WEBVTT

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[sil.]

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Questions to Dr. Philip Nitschke. So

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it may be back to the old car exhaust.
You said it must be tested

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with a gas monitor. How to
get and return it? By post?

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What kind of pipe? My
car exhaust diameter is

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43 millimeters, too wide for an
ordinary garden hose. How does

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one attach the pipe to the exhaust? You
said plastic would disintegrate with the

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heat. I\'m really afraid of botching it.
I don\'t want to add to the long

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list of attempted suicides. [music]

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I don\'t feel full in my
physical life anymore.

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I suppose you know that I
have decided to terminate

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my life. I\'ve had enough. And that\'s, that\'s
really the only reason. I\'ve had enough.

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There is no point in living if
there\'s nothing to live for

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and I feel that the only thing that
I can expect now is to deteriorate,

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to become useless and, and certainly

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worse than I am now and perhaps
my mind will go and I would hate

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that and certainly my body will go and I
won\'t be very happy with that either. So

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I might as well go while the going is good.
How old are you? I\'m going to be

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80 in a couple of months and
that\'s the limit I had given

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myself. (crosstalk) And you... When did you
set that limit? Um, well I, I decided long

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ago that I would not become too old and
at that time, I didn\'t really know what

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too old might be but lately I\'ve said,

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you know, that\'s enough. That\'s enough> I want to go
and I decided that okay, I\'m going to be 80. That\'s a

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good date. I don\'t want to be in my 80\'s.
I mean the idea absolutely,

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you know, not frightens me, but I
mean, it seems horrendous to me.

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I don\'t take to old age
very, very well. [music]

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I don\'t

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like the deterioration of my body for one
thing. I don\'t mean, it\'s not vanity,

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really. It\'s just that I don\'t like not
being able to do the things I used to

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be able to do. I know it\'s like that,
which is why I don\'t like it. Uh,

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and I don\'t like the discrepancy there
is between the mind, which remains

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what it always was, I think
anyway, and the body which is

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sort of physically, uh, deteriorated.

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Are you ill? No. Not really. Not really.

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That\'s one great thing about, about my
health situation is that I\'ve never

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known pain. I\'ve never known pain.
I\'ve never been

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in pain. I have never had any disease. I
have never broken a limb. I\'ve, you know, I

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really have led an enchanted
life as far as health goes,

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but it won\'t be like that always and,
uh, I can\'t count on going on like

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that. Are you lonely? Lonely? No.
I\'m lonely when I\'m with a lot of

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people. No, I\'ve lived alone all my life
but, I mean, I\'ve been surrounded by

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people all my life and I\'m not lonely. I
love being alone. Are you depressed? No.

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Do I sound depressed? No. No
I\'m not depressed at all. I\'m,

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sometimes, I\'m not even sad. I mean, I have nothing
to be sad about because what I\'m going to do is my

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choice and I can hardly wait and all
I, all I hope is that I succeed.

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I have a fear which is of,
it\'s not as easy as it sounds.

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Uh, so I have a fear which is perhaps I\'ll botch
it, you know, as many people do really and, uh,

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that wouldn\'t be very pleasant.
You say you can hardly wait. Yes.

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Yes, I wish I were dead in other words. It sort of sounds funny. I
mean, plainly it sounds funny but I wish, I wish it was behind me.

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So I can hardly wait. It
will be soon behind me.

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How long ago was

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the stroke, did you say? So you said
it, what, four or three years or so,

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see. Okay. So, I mean, is he saying that

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he wants, wants out in any way or?
People need to think about what

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they\'re, how willing they
are to move down this

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path too because, I mean, in some ways, if everyone one
says yes, but we really wish someone could help him

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but we\'re not gonna help him, uh, it,
that sometimes happens to people I meet

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and if that is the case, well, there
aren\'t very many options left. So

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and I suppose if we can find that out fairly
quickly, well we, it makes a big difference.

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On the other hand, if people are saying yes, I\'m going to take
this course of action. I realize that it\'s, uh, could possibly

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be seen as a breach of the law but we\'re prepared
to do it, well that changes things a bit and

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what I can do in those circumstances is make sure that
people know exactly what they\'re doing. I mean, medically

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and legally so that there\'s no mistakes
made. Yeah, that\'s fine. All right well,

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we\'ll, we\'ll talk tomorrow. Okay, bye.

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I\'ve got another four to do but they,

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they actually are quite stressful so after about
two of these calls, I usually have to have a break

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and a cup of coffee and calm down a bit.
They\'re usually difficult. So that\'s

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what I\'m gonna do now. Thanks. [music]

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My own pain is made worse by my
wife\'s suffering as she cares for

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me. Bathing me, drying me, cleaning up
after my accidents in the middle of the

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night, and watching my body fade away.
Bob Dent died last Sunday. We shared

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a meal and we shared a drink
and then he indicated

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that he wanted to proceed. He\'d activated this computer
program which administered a lethal injection.

