After receiving the news of the death of her mother, Magali must travel…
Mrs. Death
- Description
- Reviews
- Citation
- Cataloging
- Transcript
View on the Pragda STREAM site
Death causes us so much fear and confusion that we can hardly look it in the face. In our antiseptic societies, pain and suffering tend to be covered up. It was not always like that. In fact, until the late 20th century, it was customary to photograph the dead in places all around the world, from the United States and Europe to Latin America. Something that today is rather unknown, had its reason for being. The representation of the deceased was a way to mitigate the sorrow of a loved one. The documentary, Mrs. Death, tries to give answers. Why has this practice fallen into disuse and is now considered as something macabre and insensitive?
Citation
Main credits
Ventayol Bosch, Sílvia (film director)
Ventayol Bosch, Sílvia (screenwriter)
Other credits
Cinematography and editing, Jordi Pol; music, Jaume Compte.
Distributor subjects
Culture + Identity; Visual Arts; Religion + Spirituality; Sociology; Body ImageKeywords
00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:26.359
When we said we wanted
to see her, it was like... uhhh
00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:29.359
But don’t you just want to let
it go and leave it at that,
00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.439
not even look at it
and forget about it?
00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:35.000
It’s not that strange,
00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:39.079
it's more common that
we would like to think.
00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:47.280
I see the beauty in it.
00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:48.959
There is something
macabre about it,
00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:51.079
seen through
our eyes,
00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:54.560
but I also see the
beauty in the macabre.
00:01:58.439 --> 00:02:01.400
An image can help us
to honour a memory,
00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:05.040
to remember the person
and also to mourn them.
00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:55.159
There are no shops in the
neighbourhood, of course,
00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:58.280
where you can buy used
or second-hand items,
00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.800
which are the shops
I like, you know?
00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:02.879
The shops where you
discover hidden treasures
00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:05.960
are second-hand shops,
and, above all,
00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:08.719
the more ramshackle
the better,
00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:11.400
because it has become
commonplace today to throw out
00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:15.319
what is actually a vintage item, so
there are highly specialised shops
00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:18.840
with everything brilliantly catalogued,
perfectly arranged by section,
00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:22.000
toys you played with as a kid,
things from the 19th century,
00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:26.080
clothes, photos,
postcards...
00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:31.280
People, in fact, have a
very different relationship
00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:33.960
with the past to the
one I have, they do.
00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:36.759
Everything that might be old, in
general, makes people afraid,
00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:39.439
like something out of
a horror movie:
00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:42.840
dolls, china dolls, are
a classic from horrors.
00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:48.199
China dolls were made
for children to play with,
00:03:48.199 --> 00:03:51.759
and that’s it, but we see
them now with other eyes.
00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:55.000
I mean, we’re giving them a
meaning that these objects
00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:57.719
did not originally have. It’s the
same with post-mortem photography.
00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:02.800
Post-mortem photography
is an act of love
00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:06.680
of family members
towards the deceased.
00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:09.919
An act of love and a
desire to remember them.
00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:24.279
Post-mortem photography began
when photography began.
00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:28.480
The daguerreotype was
invented in France,
00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:31.480
but it was used
everywhere.
00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:34.759
Really, the practice
of photography
00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:37.519
inherited what
was done in painting,
00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:40.639
and in painting there were
already post-mortem portraits.
00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:44.480
So then there was a
transitional stage, and gradually
00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:48.560
photographers began to work
out the best way of producing
00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:51.720
these kinds of portraits through
the medium of photography.
00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:12.519
I’ve had this painting for
more than forty years.
00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:15.800
It arrived in my life
with my husband.
00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:23.600
He came with all the
baggage of his family,
00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:27.519
and that’s how it
came to me.
00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:36.839
My first memory of it
is in my flat in Palma,
00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:40.759
I had it hidden in a
wardrobe, facing the wall.
00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:53.040
Because you couldn’t look
at this picture, it was so sad,
00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:58.639
it was a photo of a dead child,
and at the time I had a son
00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:02.800
the same age as the
child in the painting.
