00:01:16.373 --> 00:01:18.282
- They can be anywhere.

00:01:18.282 --> 00:01:21.590
They can be policemen,
they can be schoolteachers,

00:01:21.590 --> 00:01:23.324
they can be judges, lawyers.

00:01:23.324 --> 00:01:25.574
We ought to know, we've
arrested all of them.

00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:30.630
And if we catch you
involved with a homosexual,

00:01:30.630 --> 00:01:33.660
your parents are going
to know about it first.

00:01:33.660 --> 00:01:36.730
And you will be caught,
and the rest of your life

00:01:36.730 --> 00:01:37.830
will be a living hell.

00:01:42.960 --> 00:01:44.430
- [Mike Wallace] Most
Americans are repelled

00:01:44.430 --> 00:01:46.273
by the mere notion of homosexuality.

00:01:47.660 --> 00:01:49.047
- Homosexuals should be barred

00:01:49.047 --> 00:01:53.480
from the police department,
the fire department

00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:56.100
and teaching in our city schools.

00:01:56.100 --> 00:01:57.550
- [Mike Wallace] Two
out of three Americans

00:01:57.550 --> 00:02:01.483
look upon homosexuals with
disgust, discomfort, or fear.

00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:07.913
- I had one friend who was
beaten savagely by his father.

00:02:08.770 --> 00:02:11.590
He beat him, in fact, with bricks.

00:02:11.590 --> 00:02:12.970
- [Mike Wallace] We
discovered that Americans

00:02:12.970 --> 00:02:15.130
favor legal punishment.

00:02:15.130 --> 00:02:18.220
A vast majority believe that
homosexuality is an illness.

00:02:18.220 --> 00:02:20.524
- [Reporter] And what do you
suggest we could do about them?

00:02:20.524 --> 00:02:23.460
- Give them homes like they
do for the mentally insane.

00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:27.919
- Homosexuality is, in
fact, a mental illness,

00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:30.873
which has reached
epidemiological proportions.

00:02:32.220 --> 00:02:33.630
- [Mike Wallace] Many
psychiatrists now believe

00:02:33.630 --> 00:02:36.090
that homosexuality is learned behavior.

00:02:36.090 --> 00:02:39.060
And like almost anything
else that is learned,

00:02:39.060 --> 00:02:41.043
it can be unlearned.

00:02:43.810 --> 00:02:46.610
- [Barbara Gittings] I charge
the psychiatric profession

00:02:46.610 --> 00:02:49.650
with creating a poisoned climate

00:02:49.650 --> 00:02:51.670
of thinking about homosexuality.

00:02:53.452 --> 00:02:55.440
- [Ron Gold] To be viewed
as psychologically disturbed

00:02:55.440 --> 00:02:58.600
is to be treated as a
second-class citizen.

00:02:58.600 --> 00:03:01.640
And being a second-class
citizen is not good

00:03:01.640 --> 00:03:03.407
for my mental health.

00:03:03.407 --> 00:03:04.240
- [Protesters] Gay rights!

00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:05.760
What's the solution? Revolution!

00:03:05.760 --> 00:03:07.401
What's the fight? Gay rights!

00:03:07.401 --> 00:03:09.422
What's the solution? Revolution!

00:03:09.422 --> 00:03:11.839
What's the fight? Gay rights!

00:03:25.661 --> 00:03:28.244
(somber music)

00:03:40.523 --> 00:03:44.030
- Yeah, this was a sort of
a selfie of the generation.

00:03:44.030 --> 00:03:47.490
It's a self-portrait,
where I set up the camera

00:03:47.490 --> 00:03:49.403
and used a self-timer,

00:03:50.472 --> 00:03:53.790
trying to look very cool,
as one was supposed to look

00:03:53.790 --> 00:03:56.603
in those days. (chuckles)

00:03:59.250 --> 00:04:03.470
When I was 16, I knew that I was gay.

00:04:04.953 --> 00:04:06.230
I couldn't tell my parents,

00:04:06.230 --> 00:04:08.153
I couldn't tell religious leaders.

00:04:09.910 --> 00:04:12.803
If it was exposed, you would
bring shame on your family.

00:04:14.140 --> 00:04:17.373
The word meant you were mentally ill.

00:04:18.710 --> 00:04:21.926
As a kid, you're scared shitless.

00:04:23.561 --> 00:04:25.786
(school bell ringing)

00:04:30.610 --> 00:04:32.910
- I was in junior high school,

00:04:32.910 --> 00:04:36.753
and the word got out that I was a lesbian.

00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:42.150
Well, my mother was very
upset with what she had heard,

00:04:42.150 --> 00:04:46.560
and her idea was, this is not normal,

00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.470
and if I didn't consent to get married,

00:04:49.470 --> 00:04:50.803
that I would go to Utica.

00:04:52.835 --> 00:04:54.823
That was the mental institution.

00:04:56.420 --> 00:04:58.943
That happened to a lot of
my friends who were gay.

00:04:59.820 --> 00:05:02.420
You'd see them today, and
a couple of weeks later

00:05:02.420 --> 00:05:03.520
you wouldn't see them.

00:05:04.610 --> 00:05:07.990
And so it was either get
married or go to Utica.

00:05:07.990 --> 00:05:09.943
I got married at 14.

00:05:14.190 --> 00:05:16.677
Most people in those days,
that's what they thought,

00:05:16.677 --> 00:05:18.890
you know, you get married,
okay, you'd be cured,

00:05:18.890 --> 00:05:21.490
or we're going to put you
in a mental institution.

00:05:25.320 --> 00:05:28.310
- It is very hard nowadays
to have any awareness

00:05:28.310 --> 00:05:30.610
of how different the
world was for gay people.

00:05:32.814 --> 00:05:35.500
In the 1950s and 60s, we had church

00:05:35.500 --> 00:05:37.993
deciding homosexuality was sinful,

00:05:38.880 --> 00:05:41.860
governments deciding that it was criminal,

00:05:41.860 --> 00:05:44.893
and then we had psychiatrists
state that we were sick.

00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:52.450
Both of my parents were psychoanalysts,

00:05:52.450 --> 00:05:54.410
so I read the psychiatric literature

00:05:54.410 --> 00:05:56.680
in my teens and twenties.

00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:00.562
It said gay people are
universally nasty, pathetic,

00:06:00.562 --> 00:06:03.490
psychotic, manipulative, superficial,

00:06:03.490 --> 00:06:05.413
unable to form real relationships.

00:06:06.860 --> 00:06:10.673
As a young gay person,
that was devastating,

00:06:11.850 --> 00:06:15.253
but it's what psychiatrists
believed at the time.

00:06:16.250 --> 00:06:19.750
- The most frequent pattern
that you find is a dominant,

00:06:19.750 --> 00:06:23.820
seductive mother, controlling, possessive,

00:06:23.820 --> 00:06:27.590
and a rather weak,
distant, or absent father.

00:06:27.590 --> 00:06:29.840
- We usually are referring
to male homosexuals,

00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:31.160
but also in the females.

00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.580
The triangle between the
parents and the child.

00:06:34.580 --> 00:06:39.470
- I do not believe that
it is possible to produce

00:06:39.470 --> 00:06:43.500
a homosexual if the father

00:06:43.500 --> 00:06:46.600
is a constructive father to his son.

00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:47.730
- I was wondering if you think

00:06:47.730 --> 00:06:49.680
that there are any "happy homosexuals"?

00:06:50.735 --> 00:06:52.820
- The fact that somebody
is homosexual automatically

00:06:52.820 --> 00:06:57.160
rules out the possibility
that he will remain happy

00:06:57.160 --> 00:06:58.930
for long, in my opinion.

00:07:01.370 --> 00:07:02.203
- [Lawrence Hartmann] Many
of these psychiatrists

00:07:02.203 --> 00:07:05.280
were in charge of the American
Psychiatric Association,

00:07:05.280 --> 00:07:06.988
or the APA.

00:07:06.988 --> 00:07:08.470
This was by far

00:07:08.470 --> 00:07:11.428
the most important psychiatric
organization on earth.

00:07:11.428 --> 00:07:13.350
It was the biggest, it was the richest,

00:07:13.350 --> 00:07:15.320
it was the most influential.

00:07:15.320 --> 00:07:18.913
And they had the power,
ultimately calling homosexuality

00:07:18.913 --> 00:07:21.470
a mental illness in the first edition

00:07:21.470 --> 00:07:25.173
of The Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual in 1952.

00:07:29.760 --> 00:07:34.113
- The Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual, DSM,

00:07:34.960 --> 00:07:39.163
lists all of the mental disorders.

00:07:41.090 --> 00:07:46.033
It's that list that defines
who is sick and who is not.

00:07:48.050 --> 00:07:53.000
And in there is a section
of sexual deviations,

00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:56.443
and homosexuality was
at the top of the list.

00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:03.253
That diagnosis was used in
many ways against gay people.

00:08:05.570 --> 00:08:06.850
- You couldn't keep your own children

00:08:06.850 --> 00:08:09.040
if you were in a marriage
and found to be gay.

00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:10.340
You couldn't be a teacher.

00:08:12.270 --> 00:08:14.040
You couldn't be a judge or a banker

00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:15.290
or a head of an industry.

00:08:17.403 --> 00:08:20.353
It meant you were open to
blackmail, which was very common.

00:08:22.492 --> 00:08:24.773
I wanted to be a psychiatrist.

00:08:25.670 --> 00:08:29.273
The only way of doing that
was to stay in the closet.

00:08:30.750 --> 00:08:33.000
I was suicidal for a while,

00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:36.690
and I certainly was
heavily clouded by the idea

00:08:36.690 --> 00:08:39.940
that if my parents, my
friends, and my teachers

00:08:39.940 --> 00:08:41.680
all think it's an illness,

00:08:41.680 --> 00:08:45.413
can I really be all right
about thinking that it's not?

00:08:47.938 --> 00:08:50.585
- Nobody talked about it.

00:08:50.585 --> 00:08:52.510
You could be sitting next
to a person that was gay,

00:08:52.510 --> 00:08:55.150
you'd never know, because
they'd be so far in the closet,

00:08:55.150 --> 00:08:57.200
you'd have to shine a light to find them.

00:08:58.490 --> 00:09:01.440
- I was among the many who got married

00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:04.876
because all the authority
figures in the culture,

00:09:04.876 --> 00:09:09.540
the healthcare people all said,
"Well, this is undesirable.

00:09:09.540 --> 00:09:12.290
This is an illness and what's
more, you can change it."

00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:15.260
- [Lawrence Hartmann]
Thousands of gay people

00:09:15.260 --> 00:09:17.710
went to psychiatrists to be cured,

00:09:17.710 --> 00:09:20.260
as if that were the main
thing wrong in their life.

00:09:21.520 --> 00:09:24.283
The most typical treatment
was talk therapy,

00:09:25.250 --> 00:09:28.310
but many gay people were subjected

00:09:28.310 --> 00:09:30.693
to more aggressive treatment.

00:09:32.921 --> 00:09:35.504
(somber music)

00:09:43.250 --> 00:09:45.963
- They were unable to cope
with the fact that I was gay,

00:09:48.640 --> 00:09:51.363
and so they looked for a doctor
who was going to cure me.

00:09:52.760 --> 00:09:56.300
And when I first saw him, I
recall his statement to me,

00:09:56.300 --> 00:09:58.290
that, "Well, we could castrate you,

00:09:58.290 --> 00:10:01.290
but let's try some treatments
and see what we can do there."

00:10:02.270 --> 00:10:04.870
Next thing, I was going
into a mental institution

00:10:05.770 --> 00:10:07.513
and receiving shock therapy.

00:10:10.040 --> 00:10:12.473
It was a very frightening experience.

00:10:14.190 --> 00:10:17.313
We would wait for maybe an
hour or two for your turn.

00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:21.000
With utter terror, the clock would go

00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:22.860
and you'd have people, someone would come

00:10:22.860 --> 00:10:25.010
and call the individuals
and you knew when your turn

00:10:25.010 --> 00:10:28.560
was coming and how, each time,
you would hope against hope

00:10:28.560 --> 00:10:30.020
that it wasn't your turn yet.

00:10:30.020 --> 00:10:32.410
That there would be one more
time before you had to go

00:10:32.410 --> 00:10:33.460
into the little room.

00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.403
You would go into a fairly small cubicle.

