00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:05.400
A catador, there are different ways to define a catador.

00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:09.300
I define myself as one, my family and I.

00:02:09.300 --> 00:02:16.250
My grandfather used to work collecting recyclable material from people's homes.

00:02:16.250 --> 00:02:21.250
He would collect it just like that, he would sell and buy.

00:02:21.250 --> 00:02:25.150
He would buy newspapers, bottles.

00:02:25.150 --> 00:02:29.750
At the time it was a very difficult thing to do

00:02:29.750 --> 00:02:36.120
because catadores were seen as lowlifes living on the streets,

00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:38.270
so they were difficult times.

00:02:38.270 --> 00:02:43.650
Then my father arrived, and he took up his father's job,

00:02:43.650 --> 00:02:48.750
and started working with recycling

00:02:48.750 --> 00:02:51.950
in a different way from how it's done today, obviously.

00:02:51.950 --> 00:02:58.900
But he's been in the recycling business for more than forty years.

00:02:58.900 --> 00:03:03.370
He started working with his aunt when he was seven years old.

00:03:03.370 --> 00:03:07.950
He would pull the cart up Lins de Vasconselos street, with his aunt.

00:03:07.950 --> 00:03:11.120
That's how it started.

00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:14.320
And I couldn't do otherwise,

00:03:14.320 --> 00:03:18.750
with my father being a catador, and my grandfather being a catador,

00:03:18.750 --> 00:03:21.300
it's something I like doing.

00:03:21.300 --> 00:03:24.120
In the past, when you recycled,

00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:26.050
you had to collect from the trash,

00:03:26.050 --> 00:03:28.050
and people would throw water at us,

00:03:28.050 --> 00:03:30.350
they would shout “go away from there, pigs!”

00:03:30.350 --> 00:03:33.370
“Go away, you filth! Leave the trash where it is!”

00:03:33.370 --> 00:03:35.450
and other dirty insults like that, and they would treat us really badly.

00:03:35.450 --> 00:03:43.050
Today recicladores, who used to be called recolectores,

00:03:43.050 --> 00:03:49.420
have their place in society because civil society is changing its attitude,

00:03:49.420 --> 00:03:54.020
and it's changing thanks to the work of the recicladores,

00:03:54.020 --> 00:04:00.300
and thanks to what we taught our children,

00:04:00.300 --> 00:04:03.570
and children encourage their mothers to recycle.

00:04:03.570 --> 00:04:11.670
Today we're going through a balanced process,

00:04:11.670 --> 00:04:14.920
or at least we're trying to reach the standards of developed countries.

00:04:14.920 --> 00:04:17.400
Without our work,

00:04:17.400 --> 00:04:19.570
without our direct involvement,

00:04:19.570 --> 00:04:21.900
of the material available today,

00:04:21.900 --> 00:04:26.470
one part which would be about 10% of the material, could be recycled,

00:04:26.470 --> 00:04:28.550
while the rest would go to the landfill

00:04:28.550 --> 00:04:31.570
to become trash and nothing more.

00:04:31.570 --> 00:04:38.100
We currently do 80% of the collecting of recyclable waste within our area.

00:04:38.100 --> 00:04:44.370
The remaining 20% is done by people who are not in an organization,

00:04:44.370 --> 00:04:46.950
either illegal immigrants or pirates, as we call them.

00:04:46.950 --> 00:04:52.000
We get up, go out and work collecting waste.

00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:58.400
In our homes we separate clothes from toys and books.

00:04:58.400 --> 00:05:02.200
We might suddenly find a piece of furniture and repair it.

00:05:02.200 --> 00:05:06.050
On one side, we keep fridges and kitchens.

00:05:06.050 --> 00:05:08.050
Whenever we can recycle, we recycle,

00:05:08.050 --> 00:05:14.100
otherwise, we take things apart and recycle the different materials.

00:05:14.100 --> 00:05:17.370
Some studies estimate that there are 60.000 recicladores (working in Chile today)

00:05:17.370 --> 00:05:20.870
recicladores (working in Chile today)

00:05:20.870 --> 00:05:25.800
They are responsible for supplying recycling companies

00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:28.720
with 75% of the waste material,

00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:33.120
but unfortunately their job isn't structured very well

00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:36.620
and is linked to a fairly vulnerable social class.