00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:09.920
A man we knew, a
friend of my husband’s
00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:13.639
who ran auctions,
to get rid of the picture,
00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:17.120
which neither
of us liked,
00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:20.560
we asked if we could
take it to auction.
00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:24.079
I don’t remember
what he said,
00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:29.279
that it wouldn’t work, in
short, another closed door.
00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:45.000
Now when I look at it,
I see more life there
00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:49.519
than I remember,
as if he had a light,
00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:52.240
more light than
he had before.
00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:04.839
This child, I think, was one of
the children of Pilar Montaner.
00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:10.439
Pilar Montaner is a painter
who had 14 children,
00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:14.879
and a couple
of them died.
00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:18.519
And this child must
have been one of them.
00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:23.639
Death was more
accepted than it is now.
00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:26.480
It’s strange now the idea
of children dying so often.
00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:34.040
Although it was
quite common,
00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:38.639
the effect must have
been the same as today,
00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:41.800
if they die today
or in the 19th century,
00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:44.439
it’s one of your
children that’s died.
00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.360
A son that disappears,
part of you that just goes.
00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:58.279
And your children going before
you, that’s hard to understand.
00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:09.360
The evolution of post-mortem
portrait photography
00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:14.680
was studied by a
North American scholar.
00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:17.480
Jay Ruby explains there
are three typologies
00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:23.920
that were developed during the
second half of the 19th century.
00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:28.120
The first was to represent the
deceased as if they were alive,
00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:34.200
in other words, sitting down,
often on a sofa or armchair.
00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:38.799
Sometimes held in
a standing position,
00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:43.600
surrounded by
the family.
00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:47.399
Sometimes with
their eyes open
00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:51.399
or painted onto
their eyelids.
00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:55.120
Always with the idea of
dispelling any suspicion
00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:59.080
that the person in
the photo is dead.
00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:05.600
The next typology
was a softer approach,
00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.240
in which it was hard to tell if
the person was alive or dead.
00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:12.159
He defines this as the deceased
as if they were asleep,
00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:16.639
so normally lying
on a sofa,
00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:21.039
with their eyes closed and
a visually softer image,
00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:25.200
but already we have
that difference between
00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.200
the vertical and the
horizontal in terms
00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.120
of the composition
of the image.
00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:35.440
And the third typology is a
clearer acceptance of death
00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:38.679
and the deceased is
photographed in the coffin.
00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:48.919
So here we have,
you could say,
00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:55.399
the bibles of post-mortem
photography,
00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:57.399
also edited
by Mr Burns.
00:09:57.399 --> 00:10:01.519
This was the book
that inspired Amenábar
00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:04.720
when he was writing
The Others
00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:07.320
for the part with the
post-mortem photography.
00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:11.080
In fact, I think that he's one of
the few people that has a copy.
00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:14.919
Some of the photos
they use are real,
00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:18.840
others have been
created for the film,
00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:21.960
because in fact Amenábar appears
in one and Mateo Gil in another
00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:27.120
as one of the deceased, so quite
a dark sense of humour and I...
00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:30.399
I was curious about
whether this really
00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:35.639
was a practice common
to the 19th century.
00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:37.879
And that was when
I started to investigate.
00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:04.879
There were three of us, a sister
and a dead brother and me.
00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:08.879
My brother had died,
he died very young.
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.240
(Put your head back a little).
00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.279
He lived for 48 hours
and of those 48 hours,
00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:23.840
I remember 15 minutes,
if I remember anything...
00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.480
But those 15 minutes
somehow marked my life.
00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:36.200
As a child I found it
very hard to understand.
00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:40.159
I didn’t know why they were crying,
why they were laughing,
00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:42.840
why they were all there…
00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:47.799
I didn’t get it. I thought
it was a christening,
00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:52.639
and the photographer had come
to take a photo of the baby.
00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.000
I went into the room
and touched him,
00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:58.200
he was already dead,
but I talked to him,
00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:00.360
I thought he
was sleeping.