00:10:45.668 --> 00:10:48.310
A little machine would
be wheeled into the room.

00:10:54.097 --> 00:10:56.300
And you're aware, constantly,
of this little box over there

00:10:56.300 --> 00:10:58.689
and what it's going to do to you.

00:10:58.689 --> 00:10:59.851
- [Medical Personnel] This
will help you to get well.

00:10:59.851 --> 00:11:01.101
- [Patient] No!

00:11:08.410 --> 00:11:10.210
- [Rick] That would be the
last thing I would recall,

00:11:10.210 --> 00:11:13.100
would be just spinning
wildly out of control,

00:11:13.100 --> 00:11:15.453
until you lose total consciousness.

00:11:21.560 --> 00:11:26.560
- Many of us did have various
treatments, including shock.

00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:32.890
I personally don't know anybody
who was a friend of mine

00:11:32.890 --> 00:11:36.820
who underwent a lobotomy,
but that did happen.

00:11:36.820 --> 00:11:37.720
- [Surgeon] Ready?

00:11:39.910 --> 00:11:41.409
- [Interviewer] Why did
you have that operation,

00:11:41.409 --> 00:11:42.784
do you know?

00:11:42.784 --> 00:11:47.033
- I think it was something to
do with my sexual intercourse.

00:11:47.945 --> 00:11:50.943
- [Interviewer] Was
that seriously in error?

00:11:51.860 --> 00:11:54.780
- Well, I thought it was anyhow.

00:11:54.780 --> 00:11:57.803
- It takes away memories.

00:11:59.210 --> 00:12:02.673
Chunks of a person's life
are missing, forever.

00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:11.000
- I saw things that, anybody
who hadn't been through,

00:12:11.350 --> 00:12:13.580
who couldn't allow themselves to believe

00:12:13.580 --> 00:12:15.320
could happen in this country.

00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:18.973
But it was. It was like a,
you know, a horror movie.

00:12:24.714 --> 00:12:29.194
♪ I will never forget ♪

00:12:29.194 --> 00:12:32.639
♪ The time that we met ♪

00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:34.880
♪ There was spring in the air ♪

00:12:34.880 --> 00:12:39.880
- In 1961, I was living in Boston.

00:12:42.620 --> 00:12:47.050
I had already decided that
the psychiatrists were wrong

00:12:47.050 --> 00:12:51.233
and that their theories were just hogwash.

00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:55.580
I was working in the Reference Library

00:12:55.580 --> 00:12:57.893
at the Christian Science Monitor.

00:12:59.430 --> 00:13:03.113
I didn't know where on earth
to find other gay people.

00:13:03.970 --> 00:13:07.890
I finally said to myself,
"What's wrong with me?

00:13:07.890 --> 00:13:09.960
I'm researching everything in the world

00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:13.920
for everybody else here, but
I'm not researching the thing

00:13:13.920 --> 00:13:16.067
that concerns me the most."

00:13:17.230 --> 00:13:20.503
And that's when I found
the Daughters of Bilitis.

00:13:21.929 --> 00:13:24.780
- [Reporter] Founded
in 1955, the Daughters

00:13:24.780 --> 00:13:27.403
is the only national lesbian organization.

00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:30.990
One of its main aims is
to educate the public

00:13:30.990 --> 00:13:32.823
out of its fear of lesbians.

00:13:34.230 --> 00:13:37.460
- They were planning a
meeting in Rhode Island.

00:13:37.460 --> 00:13:41.393
Well, I was so elated.

00:13:42.510 --> 00:13:46.163
I drove down and I thought
there'd be a lot of people.

00:13:47.578 --> 00:13:49.883
There were eight women altogether.

00:13:51.330 --> 00:13:55.000
And there was Barbara
Gittings, the lone organizer

00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.513
of this tiny band of people.

00:13:59.537 --> 00:14:02.600
And some of the women told
her she should go after me,

00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:04.708
I was a cute little package.

00:14:07.450 --> 00:14:11.920
Well, she turned out
to be my life partner.

00:14:11.920 --> 00:14:15.543
And we were together for 46 years.

00:14:16.681 --> 00:14:21.586
- [Women] 2, 4, 7, 9,
lesbians are mighty fine!

00:14:21.586 --> 00:14:25.966
2, 4, 6, 8, gay is just
as good as straight!

00:14:25.966 --> 00:14:27.773
2, 4, 6, 8...

00:14:27.773 --> 00:14:29.970
- We were just together
every step of the way

00:14:29.970 --> 00:14:31.660
in terms of the movement.

00:14:32.780 --> 00:14:37.050
I did the photography
and she was out there

00:14:37.050 --> 00:14:39.858
very much in the forefront.

00:14:39.858 --> 00:14:42.360
- For a time there, I was
really thinking that one ought

00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:43.600
to try to change.

00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.390
That was when I was unhappy, and it made

00:14:46.390 --> 00:14:47.650
an enormous difference

00:14:47.650 --> 00:14:50.880
when I met self-accepting homosexuals.

00:14:50.880 --> 00:14:53.650
- Barbara was a born leader.

00:14:53.650 --> 00:14:56.778
She wasn't intimidated by the shrinks

00:14:56.778 --> 00:14:58.865
or Frank Kameny (laughs).

00:15:02.790 --> 00:15:05.930
- Frank was out before people were out.

00:15:05.930 --> 00:15:08.070
He was part of the Mattachine Society,

00:15:08.070 --> 00:15:11.310
which is the grandfather
of gay organizations,

00:15:11.310 --> 00:15:14.313
and, wow, he was a showstopper.

00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:19.120
- [Kay Lahusen] He was just
so goddamn full of himself

00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:21.550
and sure that he was right.

00:15:21.550 --> 00:15:25.383
But he really was the biggest
brain in the movement.

00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:30.770
- I came to Washington in 1956.

00:15:30.770 --> 00:15:35.090
I had my degrees in astronomy,
and was able to get a job

00:15:35.090 --> 00:15:39.047
with the government,
until, one day, they said,

00:15:39.047 --> 00:15:41.640
"We have information
which leads us to believe

00:15:41.640 --> 00:15:43.780
you are homosexual, do
you have any comment?"

00:15:43.780 --> 00:15:45.420
I said, "What's the information?"

00:15:45.420 --> 00:15:47.123
They said, "We can't tell you."

00:15:47.123 --> 00:15:49.460
I said, "Well then, I have no answers."

00:15:49.460 --> 00:15:53.120
So I was fired, and that made clear to me

00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:56.370
that there were issues
that had to be fought.

00:15:56.370 --> 00:15:59.760
Every American citizen has
the right to be considered

00:15:59.760 --> 00:16:03.780
by his government, on the basis
of his own personal merit,

00:16:03.780 --> 00:16:05.193
as an individual.

00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:09.560
Eventually, I met Barbara Gittings

00:16:09.560 --> 00:16:13.080
and we initiated picketing and
demonstrating by gay people

00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:14.973
in April of 1965.

00:16:18.070 --> 00:16:21.103
This was a very, very, very tiny group.

00:16:21.978 --> 00:16:24.728
(dramatic music)

00:16:30.010 --> 00:16:33.760
- Nobody was expecting to
see a bunch of homosexuals

00:16:33.760 --> 00:16:37.580
with signs proclaiming, gay is good.

00:16:37.580 --> 00:16:40.854
One woman said, "Oh, they're
all actors." (laughs)

00:16:43.640 --> 00:16:45.090
- The people who took part

00:16:45.090 --> 00:16:47.650
in these picket demonstrations were

00:16:47.650 --> 00:16:49.853
a very courageous band of people.

00:16:51.020 --> 00:16:55.820
It took a lot of guts, to
stand up and risk your job,

00:16:55.820 --> 00:17:00.370
your family, knowing that
somebody from a news syndicate

00:17:00.370 --> 00:17:02.080
could put your picture on the front page

00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:03.875
of your hometown newspaper.

00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:12.290
- We were seeking equality,
and it was obvious enough

00:17:12.290 --> 00:17:15.260
that you couldn't expect
equality to be granted

00:17:15.260 --> 00:17:19.030
to a bunch of loonies,
which is what the psychiatry

00:17:19.030 --> 00:17:21.473
of that day made of us.

00:17:24.009 --> 00:17:26.790
So I decided to look at the issue.

00:17:26.790 --> 00:17:30.003
And I was absolutely
appalled with what I found.

00:17:30.860 --> 00:17:34.320
Just a lot of shabby, shoddy, sleazy,

00:17:34.320 --> 00:17:37.610
pseudo-science masquerading as science.

00:17:37.610 --> 00:17:39.380
Poor sampling techniques.

00:17:39.380 --> 00:17:42.810
I mean, why would a happy gay
person go to a psychiatrist?

00:17:42.810 --> 00:17:46.373
So all they saw were gay
people who had problems.

00:17:48.830 --> 00:17:53.830
- Nearly all studies on gayness
in the 50 years or so before

00:17:54.230 --> 00:17:57.020
were based on studying not gay people,

00:17:57.020 --> 00:17:59.913
but gay patients or gay prisoners.

00:18:00.780 --> 00:18:03.960
Staggering injustice if
you're going to extrapolate

00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:05.110
to what are gay people.

00:18:06.120 --> 00:18:08.243
- It's about time that this entire subject

00:18:08.243 --> 00:18:11.010
were taken off the psychoanalyst's couch

00:18:11.010 --> 00:18:12.860
and out of the psychiatrist's office.

00:18:13.840 --> 00:18:17.080
- Frank was adamant about our getting out

00:18:17.080 --> 00:18:19.203
from under the sickness label.

00:18:20.370 --> 00:18:23.640
And not all activists agreed with him.

00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:26.110
They viewed it as impossible to fight,

00:18:26.110 --> 00:18:29.838
to take on this behemoth called the APA.

00:18:29.838 --> 00:18:31.343
Not Frank.

00:18:32.878 --> 00:18:35.220
- Frank realized that
a lot of psychiatrists

00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:38.100
hadn't really given the issue much thought

00:18:38.100 --> 00:18:39.890
in a formal sense.

00:18:39.890 --> 00:18:42.950
Gay people came to them
with various symptoms,

00:18:42.950 --> 00:18:45.247
and the rubric of the day was,

00:18:45.247 --> 00:18:47.640
"Well, this must be related to the fact

00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:49.980
that you have this
terrible mental disorder

00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:53.370
called homosexuality, and
we're gonna work on that."

00:18:53.370 --> 00:18:56.180
That opposed a couple of
very important moments

00:18:56.180 --> 00:18:57.238
in the history of psychiatry.

00:18:59.870 --> 00:19:03.120
- Freud was not optimistic
about curing homosexuality.

00:19:03.120 --> 00:19:06.690
In a letter to a mother who
wrote him about her son,

00:19:06.690 --> 00:19:08.833
he gave this account of his own view:

00:19:09.965 --> 00:19:12.150
"Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage,

00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:14.921
but it is nothing to be ashamed of.

00:19:14.921 --> 00:19:17.500
It cannot be classified as an illness."

00:19:17.500 --> 00:19:19.730
- [Richard Pillard] Freud
had a relatively benign view

00:19:19.730 --> 00:19:21.520
of being gay.

00:19:21.520 --> 00:19:26.030
But when he died in
1939, a lot of his pupils

00:19:26.030 --> 00:19:28.643
began to have divergent points of view.

00:19:31.790 --> 00:19:34.390
And they were bold enough
to publish the view

00:19:34.390 --> 00:19:36.570
that Freud was wrong.

00:19:36.570 --> 00:19:39.313
Homosexuality could definitely be cured.

00:19:40.477 --> 00:19:43.473
And that became the status quo until 1948.

00:19:44.923 --> 00:19:49.186
♪ Ooh, ooh, Dr. Kinsey ♪

00:19:49.186 --> 00:19:52.890
♪ Ooh, ooh, Dr. Kinsey ♪

00:19:52.890 --> 00:19:55.200
- [Reporter] The estimate,
given by Dr. Alfred Kinsey,

00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:57.670
18% of all American men have as much

00:19:57.670 --> 00:20:01.210
or more sexual experience
with other men as with women.

00:20:01.210 --> 00:20:05.040
In other words, approximately
15 million men in this country

00:20:05.040 --> 00:20:07.820
have prolonged homosexual histories.

