am a pediatrician.

01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:47.333
What?

01:01:48.767 --> 01:01:50.233
Some kind of pediatrician.

01:01:57.400 --> 01:01:59.533
In Genoa, I separated
from my wife.

01:02:02.300 --> 01:02:03.633
I did not ask you that.

01:02:05.033 --> 01:02:06.700
Don't tell me your stories.

01:02:08.433 --> 01:02:09.633
But what do you want to know?

01:02:11.167 --> 01:02:12.033
Who you are.

01:02:14.133 --> 01:02:15.400
I am my story.

01:02:22.100 --> 01:02:25.267
The film is called In the Course of Time.

01:02:25.333 --> 01:02:28.667
And the word "time" also means
that a certain

01:02:30.267 --> 01:02:33.367
Zeitgeist is present in the movie.

01:02:34.333 --> 01:02:37.900
When you are of a certain age,
you will have left a woman by then,

01:02:37.967 --> 01:02:39.267
or the other way around,

01:02:39.333 --> 01:02:41.400
you will have been left.

01:02:41.833 --> 01:02:46.333
And you don't quite know

01:02:46.567 --> 01:02:48.033
how to continue your life.

01:02:49.933 --> 01:02:51.667
In the Course of Time, it is...

01:02:55.667 --> 01:02:57.467
there are these two male characters,

01:02:58.433 --> 01:03:00.267
who only in the end

01:03:01.100 --> 01:03:03.567
are differentiated from each other,

01:03:04.867 --> 01:03:06.267
and only in the end, they actually

01:03:06.633 --> 01:03:10.200
also learn from each other,
and therefore now know who they both are

01:03:10.267 --> 01:03:11.500
in relation to the other.

01:03:12.400 --> 01:03:16.800
Mostly, they have to learn
how to deal with conflicts.

01:03:17.967 --> 01:03:20.933
Kamikaze goes to his dad

01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:23.733
and does something,
that he does for the first time

01:03:23.800 --> 01:03:27.067
in his life.
He tells his father something

01:03:28.567 --> 01:03:30.067
about his own mother.

01:03:32.267 --> 01:03:34.533
He also tells his father,
to keep his mouth shut

01:03:34.600 --> 01:03:35.800
and let him speak now.

01:03:36.700 --> 01:03:37.933
Finally speak.

01:03:38.433 --> 01:03:40.333
If you start talking,
I will leave.

01:03:49.167 --> 01:03:51.067
Last time I wanted to
talk to you,

01:03:52.400 --> 01:03:53.767
I had to just listen.

01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:57.333
Embarrassed,

01:03:58.333 --> 01:04:00.033
I stood beside your desk.

01:04:01.567 --> 01:04:03.733
Because I did not want to admit

01:04:06.267 --> 01:04:07.467
that you are chatty.

01:04:09.433 --> 01:04:11.333
That I think of you as chatty.

01:04:16.967 --> 01:04:18.300
Mom also never had a chance to speak.

01:04:21.233 --> 01:04:22.767
That is what I wanted to talk about with you.

01:04:41.267 --> 01:04:42.733
That she got nowhere

01:04:44.133 --> 01:04:45.133
in her life with you.

01:04:51.867 --> 01:04:53.000
Shut up.

01:04:54.033 --> 01:04:56.400
I also experienced that
with my father.

01:04:59.467 --> 01:05:01.033
This accusation, that he...

01:05:01.933 --> 01:05:04.767
That my mother could never
speak, or

01:05:05.900 --> 01:05:07.467
never...

01:05:11.933 --> 01:05:14.433
...was allowed to express herself.

01:05:15.933 --> 01:05:17.433
Allowed to express herself.

01:05:51.933 --> 01:05:54.400
Basically, this for me is a common
theme through all the movies,

01:05:54.467 --> 01:05:55.700
the inability

01:06:02.467 --> 01:06:06.200
to express what's inside,
what he thinks, what people think.

01:06:08.167 --> 01:06:09.067
And this is how

01:06:15.100 --> 01:06:17.500
the misfortune is created, or the...

01:06:22.933 --> 01:06:26.267
For me, these are all people
who are on the go,

01:06:26.333 --> 01:06:29.667
looking for something.