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Sleep is almost immediate from the administration
of the very fast acting barbiturate

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and that is followed by a slower acting barbiturate and
eventually by the muscle relaxant and death occurs

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within a few minutes. It was the first case of voluntary
euthanasia since it became law in the northern territory

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in July. In Federal Parliament, liberal
back bencher Kevin Andrews has sponsored

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a private member\'s bill to overturn the
northern territory law. I don\'t think future

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Australians will thank us if we didn\'t have
the courage to address this issue. [music]

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There were

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problems with legislation. Not just the fact
that we lost the law, but it was also I worked,

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for a while, the only person that ever used the law
in the world and I saw then what we were subjecting

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our patients to. They had to go off to this doctor. They had
to go off to that doctor. They had to go to a third doctor

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and we saw some of the humiliating experiences
very sick people were put through, all

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with the law that was functioning. In other
words, the law sets up this new set of arbiters,

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in this case, a bunch of doctors that people
have to go and beg permission from. So I was,

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that made me feel uneasy, even though the law was
seen to serve the interests of poor people, but

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I didn\'t like what we were having to subject
them to and then, of course, as I said,

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we saw the law overturned. So there\'s a whole stack
of reasons that made me really move away from the

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legislative approach and start to feel that there had to
be a different way, a way that really did give power back

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and give control back, give
authority back to the individual

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themselves. Well, that\'s the first thing I thought
of before I had met Dr. Nitschke. How can,

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how am I going to kill myself when I want
to and I, I said I\'ll never be able to draw

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a gun to my head. I, I don\'t have any gun anyway, but
that couldn\'t be possible to find one. I\'ll never

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be able to jump from the 10th floor of a building.
I\'ll never be able to do something violent,

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you know? And besides, this is not the death I
want. I don\'t want a scary, violent death. [sil.]

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Come on

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baby. Come on. Yeah? This is,

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this is where I buy my bird\'s grain. I buy

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10 kilos of sunflower seeds in those bags and
I have a large collection of it. Now what I

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did is I did a hem, which I
stitched and a very large, very

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wide hem and I put this
very big elastic in it

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and all you have to do is do
that, put it on your head,

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see, my little head is inside it and
you do that and after a while, you

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are dead. Now I don\'t like that at all. I think
it\'s a, I don\'t think it\'s nice. I think it\'s,

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you know, it\'s as if you were wrapping
a piece of ham or something like

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that. You know, I think it\'s not a nice way to die
but apparently, according to Philip, it\'s very

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good way. [sil.]

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There. That\'s the way.

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I\'ll take it off before I die.

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So, that\'s

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the plastic bag session. I don\'t laugh
about death. I don\'t think death

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is a laughable matter. Really, I don\'t.
But, I mean, it\'s, it\'s a fact of life.

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You know, death is a fact of life. The minute you live,
you know you\'re going to die. So you might as well accept

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it and once you accept it and you want
to do it, you might as well accept

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it in good spirit. I mean, I\'m flippant
only because I don\'t know what else to be,

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frankly.

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Hi. How are you? Doing fine.
How you doing? Nice to see

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you. Nice to see you. Nice to be here.
All right. [sil.]

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We don\'t skirt or run away from the difficult
topics either. And one of the difficult topics is

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depression and psychiatric illness. It is a very
vexed issue and we have to, we have to talk about it

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and the problems it can create and the last thing we\'ll
do before we have a break is talk about palliative care

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and where that fits into the whole equation. So that\'s
just a, the rest of this is a rough guide and we

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can change it if you\'d like. Um, then
we\'ll have a break, a cup of tea, and

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then we\'ll come back and have a look at the more practical
things such as the strategies for getting around the law

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with the so-called slow euthanasia. That\'s where doctors
give more and more morphine until the person dies.

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Uh, it\'s a loophole which is exploited
by the medical profession trying to

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help people. We\'ll talk about
the drugs then that people use

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themselves, that is without any medical help. They get the drugs and they
know that if they take them, they\'ll die. We\'ll talk about the non-drug

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methods and that really does tend
to revolve around the use of these,

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um, the ubiquitous plastic bags,
which have received a huge amount of

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publicity of recent times. We\'ll talk a bit about how
they work and why they work and dispel some of the

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misinformation there. Uh, carbon monoxide is
another thing that fits into that section and

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then we\'ll finish up with a little
bit about when it\'s all over,

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talking about coronials, um, inquests,

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death certificate signings, and autopsies and those issues
as a way to finish up. We should finish off by, by,

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uh, certainly by 1:00. [music]

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We\'ve seen

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all of the serious diseases.
Predominately, it\'s the cancers. Um,

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followed by the neurological diseases. We\'ve had no shortage of people with things like Motor Neuron
Disease, Parkinson\'s Disease, Multiple Sclerosis are neurological conditions and then perhaps

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respiratory diseases like, um, Obstructive
Airways Disease, Emphysema, those

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sorts of diseases, too. So these are the big
groups who, of people who come, the sick

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people who come along seeking specific
information about how they might,

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if it should get to that point, how they might
most effectively and peacefully end their

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lives. My name is Helen. Uh,
I think that I couldn\'t

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possibly go into a nursing home and lose
control over my life, uh, and so when

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I feel that I can no
longer live in my home,

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um, I, I want to have the means
of ending my life at my own,

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my own convenience. My name is

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Max. I\'m a retired farmer. Um,

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I\'m perfectly well although I\'ve had two,
I\'ve got two artificial hips and I had

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three lumps of cancer
and sundry other things

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but I want to control what happens.
I\'m Caren.

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My cancer is in remission but,
um, my whole family has died of

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cancer and so I, you know, when the time
comes, there\'s no one here to look after

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me. I need to be able
to take control in good

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time. Um, I\'m here because I\'ve got an aged
mother who is mentally very alert, uh,

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who\'s had a couple of falls and, um,
simply, uh, wants to end her life.

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She\'s had enough. When I decided that
I wanted to do what I wanted to do,

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I didn\'t, I realized it wasn\'t as easy
as it seems and I was looking for

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people who could give me ideas or
perhaps, you know, uh, just, just

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would feel the way I did and I heard
about the Western Australia Voluntary

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Euthanasia Association, which I didn\'t
know anything about and I joined

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and then through them, I heard
about the, the meetings

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that, uh, Philip Nitschke had
for people who wanted to, uh,

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to have some advice. It was just general advice
given to everyone. It, there was nothing personal

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in that and so I went to one and I
was absolutely, you know, dazzled.

