WEBVTT

00:00:35.089 --> 00:00:36.897
- They can be anywhere.

00:00:36.898 --> 00:00:39.947
They can be policemen,
they can be schoolteachers,

00:00:39.948 --> 00:00:41.681
they can be judges, lawyers.

00:00:41.682 --> 00:00:43.932
We ought to know, we\'ve
arrested all of them.

00:00:45.558 --> 00:00:48.987
And if we catch you
involved with a homosexual,

00:00:48.988 --> 00:00:52.017
your parents are going
to know about it first.

00:00:52.018 --> 00:00:55.087
And you will be caught,
and the rest of your life

00:00:55.088 --> 00:00:56.188
will be a living hell.

00:01:01.318 --> 00:01:02.787
- [Mike Wallace] Most
Americans are repelled

00:01:02.788 --> 00:01:04.631
by the mere notion of homosexuality.

00:01:06.018 --> 00:01:07.404
- Homosexuals should be barred

00:01:07.405 --> 00:01:11.837
from the police department,
the fire department

00:01:11.838 --> 00:01:14.457
and teaching in our city schools.

00:01:14.458 --> 00:01:15.907
- [Mike Wallace] Two
out of three Americans

00:01:15.908 --> 00:01:19.841
look upon homosexuals with
disgust, discomfort, or fear.

00:01:22.278 --> 00:01:26.271
- I had one friend who was
beaten savagely by his father.

00:01:27.128 --> 00:01:29.947
He beat him, in fact, with bricks.

00:01:29.948 --> 00:01:31.327
- [Mike Wallace] We
discovered that Americans

00:01:31.328 --> 00:01:33.487
favor legal punishment.

00:01:33.488 --> 00:01:36.577
A vast majority believe that
homosexuality is an illness.

00:01:36.578 --> 00:01:38.881
- [Reporter] And what do you
suggest we could do about them?

00:01:38.882 --> 00:01:41.817
- Give them homes like they
do for the mentally insane.

00:01:41.818 --> 00:01:46.276
- Homosexuality is, in
fact, a mental illness,

00:01:46.277 --> 00:01:49.231
which has reached
epidemiological proportions.

00:01:50.578 --> 00:01:51.987
- [Mike Wallace] Many
psychiatrists now believe

00:01:51.988 --> 00:01:54.447
that homosexuality is learned behavior.

00:01:54.448 --> 00:01:57.417
And like almost anything
else that is learned,

00:01:57.418 --> 00:01:59.401
it can be unlearned.

00:02:02.168 --> 00:02:04.967
- [Barbara Gittings] I charge
the psychiatric profession

00:02:04.968 --> 00:02:08.007
with creating a poisoned climate

00:02:08.008 --> 00:02:10.028
of thinking about homosexuality.

00:02:11.810 --> 00:02:13.797
- [Ron Gold] To be viewed
as psychologically disturbed

00:02:13.798 --> 00:02:16.957
is to be treated as a
second-class citizen.

00:02:16.958 --> 00:02:19.997
And being a second-class
citizen is not good

00:02:19.998 --> 00:02:21.764
for my mental health.

00:02:21.765 --> 00:02:22.598
- [Protesters] Gay rights!

00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:24.117
What\'s the solution? Revolution!

00:02:24.118 --> 00:02:25.758
What\'s the fight? Gay rights!

00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:27.779
What\'s the solution? Revolution!

00:02:27.780 --> 00:02:30.197
What\'s the fight? Gay rights!

00:02:44.019 --> 00:02:46.602
(somber music)

00:02:58.881 --> 00:03:02.387
- Yeah, this was a sort of
a selfie of the generation.

00:03:02.388 --> 00:03:05.847
It\'s a self-portrait,
where I set up the camera

00:03:05.848 --> 00:03:07.761
and used a self-timer,

00:03:08.830 --> 00:03:12.147
trying to look very cool,
as one was supposed to look

00:03:12.148 --> 00:03:14.961
in those days. (chuckles)

00:03:17.608 --> 00:03:21.828
When I was 16, I knew that I was gay.

00:03:23.311 --> 00:03:24.587
I couldn\'t tell my parents,

00:03:24.588 --> 00:03:26.511
I couldn\'t tell religious leaders.

00:03:28.268 --> 00:03:31.161
If it was exposed, you would
bring shame on your family.

00:03:32.498 --> 00:03:35.731
The word meant you were mentally ill.

00:03:37.068 --> 00:03:40.284
As a kid, you\'re scared shitless.

00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:44.144
(school bell ringing)

00:03:48.968 --> 00:03:51.267
- I was in junior high school,

00:03:51.268 --> 00:03:55.111
and the word got out that I was a lesbian.

00:03:57.238 --> 00:04:00.507
Well, my mother was very
upset with what she had heard,

00:04:00.508 --> 00:04:04.917
and her idea was, this is not normal,

00:04:04.918 --> 00:04:07.827
and if I didn\'t consent to get married,

00:04:07.828 --> 00:04:09.161
that I would go to Utica.

00:04:11.193 --> 00:04:13.181
That was the mental institution.

00:04:14.778 --> 00:04:17.301
That happened to a lot of
my friends who were gay.

00:04:18.178 --> 00:04:20.777
You\'d see them today, and
a couple of weeks later

00:04:20.778 --> 00:04:21.878
you wouldn\'t see them.

00:04:22.968 --> 00:04:26.347
And so it was either get
married or go to Utica.

00:04:26.348 --> 00:04:28.301
I got married at 14.

00:04:32.548 --> 00:04:35.034
Most people in those days,
that\'s what they thought,

00:04:35.035 --> 00:04:37.247
you know, you get married,
okay, you\'d be cured,

00:04:37.248 --> 00:04:39.848
or we\'re going to put you
in a mental institution.

00:04:43.678 --> 00:04:46.667
- It is very hard nowadays
to have any awareness

00:04:46.668 --> 00:04:48.968
of how different the
world was for gay people.

00:04:51.172 --> 00:04:53.857
In the 1950s and 60s, we had church

00:04:53.858 --> 00:04:56.351
deciding homosexuality was sinful,

00:04:57.238 --> 00:05:00.217
governments deciding that it was criminal,

00:05:00.218 --> 00:05:03.251
and then we had psychiatrists
state that we were sick.

00:05:08.038 --> 00:05:10.807
Both of my parents were psychoanalysts,

00:05:10.808 --> 00:05:12.767
so I read the psychiatric literature

00:05:12.768 --> 00:05:15.037
in my teens and twenties.

00:05:15.038 --> 00:05:18.919
It said gay people are
universally nasty, pathetic,

00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:21.847
psychotic, manipulative, superficial,

00:05:21.848 --> 00:05:23.771
unable to form real relationships.

00:05:25.218 --> 00:05:29.031
As a young gay person,
that was devastating,

00:05:30.208 --> 00:05:33.611
but it\'s what psychiatrists
believed at the time.

00:05:34.608 --> 00:05:38.107
- The most frequent pattern
that you find is a dominant,

00:05:38.108 --> 00:05:42.177
seductive mother, controlling, possessive,

00:05:42.178 --> 00:05:45.947
and a rather weak,
distant, or absent father.

00:05:45.948 --> 00:05:48.197
- We usually are referring
to male homosexuals,

00:05:48.198 --> 00:05:49.517
but also in the females.

00:05:49.518 --> 00:05:52.937
The triangle between the
parents and the child.

00:05:52.938 --> 00:05:57.827
- I do not believe that
it is possible to produce

00:05:57.828 --> 00:06:01.857
a homosexual if the father

00:06:01.858 --> 00:06:04.957
is a constructive father to his son.

00:06:04.958 --> 00:06:06.087
- I was wondering if you think

00:06:06.088 --> 00:06:08.038
that there are any \"happy homosexuals\"?

00:06:09.093 --> 00:06:11.177
- The fact that somebody
is homosexual automatically

00:06:11.178 --> 00:06:15.517
rules out the possibility
that he will remain happy

00:06:15.518 --> 00:06:17.288
for long, in my opinion.

00:06:19.728 --> 00:06:20.561
- [Lawrence Hartmann] Many
of these psychiatrists

00:06:20.562 --> 00:06:23.637
were in charge of the American
Psychiatric Association,

00:06:23.638 --> 00:06:25.345
or the APA.

00:06:25.346 --> 00:06:26.827
This was by far

00:06:26.828 --> 00:06:29.785
the most important psychiatric
organization on earth.

00:06:29.786 --> 00:06:31.707
It was the biggest, it was the richest,

00:06:31.708 --> 00:06:33.677
it was the most influential.

00:06:33.678 --> 00:06:37.270
And they had the power,
ultimately calling homosexuality

00:06:37.271 --> 00:06:39.827
a mental illness in the first edition

00:06:39.828 --> 00:06:43.531
of The Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual in 1952.

00:06:48.118 --> 00:06:52.471
- The Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual, DSM,

00:06:53.318 --> 00:06:57.521
lists all of the mental disorders.

00:06:59.448 --> 00:07:04.391
It\'s that list that defines
who is sick and who is not.

00:07:06.408 --> 00:07:11.357
And in there is a section
of sexual deviations,

00:07:11.358 --> 00:07:14.801
and homosexuality was
at the top of the list.

00:07:16.958 --> 00:07:21.611
That diagnosis was used in
many ways against gay people.

00:07:23.928 --> 00:07:25.207
- You couldn\'t keep your own children

00:07:25.208 --> 00:07:27.397
if you were in a marriage
and found to be gay.

00:07:27.398 --> 00:07:28.698
You couldn\'t be a teacher.

00:07:30.628 --> 00:07:32.397
You couldn\'t be a judge or a banker

00:07:32.398 --> 00:07:33.648
or a head of an industry.

00:07:35.761 --> 00:07:38.711
It meant you were open to
blackmail, which was very common.

00:07:40.850 --> 00:07:43.131
I wanted to be a psychiatrist.

00:07:44.028 --> 00:07:47.631
The only way of doing that
was to stay in the closet.

00:07:49.108 --> 00:07:51.357
I was suicidal for a while,

00:07:51.358 --> 00:07:55.047
and I certainly was
heavily clouded by the idea

00:07:55.048 --> 00:07:58.297
that if my parents, my
friends, and my teachers

00:07:58.298 --> 00:08:00.037
all think it\'s an illness,

00:08:00.038 --> 00:08:03.771
can I really be all right
about thinking that it\'s not?

00:08:06.296 --> 00:08:08.942
- Nobody talked about it.

00:08:08.943 --> 00:08:10.867
You could be sitting next
to a person that was gay,

00:08:10.868 --> 00:08:13.507
you\'d never know, because
they\'d be so far in the closet,

00:08:13.508 --> 00:08:15.558
you\'d have to shine a light to find them.

00:08:16.848 --> 00:08:19.797
- I was among the many who got married

00:08:19.798 --> 00:08:23.233
because all the authority
figures in the culture,

00:08:23.234 --> 00:08:27.897
the healthcare people all said,
\"Well, this is undesirable.

00:08:27.898 --> 00:08:30.648
This is an illness and what\'s
more, you can change it.\"

00:08:32.318 --> 00:08:33.617
- [Lawrence Hartmann]
Thousands of gay people

00:08:33.618 --> 00:08:36.067
went to psychiatrists to be cured,

00:08:36.068 --> 00:08:38.618
as if that were the main
thing wrong in their life.

00:08:39.878 --> 00:08:42.641
The most typical treatment
was talk therapy,

00:08:43.608 --> 00:08:46.667
but many gay people were subjected

00:08:46.668 --> 00:08:49.051
to more aggressive treatment.

00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:53.862
(somber music)

00:09:01.608 --> 00:09:04.321
- They were unable to cope
with the fact that I was gay,

00:09:06.998 --> 00:09:09.721
and so they looked for a doctor
who was going to cure me.

00:09:11.118 --> 00:09:14.657
And when I first saw him, I
recall his statement to me,

00:09:14.658 --> 00:09:16.647
that, \"Well, we could castrate you,

00:09:16.648 --> 00:09:19.648
but let\'s try some treatments
and see what we can do there.\"

00:09:20.628 --> 00:09:23.228
Next thing, I was going
into a mental institution

00:09:24.128 --> 00:09:25.871
and receiving shock therapy.

00:09:28.398 --> 00:09:30.831
It was a very frightening experience.

00:09:32.548 --> 00:09:35.671
We would wait for maybe an
hour or two for your turn.

00:09:37.078 --> 00:09:39.357
With utter terror, the clock would go

00:09:39.358 --> 00:09:41.217
and you\'d have people, someone would come

00:09:41.218 --> 00:09:43.367
and call the individuals
and you knew when your turn

00:09:43.368 --> 00:09:46.917
was coming and how, each time,
you would hope against hope

00:09:46.918 --> 00:09:48.377
that it wasn\'t your turn yet.

00:09:48.378 --> 00:09:50.767
That there would be one more
time before you had to go

00:09:50.768 --> 00:09:51.818
into the little room.