00:20:07.820 --> 00:20:09.672
♪ No wonder Bill was always strange ♪

00:20:09.672 --> 00:20:11.974
♪ And kissed me with such poise ♪

00:20:11.974 --> 00:20:13.430
♪ When I asked him where he'd been ♪

00:20:13.430 --> 00:20:16.264
♪ He'd say, "Oh, out with the boys." ♪

00:20:16.264 --> 00:20:19.010
♪ Hey, hey, Dr. Kinsey ♪

00:20:19.010 --> 00:20:21.940
- [Richard Pillard] The
Kinsey Reports showed that

00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:24.090
everybody was doing everything sexual

00:20:24.090 --> 00:20:25.240
that you could imagine,

00:20:26.327 --> 00:20:30.340
and the news of that spread
across the country instantly.

00:20:33.760 --> 00:20:35.760
- He documented that there's a spectrum,

00:20:36.810 --> 00:20:41.810
and it went from straight
to bisexual to totally gay,

00:20:42.010 --> 00:20:44.290
and we were all somewhere from zero to six

00:20:44.290 --> 00:20:45.343
on a Kinsey scale.

00:20:46.560 --> 00:20:49.243
Well, the conservative
psychiatrists were horrified.

00:20:56.380 --> 00:21:00.803
- Kinsey was pretty much
discredited by psychiatry.

00:21:02.470 --> 00:21:06.418
At the time, we were a
very conservative society.

00:21:08.020 --> 00:21:11.913
Citizens were expected to
follow a very regimented path.

00:21:13.900 --> 00:21:18.213
You couldn't be gay and still be normal.

00:21:26.689 --> 00:21:30.040
- In the '60s, I was working as

00:21:30.040 --> 00:21:32.603
a fifth-grade teacher in Westchester.

00:21:33.812 --> 00:21:37.433
I absolutely loved it. The kids loved me.

00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.290
But no way was I going to
tell anyone that I was gay

00:21:42.290 --> 00:21:46.113
because there was no question,
they would've thrown me out.

00:21:46.979 --> 00:21:49.023
So I had to go to be cured.

00:21:51.010 --> 00:21:56.010
I decided to go see a
psychiatrist three times a week,

00:21:57.010 --> 00:21:59.620
talking about how I should date women

00:21:59.620 --> 00:22:01.830
and go to bed with them.

00:22:01.830 --> 00:22:05.400
- A gradual process of
reconditioning must take place,

00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:07.420
in which you encourage that male

00:22:07.420 --> 00:22:10.470
to have more and more contact
with the right kind of women,

00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:12.980
women that are warm and soft and easy

00:22:12.980 --> 00:22:15.530
and with whom they can
have relaxed relationships,

00:22:15.530 --> 00:22:17.340
which ultimately will lead to some sort

00:22:17.340 --> 00:22:19.240
of physical contact and gratification.

00:22:20.610 --> 00:22:23.600
- The real shame was not that I was gay.

00:22:23.600 --> 00:22:27.050
The real shame was that I went to bed

00:22:27.050 --> 00:22:28.950
with some very nice women who thought

00:22:28.950 --> 00:22:31.510
that there was a future,
and there was no future

00:22:31.510 --> 00:22:32.953
and it was unfair to them.

00:22:34.210 --> 00:22:39.123
I continued to see analysts
for about seven years.

00:22:40.180 --> 00:22:42.230
Nothing changed.

00:22:42.230 --> 00:22:45.343
And so I really started
feeling pretty lost.

00:22:46.379 --> 00:22:50.543
But fortunately, the
tidal wave was coming in.

00:22:51.650 --> 00:22:56.650
♪ I think this must be the
time for the revolution ♪

00:22:58.294 --> 00:23:03.294
♪ I think this must be the
time for the revolution ♪

00:23:04.845 --> 00:23:07.022
♪ I think the time is right ♪

00:23:07.022 --> 00:23:09.293
- I called 1969 the next frontier.

00:23:10.610 --> 00:23:13.100
There was the civil rights movement,

00:23:13.100 --> 00:23:16.813
the women's movement, people
fighting against the war.

00:23:17.810 --> 00:23:21.003
And I was involved with
a lot of the protests.

00:23:22.610 --> 00:23:27.610
I wasn't married anymore, and
I was raising five children

00:23:27.917 --> 00:23:29.543
as a lesbian mother.

00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:31.967
And then finally, one day
my mother just looked at me

00:23:31.967 --> 00:23:34.990
and she said, "Oh well, I can't beat you,

00:23:34.990 --> 00:23:38.930
I guess I'll join you," and she hugged me.

00:23:38.930 --> 00:23:40.410
And that was like, I
guess that was kind of

00:23:40.410 --> 00:23:42.619
like our breakthrough because she knew

00:23:42.619 --> 00:23:44.213
I'm not gonna change.

00:23:45.470 --> 00:23:48.300
Eventually, I became a minister.

00:23:48.300 --> 00:23:51.323
And then I started to get
involved in the gay community.

00:23:52.450 --> 00:23:55.870
By that time, I knew that if
you want to call attention

00:23:55.870 --> 00:23:58.290
to an issue and you wanna make a change,

00:23:58.290 --> 00:23:59.943
you gonna take it to the streets.

00:24:01.060 --> 00:24:03.810
(dramatic music)

00:24:04.790 --> 00:24:09.420
Stonewall was a gay bar and in those days,

00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:10.960
it was just a known fact that the cops

00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:12.310
could just come and raid the bars

00:24:12.310 --> 00:24:13.660
whenever they felt like it.

00:24:16.190 --> 00:24:18.806
But this night, there were so many of us

00:24:18.806 --> 00:24:19.639
that were at the same point.

00:24:19.639 --> 00:24:20.850
You know, enough is enough,

00:24:20.850 --> 00:24:23.325
we're not gonna take it anymore, period!

00:24:24.910 --> 00:24:26.976
It was the people against the police.

00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:32.880
Black, white, Puerto Rican,
transgender, drag queens.

00:24:33.150 --> 00:24:36.493
This was not a riot. This was an uprising.

00:24:44.350 --> 00:24:46.623
This went on, right through the weekend.

00:24:50.764 --> 00:24:53.337
And that was when a lot of
gay people started saying,

00:24:53.337 --> 00:24:54.570
"Yeah, we can do something.

00:24:54.570 --> 00:24:57.314
Yes, we can stand up. Yes we can."

00:25:11.968 --> 00:25:13.189
- [Protesters] What's
the fight? Gay rights!

00:25:13.189 --> 00:25:15.856
What's the solution? Revolution!

00:25:17.670 --> 00:25:19.470
- [Reporter] Through
demonstrations and political

00:25:19.470 --> 00:25:22.370
and educational pressure,
the Gay Liberation Movement

00:25:22.370 --> 00:25:26.343
is challenging a society
that abhors homosexuality.

00:25:27.842 --> 00:25:29.883
- [Protesters] Gay Power!

00:25:29.883 --> 00:25:31.040
Gay Power!

00:25:31.040 --> 00:25:35.410
- Very suddenly, the
movement became bigger.

00:25:35.410 --> 00:25:38.160
We had some of what
you'd call Young Turks.

00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:43.063
They started organizing different
groups, helping the cause.

00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.100
- Nearly everyone who was
involved had been active

00:25:50.100 --> 00:25:52.510
in civil rights or anti-war movement

00:25:52.510 --> 00:25:54.070
or the women's movement.

00:25:54.070 --> 00:25:57.770
So, we were all experienced
street activists.

00:25:57.770 --> 00:25:59.610
- Gay people have the
same right to protections

00:25:59.610 --> 00:26:02.720
as a minority, as any other
minority in this city!

00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:04.760
- I don't want you in my schools!

00:26:04.760 --> 00:26:06.540
I don't want you in my home!

00:26:07.661 --> 00:26:10.399
- We learned that you have
to have righteous anger.

00:26:10.399 --> 00:26:13.663
It's essential to get what you want.

00:26:14.870 --> 00:26:18.993
- We were on fire. Something
was unleashed in us.

00:26:19.930 --> 00:26:22.970
It was no longer acceptance.
It was self-acceptance.

00:26:22.970 --> 00:26:25.893
And in that difference
comes the revolution.

00:26:28.040 --> 00:26:30.293
- We had to rise above our differences.

00:26:31.420 --> 00:26:33.300
I was always saying, you know, "Look,

00:26:33.300 --> 00:26:35.220
you're having a tough time
over here 'cause you're gay,

00:26:35.220 --> 00:26:36.774
we're having a tough time over here

00:26:36.774 --> 00:26:37.974
'cause we're Black and gay."

00:26:40.184 --> 00:26:42.330
- [Protesters] What's
the fight? Gay rights!

00:26:42.330 --> 00:26:44.472
- But we learned to stand up

00:26:44.472 --> 00:26:45.793
and fight together.

00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.440
And to see so many
people get courage enough

00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:54.703
to come out of the closet,
that was like, amazing.

00:27:12.351 --> 00:27:15.490
- One day, I read in The Village Voice

00:27:15.490 --> 00:27:18.380
that the Gay Activists Alliance had dances

00:27:18.380 --> 00:27:21.223
at the Firehouse on Wooster Street.

00:27:22.350 --> 00:27:25.740
Absolutely terrified, I drove down

00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:29.013
and there was this long line of people.

00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:33.808
Okay, so I went in.

00:27:34.700 --> 00:27:36.523
It was absolutely wonderful.

00:27:38.024 --> 00:27:40.524
(funky music)

00:27:50.030 --> 00:27:53.063
Everybody was having a good
time and laughing and joking.

00:27:55.400 --> 00:28:00.400
I realized, you know, there
isn't anything wrong with them,

00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:03.970
so there can't be anything wrong with me.

00:28:05.780 --> 00:28:08.083
And my world changed.

00:28:10.930 --> 00:28:13.238
I dropped my analyst,

00:28:14.230 --> 00:28:17.146
identified with the Gay Movement,

00:28:17.990 --> 00:28:20.833
and started fighting for our rights.

00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:24.820
I saw that there was

00:28:24.820 --> 00:28:28.500
this growing rebellion against psychiatry.

00:28:28.500 --> 00:28:32.030
There was a lot of resentment and fury

00:28:33.115 --> 00:28:35.903
about having to suffer that way.

00:28:37.300 --> 00:28:42.297
And Gay Liberation wanted
to remove homosexuality

00:28:42.297 --> 00:28:45.013
from The Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual.

00:28:46.670 --> 00:28:49.650
- We knew nothing would
ever change as long

00:28:49.650 --> 00:28:52.773
as we were burdened
with the sickness label.

00:28:53.820 --> 00:28:57.383
We had to go up against
psychiatry and fight.

00:28:58.700 --> 00:29:01.078
- There were many people that said,

00:29:01.078 --> 00:29:03.229
"You're crazy, what
you're trying to do here.

00:29:03.229 --> 00:29:04.279
It'll never succeed."

00:29:12.570 --> 00:29:14.300
- In the spring of 1970, we became aware

00:29:14.300 --> 00:29:16.920
that the APA was going
to have their convention

00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:19.780
in San Francisco, and we just realized

00:29:19.780 --> 00:29:22.323
that that would be too good
of an opportunity to pass up.

00:29:24.670 --> 00:29:26.790
The psychiatric establishment
looked pretty formidable,

00:29:26.790 --> 00:29:30.710
but we wanted to plan our
own life in our own way

00:29:30.710 --> 00:29:33.233
and do what we had to do
in order to achieve that.

00:29:35.130 --> 00:29:38.583
The event was held at the
San Francisco Civic Center.

00:29:40.070 --> 00:29:43.080
Someone from the inside
got us press passes,

00:29:43.080 --> 00:29:45.530
and we were able to get
in the door quite easily.

00:29:49.210 --> 00:29:51.833
The APA convention was very intimidating.

00:29:53.210 --> 00:29:55.913
There were more than 10,000 psychiatrists.

00:29:59.370 --> 00:30:02.490
We went through the program
and there were two panels

00:30:02.490 --> 00:30:05.220
that caught our attention.

00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:07.310
The first was Dr. Bieber,

00:30:07.310 --> 00:30:10.493
who was a notoriously
homophobic psychiatrist.

00:30:11.820 --> 00:30:13.780
We just let him proceed with his lecture.

00:30:13.780 --> 00:30:15.450
At a certain point, we started getting up

00:30:15.450 --> 00:30:18.420
and shouting at him,
telling him he was barbaric,

00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:20.370
and, you know, he was a motherfucker.