01:06:30.600 --> 01:06:32.167
And they try to be honest.

01:06:32.533 --> 01:06:33.800
Or they are searching for that.

01:06:36.833 --> 01:06:41.367
Therefore, I think it is a continuation
of his family.

01:06:41.433 --> 01:06:45.767
So not just that which has been,
but he also tries to

01:06:46.067 --> 01:06:48.100
work through it in his movies.

01:06:48.767 --> 01:06:50.733
In his life,
but also in his movies.

01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:52.833
Which probably

01:06:54.900 --> 01:06:58.433
is a bit of a connection
between his different films,

01:06:58.933 --> 01:07:03.300
that are really different from one another,
no matter how similar they may seem,

01:07:04.767 --> 01:07:06.233
because they are different,

01:07:06.700 --> 01:07:09.967
and that tends to probably
create a connection,

01:07:10.700 --> 01:07:12.500
there is always someone who is alone.

01:07:13.233 --> 01:07:16.800
At some point in the movie,
that person is totally alone.

01:07:18.533 --> 01:07:20.867
I think that is something that appears in all of his films.

01:07:28.467 --> 01:07:29.600
Also the last one.

01:07:32.067 --> 01:07:34.867
It would be silly to say
that it's mostly about men.

01:07:37.600 --> 01:07:38.500
But it's true.

01:07:40.333 --> 01:07:41.900
But I wouldn't go as far as that.

01:07:41.967 --> 01:07:44.933
I think his first movies
show very well,

01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:49.000
how women are an enigma to him,

01:07:49.067 --> 01:07:50.367
and how men are

01:07:52.433 --> 01:07:56.133
so easy to handle,
so that you do not need to say much.

01:07:57.300 --> 01:07:58.567
Or that you somehow...

01:07:59.800 --> 01:08:03.233
For instance "In the Course of Time", where

01:08:04.133 --> 01:08:07.000
right at the beginning, Zischler
races into the water with his Beetle...

01:08:42.300 --> 01:08:46.167
Every woman would say:
"What happened?"

01:08:46.233 --> 01:08:48.832
They would say: "This and that
happened".

01:08:49.200 --> 01:08:52.033
We would start to talk like crazy, all
at once and tell the story.

01:08:52.466 --> 01:08:54.933
And the two of them, what do they do?
They say nothing.

01:08:56.167 --> 01:08:59.667
That is a phenomenon.
I think it is great how he portrays that.

01:08:59.733 --> 01:09:02.100
It shows

01:09:02.832 --> 01:09:07.267
the male way of being in a great way,
and very tenderly and lovingly.

01:09:26.267 --> 01:09:28.167
We do share that. I don't know.

01:09:33.033 --> 01:09:34.500
I think we do not talk much.

01:09:37.133 --> 01:09:41.267
It has always been that way. I tend to talk more.
But rather because of embarrassment.

01:09:42.600 --> 01:09:46.567
Because sometimes it is not that easy

01:09:48.567 --> 01:09:51.567
to accept his silence.

01:09:51.633 --> 01:09:54.400
There are a few men
with whom he likes

01:09:55.167 --> 01:09:56.233
to have an exchange.

01:09:57.633 --> 01:09:59.767
Then I'll say: "You guys go alone".

01:10:00.400 --> 01:10:04.633
I am glad when he
nourishes these male friendships, because I

01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:10.900
think it is important that he has
a counterpart.

01:10:11.233 --> 01:10:15.733
So, this theme, that he is always
the one who determines something

01:10:15.800 --> 01:10:16.933
and everyone follows him,

01:10:17.933 --> 01:10:19.933
that is a common thread
throughout his whole life.

01:10:20.433 --> 01:10:24.833
And that there will be people
who are opposite him

01:10:24.900 --> 01:10:27.733
and say by themselves,
what they think,

01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:32.667
and sometimes also
confront him with something or

01:10:33.867 --> 01:10:36.233
simply, not in the sense of
a confrontation,

01:10:36.300 --> 01:10:38.500
not in a negative sense,
but in a positive sense,

01:10:39.100 --> 01:10:41.800
where he has the chance to
grapple and deal with them,

01:10:42.167 --> 01:10:44.600
also constructively, where he can make progress,

01:10:45.867 --> 01:10:48.133
there is not at all enough of that.