00:05:36.620 --> 00:05:41.900
This is mainly because most of them are not part of an organization.

00:05:41.900 --> 00:05:44.750
The material increases and decreases,

00:05:44.750 --> 00:05:47.950
and this also has a direct impact on their income,

00:05:47.950 --> 00:05:52.720
and their working conditions are very precarious:

00:05:52.720 --> 00:06:00.500
they work with tricycles, carts, they are exposed to accidents,

00:06:00.500 --> 00:06:03.200
they don't have many places where to sort waste.

00:06:03.200 --> 00:06:04.950
Most of them sort the material out in their homes,

00:06:04.950 --> 00:06:08.400
which are generally very small, with the risk of setting a fire,

00:06:08.400 --> 00:06:10.170
and this restricts their work, too.

00:06:10.170 --> 00:06:15.350
A catador is a professional like any other

00:06:15.350 --> 00:06:18.870
and what I usually say is:

00:06:18.870 --> 00:06:23.100
Why do catadores have a reputation of being poor souls

00:06:23.100 --> 00:06:28.500
who need to work, who live off recycling?

00:06:28.500 --> 00:06:32.970
In fact, we do live off recycling, but we're not poor people,

00:06:32.970 --> 00:06:38.320
we work with dignity just like any other professional.

00:06:38.320 --> 00:06:42.920
So, I'm not showing off,

00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:44.920
nor do I consider myself better than other people,

00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:47.570
but some months I earn much more

00:06:47.570 --> 00:06:54.050
than a secretary who goes to her office looking all nice

00:06:54.050 --> 00:06:56.050
and sits behind her desk.

00:06:56.050 --> 00:07:01.250
So, we work from Monday to Friday

00:07:01.250 --> 00:07:04.200
sometimes from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m.

00:07:04.200 --> 00:07:07.300
other times from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.

00:07:07.300 --> 00:07:11.200
It depends on what there is to do.

00:07:11.200 --> 00:07:17.220
We have our supply spots called "grandes geradores"

00:07:17.220 --> 00:07:22.050
which supply the material to co-operatives

00:07:22.050 --> 00:07:27.370
so that it can be recycled and sent to

00:07:27.370 --> 00:07:30.500
the right destination and avoids dispersing it in the environment.

00:07:30.900 --> 00:07:34.920
I have been in the recycling business since I was a child,

00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:38.150
but I've worked in it continuously for seven years.

00:07:38.150 --> 00:07:40.700
And since I've started up until today,

00:07:40.700 --> 00:07:43.020
things have improved a lot.

00:07:43.020 --> 00:07:48.550
I currently hold an admin position in the Cooper Glicério,

00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:55.620
so I'm not only a catadora, I hold a position within the cooperative.

00:07:55.620 --> 00:08:01.170
So catadores are professionals just like any others,

00:08:01.170 --> 00:08:04.600
and they make a huge benefit for the environment.

00:09:47.750 --> 00:09:51.250
The country was facing a big financial crisis in 2001,

00:09:51.250 --> 00:09:54.170
and there were many cartoneros, many cartoneros,

00:09:54.170 --> 00:09:57.700
there were thousands of cartoneros on the streets,

00:09:57.700 --> 00:09:58.970
until someone had the idea:

00:09:58.970 --> 00:10:00.970
“ What if we made books out of cardboard?”

00:10:00.970 --> 00:10:02.970
The raw material is available.

00:10:02.970 --> 00:10:07.370
We just need to find people who want to work

00:10:07.370 --> 00:10:08.570
and make them part of the project.

00:10:08.570 --> 00:10:10.570
Yes, I was walking by

00:10:10.570 --> 00:10:15.970
and I went in, I wanted to take a look inside so I went in.

00:10:15.970 --> 00:10:18.500
I asked to use the toilet,

00:10:18.500 --> 00:10:20.870
so I had a look all around.

00:10:20.870 --> 00:10:25.500
So I would drop in every day and talk to them,

00:10:25.500 --> 00:10:29.400
until finally one day they offered me a job here.