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:06.200
And after all the process of
“and where is this photo
00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:08.720
and what was it, and
what can I tell her:
00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:12.200
it’s your brother who died,
your little brother who died.”
00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.960
Of course you live
with that photo,
00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:20.679
you have a relationship for
many years with a photo.
00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:47.480
Obviously you practically told
the priest at the same time
00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.440
as the photographer, because
you needed to be very quick
00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:56.600
to do this kind of photography
for physical reasons.
00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:01.799
The photographer came to
the house and during the vigil,
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:05.920
when the deceased can be
seen for the last time,
00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.519
the photograph
was taken.
00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:15.000
It usually cost three
times as much
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.880
as the same photograph
that wasn’t posthumous.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:24.680
Why? We know this because in
the adverts they put things like,
00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.559
for example, we do
all kinds of portraits,
00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:33.200
we also do post-mortem,
with a cost of…,
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:37.799
or, it costs twice
a normal portrait
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:41.839
because the photographer
was called out urgently.
00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:45.119
Some of these
kinds of adverts
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.759
can be found in North
American newspapers,
00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:51.599
and we can see these
kinds of comments
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.160
in the 19th century
of course.
00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.519
If we come
down here,
00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:20.799
besides a few books with
post-mortem in the title
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:26.240
we can see the
first photographs
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.799
that collectors
would be interested in.
00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:34.839
If the child seems to be
sleeping, in most cases…
00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:37.400
you can be sure it’s a
post-mortem photograph,
00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:39.200
like here for example.
00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:46.519
I find this one quite
interesting, for example.
00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:50.799
The price is a bit high but
I’m going to make an offer;
00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.799
I’ll offer €45.
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:01.359
Rejected automatically.
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:03.039
Ok, let’s try 50€.
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:07.759
Not that one either.
00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:14.359
So I’ll just add it to the
tracking line and leave it.
00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.599
I’ll think about it.
00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:21.200
What most puts up the
price of a photograph
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:25.480
is when there is no doubt
that the person is dead.
00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:29.000
Here the boy is dead,
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.000
because you can see it
clearly in his face,
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.240
the features change, the
eyes lose their autonomy,
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:39.759
it’s very common that
they’re cross-eyed.
00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:45.119
This is going
for €1,300.
00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:52.039
But this photo,
is… excellent quality.
00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:54.079
Ah and look,
it’s also in colour.
00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:00.279
Let’s see here, the ones
that are most expensive,
00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:03.519
oddly enough, are
the first ones to go.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:06.359
But, for example,
00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:10.319
this one is being sold
for 125 dollars,
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.319
it seems expensive
to me.
00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:15.279
This one, for example,
for what it is,
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.720
but I’m going to look to see
if there are any daguerreotypes,
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:20.880
they’re the
most expensive.
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:25.119
Because they come
with their case,
00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:29.119
a glass plate,
with finishes.
00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:35.920
For example, this person
is selling this photo
00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:38.079
as if it were a
post-mortem photograph.
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:42.079
Unless there is some kind of
information from the family
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.720
and on this photograph
in particular
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.720
I wouldn’t bet on this
child being dead.
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:52.960
I see the beauty in it,
I see the beauty,
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.640
there is something macabre
about it seen through our eyes,
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.920
but I also see the
beauty in the macabre.
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.319
I see an object belonging to
someone who had a relationship
00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:05.680
with the deceased which
I haven’t had at all,
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.559
but what it comes down
to is an act of love.
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.720
There are a lot more
photographs of children
00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:05.960
because it was more
common for a child to die.
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:08.160
And especially
because there was
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.359
a stronger emotional
impact with children.
00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:13.920
Of course there were
even fewer photographs
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:17.680
taken of children
than adults,
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:21.160
and in these cases
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:25.839
as it was a premature death,
whenever it was a child,
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:30.960
there was a much greater
need to take their photograph.
00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:40.920
For example, we might have a child
depicted as if they were an angel.