01:10:49.233 --> 01:10:51.000
There is not at all enough of that in his daily life.

01:10:51.067 --> 01:10:55.400
Did you ever have
a fallout in your friendship

01:10:55.467 --> 01:10:59.200
or even a fight
that you remember?

01:11:01.100 --> 01:11:03.433
No, so far we didn't. No fight.

01:11:04.333 --> 01:11:08.600
No fight at all.
I can really fight, but with whom?

01:11:09.833 --> 01:11:14.300
I have the idea
that it is impossible to fight with him.

01:11:14.733 --> 01:11:16.900
Maybe others can,
but I cannot.

01:11:18.400 --> 01:11:20.933
Totally impossible.
Maybe almost a deficiency.

01:11:21.733 --> 01:11:22.600
He is just...

01:11:25.567 --> 01:11:26.733
He is not able to have an argument.

01:11:28.900 --> 01:11:30.867
Sometimes I would have liked
to fight with him.

01:11:31.900 --> 01:11:33.333
Liking is maybe exaggerated.

01:11:34.800 --> 01:11:36.400
And sometimes is also exaggerated.

01:11:37.133 --> 01:11:38.233
Just here and there.

01:11:38.667 --> 01:11:41.367
Sometimes you need someone,
and sometimes you don't need them.

01:11:41.800 --> 01:11:45.967
But that does not affect the substance
of a good acquaintance/relationship.

01:11:48.333 --> 01:11:52.667
Between Wim and myself,
there will be no kind of

01:11:52.733 --> 01:11:56.333
being offended or
something like that,

01:11:56.400 --> 01:12:00.500
being offended, when one of us
does not call or stuff like that.

01:12:00.567 --> 01:12:02.933
There is no such thing.
If I don't hear of him for two years.

01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:05.733
That does not affect
my relationship with Wim.

01:12:06.367 --> 01:12:07.367
Or vice versa.

01:12:08.667 --> 01:12:10.400
It is a constancy

01:12:11.200 --> 01:12:12.700
re. the acquaintance,

01:12:13.333 --> 01:12:16.133
which is close to friendship.

01:12:17.500 --> 01:12:20.433
But one needs to handle
the friendship carefully.

01:12:20.867 --> 01:12:22.633
It is a kind of friendship.

01:12:22.700 --> 01:12:26.200
But sometimes it is interrupted
by ten years

01:12:26.500 --> 01:12:29.300
of unilateral silence,
which isn't anything evil,

01:12:29.367 --> 01:12:33.767
but it has to do
with the nature of these people.

01:12:33.833 --> 01:12:36.167
In this case with his and mine.

01:12:36.433 --> 01:12:38.867
And he spent a long time in America, and I haven't.

01:12:39.533 --> 01:12:41.333
Was there also little contact during that time?

01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:47.000
I have experienced it with many people
that way, effortlessly...

01:12:47.067 --> 01:12:49.933
that you wouldn't have contact for
a long time and then get together

01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:52.600
again for work.
And it works that way,

01:12:52.667 --> 01:12:55.000
as if you had spoken
on the phone every day.

01:12:55.067 --> 01:12:57.933
I don't have any issue with that.
I do not need the constant...

01:12:59.733 --> 01:13:02.633
I don't know, it works differently.

01:13:08.967 --> 01:13:11.567
Now there are only five kilometers
left until "Himmelreich".

01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:14.067
I hope you are all ready.

01:13:17.333 --> 01:13:18.667
And then enter without further ado.

01:13:20.067 --> 01:13:22.033
You have to be really sweet about it.

01:13:26.133 --> 01:13:28.900
I am surprised that
there is no purgatory anywhere.

01:13:28.967 --> 01:13:30.500
That you can just enter like that.

01:13:32.533 --> 01:13:34.533
But you have to get through Teufelsmoor (Devil's Moor).

01:13:35.333 --> 01:13:36.500
Into Himmelreich.

01:13:42.900 --> 01:13:45.333
Well, the hero.