00:30:20.370 --> 00:30:24.113
And I think he was a
little taken aback by that.

00:30:25.912 --> 00:30:29.080
And the other panel was a
presentation about a treatment

00:30:29.080 --> 00:30:31.270
that was becoming more popular,

00:30:31.270 --> 00:30:36.270
aversion therapy, which,
sometimes, was genital shock.

00:30:36.405 --> 00:30:38.322
- [Technician] Testing.

00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:42.260
- For gay men, they would show slides

00:30:42.260 --> 00:30:45.073
of females and they wouldn't get a shock.

00:30:47.950 --> 00:30:49.560
And then they'd show slides of males

00:30:49.560 --> 00:30:51.173
and they would get a shock.

00:30:56.030 --> 00:30:59.810
And that would, presumably,
make them attracted to females

00:30:59.810 --> 00:31:01.113
and averse to males.

00:31:03.230 --> 00:31:06.130
There were people in our
group who had been the victim

00:31:06.130 --> 00:31:07.353
of aversion therapy.

00:31:08.630 --> 00:31:10.950
You rarely get a chance
to confront so directly

00:31:10.950 --> 00:31:12.180
one of your enemies.

00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:13.320
You're not gonna confront the president

00:31:13.320 --> 00:31:16.190
or the Pope or the governor, very likely,

00:31:16.190 --> 00:31:18.530
but you get into a room
and there's, you know,

00:31:18.530 --> 00:31:21.450
with a psychiatrist and you
get to tell them exactly

00:31:21.450 --> 00:31:23.743
what you think of it,
of course it feels good.

00:31:24.810 --> 00:31:27.620
These are the demands from
the Gay Liberation Movement

00:31:27.620 --> 00:31:29.183
to the APA Convention.

00:31:31.330 --> 00:31:35.250
There is no cure for that
which is not a disease.

00:31:35.250 --> 00:31:38.030
Psychiatrists who promise
cure with lobotomies,

00:31:38.030 --> 00:31:41.053
castration, and brainwashing
techniques are sadistic,

00:31:41.950 --> 00:31:44.833
and the system that supports
them must be abolished.

00:31:49.580 --> 00:31:54.190
- It had an impact, and soon
at psychiatric meetings,

00:31:54.190 --> 00:31:57.366
there were demonstrations,
if not, in fact, riots.

00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:04.683
- In every major city, something happened.

00:32:06.050 --> 00:32:09.353
In Chicago, in Atlanta,
in New York, in Boston.

00:32:12.081 --> 00:32:14.630
- At one convention, I
was with Barbara Gittings

00:32:14.630 --> 00:32:18.620
and our people all came in and proceeded

00:32:18.620 --> 00:32:23.620
to invade the ordination of
all the new psychiatrists.

00:32:23.750 --> 00:32:27.200
Well, there was a group
of elderly psychiatrists

00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:31.040
and they were wearing honorary
gold medals and ribbons.

00:32:31.040 --> 00:32:34.150
And they proceeded to
attack the invaders, and

00:32:34.150 --> 00:32:38.220
beat them over the head with
their gold medals, literally!

00:32:38.220 --> 00:32:40.803
And chased them all back out the door.

00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:43.610
The whole thing was gonna fade away

00:32:43.610 --> 00:32:45.570
if something wasn't done.

00:32:45.570 --> 00:32:48.910
So I marched up, climbed
up on the platform,

00:32:48.910 --> 00:32:50.863
and I proceeded to denounce them.

00:32:52.196 --> 00:32:55.397
While they shook their fists
at me and called me a Nazi.

00:32:55.397 --> 00:33:00.160
And I said, I'm a scientist
by training and background

00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.630
and if they felt it was a
disturbance or a disorder

00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:04.670
or a pathology, fine,

00:33:04.670 --> 00:33:07.030
let them present their good, sound,

00:33:07.030 --> 00:33:11.167
solid scientific evidence to
show it, and they never did.

00:33:14.490 --> 00:33:16.070
- The demonstrations shocked

00:33:16.070 --> 00:33:19.280
the American Psychiatric
Association enormously,

00:33:19.280 --> 00:33:22.063
and organized psychiatry
was scuttling for safety.

00:33:23.360 --> 00:33:26.010
They didn't realize, well, to some people,

00:33:26.010 --> 00:33:29.100
this is a matter of serious,

00:33:29.100 --> 00:33:30.933
a serious concern in their lives.

00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:37.820
- When Gay Liberation came along,

00:33:37.820 --> 00:33:41.740
I was a doctoral student at UCLA,

00:33:41.740 --> 00:33:45.070
and there was some sense that something

00:33:45.070 --> 00:33:47.150
was gonna change for me.

00:33:47.150 --> 00:33:51.750
There was a line in a poem I
once read that stuck with me,

00:33:51.750 --> 00:33:53.337
where the poet said,

00:33:53.337 --> 00:33:58.337
"I turned my gaze for a
minute, and it became my life."

00:33:58.340 --> 00:34:02.673
And I had that sense that
that's what was happening.

00:34:23.390 --> 00:34:27.080
In October of 1970, this
big conference was happening

00:34:27.080 --> 00:34:28.710
in Los Angeles.

00:34:28.710 --> 00:34:31.430
I got up and walked up
to the front of the room,

00:34:31.430 --> 00:34:34.763
to the stage, and I took the microphone.

00:34:37.890 --> 00:34:39.373
The doctor takes it back.

00:34:40.275 --> 00:34:43.210
What they didn't expect was
me to grab that from him

00:34:43.210 --> 00:34:45.960
and we were gonna talk, not them.

00:34:59.225 --> 00:35:03.392
(voices talking over one another)

00:35:12.260 --> 00:35:17.258
- When this began, the LAPD
was notified and the SWAT team

00:35:17.258 --> 00:35:20.620
was mobilized directly across the street.

00:35:20.620 --> 00:35:24.300
So we were inches away from
being arrested that day.

00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:27.760
One person said, "It's like
you had balls of steel."

00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:28.810
I said, "No, no, no."

00:35:29.702 --> 00:35:32.340
We were afraid, we were scared.

00:35:32.340 --> 00:35:33.706
It was something we needed to do.

00:35:57.560 --> 00:36:01.360
About a third of them left in
anger and who were remaining,

00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:04.500
we explained we would break
down into small groups,

00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:08.021
because they had never sat down
and talked with gay people,

00:36:08.021 --> 00:36:11.528
where the shrinkologists
weren't in charge.

00:36:11.528 --> 00:36:13.977
Gay and lesbian people were saying,

00:36:13.977 --> 00:36:17.470
"We are the experts on our
lives, and we will tell you

00:36:17.470 --> 00:36:18.867
what it's like being gay."

00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:23.330
And the shrinkologists were
listening to these gay people.

00:36:23.330 --> 00:36:25.820
There was true dialogue taking place.

00:36:25.820 --> 00:36:27.850
For the first time in history,

00:36:27.850 --> 00:36:30.680
gay people are beginning
to define themselves.

00:36:30.680 --> 00:36:33.750
No longer are we allowing
the mental health industry

00:36:33.750 --> 00:36:37.383
to define who we are,
we're doing it ourselves.

00:36:37.383 --> 00:36:42.030
That is what slowly rippled
out to the rest of the country

00:36:42.030 --> 00:36:43.740
and the rest of that profession.

00:36:43.740 --> 00:36:46.136
It was working, it was working.

00:36:46.136 --> 00:36:48.890
(upbeat music)

00:36:48.890 --> 00:36:51.360
- [Reporter] Through the avenues
of protest, confrontation,

00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:54.540
and dialogue, gay
activists have had success

00:36:54.540 --> 00:36:57.560
in persuading some
well-respected psychiatrists

00:36:57.560 --> 00:37:01.640
to reevaluate their thinking
in relation to homosexuality.

00:37:01.640 --> 00:37:06.560
- What I insist is that
homosexuality, in and of itself,

00:37:06.560 --> 00:37:09.560
does not constitute a mental disorder.

00:37:09.560 --> 00:37:11.970
- There hasn't been
any question in my mind

00:37:11.970 --> 00:37:16.970
that we have had repressive,
punitive attitudes

00:37:18.120 --> 00:37:22.536
that have brought to
the lives of many people

00:37:22.536 --> 00:37:24.360
grave misery.

00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:27.664
- [Announcer] Dr. Richard Green.

00:37:27.664 --> 00:37:30.831
(audience applauding)

00:37:32.160 --> 00:37:35.650
- I don't believe that
psychiatry should come through

00:37:35.650 --> 00:37:39.930
to individuals in a moral,
judgmental, or religious way.

00:37:39.930 --> 00:37:43.730
I decided that there really
ought to be a paper published

00:37:43.730 --> 00:37:48.100
in the psychiatric literature
questioning the logic,

00:37:48.100 --> 00:37:50.763
the conclusions that
homosexuality was a disorder.

00:37:52.190 --> 00:37:55.860
I sent it to my mentor,
and he advised me strongly

00:37:55.860 --> 00:37:57.450
not to publish this.

00:37:57.450 --> 00:37:59.500
Put it into a drawer and forget about it.

00:38:00.490 --> 00:38:02.413
Well, father doesn't always know best.

00:38:03.300 --> 00:38:04.660
I thought that the fact

00:38:04.660 --> 00:38:06.880
that I was a heterosexual psychiatrist,

00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:10.350
and also part of the
psychiatric establishment

00:38:10.350 --> 00:38:13.353
made it a more powerful argument
that had to be listened to.

00:38:15.040 --> 00:38:17.580
So I published this paper and I said,

00:38:17.580 --> 00:38:20.710
"What I question in this
essay is the given state

00:38:20.710 --> 00:38:24.390
of 'knowledge' that
homosexuality is by definition

00:38:24.390 --> 00:38:28.344
a 'disorder,' 'disease' or an 'illness.'

00:38:29.570 --> 00:38:32.190
I'm not convinced we have the data

00:38:32.190 --> 00:38:34.600
by which to base these judgments.

00:38:34.600 --> 00:38:37.073
I question them because
they're not proved."

00:38:37.930 --> 00:38:39.680
That didn't go down too well.

00:38:39.680 --> 00:38:42.930
- We are interested in helping
the individual homosexual.

00:38:42.930 --> 00:38:46.640
The despair you create, sir,
in burying the homosexual

00:38:46.640 --> 00:38:49.400
and taking him out of the realm
of medicine and psychiatry,

00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:50.760
I would say is much worse.

00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:51.770
I am for civil rights.

00:38:51.770 --> 00:38:53.630
I was the first psychiatrist--

00:38:53.630 --> 00:38:56.950
- Charles Socarides became
the most vigorous proponent

00:38:56.950 --> 00:39:00.370
of homosexuality as an illness
that's treatable and curable.

00:39:00.370 --> 00:39:03.830
And he would say often that
he's for civil liberties

00:39:03.830 --> 00:39:06.580
and equal protection of
people who are homosexual,

00:39:06.580 --> 00:39:08.000
but the fact of the matter is,

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:11.640
his own writings were precisely
the arguments used by people

00:39:11.640 --> 00:39:14.773
who wanted to deny
homosexuals equal protection.

00:39:16.500 --> 00:39:20.183
- Charles Socarides had a
very thriving private practice

00:39:20.183 --> 00:39:24.053
treating gay people and
offering them the cure.

00:39:24.890 --> 00:39:26.497
His first book on the subject was called,

00:39:26.497 --> 00:39:27.643
"The Overt Homosexual,"

00:39:28.500 --> 00:39:30.550
and it was dedicated to me and my sister.

00:39:32.550 --> 00:39:34.000
Charles Socarides was my dad.

00:39:38.060 --> 00:39:40.280
He could be quite empathetic,

00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:44.180
which probably served
him well as a therapist.

00:39:44.180 --> 00:39:46.806
In my childhood and my adolescence,

00:39:46.806 --> 00:39:49.513
I was much more emotionally
connected to him.

00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:55.160
When I was six or seven,
my parents were divorced.

00:39:55.160 --> 00:39:58.070
And at around the time I was 13,

00:39:58.070 --> 00:40:00.923
I moved out of my mother's
and moved in with my dad.

00:40:02.390 --> 00:40:06.930
We lived in a townhouse on East
78th Street and his office,

00:40:06.930 --> 00:40:09.670
where he saw patients,
was in the downstairs

00:40:09.670 --> 00:40:11.813
and my bedroom was on the top floor.