00:10:29.400 --> 00:10:32.570
So, we're a quite unusual publishing house

00:10:32.570 --> 00:10:39.700
which produces hand-crafted books of South American literature.

00:10:39.700 --> 00:10:44.900
These are two things which you wouldn't commonly find everywhere you go.

00:10:44.900 --> 00:10:47.350
This one was the first.

00:10:47.350 --> 00:10:51.570
Nowdays it's more common to hear of publishing houses that make books out of cardboard,

00:10:51.570 --> 00:10:53.570
but when Eloisa started out

00:10:53.570 --> 00:10:57.550
twelve years ago, it wasn't...in fact they didn't exist yet.

00:10:57.550 --> 00:10:59.150
What Eloisa did

00:10:59.150 --> 00:11:02.720
was buy the cardboard from the cartoneros

00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:06.400
at a higher price compared to the normal rate.

00:11:06.400 --> 00:11:08.050
That's how Eloisa was born,

00:11:08.050 --> 00:11:09.370
and the model,

00:11:09.370 --> 00:11:11.450
which I guess they hadn't thought

00:11:11.450 --> 00:11:13.450
would be reproduced around the world.

00:11:13.450 --> 00:11:15.170
It spread through Latin America.

00:11:15.170 --> 00:11:17.470
And then Sarita Cartonera was founded in Perù,

00:11:17.470 --> 00:11:19.370
Animita Cartonera here in Chile

00:11:19.370 --> 00:11:23.050
and today, according to a recent report by a North American researcher,

00:11:23.050 --> 00:11:26.850
there are about 300 Editoriales Cartoneras in the whole world.

00:11:27.250 --> 00:11:29.870
When we started out with Animita, one of the goals

00:11:29.870 --> 00:11:33.670
was to be a publishing house that followed the traditional standards of

00:11:33.670 --> 00:11:34.850
other publishing houses,

00:11:34.850 --> 00:11:37.200
which could compete with them not economically,

00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:39.670
but in terms of quality of the titles,

00:11:39.670 --> 00:11:41.170
quality of the work.

00:11:41.170 --> 00:11:46.620
Dulcinea is a collective mainly made up of catadores

00:11:46.620 --> 00:11:48.620
working in the Cooper Glicério.

00:11:48.620 --> 00:11:53.300
Actually, today they are catadoras, they are all women.

00:11:53.300 --> 00:12:00.770
This group's aim is an artistic production

00:12:00.770 --> 00:12:03.520
with a very genuine language.

00:12:03.520 --> 00:12:08.100
What do we do? We produce books with cardboard covers.

00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:13.770
This cardboard is the same material as that supplied by the recycling cooperative,

00:12:13.770 --> 00:12:17.470
and it's sorted out by one of the associates.

00:12:17.470 --> 00:12:19.200
The idea is for it to be widespread.

00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:24.820
People are very far from books,

00:12:24.820 --> 00:12:26.920
but this is not the only reason, there are many other reasons.

00:12:26.920 --> 00:12:29.650
However, it's sad that if people don't read,

00:12:29.650 --> 00:12:32.320
it's because they can't afford to buy books.

00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:36.770
The goal of this artistic production

00:12:36.770 --> 00:12:39.300
is first of all to provide an easy access,

00:12:39.300 --> 00:12:41.770
which means selling books

00:12:41.770 --> 00:12:45.870
at a very cheap price that anyone could afford.

00:12:45.870 --> 00:12:51.420
That's why we sell for 10/15 Reais (3/4 Euros).

00:12:51.420 --> 00:12:56.170
Our other aim is sustainability,

00:12:56.170 --> 00:13:01.720
both ecological sustainability, let's say,

00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:08.720
we are careful of recycling material,

00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:14.650
and economic sustainability of the actual group.

00:13:14.650 --> 00:13:17.270
That's why book sales contribute

00:13:17.270 --> 00:13:20.520
to raise the catadoras' income.

00:13:20.520 --> 00:13:23.950
That's why we work with other things and we don't make money out of Amanita.

00:13:23.950 --> 00:13:28.550
Only the cartoneros and the women who make the books earn money.