01:13:52.633 --> 01:13:54.033
I think

01:13:55.433 --> 01:13:59.733
that is from the time that Robbie and I
have shot "In the Course of Time".

01:13:59.800 --> 01:14:03.567
Maybe it is from the shooting
of "Alice in the Cities"...

01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:07.833
Yes, it is still Alice.
Yes, yes, These...

01:14:09.400 --> 01:14:12.033
He wore these stickers
when he shot Alice in the Cities.

01:14:12.100 --> 01:14:14.267
I was with the [unintelligible]
Recording manager

01:14:14.933 --> 01:14:17.633
and I have met this
cameraman there.

01:14:17.700 --> 01:14:20.400
That was his first movie
that he shot as a cameraman.

01:14:20.867 --> 01:14:21.867
Lena Christ.

01:14:22.467 --> 01:14:24.367
I was very impressed by how he shot that.

01:14:24.433 --> 01:14:29.133
Made friends with Robbie a bit.
He then shot my first film,

01:14:29.200 --> 01:14:31.733
in 35 mm,
namely "Alabama".

01:14:32.033 --> 01:14:33.367
In 1968.

01:14:34.967 --> 01:14:37.967
And after that, I did
not make movies with anyone else,

01:14:38.033 --> 01:14:39.000
for 20 years.

01:14:40.033 --> 01:14:43.100
Other than with this flying Dutchman.

01:14:43.867 --> 01:14:47.533
So you do not remember
that time so much?

01:14:48.367 --> 01:14:49.867
I do remember it, but...

01:14:55.700 --> 01:14:57.700
It's not like it
occupies my mind a lot.

01:15:01.167 --> 01:15:02.833
But hasn't it been some kind of,

01:15:04.700 --> 01:15:08.500
let's say, very formative,
very important time for Wim and yourself?

01:15:08.767 --> 01:15:10.767
This whole longtime collaboration?

01:15:11.700 --> 01:15:15.333
No, that is a too romantic view.
We never became real friends. Never.

01:15:16.867 --> 01:15:19.700
I do not think that
it was a real friendship.

01:15:20.700 --> 01:15:22.900
So was it purely a
work relationship?

01:15:25.233 --> 01:15:29.767
Did your relationship
to each other change over time?

01:15:29.833 --> 01:15:30.667
Yes!

01:15:32.200 --> 01:15:33.467
It's over now.

01:15:34.933 --> 01:15:37.200
And in what way has it changed?

01:15:44.800 --> 01:15:48.033
You have to ask Wim about that.
I have no answer to it.

01:15:50.967 --> 01:15:53.267
Robbie just was a
genius cameraman.

01:15:55.300 --> 01:15:58.267
I think we learned incredibly
much from each other.

01:15:58.600 --> 01:16:02.300
Because of the movies that we have
made together.

01:16:03.767 --> 01:16:07.333
Robbie's black and white in
"The Course of Time" was just

01:16:09.367 --> 01:16:11.667
one of the most beautiful black-and-white movies.

01:16:13.200 --> 01:16:16.833
Our best work, I thought at the time,
was "The American Friend":

01:16:18.167 --> 01:16:21.633
Much, much later,
we also shot "Until the End of the World" together.

01:16:22.700 --> 01:16:27.333
That was also the
movie that caused our split,

01:16:27.400 --> 01:16:28.600
in a certain way.

01:16:29.500 --> 01:16:31.467
Re. the organization, the energy.

01:16:32.267 --> 01:16:33.167
The morals.

01:16:34.167 --> 01:16:35.600
It took more than a year.

01:16:36.700 --> 01:16:40.800
There were several moments
where each of us said: "Now it's over".

01:16:43.667 --> 01:16:45.233
We can't do it anymore.

01:16:48.900 --> 01:16:52.500
But it did continue.
I just wanted

01:16:53.333 --> 01:16:58.433
to finish it. Somehow, I also owed
it to Klaus and my father,

01:16:58.500 --> 01:17:03.567
to not drop the thing I was telling them
about for ten years.

01:17:05.867 --> 01:17:07.233
I think that gave me

01:17:08.367 --> 01:17:11.567
the strength to
follow through with it.

01:17:14.166 --> 01:17:18.666
And maybe also to
stop at nothing socially.