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I said, oh, it must, it makes it sound so
easy, which of course was, was not true.

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It was not easy. Then came
personal meetings, you know,

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and then he got to know me better and there was
a lot of correspondence actually between us,

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so he knew me better and I
knew him better too and,

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um, I think we had some sort of
respect for each other. [music]

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And certainly there\'s been
four attempts to have me

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deregistered. Um, my
medical, uh, physician, uh,

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taken from me by branches of the Australian Medical
Association over the running of these workshops.

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But what the AMA said, and this is a press release they put out
not too long ago in Western Australia when we ran workshops over

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there. I\'ll just read one quote because it refers
yourselves. It says the people attending the

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workshops are likely to be fragile
and vulnerable members of our

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community who are being exploited. So if
you\'re feeling fragile and vulnerable and

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about to be exploited, you will no doubt concur
with and, the view of the, uh, the President of the

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AMA in Western Australia.

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If it were to come out that you were thinking
or planning, actively planning the end of

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your life, the doctor has the ability to
simply take you off the street and put

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you into a institution where you\'re being psychiatrically
assessed. So it\'s a double edged sword here.

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You\'ve gotta be careful. It can be a very beneficial thing,
\'cause the treatment with antidepressants can sometimes

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really open up options which you simply haven\'t
seen before. It\'s worth looking into but

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be careful.

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The point I want to make there is a rather
more general point that this myth that\'s in

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society that you simply take a handful of anything and you\'d get
a peaceful death is completely wrong. If you take a handful

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of anything, you\'re likely to
make yourself very sick indeed.

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You mentioned before and

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I think with that one... Yes. Uh,
a quick death and you mentioned

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the figure of 20 minutes. Yes. That rather
horrified me. What, that\'s a quick death?

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Oh, you mean is that slow by your
standards? Well, it\'s, yeah, I presume

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you, you, you\'re unconscious fairly quickly. What, what,
what\'s quickly? What\'s quick with Nembutal is the, uh, is

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the rapid sleep. Uh, a person drinks a drug

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and, as I said, is taking their alcohol, usually sipping
on their champagne and saying goodbye and they\'ve

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gone. And, um, what\'d you think of the
session? Absolutely wonderful. It\'s

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my second and the first one I came to was six
months ago and I thought I\'d be ready to buy,

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get the bag but now I find I\'ve got to wait
another six months. But I think I\'ll make it.

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Have you got a terminal illness? No, no.
No, no, no. I\'m just being naughty.

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No, not remotely. You\'re being naughty?
Yes, very. Have you got

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children or family? Yes. (inaudible)

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Yes. I\'ve got a husband
that doesn\'t approve at all

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but that\'s all right. He won\'t be involved.

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(inaudible)

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Cheers to our everlasting

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lives.

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Some nice people, uh,

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anxious to talk about their own circumstances and so they
use the tea break, uh, and that can be awkward because, uh,

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.999
they can, there can be issues which are of
such importance to them that they feel they

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.999
really gotta tell you about this and they want you to make
decisions and give advice here in tea time and I must say I,

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.999
I kind of dread that happening.
Going on the trains or some other

00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.999
methods, hanging myself. They
look all messy and they look

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.999
all dramatic and they\'re
more made for showmanship.

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.999
I have Parkinson\'s.

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.999
And the Parkinson\'s produces depression and

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.999
depression produces Parkinson\'s
and they feed one on the other.

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.999
Do you find yourself having morbid
thoughts about killing yourself?

00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.999
Not exactly morbid thoughts.

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.999
Depressing thoughts

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.999
and also what the whole
scene will look like

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.999
when I\'m not around anymore.
Do I pay all my debts before I

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.999
go or do I

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.999
finish, leave unfinished business around?

00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.999
No, I don\'t have family.
I have plenty of friends

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.999
but that\'s not the point. In the
final, final analysis, you are by

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:39.999
yourself when the final act.
There\'s nobody there.

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.999
I\'m in a position, I\'m
completely dependent on my wife.

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.999
After I had my stroke, sometime you know,
but I wouldn\'t know what to do with her,

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.999
without her help. That\'s
what I have to take in

00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:59.999
consideration. Foremost in my mind always,

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.999
my dependency on my good wife.

00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.999
My name is Ann Brine (ph).

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.999
I have a lot of faith in the very

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.999
valuable work that Dr. Pitschke and Dr.
Nitschke is doing

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.999
and, um, I think it is unique

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.999
in Australia to be able to
call a spade a spade and

00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.999
that there is no beating about the
bush when you\'ve done your best all

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.999
your life, when it comes to crunch time,

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.999
that there is some quality in dying.
If you have looked

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.999
for quality of living, why not
for quality in dying and you

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.999
have to be able to make
your own choices in that,

00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.999
not to dodge suffering but
at the end of a lot of

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.999
suffering. Thank you. [music]

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:09.999
I was an

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.999
adorable kid, of course. I
was, I was very lucky because

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.999
I was born and brought up on the
Atlantic coast of France and spent all

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.999
my childhood on a small island
with, uh, the sea practically

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.999
surrounding the house I lived
in and I had this marvelous

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.999
symbiosis (ph) relationship with
the sea, with the ocean most of my

00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.999
formative years and I think
perhaps some of this free

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:48.000
spirit attitude comes from that childhood.
There was the

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.999
Virgin Mary and there was, uh, le
petit Jésus, which is Jesus as a

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.999
child, you know and so forth and I just went along with that.
It was nice stories and so on but I really never thought

00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:39.999
of God. What is God? I never
thought of it and if I

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.999
thought of afterlife, I looked in my
prayer book and I saw these images

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.999
of clouds and little people with
wings who were around this bearded

00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.999
figure and I said hmm, that\'s nice. You
know, Um, and then you, you would be told

00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.999
about the devils, which were there
waiting for you with their pitchfork and

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.999
throwing you in the fire and I said mmm, that\'s not
nice but I never really, it never concerned me.