00:40:13.640 --> 00:40:16.350
When he was three flights
below seeing a patient

00:40:16.350 --> 00:40:19.640
and, you know, attempting
a cure for homosexuality,

00:40:19.640 --> 00:40:22.713
you know, I was upstairs
being a young homosexual,

00:40:23.600 --> 00:40:26.750
experimenting along the way
as high school students do

00:40:26.750 --> 00:40:29.890
with early sexual experiences.

00:40:29.890 --> 00:40:32.780
And it never occurred to
me that this was something

00:40:32.780 --> 00:40:35.643
you could alter or change, it just was.

00:40:36.870 --> 00:40:41.333
And there were signs along
the way that he was on to me.

00:40:42.520 --> 00:40:46.210
I was very careful and quiet about it.

00:40:46.210 --> 00:40:50.510
I felt that if my
homosexuality became public,

00:40:50.510 --> 00:40:53.820
it could be embarrassing to him
and it could bring unwanted,

00:40:53.820 --> 00:40:54.970
you know, notoriety to me.

00:40:54.970 --> 00:40:57.943
I mean, I was as much afraid
for him as I was for myself.

00:41:00.441 --> 00:41:01.280
- The homosexual is suffering

00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:04.593
from a severe emotional
condition which can be altered,

00:41:06.310 --> 00:41:07.810
and I've suggested to the government

00:41:07.810 --> 00:41:11.120
that a national center for
sexual rehabilitation be started,

00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:13.970
in which a great deal of
research and treatment

00:41:13.970 --> 00:41:15.723
and training must be done.

00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:29.300
- Activism lit the spark.

00:41:29.300 --> 00:41:32.280
But it was clear that a huge majority

00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:34.840
of the American Psychiatric Association

00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:37.448
still agreed with Socarides.

00:41:39.210 --> 00:41:41.160
Somebody, somewhere had to start

00:41:41.160 --> 00:41:43.390
within the American
Psychiatric Association

00:41:43.390 --> 00:41:47.310
to advance the idea that
being gay or lesbian

00:41:47.310 --> 00:41:49.790
should be taken off the terminology

00:41:49.790 --> 00:41:51.740
and not be considered a mental illness.

00:41:52.710 --> 00:41:57.410
- We formed an unofficial
group of sort of Young Turks,

00:41:57.410 --> 00:42:00.463
who decided we will try
to help reform the APA.

00:42:02.240 --> 00:42:04.230
This was a very small
number of psychiatrists

00:42:04.230 --> 00:42:06.150
from around the country,

00:42:06.150 --> 00:42:08.433
who were mostly very young and unknown.

00:42:09.550 --> 00:42:11.490
Our first priority was to make some allies

00:42:11.490 --> 00:42:13.780
who were senior, smart, recognized.

00:42:13.780 --> 00:42:15.973
And we did that very quickly.

00:42:17.135 --> 00:42:18.840
And then we started
figuring out how to get some

00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:22.290
of those people elected
to the board of trustees,

00:42:22.290 --> 00:42:25.370
which had the ultimate power in the APA.

00:42:25.370 --> 00:42:28.283
And that was essential to
getting anything changed.

00:42:33.530 --> 00:42:36.510
- Less than a decade ago,
a national poll showed

00:42:36.510 --> 00:42:38.990
that two thirds of the American people

00:42:38.990 --> 00:42:41.820
feared and hated homosexuals.

00:42:41.820 --> 00:42:45.840
But now, if the success of
books, magazines, and movies

00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:48.860
about homosexuals is any indication,

00:42:48.860 --> 00:42:50.783
that attitude is changing.

00:42:51.780 --> 00:42:56.202
- His pal Roger is as queer
as a $4 bill and he knows it.

00:42:56.202 --> 00:42:58.130
- We all know Roger and
we all know he's straight.

00:42:58.130 --> 00:43:00.892
And even if he wasn't, what
difference would that make?

00:43:00.892 --> 00:43:03.475
(upbeat music)

00:43:06.217 --> 00:43:09.240
- Do you know what the
word "homosexual" means?

00:43:09.240 --> 00:43:12.000
They say it's a sickness
that has to be cured.

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:13.590
- I don't wanna talk about it.

00:43:13.590 --> 00:43:15.410
- Damn it, look at me!

00:43:15.410 --> 00:43:18.973
Does that change me so
much? I'm still your father.

00:43:20.100 --> 00:43:23.030
- Ben and I aren't getting
married. He's not my type.

00:43:23.030 --> 00:43:25.380
- He's not your type?

00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:29.120
He's witty, he's
attractive, he's successful.

00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:30.546
- He's gay.

00:43:30.546 --> 00:43:31.970
(audience laughing)

00:43:33.520 --> 00:43:37.913
- By being so open about it,
by the media publicizing it,

00:43:39.510 --> 00:43:44.510
it helped to bring a fresh
breeze into the movement

00:43:44.677 --> 00:43:48.094
and to people, so that
they could talk about it.

00:43:50.062 --> 00:43:53.410
- Good evening and welcome.
My name is David Susskind.

00:43:53.410 --> 00:43:55.800
Tonight, our subject is homosexuality.

00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:58.200
Is it a sickness or a preferred lifestyle?

00:43:58.200 --> 00:43:59.053
- Oh, David.

00:44:00.849 --> 00:44:03.080
- Because it's one of
those human illnesses

00:44:03.080 --> 00:44:06.372
that I don't choose to educate
my children too deeply about.

00:44:06.372 --> 00:44:08.600
- David, why do you have
such a vested interest

00:44:08.600 --> 00:44:12.180
in trying to channel people, narrow down,

00:44:12.180 --> 00:44:14.860
to program them for this one
thing, this one way of life?

00:44:14.860 --> 00:44:16.685
- [Panel Member] To conform.

00:44:16.685 --> 00:44:20.500
- I've told you why several
times and the audience hoots

00:44:20.500 --> 00:44:23.530
and howls and you refute it and deny it,

00:44:23.530 --> 00:44:25.440
and that has to do with the
body of medical evidence

00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.891
that suggests that it
is a mental aberration.

00:44:28.891 --> 00:44:30.330
- Isn't it possible that
the body of medical evidence

00:44:30.330 --> 00:44:32.450
could not have made a mistake?

00:44:32.450 --> 00:44:33.603
- It is possible, yes.

00:44:34.689 --> 00:44:37.683
- It's not only possible,
I'm almost sure of it.

00:44:38.978 --> 00:44:41.300
You see, that was always
where I was coming from.

00:44:41.300 --> 00:44:44.993
I'm not gonna allow you to
dictate to me about who I am.

00:44:46.060 --> 00:44:47.083
I know who I am.

00:44:48.336 --> 00:44:49.280
- You know, as a moderator on the show,

00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:51.540
you have a great responsibility
to your audience,

00:44:51.540 --> 00:44:54.080
and I really don't think
you're fulfilling that at all.

00:44:54.080 --> 00:44:55.820
- [David Susskind] Given a
choice, you'd be the way you are?

00:44:55.820 --> 00:44:58.390
- Why should a lesbian make it with a man

00:44:58.390 --> 00:45:01.057
when there are all these
lovely women in the world?

00:45:03.347 --> 00:45:05.220
- Let me make another
point, about this body

00:45:05.220 --> 00:45:07.823
of psychiatric literature
that you're so devoted to.

00:45:07.823 --> 00:45:12.770
(audience laughing and applauding)

00:45:12.770 --> 00:45:15.510
- It's a very rare occasion
when I defend psychiatry.

00:45:15.510 --> 00:45:16.675
This is one of them.

00:45:16.675 --> 00:45:17.819
- Yeah, maybe it makes you feel good

00:45:17.819 --> 00:45:19.420
to be able to say that we are sick.

00:45:19.420 --> 00:45:20.320
Does it make you feel good?

00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:21.460
- [Panel Member] It's important for our-

00:45:21.460 --> 00:45:22.530
- Of course not, Reverend Kennedy.

00:45:22.530 --> 00:45:24.990
- And I say that the body of
knowledge which claims sickness

00:45:24.990 --> 00:45:26.999
for homosexuality has to be challenged.

00:45:26.999 --> 00:45:28.899
(audience applauding)

00:45:33.240 --> 00:45:38.240
- At that point in time, we
started pressing for meetings

00:45:38.470 --> 00:45:41.460
and public forums where we could challenge

00:45:41.460 --> 00:45:43.093
the sickness label.

00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:47.850
Some well-regarded psychiatrists started

00:45:47.850 --> 00:45:52.637
to go to bat for us, so
the APA finally agreed.

00:45:53.850 --> 00:45:56.720
They gave us a really good platform

00:45:56.720 --> 00:45:59.760
at their annual meeting in Dallas.

00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:03.040
There would be two psychiatrists,

00:46:03.040 --> 00:46:06.233
and they invited Frank
Kameny and Barbara Gittings.

00:46:07.490 --> 00:46:10.250
Well, when I heard about
the plans for this,

00:46:10.250 --> 00:46:14.250
I said, "Well, you know,
what you need is one person

00:46:14.250 --> 00:46:17.677
who is both a psychiatrist and gay."

00:46:19.780 --> 00:46:22.540
- Well, it wasn't very easy in 1972

00:46:22.540 --> 00:46:26.310
to find a gay psychiatrist
who would come out openly,

00:46:26.310 --> 00:46:28.983
knowing what the risks were to a career.

00:46:29.910 --> 00:46:33.510
- Barbara contacted 10 or 12 psychiatrists

00:46:33.510 --> 00:46:36.390
who were in this secret society

00:46:36.390 --> 00:46:39.773
of gay psychiatrists called the GayPA.

00:46:41.590 --> 00:46:43.980
- I got a call from Barbara Gittings.

00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:47.170
She said, "John, I'm
looking for a psychiatrist

00:46:47.170 --> 00:46:50.327
to testify what it is like
to be a gay psychiatrist."

00:46:51.751 --> 00:46:54.020
My first reaction was, "No way!"

00:46:54.020 --> 00:46:57.914
- He said, "I will lose my
job, my medical license.

00:46:57.914 --> 00:47:00.270
There's still a lot of homophobia

00:47:00.270 --> 00:47:03.908
in the American Psychiatric Association."

00:47:03.908 --> 00:47:06.991
(instrumental music)

00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.853
John was a very dear friend for 25 years.

00:47:27.720 --> 00:47:32.720
After he died, we were
able to save 217 boxes

00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:38.240
full of his teaching
materials, personal letters,

00:47:38.240 --> 00:47:40.883
and his 50 years' worth of journals.

00:47:46.650 --> 00:47:48.400
That's a good one of John's family.

00:47:56.380 --> 00:47:59.493
John always called himself
a farm boy from Kentucky.

00:48:01.750 --> 00:48:03.353
But he was quite a prodigy.

00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:08.453
He went to college at 15.

00:48:09.730 --> 00:48:13.950
That's when he decided he
wanted to be a psychiatrist,

00:48:13.950 --> 00:48:16.155
so he could help people.

00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:24.250
John came to Philadelphia
in 1964 to start a residency

00:48:24.250 --> 00:48:26.480
at the University of Pennsylvania.

00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:29.850
He ran into terrible homophobia there

00:48:29.850 --> 00:48:32.183
and he got fired for being gay.

00:48:35.080 --> 00:48:38.113
It took a lot for him
to be quiet about it.

00:48:39.520 --> 00:48:44.520
He wanted to help with the
1972 meeting in Dallas,

00:48:45.220 --> 00:48:46.940
but had to protect himself.

00:48:48.850 --> 00:48:50.660
- He said, "I'll do it
only on the condition

00:48:50.660 --> 00:48:53.060
that I can wear a wig and a mask

00:48:53.060 --> 00:48:55.207
and use a voice-distorting microphone."

00:48:59.695 --> 00:49:02.977
- Barbara and I told this
to Frank, and he said,

00:49:02.977 --> 00:49:06.770
"Oh, that's terrible, that
goes against everything

00:49:06.770 --> 00:49:11.770
we have been fighting for,
to have somebody in a mask!"

00:49:11.970 --> 00:49:16.713
So we had a big fight over
that, but we did prevail.

00:49:17.630 --> 00:49:21.380
And Dr. John Fryer became Dr. H.