00:13:28.550 --> 00:13:33.670
I think the foundations of Eloisa, of the hand-craft work,

00:13:33.670 --> 00:13:38.350
of the artistic, literary and poetic work,

00:13:38.350 --> 00:13:42.200
the foundations of al this, the pillars are,

00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:48.200
once again, the cardboard workers,

00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:51.300
and those hand-crafting the books.

00:13:51.300 --> 00:13:55.350
Before working here, I used to collect cardboard

00:13:55.350 --> 00:13:57.000
I would take cardboard to sell it here, and then

00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:00.600
the coop hired me.

00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:04.900
And here I learned how to do everything, right?

00:14:04.900 --> 00:14:07.320
I learned to paint, to read,

00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:09.650
to do everything, right?

00:14:09.650 --> 00:14:12.570
To come to know books,

00:14:12.570 --> 00:14:17.970
to lay out a book, to make it,

00:14:17.970 --> 00:14:20.870
to cut cardboard...everything, right?

00:14:20.870 --> 00:14:25.770
What I like the most is painting the covers.

00:14:25.770 --> 00:14:30.070
And I think about their destination, right?

00:14:30.070 --> 00:14:34.020
We paint them here in La Boca and they go so far away.

00:14:34.020 --> 00:14:38.600
For me it's a beautiful thing

00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:43.750
because before then, before joining Ducinéia

00:14:43.750 --> 00:14:46.700
I didn't know what art and culture were, for example,

00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:53.370
I didn't know many writers nor artists

00:14:53.370 --> 00:14:57.850
and within Dulcinéa I was able to develop

00:14:57.850 --> 00:15:00.050
something artistic.

00:15:00.050 --> 00:15:04.850
For instance, I didn't know I liked painting.

00:15:04.850 --> 00:15:07.900
Cartoneros couldn't quite understand why we were paying them more.

00:15:07.900 --> 00:15:10.100
Well, of course, it suited them,

00:15:10.100 --> 00:15:12.550
but they hadn't quite grasped the idea

00:15:12.550 --> 00:15:13.850
until they saw the books.

00:15:13.850 --> 00:15:16.200
And then they understood that it was a traditional publishing house

00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:19.720
but, unlike with industrial printing presses,

00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:23.020
they were the ones making the books destined to bookshops

00:15:23.020 --> 00:15:25.520
and someone would buy what they were painting.

00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:27.970
This was very powerful to them:

00:15:27.970 --> 00:15:31.300
the idea that someone likes what you've painted and takes it home.

00:15:31.300 --> 00:15:36.520
There was the idea of someone anonymous, with no access to culture,

00:15:36.520 --> 00:15:40.800
who was suddenly chosen for how well it is painted, because it was appreciated.

00:15:42.900 --> 00:15:47.920
[What was your relationship with books before Dulcinéia?]

00:15:51.100 --> 00:15:55.150
Any, no, there wasn't any at all!

00:15:55.150 --> 00:15:59.370
My relationship with books dates back to my school days.

00:15:59.370 --> 00:16:03.900
I wasn't good at reading, and this is still the case.

00:16:03.900 --> 00:16:08.670
There wasn't any, there was no relationship.

00:16:08.670 --> 00:16:14.350
Now, my relationship with book is this:

00:16:14.350 --> 00:16:16.600
creating.

00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.920
while we make the books

00:16:19.920 --> 00:16:23.820
I might flick through something, or read something.

00:16:23.820 --> 00:16:28.600
If it's interesting I start from the beginning and read right through to the end

00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:34.320
at least I do, but before I had no relationship whatsoever.

00:16:36.920 --> 00:16:41.350
I've always liked reading,

00:16:41.350 --> 00:16:44.150
sometimes I don't have time.

00:16:44.150 --> 00:16:47.770
Duclinéia has some books that I already know.

00:16:47.770 --> 00:16:51.520
I read only a few pages of some,

00:16:51.520 --> 00:16:56.070
while I haven't read others at all, that's the way it is.

00:16:58.250 --> 00:17:02.470
I could read, but I didn't use to read.

00:17:02.470 --> 00:17:06.600
And here I've known the mountains and the see

00:17:06.600 --> 00:17:09.150
through books, right?

00:18:49.900 --> 00:18:51.950
Each group has a life of its own.

00:18:51.950 --> 00:18:58.270
I see many differences among the groups I know.