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.999
I didn\'t feel it concerned me at all.

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.999
Then one day, I came home
from school munching on

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:19.999
a piece of sausage and my
grandmother saw me and

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.999
she hit the ceiling because it
was on a Friday and on a Friday,

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:29.999
I\'d been told you do not eat meat.

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.999
She really was very unhappy

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:39.999
and punished me and repeated to me a
million times that this was against

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.999
the, the religion and so
forth and then and there

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.999
I realized that religion was stupid.
You know, I said now if there\'s a God

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:54.999
who cares whether I eat meat on a Friday or not,
then he\'s not my God and I said forget about

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.999
it, you know. And I told my grandmother,
I was about, about 9 or 10, that,

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.999
uh, I wasn\'t going to church anymore. Of course
she would have none of it and that was that.

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.999
I, all my religion fell away, whatever I
had. It was not very hard to shift the load,

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.999
you know? Uh, and then I wasn\'t
interested in religion at all ever

00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:19.999
again, except to, uh, you know, try
to understand what made people

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.999
move in that direction. So A piece
of sausage? A piece of sausage

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:29.999
did it. After that, I
had lots, lots of years

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.999
when I hardly ever thought about it, you know. I
mean, I was too busy to think about such thing

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:39.999
as God and so forth and sorry.

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.999
She makes me laugh. Just
because a piece of sausage

00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:49.999
did it but it did. [music]

00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:58.000
I started going to

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.999
the University of Paris, the Sorbonne,
and was there most of the war

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.999
years. I was studying at the
Sorbonne, and I did a lot of things,

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.999
everything I could do. There was nothing a young
person could do job wise during the occupation.

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:19.999
People my age wanted to get out of
France, just wanted to get out. So I

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.999
applied for a scholarship in America,
was told I had no chance to get

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.999
one and I got one shortly. And I went to the
University of Chicago, which was giving me a very

00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.999
good, uh, international fellowship
and I stayed there two years

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.999
and after I had tasted America, which
was immediately after the war,

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.999
I mean, it seemed like the land of plenty,
the land of freedom. There was not this

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.999
terrific weight of being an
occupied country, which had been

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.999
and I loved being a foreigner.
I\'ve loved that all my life.

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:59.999
The Waldorf was a, you know, hot
bed of famous people. [music]

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:08.000
Well, I was in the publicity
department mostly, which

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.999
means that I had to arrange press
interviews, conferences and so forth,

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.999
uh, for famous people and, uh, I, uh,

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.999
so I, I just got to know
some of the people that

00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.999
came often or lived there because I was a part
of the Waldorf which was, uh, apartments where

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.999
people lived. It was the most expensive, the most
glamorous part of the Waldorf and people, quite a few

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.999
people kept an apartment free for when
they came. Probably cost them $1,000 a day

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.999
for, even in those times, but anyway, obviously
they had the money. The Duke and Duchess of Windsor

00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.999
lived at the Waldorf for quite a while and I
had a good deal to do with them of course

00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:54.999
because they were always called upon
by the press and so forth and, uh,

00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.999
then there was many famous visitors
also were given an apartment there,

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.999
which I had to deal with.
I could tell you a lot

00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:09.999
of names, Marilyn Monroe, Salvador Dalí, I mean,
I go from one to the other as they come to

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.999
me. Um, the Kennedys.

00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.999
I could have married a number of

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.999
times, I\'d say, but I always thought what\'s the
point? If I don\'t know what was the point, I will be

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.999
divorced within a year
because I couldn\'t be very

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.999
faithful to a man and I couldn\'t stand to
have a man, uh, tell me, darling, what\'s

00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.999
for dinner. Now anybody who said darling, what\'s
for dinner they got a plate in their face

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.999
and I couldn\'t possibly have, you
know, have put up with a man night

00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.999
and day. So there\'ve, there\'ve been lots of lovers
you said, but you don\'t think you could have been

00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.999
faithful, lots of different men.
Yes. Yes. And a great variety

00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:58.999
which was rather pleasant. You know,
age and so forth. (inaudible)

00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:00.000
Well, I happen

00:29:00.001 --> 00:29:04.999
to knew who they were. You wouldn\'t know
anyway but, um, had, uh, yes, I\'ve had,

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.999
I\'ve had my share shall we say? Perhaps more than
my share. But I wasn\'t running after men at all.

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.999
At all. I mean, you know,
I, I just was there and

00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.999
sometimes, I mean, if somebody
just made any sign of treating me

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.999
like an object, they were
out immediately. So that\'s

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.999
that. [sil.]

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:38.000
What we do is we make the device

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.999
work is to, first of all, fill
the device itself up with the

00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.999
two ingredients that produce
the carbon monoxide.

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:51.000
There\'s (inaudible)

00:29:51.001 --> 00:29:54.999
so it\'s two of the actual. The
second ingredient is dripped

00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.999
into the top of the device. Carbon monoxide is
produced. The carbon is washed in the water,

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.999
comes out through this outlet. Just to show
that it\'s produced, we can put it through this

00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:09.999
flasks but that\'s not normally the case. It normally
would go straight across to a person wearing a pair of

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.999
nasal prongs as they call them. So they\'re
just breathing normally and as they would

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.999
switch on the machine, uh, the carbon monoxide would
be produced and would flow through the person\'s

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.999
nose and within a few minutes, they would lose
consciousness and not long after that, they would die.