01:17:20.733 --> 01:17:21.833
So to speak.

01:17:23.133 --> 01:17:26.933
For Robbie and myself
it was over, in the end.

01:17:29.067 --> 01:17:31.867
Our solidarity
had not survived that.

01:17:32.733 --> 01:17:36.800
We have made attempts afterwards
and worked on a few things.

01:17:36.867 --> 01:17:39.032
But somehow it was not like
it used to be.

01:17:39.633 --> 01:17:41.067
There was a crack in it.

01:17:41.666 --> 01:17:45.633
Would you say that all in all, those years

01:17:45.700 --> 01:17:48.600
between 1970 and 1978 were still a good time for you?

01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:49.833
Yes!

01:17:51.433 --> 01:17:52.367
Sure, yes.

01:18:00.500 --> 01:18:03.233
So was the disappointment more about
the fact that it didn't continue?

01:18:03.300 --> 01:18:05.433
No, not at all.

01:18:05.500 --> 01:18:10.700
The disappointment is that everything is
exactly as it is in the movie.

01:18:11.367 --> 01:18:13.333
And we make no exception at all.

01:18:16.267 --> 01:18:18.633
Despite the so called family group.

01:18:21.400 --> 01:18:26.666
Let's put it this way. For a certain time,
he was certainly very interested in me.

01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:31.933
Then you get older, and you change.

01:18:32.000 --> 01:18:35.967
Then that can become less,
and there is a replacement with other characters.

01:18:36.032 --> 01:18:39.833
America is a whole other story.

01:18:39.900 --> 01:18:44.100
What do you do with a German,
with a European over there in America.

01:18:44.166 --> 01:18:47.100
That somehow doesn't make much sense.

01:18:51.567 --> 01:18:55.467
Maybe that has changed.

01:18:55.532 --> 01:18:56.933
Perhaps it comes back.

01:18:57.000 --> 01:19:00.933
But perhaps it is still that way.
He, however, has totally different plans.

01:19:01.000 --> 01:19:01.967
I don't know.

01:19:02.833 --> 01:19:05.532
I think as a person he is somehow,

01:19:05.600 --> 01:19:06.967
as a presence,

01:19:07.532 --> 01:19:11.433
to talk to him or walk with him,

01:19:11.500 --> 01:19:16.233
so his physical presence
and his mental presence and such, it is

01:19:16.733 --> 01:19:19.166
for me almost greater,

01:19:19.233 --> 01:19:22.032
i.e., it impresses me almost more
than his work.

01:19:22.800 --> 01:19:24.800
Wim is a very
impressive person.

01:19:25.166 --> 01:19:26.700
Through his physical presence?

01:19:27.067 --> 01:19:28.567
Yes, by being Wim.

01:19:29.300 --> 01:19:32.233
That has to do with intelligence
and sensitivity

01:19:32.300 --> 01:19:35.200
and the relationship of these two things
with each other.

01:19:35.567 --> 01:19:38.532
It has to do with visual
possibilities.

01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:42.267
It has to do with his
perceptive abilities,

01:19:42.333 --> 01:19:44.333
which are very developed and very special.

01:19:45.100 --> 01:19:47.767
And it has to do with the fact

01:19:49.867 --> 01:19:51.367
that he can be silent.

01:19:52.700 --> 01:19:57.767
And that he orients himself under the
cover of that silence, this way or that way.

01:19:58.000 --> 01:19:59.700
That is often irritating.

01:20:00.067 --> 01:20:02.032
When he is silent,
you do not know exactly...

01:20:02.100 --> 01:20:03.200
I don't know anything then.

01:20:05.367 --> 01:20:06.400
So, can you read it?

01:20:06.967 --> 01:20:09.200
Yes, depth of field is fine.

01:20:09.833 --> 01:20:10.767
Works well!

01:20:35.800 --> 01:20:36.767
Like that!

01:20:37.333 --> 01:20:38.800
Let the cars pass.

01:20:50.367 --> 01:20:52.333
So this is what happens
when you rely

01:20:53.433 --> 01:20:55.467
too much on maps.

01:20:56.233 --> 01:20:59.133
These disappointments that
you cannot escape

01:20:59.967 --> 01:21:01.367
when you believe in names.