00:49:21.380 --> 00:49:24.330
Homosexual Anonymous.

00:49:24.330 --> 00:49:27.080
(dramatic music)

00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:36.223
When we got there, it was packed.

00:49:37.790 --> 00:49:39.807
Our panel was called

00:49:39.807 --> 00:49:43.207
"Psychiatry, Friend or Foe? A Dialogue."

00:49:44.090 --> 00:49:47.603
Barbara brought out Dr. H. Anonymous.

00:49:49.090 --> 00:49:52.090
I started to take pictures.

00:49:52.090 --> 00:49:54.490
And I could hardly believe it,

00:49:54.490 --> 00:49:57.703
I could have fallen off my chair!

00:49:59.328 --> 00:50:01.560
We thought he would have
on a nice little mask,

00:50:01.560 --> 00:50:03.810
like the Lone Ranger.

00:50:03.810 --> 00:50:07.676
No, he was in this grotesque, big mask,

00:50:07.676 --> 00:50:10.370
a big wig on.

00:50:10.370 --> 00:50:13.633
It looked more like
Halloween than anything else.

00:50:15.380 --> 00:50:19.733
We were all very concerned
about how this would go over.

00:50:25.903 --> 00:50:28.453
- [Harry Adamson] I thought
this tape was lost to history.

00:50:32.570 --> 00:50:36.593
- [Dr. John Fryer] I am a
homosexual. I am a psychiatrist.

00:50:37.720 --> 00:50:42.310
It is time that real
flesh and blood stand up

00:50:42.310 --> 00:50:45.860
before this organization and ask

00:50:45.860 --> 00:50:48.433
to be listened to and understood.

00:50:50.140 --> 00:50:55.140
I am in disguise tonight in
order that I might speak freely.

00:50:55.790 --> 00:50:59.070
What is it like to be a homosexual

00:50:59.070 --> 00:51:00.813
who is also a psychiatrist?

00:51:02.352 --> 00:51:05.120
Many of us work 20 hours
daily to protect institutions

00:51:05.120 --> 00:51:07.640
who would literally chew
us up and spit us out

00:51:07.640 --> 00:51:08.933
if they knew the truth.

00:51:10.100 --> 00:51:12.313
All of us have something to lose.

00:51:13.590 --> 00:51:16.473
We may not be under
consideration for professorship.

00:51:17.600 --> 00:51:20.740
Our supervisor may ask us
to take a leave of absence

00:51:20.740 --> 00:51:21.703
or fire us.

00:51:23.370 --> 00:51:24.870
We're taking an even bigger risk, however,

00:51:24.870 --> 00:51:26.787
in not living fully our humanity,

00:51:28.330 --> 00:51:30.350
with all the lessons it has to teach

00:51:30.350 --> 00:51:32.313
all the other humans around us.

00:51:34.680 --> 00:51:36.929
This is the greatest loss,

00:51:38.213 --> 00:51:40.488
our honest humanity.

00:51:42.625 --> 00:51:44.900
- He represented all the people

00:51:44.900 --> 00:51:47.626
who were hiding and invisible.

00:51:47.626 --> 00:51:50.076
And it turned out to be
just enormously powerful.

00:51:51.020 --> 00:51:53.632
- It helped people know
that within psychiatry,

00:51:53.632 --> 00:51:55.100
there was injustice.

00:51:55.100 --> 00:51:56.530
Not just we were harming other patients,

00:51:56.530 --> 00:51:57.830
we were harming psychiatrists too

00:51:57.830 --> 00:51:59.300
and the field of psychiatry.

00:51:59.300 --> 00:52:03.120
And did we really want to
eliminate lots of good people

00:52:03.120 --> 00:52:06.723
from the field because
they were gay or bisexual?

00:52:08.200 --> 00:52:11.180
- [Kay Lahusen] It was a
game-changer that really got some

00:52:11.180 --> 00:52:14.753
of the psychiatrists
rethinking their position.

00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:21.453
- John kept a bound journal every year.

00:52:22.870 --> 00:52:25.580
This is the first I've ever seen of any,

00:52:25.580 --> 00:52:28.320
and it is from Dallas.

00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:31.803
This is right after he gave the speech.

00:52:34.067 --> 00:52:36.010
"The day has passed.

00:52:36.010 --> 00:52:38.993
It has come and gone,
and I am still alive.

00:52:40.110 --> 00:52:43.760
For the first time, I have
identified with a force

00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:45.703
which is akin to my selfhood.

00:52:46.649 --> 00:52:51.560
I am a homosexual, and I am
the only American psychiatrist

00:52:51.560 --> 00:52:56.310
who has stood up on a podium
to let real flesh and blood

00:52:56.310 --> 00:52:58.373
tell the nation it is so.

00:52:59.520 --> 00:53:02.160
Barbara Gittings and Frank Kameny

00:53:02.160 --> 00:53:04.603
have helped us all very much.

00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:08.087
I hope that the effort does not die."

00:53:12.720 --> 00:53:14.110
- [Reporter] A growing
number of psychiatrists

00:53:14.110 --> 00:53:16.470
have begun to share the
Gay Liberationist view

00:53:16.470 --> 00:53:19.673
that homosexuality, per
se, is not an illness.

00:53:21.350 --> 00:53:23.380
According to Dr. Robert L. Spitzer,

00:53:23.380 --> 00:53:27.080
the Gay Activists Alliance
recently requested and received

00:53:27.080 --> 00:53:28.860
an opportunity to present their views

00:53:28.860 --> 00:53:31.327
before the APA Nomenclature Committee.

00:53:33.372 --> 00:53:37.680
- I lit up like an incandescent bulb.

00:53:37.680 --> 00:53:40.510
Because I knew that was the committee

00:53:40.510 --> 00:53:44.213
that decided what went in
the DSM and what didn't.

00:53:46.302 --> 00:53:49.469
(soft dramatic music)

00:53:56.210 --> 00:53:59.850
- At that time, I was
studying to get a PhD

00:53:59.850 --> 00:54:01.373
in clinical psychology.

00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:06.500
So I was asked to make the
professional presentation

00:54:06.500 --> 00:54:10.553
on both theory and research
about homosexuality.

00:54:13.220 --> 00:54:17.980
- I was on the Nomenclature
Committee, and Dr. Silverstein

00:54:17.980 --> 00:54:22.980
was making the case that we
had overlooked a great deal

00:54:23.190 --> 00:54:27.290
of existing research that contradicted

00:54:27.290 --> 00:54:31.383
the view that homosexuality
was an illness.

00:54:33.440 --> 00:54:36.170
- [Charles Silverstein] One
part was about Evelyn Hooker's

00:54:36.170 --> 00:54:39.713
research paper from 1956.

00:54:41.260 --> 00:54:43.410
- Evie Hooker was a psychologist.

00:54:43.410 --> 00:54:47.270
Her research consisted of
giving a series of tests

00:54:47.270 --> 00:54:50.220
to some people who were gay
and some who were heterosexual.

00:54:55.310 --> 00:54:59.670
- I was using, for the
interpretation of those tests,

00:54:59.670 --> 00:55:03.490
the best experts I could
find in the country,

00:55:03.490 --> 00:55:06.330
whose capacity to interpret those tests

00:55:06.330 --> 00:55:08.033
was internationally known.

00:55:09.140 --> 00:55:11.300
- [Richard Pillard] And the
experienced interpreters

00:55:11.300 --> 00:55:13.130
couldn't distinguish the gay people

00:55:13.130 --> 00:55:14.660
from the straight people.

00:55:14.660 --> 00:55:17.447
- Which means there's no
difference in the pathology

00:55:17.447 --> 00:55:20.970
between the gay man and the straight man.

00:55:20.970 --> 00:55:23.610
- But this was the 1950s.

00:55:23.610 --> 00:55:26.483
Conservatism still dominated the country.

00:55:28.040 --> 00:55:31.820
As with Freud and Kinsey,
psychiatrists from the old guard

00:55:31.820 --> 00:55:33.233
did not want to hear this.

00:55:34.310 --> 00:55:38.060
But by the early '70s, things changed,

00:55:38.060 --> 00:55:41.583
and new psychiatrists listened
with a more sympathetic ear.

00:55:44.980 --> 00:55:47.050
- The point is not that
times are changing,

00:55:47.050 --> 00:55:48.553
but that times have changed.

00:55:50.060 --> 00:55:53.110
What we are saying is that you must choose

00:55:53.110 --> 00:55:58.110
between the undocumented theories
that have unjustly harmed

00:55:58.110 --> 00:56:00.310
a great number of people

00:56:00.310 --> 00:56:04.193
or the controlled scientific
studies cited here.

00:56:07.168 --> 00:56:10.746
- He really caught the
attention of everybody,

00:56:10.746 --> 00:56:15.746
because you could not dispute
one word of what he said,

00:56:16.540 --> 00:56:21.370
and he had all of the backup material

00:56:21.370 --> 00:56:23.520
that he could show you.

00:56:23.520 --> 00:56:25.033
Look, it's right there.

00:56:26.021 --> 00:56:28.433
It was an imposing presentation.

00:56:31.150 --> 00:56:34.383
- And that just kicked up a storm.

00:56:42.740 --> 00:56:44.880
- The pressure within the APA built

00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:47.463
for some reassessment to happen.

00:56:48.330 --> 00:56:51.570
And Bob Spitzer became a crucial person

00:56:51.570 --> 00:56:54.553
in helping the APA debate
the illness question.

00:56:55.870 --> 00:56:59.710
But only in order to determine
what would be the criteria

00:56:59.710 --> 00:57:02.250
by which you would decide whether a person

00:57:02.250 --> 00:57:03.643
is sick or not sick.

00:57:05.130 --> 00:57:08.220
It was clear that he was
in no sense an advocate

00:57:08.220 --> 00:57:10.743
for or against; he just
wanted information.

00:57:14.070 --> 00:57:17.266
- As he got involved with
this, colleagues of his

00:57:17.266 --> 00:57:20.680
started to wonder, up at
the Psychiatric Institute,

00:57:20.680 --> 00:57:22.183
whether or not he was gay.

00:57:23.300 --> 00:57:24.613
That was not the case.

00:57:25.490 --> 00:57:27.710
He just wanted to bring psychiatry

00:57:27.710 --> 00:57:30.333
to a more scientific level.

00:57:32.690 --> 00:57:35.450
- And it was his idea that we should have

00:57:35.450 --> 00:57:38.680
this big panel at the next convention

00:57:38.680 --> 00:57:42.500
where for the first time,
all of the opposing sides

00:57:42.500 --> 00:57:45.850
in this fight were to get a
chance to directly address

00:57:45.850 --> 00:57:50.513
each other and discuss their
positions on homosexuality.

00:57:51.510 --> 00:57:54.100
And I said, "Great! That's a good idea."

00:57:54.100 --> 00:57:58.170
Then he says, "You will
be on the panel as well."

00:57:58.170 --> 00:57:59.010
And I said: "What?"

00:57:59.010 --> 00:58:02.752
You know, I couldn't believe
that it was gonna be,

00:58:02.752 --> 00:58:05.433
that he decided to put me on the panel.

00:58:10.470 --> 00:58:12.161
- [Announcer] Aloha!

00:58:12.161 --> 00:58:15.710
Welcome to Honolulu and
the 126th annual meeting

00:58:15.710 --> 00:58:19.035
of the American Psychiatric Association.

00:58:19.035 --> 00:58:21.785
(dramatic music)

00:58:28.180 --> 00:58:30.587
- A homosexual reported to me,

00:58:30.587 --> 00:58:34.250
"I've got to get this
homosexual monkey off my back.

00:58:34.250 --> 00:58:36.720
I just frankly can't live with it."

00:58:36.720 --> 00:58:39.980
That is why some of us treat homosexuals.

00:58:39.980 --> 00:58:41.900
- If our judgment about the mental health

00:58:41.900 --> 00:58:45.520
of heterosexuals were based
only on those whom we see

00:58:45.520 --> 00:58:48.550
in our clinical practices,
we would have to conclude

00:58:48.550 --> 00:58:51.363
that all heterosexuals
are also mentally ill.

00:58:52.270 --> 00:58:55.320
- Homosexuality is not a normal variant

00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:56.740
of sexual functioning.

00:58:56.740 --> 00:58:59.050
I have never seen a male homosexual

00:58:59.050 --> 00:59:02.100
who has an intact sense of masculinity.

