WEBVTT

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[music] M. Y. N. A.

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M. E. I.S.

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C.A.M. My name is Cam.

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I use this machine to speak. I was

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about 17 when I first became aware
of my own sexuality. I find

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it difficult to talk to most of the female
staff about sex because they become

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embarrassed and don\'t want to know about it.
They change the subject and hope it will go

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away. Eventually I asked a male
staff member if he could take

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me to a brothel for sex. Hi Cam.

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I\'m Lucy, how are you? Do
you want to come this way?

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The first time I went to the Daily
Planet, I was very nervous. This is

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a funny story. I was in the bedroom with
the girl and my bad hand got caught up

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in her hair. I pulled her hair off. She was

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wearing a wig.(crosstalk) One, two. She
was very embarrassed but she started

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laughing (crosstalk)(inaudible)

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Oh God. and I nearly wet myself laughing.
It was a good

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way to break the ice. After
that the sex was great.

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Whoah. It costs

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$120 for thirty minutes if
I go to the Daily Planet

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so I can only afford to
go about once a month. I

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would prefer to have sex with a girlfriend
because it is very expensive to go to

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the Daily Planet every time you feel horny.
Are you comfy now?

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[music] People with disabilities need to come
out, the way the Gay Rights movement have.

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I\'d even like to see us have our own Mardi
Gras. We need to be proud of our sexuality.

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We need to flaunt it and so do the community.
Hey, you know, we are proud of who we are.

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When I was younger,

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I thought that I would never have sex because I
thought that I\'d never find anybody that would want

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to have sex with me. I didn\'t even
know whether I could or I couldn\'t.

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[sil.] Well, I became a paraplegic at the
age of 15, erm, I had a motorcar accident.

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We had one of those freak accidents,
it was a, a tyre blowout. The car hit

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the tree. Erm, my mother was
killed in it and my Dad, er,

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fractured his three ribs, broke his
knee, broke his hip and it was a very

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traumatic thing because I
lost my mother out of it.

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I come from a, a European

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background and we weren\'t supposedly bought
up to have sex before we were married.

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Erm, so I, at 15, as well, ahm, no I didn\'t

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have sex.

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The first time was, er, with my

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ex-husband and it was like
a hit and miss. I, he

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wasn\'t quite sure and I wasn\'t quite sure whether
it was all going to work out. But I mean, it did,

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, erm, I suppose I thought that I would have
to do it in a different way or whatever.

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I can guarantee you I don\'t. I do it
the same way as everybody else, erm,

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and I was very reluctant in having
sex because I was scared that

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I wouldn\'t please him or I wouldn\'t get pleasure out
of it. Well, ten years later, I can tell you, the man

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certainly was pleased. And I was pleased
too and we both got pleasure and, erm,

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we enjoyed it and we had a ball.

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[sil.] When I first started to go out,

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maybe a year or so back, or maybe two years ago.
When I started to go out socially, going out

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dancing, or. The first impressions
is, erm, they used to just look,

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thinking, \"Gosh, she\'s out. She should be
at home.\" They don\'t expect people with

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disabilities or I don\'t even know what you want to call
them but they don\'t expect that we go out, have a good

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time. They expect us just to stay home.

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[sil.] When I was, turned 30, I was in
America with my sister and I went to

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lingerie shop. And I\'d always wanted to go to a lingerie shop but
I\'d always felt, look, I\'d walk in and people would just burst into

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laughter and say, \"Sweetheart, we can\'t put a body
like yours in anything like this.\" And I felt

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like I\'d feel really daggy if I, you know, had like. And I was
always intrigued with things like, you know, nippleless bras

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and crotchless undies and things like that. And I thought
I can\'t spend the rest of my life in \"Cotton Tails\",

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which I never wore anyway, but I wanted to, to find
that out but I was terrified that, that people would

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just burst into laughter. Because I\'d internalised
this thing of my body wasn\'t worthy of this stuff.