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:29.999
Just to show that we are producing carbon monoxide,
because it\'s quite dangerous, it\'s done inside this fume

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:34.999
cabinet. The air\'s being sucked out. It isn\'t all
closed, the covering down it, as it starts up but

00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:39.999
here\'s the meter here which measures carbon monoxide.
So that\'s sampling the air in there, the person\'s nose.

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.999
If we switch that on now, it takes

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.999
a, it takes a minute to stabilize
itself but we, we oughta see

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.999
right now that there\'s no carbon
monoxide by the person\'s nose right now.

00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.999
It\'s going right over the front.

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.999
This, this gas, this carbon monoxide,
it\'s not bubbling through here.

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.999
Get the hell outta here,

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.999
I think. That\'s that bloody bottler and
those couplings. There\'s something

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.999
wrong with that, the bottom of that
coupling. They\'re trying to demonstrate it.

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.999
It\'s producing a lot of
carbon monoxide though.

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.999
I think we better put this down
and get outta here. [sil.]

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:38.000
Oh fuck! [sil.]

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:53.000
[music]

00:31:55.000 --> 00:32:03.000
And I\'m sure of it. That

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.999
there will come a time when some of us, anyway, will want
to use it and be glad of what we\'ve done today. [music]

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.999
If someone

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.999
does use this information irrationally
someday, that\'s their, their

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.999
doing and we can\'t prevent that.
So this is the first one. [music]

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:38.000
Co-Genie is launched into the

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.999
world. [music]

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.999
They\'re not

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.999
running some backyard operation
here, uh, which, um,

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.999
which we\'re ashamed of.
Um, I think it would

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.999
be quite hard to actually entrap but we\'re all
aware of the fact that that is an issue and has

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:09.999
become an issue, really, since or because of the events
in the last few days. For those of you who aren\'t

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.999
aware, in the last three weeks, three
people have died who were people

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.999
that attended the workshops and they were
members of Exit who were elderly but

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.999
not ill and who had attended workshops. The
first two were a couple in Bunderburg (ph),

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.999
Queensland. They were Sid and Margery
Croft who were in their late \'80\'s,

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.999
but the letter that I got in the mail outlined the
fact that they had both lost partners when they

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.999
were in their \'70\'s, they\'d both had a
very difficult time following that. Sid

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.999
had spent a couple of years drinking heavily
and... To whom it may concern: Please

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.999
don\'t condemn us or feel
badly of us to what we\'ve

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.999
done. We\'ve thought clearly of this
for a long time and it\'s taken

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.999
a long time to get the drugs needed.
We\'re in our late

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.999
\'80\'s and 90 is on the horizon.
At this stage,

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.999
would it be wrong to expect no
deterioration in our health or

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.999
more importantly, would our
mental state be bright and alert?

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:19.999
In 1974, we both lost our partners,

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.999
whom we loved very dearly.
For two and a half years,

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.999
Margery became a recluse with her
grief and I became an alcoholic.

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.999
We would not like to go through
that traumatic experience

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.999
again. Hence, we decided we wanted to go

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.999
together. We\'ve left instructions
that we be cremated and that our

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.999
ashes be mixed together. We
feel that way, we will be

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.999
together forever. Please don\'t feel

00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.999
sad or grief for us but
feel glad in your heart

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.999
as we do. Sydney and Margery

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:09.999
Croft. I see you\'ve quite a lot here.
For example, you\'ve got the,

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:11.999
um... (inaudible)

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:13.999
. (inaudible)

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:15.000
, yeah. Yes. Quite a

00:35:15.001 --> 00:35:19.999
lot of it. Yes. As a matter of fact, I...
So you\'ve got

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.999
three. Sort of stole it
somewhere in America. Yes.

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.999
Well it\'s one of the most, um, it\'s a very hard
drug to obtain these days and it\'s one of the most

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.999
lethal of the barbiturates and you, and
you\'ve also got, um, Soneryl, which is

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.999
another barbiturate which is hard to come by and quite a
large quantity of that too, so. Yeah, I\'ve never opened

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.999
that except for... (crosstalk) Yes. You know, a
sample. Looking at them, I sent some samples to

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.999
Paris. To see whether they were still effective.
Yes. Because I noticed that they, they\'ve both, um,

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.999
reached the end of their expiry date. (crosstalk)
Oh long ago, long ago. The barbiturates are very

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.999
stable. But you, you had said in
that workshop that they lasted for

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.999
perhaps even up to 50 years. (crosstalk) Fifty
years. Yeah, that\'s right. So that\'s, you know,

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.999
beyond the beyond. (crosstalk) Yeah, but you still thought it was
wise to get them tested? Yes, I thought so. Yes, I think that\'s

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:11.000
probably (inaudible)

00:36:11.001 --> 00:36:14.999
. (crosstalk) I thought so. I don\'t know to what
extent they were tested but the fact they said that

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.999
they are very dangerous. It can kill a horse. In
Oregon, where, uh, where voluntary euthanasia\'s

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.999
legal, they give you 10 grams of barbiturates to take,
like when you\'re eligible. (crosstalk) Yeah, yeah. They

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.999
give you 10 grams. And each one of these
bottles has got 10 grams in it. So you\'ve

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.999
got, uh, a lot more than a lethal dose here.
Yes. So that if you were to, uh, take

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.999
those drugs, the same thing would happen to you
as happens to people presumably in America

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.999
where they consume them and that is
that they go to sleep and they die.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.999
Peacefully. We have an expression in French which
is [non-English narration] which is a (inaudible)

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.999
expression which means to enlist before you are
called. That\'s me. Oh, I see. I see. That\'s me.