00:18:58.270 --> 00:19:04.200
Their common ground is the cover, the use of cardboard,

00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:09.600
and let's say the type of literature and novels they produce.

00:19:09.600 --> 00:19:11.850
These are the points in common.

00:19:11.850 --> 00:19:17.550
The main difference is that most of the groups

00:19:17.550 --> 00:19:21.020
are made up of poets and writers.

00:19:21.020 --> 00:19:22.600
Sometimes they are small groups,

00:19:22.600 --> 00:19:25.870
many times they are two writers

00:19:25.870 --> 00:19:30.800
in other cases they are linked to universities.

00:19:30.800 --> 00:19:33.920
They collect cardboard,

00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:40.270
some might buy it from the catadores,

00:19:40.270 --> 00:19:42.750
but this is not the case for everyone.

00:19:42.750 --> 00:19:47.000
It would be interesting to be in contact with those collecting the cardboard,

00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:53.450
but there is so much of it that you can find it outside.

00:19:53.450 --> 00:19:58.420
You go out on the street and you find cardboard, of fine quality too.

00:19:58.420 --> 00:20:07.920
You don't really need that stage of getting in contact with the cartoneros.

00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:10.320
Because not all the Editoriales Cartoneras buy their cardboard.

00:20:10.320 --> 00:20:12.920
We don't, for instance.

00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:15.970
Miguel's mother works in a warehouse,

00:20:15.970 --> 00:20:18.600
so we collect the cardboard boxes from this warehouse.

00:20:18.600 --> 00:20:20.600
I collect them from work,

00:20:20.600 --> 00:20:23.920
or if I find some cardboard on the street I bring it home.

00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:26.970
In fact, I'm taking the job away from actual cartoneros.

00:20:26.970 --> 00:20:33.600
These groups' goal is generally

00:20:33.600 --> 00:20:36.250
to publish new authors

00:20:36.250 --> 00:20:38.200
including themselves,

00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:40.550
to publish their own work.

00:20:41.620 --> 00:20:44.870
I created it out of self-interest

00:20:44.870 --> 00:20:46.870
because I wanted to self-publish my work.

00:20:46.870 --> 00:20:49.200
I've been writing texts since I was twelve,

00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:50.850
now I'm forty.

00:20:50.850 --> 00:20:53.720
I write poetic prose and poetry.

00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:59.200
My work started with the need to self-publish my work,

00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:03.500
with the need to make books as objects,

00:21:03.500 --> 00:21:06.400
in different formats.

00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:10.420
Each Editoriales Cartonera embodies their own ideas

00:21:10.420 --> 00:21:17.120
and intentions.

00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:22.370
There isn't a social nuance to it like in Argentina,

00:21:22.370 --> 00:21:27.750
so the fact of teaming up to buy cardboard, for example,

00:21:27.750 --> 00:21:33.320
I think emerges more from a need to do something about recycling,

00:21:33.320 --> 00:21:35.320
to do something practical,

00:21:35.320 --> 00:21:39.120
that is, to collect cardboard and make an object out of it

00:21:39.120 --> 00:21:41.120
starting from something that's been thrown out

00:21:41.120 --> 00:21:43.450
and who knows, maybe turn it into an artistic object.

00:21:43.450 --> 00:21:47.250
This is my goal, at least,

00:21:47.250 --> 00:21:50.100
or even just an object that can catch people's attention

00:21:50.100 --> 00:21:54.920
and wake up other people's creativity.

00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:56.920
The rest is speculation,

00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:03.320
it's putting yourself in other cartonero publishers' shoes

00:22:03.320 --> 00:22:07.570
and trying to guess why they did it.

00:22:07.570 --> 00:22:12.750
I don't know why, but every cartonera eventually comes to the same conclusion as I did

00:22:12.750 --> 00:22:17.070
which is to become a cartonero publishing house.

00:22:17.800 --> 00:22:21.270
Why were so many Editoriales Cartoneras born here, in Latin America?