00:10:00.358 --> 00:10:02.761
You would go into a fairly small cubicle.

00:10:04.026 --> 00:10:06.668
A little machine would
be wheeled into the room.

00:10:12.455 --> 00:10:14.657
And you\'re aware, constantly,
of this little box over there

00:10:14.658 --> 00:10:17.046
and what it\'s going to do to you.

00:10:17.047 --> 00:10:18.208
- [Medical Personnel] This
will help you to get well.

00:10:18.209 --> 00:10:19.459
- [Patient] No!

00:10:26.768 --> 00:10:28.567
- [Rick] That would be the
last thing I would recall,

00:10:28.568 --> 00:10:31.457
would be just spinning
wildly out of control,

00:10:31.458 --> 00:10:33.811
until you lose total consciousness.

00:10:39.918 --> 00:10:44.918
- Many of us did have various
treatments, including shock.

00:10:46.858 --> 00:10:51.247
I personally don\'t know anybody
who was a friend of mine

00:10:51.248 --> 00:10:55.177
who underwent a lobotomy,
but that did happen.

00:10:55.178 --> 00:10:56.178
- [Surgeon] Ready?

00:10:58.268 --> 00:10:59.766
- [Interviewer] Why did
you have that operation,

00:10:59.767 --> 00:11:01.141
do you know?

00:11:01.142 --> 00:11:05.391
- I think it was something to
do with my sexual intercourse.

00:11:06.303 --> 00:11:09.301
- [Interviewer] Was
that seriously in error?

00:11:10.218 --> 00:11:13.137
- Well, I thought it was anyhow.

00:11:13.138 --> 00:11:16.161
- It takes away memories.

00:11:17.568 --> 00:11:21.031
Chunks of a person\'s life
are missing, forever.

00:11:24.358 --> 00:11:29.358
- I saw things that, anybody
who hadn\'t been through,

00:11:29.708 --> 00:11:31.937
who couldn\'t allow themselves to believe

00:11:31.938 --> 00:11:33.677
could happen in this country.

00:11:33.678 --> 00:11:37.331
But it was. It was like a,
you know, a horror movie.

00:11:43.072 --> 00:11:47.551
♪ I will never forget ♪

00:11:47.552 --> 00:11:50.996
♪ The time that we met ♪

00:11:50.997 --> 00:11:53.237
♪ There was spring in the air ♪

00:11:53.238 --> 00:11:58.238
- In 1961, I was living in Boston.

00:12:00.978 --> 00:12:05.407
I had already decided that
the psychiatrists were wrong

00:12:05.408 --> 00:12:09.591
and that their theories were just hogwash.

00:12:10.978 --> 00:12:13.937
I was working in the Reference Library

00:12:13.938 --> 00:12:16.251
at the Christian Science Monitor.

00:12:17.788 --> 00:12:21.471
I didn\'t know where on earth
to find other gay people.

00:12:22.328 --> 00:12:26.247
I finally said to myself,
\"What\'s wrong with me?

00:12:26.248 --> 00:12:28.317
I\'m researching everything in the world

00:12:28.318 --> 00:12:32.277
for everybody else here, but
I\'m not researching the thing

00:12:32.278 --> 00:12:34.425
that concerns me the most.\"

00:12:35.588 --> 00:12:38.861
And that\'s when I found
the Daughters of Bilitis.

00:12:40.287 --> 00:12:43.137
- [Reporter] Founded
in 1955, the Daughters

00:12:43.138 --> 00:12:45.761
is the only national lesbian organization.

00:12:46.858 --> 00:12:49.347
One of its main aims is
to educate the public

00:12:49.348 --> 00:12:51.181
out of its fear of lesbians.

00:12:52.588 --> 00:12:55.817
- They were planning a
meeting in Rhode Island.

00:12:55.818 --> 00:12:59.751
Well, I was so elated.

00:13:00.868 --> 00:13:04.521
I drove down and I thought
there\'d be a lot of people.

00:13:05.936 --> 00:13:08.241
There were eight women altogether.

00:13:09.688 --> 00:13:13.357
And there was Barbara
Gittings, the lone organizer

00:13:13.358 --> 00:13:15.871
of this tiny band of people.

00:13:17.895 --> 00:13:20.957
And some of the women told
her she should go after me,

00:13:20.958 --> 00:13:23.066
I was a cute little package.

00:13:25.808 --> 00:13:30.277
Well, she turned out
to be my life partner.

00:13:30.278 --> 00:13:33.901
And we were together for 46 years.

00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:39.943
- [Women] 2, 4, 7, 9,
lesbians are mighty fine!

00:13:39.944 --> 00:13:44.323
2, 4, 6, 8, gay is just
as good as straight!

00:13:44.324 --> 00:13:46.130
2, 4, 6, 8...

00:13:46.131 --> 00:13:48.327
- We were just together
every step of the way

00:13:48.328 --> 00:13:50.018
in terms of the movement.

00:13:51.138 --> 00:13:55.407
I did the photography
and she was out there

00:13:55.408 --> 00:13:58.215
very much in the forefront.

00:13:58.216 --> 00:14:00.717
- For a time there, I was
really thinking that one ought

00:14:00.718 --> 00:14:01.957
to try to change.

00:14:01.958 --> 00:14:04.747
That was when I was unhappy, and it made

00:14:04.748 --> 00:14:06.007
an enormous difference

00:14:06.008 --> 00:14:09.237
when I met self-accepting homosexuals.

00:14:09.238 --> 00:14:12.007
- Barbara was a born leader.

00:14:12.008 --> 00:14:15.135
She wasn\'t intimidated by the shrinks

00:14:15.136 --> 00:14:17.223
or Frank Kameny (laughs).

00:14:21.148 --> 00:14:24.287
- Frank was out before people were out.

00:14:24.288 --> 00:14:26.427
He was part of the Mattachine Society,

00:14:26.428 --> 00:14:29.667
which is the grandfather
of gay organizations,

00:14:29.668 --> 00:14:32.671
and, wow, he was a showstopper.

00:14:34.478 --> 00:14:37.477
- [Kay Lahusen] He was just
so goddamn full of himself

00:14:37.478 --> 00:14:39.907
and sure that he was right.

00:14:39.908 --> 00:14:43.741
But he really was the biggest
brain in the movement.

00:14:45.398 --> 00:14:49.127
- I came to Washington in 1956.

00:14:49.128 --> 00:14:53.447
I had my degrees in astronomy,
and was able to get a job

00:14:53.448 --> 00:14:57.404
with the government,
until, one day, they said,

00:14:57.405 --> 00:14:59.997
\"We have information
which leads us to believe

00:14:59.998 --> 00:15:02.137
you are homosexual, do
you have any comment?\"

00:15:02.138 --> 00:15:03.777
I said, \"What\'s the information?\"

00:15:03.778 --> 00:15:05.480
They said, \"We can\'t tell you.\"

00:15:05.481 --> 00:15:07.817
I said, \"Well then, I have no answers.\"

00:15:07.818 --> 00:15:11.477
So I was fired, and that made clear to me

00:15:11.478 --> 00:15:14.727
that there were issues
that had to be fought.

00:15:14.728 --> 00:15:18.117
Every American citizen has
the right to be considered

00:15:18.118 --> 00:15:22.137
by his government, on the basis
of his own personal merit,

00:15:22.138 --> 00:15:23.551
as an individual.

00:15:24.798 --> 00:15:27.917
Eventually, I met Barbara Gittings

00:15:27.918 --> 00:15:31.437
and we initiated picketing and
demonstrating by gay people

00:15:31.438 --> 00:15:33.331
in April of 1965.

00:15:36.428 --> 00:15:39.461
This was a very, very, very tiny group.

00:15:40.336 --> 00:15:43.086
(dramatic music)

00:15:48.368 --> 00:15:52.117
- Nobody was expecting to
see a bunch of homosexuals

00:15:52.118 --> 00:15:55.937
with signs proclaiming, gay is good.

00:15:55.938 --> 00:15:59.212
One woman said, \"Oh, they\'re
all actors.\" (laughs)

00:16:01.998 --> 00:16:03.447
- The people who took part

00:16:03.448 --> 00:16:06.007
in these picket demonstrations were

00:16:06.008 --> 00:16:08.211
a very courageous band of people.

00:16:09.378 --> 00:16:14.177
It took a lot of guts, to
stand up and risk your job,

00:16:14.178 --> 00:16:18.727
your family, knowing that
somebody from a news syndicate

00:16:18.728 --> 00:16:20.437
could put your picture on the front page

00:16:20.438 --> 00:16:22.233
of your hometown newspaper.

00:16:26.598 --> 00:16:30.647
- We were seeking equality,
and it was obvious enough

00:16:30.648 --> 00:16:33.617
that you couldn\'t expect
equality to be granted

00:16:33.618 --> 00:16:37.387
to a bunch of loonies,
which is what the psychiatry

00:16:37.388 --> 00:16:39.831
of that day made of us.

00:16:42.367 --> 00:16:45.147
So I decided to look at the issue.

00:16:45.148 --> 00:16:48.361
And I was absolutely
appalled with what I found.

00:16:49.218 --> 00:16:52.677
Just a lot of shabby, shoddy, sleazy,

00:16:52.678 --> 00:16:55.967
pseudo-science masquerading as science.

00:16:55.968 --> 00:16:57.737
Poor sampling techniques.

00:16:57.738 --> 00:17:01.167
I mean, why would a happy gay
person go to a psychiatrist?

00:17:01.168 --> 00:17:04.731
So all they saw were gay
people who had problems.

00:17:07.188 --> 00:17:12.188
- Nearly all studies on gayness
in the 50 years or so before

00:17:12.588 --> 00:17:15.377
were based on studying not gay people,

00:17:15.378 --> 00:17:18.271
but gay patients or gay prisoners.

00:17:19.138 --> 00:17:22.317
Staggering injustice if
you\'re going to extrapolate

00:17:22.318 --> 00:17:23.468
to what are gay people.

00:17:24.478 --> 00:17:26.600
- It\'s about time that this entire subject

00:17:26.601 --> 00:17:29.367
were taken off the psychoanalyst\'s couch

00:17:29.368 --> 00:17:31.218
and out of the psychiatrist\'s office.

00:17:32.198 --> 00:17:35.437
- Frank was adamant about our getting out

00:17:35.438 --> 00:17:37.561
from under the sickness label.

00:17:38.728 --> 00:17:41.997
And not all activists agreed with him.

00:17:41.998 --> 00:17:44.467
They viewed it as impossible to fight,

00:17:44.468 --> 00:17:48.195
to take on this behemoth called the APA.

00:17:48.196 --> 00:17:49.701
Not Frank.

00:17:51.236 --> 00:17:53.577
- Frank realized that
a lot of psychiatrists

00:17:53.578 --> 00:17:56.457
hadn\'t really given the issue much thought

00:17:56.458 --> 00:17:58.247
in a formal sense.

00:17:58.248 --> 00:18:01.307
Gay people came to them
with various symptoms,

00:18:01.308 --> 00:18:03.604
and the rubric of the day was,

00:18:03.605 --> 00:18:05.997
\"Well, this must be related to the fact

00:18:05.998 --> 00:18:08.337
that you have this
terrible mental disorder

00:18:08.338 --> 00:18:11.727
called homosexuality, and
we\'re gonna work on that.\"

00:18:11.728 --> 00:18:14.537
That opposed a couple of
very important moments

00:18:14.538 --> 00:18:15.698
in the history of psychiatry.

00:18:18.228 --> 00:18:21.477
- Freud was not optimistic
about curing homosexuality.

00:18:21.478 --> 00:18:25.047
In a letter to a mother who
wrote him about her son,

00:18:25.048 --> 00:18:27.191
he gave this account of his own view:

00:18:28.323 --> 00:18:30.507
\"Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage,

00:18:30.508 --> 00:18:33.278
but it is nothing to be ashamed of.

00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:35.857
It cannot be classified as an illness.\"

00:18:35.858 --> 00:18:38.087
- [Richard Pillard] Freud
had a relatively benign view

00:18:38.088 --> 00:18:39.877
of being gay.

00:18:39.878 --> 00:18:44.387
But when he died in
1939, a lot of his pupils

00:18:44.388 --> 00:18:47.001
began to have divergent points of view.

00:18:50.148 --> 00:18:52.747
And they were bold enough
to publish the view

00:18:52.748 --> 00:18:54.927
that Freud was wrong.

00:18:54.928 --> 00:18:57.671
Homosexuality could definitely be cured.

00:18:58.835 --> 00:19:01.831
And that became the status quo until 1948.

00:19:03.281 --> 00:19:07.543
♪ Ooh, ooh, Dr. Kinsey ♪

00:19:07.544 --> 00:19:11.247
♪ Ooh, ooh, Dr. Kinsey ♪

00:19:11.248 --> 00:19:13.557
- [Reporter] The estimate,
given by Dr. Alfred Kinsey,

00:19:13.558 --> 00:19:16.027
18% of all American men have as much

00:19:16.028 --> 00:19:19.567
or more sexual experience
with other men as with women.