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And I love silk, you know, and, and
I went into this place and it was

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like there were women of every single size. It was
like there were women who were really big and,

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and round and, and really thin women and
tall women and someone just, and, erm,

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I mean the attitude was just like, you know,
come in, and, and that was fantastic and

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I bought, you know, like lots of silky stuff, and, and
it was just like, this is how I want my life to be.

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I want to actually own and like my
body and not feel like I have to

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apologize or, or hide or protect it.

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[music] I was in, er, the States once
and I, I met this girl who was quite a,

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a religious type of, of girl
or, as it, as it turned out

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and she was sort of hinting towards me,
about, you know, my sexuality but wasn\'t so

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open about it. I turned round to her and I said, \"Ah, just
because my legs doesn\'t, don\'t work doesn\'t mean my dick

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doesn\'t work.\" And she slapped me across the face,
so that was the end of that, that conversation, so.

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I was on the way

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up to, er (ph) Throughbar. I,
er, had to put chains on the

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car or I didn\'t, my friend that
was with me did. And she\'s out

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there, putting on the chains and there\'s
this car that pulls up behind us.

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We\'re out in the middle of nowhere,
in, you know, Hicksville. And,

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er, as these guys are walking up, I lean out of the window
and said, \"Come on, woman. For God\'s sake, hurry up\",

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you know and, er, and this
guy just sort of looks and,

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and explains to my, to my friend, \"You know,
what\'s, what\'s he doing in there? He\'s,

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you know, why isn\'t he helping you? And, and she didn\'t
quite understand his heavy Australian accent, she was

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French. And, er, and he
walks up to the car and

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he\'s about to give me a bit of curry. And
he looks inside the car and he said, \"Ah,

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you one of them cripples, are you, mate?\"

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Sometimes I use a, a bit of a line, er,

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, er, towards a girl if, er, you know, I\'m finding
her attractive or whatever. I say, \"Oh my tyres

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are getting hard\" or whatever else, so er.
Yeah, I, I, you know, I

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generally attack, you know, my everyday
life with a little bit of humour. I always

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have and I think that that makes people relax
a little bit more and, and brings, it brings

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down the barrier a little bit.

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[music]

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[music]

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[sil.] When I was 21, I
was racing motorcycles,

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erm, overseas and I got injured in a racing
crash in England and broke my spine.

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After the accident, I think, you know, the first thing
that struck me was, well, you know, why me? I mean,

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of everyone in the world, why, why me?
Erm, to be disabled was almost worse

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than being dead. The nature of
my disability, I get a lot of

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muscle spasm, erm, in my lower legs and
that sort of stuff. And, er, in the old

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days it used to be treated with Valium, which to some
degree works. It actually, sort of controls muscle spasm,

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after a while and then, you kind of, er, then
the dose has to go up and up and up. I think we

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were wondering round on about 40, 50 milligrams of
Valium a day and that went on for about 16 years,

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you know. This, compounded with sort of drinking
alcohol and that sort of stuff, I mean, it was

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pretty hard to get a real good firm grasp on the world because
it was, kind of, kept passing you by every now and then and you,

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you wouldn\'t get upset about anything. You wouldn\'t get
happy about anything. You sort of stayed at this tch level,

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level playing field. (ph)
Murray, you dickhead.

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Ah, amazing.

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When I first asked about sexuality, why, I think
we bought it up talking about reproduction,

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about having babies and that sort of stuff and \'cause
back in those days you didn\'t just come out and say,

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you know, \"What\'s my sex life going to be like? We were
a bit more delicate about it in, in those days and, er,

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I was, I asked the, er, the charge
sister in the ward I was on and, er,

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I remember really clearly. I got yelled at.
I got absolutely hollered at and got told

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to, um, \"keep my mind above my navel and concentrate
on my rehabilitation and I might get somewhere

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with my life.\" And that was, that was that.

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[music] Ahm, over the years,
I\'ve given a lot of talks

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through the education department through, er,
various schools and one of the questions that,

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um, that always comes up, particularly
with primary school children is,

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um, do I have a girlfriend?
And if, how do you make love?