01:21:03.300 --> 01:21:06.400
When you really want to
get to Himmelreich

01:21:07.200 --> 01:21:09.600
and finally end up at
a shitty crossroads,

01:21:09.666 --> 01:21:11.900
where there is really absolutely nothing to see.

01:21:16.000 --> 01:21:18.633
But it could have...Everything was there.

01:21:19.733 --> 01:21:22.233
The dead moor. The "Teufelsmoor" (devil's moor).

01:21:24.867 --> 01:21:26.532
Neustadt am Rübenberge.

01:21:28.467 --> 01:21:30.032
And then this disappointment.

01:21:47.333 --> 01:21:50.900
I met Lisa while shooting
Alice in the Cities.

01:21:51.333 --> 01:21:52.900
She played Alice's mother then.

01:21:54.600 --> 01:21:57.767
I fell in love,
and we lived together.

01:21:59.200 --> 01:22:00.367
For seven or eight years.

01:22:01.600 --> 01:22:06.267
I found the photo. I kept it
because I think it's beautiful.

01:22:06.567 --> 01:22:10.767
It was surely taken a long time ago,
which is very idyllic.

01:22:11.666 --> 01:22:15.300
As you can see, there were a thousand kids
in my house.

01:22:15.367 --> 01:22:19.800
Almost every weekend, and Wim was
quite active.

01:22:19.867 --> 01:22:23.666
This is one of my favorite photos
between Wim and Bett.

01:22:24.600 --> 01:22:29.067
Was it an almost fatherly relationship
between the two of them, would you say?

01:22:29.700 --> 01:22:32.600
I very much had that impression
at the time.

01:22:33.400 --> 01:22:37.367
As I already told you,
there was a situation when Wim

01:22:38.833 --> 01:22:42.500
would also go to PTA meetings, where he'd say
that he was Patrick's father.

01:22:42.567 --> 01:22:44.166
I thought that was very beautiful.

01:22:44.233 --> 01:22:45.633
This is in the garden.

01:22:45.767 --> 01:22:47.233
What is hanging there in the background?

01:22:47.300 --> 01:22:49.067
I hung something of Mr. Handke there.

01:22:49.400 --> 01:22:53.233
And three years later,
a bottle of champagne.

01:22:53.367 --> 01:22:56.567
I don't know why I
hung him up there. These were reminiscences

01:22:56.633 --> 01:22:58.300
or, I don't know, some grief work.

01:22:58.666 --> 01:23:02.300
Because Peter used to
write a lot under this apple tree.

01:23:02.700 --> 01:23:04.500
I kept all of that,

01:23:04.567 --> 01:23:07.867
these are, as the saying goes,
also souvenirs.

01:23:09.500 --> 01:23:10.567
It was a great time.

01:23:10.633 --> 01:23:13.100
The house was a wonderful house.

01:23:13.166 --> 01:23:15.532
The Isar flowing alongside it.

01:23:17.300 --> 01:23:18.532
A peaceful time.

01:23:18.900 --> 01:23:21.067
They didn't worry much. Neither of them.

01:23:21.500 --> 01:23:24.000
I think Lisa's son, Patrick,

01:23:26.133 --> 01:23:29.400
who then was almost like
my son for a few years.

01:23:30.666 --> 01:23:33.300
We were like some kind of small family.

01:23:37.767 --> 01:23:39.933
But I was not fulfilled by that.

01:23:43.133 --> 01:23:47.433
Lisa was very attached to all
that we experienced there.

01:23:47.500 --> 01:23:51.200
Starting from the jukebox
to this house

01:23:51.267 --> 01:23:53.166
and the dog and the cat.

01:23:54.733 --> 01:23:56.500
There was also one situation

01:23:57.933 --> 01:24:00.700
where I was suffering from some kind
of talklessness.

01:24:00.767 --> 01:24:02.767
Or some kind of speechlessness.

01:24:03.200 --> 01:24:05.532
Talklessness is maybe
more correct.

01:24:07.467 --> 01:24:09.733
Then I went to the phone booth
and gave him a call.

01:24:09.800 --> 01:24:11.800
And he got very angry then.