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:45.599
Sometimes a backdrop was used,
always very homemade,
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:51.400
with flowers, creating
a kind of visual illusion
00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.440
in which we
see the child
00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:58.319
as if they were levitating or
rising towards the heavens.
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:05.920
Sometimes the child was
surrounded by flowers, you know?
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:12.839
This image is like, the
child is already in heaven.
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:44.880
There are many files that
have yet to be described…
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:47.440
and also with a
subject like this,
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.519
even families from
these photographs
00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:55.440
generations down the line
don’t want people finding out
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.039
that their father
or grandfather
00:25:58.039 --> 00:26:00.559
did these kinds
of photographs
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.319
because today it would
be frowned upon,
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:06.880
and many families, on discovering
these kinds of photographs,
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:10.119
have burnt them,
they’ve burnt them,
00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:15.519
they’ve vanished,
and others haven’t.
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:19.200
So, sometimes you’re
more likely to find them
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.559
in the files of a photographer,
who kept everything,
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.640
than in the private homes
which gave these commissions,
00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:28.480
because then when relatives
saw the albums: no no,
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:31.440
not that one, and so they didn’t
keep them, they destroyed them.
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:40.960
Thanks to the
exhibition in Valencia,
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:45.279
there were the collections
of José Huguet or Portas,
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:47.559
who are among the
private collectors
00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:49.960
that gave their photographs
for the exhibition
00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:52.799
and have major
collections.
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:55.920
In other words, there are
collections that are less well-known
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:59.119
because they haven’t
necessarily been published,
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:05.079
but which allow people to find
out about these kinds of objects,
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:08.200
which are perhaps
not widely known about.
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.279
If we start looking, we’ll
find there’s a lot out there.
00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:39.759
One of the things I notice first
in the dead are their hands.
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:45.079
The hands wizen, they
get wrinkles we don’t have
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:47.599
and their position
is very unnatural.
00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:58.480
For this one they’ve set up a
mis-en-scène on a backdrop.
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.359
Look, this photo even came
with two of the child’s curls.
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:17.200
Sure, this is one of the most
unusual pieces in my collection.
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:21.480
Look, three triplets who
died at the same time.
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:28.920
Imagine what it’s like
for a family with triplets
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:30.559
and the three children
die at once.
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:34.799
This one, interestingly,
came with some information.
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:40.160
This woman was either
the aunt, it says it here,
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:43.759
we don’t know if she’s the
children’s aunt or sister,
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:46.200
but it was her who
looked after the photos.
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:58.599
When I was in Bilbao I went
into one of these shops
00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.519
that I like so much, that
has a bit of everything.
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:05.240
You know, a shop where
everything is in a jumble,
00:31:05.240 --> 00:31:06.960
piled up everywhere
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:08.960
and all the objects and
items are second hand.
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:10.720
I asked if they had
any photographs
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:12.440
and they said I think
over there in the box.
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:15.759
Then, in a box, totally out of
place, I rummaged through
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:18.759
and among other kinds of
documents there were photos.
00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:21.759
And so very patiently I
began to take them out
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.559
and I found the photo,
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:30.000
here, I think it
was this one,
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.240
I found two photos of the
same deceased woman.
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:38.680
Being post-mortem
photographs,
00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:40.680
they caught my attention
and I bought them.
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:42.799
And when the guy
saw them he said,
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:44.599
what’s going on
with these photos?
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:47.279
No, no, you had them
there in the box.
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.079
But these photos, but…
who took these photos?
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:52.359
Holy Mary, you’d have
to be a nasty piece of work
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:55.279
to take these photos, you’d have to
be a bastard to take these photos…
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:59.160
I mean, the guy saw it as
something almost vulgar.
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:03.079
And yet, as you can see on
the back of one of the photos,
00:32:03.079 --> 00:32:04.640
reading the text,
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.359
the photos were taken by
the deceased woman’s son
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:10.480
so they could be sent to her brother
who couldn’t attend the funeral.