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And I think that\'s a fantastic question
because littler kids or younger kids

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really ask questions that adults always
want to know but too embarrassed to ask.

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I think, you know,

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vision is not a requirement of having
a successful, a sexual interaction

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with somebody. When you\'re
talking about, er, flirting or

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making a move or what to do
I, I think it, you can be

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a problem being, um,
blind because you can\'t

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get those, I believe, eye cues, you
know, eyes can tell you a lot.

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And the next one of the disadvantages,
I think, you may not be able to, um,

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focus on. So, you have to
use other strategies and

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in my case, I always make, er, wait
for the other person to make a move.

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[sil.] Going through a, to a
blind school, we had, um,

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sex education and but that
was very basic nature

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and you know, the sexual, um, world is much

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broader than just, erm, heterosexual.
It\'s a much

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broader issue than just focusing
on reproduction. I have

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trouble calling myself disabled because I don\'t
feel that disabled. But anyway, I suppose,

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according to the federal government,
I am 44% disabled and walking, erm,

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along with my knee brace and currently
my girlfriend, erm, who, er,

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cross-dresses. Er, people don\'t know
what to look at. They don\'t know

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what, whether to look at
her, what gender she is,

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, erm, my leg brace, the fact two women are
holding hands. I mean, they look at you

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and they look, they see a young person anyway and you\'ve got
to remember when you\'re walking round with disability, um,

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you are reminding people of their own
mortality. I think having had a relationship

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with a woman with a disability, I felt like
it was the first time I didn\'t have to

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explain anything. It\'s
like, well, to, to be

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attracted to someone else and to see another woman
with a disability naked is also confronting

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to me in terms of my own
perception about me being naked.

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Erm, on the other hand, I\'ve also
had, erm, my current relationship

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is with a, a man who doesn\'t have
a disability and it\'s been really

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fantastic, you know, being
like talking to him about

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that and seeing his changes in, in
understanding or trying to imagine

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what it is like from my perspective.

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One

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of the problems, the significant
problems that most men face following

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a spinal injury and women too,
I guess to some extent is, er,

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kinda the initial loss of sensation. It\'s the
kind of pins and needles thing, floating on air

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and, um, certainly with a lot of guys.
In the very early weeks

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of their, their trauma, they\'re sort of saying, what am I going
to do about sex, I mean, particularly if you\'re a young guy

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and you, you know, you might have spent, sort of up to
25 years of your life, sort of living and dreaming,

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you know, erm, sex in the conventional sense, sort of
thing. It\'s how you were taught to do it. It\'s how your

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mates talk about doing it in the school yard, you know, and
if you had any sexual education of your parents, it\'s kind of

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how you learnt to do it. It\'s a natural normal,
you know, Christian, Australian thing to do,

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erm, and suddenly, you know, this isn\'t
happening any more. It was a big knock for me,

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er, to you know, er, not

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get an erection at, at first and to, to
think, well, shit, you know, how am I going

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to go now. What\'s going on here and I
remember, er, I started to get erections

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here and there and it was all pretty uncontrolled.
And sometimes it was pretty disastrous and

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I learned of this technique to, er, to get
a reliable thing happening. And I went

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to visit this doctor and, and he said,
to me, well, you can shoot off now

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and you, you know how to deal with it
and whatever and I remember driving

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up Bell Street for the first time and
I had this, er, full-on erection

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that I hadn\'t had for six years and I remember
driving down the street and turning round and going,

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with this big smile on my face. And, and
it ended up that, er, I could maintain

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an erection for about four
hours and, er, and so the boys

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have, you know, spread out a bit of
words and, and, er, it was quite

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funny because I had, er, on one
particular weekend, er, about five girls

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come up to me but, that I knew
from the ski resort. And,

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you know, oh is this true? Whatever happens? Yeah,
so that, er, was, er, that was quite humorous.