00:19:19.568 --> 00:19:23.397
In other words, approximately
15 million men in this country

00:19:23.398 --> 00:19:26.177
have prolonged homosexual histories.

00:19:26.178 --> 00:19:28.029
♪ No wonder Bill was always strange ♪

00:19:28.030 --> 00:19:30.331
♪ And kissed me with such poise ♪

00:19:30.332 --> 00:19:31.787
♪ When I asked him where he\'d been ♪

00:19:31.788 --> 00:19:34.621
♪ He\'d say, \"Oh, out with the boys.\" ♪

00:19:34.622 --> 00:19:37.367
♪ Hey, hey, Dr. Kinsey ♪

00:19:37.368 --> 00:19:40.297
- [Richard Pillard] The
Kinsey Reports showed that

00:19:40.298 --> 00:19:42.447
everybody was doing everything sexual

00:19:42.448 --> 00:19:43.598
that you could imagine,

00:19:44.685 --> 00:19:48.698
and the news of that spread
across the country instantly.

00:19:52.118 --> 00:19:54.118
- He documented that there\'s a spectrum,

00:19:55.168 --> 00:20:00.168
and it went from straight
to bisexual to totally gay,

00:20:00.368 --> 00:20:02.647
and we were all somewhere from zero to six

00:20:02.648 --> 00:20:03.701
on a Kinsey scale.

00:20:04.918 --> 00:20:07.601
Well, the conservative
psychiatrists were horrified.

00:20:14.738 --> 00:20:19.161
- Kinsey was pretty much
discredited by psychiatry.

00:20:20.828 --> 00:20:24.776
At the time, we were a
very conservative society.

00:20:26.378 --> 00:20:30.271
Citizens were expected to
follow a very regimented path.

00:20:32.258 --> 00:20:36.571
You couldn\'t be gay and still be normal.

00:20:45.047 --> 00:20:48.397
- In the \'60s, I was working as

00:20:48.398 --> 00:20:50.961
a fifth-grade teacher in Westchester.

00:20:52.170 --> 00:20:55.791
I absolutely loved it. The kids loved me.

00:20:57.078 --> 00:21:00.647
But no way was I going to
tell anyone that I was gay

00:21:00.648 --> 00:21:04.471
because there was no question,
they would\'ve thrown me out.

00:21:05.337 --> 00:21:07.381
So I had to go to be cured.

00:21:09.368 --> 00:21:14.368
I decided to go see a
psychiatrist three times a week,

00:21:15.368 --> 00:21:17.977
talking about how I should date women

00:21:17.978 --> 00:21:20.187
and go to bed with them.

00:21:20.188 --> 00:21:23.757
- A gradual process of
reconditioning must take place,

00:21:23.758 --> 00:21:25.777
in which you encourage that male

00:21:25.778 --> 00:21:28.827
to have more and more contact
with the right kind of women,

00:21:28.828 --> 00:21:31.337
women that are warm and soft and easy

00:21:31.338 --> 00:21:33.887
and with whom they can
have relaxed relationships,

00:21:33.888 --> 00:21:35.697
which ultimately will lead to some sort

00:21:35.698 --> 00:21:37.598
of physical contact and gratification.

00:21:38.968 --> 00:21:41.957
- The real shame was not that I was gay.

00:21:41.958 --> 00:21:45.407
The real shame was that I went to bed

00:21:45.408 --> 00:21:47.307
with some very nice women who thought

00:21:47.308 --> 00:21:49.867
that there was a future,
and there was no future

00:21:49.868 --> 00:21:51.311
and it was unfair to them.

00:21:52.568 --> 00:21:57.481
I continued to see analysts
for about seven years.

00:21:58.538 --> 00:22:00.587
Nothing changed.

00:22:00.588 --> 00:22:03.701
And so I really started
feeling pretty lost.

00:22:04.737 --> 00:22:08.901
But fortunately, the
tidal wave was coming in.

00:22:10.008 --> 00:22:15.008
♪ I think this must be the
time for the revolution ♪

00:22:16.652 --> 00:22:21.652
♪ I think this must be the
time for the revolution ♪

00:22:23.203 --> 00:22:25.379
♪ I think the time is right ♪

00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:27.651
- I called 1969 the next frontier.

00:22:28.968 --> 00:22:31.457
There was the civil rights movement,

00:22:31.458 --> 00:22:35.171
the women\'s movement, people
fighting against the war.

00:22:36.168 --> 00:22:39.361
And I was involved with
a lot of the protests.

00:22:40.968 --> 00:22:45.968
I wasn\'t married anymore, and
I was raising five children

00:22:46.275 --> 00:22:47.901
as a lesbian mother.

00:22:48.758 --> 00:22:50.324
And then finally, one day
my mother just looked at me

00:22:50.325 --> 00:22:53.347
and she said, \"Oh well, I can\'t beat you,

00:22:53.348 --> 00:22:57.287
I guess I\'ll join you,\" and she hugged me.

00:22:57.288 --> 00:22:58.767
And that was like, I
guess that was kind of

00:22:58.768 --> 00:23:00.976
like our breakthrough because she knew

00:23:00.977 --> 00:23:02.571
I\'m not gonna change.

00:23:03.828 --> 00:23:06.657
Eventually, I became a minister.

00:23:06.658 --> 00:23:09.681
And then I started to get
involved in the gay community.

00:23:10.808 --> 00:23:14.227
By that time, I knew that if
you want to call attention

00:23:14.228 --> 00:23:16.647
to an issue and you wanna make a change,

00:23:16.648 --> 00:23:18.301
you gonna take it to the streets.

00:23:19.418 --> 00:23:22.168
(dramatic music)

00:23:23.148 --> 00:23:27.777
Stonewall was a gay bar and in those days,

00:23:27.778 --> 00:23:29.317
it was just a known fact that the cops

00:23:29.318 --> 00:23:30.667
could just come and raid the bars

00:23:30.668 --> 00:23:32.018
whenever they felt like it.

00:23:34.548 --> 00:23:37.163
But this night, there were so many of us

00:23:37.164 --> 00:23:37.997
that were at the same point.

00:23:37.998 --> 00:23:39.207
You know, enough is enough,

00:23:39.208 --> 00:23:41.683
we\'re not gonna take it anymore, period!

00:23:43.268 --> 00:23:45.334
It was the people against the police.

00:23:46.238 --> 00:23:51.238
Black, white, Puerto Rican,
transgender, drag queens.

00:23:51.508 --> 00:23:54.851
This was not a riot. This was an uprising.

00:24:02.708 --> 00:24:04.981
This went on, right through the weekend.

00:24:09.122 --> 00:24:11.694
And that was when a lot of
gay people started saying,

00:24:11.695 --> 00:24:12.927
\"Yeah, we can do something.

00:24:12.928 --> 00:24:15.672
Yes, we can stand up. Yes we can.\"

00:24:30.326 --> 00:24:31.546
- [Protesters] What\'s
the fight? Gay rights!

00:24:31.547 --> 00:24:34.214
What\'s the solution? Revolution!

00:24:36.028 --> 00:24:37.827
- [Reporter] Through
demonstrations and political

00:24:37.828 --> 00:24:40.727
and educational pressure,
the Gay Liberation Movement

00:24:40.728 --> 00:24:44.701
is challenging a society
that abhors homosexuality.

00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:48.240
- [Protesters] Gay Power!

00:24:48.241 --> 00:24:49.397
Gay Power!

00:24:49.398 --> 00:24:53.767
- Very suddenly, the
movement became bigger.

00:24:53.768 --> 00:24:56.517
We had some of what
you\'d call Young Turks.

00:24:56.518 --> 00:25:01.421
They started organizing different
groups, helping the cause.

00:25:05.998 --> 00:25:08.457
- Nearly everyone who was
involved had been active

00:25:08.458 --> 00:25:10.867
in civil rights or anti-war movement

00:25:10.868 --> 00:25:12.427
or the women\'s movement.

00:25:12.428 --> 00:25:16.127
So, we were all experienced
street activists.

00:25:16.128 --> 00:25:17.967
- Gay people have the
same right to protections

00:25:17.968 --> 00:25:21.077
as a minority, as any other
minority in this city!

00:25:21.078 --> 00:25:23.117
- I don\'t want you in my schools!

00:25:23.118 --> 00:25:24.898
I don\'t want you in my home!

00:25:26.019 --> 00:25:28.756
- We learned that you have
to have righteous anger.

00:25:28.757 --> 00:25:32.021
It\'s essential to get what you want.

00:25:33.228 --> 00:25:37.351
- We were on fire. Something
was unleashed in us.

00:25:38.288 --> 00:25:41.327
It was no longer acceptance.
It was self-acceptance.

00:25:41.328 --> 00:25:44.251
And in that difference
comes the revolution.

00:25:46.398 --> 00:25:48.651
- We had to rise above our differences.

00:25:49.778 --> 00:25:51.657
I was always saying, you know, \"Look,

00:25:51.658 --> 00:25:53.577
you\'re having a tough time
over here \'cause you\'re gay,

00:25:53.578 --> 00:25:55.131
we\'re having a tough time over here

00:25:55.132 --> 00:25:56.332
\'cause we\'re Black and gay.\"

00:25:58.542 --> 00:26:00.687
- [Protesters] What\'s
the fight? Gay rights!

00:26:00.688 --> 00:26:02.829
- But we learned to stand up

00:26:02.830 --> 00:26:04.151
and fight together.

00:26:05.318 --> 00:26:08.797
And to see so many
people get courage enough

00:26:08.798 --> 00:26:13.061
to come out of the closet,
that was like, amazing.

00:26:30.709 --> 00:26:33.847
- One day, I read in The Village Voice

00:26:33.848 --> 00:26:36.737
that the Gay Activists Alliance had dances

00:26:36.738 --> 00:26:39.581
at the Firehouse on Wooster Street.

00:26:40.708 --> 00:26:44.097
Absolutely terrified, I drove down

00:26:44.098 --> 00:26:47.371
and there was this long line of people.

00:26:49.278 --> 00:26:52.166
Okay, so I went in.

00:26:53.058 --> 00:26:54.881
It was absolutely wonderful.

00:26:56.382 --> 00:26:58.882
(funky music)

00:27:08.388 --> 00:27:11.421
Everybody was having a good
time and laughing and joking.

00:27:13.758 --> 00:27:18.758
I realized, you know, there
isn\'t anything wrong with them,

00:27:20.278 --> 00:27:22.328
so there can\'t be anything wrong with me.

00:27:24.138 --> 00:27:26.441
And my world changed.

00:27:29.288 --> 00:27:31.596
I dropped my analyst,

00:27:32.588 --> 00:27:35.504
identified with the Gay Movement,

00:27:36.348 --> 00:27:39.191
and started fighting for our rights.

00:27:41.738 --> 00:27:43.177
I saw that there was

00:27:43.178 --> 00:27:46.857
this growing rebellion against psychiatry.

00:27:46.858 --> 00:27:50.388
There was a lot of resentment and fury

00:27:51.473 --> 00:27:54.261
about having to suffer that way.

00:27:55.658 --> 00:28:00.654
And Gay Liberation wanted
to remove homosexuality

00:28:00.655 --> 00:28:03.371
from The Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual.

00:28:05.028 --> 00:28:08.007
- We knew nothing would
ever change as long

00:28:08.008 --> 00:28:11.131
as we were burdened
with the sickness label.

00:28:12.178 --> 00:28:15.741
We had to go up against
psychiatry and fight.

00:28:17.058 --> 00:28:19.435
- There were many people that said,

00:28:19.436 --> 00:28:21.586
\"You\'re crazy, what
you\'re trying to do here.

00:28:21.587 --> 00:28:22.637
It\'ll never succeed.\"

00:28:30.928 --> 00:28:32.657
- In the spring of 1970, we became aware

00:28:32.658 --> 00:28:35.277
that the APA was going
to have their convention

00:28:35.278 --> 00:28:38.137
in San Francisco, and we just realized

00:28:38.138 --> 00:28:40.681
that that would be too good
of an opportunity to pass up.

00:28:43.028 --> 00:28:45.147
The psychiatric establishment
looked pretty formidable,

00:28:45.148 --> 00:28:49.067
but we wanted to plan our
own life in our own way

00:28:49.068 --> 00:28:51.591
and do what we had to do
in order to achieve that.

00:28:53.488 --> 00:28:56.941
The event was held at the
San Francisco Civic Center.

00:28:58.428 --> 00:29:01.437
Someone from the inside
got us press passes,

00:29:01.438 --> 00:29:03.888
and we were able to get
in the door quite easily.

00:29:07.568 --> 00:29:10.191
The APA convention was very intimidating.

00:29:11.568 --> 00:29:14.271
There were more than 10,000 psychiatrists.

00:29:17.728 --> 00:29:20.847
We went through the program
and there were two panels

00:29:20.848 --> 00:29:23.577
that caught our attention.