00:59:02.100 --> 00:59:04.180
- The worst thing about your diagnosis

00:59:04.180 --> 00:59:05.973
is that gay people believe it.

00:59:06.810 --> 00:59:10.203
Nothing makes you sick like
believing that you're sick.

00:59:11.256 --> 00:59:14.493
- Socarides and Bieber argued
vigorously, but Ron Gold,

00:59:14.493 --> 00:59:17.570
I've never forgotten
the title of his paper.

00:59:17.570 --> 00:59:19.080
He got up there and he yelled out,

00:59:19.080 --> 00:59:20.893
- Stop it! You're making me sick!

00:59:23.597 --> 00:59:28.040
- He gave a very amusing presentation,

00:59:28.040 --> 00:59:31.990
but it had cold, hard facts.

00:59:31.990 --> 00:59:33.980
He told it like it is.

00:59:38.470 --> 00:59:40.570
- [Ron Gold] The illness
theory of homosexuality

00:59:40.570 --> 00:59:43.570
is a pack of lies
concocted out of the myths

00:59:43.570 --> 00:59:47.213
of a patriarchal society
for a political purpose.

00:59:49.160 --> 00:59:53.274
Psychiatry, dedicated to
making sick people well,

00:59:53.274 --> 00:59:56.490
is the cornerstone of
a system of oppression

00:59:56.490 --> 00:59:59.020
that makes gay people sick.

00:59:59.020 --> 01:00:01.320
And my anger isn't turned inward.

01:00:01.320 --> 01:00:04.780
It's focused outward toward my oppressors,

01:00:04.780 --> 01:00:08.070
including those of you who
think you have the right

01:00:08.070 --> 01:00:10.790
to decide that perfectly happy people,

01:00:10.790 --> 01:00:13.100
who don't do the slightest
harm to themselves

01:00:13.100 --> 01:00:15.213
or anybody else, are sick.

01:00:16.550 --> 01:00:19.170
Take the damning label
of sickness away from us.

01:00:19.170 --> 01:00:20.823
Take us out of your nomenclature!

01:00:24.520 --> 01:00:28.830
When the speech was over, I
didn't know what to expect.

01:00:28.830 --> 01:00:30.870
But when a whole lot of them applauded

01:00:30.870 --> 01:00:34.893
and gave me a standing
ovation, I was flabbergasted.

01:00:40.590 --> 01:00:42.360
- Once that had been discussed,

01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:44.460
that also allowed many more psychiatrists

01:00:44.460 --> 01:00:46.780
to say more or less
that was a real debate,

01:00:46.780 --> 01:00:49.290
that was a real forum.

01:00:49.290 --> 01:00:50.560
Major things were said.

01:00:50.560 --> 01:00:54.070
It was talked about in that
tone of voice in Hawaii

01:00:54.070 --> 01:00:56.480
and for the next few months.

01:00:56.480 --> 01:00:59.580
During that time, Richard
Pillard and I knew

01:00:59.580 --> 01:01:02.950
that you would need several
levels of political support

01:01:02.950 --> 01:01:05.760
to agree with scientific facts.

01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:08.300
And so we formulated a resolution

01:01:08.300 --> 01:01:09.680
for the Northern New England Branch

01:01:09.680 --> 01:01:12.150
of the American Psychiatric Association.

01:01:12.150 --> 01:01:14.730
The goals of the revolution
were-- resolution. Interesting,

01:01:14.730 --> 01:01:16.460
I slipped and said "revolution."

01:01:16.460 --> 01:01:20.970
The goals of the resolution
were to stop discrimination

01:01:20.970 --> 01:01:23.810
against gay people and
to throw homosexuality

01:01:23.810 --> 01:01:26.690
out as a diagnosis.

01:01:26.690 --> 01:01:29.463
To our surprise, they passed it.

01:01:33.202 --> 01:01:35.788
- To have a whole branch of the country

01:01:35.788 --> 01:01:38.319
be willing to back this
kind of a resolution

01:01:38.319 --> 01:01:41.230
was enormously effective,

01:01:41.230 --> 01:01:43.770
and it worked its way up
through the bureaucracy

01:01:43.770 --> 01:01:45.770
of the American Psychiatric Association.

01:01:47.350 --> 01:01:50.750
- At the same time, in
parallel, we nominated people

01:01:50.750 --> 01:01:53.580
to be presidents of the APA,
several vice presidents,

01:01:53.580 --> 01:01:55.580
several secretaries, several treasurers.

01:01:56.940 --> 01:01:59.180
Some of these people were then elected

01:01:59.180 --> 01:02:01.170
to positions of power.

01:02:01.170 --> 01:02:04.400
And we hoped that with
a more reasonable board,

01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:06.930
we could get the APA to
say, "Yes, you're right.

01:02:06.930 --> 01:02:08.888
We're not only wrong but
we've been harming people."

01:02:10.727 --> 01:02:11.957
- Gay is good!

01:02:11.957 --> 01:02:14.550
- [Crowd] Gay is good!

01:02:14.550 --> 01:02:16.576
- Gay is proud!

01:02:16.576 --> 01:02:18.681
- [Crowd] Gay is proud!

01:02:18.681 --> 01:02:20.579
- Gay is healthy!

01:02:20.579 --> 01:02:23.420
- [Crowd] Gay is healthy!

01:02:23.420 --> 01:02:26.360
- We are seeing, close to my heart,

01:02:26.360 --> 01:02:31.040
the psychiatrists on the run.
(crowd cheering)

01:02:31.040 --> 01:02:34.273
Keep them running!

01:02:39.420 --> 01:02:40.980
- [Morley Safer] The attack by homosexuals

01:02:40.980 --> 01:02:43.200
against the psychiatric establishment

01:02:43.200 --> 01:02:45.003
is not confined to rhetoric.

01:02:46.750 --> 01:02:48.660
Homosexual therapists have started

01:02:48.660 --> 01:02:50.220
their own counseling centers,

01:02:50.220 --> 01:02:52.483
like the Institute for Human Development.

01:02:53.440 --> 01:02:56.740
Its director, Charles Silverstein,
says his therapy sessions

01:02:56.740 --> 01:02:59.810
are designed to help
homosexuals free themselves

01:02:59.810 --> 01:03:04.320
of the guilt and fear that he
says society and psychiatry

01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:05.523
have imposed on them.

01:03:06.900 --> 01:03:09.723
- Getting on "60 Minutes"
was quite a coup.

01:03:11.270 --> 01:03:14.384
It just so happens, the same day

01:03:14.384 --> 01:03:18.270
that "60 Minutes" was coming in,

01:03:18.270 --> 01:03:23.270
my mother decided to come up
from Florida and stay with me.

01:03:23.580 --> 01:03:27.150
Well, she came in and being
a proper Jewish mother,

01:03:27.150 --> 01:03:29.320
she wanted to do my laundry.

01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:31.660
I said, "No, you can't do my laundry.

01:03:31.660 --> 01:03:34.940
'60 Minutes' is coming here
because they're doing this program

01:03:34.940 --> 01:03:38.100
on being homosexual."

01:03:38.100 --> 01:03:41.960
So she said, "Well, why
do they want to film you?"

01:03:41.960 --> 01:03:45.337
I said, "Mother, I have to tell
you that I'm a homosexual."

01:03:46.570 --> 01:03:51.570
Well, she got obviously all
upset and right at that moment,

01:03:51.790 --> 01:03:54.980
the door opened and "60 Minutes" came in.

01:03:54.980 --> 01:03:59.980
And she was so upset that she
decided to leave my apartment

01:04:00.160 --> 01:04:05.160
and go stay with my brother
at his apartment in Teaneck,

01:04:05.710 --> 01:04:07.593
much to my brother's chagrin.

01:04:08.900 --> 01:04:12.110
But she got over this pretty quickly.

01:04:12.110 --> 01:04:16.290
When the episode appeared,
she was sure to tell

01:04:16.290 --> 01:04:19.913
all of her girlfriends in
her condominium in Miami.

01:04:20.860 --> 01:04:23.993
And then became proud
about her son, the doctor.

01:04:25.020 --> 01:04:27.755
Something I'd like to ask you to do.

01:04:27.755 --> 01:04:30.250
And that is to be able to tell people

01:04:30.250 --> 01:04:33.240
how to deal with their kids who are gay.

01:04:33.240 --> 01:04:37.330
- It seems absurd that at 25
years old, I'm a grown man,

01:04:37.330 --> 01:04:38.612
that I have to...

01:04:43.550 --> 01:04:46.279
That I have to ask my parents to love me.

01:04:46.279 --> 01:04:48.050
- If you want to call
me a deviant, you can.

01:04:48.050 --> 01:04:50.810
If you want to say I'm immoral, you can.

01:04:50.810 --> 01:04:52.810
But there's a very important difference

01:04:52.810 --> 01:04:56.050
between saying I'm immoral
and saying I'm sick.

01:04:56.050 --> 01:04:58.620
- And indeed, a decision
to remove homosexuality

01:04:58.620 --> 01:05:01.060
from this manual could have an effect

01:05:01.060 --> 01:05:03.360
on the very fabric of our present society.

01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:06.590
The majority, perhaps the more
conservative psychiatrists,

01:05:06.590 --> 01:05:08.600
wants it to remain in the manual.

01:05:08.600 --> 01:05:12.030
- The exclusion of this condition

01:05:12.030 --> 01:05:15.690
from our diagnostic nomenclature,
which would be tantamount

01:05:15.690 --> 01:05:17.290
to declaring it natural and normal,

01:05:17.290 --> 01:05:20.400
which is the current
fad, the current rage,

01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:23.530
as a matter of fact, perhaps
the greatest medical hoax,

01:05:23.530 --> 01:05:28.530
if it is perpetrated,
of our last 50 years,

01:05:29.089 --> 01:05:31.983
I think would be disastrous
in many, many ways.

01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:35.680
- So are homosexuals mentally sick?

01:05:35.680 --> 01:05:39.060
Or have they merely chosen
an alternative lifestyle?

01:05:39.060 --> 01:05:41.670
The psychiatric profession
will soon decide.

01:05:41.670 --> 01:05:44.520
A proposal to change the
nomenclature has started its way

01:05:44.520 --> 01:05:47.013
through the American
Psychiatric Association.

01:05:51.550 --> 01:05:53.770
- From the time we
first took our position,

01:05:53.770 --> 01:05:56.440
it took 10 years to get it moving

01:05:56.440 --> 01:05:59.730
over the opposition of traditionalists

01:05:59.730 --> 01:06:03.170
and through the APA governance structure

01:06:03.170 --> 01:06:05.163
of Byzantine complexity.

01:06:07.950 --> 01:06:11.560
- This was one of the most
considered issues in APA history.

01:06:11.560 --> 01:06:14.590
It was considered by councils,
committees, other councils,

01:06:14.590 --> 01:06:17.270
district branch, assembly,
back to district branches,

01:06:17.270 --> 01:06:19.680
back to assembly, and we needed an effort

01:06:19.680 --> 01:06:24.340
where we had to be tolerant
of both politics and science.

01:06:24.340 --> 01:06:28.880
And the psychiatric
organization is not uniquely

01:06:28.880 --> 01:06:32.200
in charge of one experiment
that tells you what truth is.

01:06:32.200 --> 01:06:34.960
It has to adjudicate among
all of what you know,

01:06:34.960 --> 01:06:36.750
among all of what science has been saying,

01:06:36.750 --> 01:06:39.340
among all of what people have
been discovering clinically,

01:06:39.340 --> 01:06:42.410
among all of what people
think and are worried about.

01:06:42.410 --> 01:06:44.611
And the APA was trying to do that.

01:06:44.611 --> 01:06:46.811
The Board of Trustees
was trying to do that.

01:06:52.940 --> 01:06:54.520
- [Charles Silverstein] December 15th,

01:06:54.520 --> 01:06:57.320
the American Psychiatric Association

01:06:57.320 --> 01:06:59.013
held a news conference.

01:07:00.870 --> 01:07:03.863
They were going to
announce the APA decision.

01:07:05.810 --> 01:07:07.790
I, together with a number of other people,

01:07:07.790 --> 01:07:09.693
went to Washington.

01:07:10.950 --> 01:07:13.060
Barbara Gittings was there.

01:07:13.060 --> 01:07:16.948
Frank Kameny and Ron Gold.