01:24:13.367 --> 01:24:16.100
Arguing that I finally would
want to talk with him.

01:24:16.467 --> 01:24:19.067
He was sitting upstairs in the office and writing,
and I was downstairs. And somehow

01:24:19.532 --> 01:24:22.500
it happens that you only think
about the next movie,

01:24:22.567 --> 01:24:24.467
and you don't talk anymore.

01:24:25.133 --> 01:24:28.600
When I wasn't told something,
I wouldn't ask.

01:24:30.133 --> 01:24:34.900
It was always a voluntary kind of giving,
when I personally received an information.

01:24:35.467 --> 01:24:40.200
I noticed that I wasn't told things
and that made me suffer of course,

01:24:41.532 --> 01:24:44.567
and you think, why doesn't he call
a therapist

01:24:44.633 --> 01:24:48.933
or pay a therapist or does
not talk about something

01:24:49.000 --> 01:24:50.367
with me.

01:24:51.032 --> 01:24:54.433
I think it was because it had nothing to do
with me, but only with him.

01:24:55.467 --> 01:24:59.032
Sometimes it is so hard
to understand him,

01:24:59.100 --> 01:25:00.666
and what is happening inside him at the time.

01:25:01.233 --> 01:25:04.367
One would like to get
to know a bit more about him,

01:25:04.433 --> 01:25:06.300
and then I ask him
if he is drawing a bear.

01:25:06.567 --> 01:25:11.133
Then he manages to precisely
express how he is feeling.

01:25:12.333 --> 01:25:15.700
A typical one was this here.

01:25:15.767 --> 01:25:20.900
He left it as a letter
in the morning, got up early,

01:25:20.967 --> 01:25:22.500
I am exercising.

01:25:23.367 --> 01:25:27.400
And when I saw the little bear,
I went upstairs immediately,

01:25:27.467 --> 01:25:30.166
set the table in a beautiful way,
the breakfast table.

01:25:30.733 --> 01:25:33.400
So that he would feel good,
because it was clear

01:25:34.600 --> 01:25:35.567
how he was feeling.

01:25:36.067 --> 01:25:40.200
At the beginning, I used to think,
oh well, I am telling him something,

01:25:40.267 --> 01:25:41.500
and there is nothing in return.

01:25:41.800 --> 01:25:44.800
And then I thought he wouldn't listen
or had checked out.

01:25:46.666 --> 01:25:49.233
Then I would see that a day later,
two days later,

01:25:49.767 --> 01:25:54.433
there would be a reaction to
what I had said two days earlier.

01:25:55.400 --> 01:25:58.967
He put super much thought into it.
He was very attentive.

01:26:00.032 --> 01:26:01.267
And, uh,

01:26:02.767 --> 01:26:06.833
he was also very busy with it.
He'd often say something really great about it.

01:26:08.200 --> 01:26:10.700
Often, he cannot immediately say something about it.

01:26:11.200 --> 01:26:15.733
And that is why I just

01:26:16.233 --> 01:26:17.633
throw it out there now.

01:26:21.967 --> 01:26:25.367
When we talk, it is a conversation
with a time shift.

01:26:25.433 --> 01:26:27.233
I say something, and then

01:26:28.933 --> 01:26:31.000
it takes a while before
he says something in response.

01:26:32.333 --> 01:26:34.166
If I pressure him, it takes longer.

01:26:34.700 --> 01:26:36.166
That is what I have learned by now.

01:26:38.733 --> 01:26:42.467
You must absolutely not take it
personally, it is just his nature.

01:26:45.532 --> 01:26:48.467
Somehow, there is something autistic
about it, but in a positive sense.

01:26:48.532 --> 01:26:50.367
So, he

01:26:52.166 --> 01:26:55.733
will ponder it and can
not just talk about it,

01:26:57.133 --> 01:27:00.900
until the time is ripe and then he does.

01:27:02.633 --> 01:27:05.467
We also never talked about what
it would mean

01:27:05.532 --> 01:27:08.133
that he was going to America.
I assumed that

01:27:08.200 --> 01:27:10.933
the relationship could
handle him going away for a year.