00:29:23.578 --> 00:29:25.667
The first was Dr. Bieber,

00:29:25.668 --> 00:29:28.851
who was a notoriously
homophobic psychiatrist.

00:29:30.178 --> 00:29:32.137
We just let him proceed with his lecture.

00:29:32.138 --> 00:29:33.807
At a certain point, we started getting up

00:29:33.808 --> 00:29:36.777
and shouting at him,
telling him he was barbaric,

00:29:36.778 --> 00:29:38.727
and, you know, he was a motherfucker.

00:29:38.728 --> 00:29:42.471
And I think he was a
little taken aback by that.

00:29:44.270 --> 00:29:47.437
And the other panel was a
presentation about a treatment

00:29:47.438 --> 00:29:49.627
that was becoming more popular,

00:29:49.628 --> 00:29:54.628
aversion therapy, which,
sometimes, was genital shock.

00:29:54.763 --> 00:29:56.680
- [Technician] Testing.

00:29:58.078 --> 00:30:00.617
- For gay men, they would show slides

00:30:00.618 --> 00:30:03.431
of females and they wouldn\'t get a shock.

00:30:06.308 --> 00:30:07.917
And then they\'d show slides of males

00:30:07.918 --> 00:30:09.531
and they would get a shock.

00:30:14.388 --> 00:30:18.167
And that would, presumably,
make them attracted to females

00:30:18.168 --> 00:30:19.471
and averse to males.

00:30:21.588 --> 00:30:24.487
There were people in our
group who had been the victim

00:30:24.488 --> 00:30:25.711
of aversion therapy.

00:30:26.988 --> 00:30:29.307
You rarely get a chance
to confront so directly

00:30:29.308 --> 00:30:30.537
one of your enemies.

00:30:30.538 --> 00:30:31.677
You\'re not gonna confront the president

00:30:31.678 --> 00:30:34.547
or the Pope or the governor, very likely,

00:30:34.548 --> 00:30:36.887
but you get into a room
and there\'s, you know,

00:30:36.888 --> 00:30:39.807
with a psychiatrist and you
get to tell them exactly

00:30:39.808 --> 00:30:42.101
what you think of it,
of course it feels good.

00:30:43.168 --> 00:30:45.977
These are the demands from
the Gay Liberation Movement

00:30:45.978 --> 00:30:47.541
to the APA Convention.

00:30:49.688 --> 00:30:53.607
There is no cure for that
which is not a disease.

00:30:53.608 --> 00:30:56.387
Psychiatrists who promise
cure with lobotomies,

00:30:56.388 --> 00:30:59.411
castration, and brainwashing
techniques are sadistic,

00:31:00.308 --> 00:31:03.191
and the system that supports
them must be abolished.

00:31:07.938 --> 00:31:12.547
- It had an impact, and soon
at psychiatric meetings,

00:31:12.548 --> 00:31:15.724
there were demonstrations,
if not, in fact, riots.

00:31:20.038 --> 00:31:23.041
- In every major city, something happened.

00:31:24.408 --> 00:31:27.711
In Chicago, in Atlanta,
in New York, in Boston.

00:31:30.439 --> 00:31:32.987
- At one convention, I
was with Barbara Gittings

00:31:32.988 --> 00:31:36.977
and our people all came in and proceeded

00:31:36.978 --> 00:31:41.978
to invade the ordination of
all the new psychiatrists.

00:31:42.108 --> 00:31:45.557
Well, there was a group
of elderly psychiatrists

00:31:45.558 --> 00:31:49.397
and they were wearing honorary
gold medals and ribbons.

00:31:49.398 --> 00:31:52.507
And they proceeded to
attack the invaders, and

00:31:52.508 --> 00:31:56.577
beat them over the head with
their gold medals, literally!

00:31:56.578 --> 00:31:59.161
And chased them all back out the door.

00:32:00.318 --> 00:32:01.967
The whole thing was gonna fade away

00:32:01.968 --> 00:32:03.927
if something wasn\'t done.

00:32:03.928 --> 00:32:07.267
So I marched up, climbed
up on the platform,

00:32:07.268 --> 00:32:09.221
and I proceeded to denounce them.

00:32:10.554 --> 00:32:13.754
While they shook their fists
at me and called me a Nazi.

00:32:13.755 --> 00:32:18.517
And I said, I\'m a scientist
by training and background

00:32:18.518 --> 00:32:20.987
and if they felt it was a
disturbance or a disorder

00:32:20.988 --> 00:32:23.027
or a pathology, fine,

00:32:23.028 --> 00:32:25.387
let them present their good, sound,

00:32:25.388 --> 00:32:29.525
solid scientific evidence to
show it, and they never did.

00:32:32.848 --> 00:32:34.427
- The demonstrations shocked

00:32:34.428 --> 00:32:37.637
the American Psychiatric
Association enormously,

00:32:37.638 --> 00:32:40.421
and organized psychiatry
was scuttling for safety.

00:32:41.718 --> 00:32:44.367
They didn\'t realize, well, to some people,

00:32:44.368 --> 00:32:47.457
this is a matter of serious,

00:32:47.458 --> 00:32:49.291
a serious concern in their lives.

00:32:53.838 --> 00:32:56.177
- When Gay Liberation came along,

00:32:56.178 --> 00:33:00.097
I was a doctoral student at UCLA,

00:33:00.098 --> 00:33:03.427
and there was some sense that something

00:33:03.428 --> 00:33:05.507
was gonna change for me.

00:33:05.508 --> 00:33:10.107
There was a line in a poem I
once read that stuck with me,

00:33:10.108 --> 00:33:11.694
where the poet said,

00:33:11.695 --> 00:33:16.695
\"I turned my gaze for a
minute, and it became my life.\"

00:33:16.698 --> 00:33:21.031
And I had that sense that
that\'s what was happening.

00:33:41.748 --> 00:33:45.437
In October of 1970, this
big conference was happening

00:33:45.438 --> 00:33:47.067
in Los Angeles.

00:33:47.068 --> 00:33:49.787
I got up and walked up
to the front of the room,

00:33:49.788 --> 00:33:53.121
to the stage, and I took the microphone.

00:33:56.248 --> 00:33:57.731
The doctor takes it back.

00:33:58.633 --> 00:34:01.567
What they didn\'t expect was
me to grab that from him

00:34:01.568 --> 00:34:04.318
and we were gonna talk, not them.

00:34:17.583 --> 00:34:21.750
(voices talking over one another)

00:34:30.618 --> 00:34:35.615
- When this began, the LAPD
was notified and the SWAT team

00:34:35.616 --> 00:34:38.977
was mobilized directly across the street.

00:34:38.978 --> 00:34:42.657
So we were inches away from
being arrested that day.

00:34:42.658 --> 00:34:46.117
One person said, \"It\'s like
you had balls of steel.\"

00:34:46.118 --> 00:34:47.168
I said, \"No, no, no.\"

00:34:48.060 --> 00:34:50.697
We were afraid, we were scared.

00:34:50.698 --> 00:34:52.064
It was something we needed to do.

00:35:15.918 --> 00:35:19.717
About a third of them left in
anger and who were remaining,

00:35:19.718 --> 00:35:22.857
we explained we would break
down into small groups,

00:35:22.858 --> 00:35:26.378
because they had never sat down
and talked with gay people,

00:35:26.379 --> 00:35:29.885
where the shrinkologists
weren\'t in charge.

00:35:29.886 --> 00:35:32.334
Gay and lesbian people were saying,

00:35:32.335 --> 00:35:35.827
\"We are the experts on our
lives, and we will tell you

00:35:35.828 --> 00:35:37.225
what it\'s like being gay.\"

00:35:38.638 --> 00:35:41.687
And the shrinkologists were
listening to these gay people.

00:35:41.688 --> 00:35:44.177
There was true dialogue taking place.

00:35:44.178 --> 00:35:46.207
For the first time in history,

00:35:46.208 --> 00:35:49.037
gay people are beginning
to define themselves.

00:35:49.038 --> 00:35:52.107
No longer are we allowing
the mental health industry

00:35:52.108 --> 00:35:55.740
to define who we are,
we\'re doing it ourselves.

00:35:55.741 --> 00:36:00.387
That is what slowly rippled
out to the rest of the country

00:36:00.388 --> 00:36:02.097
and the rest of that profession.

00:36:02.098 --> 00:36:04.493
It was working, it was working.

00:36:04.494 --> 00:36:07.247
(upbeat music)

00:36:07.248 --> 00:36:09.717
- [Reporter] Through the avenues
of protest, confrontation,

00:36:09.718 --> 00:36:12.897
and dialogue, gay
activists have had success

00:36:12.898 --> 00:36:15.917
in persuading some
well-respected psychiatrists

00:36:15.918 --> 00:36:19.997
to reevaluate their thinking
in relation to homosexuality.

00:36:19.998 --> 00:36:24.917
- What I insist is that
homosexuality, in and of itself,

00:36:24.918 --> 00:36:27.917
does not constitute a mental disorder.

00:36:27.918 --> 00:36:30.327
- There hasn\'t been
any question in my mind

00:36:30.328 --> 00:36:35.328
that we have had repressive,
punitive attitudes

00:36:36.478 --> 00:36:40.893
that have brought to
the lives of many people

00:36:40.894 --> 00:36:42.718
grave misery.

00:36:43.738 --> 00:36:46.021
- [Announcer] Dr. Richard Green.

00:36:46.022 --> 00:36:49.189
(audience applauding)

00:36:50.518 --> 00:36:54.007
- I don\'t believe that
psychiatry should come through

00:36:54.008 --> 00:36:58.287
to individuals in a moral,
judgmental, or religious way.

00:36:58.288 --> 00:37:02.087
I decided that there really
ought to be a paper published

00:37:02.088 --> 00:37:06.457
in the psychiatric literature
questioning the logic,

00:37:06.458 --> 00:37:09.121
the conclusions that
homosexuality was a disorder.

00:37:10.548 --> 00:37:14.217
I sent it to my mentor,
and he advised me strongly

00:37:14.218 --> 00:37:15.807
not to publish this.

00:37:15.808 --> 00:37:17.858
Put it into a drawer and forget about it.

00:37:18.848 --> 00:37:20.771
Well, father doesn\'t always know best.

00:37:21.658 --> 00:37:23.017
I thought that the fact

00:37:23.018 --> 00:37:25.237
that I was a heterosexual psychiatrist,

00:37:25.238 --> 00:37:28.707
and also part of the
psychiatric establishment

00:37:28.708 --> 00:37:31.711
made it a more powerful argument
that had to be listened to.

00:37:33.398 --> 00:37:35.937
So I published this paper and I said,

00:37:35.938 --> 00:37:39.067
\"What I question in this
essay is the given state

00:37:39.068 --> 00:37:42.747
of \'knowledge\' that
homosexuality is by definition

00:37:42.748 --> 00:37:46.702
a \'disorder, \' \'disease\' or an \'illness.\'

00:37:47.928 --> 00:37:50.547
I\'m not convinced we have the data

00:37:50.548 --> 00:37:52.957
by which to base these judgments.

00:37:52.958 --> 00:37:55.431
I question them because
they\'re not proved.\"

00:37:56.288 --> 00:37:58.037
That didn\'t go down too well.

00:37:58.038 --> 00:38:01.287
- We are interested in helping
the individual homosexual.

00:38:01.288 --> 00:38:04.997
The despair you create, sir,
in burying the homosexual

00:38:04.998 --> 00:38:07.757
and taking him out of the realm
of medicine and psychiatry,

00:38:07.758 --> 00:38:09.117
I would say is much worse.

00:38:09.118 --> 00:38:10.127
I am for civil rights.

00:38:10.128 --> 00:38:11.987
I was the first psychiatrist...

00:38:11.988 --> 00:38:15.307
- Charles Socarides became
the most vigorous proponent

00:38:15.308 --> 00:38:18.727
of homosexuality as an illness
that\'s treatable and curable.

00:38:18.728 --> 00:38:22.187
And he would say often that
he\'s for civil liberties

00:38:22.188 --> 00:38:24.937
and equal protection of
people who are homosexual,

00:38:24.938 --> 00:38:26.357
but the fact of the matter is,

00:38:26.358 --> 00:38:29.997
his own writings were precisely
the arguments used by people

00:38:29.998 --> 00:38:33.131
who wanted to deny
homosexuals equal protection.

00:38:34.858 --> 00:38:38.540
- Charles Socarides had a
very thriving private practice

00:38:38.541 --> 00:38:42.411
treating gay people and
offering them the cure.

00:38:43.248 --> 00:38:44.854
His first book on the subject was called,

00:38:44.855 --> 00:38:46.001
\"The Overt Homosexual,\"

00:38:46.858 --> 00:38:48.908
and it was dedicated to me and my sister.

00:38:50.908 --> 00:38:52.358
Charles Socarides was my dad.

00:38:56.418 --> 00:38:58.637
He could be quite empathetic,

00:38:58.638 --> 00:39:02.537
which probably served
him well as a therapist.