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Four hours? It seems that
some of the research, er,

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has indicated, erm, and this was certainly my case.
That when you lose sensation in one part of the

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body, your, or any thing, skill in one
part of the body, um, er, you have

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what\'s called a dominance transfer and you, and
you for instance you kinda lose your balance

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initially in a wheel chair and all of a sudden, your balancing
skills get really good. Likewise, when you lose sensation,

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you find that the bits that are left are actually a
bit more sensitive than what they used to be. Um,

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sensation and that type of stuff is just
generally heightened in some areas, so

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the, the actual genital
sensation, um, can be amplified

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into another area, another sensitive area of the
body. Ever wonder why Bob Hawke does this, you know?

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Yeah, obviously I\'ve had
to, er, open myself

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up to new areas to, to
fulfill my own desires,

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erm, the predicament I\'m in now or, or my
situation, obviously, I can\'t do doggy style

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any more. I can achieve, er, orgasm or my

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type of orgasm, erm, without
it but, yeah, it\'s just a

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different feeling. It\'s basically,
er, another option for me, I have

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quite a few options actually and I, it\'s, it\'s,
it\'s a funny thing, the, er, human body, like

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the back of my neck now, the back
of my arms, I\'ve got spots that are

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just like unbelievable now,
like really out of this world.

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There are parts of my body
that are very very, er,

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sensitive. Erm, also I don\'t
know what it\'s like to feel

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sex before, because I
never had it, so maybe

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as the saying goes, \"what you
never had, you never miss\".

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[music] Er,

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I think it\'s a lot to do with your mind
too because if you feel it in your mind,

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then you feel it in your body.
Erm, watching, er, a man

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do whatever he\'s going to do on parts
of my body where I can\'t feel, takes

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place, the actual feeling of
the sensation of his hand

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or whatever on that part of my body.
So by visual effects,

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I suppose I get the same
sort of stimulation that,

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erm, a woman, who has fulfilling, gets.

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[music]

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[music]

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[music] I did hear of one
social worker that was

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so disheartened with the frustration
that he saw in the eyes of his clients

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that he would actually help some
of his clients relieve themselves

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physically but he stressed to
his clients that it was just

00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.999
that. It was a physical act, there was
no emotion involved, but even then

00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.999
he, he knew the risks he was taking.
He, he would have lost his job if

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.999
it was found out what he was doing, how he was helping
these people. He\'s helping them in the most intimate,

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.999
caring and necessary way but there\'s
no room in the law or in the medical

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.999
ethics or in, especially
when religion gets involved.

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:19.999
And religion plays a huge part in our, you know,
health industry in Australia. The abusive

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.999
situation can develop and it
does, but it\'s all, it\'s all a

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:29.999
symptom of one thing that is essential and
that is we are not addressing sexuality.

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.999
Because we live in a highly sexualised society. A lot
of people run around choosing, saying, \"No, we don\'t,

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:39.999
no, we don\'t\", but it\'s
everywhere, it\'s everywhere.

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:48.000
[music] I develop products for
people with, erm, very limited

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:54.999
mobility in their hands and, er,
vibrators are not very easy things if

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.999
you don\'t have the dexterity available
to you. Erm, and that was fine, I could,

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.999
erm, develop different hand controls
so people could turn them on and off

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.999
but we still had the problem with
the batteries. Erm, I\'d put in

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.999
some batteries, you always ran the risk of the
damn things switching on during postage, though.

00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:19.999
But, erm, I mean I\'d install sort of
long-life batteries and just keep my fingers

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.999
crossed and then try and encourage some of my
clients to build up a relationship with someone

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:29.999
close enough to be able to get their batteries
changed. It\'s extremely difficult for someone

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.999
who\'s been, er, disabled from birth
to actually go through the normal

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:39.999
kind of mating processes of
meeting people and having

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.999
privacy. Privacy is sort of the major issue.
Choice is a major issue and er, perhaps,

00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:49.999
someone who\'s, who\'s been disabled from
birth might not have that freedom, er,

00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:54.999
that institutional type care can, can, erm,

00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:59.999
inflict upon you. Freedom of
choice and freedom of privacy.