01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:24.750
- We were taking questions
from these various people.

01:07:24.750 --> 01:07:26.909
I had butterflies in my stomach,

01:07:26.909 --> 01:07:29.510
'cause we had worked
very hard to make sure

01:07:29.510 --> 01:07:31.110
it came out good.

01:07:31.110 --> 01:07:32.510
But we didn't know it would.

01:07:35.470 --> 01:07:38.523
- We were still in a minority position.

01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:44.833
People would come to us and
say we were on a fool's errand,

01:07:44.833 --> 01:07:47.290
that nothing would ever come of this.

01:08:09.410 --> 01:08:11.620
- This was a revolutionary moment

01:08:11.620 --> 01:08:16.110
in which homosexuality, per
se, was not a mental disorder.

01:08:16.110 --> 01:08:18.360
Millions were cured with
the stroke of a pen.

01:08:19.560 --> 01:08:22.613
- We were overwhelmed with joy.

01:08:24.120 --> 01:08:25.050
We couldn't believe it.

01:08:25.050 --> 01:08:27.003
I thought we would be fighting forever.

01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:30.383
But then suddenly, boom!

01:08:33.310 --> 01:08:36.900
- Psychoanalysts, especially
Socarides and Bieber,

01:08:36.900 --> 01:08:39.560
thought that this was an
assault on psychoanalysis,

01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:43.183
and they started referendum
by petition to overturn it.

01:08:44.060 --> 01:08:47.740
- And they raised enough signatures

01:08:47.740 --> 01:08:52.740
so that the APA had to poll the members.

01:08:54.220 --> 01:08:56.750
- Well, I thought it was
a mockery of psychiatry

01:08:56.750 --> 01:08:58.840
to put it to a popular vote.

01:08:58.840 --> 01:09:00.710
That's not the way you decide something.

01:09:00.710 --> 01:09:03.594
You look at the data,
you look at the evidence,

01:09:03.594 --> 01:09:08.480
you look at its impact,
socially, psychologically,

01:09:08.480 --> 01:09:11.230
and you make your hopefully
learned decisions that way.

01:09:15.432 --> 01:09:19.320
- Socarides' idea was that most
psychiatrists still believed

01:09:19.320 --> 01:09:21.570
that gay people were sick.

01:09:21.570 --> 01:09:24.640
And, of course, the irony
of his own son being gay

01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:26.840
didn't deter Socarides at all.

01:09:29.220 --> 01:09:33.500
- Years later, I finally had to corner him

01:09:33.500 --> 01:09:35.970
into seeing him in his office.

01:09:35.970 --> 01:09:38.820
I just told him, I said, "Dad,
you know, this is something

01:09:38.820 --> 01:09:41.140
that we have both known for
a long time, but I need to,

01:09:41.140 --> 01:09:44.010
like, actually tell you that I'm gay,

01:09:44.010 --> 01:09:45.730
that I'm attracted to men."

01:09:45.730 --> 01:09:49.780
And he had a momentary violent
reaction where he pulled out

01:09:49.780 --> 01:09:53.240
a gun and put it to his head.

01:09:53.240 --> 01:09:55.890
He didn't pull the trigger,
I'm sure it wasn't loaded,

01:09:55.890 --> 01:09:58.860
but said, like, you know,
"You can't do this to me."

01:09:58.860 --> 01:10:01.820
And I walked out of the room.

01:10:01.820 --> 01:10:04.370
What I needed to do, I
accomplished by telling him.

01:10:05.218 --> 01:10:06.051
And that was it.

01:10:07.550 --> 01:10:12.410
His position on the issue
became so interconnected

01:10:12.410 --> 01:10:17.080
with his professional standing
that he couldn't re-examine

01:10:17.080 --> 01:10:21.960
his initial view of this and it, you know,

01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:23.220
he was just stuck with it.

01:10:23.220 --> 01:10:24.299
He couldn't let it go.

01:10:26.810 --> 01:10:30.450
- The vote really concerned
us because no one was sure

01:10:30.450 --> 01:10:32.870
whether most psychiatrists were in favor

01:10:32.870 --> 01:10:34.370
of dropping homosexuality

01:10:34.370 --> 01:10:36.773
from The Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual.

01:10:48.880 --> 01:10:51.470
- The American Psychiatric
Association announced today

01:10:51.470 --> 01:10:55.050
that its membership has
voted to remove homosexuality

01:10:55.050 --> 01:10:57.690
from the Association's
list of mental disorders.

01:10:57.690 --> 01:11:00.560
- In the mail referendum,
58% of the membership

01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:04.200
upheld the earlier decision
by the APA's board.

01:11:04.200 --> 01:11:06.780
- Homosexual organizations
see the referendum vote

01:11:06.780 --> 01:11:08.560
as a landmark decision.

01:11:08.560 --> 01:11:10.490
In the words of one such organization,

01:11:10.490 --> 01:11:12.313
the greatest gay victory.

01:11:15.160 --> 01:11:18.850
- This albatross that
had been around our neck

01:11:18.850 --> 01:11:21.060
was finally lifted.

01:11:21.060 --> 01:11:24.433
It was as though the world
had dropped off our shoulders.

01:11:30.203 --> 01:11:32.653
- The word spread very quickly,

01:11:33.636 --> 01:11:37.111
and the effect was electric.

01:11:39.260 --> 01:11:41.880
- And, of course, when we got the result,

01:11:41.880 --> 01:11:44.463
we hooted and hollered
and jumped up and down.

01:11:47.320 --> 01:11:49.478
- I heard it on the radio.

01:11:49.478 --> 01:11:51.129
Well, I went out and bought
a bottle of champagne

01:11:51.129 --> 01:11:54.623
and thought it was time to
celebrate (chuckles), yeah.

01:11:55.506 --> 01:11:58.423
(victorious music)

01:12:14.972 --> 01:12:17.639
(subdued music)

01:12:58.197 --> 01:13:00.664
- [Announcer] Ladies and gentlemen,

01:13:00.664 --> 01:13:03.303
please welcome the CEO
and Medical Director

01:13:03.303 --> 01:13:08.303
of the American Psychiatric
Association, Dr. Saul Levin.

01:13:08.516 --> 01:13:11.683
(audience applauding)

01:13:14.330 --> 01:13:16.550
- For all the progress we have made,

01:13:16.550 --> 01:13:18.800
there are still some areas
where we must improve

01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:21.130
as we work towards our next milestone

01:13:21.130 --> 01:13:23.230
of the 200th anniversary.

01:13:23.230 --> 01:13:27.490
The fact that I'm here truly
shows that APA is way past

01:13:27.490 --> 01:13:31.310
that discrimination that they
did all those years back.

01:13:31.310 --> 01:13:34.350
I'm a psychiatrist and I'm a homosexual.

01:13:34.350 --> 01:13:35.270
Nice to meet you.

01:13:35.270 --> 01:13:36.845
- [Audience Member] Nice to meet you.

01:13:36.845 --> 01:13:38.770
I noticed everyone wearing
these buttons. Who's John?

01:13:38.770 --> 01:13:43.770
- John Fryer was the psychiatrist
who, in 1972, wore a mask,

01:13:45.020 --> 01:13:46.740
came to this meeting--

01:13:46.740 --> 01:13:49.210
I go where it's not even
mentioned that I'm gay.

01:13:49.210 --> 01:13:51.060
You know, if anything, it's the accent

01:13:51.060 --> 01:13:53.490
that gets mentioned
more than anything else.

01:13:53.490 --> 01:13:56.750
And isn't that the real, ultimate victory

01:13:56.750 --> 01:13:59.490
of what all those heroes back there did?

01:14:04.130 --> 01:14:06.910
- In this moment, I want
to honor and remember those

01:14:06.910 --> 01:14:10.850
who paved the way that
brings us here this day.

01:14:10.850 --> 01:14:13.560
Out, loud and proud.

01:14:13.560 --> 01:14:14.570
Say it with me.

01:14:14.570 --> 01:14:17.953
Out, loud and proud!

01:14:22.343 --> 01:14:24.215
♪ We've lived through the fire ♪

01:14:24.215 --> 01:14:28.008
♪ We've run through the rain ♪

01:14:28.008 --> 01:14:32.652
♪ We've walked on a wire,
we fought through the pain ♪

01:14:32.652 --> 01:14:37.652
♪ We survived and arrived
more alive than we started ♪

01:14:38.056 --> 01:14:39.526
♪ Like a great kind of wave ♪

01:14:39.526 --> 01:14:43.390
♪ Like a chain off our hearts and ♪

01:14:43.390 --> 01:14:48.390
♪ Even though we've gone far,
we've got farther to go ♪

01:14:48.484 --> 01:14:53.484
♪ Gonna follow our star,
gonna follow our road ♪

01:14:53.707 --> 01:14:58.707
♪ We'll accept every step
to the death with desire ♪

01:14:59.015 --> 01:15:00.483
♪ We'll persist through the twists ♪

01:15:00.483 --> 01:15:04.347
♪ Without fists we are fighters ♪

01:15:04.347 --> 01:15:09.347
♪ I know that we ain't
gonna slow or stop ♪

01:15:09.438 --> 01:15:12.621
♪ Until we go ♪

01:15:12.621 --> 01:15:16.323
♪ to the other side of the rainbow ♪

01:15:16.323 --> 01:15:18.813
♪ Oh-h-h ♪

01:15:18.813 --> 01:15:21.817
♪ We'll be there with the clouds on top ♪

01:15:21.817 --> 01:15:24.700
♪ The day we go ♪

01:15:24.700 --> 01:15:28.466
♪ to the other side of the rainbow ♪

01:15:30.243 --> 01:15:32.826
(upbeat music)

01:15:45.400 --> 01:15:50.033
- Being in a social change
movement is very American.

01:15:50.980 --> 01:15:53.330
You always hope that what you're doing

01:15:53.330 --> 01:15:55.630
will be significant and will live on

01:15:55.630 --> 01:15:58.210
and lead to better things.

01:15:58.210 --> 01:16:01.487
But you don't know for sure.
You're taking a chance.

01:16:06.990 --> 01:16:11.010
- Through all of this, we
didn't want kids growing up

01:16:11.010 --> 01:16:12.968
feeling bad about themselves.

01:16:13.810 --> 01:16:15.873
And I think we all felt that.

01:16:15.873 --> 01:16:20.873
That we were doing it
for younger generations,

01:16:21.110 --> 01:16:22.543
not just for ourselves.

01:16:29.243 --> 01:16:31.260
- We thought we were right,
but we weren't at all clear

01:16:31.260 --> 01:16:34.180
that it would turn out to
have legacy and ripples

01:16:34.180 --> 01:16:36.830
and importance and other
things could be built on it.

01:16:37.913 --> 01:16:40.473
It was surprising how
important it turned out to be.

01:16:41.636 --> 01:16:46.356
♪ The storm isn't over,
but sunshine is here ♪

01:16:46.356 --> 01:16:51.356
♪ We won't let it fade
'cause we won't disappear ♪

01:16:51.609 --> 01:16:53.209
♪ We've been bruised but can't lose ♪

01:16:53.209 --> 01:16:56.914
♪ We refuse to be silent ♪

01:16:56.914 --> 01:16:58.435
♪ Might be stained but remain ♪

01:16:58.435 --> 01:17:02.280
♪ We sustain with defiance ♪

01:17:02.280 --> 01:17:07.280
♪ I know, that we ain't
gonna slow or stop ♪

01:17:07.664 --> 01:17:10.975
♪ Until we go oh-h-h ♪

01:17:10.975 --> 01:17:14.870
♪ To the other side of the rainbow ♪

01:17:14.870 --> 01:17:19.663
♪ Oh, we'll be there
with the clouds on top ♪

01:17:19.663 --> 01:17:23.108
♪ The day we go oh-h-h ♪

01:17:23.108 --> 01:17:27.943
♪ To the other side of the rainbow ♪

01:17:27.943 --> 01:17:31.998
♪ And when we're in the sky ♪

01:17:31.998 --> 01:17:36.998
♪ We'll cry so you still try ♪

01:17:40.851 --> 01:17:45.851
♪ I know that we ain't
gonna slow or stop ♪

01:17:46.645 --> 01:17:50.094
♪ Until we go oh-h-h ♪

01:17:50.094 --> 01:17:55.094
♪ To the other side of the rainbow ♪