00:39:02.538 --> 00:39:05.163
In my childhood and my adolescence,

00:39:05.164 --> 00:39:07.871
I was much more emotionally
connected to him.

00:39:09.678 --> 00:39:13.517
When I was six or seven,
my parents were divorced.

00:39:13.518 --> 00:39:16.427
And at around the time I was 13,

00:39:16.428 --> 00:39:19.281
I moved out of my mother\'s
and moved in with my dad.

00:39:20.748 --> 00:39:25.287
We lived in a townhouse on East
78th Street and his office,

00:39:25.288 --> 00:39:28.027
where he saw patients,
was in the downstairs

00:39:28.028 --> 00:39:30.171
and my bedroom was on the top floor.

00:39:31.998 --> 00:39:34.707
When he was three flights
below seeing a patient

00:39:34.708 --> 00:39:37.997
and, you know, attempting
a cure for homosexuality,

00:39:37.998 --> 00:39:41.071
you know, I was upstairs
being a young homosexual,

00:39:41.958 --> 00:39:45.107
experimenting along the way
as high school students do

00:39:45.108 --> 00:39:48.247
with early sexual experiences.

00:39:48.248 --> 00:39:51.137
And it never occurred to
me that this was something

00:39:51.138 --> 00:39:54.001
you could alter or change, it just was.

00:39:55.228 --> 00:39:59.691
And there were signs along
the way that he was on to me.

00:40:00.878 --> 00:40:04.567
I was very careful and quiet about it.

00:40:04.568 --> 00:40:08.867
I felt that if my
homosexuality became public,

00:40:08.868 --> 00:40:12.177
it could be embarrassing to him
and it could bring unwanted,

00:40:12.178 --> 00:40:13.327
you know, notoriety to me.

00:40:13.328 --> 00:40:16.301
I mean, I was as much afraid
for him as I was for myself.

00:40:18.799 --> 00:40:19.638
- The homosexual is suffering

00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:22.951
from a severe emotional
condition which can be altered,

00:40:24.668 --> 00:40:26.167
and I\'ve suggested to the government

00:40:26.168 --> 00:40:29.477
that a national center for
sexual rehabilitation be started,

00:40:29.478 --> 00:40:32.327
in which a great deal of
research and treatment

00:40:32.328 --> 00:40:34.081
and training must be done.

00:40:45.278 --> 00:40:47.657
- Activism lit the spark.

00:40:47.658 --> 00:40:50.637
But it was clear that a huge majority

00:40:50.638 --> 00:40:53.197
of the American Psychiatric Association

00:40:53.198 --> 00:40:55.806
still agreed with Socarides.

00:40:57.568 --> 00:40:59.517
Somebody, somewhere had to start

00:40:59.518 --> 00:41:01.747
within the American
Psychiatric Association

00:41:01.748 --> 00:41:05.667
to advance the idea that
being gay or lesbian

00:41:05.668 --> 00:41:08.147
should be taken off the terminology

00:41:08.148 --> 00:41:10.098
and not be considered a mental illness.

00:41:11.068 --> 00:41:15.767
- We formed an unofficial
group of sort of Young Turks,

00:41:15.768 --> 00:41:18.821
who decided we will try
to help reform the APA.

00:41:20.598 --> 00:41:22.587
This was a very small
number of psychiatrists

00:41:22.588 --> 00:41:24.507
from around the country,

00:41:24.508 --> 00:41:26.791
who were mostly very young and unknown.

00:41:27.908 --> 00:41:29.847
Our first priority was to make some allies

00:41:29.848 --> 00:41:32.137
who were senior, smart, recognized.

00:41:32.138 --> 00:41:34.331
And we did that very quickly.

00:41:35.493 --> 00:41:37.197
And then we started
figuring out how to get some

00:41:37.198 --> 00:41:40.647
of those people elected
to the board of trustees,

00:41:40.648 --> 00:41:43.727
which had the ultimate power in the APA.

00:41:43.728 --> 00:41:46.641
And that was essential to
getting anything changed.

00:41:51.888 --> 00:41:54.867
- Less than a decade ago,
a national poll showed

00:41:54.868 --> 00:41:57.347
that two thirds of the American people

00:41:57.348 --> 00:42:00.177
feared and hated homosexuals.

00:42:00.178 --> 00:42:04.197
But now, if the success of
books, magazines, and movies

00:42:04.198 --> 00:42:07.217
about homosexuals is any indication,

00:42:07.218 --> 00:42:09.141
that attitude is changing.

00:42:10.138 --> 00:42:14.559
- His pal Roger is as queer
as a $4 bill and he knows it.

00:42:14.560 --> 00:42:16.487
- We all know Roger and
we all know he\'s straight.

00:42:16.488 --> 00:42:19.249
And even if he wasn\'t, what
difference would that make?

00:42:19.250 --> 00:42:21.833
(upbeat music)

00:42:24.575 --> 00:42:27.597
- Do you know what the
word \"homosexual\" means?

00:42:27.598 --> 00:42:30.357
They say it\'s a sickness
that has to be cured.

00:42:30.358 --> 00:42:31.947
- I don\'t wanna talk about it.

00:42:31.948 --> 00:42:33.767
- Damn it, look at me!

00:42:33.768 --> 00:42:37.331
Does that change me so
much? I\'m still your father.

00:42:38.458 --> 00:42:41.387
- Ben and I aren\'t getting
married. He\'s not my type.

00:42:41.388 --> 00:42:43.737
- He\'s not your type?

00:42:43.738 --> 00:42:47.477
He\'s witty, he\'s
attractive, he\'s successful.

00:42:47.478 --> 00:42:48.903
- He\'s gay.

00:42:48.904 --> 00:42:50.328
(audience laughing)

00:42:51.878 --> 00:42:56.271
- By being so open about it,
by the media publicizing it,

00:42:57.868 --> 00:43:02.868
it helped to bring a fresh
breeze into the movement

00:43:03.035 --> 00:43:06.452
and to people, so that
they could talk about it.

00:43:08.420 --> 00:43:11.767
- Good evening and welcome.
My name is David Susskind.

00:43:11.768 --> 00:43:14.157
Tonight, our subject is homosexuality.

00:43:14.158 --> 00:43:16.557
Is it a sickness or a preferred lifestyle?

00:43:16.558 --> 00:43:17.558
- Oh, David.

00:43:19.207 --> 00:43:21.437
- Because it\'s one of
those human illnesses

00:43:21.438 --> 00:43:24.729
that I don\'t choose to educate
my children too deeply about.

00:43:24.730 --> 00:43:26.957
- David, why do you have
such a vested interest

00:43:26.958 --> 00:43:30.537
in trying to channel people, narrow down,

00:43:30.538 --> 00:43:33.217
to program them for this one
thing, this one way of life?

00:43:33.218 --> 00:43:35.042
- [Panel Member] To conform.

00:43:35.043 --> 00:43:38.857
- I\'ve told you why several
times and the audience hoots

00:43:38.858 --> 00:43:41.887
and howls and you refute it and deny it,

00:43:41.888 --> 00:43:43.797
and that has to do with the
body of medical evidence

00:43:43.798 --> 00:43:47.248
that suggests that it
is a mental aberration.

00:43:47.249 --> 00:43:48.687
- Isn\'t it possible that
the body of medical evidence

00:43:48.688 --> 00:43:50.807
could not have made a mistake?

00:43:50.808 --> 00:43:51.961
- It is possible, yes.

00:43:53.047 --> 00:43:56.041
- It\'s not only possible,
I\'m almost sure of it.

00:43:57.336 --> 00:43:59.657
You see, that was always
where I was coming from.

00:43:59.658 --> 00:44:03.351
I\'m not gonna allow you to
dictate to me about who I am.

00:44:04.418 --> 00:44:05.441
I know who I am.

00:44:06.694 --> 00:44:07.638
- You know, as a moderator on the show,

00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:09.897
you have a great responsibility
to your audience,

00:44:09.898 --> 00:44:12.437
and I really don\'t think
you\'re fulfilling that at all.

00:44:12.438 --> 00:44:14.177
- [David Susskind] Given a
choice, you\'d be the way you are?

00:44:14.178 --> 00:44:16.747
- Why should a lesbian make it with a man

00:44:16.748 --> 00:44:19.415
when there are all these
lovely women in the world?

00:44:21.705 --> 00:44:23.577
- Let me make another
point, about this body

00:44:23.578 --> 00:44:26.180
of psychiatric literature
that you\'re so devoted to.

00:44:26.181 --> 00:44:31.127
(audience laughing and applauding)

00:44:31.128 --> 00:44:33.867
- It\'s a very rare occasion
when I defend psychiatry.

00:44:33.868 --> 00:44:35.032
This is one of them.

00:44:35.033 --> 00:44:36.176
- Yeah, maybe it makes you feel good

00:44:36.177 --> 00:44:37.777
to be able to say that we are sick.

00:44:37.778 --> 00:44:38.678
Does it make you feel good?

00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:39.817
- [Panel Member] It\'s important for our-

00:44:39.818 --> 00:44:40.887
- Of course not, Reverend Kennedy.

00:44:40.888 --> 00:44:43.347
- And I say that the body of
knowledge which claims sickness

00:44:43.348 --> 00:44:45.356
for homosexuality has to be challenged.

00:44:45.357 --> 00:44:47.257
(audience applauding)

00:44:51.598 --> 00:44:56.598
- At that point in time, we
started pressing for meetings

00:44:56.828 --> 00:44:59.817
and public forums where we could challenge

00:44:59.818 --> 00:45:01.451
the sickness label.

00:45:02.358 --> 00:45:06.207
Some well-regarded psychiatrists started

00:45:06.208 --> 00:45:10.995
to go to bat for us, so
the APA finally agreed.

00:45:12.208 --> 00:45:15.077
They gave us a really good platform

00:45:15.078 --> 00:45:18.117
at their annual meeting in Dallas.

00:45:18.118 --> 00:45:21.397
There would be two psychiatrists,

00:45:21.398 --> 00:45:24.591
and they invited Frank
Kameny and Barbara Gittings.

00:45:25.848 --> 00:45:28.607
Well, when I heard about
the plans for this,

00:45:28.608 --> 00:45:32.607
I said, \"Well, you know,
what you need is one person

00:45:32.608 --> 00:45:36.035
who is both a psychiatrist and gay.\"

00:45:38.138 --> 00:45:40.897
- Well, it wasn\'t very easy in 1972

00:45:40.898 --> 00:45:44.667
to find a gay psychiatrist
who would come out openly,

00:45:44.668 --> 00:45:47.341
knowing what the risks were to a career.

00:45:48.268 --> 00:45:51.867
- Barbara contacted 10 or 12 psychiatrists

00:45:51.868 --> 00:45:54.747
who were in this secret society

00:45:54.748 --> 00:45:58.131
of gay psychiatrists called the GayPA.

00:45:59.948 --> 00:46:02.337
- I got a call from Barbara Gittings.

00:46:02.338 --> 00:46:05.527
She said, \"John, I\'m
looking for a psychiatrist

00:46:05.528 --> 00:46:08.685
to testify what it is like
to be a gay psychiatrist.\"

00:46:10.109 --> 00:46:12.377
My first reaction was, \"No way!\"

00:46:12.378 --> 00:46:16.271
- He said, \"I will lose my
job, my medical license.

00:46:16.272 --> 00:46:18.627
There\'s still a lot of homophobia

00:46:18.628 --> 00:46:22.265
in the American Psychiatric Association.\"

00:46:22.266 --> 00:46:25.349
(instrumental music)

00:46:41.278 --> 00:46:44.211
John was a very dear friend for 25 years.

00:46:46.078 --> 00:46:51.078
After he died, we were
able to save 217 boxes

00:46:52.258 --> 00:46:56.597
full of his teaching
materials, personal letters,

00:46:56.598 --> 00:46:59.241
and his 50 years\' worth of journals.

00:47:05.008 --> 00:47:06.758
That\'s a good one of John\'s family.

00:47:14.738 --> 00:47:17.851
John always called himself
a farm boy from Kentucky.

00:47:20.108 --> 00:47:21.711
But he was quite a prodigy.

00:47:23.698 --> 00:47:26.811
He went to college at 15.

00:47:28.088 --> 00:47:32.307
That\'s when he decided he
wanted to be a psychiatrist,

00:47:32.308 --> 00:47:34.513
so he could help people.

00:47:37.718 --> 00:47:42.607
John came to Philadelphia
in 1964 to start a residency

00:47:42.608 --> 00:47:44.837
at the University of Pennsylvania.

00:47:44.838 --> 00:47:48.207
He ran into terrible homophobia there

00:47:48.208 --> 00:47:50.541
and he got fired for being gay.

00:47:53.438 --> 00:47:56.471
It took a lot for him
to be quiet about it.

00:47:57.878 --> 00:48:02.878
He wanted to help with the
1972 meeting in Dallas,

00:48:03.578 --> 00:48:05.298
but had to protect himself.