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.999
What do you think of this one?
I like it. It\'s good,

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.999
isn\'t it? Yes. I am 34

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.999
years old and

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:19.999
I\'ve been struggling for

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.999
13 or 14 years

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.999
to get everything right. Because

00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.999
with me, I want to be a woman and

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.999
the place where I live

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.999
told me I cannot wear dresses, skirts.

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.999
I got told if I wear

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.999
any skirts

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:59.999
or dresses I\'ll be out on my ear.

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.999
It\'s nice, isn\'t it? Do you want to go try
it on? Yes please. OK. Let\'s go try it on.

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.999
I got told it\'s not right for me

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.999
or anybody like me

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.999
to be around.

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.999
Now I\'m

00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.999
trying to get that changed. I\'m trying to get that changed
now. Well, I was almost 20 when I decided to leave

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.999
home and I had a social worker come and
suggest looking at the (ph) Uallabor

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.999
annex. It was still in operation at
the time and I went in there and

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.999
basically I just asked about privacy. There were
huge signs up on the door saying, you know,

00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.999
\"No visitors past, you know, this
door and everyone must leave by 10

00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:54.999
o\'clock. And, I just enquired about, you know,
\"Hey, what\'s going on, why can\'t I have

00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.999
a partner in my room and it was like, erm, you
know, I will not have this place like, run

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.999
like a red light district. You know
that, the whole attitude about, er,

00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:09.999
you know, you, you can go somewhere else if you
want to do that sort of thing, but you know,

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.999
you\'re definitely not
doing it under our roof.

00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.999
[music] I was approached

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.999
quite a few times by families,
parents, relatives of people

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.999
suffering from, erm, mental disability.
There was one, one

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.999
mother in particular that used to buy,
buy her son a different brand of doll

00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.999
on average, generally, about once every
three months. And that was his doll,

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.999
his doll stayed in his room, erm,
for his special times by himself

00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.999
and that worked very well.
It meant that he didn\'t,

00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.999
erm, show any behavioural problems,
as they would call them,

00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.999
sexual behavioural problems
outside of that private space.

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.999
Got another one?

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.999
Tess, come on. I think one
of my experiences, and

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.999
I imagine it\'s probably quite common,
with, with women with disabilities

00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.999
is that, yeah, they\'ve been
times where people who, and men

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.999
who, erm, I have thought were attracted
to me actually had quite strange,

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.999
erm, motives. It was as if, and a friend

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.999
actually said to me, she thought that men would find me
attractive because it would be like having sex with a kid,

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:39.999
you know, a young girl. And I thought that was
outrageous, I mean, it was an awful thing to say.

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.999
It was an awful thing to hear and then it was
like, well, you know, erm, it was like another

00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.999
barrier just, erm, just went up.
And I think I had a sense

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:54.999
that people would either use me,
erm, not like want to have sex, but

00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.999
not want to have a relationship and, and my
understanding from that was as, it was as if

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.999
I was a curiosity or I was an
embarrassment, erm, I would be

00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:09.999
the type of woman who you\'d want to fuck
but not, not, erm, not have a relationship

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.999
with.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:23.000
[sil.]

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.999
Well, initially I felt uncomfortable; I
was concerned about peoples\' response.

00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.999
I was concerned about, even people I worked
with being known where I worked, I was going

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.999
out with a disabled person. I
had this image issue. Erm,

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.999
so I was almost living a life whereas I was
perfectly comfortable with, in Ingrid\'s company and

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.999
enjoying her company, feeling really good about
our developing friendship but there was this

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.999
almost social stigma, that I don\'t
know where it came from and it was

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:25.000
quite irrational. But, that sort of made
me uncomfortable being in public places.