00:22:21.270 --> 00:22:23.270
It has to do with the issue of censorship,

00:22:23.270 --> 00:22:25.820
it had to do with the fact that

00:22:25.820 --> 00:22:29.920
people, nowadays,

00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:32.350
are so held down

00:22:32.350 --> 00:22:38.150
by the media

00:22:38.150 --> 00:22:41.200
and by the system,

00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.700
that there are ways out where people

00:22:45.700 --> 00:22:49.020
can open up,

00:22:49.020 --> 00:22:51.020
and what's better than literature for that?

00:22:51.470 --> 00:22:55.400
The thing is that Latin America has always been characterised by

00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:57.520
the misery and poverty

00:22:57.520 --> 00:23:01.200
of most of its population.

00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:04.170
It seems to me that the cartoneros projects

00:23:04.170 --> 00:23:07.120
are the result of a period of deep

00:23:07.120 --> 00:23:12.400
economic, social and even moral crisis.

00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.000
Here the issue of literature is very tricky.

00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.720
In Latin America there is a lot of job insecurity in this sector,

00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:20.720
there is job insecurity in the cultural sector,

00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:24.970
and it's not even that strange because self-management is in our hands.

00:23:24.970 --> 00:23:28.870
There is a good self-management energy, self-management creates

00:23:28.870 --> 00:23:31.800
a different energy

00:23:31.800 --> 00:23:34.620
you can sense it, it's hard to explain,

00:23:34.620 --> 00:23:37.850
you can just feel its essence.

00:23:37.850 --> 00:23:43.270
What matters to me is for the trans-gender community

00:23:43.270 --> 00:23:53.900
to increase its chances of self-publishing

00:23:53.900 --> 00:24:02.170
and of creating its own instruments of political struggle

00:24:02.170 --> 00:24:04.670
and activism.

00:24:04.670 --> 00:24:12.500
I think Editoriales Cartoneras can bring this to the trans-gender community.

00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:15.800
In my opinion it's definitely a political movement too, it really is.

00:24:15.800 --> 00:24:17.620
It's not just a

00:24:17.620 --> 00:24:19.300
cultural and literary movement.

00:24:19.300 --> 00:24:20.720
There is a lot of subversive

00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:25.500
politics within it,

00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:28.750
a lot of energy and life.

00:24:28.750 --> 00:24:32.150
For one thing, the importance of the cartoneras is

00:24:32.150 --> 00:24:34.950
to bring books back to the street,

00:24:34.950 --> 00:24:39.450
which is something that has been lost in Chile in the past few decades.

00:24:39.450 --> 00:24:44.150
Books have become an exclusive right of trade and economy,

00:24:44.150 --> 00:24:47.620
so bringing it back to the street,

00:24:47.620 --> 00:24:49.420
to cardboard, that's saying something.

00:24:49.420 --> 00:24:53.820
A cardboard cover is a political message in itself.

00:24:53.820 --> 00:24:55.820
We are aware

00:24:55.820 --> 00:24:58.220
that we are not going to solve

00:24:58.220 --> 00:25:00.820
the issues related to Brazilian education,

00:25:00.820 --> 00:25:03.770
neither the issues related to Brazilian culture,

00:25:03.770 --> 00:25:06.120
nor, therefore, the issues

00:25:06.120 --> 00:25:09.600
related to the circulation of Brazilian literature.

00:25:09.600 --> 00:25:14.000
These are very limited and humble projects,

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.850
aiming essentially at

00:25:16.850 --> 00:25:19.950
generating a “way of doing things”

00:25:19.950 --> 00:25:23.800
in order for people to become interested

00:25:23.800 --> 00:25:25.800
in literature, for example.

00:25:25.800 --> 00:25:28.570
We are aware of our limits,

00:25:28.570 --> 00:25:31.600
so nobody in the cartoneros world can expect

00:25:31.600 --> 00:25:37.770
this project to sort out historical issues

00:25:37.770 --> 00:25:41.020
embedded within the national education and culture.

00:25:41.020 --> 00:25:44.170
It's merely a peripheral, marginal circulation

00:25:44.170 --> 00:25:46.450
which, however, is fundamental.

00:25:46.750 --> 00:25:50.400
I remember one of the first questions I was asked by some university students (in Spain)

00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:53.050
when we did our first workshop,

00:25:53.050 --> 00:25:56.220
followed by an open debate, and they asked us:

00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:59.420
“How do you manage without any funding?”