00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:25.200
The use of photography
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:28.880
wasn’t just to put in an
album or for private use.
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:32.480
The photographs were also
taken to put on gravestones.
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:35.759
Normally these photos
were when they were alive
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:39.680
and today you can still see
this in cemeteries, you know,
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.640
but in the 19th century
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:44.839
you can see the odd
(photograph) of the dead
00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:46.599
because there
weren’t any others.
00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:49.759
An image can help us
to honour a memory,
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:53.519
to remember the person
and also to mourn them.
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:58.359
A photograph is also a
substitute for the absent body,
00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:04.119
it’s a kind of tangible space
that allows people to say
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:07.680
this is where he is,
this is where I can find
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.599
a loved one who
is no longer with us.
00:33:57.680 --> 00:33:59.920
And it’s this, you see?
The parents here are posed
00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:02.839
as parents of the child who has died
and of another who is still alive,
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:04.920
and they’re posing as
parents of an older sister,
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:07.920
because it is the view of an older
sister reacting to a younger sister.
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.960
Let’s not rob them of this moment,
let’s let them experience it too,
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:13.199
and what’s more this girl will
have a photo when she’s older,
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.199
because she most probably
won’t remember this,
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:16.599
so she’ll have this photo.
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:21.840
Parents who have a
photo of their baby,
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:24.760
who have been able to take
a photo of the newborn
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:27.800
when they were still alive
or after they had died,
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:32.360
always say they have a way
of showing the world
00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:34.920
that this child had existed,
don’t deny me this child,
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:38.320
because, look, I’m
showing them to you.
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:40.920
They are of great help
for those who have spent
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:43.719
maybe two hours with their
baby, if they were lucky,
00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:46.199
or sometimes
just ten minutes.
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:48.719
Sometimes they say, look at
your baby, and they take it away.
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:51.920
If there isn’t the physical image
it ends up being something
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:54.840
that only lives in the
memory of the parents,
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:58.960
and like all memories,
it becomes hazy,
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:05.880
gets lost, but an image
is permanent, you know?
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.480
There has been a total
change of mindset.
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:14.199
From death is a part of life,
to we don’t like death,
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:16.440
and we don’t want
to think about it,
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:18.519
and especially to
immortalise it in a photo
00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:20.760
because we really don’t like
to think that we will die one day.
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.760
So there has been a
change in culture
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:28.920
and in fashion towards
only life, happiness,
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:33.280
and death is a failure,
something we should cover up
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:37.039
and the death of a baby
is the ultimate failure.
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:40.039
What we call the umbilical cord,
the paper with the name on,
00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:44.199
the bracelet, the dummy, what
you keep from a living baby.
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:49.559
We talked about
this before,
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.000
everything the baby
has had in the hospital,
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:55.719
everything they wore or
stained, is also a symbolic item
00:35:55.719 --> 00:36:00.079
that allows them to leave the hospital
with something, not with empty arms.
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:06.760
The training, above all,
is to give a little context
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.760
of the families who do not
have a photo, how they feel,
00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:13.440
and so they see that
photos really do help
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:15.480
because the parents
themselves tell you they do.
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:19.000
So when it comes to
taking these photos,
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:22.079
above all don’t get bogged down
by the technical part of there’s
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:24.920
not enough light, or
I don’t have a good camera,
00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:29.159
but rather really focus on the fact
that these photos are for the parents,
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:32.039
they have to be taken from
the parents’ perspective,
00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:34.159
in other words, we’re not taking
a photo of a baby that has died,
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:36.000
but rather we are photographing
the son of a couple.
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:40.039
From this which has
already been edited,
00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:42.039
we go to this one
which is so nice.
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:44.599
It really changes,
doesn’t it?
00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:46.760
At the end of the day
it’s the same, but..
00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:48.400
It’s completely different.
00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:56.840
The idea would be the way it
works in a lot of places in Europe
00:36:56.840 --> 00:37:00.159
and in the United States,
Canada and Australia,
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:04.000
to have an photographers’ association,
a network of volunteer photographers
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:08.039
who are available to do this all over
Spain, or at least in different areas.