01:27:11.467 --> 01:27:15.367
I thought I'd settle down
and make some

01:27:16.666 --> 01:27:18.200
movies, but the movies

01:27:20.200 --> 01:27:22.666
would not broaden my horizon anymore.

01:27:24.400 --> 01:27:26.067
I was terribly afraid of that.

01:27:27.532 --> 01:27:30.767
That I become someone who works with a routine, or that

01:27:32.267 --> 01:27:34.100
I do something because I know how it is being done.

01:27:34.166 --> 01:27:37.032
I went to America because I
did not know how things would work there.

01:27:37.367 --> 01:27:41.233
I wanted to continue making movies
and not know how to make them,

01:27:41.300 --> 01:27:45.333
movies that were about things
I hadn't yet told stories about.

01:27:45.400 --> 01:27:47.467
That I hadn't yet experimented with.

01:27:48.000 --> 01:27:50.467
And our relationship was so close

01:27:50.532 --> 01:27:53.700
and somehow also so final, as far as Lisa

01:27:54.700 --> 01:27:59.133
was concerned, that I felt
I...

01:28:01.166 --> 01:28:02.400
...couldn't get ahead like this.

01:28:07.467 --> 01:28:11.833
Then I decided to
move to America

01:28:11.900 --> 01:28:17.333
and live there, and to separate myself
from the life I was living before.

01:28:20.500 --> 01:28:22.567
That hurt her terribly.

01:28:50.166 --> 01:28:52.100
I was someone who was in the process of becoming at the time.

01:28:54.700 --> 01:28:57.100
I was not at all sure
what I was doing,

01:28:57.166 --> 01:28:58.666
that I was already someone.

01:29:03.800 --> 01:29:07.666
And because of this experience
in America, where I

01:29:07.733 --> 01:29:10.333
spent six or seven
years at the time, I really

01:29:11.867 --> 01:29:14.532
also became someone else.
I have learned

01:29:16.767 --> 01:29:21.133
everything there, all that the heroes
in False Movement

01:29:21.200 --> 01:29:22.967
or In the Course of Time could only dream of.

01:29:23.367 --> 01:29:26.467
So, move out
in order to learn to fear.

01:29:26.532 --> 01:29:27.900
I have learned to fear.

01:29:31.666 --> 01:29:35.600
The return to Germany,
seven years later,

01:29:36.633 --> 01:29:39.666
was a very conscious one.
I was someone else compared to the one

01:29:39.733 --> 01:29:41.600
who had taken off.

01:29:49.333 --> 01:29:51.867
That is a wonderful word
in the German language.

01:29:52.166 --> 01:29:55.233
That each shot (German: attitude) of a film
ultimately also reveals

01:29:55.300 --> 01:29:58.300
something regarding the attitude
of the one who makes it.

01:30:00.500 --> 01:30:04.500
And the common theme of my movies
is perhaps the attitude

01:30:04.567 --> 01:30:07.400
of Wim Wenders.

01:30:13.867 --> 01:30:16.133
And what did I learn about all this?

01:30:18.032 --> 01:30:20.500
When I watch all those 30 films,

01:30:22.967 --> 01:30:25.100
there is something,

01:30:26.367 --> 01:30:29.300
that has remained, or that
will remain, I think,

01:30:29.733 --> 01:30:34.133
and that the only things
worth doing were those

01:30:36.833 --> 01:30:41.200
that were done with conviction
and truly with love.

01:30:42.700 --> 01:30:44.767
In between, a lot was also done

01:30:46.300 --> 01:30:49.567
without conviction.

01:30:50.967 --> 01:30:55.467
And without passion.
And in the end, it is...

01:30:58.333 --> 01:30:59.733
Nothing remains of that.

01:31:08.733 --> 01:31:14.233
A little bit remains,
and I know that for myself.

01:31:16.500 --> 01:31:18.233
And it remains because

01:31:20.800 --> 01:31:23.700
of the attitude that
led to it and that

01:31:26.666 --> 01:31:28.567
was indestructible.

01:31:29.700 --> 01:31:31.000
I can only move forward.

01:31:34.666 --> 01:31:39.067
[Hums]

Main content

Wim Wenders' Story of His Early Years

Citation

Main credits

Other credits

Docuseek subjects

Distributor subjects

Keywords