00:48:07.208 --> 00:48:09.017
- He said, \"I\'ll do it
only on the condition

00:48:09.018 --> 00:48:11.417
that I can wear a wig and a mask

00:48:11.418 --> 00:48:13.565
and use a voice-distorting microphone.\"

00:48:18.053 --> 00:48:21.334
- Barbara and I told this
to Frank, and he said,

00:48:21.335 --> 00:48:25.127
\"Oh, that\'s terrible, that
goes against everything

00:48:25.128 --> 00:48:30.128
we have been fighting for,
to have somebody in a mask!\"

00:48:30.328 --> 00:48:35.071
So we had a big fight over
that, but we did prevail.

00:48:35.988 --> 00:48:39.737
And Dr. John Fryer became Dr. H.

00:48:39.738 --> 00:48:42.687
Homosexual Anonymous.

00:48:42.688 --> 00:48:45.438
(dramatic music)

00:48:51.778 --> 00:48:54.581
When we got there, it was packed.

00:48:56.148 --> 00:48:58.164
Our panel was called

00:48:58.165 --> 00:49:01.565
\"Psychiatry, Friend or Foe? A Dialogue.\"

00:49:02.448 --> 00:49:05.961
Barbara brought out Dr. H. Anonymous.

00:49:07.448 --> 00:49:10.447
I started to take pictures.

00:49:10.448 --> 00:49:12.847
And I could hardly believe it,

00:49:12.848 --> 00:49:16.061
I could have fallen off my chair!

00:49:17.686 --> 00:49:19.917
We thought he would have
on a nice little mask,

00:49:19.918 --> 00:49:22.167
like the Lone Ranger.

00:49:22.168 --> 00:49:26.033
No, he was in this grotesque, big mask,

00:49:26.034 --> 00:49:28.727
a big wig on.

00:49:28.728 --> 00:49:31.991
It looked more like
Halloween than anything else.

00:49:33.738 --> 00:49:38.091
We were all very concerned
about how this would go over.

00:49:44.261 --> 00:49:46.811
- [Harry Adamson] I thought
this tape was lost to history.

00:49:50.928 --> 00:49:54.951
- [Dr. John Fryer] I am a
homosexual. I am a psychiatrist.

00:49:56.078 --> 00:50:00.667
It is time that real
flesh and blood stand up

00:50:00.668 --> 00:50:04.217
before this organization and ask

00:50:04.218 --> 00:50:06.791
to be listened to and understood.

00:50:08.498 --> 00:50:13.498
I am in disguise tonight in
order that I might speak freely.

00:50:14.148 --> 00:50:17.427
What is it like to be a homosexual

00:50:17.428 --> 00:50:19.171
who is also a psychiatrist?

00:50:20.710 --> 00:50:23.477
Many of us work 20 hours
daily to protect institutions

00:50:23.478 --> 00:50:25.997
who would literally chew
us up and spit us out

00:50:25.998 --> 00:50:27.291
if they knew the truth.

00:50:28.458 --> 00:50:30.671
All of us have something to lose.

00:50:31.948 --> 00:50:34.831
We may not be under
consideration for professorship.

00:50:35.958 --> 00:50:39.097
Our supervisor may ask us
to take a leave of absence

00:50:39.098 --> 00:50:40.098
or fire us.

00:50:41.728 --> 00:50:43.227
We\'re taking an even bigger risk, however,

00:50:43.228 --> 00:50:45.145
in not living fully our humanity,

00:50:46.688 --> 00:50:48.707
with all the lessons it has to teach

00:50:48.708 --> 00:50:50.671
all the other humans around us.

00:50:53.038 --> 00:50:55.287
This is the greatest loss,

00:50:56.571 --> 00:50:58.846
our honest humanity.

00:51:00.983 --> 00:51:03.257
- He represented all the people

00:51:03.258 --> 00:51:05.983
who were hiding and invisible.

00:51:05.984 --> 00:51:08.434
And it turned out to be
just enormously powerful.

00:51:09.378 --> 00:51:11.989
- It helped people know
that within psychiatry,

00:51:11.990 --> 00:51:13.457
there was injustice.

00:51:13.458 --> 00:51:14.887
Not just we were harming other patients,

00:51:14.888 --> 00:51:16.187
we were harming psychiatrists too

00:51:16.188 --> 00:51:17.657
and the field of psychiatry.

00:51:17.658 --> 00:51:21.477
And did we really want to
eliminate lots of good people

00:51:21.478 --> 00:51:25.081
from the field because
they were gay or bisexual?

00:51:26.558 --> 00:51:29.537
- [Kay Lahusen] It was a
game-changer that really got some

00:51:29.538 --> 00:51:33.111
of the psychiatrists
rethinking their position.

00:51:37.278 --> 00:51:39.811
- John kept a bound journal every year.

00:51:41.228 --> 00:51:43.937
This is the first I\'ve ever seen of any,

00:51:43.938 --> 00:51:46.677
and it is from Dallas.

00:51:46.678 --> 00:51:50.161
This is right after he gave the speech.

00:51:52.425 --> 00:51:54.367
\"The day has passed.

00:51:54.368 --> 00:51:57.351
It has come and gone,
and I am still alive.

00:51:58.468 --> 00:52:02.117
For the first time, I have
identified with a force

00:52:02.118 --> 00:52:04.061
which is akin to my selfhood.

00:52:05.007 --> 00:52:09.917
I am a homosexual, and I am
the only American psychiatrist

00:52:09.918 --> 00:52:14.667
who has stood up on a podium
to let real flesh and blood

00:52:14.668 --> 00:52:16.731
tell the nation it is so.

00:52:17.878 --> 00:52:20.517
Barbara Gittings and Frank Kameny

00:52:20.518 --> 00:52:22.961
have helped us all very much.

00:52:24.158 --> 00:52:26.445
I hope that the effort does not die.\"

00:52:31.078 --> 00:52:32.467
- [Reporter] A growing
number of psychiatrists

00:52:32.468 --> 00:52:34.827
have begun to share the
Gay Liberationist view

00:52:34.828 --> 00:52:38.031
that homosexuality, per
se, is not an illness.

00:52:39.708 --> 00:52:41.737
According to Dr. Robert L. Spitzer,

00:52:41.738 --> 00:52:45.437
the Gay Activists Alliance
recently requested and received

00:52:45.438 --> 00:52:47.217
an opportunity to present their views

00:52:47.218 --> 00:52:49.685
before the APA Nomenclature Committee.

00:52:51.730 --> 00:52:56.037
- I lit up like an incandescent bulb.

00:52:56.038 --> 00:52:58.867
Because I knew that was the committee

00:52:58.868 --> 00:53:02.571
that decided what went in
the DSM and what didn\'t.

00:53:04.660 --> 00:53:07.827
(soft dramatic music)

00:53:14.568 --> 00:53:18.207
- At that time, I was
studying to get a PhD

00:53:18.208 --> 00:53:19.731
in clinical psychology.

00:53:20.678 --> 00:53:24.857
So I was asked to make the
professional presentation

00:53:24.858 --> 00:53:28.911
on both theory and research
about homosexuality.

00:53:31.578 --> 00:53:36.337
- I was on the Nomenclature
Committee, and Dr. Silverstein

00:53:36.338 --> 00:53:41.338
was making the case that we
had overlooked a great deal

00:53:41.548 --> 00:53:45.647
of existing research that contradicted

00:53:45.648 --> 00:53:49.741
the view that homosexuality
was an illness.

00:53:51.798 --> 00:53:54.527
- [Charles Silverstein] One
part was about Evelyn Hooker\'s

00:53:54.528 --> 00:53:58.071
research paper from 1956.

00:53:59.618 --> 00:54:01.767
- Evie Hooker was a psychologist.

00:54:01.768 --> 00:54:05.627
Her research consisted of
giving a series of tests

00:54:05.628 --> 00:54:08.578
to some people who were gay
and some who were heterosexual.

00:54:13.668 --> 00:54:18.027
- I was using, for the
interpretation of those tests,

00:54:18.028 --> 00:54:21.847
the best experts I could
find in the country,

00:54:21.848 --> 00:54:24.687
whose capacity to interpret those tests

00:54:24.688 --> 00:54:26.391
was internationally known.

00:54:27.498 --> 00:54:29.657
- [Richard Pillard] And the
experienced interpreters

00:54:29.658 --> 00:54:31.487
couldn\'t distinguish the gay people

00:54:31.488 --> 00:54:33.017
from the straight people.

00:54:33.018 --> 00:54:35.804
- Which means there\'s no
difference in the pathology

00:54:35.805 --> 00:54:39.327
between the gay man and the straight man.

00:54:39.328 --> 00:54:41.967
- But this was the 1950s.

00:54:41.968 --> 00:54:44.841
Conservatism still dominated the country.

00:54:46.398 --> 00:54:50.177
As with Freud and Kinsey,
psychiatrists from the old guard

00:54:50.178 --> 00:54:51.591
did not want to hear this.

00:54:52.668 --> 00:54:56.417
But by the early \'70s, things changed,

00:54:56.418 --> 00:54:59.941
and new psychiatrists listened
with a more sympathetic ear.

00:55:03.338 --> 00:55:05.407
- The point is not that
times are changing,

00:55:05.408 --> 00:55:06.911
but that times have changed.

00:55:08.418 --> 00:55:11.467
What we are saying is that you must choose

00:55:11.468 --> 00:55:16.467
between the undocumented theories
that have unjustly harmed

00:55:16.468 --> 00:55:18.667
a great number of people

00:55:18.668 --> 00:55:22.551
or the controlled scientific
studies cited here.

00:55:25.526 --> 00:55:29.103
- He really caught the
attention of everybody,

00:55:29.104 --> 00:55:34.104
because you could not dispute
one word of what he said,

00:55:34.898 --> 00:55:39.727
and he had all of the backup material

00:55:39.728 --> 00:55:41.877
that he could show you.

00:55:41.878 --> 00:55:43.391
Look, it\'s right there.

00:55:44.379 --> 00:55:46.791
It was an imposing presentation.

00:55:49.508 --> 00:55:52.741
- And that just kicked up a storm.

00:56:01.098 --> 00:56:03.237
- The pressure within the APA built

00:56:03.238 --> 00:56:05.821
for some reassessment to happen.

00:56:06.688 --> 00:56:09.927
And Bob Spitzer became a crucial person

00:56:09.928 --> 00:56:12.911
in helping the APA debate
the illness question.

00:56:14.228 --> 00:56:18.067
But only in order to determine
what would be the criteria

00:56:18.068 --> 00:56:20.607
by which you would decide whether a person

00:56:20.608 --> 00:56:22.001
is sick or not sick.

00:56:23.488 --> 00:56:26.577
It was clear that he was
in no sense an advocate

00:56:26.578 --> 00:56:29.101
for or against; he just
wanted information.

00:56:32.428 --> 00:56:35.623
- As he got involved with
this, colleagues of his

00:56:35.624 --> 00:56:39.037
started to wonder, up at
the Psychiatric Institute,

00:56:39.038 --> 00:56:40.541
whether or not he was gay.

00:56:41.658 --> 00:56:42.971
That was not the case.

00:56:43.848 --> 00:56:46.067
He just wanted to bring psychiatry

00:56:46.068 --> 00:56:48.691
to a more scientific level.

00:56:51.048 --> 00:56:53.807
- And it was his idea that we should have

00:56:53.808 --> 00:56:57.037
this big panel at the next convention

00:56:57.038 --> 00:57:00.857
where for the first time,
all of the opposing sides

00:57:00.858 --> 00:57:04.207
in this fight were to get a
chance to directly address

00:57:04.208 --> 00:57:08.871
each other and discuss their
positions on homosexuality.

00:57:09.868 --> 00:57:12.457
And I said, \"Great! That\'s a good idea.\"

00:57:12.458 --> 00:57:16.527
Then he says, \"You will
be on the panel as well.\"

00:57:16.528 --> 00:57:17.368
And I said: \"What?\"

00:57:17.369 --> 00:57:21.109
You know, I couldn\'t believe
that it was gonna be,

00:57:21.110 --> 00:57:23.791
that he decided to put me on the panel.

00:57:28.828 --> 00:57:30.518
- [Announcer] Aloha!

00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:34.067
Welcome to Honolulu and
the 126th annual meeting

00:57:34.068 --> 00:57:37.392
of the American Psychiatric Association.

00:57:37.393 --> 00:57:40.143
(dramatic music)

00:57:46.538 --> 00:57:48.944
- A homosexual reported to me,

00:57:48.945 --> 00:57:52.607
\"I\'ve got to get this
homosexual monkey off my back.

00:57:52.608 --> 00:57:55.077
I just frankly can\'t live with it.\"

00:57:55.078 --> 00:57:58.337
That is why some of us treat homosexuals.

00:57:58.338 --> 00:58:00.257
- If our judgment about the mental health

00:58:00.258 --> 00:58:03.877
of heterosexuals were based
only on those whom we see

00:58:03.878 --> 00:58:06.907
in our clinical practices,
we would have to conclude

00:58:06.908 --> 00:58:09.721
that all heterosexuals
are also mentally ill.