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.999
My family\'s very supportive but
there still is that, um, that

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.999
thing of maybe one day she won\'t get married.
Ah, they call me (ph) dester daughter

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.999
which means stubborn head. So, if there\'s
something that, erm, they think I

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.999
can\'t do, they know that I\'ll do it. Like if
they say something, \"You can\'t do that\". I\'ll

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:39.999
say, \"do you want me to prove it?\"
Yeah, in relation to, erm, boys

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.999
or relationships they\'d like
me to have a relationship

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.999
but they, they don\'t think that it would
be possible. They don\'t see that,

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.999
um, I think because they see my disability.
It\'s very hard to

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.999
ignore because you do see my disability but I
think it\'s also \'cause they don\'t see me relating

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.999
to people, um, the opposite sex
so they don\'t know that it

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:09.999
is, it is possible. They don\'t know that
there\'s other people with disabilities in

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.999
relationships or that they\'re married, but I\'ll
prove them wrong, \'cause, you know I\'ve been in

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.999
relationships and hopefully one day,
I\'ll be in a permanent relationship.

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.999
I think the chair has put on a lot, put in
front of me a lot of barriers when it comes

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.999
to having relationships with men because,
erm, I don\'t think that I\'m an ugly

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.999
person or an unattractive
one, erm, but, I, with one

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.999
particular man who was a very
very attractive man what I

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.999
call centrefold material.
Erm, his problem was his

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.999
family and his friends. His mother just couldn\'t believe
that here, here was this very good-looking man,

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.999
very, ahm, er, very, he had

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.999
a very good physique about him, that he could
go out with someone who was in a wheelchair.

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.999
She automatically thought that there must have been something wrong with
him. Erm, his friends used to say to him, you know, what do you go out

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.999
with her for? Er, my husband had the
same problem as well. Erm, his friends

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.999
when they found out that his girlfriend was in a
wheelchair used to say to him, \"What\'s wrong with you?

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:19.999
How come you go out with her?\"

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:28.000
[music] I definitely think that

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.999
woman are, are, you know in a worse situation because,
erm, I think there\'s a lot more men out there

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.999
that, that, er, you know, a woman
is, is just, a, a bit of an

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.999
accessory. A bit of a, a, a, I don\'t know
whether you call it a fashion accessory or

00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.999
whatever and er, there\'s, there\'s
certain men out there that, that need,

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.999
you know, that little accessory on the side
and, and if it\'s in a wheel chair it\'s not so,

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:13.000
er, glamorous an, an accessory. Er, yeah, I
had a big problem with body image, with the,

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.999
with the handbag scenario. Of what
will people think of me being with a

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.999
disabled person. Will they think
I\'m either a saint or a desperado,

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.999
which I\'m neither. I mean, people walk up to, and they say,
\"Oh, you\'re wonderful, looking after this person.\" And I

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:48.000
say, \"Crap, you know, live with me.\" I

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.999
see that, in fact, there
is, erm, a very strong

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.999
kind of hierarchy that our society
imposes upon women with disabilities

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.999
and to me, my experience
of that was that there was

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.999
almost a rating of who you
have, erm, a relationship

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.999
with. It\'s like, well, if you score and I don\'t
believe in it but I see it and I battle with

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.999
it. That if you have a relationship with an able-bodied
man, well, it\'s like you\'re as normal as you

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.999
will ever be able to get. And it\'s
almost like our sexuality is threatening

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.999
because it\'s, erm, it challenges
notions of beauty, about,

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.999
about relationships, about power,
about erm, attraction, about

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.999
reproduction. I mean, there\'s a whole gamut
of things that is quite threatening.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:53.000
[music] I haven\'t had children. Erm,

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.999
I think part of the thing about being disabled.
It\'s a fairly hedonistic sort of existence

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.999
particularly in the early days when it was just,
kinda, swimming violently to keep your head

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.999
above water, just to survive. And a couple
of times, I kinda explored the option

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.999
of having kids and that sort of stuff but it was
just never really there. It was never there

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.999
as a pressing sort of spontaneous issue.
Erm, it was like what I was doing,

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:54.999
the life I was living was kind of a certain
brave new world concept about it, that, er,

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.999
you know, just surviving,
it was, was the important

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.999
element. And it\'s kinda like the old cartoon, \"My God, I
forgot to have children.\" You know, that sort of stuff and,

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.999
yeah, maybe that\'s it.
I have a stepdaughter