00:25:59.420 --> 00:26:01.970
and instinctively we replied:

00:26:01.970 --> 00:26:03.670
“ Because we are Latin American!

00:26:03.670 --> 00:26:05.771
We don't need to ask for funding beforehand,

00:26:05.770 --> 00:26:09.050
if we want to do something, we do it,

00:26:09.050 --> 00:26:11.950
bravely, with the guts to do it or whatever it takes,

00:26:11.950 --> 00:26:15.100
but we do it, if you have a passion, you do that, you develop it,

00:26:15.100 --> 00:26:16.650
and then you work out how it can be funded.

00:26:16.650 --> 00:26:18.650
For us this is secondary.”

00:26:18.650 --> 00:26:22.100
I think the Latin American attitude has always been a bit like that,

00:26:22.100 --> 00:26:23.500
because of a lack of resources.

00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:24.450
In Spain it's the other way round,

00:26:24.450 --> 00:26:25.820
they are so used to

00:26:25.820 --> 00:26:27.270
getting funding

00:26:27.270 --> 00:26:28.070
and resources for everything,

00:26:28.070 --> 00:26:30.370
that when they suddenly face a crisis they're stuck.

00:26:30.370 --> 00:26:33.100
This has ultimately led to a massive wave of creativity.

00:26:33.100 --> 00:26:36.370
I think it's been a very positive shock.

00:26:36.370 --> 00:26:42.520
These kinds of economic movements somehow bring about positive effects.

00:26:42.520 --> 00:26:45.000
I've seen this in Spain, where what has been done

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.320
in terms of creativity after the crisis seems marvellous.

00:26:48.320 --> 00:26:49.950
There is the topic of reading,

00:26:49.950 --> 00:26:51.270
there is the topic of recycling,

00:26:51.270 --> 00:26:53.070
there is the topic of book formats

00:26:53.070 --> 00:26:55.070
there is the topic of community work

00:26:55.070 --> 00:26:57.320
there is the topic of cooperative work

00:26:57.320 --> 00:26:59.850
which is something you learn as you go along.

00:26:59.850 --> 00:27:02.600
In other words, you start by creating cooperative work,

00:27:02.600 --> 00:27:07.350
and this I think is peculiar to Latin America,

00:27:07.350 --> 00:27:08.700
meaning people get into a group

00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:10.270
and work towards a common goal.

00:27:10.270 --> 00:27:14.770
Sometimes it costs money, especially in our current

00:27:14.770 --> 00:27:19.820
capitalistic social system, where you work to obtain something

00:27:19.820 --> 00:27:21.600
that you can profit from.

00:27:21.600 --> 00:27:24.150
In this sense, this project

00:27:24.150 --> 00:27:26.750
globally goes against all of this.

00:30:43.620 --> 00:30:49.280
Many of the people within the Editoriales
Cartoneras world are writers,

00:30:49.280 --> 00:30:50.680
it couldn't be otherwise.

00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:58.910
Writers are the best readers and at the same time
the best publishers from my point of view.

00:30:58.940 --> 00:31:02.710
We writers read a lot,

00:31:02.710 --> 00:31:05.080
and write even more.

00:31:05.370 --> 00:31:09.340
[What's literature in your opinion?]

00:31:09.340 --> 00:31:14.540
[A book, what is a book, as an object?]

00:31:14.540 --> 00:31:19.710
A book as an object is a book as an object.

00:31:19.710 --> 00:31:25.220
We're used to thinking that a book is an object

00:31:25.220 --> 00:31:27.680
with that particular shape and function.

00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:31.510
However, there are different types of books.

00:31:31.510 --> 00:31:36.880
Different publishing houses produce different objects,

00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:39.170
and each one is different.

00:31:39.170 --> 00:31:44.600
I think what makes a book produced by a
cartonera publishing house different

00:31:44.600 --> 00:31:46.710
is the peculiarity of each one.

00:31:46.710 --> 00:31:50.200
Each book is different, and you don't find this

00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:52.970
in other forms of publishing.