00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:59.999
You know. And besides, besides,
besides, I, I don\'t want to do anything

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.999
anymore. I don\'t feel like doing
anything anymore. I have, I have

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:09.999
absolutely nothing that I
really think oh I wish I could

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.999
do that. Not even, not even I\'ll do it but I wish I could do
it. There\'s nothing. Does that mean you\'ve done everything

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.999
that you want to do? (crosstalk) No. No it doesn\'t. I\'m far
from having done everything but I have done enough. Yes.

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.999
I\'ve done, I want, I don\'t want to travel
anymore. I\'ve traveled a lot. Oh, so you reckon

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:29.999
you just reach a point where, at that point,
you just realize that the time is right to

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.999
die. Yes. Yes. What is that? I mean, I
don\'t think, I don\'t think you have to be

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:39.999
terminally ill to want to die,
to want to terminate your life.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.999
Anybody above the age of 70, and I
don\'t say 80, I say 70, who feels

00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.999
that way for whatever reason ought to
be able to a doctor, to go to a doctor

00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:54.999
and say I\'ve had enough of life. I\'d like
to terminate it. Will you please help

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:59.999
me? (crosstalk) Yes. Yes. And
would be also ready to accept

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.999
all the assessments that might be needed.
Psychiatrists and so forth. And I assure you, I

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.999
could convince any psychiatrist. Yes. What about people
that would say that well, you must be, you must be

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:14.999
depressed to think this way. I say well, look at me.
Yes, well that\'s what I\'d say too because, I mean,

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.999
you\'re clearly not. So does that mean that you\'d pick
a day? Do you actually... No, I haven\'t picked a day.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.999
I\'ve picked, let\'s say, a period of some
days. (crosstalk) Oh, okay. And one day

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.999
I feel worse than another and I say this is it. I\'ve,
I\'ve had it. (crosstalk) Oh, okay. But you know what?

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.999
When I wake up in the morning, I just don\'t
want to get up. I mean, I just say I can\'t

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.999
stand the idea of another day. Yeah.
Yeah and I, I really say oh God.

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.999
I, must I? You know? When, when you reach
that point, it\'s just no, I mean, I

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.999
pick up as the day goes on and I\'m not
depressed. (crosstalk) Yeah. I\'m just bored.

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:54.999
Yeah. Bored with life. Yeah. So
one of those days within that

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.999
little group that you\'ve bracketed is the ones where you\'ll
go ahead. (crosstalk) Yeah. You\'ll decide that on that

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.999
night, you will take the, uh... (crosstalk) Yes. So I\'ll have to,
I\'ll have to do a few preparations during the day. Yes. You know,

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.999
definitely. Yes. You\'ve got so many
drugs here that you\'ve got enough

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.999
for a second, third, and fourth
attempt and it\'s, so, I suppose

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.999
it\'s very simple. Yes it is. You just,
you just, uh, uh, find a comfortable

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.999
place and usually people drink alcohol
afterwards too. Yes. As a way of, as a way of,

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.999
um... Yes, I have my cocktail already. Have you? And
what\'s the cocktail consist of? It\'s going to be vodka.

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.999
Yes? With a very strong,
uh, fruit, uh, juice.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:39.999
I mean, uh... Oh, I see. (crosstalk) You know, a fruit concentrate. Well do
you, do you like vodka with fruit juice? Is this a sort a, is it? No. Oh,

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.999
I see. I mean, I don\'t dislike it but I, it\'s not
my drink I mean. What\'s your drink? My drink

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.999
is gin. Well why not drink gin then?
Because I, I, I like gin

00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:54.999
diluted. You know what I mean? I like a gin and tonic.
Yes. I mean, I like a dry martini but I couldn\'t have

00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:59.999
one of those in those circumstances. I mean, a dry martini requires
a certain frame of mind. (crosstalk) I see. I see. So you reckon

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.999
the frame of mind that you would be in would
warrant, uh, vodka. (crosstalk) Vodka.

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:09.999
Yes. I see. With, with strong fruit
enhancement. Yes, but vodka doesn\'t have

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.999
any taste in itself. I see. Okay. So I\'ll have one in one hand and
the other one in the other hand. Yes. Probably, quite possibly

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.999
you could, I suppose. And I don\'t care what
they put on my death certificate. They can put

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.999
suicide, they can put anything. I don\'t have any life insurance, so. (crosstalk)
Yes. So you\'re not trying. That\'s right. So you\'re not trying to hide

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.999
the fact in any way. You... No. No. Could care
less. Well in that case, you should also leave a

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.999
note. Oh, I will. Saying that I, well, saying,
saying all sorts things. Yes, I will.

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.999
You can say all sorts of, you can say all sorts of things. things. (crosstalk)
You know me, I\'m a great one for... But I mean, one of the things you should

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.999
make it clear though is that you didn\'t receive
any help, because you doing this is perfectly

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.999
legal. I know. Or we\'ll look
at, if, if you have any

00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.999
questions, which you might have, I suppose, if you\'re thinking
about things and I mean, if you, for whatever reason,

00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:59.999
decided to obviously change or alter
your plans by, um, you would be aware

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.999
that I\'m very comfortable with whatever you decide
because it\'s clear to me that what you\'re deciding

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.999
is what you want. (crosstalk) Yes. So if you were to change
your plans, obviously that would be just fine. (crosstalk) It\'d

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:14.999
be most amazing if I did. Um, yeah. I don\'t know
what would have to happen for me to do it. Whatever.