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.999
by my current, er, marriage, erm, she\'s
a great pride and joy to me, you know

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.999
and, er, I think of her as my child.
But, but er,

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.999
having babies has never been
really a major issue. If I,

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.999
um, became pregnant there would
be 50% chance of my child,

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.999
erm, being short statured. And
there\'s a lot of, erm, views, very

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:39.999
powerful views, erm, that I\'ve encountered
at different times in my life

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.999
around that being really negative.
You know, that my, me having, erm, a

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.999
child, who might be short is actually,
um, a negative thing. And I find

00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:54.999
that that\'s probably, at this point in
my life, the hardest thing to reconcile

00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:59.999
because I actually feel good
about myself and I feel that

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.999
being short isn\'t a bad thing. And that
if I actually had a short statured

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:09.999
child that there would be lots
of things that I would be,

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.999
you know, that, that there would be positive around that.
There would be, it would be positive to have a baby

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.999
who was short. I mean, it would be positive to
have whoever popped out, is how I really see it.

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.999
But there\'s a lot of pressure,
erm, at a societal level and,

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.999
erm, and closer around that that\'s actually
really wrong. And that, that for me to be a

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.999
responsible woman I need to either not have
children or I need to adopt them. And, er,

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.999
I find that a very hard thing to

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:48.000
reconcile because for me to believe in that is
actually saying that there\'s a part of me that\'s bad.

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:53.000
[music] Yeah, I had such a low self-esteem when I was
younger that I just felt like a blob in a wheelchair.

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.999
And, and, you know, being rejected by a few guys
that made me feel like I would never attract

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.999
an able-bodied person.

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.999
[sil.] I fell in

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.999
love for the wrong reasons. I married for the
right reason, I was in love, erm, but I fell

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.999
in love for a lot of the, the wrong
reasons. One of them was that, erm,

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.999
really felt like I had to prove myself,
you know, as a woman I guess because

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.999
after a couple of really severe rejections
in Hamilton, erm, and knowing that

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.999
the whole town basically just thought
that I\'d never get a guy, you know, erm.

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.999
No-one would ever be sexually attracted to
me. I had to prove them wrong. So in one

00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.999
way, it was like the first guy that came along,
just grab him, because I felt at the time

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.999
that I\'d never get anyone paired up.

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:54.999
[sil.] Erm, there was actually,
I met a, this really nice

00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.999
guy, a couple of weeks ago
and he totally accepted me

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.999
for who I am, my disability. And I
actually was the one finding difficulty

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.999
with it because there\'s normally, it\'s like there\'s
this beginning and it\'s like a game, trying to work

00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.999
out if he\'s comfortable with me or not.
So I ask him various

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.999
little questions or if he
gets too close, I, I, think

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.999
what\'s he up to or you know, he\'s a bit
curious. But he actually totally accepted

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.999
me for who I am. We actually
went out a couple of times and

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.999
I always wanted to bring up my
disability but it wasn\'t an issue

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:39.999
for him. He\'s like he was so understanding like,
if there was a step or something, I didn\'t

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.999
even have to tell him, he\'d actually hold my hand
and help me up and if we were in crowds, he didn\'t

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.999
mind holding my hand. And
if I couldn\'t do something

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.999
we\'d change the position or just even
holding hands or kissing, you know, he was

00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:59.999
just amazing. But it didn\'t
last but that\'s okay.

00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.999
I did have a girlfriend once.

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.999
She was in a wheelchair too.
We became good friends,

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.999
neither of us could talk but
we talked with our eyes.

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.999
She had two very good female friends
on the staff who she could talk to.

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.999
We decided that we wanted to go to
bed together and these two women

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.999
helped us. We could not do it on our own.
It only happened

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.999
once. I felt bad afterwards
because we needed help.

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.999
It did not feel right.
After that, we split up.

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.999
I realize now that it was wrong to break it up
because even normal couples do not always have

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.999
great sex the first time.

00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:54.999
But it is done now. I
do not see her anymore.

00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:59.999
Yeah?