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:10.639
So you can say, if it
happens at whatever time,
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:12.639
in whatever hospital, there
is someone we can call
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:14.639
and with whom we have
a signed agreement
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:16.480
and we’ve solved the problem,
which means we don’t have to get
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:18.800
into discussions about it
every time it happens.
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:22.599
So here you see
everything there is,
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:25.760
but it’s very much like an autopsy,
it’s very descriptive but
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:29.159
when you get down to their level
you connect more easily.
00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:32.039
It’s like when you speak
to a small child,
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:34.679
if you bend down
you connect better,
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.039
well this is the
same thing.
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:39.079
You are bending down to the level
of the baby, or bending down
00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:41.760
to the level from where the
parents are seeing him or her.
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:44.480
As a spectator, from here,
there is no connection,
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:47.440
from here there is a
connection because
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:50.039
it’s how the parents see them, and
when you show this to the parents,
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:52.559
they say, that’s how I saw
him, and when someone
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:54.199
sees it who hasn’t
seen the baby,
00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:55.960
they have a better understanding
of how the parents saw them.
00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:59.280
I have decided to say, ok, as a
photographer, for the time being,
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:02.880
I’m not going to knock on
hospital doors because I think
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.880
it’ll be a long time before
you can do that.
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:09.119
But as a psychologist and
from my own experience
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:12.679
and that of other photographers
in other countries
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:18.159
that I bring over here, I tell the
people that will be there already,
00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:21.360
how to take these photos, the
importance of taking them,
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:24.199
how to present the idea to the
parents, how to accompany them,
00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:27.360
and for the moment that
is turning out quite well,
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:29.400
because they are going
to be there anyway,
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.760
they don’t have to ask anyone
from outside for permission
00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:33.480
because they are
already there,
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:35.119
everyone always has
their mobile with them,
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:36.639
the parents will
have their mobile …
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:38.280
so in the end
it’s much easier.
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.239
This photo was always
very present for my mother
00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:08.280
in all kinds of places, at
the entrance to the house,
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:13.360
where we were eating or it
was like another one of us,
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:17.719
it was always present.
00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:22.480
What happened to me,
being a little older,
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:27.159
I didn’t like it. I didn’t like
my mother telling everyone,
00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:29.039
this is my dead son.
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:32.960
When I was 14 or 15 and
my friends would come,
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:34.960
she always showed
them this photo.
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:39.079
And of course it made me feel
sad that I couldn’t understand
00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:43.039
how my mother still
enjoyed doing that,
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:49.320
thinking about that child
she had who didn’t live,
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:55.159
and I think the photo helped
her during those months
00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:58.760
she was pregnant,
a farewell in a way
00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:02.519
to what she had carried
in her belly for so long,
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:05.639
with so much hope, and
really wanting a child.
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:09.039
But when I was older
I would say to her:
00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:11.840
Why have you got a
photo of a dead child?
00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:14.159
And it was because you
liked to remember him.
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:16.159
You’re too young.
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:17.400
I was too young?
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:19.039
You don’t remember
much about him.
00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:21.559
But do you like to
see the photo?
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:24.320
Of course!
Still today.
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:27.719
Still today, eh? Someone comes
and you tell them about him.
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.440
Look at the baby I had?
You tell everyone.
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:33.480
He weighed more
than 4 kilos.
00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:39.400
What can you do,
that was his fate.
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:43.679
Even now, suffering
from dementia,
00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:47.360
she still
remembers him.
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:51.400
Her dementia is more about
the present, not the past.
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:56.000
The past still
guides her.
00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.320
He’s got his mouth
open here, hasn’t he?
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:02.280
He looks dead here.
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:04.800
But he looks
like he’s sleeping.
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:10.960
I don’t want to remember
anymore, I’ve had enough.
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:17.039
How old would
he be now?
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:19.199
Now?
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:21.679
He’d be 57.