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.999
Don\'t feel like, don\'t feel like waiting
around for Christmas? Christmas. I loathe

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.999
Christmas. You loathe Christmas. Right. Well.
Anything concerned with Christ anyway,

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:29.999
I detest. Yes, yes. Uh, what
about the new year? What about,

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.999
uh, what about, I don\'t\' know? No,
there\'s nothing that can tempt me,

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.999
really.

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.999
Well I\'ll get going and, uh... Yeah, I\'ll
go with you. I will accompany my guest

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.999
to the door. I\'m sorry. (crosstalk)
And, uh, go with you and look at all,

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:54.999
look at all this food. What am I doing? Oh and if
anything pops up, just, , you know, just give me a

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.999
call. (crosstalk) Yes. Yes, Philip I will. Okay. I will. It has
been good knowing you. It\'s been very good knowing you. Really.

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.999
Okay. Bye bye. Bye bye. Have a safe trip.
Thank you. (inaudible)

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.999
Okay. Got it.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.999
Done. Some people that would be looking at,
at the documentary would say well, I mean,

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.999
if Dr. Nitschke appeared on camera with, with
Lisette. They talked about death and, and two weeks

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.999
later, she killed herself. That he was encouraging
her for his cause. I don\'t think he was

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.999
in any of the interviews. I don\'t really know but he was
not discouraging me either. That would be ridiculous.

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.999
I mean, you know, that would be going completely against
his principals and, uh, I would, I probably would

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.999
tell him look, okay, if that\'s the way you feel,
the conversation is finished, you know? Uh,

00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.999
I mean, I don\'t think anybody can say that in
his interviews he encouraged me to do what I

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.999
wanted to do because it was perfectly clear that
I wanted to do it. I mean, if I had not wanted

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:54.999
to do it, I wouldn\'t even know him.
You know, he\'s, he\'s an

00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.999
instrument to my case. That\'s all.
You can\'t say that

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.999
he, he didn\'t do anything to
influence me in any way. I\'m sad.

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.999
Very sad. I mean, my, the, the say, I feel a great
deal of sadness about the fact that I won\'t see

00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.999
her again. Sure, she\'s going. I mean,
it would be silly if one didn\'t feel

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.999
sadness. That\'s not a matter of switching off, like some
sort of automon and simply saying here\'s the answers to your

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.999
questions like some sort of machine. I\'m not just sitting
there like a computer answering the questions. I feel great

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.999
sadness. He, uh, said to us today in
the interview that he, he feels sad

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.999
that you, you\'re going to do what you\'re
going to do. Well, you know, in a way, I\'m

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:39.999
glad. In a way I\'m glad. That means that he
has some feeling anyway and it means that

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.999
he was, uh, you know, we had a good relationship
and he knows that that relationship is going to

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.999
end and that\'s, that\'s, uh, nice to know.
But were you surprised that he expressed

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.999
that? Yes I was. Yes, I\'m surprised.
Why? Its, uh, he would never

00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:59.999
have expressed it to me, you see? Because
that would go against his principals.

00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.999
So I, so I\'m glad that, sometimes, you
know, sometimes you think, you look

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.999
objectively and you say this man has no
feelings at all, which, which I don\'t

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.999
think but it would be very easy to, to think
that way, you know? So it\'s nice when

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.999
you know he can feel sadness and
sadness because I disappear, not

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.999
that I mean that much to him at all, but anyway
that means that he has sort of liked me in

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.999
a way and, uh, that\'s something
that\'s finished or it\'s going to

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.999
be finished. So it\'s, no, it\'s
a good thing to, to know and

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.999
to, to store in my thoughts.

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.999
Uh, this happens a lot. I mean,
I do this a lot and, uh, and

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.999
I see a lot of people, uh, who are
taking the step and moving towards death

00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:54.999
and, and, uh, I mean, it\'s, people

00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:59.999
don\'t live forever. I mean, people say goodbye and I, and
she\'s saying goodbye and she\'s saying in a way which I

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.999
know at least she\'s getting what she wanted. I think
what really would upset me is a situation where a person

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.999
is trapped and having their life prolonged
against their wishes and I see a bit of that too

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.999
and these are the really tragic situations. There\'s nothing
particularly tragic about Lisette\'s decision. [music]

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:23.000
I am neither terminally ill

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:39.999
nor in pain or depressed and
am sound of mind. However,

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.999
I\'m terminating my life by way of
voluntary euthanasia by taking a

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.999
drug which I hope will
ensure a gentle, rapid, and

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.999
painless death. If
voluntary euthanasia were

00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.999
legal, if it were possible to make arrangements
to obtain the necessary assistance

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.999
and controls when it becomes obvious
that one\'s condition has reached a point

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:09.999
where there\'s no longer a quality of life,
then I might wait for that moment to request

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.999
to be helped to die in a humane way but

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.999
since lawful assistance to die at one\'s
chosen moment is not accepted in this

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.999
cowardly, restrictive society, I\'m
taking the matter into my own hands,

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:29.999
hoping that circumstances may
change to make it easier for others

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:34.999
in the future. Lisette Nigot. How

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.999
will you get your mind calm? Is there going
to be a process? That\'s what I don\'t know.