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.999
Well,

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.999
my husband and I split up.
I decided that I couldn\'t

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.999
cope with him any more. Erm, it felt like
I had a third child when it came to him,

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.999
erm. My marriage broke down for the simple reason
that a lot of marriages break down, incompatible.

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:24.999
Erm, my fears were, fears
that I suppose every

00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:29.999
woman who leaves their husband has.
What am I going to

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.999
do? Er, how am I going to cope? Er, will I
be able to look after two children without

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:39.999
my partner.

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.999
I don\'t think that I was scared

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.999
because I was in a wheelchair. I was scared of being on
my own, er, without someone that I, see I still loved him

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.999
when I left and, erm, to this
day, part of me still loves him.

00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.999
For the good times that I had with him
and also for making him, making me,

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.999
well, not com-, not completely the person
that I am. But without his help, I probably

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:09.999
may have not been the
person that I am today.

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:18.000
[sil.]

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:53.000
[sil.] I\'m not particularly attracted
to people with disabilities, as such.

00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:59.999
I\'ve never really had a, a serious longterm
relationship with a person with a disability.

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.999
There\'s a few reasons I guess.
Erm, one is just that, erm,

00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:09.999
just the practicalities of it. I\'ve got
mobility restrictions and I need quite a bit of

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:14.999
help. Erm, so that in a, in a adult
relationship so that if I was

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.999
with a partner who had similar mobility
restrictions, erm, we\'d basically just

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.999
never get past holding hands. You know,
and I don\'t want that kind of platonic

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.999
friendship, sort of relationship,
erm, with a long term partner. I want

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.999
to be able to make love, you know,
and I can and I really enjoy it.

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:43.000
[music] Yeah, I\'ve, I\'ve been, er,
attracted to, er, girls in chairs. I\'ve

00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:59.999
never had a relationship, er, with
a girl in a chair. I\'ve had, er,

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.999
a couple of sexual experiences
with girls, er, that have one leg,

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:09.999
and things like that, but, er, never with a
chair and probably both being in a chair

00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:14.999
would, er, make it quite difficult to, er,

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.999
to, er, get sexual pleasure or,
or just because of the situation

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.999
that we\'re both in. Er, are there any,
are there things that hold me back

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.999
in life? Yes, people\'s attitudes, erm, I

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.999
want to do something, somebody\'s always
there to tell me you can\'t, you know.

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:39.999
Erm, I want to do something
else, no, you can\'t do that or

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.999
you shouldn\'t do that. I mean, I sit
here now and I don\'t know in 20 years\'

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.999
time, am I still going to be able to have sex because
20 years down the track I will have been in my

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.999
chair for almost 40 years.

00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:59.999
[sil.] Because I, you don\'t walk around
in, you tend to get brittle bones,

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.999
erm which means that, you know, your bones aren\'t as
strong as what they once were because you don\'t use them,

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.999
you don\'t use them. You don\'t walk around on them. And I
thought that, ah yes, I\'m going to break a hip or dislocate

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:14.999
a knee or, you know, it depends on what position
you get into. You know, I might crack a bone in my

00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.999
back and I was really paranoid, er but I can
guarantee you, I\'ve never broken anything. Erm,

00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.999
and I\'ve done it in all sorts of
places and positions, so. Some days

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.999
you sort of, some days you get, you wake up
and you look at the wheelchair and you go,

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:34.999
\"Oh yeah, that.\" You feel really bad about it. And
other days you might be thumping down the beach

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.999
road with a pack of guys with the wind blowing into
your face and the racing wheelchair and you think,

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.999
\"Wow, wouldn\'t be dead for anything, fantastic.\".
And that\'s what it\'s all about. It\'s, it\'s not just

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:49.999
sex, it\'s about everything you experience,
everything you do with your life. Everything you

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.999
eat, everything you see, everything
positive you experience.

00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:59.999
It\'s about experiencing good things, positive
things, seeing things happening. You know,

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.999
and it\'s just a total experience
and that\'s what life\'s all about.

00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:10.000
[music]