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:28.719
I think a lot of mothers
who lose their babies,
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:32.239
and can’t see them,
it’s like a trauma
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:34.119
and they are
forever searching
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:36.199
for the child they
have never known.
00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:37.920
No one wants
to suffer,
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:41.280
everyone wants to cover up the
suffering in whatever way they can.
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:44.920
They think that if you don’t
see it, you won’t suffer,
00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:48.760
but you suffer just
as much, if not more.
00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:44.280
I accompanied this
family to the hospital.
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:45.960
On other occasions
00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:48.119
I’ve had to accompany
families to the funeral home
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:49.559
they hadn’t taken
photos in the hospital
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:51.559
or didn’t have the
option at the hospital,
00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:53.880
but at the funeral home
you can take photos too.
00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:56.800
I have also had to edit
photographs of autopsies,
00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:59.599
because parents who
have no image of their baby
00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:02.679
and they end up thinking, and
what if they took one at the autopsy?
00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:04.800
It will be my baby,
I’ll be able to see him.
00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:07.960
And then they ask them.
They are very cold photos,
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:11.159
with very little love in them,
not childlike at all.
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:22.199
This couple called me when their
baby was going to be born dead
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:26.480
and they asked me to go
with them, Rocío and Raúl.
00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:29.800
They were a couple
that knew exactly
00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:32.480
what they wanted to do
with their baby girl.
00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:36.039
They said our baby
will be born without life,
00:51:36.039 --> 00:51:38.400
but we want to do
things with our daughter,
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:40.840
and one of those was
to take photos of her.
00:51:41.400 --> 00:51:44.559
And they were very sure
about it because the same thing
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:47.440
had happened to them
about a year or so before.
00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:50.480
Their first pregnancy went in
exactly the same way,
00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:54.679
they had the same prognosis,
that the baby won’t make it,
00:51:54.679 --> 00:51:56.880
she has a genetic
problem…
00:51:58.599 --> 00:52:02.239
And in week 20 they told them
to start dealing with the idea
00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:04.480
that the pregnancy
wouldn’t work out.
00:52:05.079 --> 00:52:07.239
They got pregnant again and
the same thing happened,
00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:11.159
in week 20 they gave
them the same prognosis,
00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:15.000
the same likelihood that this
baby girl wouldn’t make it.
00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:18.559
But then what
did they do?
00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:20.559
They said. This time
will be different.
00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:23.559
Now everything we didn’t
do with the first, we’ll do now,
00:52:23.559 --> 00:52:25.880
because this pregnancy
doesn’t end when they tell you
00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:27.440
that this baby
won’t make it.
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:30.639
The pregnancy, while we are
pregnant, we’re pregnant.
00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:32.800
So they told her this
just after week 20
00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:34.480
and the baby was
born in week 27.
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:36.199
7 weeks later.
00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:49.159
The first time, with Iris, she was
sure right from the beginning
00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:51.760
that she wanted to see
her and take photos,
00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:57.519
and for me when she
first told me it was like…
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:01.440
it wasn’t that I thought
it was wrong,
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:04.719
but you are experiencing the
pain that you’re going to lose her
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:07.000
and it’s hard to
assimilate that.
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:11.800
It took me one or two
days to think about it,
00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:15.519
but then I was
sure about it too.
00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:24.199
It’s a very painful moment,
you’re not well
00:53:24.199 --> 00:53:28.840
and haven’t got the head to think
clearly, calmly and logically.
00:53:33.719 --> 00:53:38.679
If at that moment you decide
you don’t want to see her,
00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:41.079
you don’t see her,
00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:43.639
they take her to the funeral
home or the morgue…
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:50.360
and so we took
a photo, a selfie
00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:53.000
with our mobiles
as best we could.
00:53:55.400 --> 00:53:58.960
And it’s one of the few
photos we have of her.