00:58:10.628 --> 00:58:13.677
- Homosexuality is not a normal variant

00:58:13.678 --> 00:58:15.097
of sexual functioning.

00:58:15.098 --> 00:58:17.407
I have never seen a male homosexual

00:58:17.408 --> 00:58:20.457
who has an intact sense of masculinity.

00:58:20.458 --> 00:58:22.537
- The worst thing about your diagnosis

00:58:22.538 --> 00:58:24.331
is that gay people believe it.

00:58:25.168 --> 00:58:28.561
Nothing makes you sick like
believing that you\'re sick.

00:58:29.614 --> 00:58:32.850
- Socarides and Bieber argued
vigorously, but Ron Gold,

00:58:32.851 --> 00:58:35.927
I\'ve never forgotten
the title of his paper.

00:58:35.928 --> 00:58:37.437
He got up there and he yelled out,

00:58:37.438 --> 00:58:39.251
- Stop it! You\'re making me sick!

00:58:41.955 --> 00:58:46.397
- He gave a very amusing presentation,

00:58:46.398 --> 00:58:50.347
but it had cold, hard facts.

00:58:50.348 --> 00:58:52.338
He told it like it is.

00:58:56.828 --> 00:58:58.927
- [Ron Gold] The illness
theory of homosexuality

00:58:58.928 --> 00:59:01.927
is a pack of lies
concocted out of the myths

00:59:01.928 --> 00:59:05.571
of a patriarchal society
for a political purpose.

00:59:07.518 --> 00:59:11.631
Psychiatry, dedicated to
making sick people well,

00:59:11.632 --> 00:59:14.847
is the cornerstone of
a system of oppression

00:59:14.848 --> 00:59:17.377
that makes gay people sick.

00:59:17.378 --> 00:59:19.677
And my anger isn\'t turned inward.

00:59:19.678 --> 00:59:23.137
It\'s focused outward toward my oppressors,

00:59:23.138 --> 00:59:26.427
including those of you who
think you have the right

00:59:26.428 --> 00:59:29.147
to decide that perfectly happy people,

00:59:29.148 --> 00:59:31.457
who don\'t do the slightest
harm to themselves

00:59:31.458 --> 00:59:33.571
or anybody else, are sick.

00:59:34.908 --> 00:59:37.527
Take the damning label
of sickness away from us.

00:59:37.528 --> 00:59:39.181
Take us out of your nomenclature!

00:59:42.878 --> 00:59:47.187
When the speech was over, I
didn\'t know what to expect.

00:59:47.188 --> 00:59:49.227
But when a whole lot of them applauded

00:59:49.228 --> 00:59:53.251
and gave me a standing
ovation, I was flabbergasted.

00:59:58.948 --> 01:00:00.717
- Once that had been discussed,

01:00:00.718 --> 01:00:02.817
that also allowed many more psychiatrists

01:00:02.818 --> 01:00:05.137
to say more or less
that was a real debate,

01:00:05.138 --> 01:00:07.647
that was a real forum.

01:00:07.648 --> 01:00:08.917
Major things were said.

01:00:08.918 --> 01:00:12.427
It was talked about in that
tone of voice in Hawaii

01:00:12.428 --> 01:00:14.837
and for the next few months.

01:00:14.838 --> 01:00:17.937
During that time, Richard
Pillard and I knew

01:00:17.938 --> 01:00:21.307
that you would need several
levels of political support

01:00:21.308 --> 01:00:24.117
to agree with scientific facts.

01:00:24.118 --> 01:00:26.657
And so we formulated a resolution

01:00:26.658 --> 01:00:28.037
for the Northern New England Branch

01:00:28.038 --> 01:00:30.507
of the American Psychiatric Association.

01:00:30.508 --> 01:00:33.087
The goals of the revolution
were... resolution. Interesting,

01:00:33.088 --> 01:00:34.817
I slipped and said \"revolution.\"

01:00:34.818 --> 01:00:39.327
The goals of the resolution
were to stop discrimination

01:00:39.328 --> 01:00:42.167
against gay people and
to throw homosexuality

01:00:42.168 --> 01:00:45.047
out as a diagnosis.

01:00:45.048 --> 01:00:47.821
To our surprise, they passed it.

01:00:51.560 --> 01:00:54.145
- To have a whole branch of the country

01:00:54.146 --> 01:00:56.676
be willing to back this
kind of a resolution

01:00:56.677 --> 01:00:59.587
was enormously effective,

01:00:59.588 --> 01:01:02.127
and it worked its way up
through the bureaucracy

01:01:02.128 --> 01:01:04.128
of the American Psychiatric Association.

01:01:05.708 --> 01:01:09.107
- At the same time, in
parallel, we nominated people

01:01:09.108 --> 01:01:11.937
to be presidents of the APA,
several vice presidents,

01:01:11.938 --> 01:01:13.938
several secretaries, several treasurers.

01:01:15.298 --> 01:01:17.537
Some of these people were then elected

01:01:17.538 --> 01:01:19.527
to positions of power.

01:01:19.528 --> 01:01:22.757
And we hoped that with
a more reasonable board,

01:01:22.758 --> 01:01:25.287
we could get the APA to
say, \"Yes, you\'re right.

01:01:25.288 --> 01:01:27.328
We\'re not only wrong but
we\'ve been harming people.\"

01:01:29.085 --> 01:01:30.314
- Gay is good!

01:01:30.315 --> 01:01:32.907
- [Crowd] Gay is good!

01:01:32.908 --> 01:01:34.933
- Gay is proud!

01:01:34.934 --> 01:01:37.038
- [Crowd] Gay is proud!

01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:38.936
- Gay is healthy!

01:01:38.937 --> 01:01:41.777
- [Crowd] Gay is healthy!

01:01:41.778 --> 01:01:44.717
- We are seeing, close to my heart,

01:01:44.718 --> 01:01:49.397
the psychiatrists on the run.
(crowd cheering)

01:01:49.398 --> 01:01:52.631
Keep them running!

01:01:57.778 --> 01:01:59.337
- [Morley Safer] The attack by homosexuals

01:01:59.338 --> 01:02:01.557
against the psychiatric establishment

01:02:01.558 --> 01:02:03.361
is not confined to rhetoric.

01:02:05.108 --> 01:02:07.017
Homosexual therapists have started

01:02:07.018 --> 01:02:08.577
their own counseling centers,

01:02:08.578 --> 01:02:10.841
like the Institute for Human Development.

01:02:11.798 --> 01:02:15.097
Its director, Charles Silverstein,
says his therapy sessions

01:02:15.098 --> 01:02:18.167
are designed to help
homosexuals free themselves

01:02:18.168 --> 01:02:22.677
of the guilt and fear that he
says society and psychiatry

01:02:22.678 --> 01:02:23.881
have imposed on them.

01:02:25.258 --> 01:02:28.081
- Getting on \"60 Minutes\"
was quite a coup.

01:02:29.628 --> 01:02:32.741
It just so happens, the same day

01:02:32.742 --> 01:02:36.627
that \"60 Minutes\" was coming in,

01:02:36.628 --> 01:02:41.628
my mother decided to come up
from Florida and stay with me.

01:02:41.938 --> 01:02:45.507
Well, she came in and being
a proper Jewish mother,

01:02:45.508 --> 01:02:47.677
she wanted to do my laundry.

01:02:47.678 --> 01:02:50.017
I said, \"No, you can\'t do my laundry.

01:02:50.018 --> 01:02:53.297
\'60 Minutes\' is coming here
because they\'re doing this program

01:02:53.298 --> 01:02:56.457
on being homosexual.\"

01:02:56.458 --> 01:03:00.317
So she said, \"Well, why
do they want to film you?\"

01:03:00.318 --> 01:03:03.695
I said, \"Mother, I have to tell
you that I\'m a homosexual.\"

01:03:04.928 --> 01:03:09.928
Well, she got obviously all
upset and right at that moment,

01:03:10.148 --> 01:03:13.337
the door opened and \"60 Minutes\" came in.

01:03:13.338 --> 01:03:18.338
And she was so upset that she
decided to leave my apartment

01:03:18.518 --> 01:03:23.518
and go stay with my brother
at his apartment in Teaneck,

01:03:24.068 --> 01:03:25.951
much to my brother\'s chagrin.

01:03:27.258 --> 01:03:30.467
But she got over this pretty quickly.

01:03:30.468 --> 01:03:34.647
When the episode appeared,
she was sure to tell

01:03:34.648 --> 01:03:38.271
all of her girlfriends in
her condominium in Miami.

01:03:39.218 --> 01:03:42.351
And then became proud
about her son, the doctor.

01:03:43.378 --> 01:03:46.112
Something I\'d like to ask you to do.

01:03:46.113 --> 01:03:48.607
And that is to be able to tell people

01:03:48.608 --> 01:03:51.597
how to deal with their kids who are gay.

01:03:51.598 --> 01:03:55.687
- It seems absurd that at 25
years old, I\'m a grown man,

01:03:55.688 --> 01:03:56.970
that I have to...

01:04:01.908 --> 01:04:04.636
That I have to ask my parents to love me.

01:04:04.637 --> 01:04:06.407
- If you want to call
me a deviant, you can.

01:04:06.408 --> 01:04:09.167
If you want to say I\'m immoral, you can.

01:04:09.168 --> 01:04:11.167
But there\'s a very important difference

01:04:11.168 --> 01:04:14.407
between saying I\'m immoral
and saying I\'m sick.

01:04:14.408 --> 01:04:16.977
- And indeed, a decision
to remove homosexuality

01:04:16.978 --> 01:04:19.417
from this manual could have an effect

01:04:19.418 --> 01:04:21.717
on the very fabric of our present society.

01:04:21.718 --> 01:04:24.947
The majority, perhaps the more
conservative psychiatrists,

01:04:24.948 --> 01:04:26.957
wants it to remain in the manual.

01:04:26.958 --> 01:04:30.387
- The exclusion of this condition

01:04:30.388 --> 01:04:34.047
from our diagnostic nomenclature,
which would be tantamount

01:04:34.048 --> 01:04:35.647
to declaring it natural and normal,

01:04:35.648 --> 01:04:38.757
which is the current
fad, the current rage,

01:04:38.758 --> 01:04:41.887
as a matter of fact, perhaps
the greatest medical hoax,

01:04:41.888 --> 01:04:46.888
if it is perpetrated,
of our last 50 years,

01:04:47.447 --> 01:04:50.341
I think would be disastrous
in many, many ways.

01:04:51.238 --> 01:04:54.037
- So are homosexuals mentally sick?

01:04:54.038 --> 01:04:57.417
Or have they merely chosen
an alternative lifestyle?

01:04:57.418 --> 01:05:00.027
The psychiatric profession
will soon decide.

01:05:00.028 --> 01:05:02.877
A proposal to change the
nomenclature has started its way

01:05:02.878 --> 01:05:05.371
through the American
Psychiatric Association.

01:05:09.908 --> 01:05:12.127
- From the time we
first took our position,

01:05:12.128 --> 01:05:14.797
it took 10 years to get it moving

01:05:14.798 --> 01:05:18.087
over the opposition of traditionalists

01:05:18.088 --> 01:05:21.527
and through the APA governance structure

01:05:21.528 --> 01:05:23.521
of Byzantine complexity.

01:05:26.308 --> 01:05:29.917
- This was one of the most
considered issues in APA history.

01:05:29.918 --> 01:05:32.947
It was considered by councils,
committees, other councils,

01:05:32.948 --> 01:05:35.627
district branch, assembly,
back to district branches,

01:05:35.628 --> 01:05:38.037
back to assembly, and we needed an effort

01:05:38.038 --> 01:05:42.697
where we had to be tolerant
of both politics and science.

01:05:42.698 --> 01:05:47.237
And the psychiatric
organization is not uniquely

01:05:47.238 --> 01:05:50.557
in charge of one experiment
that tells you what truth is.

01:05:50.558 --> 01:05:53.317
It has to adjudicate among
all of what you know,

01:05:53.318 --> 01:05:55.107
among all of what science has been saying,

01:05:55.108 --> 01:05:57.697
among all of what people have
been discovering clinically,

01:05:57.698 --> 01:06:00.767
among all of what people
think and are worried about.

01:06:00.768 --> 01:06:02.968
And the APA was trying to do that.

01:06:02.969 --> 01:06:05.169
The Board of Trustees
was trying to do that.

01:06:11.298 --> 01:06:12.877
- [Charles Silverstein] December 15th,

01:06:12.878 --> 01:06:15.677
the American Psychiatric Association

01:06:15.678 --> 01:06:17.371
held a news conference.

01:06:19.228 --> 01:06:22.221
They were going to
announce the APA decision.

01:06:24.168 --> 01:06:26.147
I, together with a number of other people,

01:06:26.148 --> 01:06:28.051
went to Washington.