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:44.999
I mean, I\'ve said perhaps I
should take a, no because I think

00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:49.999
I\'ll be calm. I\'ll be a bit
afraid, but I\'d be calm. What

00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.999
will you be afraid of? Well I\'ll be afraid of botching
it. That\'s the only thing that frightens me. I mean,

00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.999
you, you don\'t do a thing like that without
being afraid. I\'m, I\'m trying to picture the

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.999
period of time. Yeah, well, I am too.
I am too. I\'ve, I\'ve, I\'ve

00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:09.999
rehearsed it in my mind many, many times.
I have decided that

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.999
I don\'t talk to anybody. I don\'t
answer the phone. I don\'t do

00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.999
anything. I change my message on the phone, which
is how my friends are going to pick up the

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.999
fact that I\'ve gone. I, um, then I
do sort of the routine. You know?

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:29.999
I, I do it as late as possible. I have my
cup of tea at about 11:00 or something like

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.999
that. I have all my little posters ready,
saying don\'t call an ambulance. Don\'t do

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:39.999
this and I have a... [sil.]

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:48.000
When her friends tried to
contact her at home, this is

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.999
what they heard. I\'m

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:39.999
sorry. Lisette has gone on a trip
and will not be returning. With the

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.999
bougainvillaea blooming outside her small home,
the retired French born university lecturer

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:49.999
killed herself, drinking medication she\'d
purchased overseas. A short note left on her

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:54.999
bed spoke of her admiration of the euthanasia
campaign of Dr. Philip Nitschke. She\'d known him for

00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:59.999
some years. I have a very strong view
that we should not be encouraging

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.999
healthy people to take their lives, no matter
what age they are. I\'m appalled. Doctor, has it

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:09.999
ever occurred to you that perhaps you might be suffering from some
type of illness, uh, because I think a lot of people might find it

00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:14.999
so terribly objectionable. If
someone is elderly and is depressed

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.999
and, and you happen to catch them at
that moment. Dr. Nitschke\'s opponents

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.999
immediately accused him of running euthanasia advice
clinics. The majority of people who attend them

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.999
are healthy people but they go away
armed with the knowledge of how to kill

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.999
themselves. Statistics say she could
have looked forward to at least

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:39.999
another 10 years of life. One of the
things that\'s worried us last time was

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.999
the news that two of the voluntary
euthanasia societies are gonna come

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.999
out and, uh, publicly criticize and condemn
our involvement with the death of Lisette.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.999
I think that\'s pretty disappointing
but that\'s the way it is. I was

00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:59.999
a bit surprised it was as big as it was. I
mean, it was just, it was like just a suicide,

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.999
so why is it getting front page at two front pages?
Sydney Morning Herald and the front page of the

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.999
advertiser, front page of, uh,
um, West Australia. And why was

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:14.999
that? I thought that was... I think because
she was healthy. Yeah, but a lot of healthy

00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.999
people suicide. Well, that\'s the whole point. I mean,
she was healthy \'cause everyone\'s trying to medicalize

00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.999
it. Everyone\'s trying to turn it
into a disease and that\'s, uh,

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.999
that\'s one of the things that, uh,

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:34.999
would have really upset her. It upsets me a bit knowing that she must
have been depressed or she must have had this or she must have had

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.999
that. The idea that someone just
decides that it\'s reasonable to leave

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.999
seems to distress the rest of us immensely.
Is there anything,

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:49.999
just a final question. Is there anything
as a doctor or as a person you could have

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.999
said to Lisette Nigot that may have
changed her mind medically about her

00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:59.999
concerns or worries about getting older? If she had
been a patient of mine and she had raised this

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.999
issue, I would have promised her that I would do
everything I could to care for her as she got older.

00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:09.999
I would relieve any suffering that came along. I
would minimize the symptoms. I would help her move

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.999
into some kind of institution. I would
tell her of the tragedy that I think

00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.999
has occurred here because I know of
many people who have a wonderful

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.999
few years, sometimes more than a few years,
in their 80\'s. I know some 80 year olds

00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:29.999
who are amongst the most fulfilled and
joyous and loving and loved people

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:34.999
you could imagine and it is very
sad that this lady could see

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:39.999
no future for herself at what I consider to
be a relatively young age. Hell, I hope to be

00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:44.999
more than 79 one day. And
I, okay, I couldn\'t agree

00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.999
more. [music]

00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:58.000
[sil.]

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:13.000
Uh, I can understand why
people who believe that

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.999
life is not your own, that it\'s given to
you as a gift from God and then to try and

00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:29.999
interfere with that process in any way,
such as Lisette has done, is a, is a,

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.999
a crime or a slap in the face to God.
So I guess, uh,

00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:39.999
if you believe that, um, people would
react badly to what Lisette did and we\'ve

00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:44.999
seen plenty of examples of people who reacted badly.
I guess that there\'s more to the Lisette thing

00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:49.999
though and even if you don\'t have any particular
religious beliefs, there\'s this feeling around

00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.999
that what Lisette did was to say to the rest
of the world that she doesn\'t accept the world

00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:59.999
that we value, we fight so hard,
we struggle so hard to stay here.

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.999
Irrespective of what our religious beliefs are, we
struggle to stay alive and then she comes along and

00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:09.999
says well, yeah, that\'s yours. That\'s
your business. I\'m going to go and it\'s

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:14.999
the resentment that that seems to engender
amongst the rest of us, who take it badly

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:19.999
when someone is seeming to say that, uh, that
they don\'t have much time for the game we\'re

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:24.999
playing. I think that we find that quite hard to
deal with and we don\'t have to postulate a, a God

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:29.999
for that. [music]

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:38.000
What if you\'re wrong? Well,
I\'m, I mean, I\'m sure

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.999
I\'m wrong in many ways. So what? You mean, what if there\'s
a God who really created me in his image? Well, too

00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:49.999
bad about him. He made me what I am.
So if he made me that way,

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:55.000
he must have had a reason. But I don\'t think I\'m
going to burn in hell just the same. [music]