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:06.519
What happened with
Iris happened again,
00:54:06.519 --> 00:54:08.199
but with Nadia,
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:14.519
because we had had the
experience of being with Iris,
00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:18.519
and that’s why we contacted
Norma and we asked her
00:54:18.519 --> 00:54:22.440
if she could take photos,
because with Iris we took them
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:30.039
and with Nadia we didn’t want to
waste time taking a decent photo,
00:54:30.039 --> 00:54:33.320
so we said if
Norma agrees…
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:39.400
They contacted me to ask if as
well as going to the hospital
00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:42.599
for the stillbirth, if I could take
some photos of them pregnant.
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:49.119
We did the photo shoot of the
couple pregnant on a Thursday
00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:51.320
and the baby was born
dead on the Monday.
00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:54.639
But in the photo shoot she
was alive, she was there.
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:57.400
It’s very strange to have a couple
who have the same thing
00:54:57.400 --> 00:55:00.559
happen to them and without
anyone from outside
00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:04.480
who can offer support and say:
you can do this or the other,
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:09.320
and before the baby dies you
have time to do things with her,
00:55:09.320 --> 00:55:12.119
you can be their mummy and
daddy while she is still alive
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:14.280
and when she is born dead
you can also be with her,
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:17.639
you can dress her. If no
one tells you all that,
00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:20.239
it’s unlikely the couple
will think of it
00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:22.639
who have just been
given the news
00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:26.559
that their baby is dead
or won’t make it,
00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:31.400
but when it happened again,
the only positive thing
00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:34.960
they could do to form
a bond with this baby
00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:37.440
was everything they
couldn’t do with her sister.
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:40.199
But of course, we can’t
hope for it to happen twice
00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:42.719
But so we have these
tools to hand.
00:55:54.880 --> 00:55:57.840
These are
Norma’s photos
00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:00.159
The little feet.
00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:06.360
We had asked the
hospital permission first,
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:09.440
and it really shocked them that
we wanted a photograph here,
00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:11.360
Why? What do
you mean?
00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:13.719
To start with they thought
it was very complicated,
00:56:14.679 --> 00:56:18.559
almost impossible,
and macabre.
00:56:18.559 --> 00:56:21.920
Because we
weren’t family.
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:25.079
They told us it would be
ok if she was family,
00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:28.360
but because
Norma wasn’t.
00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:31.480
She had to sign
a form to say...
00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:33.599
We gave Norma
authorisation.
00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:37.880
The hospital logo
couldn’t be in the photo
00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:42.400
and other things to
do with confidentiality,
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:45.519
but when she arrived,
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:51.599
I asked her to come in with us,
and she was with us at the birth.
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:55.199
Even when it looked like
the baby was about to come,
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:58.519
the doctor wanted to throw
her out, and Rocío said no:
00:56:58.519 --> 00:57:01.280
Norma’s staying here,
Norma’s staying.
00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:07.559
The idea of the photo is
simply to have a memory,
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:10.840
just as when your father
or grandfather dies
00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:14.960
you have photos of their lives
and you don’t hide them away,
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:19.079
it’s the same with our daughters,
it’s just that unfortunately
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:22.840
we haven’t been able to
spend more time with them,
00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:27.320
but these photos are the only
moment we had to hold them,
00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:30.599
and that’s why
we wanted them.
01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:24.519
Jamie (mum) and Niguy (dad)
make the most of their time
01:00:24.519 --> 01:00:28.280
with their daughter Janii, in
the hours before her death.
01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:36.599
Jessica and Geoff hug their
dead son, Shiloh, for the first time.
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:39.519
Carolyn and Brian hug Ana
while Liam reads a story to her.
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:42.039
In the farewell,
her grandparents
01:00:42.039 --> 01:00:44.280
and other brother, James,
are also present.
01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:48.639
Hemalatha and Anand deal
with the loss of their baby,
01:00:48.639 --> 01:00:51.880
Vijay, who was born
prematurely.
Distributor: Pragda Films
Length: 61 minutes
Date: 2021
Genre: Expository
Language: Catalan; Spanish; English
Grade: High School, College, Adult
Color/BW: /
Closed Captioning: Available
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