01:06:29.308 --> 01:06:31.417
Barbara Gittings was there.

01:06:31.418 --> 01:06:35.306
Frank Kameny and Ron Gold.

01:06:38.997 --> 01:06:43.107
- We were taking questions
from these various people.

01:06:43.108 --> 01:06:45.266
I had butterflies in my stomach,

01:06:45.267 --> 01:06:47.867
\'cause we had worked
very hard to make sure

01:06:47.868 --> 01:06:49.467
it came out good.

01:06:49.468 --> 01:06:50.868
But we didn\'t know it would.

01:06:53.828 --> 01:06:56.881
- We were still in a minority position.

01:06:58.198 --> 01:07:03.190
People would come to us and
say we were on a fool\'s errand,

01:07:03.191 --> 01:07:05.648
that nothing would ever come of this.

01:07:27.768 --> 01:07:29.977
- This was a revolutionary moment

01:07:29.978 --> 01:07:34.467
in which homosexuality, per
se, was not a mental disorder.

01:07:34.468 --> 01:07:36.718
Millions were cured with
the stroke of a pen.

01:07:37.918 --> 01:07:40.971
- We were overwhelmed with joy.

01:07:42.478 --> 01:07:43.408
We couldn\'t believe it.

01:07:43.409 --> 01:07:45.361
I thought we would be fighting forever.

01:07:47.318 --> 01:07:48.741
But then suddenly, boom!

01:07:51.668 --> 01:07:55.257
- Psychoanalysts, especially
Socarides and Bieber,

01:07:55.258 --> 01:07:57.917
thought that this was an
assault on psychoanalysis,

01:07:57.918 --> 01:08:01.541
and they started referendum
by petition to overturn it.

01:08:02.418 --> 01:08:06.097
- And they raised enough signatures

01:08:06.098 --> 01:08:11.098
so that the APA had to poll the members.

01:08:12.578 --> 01:08:15.107
- Well, I thought it was
a mockery of psychiatry

01:08:15.108 --> 01:08:17.197
to put it to a popular vote.

01:08:17.198 --> 01:08:19.067
That\'s not the way you decide something.

01:08:19.068 --> 01:08:21.951
You look at the data,
you look at the evidence,

01:08:21.952 --> 01:08:26.837
you look at its impact,
socially, psychologically,

01:08:26.838 --> 01:08:29.588
and you make your hopefully
learned decisions that way.

01:08:33.790 --> 01:08:37.677
- Socarides\' idea was that most
psychiatrists still believed

01:08:37.678 --> 01:08:39.927
that gay people were sick.

01:08:39.928 --> 01:08:42.997
And, of course, the irony
of his own son being gay

01:08:42.998 --> 01:08:45.198
didn\'t deter Socarides at all.

01:08:47.578 --> 01:08:51.857
- Years later, I finally had to corner him

01:08:51.858 --> 01:08:54.327
into seeing him in his office.

01:08:54.328 --> 01:08:57.177
I just told him, I said, \"Dad,
you know, this is something

01:08:57.178 --> 01:08:59.497
that we have both known for
a long time, but I need to,

01:08:59.498 --> 01:09:02.367
like, actually tell you that I\'m gay,

01:09:02.368 --> 01:09:04.087
that I\'m attracted to men.\"

01:09:04.088 --> 01:09:08.137
And he had a momentary violent
reaction where he pulled out

01:09:08.138 --> 01:09:11.597
a gun and put it to his head.

01:09:11.598 --> 01:09:14.247
He didn\'t pull the trigger,
I\'m sure it wasn\'t loaded,

01:09:14.248 --> 01:09:17.217
but said, like, you know,
\"You can\'t do this to me.\"

01:09:17.218 --> 01:09:20.177
And I walked out of the room.

01:09:20.178 --> 01:09:22.728
What I needed to do, I
accomplished by telling him.

01:09:23.576 --> 01:09:24.576
And that was it.

01:09:25.908 --> 01:09:30.767
His position on the issue
became so interconnected

01:09:30.768 --> 01:09:35.437
with his professional standing
that he couldn\'t re-examine

01:09:35.438 --> 01:09:40.317
his initial view of this and it, you know,

01:09:40.318 --> 01:09:41.577
he was just stuck with it.

01:09:41.578 --> 01:09:42.657
He couldn\'t let it go.

01:09:45.168 --> 01:09:48.807
- The vote really concerned
us because no one was sure

01:09:48.808 --> 01:09:51.227
whether most psychiatrists were in favor

01:09:51.228 --> 01:09:52.727
of dropping homosexuality

01:09:52.728 --> 01:09:55.131
from The Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual.

01:10:07.238 --> 01:10:09.827
- The American Psychiatric
Association announced today

01:10:09.828 --> 01:10:13.407
that its membership has
voted to remove homosexuality

01:10:13.408 --> 01:10:16.047
from the Association\'s
list of mental disorders.

01:10:16.048 --> 01:10:18.917
- In the mail referendum,
58% of the membership

01:10:18.918 --> 01:10:22.557
upheld the earlier decision
by the APA\'s board.

01:10:22.558 --> 01:10:25.137
- Homosexual organizations
see the referendum vote

01:10:25.138 --> 01:10:26.917
as a landmark decision.

01:10:26.918 --> 01:10:28.847
In the words of one such organization,

01:10:28.848 --> 01:10:30.671
the greatest gay victory.

01:10:33.518 --> 01:10:37.207
- This albatross that
had been around our neck

01:10:37.208 --> 01:10:39.417
was finally lifted.

01:10:39.418 --> 01:10:42.791
It was as though the world
had dropped off our shoulders.

01:10:48.561 --> 01:10:51.011
- The word spread very quickly,

01:10:51.994 --> 01:10:55.469
and the effect was electric.

01:10:57.618 --> 01:11:00.237
- And, of course, when we got the result,

01:11:00.238 --> 01:11:02.821
we hooted and hollered
and jumped up and down.

01:11:05.678 --> 01:11:07.835
- I heard it on the radio.

01:11:07.836 --> 01:11:09.486
Well, I went out and bought
a bottle of champagne

01:11:09.487 --> 01:11:12.981
and thought it was time to
celebrate (chuckles), yeah.

01:11:13.864 --> 01:11:16.781
(victorious music)

01:11:33.330 --> 01:11:35.997
(subdued music)

01:12:16.555 --> 01:12:19.021
- [Announcer] Ladies and gentlemen,

01:12:19.022 --> 01:12:21.660
please welcome the CEO
and Medical Director

01:12:21.661 --> 01:12:26.661
of the American Psychiatric
Association, Dr. Saul Levin.

01:12:26.874 --> 01:12:30.041
(audience applauding)

01:12:32.688 --> 01:12:34.907
- For all the progress we have made,

01:12:34.908 --> 01:12:37.157
there are still some areas
where we must improve

01:12:37.158 --> 01:12:39.487
as we work towards our next milestone

01:12:39.488 --> 01:12:41.587
of the 200th anniversary.

01:12:41.588 --> 01:12:45.847
The fact that I\'m here truly
shows that APA is way past

01:12:45.848 --> 01:12:49.667
that discrimination that they
did all those years back.

01:12:49.668 --> 01:12:52.707
I\'m a psychiatrist and I\'m a homosexual.

01:12:52.708 --> 01:12:53.628
Nice to meet you.

01:12:53.629 --> 01:12:55.202
- [Audience Member] Nice to meet you.

01:12:55.203 --> 01:12:57.127
I noticed everyone wearing
these buttons. Who\'s John?

01:12:57.128 --> 01:13:02.128
- John Fryer was the psychiatrist
who, in 1972, wore a mask,

01:13:03.378 --> 01:13:05.097
came to this meeting...

01:13:05.098 --> 01:13:07.567
I go where it\'s not even
mentioned that I\'m gay.

01:13:07.568 --> 01:13:09.417
You know, if anything, it\'s the accent

01:13:09.418 --> 01:13:11.847
that gets mentioned
more than anything else.

01:13:11.848 --> 01:13:15.107
And isn\'t that the real, ultimate victory

01:13:15.108 --> 01:13:17.848
of what all those heroes back there did?

01:13:22.488 --> 01:13:25.267
- In this moment, I want
to honor and remember those

01:13:25.268 --> 01:13:29.207
who paved the way that
brings us here this day.

01:13:29.208 --> 01:13:31.917
Out, loud and proud.

01:13:31.918 --> 01:13:32.927
Say it with me.

01:13:32.928 --> 01:13:36.311
Out, loud and proud!

01:13:40.701 --> 01:13:42.572
♪ We\'ve lived through the fire ♪

01:13:42.573 --> 01:13:46.365
♪ We\'ve run through the rain ♪

01:13:46.366 --> 01:13:51.009
♪ We\'ve walked on a wire,
we fought through the pain ♪

01:13:51.010 --> 01:13:56.010
♪ We survived and arrived
more alive than we started ♪

01:13:56.414 --> 01:13:57.883
♪ Like a great kind of wave ♪

01:13:57.884 --> 01:14:01.747
♪ Like a chain off our hearts and ♪

01:14:01.748 --> 01:14:06.748
♪ Even though we\'ve gone far,
we\'ve got farther to go ♪

01:14:06.842 --> 01:14:11.842
♪ Gonna follow our star,
gonna follow our road ♪

01:14:12.065 --> 01:14:17.065
♪ We\'ll accept every step
to the death with desire ♪

01:14:17.373 --> 01:14:18.840
♪ We\'ll persist through the twists ♪

01:14:18.841 --> 01:14:22.704
♪ Without fists we are fighters ♪

01:14:22.705 --> 01:14:27.705
♪ I know that we ain\'t
gonna slow or stop ♪

01:14:27.796 --> 01:14:30.978
♪ Until we go ♪

01:14:30.979 --> 01:14:34.680
♪ to the other side of the rainbow ♪

01:14:34.681 --> 01:14:37.170
♪ Oh-h-h ♪

01:14:37.171 --> 01:14:40.174
♪ We\'ll be there with the clouds on top ♪

01:14:40.175 --> 01:14:43.057
♪ The day we go ♪

01:14:43.058 --> 01:14:46.824
♪ to the other side of the rainbow ♪

01:14:48.601 --> 01:14:51.184
(upbeat music)

01:15:03.758 --> 01:15:08.391
- Being in a social change
movement is very American.

01:15:09.338 --> 01:15:11.687
You always hope that what you\'re doing

01:15:11.688 --> 01:15:13.987
will be significant and will live on

01:15:13.988 --> 01:15:16.567
and lead to better things.

01:15:16.568 --> 01:15:19.845
But you don\'t know for sure.
You\'re taking a chance.

01:15:25.348 --> 01:15:29.367
- Through all of this, we
didn\'t want kids growing up

01:15:29.368 --> 01:15:31.326
feeling bad about themselves.

01:15:32.168 --> 01:15:34.230
And I think we all felt that.

01:15:34.231 --> 01:15:39.231
That we were doing it
for younger generations,

01:15:39.468 --> 01:15:40.901
not just for ourselves.

01:15:47.601 --> 01:15:49.617
- We thought we were right,
but we weren\'t at all clear

01:15:49.618 --> 01:15:52.537
that it would turn out to
have legacy and ripples

01:15:52.538 --> 01:15:55.188
and importance and other
things could be built on it.

01:15:56.271 --> 01:15:58.831
It was surprising how
important it turned out to be.

01:15:59.994 --> 01:16:04.713
♪ The storm isn\'t over,
but sunshine is here ♪

01:16:04.714 --> 01:16:09.714
♪ We won\'t let it fade
\'cause we won\'t disappear ♪

01:16:09.967 --> 01:16:11.566
♪ We\'ve been bruised but can\'t lose ♪

01:16:11.567 --> 01:16:15.271
♪ We refuse to be silent ♪

01:16:15.272 --> 01:16:16.792
♪ Might be stained but remain ♪

01:16:16.793 --> 01:16:20.637
♪ We sustain with defiance ♪

01:16:20.638 --> 01:16:25.638
♪ I know, that we ain\'t
gonna slow or stop ♪

01:16:26.022 --> 01:16:29.332
♪ Until we go oh-h-h ♪

01:16:29.333 --> 01:16:33.227
♪ To the other side of the rainbow ♪

01:16:33.228 --> 01:16:38.020
♪ Oh, we\'ll be there
with the clouds on top ♪

01:16:38.021 --> 01:16:41.465
♪ The day we go oh-h-h ♪

01:16:41.466 --> 01:16:46.300
♪ To the other side of the rainbow ♪

01:16:46.301 --> 01:16:50.355
♪ And when we\'re in the sky ♪

01:16:50.356 --> 01:16:55.356
♪ We\'ll cry so you still try ♪

01:16:59.209 --> 01:17:04.209
♪ I know that we ain\'t
gonna slow or stop ♪

01:17:05.003 --> 01:17:08.451
♪ Until we go oh-h-h ♪

01:17:08.452 --> 01:17:13.452
♪ To the other side of the rainbow ♪