00:31:52.970 --> 00:31:57.940
When we talk about W. Benjamin, about a work of art losing its aura,

00:31:57.940 --> 00:32:02.220
we notice that the work [Duclinéia Catadora]
does is to give a new aura to art,

00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:06.820
because that particular item you have is different from any other,

00:32:06.820 --> 00:32:09.170
and it's very touching, very heart-warming,

00:32:09.170 --> 00:32:11.570
very nice to see that your work

00:32:11.570 --> 00:32:15.050
ends up being part of a whole process,

00:32:15.050 --> 00:32:21.680
the steps of which give value to the human being.

00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:25.310
Apart from the hand-crafted production,

00:32:25.310 --> 00:32:29.620
which is a form of extension of the human being

00:32:29.620 --> 00:32:31.740
toward the outside world,

00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:33.480
a form of osmosis with nature,

00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:36.280
I think Editoriales Cartoneras is also something else.

00:32:36.280 --> 00:32:37.710
They pass through a breach in capitalism

00:32:37.710 --> 00:32:39.200
a crack on capitalism

00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:42.110
just like a sort of glass that cracks, right?

00:32:42.110 --> 00:32:45.220
The case of the cartoneras is the link between the hand-crafted work

00:32:45.220 --> 00:32:47.620
of the covers, the human process,

00:32:47.620 --> 00:32:49.910
and the content of the inner self

00:32:49.910 --> 00:32:51.250
of the person writing.

00:32:51.250 --> 00:32:52.680
That's why I think it's interesting.

00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:56.200
The inner self expressing itself through other people's hands

00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:58.200
and not through a machine.

00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:00.200
I went there to see

00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:02.600
how [Dulcinéia Catadora] worked in its own space,

00:33:02.600 --> 00:33:05.740
when children used to make the covers,

00:33:05.740 --> 00:33:08.080
to take part in the work,

00:33:08.080 --> 00:33:10.080
and I was extremely moved

00:33:10.080 --> 00:33:13.020
by the beauty, by the magic

00:33:13.020 --> 00:33:17.970
by the possibility to create a space of sensitivity

00:33:17.970 --> 00:33:22.880
there where nobody would think it were possible.

00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:26.770
And there you see the work developing, being built little by little

00:33:26.770 --> 00:33:30.510
in a much fonder and more original way.

00:33:30.510 --> 00:33:35.220
The word market has nothing to do with culture.

00:33:35.220 --> 00:33:37.570
I think a cultural market is a paradox.

00:33:37.570 --> 00:33:39.880
Both exist,

00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:43.170
they can be together, but they can never be linked to one another.

00:33:43.170 --> 00:33:46.770
Lucia Rosa and Dulcinéia Catadora

00:33:46.770 --> 00:33:52.820
are the bridge between avant-garde Brazilian writers

00:33:52.820 --> 00:33:56.340
and young people who end up developing a passion for literature

00:33:56.340 --> 00:33:59.370
by working in the book production.

00:33:59.370 --> 00:34:01.740
This is the challenge,

00:34:01.740 --> 00:34:07.740
the fascinating vision of the Dulcinéia Catadora project

00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:12.280
and of the other projects which were ultimately tributes to it,

00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:14.600
having based themselves on Dulcinéia Catadora.

00:34:14.600 --> 00:34:18.220
The bridge between minor writers

00:34:18.220 --> 00:34:23.940
and the young population

00:34:23.940 --> 00:34:29.000
living at the margins of Brazilian free economy,

00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:32.910
young people who wouldn't have access to culture,

00:34:32.910 --> 00:34:38.510
neither to elite culture, nor to avant-garde culture, to poetry,

00:34:38.510 --> 00:34:41.620
if it weren't for the Dulcinéia Catadora project.

00:34:41.620 --> 00:34:43.620
This is revolutionary.

00:34:43.620 --> 00:34:45.340
As Majakovskij would put it:

00:34:45.340 --> 00:34:48.970
“There is no inaccessible art,

00:34:48.970 --> 00:34:53.000
there are unprepared audiences or people.”

00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:57.310
It was as if there were some flowers, but they're all underground,

00:34:57.310 --> 00:34:59.770
so you need to dig a bit,

00:34:59.770 --> 00:35:02.650
and this work is done by small, artisan publishing houses,

00:35:02.650 --> 00:35:04.080
the cartoneras.