WEBVTT

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[sil.]

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[music]

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Uh… This morning uh… we are going all the way from
Lagos… Dutch land, from there how about back to Lagos.

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And uh… we are talking about something that’s
very close to my heart really because,

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somebody asked me once to say in a nutshell,
what I feel about Lagos and I said to him

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that uh… Lagos is a city you either hate

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with a passion or you love with a
passion, there are no middle grounds.

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I have with me uh… somebody who
is perhaps, one of the best

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architects in the world. He has won what
in the world of architecture is like

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Grammy, the Oscar, Professor Koolhaas.
Now you would pardon me

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it’s a Dutch name and I’m struggling to
pronounce it right, professor good morning. Hi.

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Kool? Haas. Koolhaas, like very good to have you
this morning. [music] A beautiful Monday morning

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and this is Africa now, my name is (inaudible)
the information minister Professor Jerry Ghana

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has denied the allegation by Time magazine
that the ministry offered a $400 bribe

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for foreign journalist. Professor Ghana said,
“The money was meant to cover their travel

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and incidental expenses.” He said, “The ploy
was intended to tarnish Nigeria’s image.”

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And I look at the forecast for today the 29th
of April, today the condition will continue,

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over the north with slight reduction
in visibility, early morning rains

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will occur in parts of the south, and well thunder
storms will affect the southeast in the afternoon.

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The temperature for Lagos is put at
32° while the temperature for Abuja

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is not expected to rise above 36°.

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[music]

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Why Lagos Nigeria?

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When I was started to have a portrait on the city, I
wanted to uh… understand how cities were changing,

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and which cities were
changing uh… most quickly.

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AAt that point it became really interesting to…
to look at the city that was almost disconnected

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from the global system. So, it was
incredibly exciting to learn how to capture

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what… what is uh… so alien as a distant.

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I have one hour for an incredibly
complicated subject which is Lagos.

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So, there will be a lot of
things I’m not talking about.

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Uh… I will try to focus on a kind of
essential interpretation of Lagos.

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Umm… as a European researcher working for
an American University with a career in

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international architect, uh… my presence in
Africa was never going to be self-evident or

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uh… in contested. Uh… I came
to Africa four years ago

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with the specific aim doing research
and trying to understand Lagos.

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Uh… the likelihood is that in 2015,

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Lagos will be 24 million people
and the third city in the world.

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That in itself the combination
of a huge size and

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underperforming kind of urban conditions
became a compelling reason for me to go.

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[sil.]

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Four years ago from the outside of Nigeria,
it was incredible difficult to get access to

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information about Nigeria.
It was severely discouraged

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to move into Nigeria. Lagos was supposed to be the
kind of the most dangerous city in the world.

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[sil.]

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969, baby, you are tuned in and locked on,

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it’s the petro gas update,
gas to liquid joint venture

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involving NNPC Chevron Texaco, and Sasol South
Africa will cost $1.3 billion by completion.

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[music]

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Get off the road, by
this time of the morning

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this direction is against the traffic line look at the other
side, this side the people go into work on the island.

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They have been all the way

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from here to the mainland.
They’re also on time.

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[music]

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All I know this morning is that

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his first name is Edgar and I’ve been trying
to pronounce it last name and… Clina(ph).

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Clina(ph). Yes. You are a photographer? Yes
I’m. You are. The photography is incredible,

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I… I some of the things that were written
there, I can tell that the person

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who was writing was grasping,
was trying to define

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at all what Lagos children.

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[sil.]

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The reason that we are
looking now at Lagos is that

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we had an instinct that this was becoming a very important
city. So, we wanted to be the first to can really understand

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how it works, that is our mission. How does Lagos
work? And because there was no information

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uh… because there are no archives,
and because there is a general

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lack of… of uh… knowledge about how the
city works, it… we needed to watch

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and go out of our way we want, and we needed to
kind of really build our own kind of insights,

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it’s why we are doing field
work more than researching.

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[sil.]

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So I think it… it was enforced uh…

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encountered with something I really didn’t know
anything about uh… Africa. I never had felt

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the kind of closeness that I feel
for Nigeria, for America the same

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so I feel that this was this
world I didn’t understand.

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[sil.]

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Yeah, yeah, but it’s… it’s
less than 100, he took 100.

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[sil.]

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Good morning Lagos, I just want to know, who wants to be a
millionaire? Do you understand what language I’m speaking?

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Who wants to be a millionaire?

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[non-English narration]. The World Bank has
joined in the growing curse of complaints of

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Nigeria’s state budget, it says dangers
for the country’s fight against poverty,

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and we have to find Nigeria has been
dubbed highly aggressive 2002 budget

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aiming to spend almost $3 billion more
than it currently has finance for.

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The electoral authorities on the largest of the
Comore’s Island, Grande Comore has postponed

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presidential election for the
island which is to be yesterday.

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[non-English narration]

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[non-English narration]

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[sil.]

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There is a Lagos mentality, you are
faster, you are uh… you are very agile,

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you are very watchful, you know, and
we do not uh… we are very careful.

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You have to live here to feel it a lot,

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we have to react to every situation and every circumstance
because, you know, every day is a new challenge

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that is thrown at you, and you have to be able
to handle it is like if you drive in Lagos,

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you know, you have to anticipate what the
other person will do, and you have to think

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from the best to the worst it could happen and
be there to react to it so that you can survive.

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[sil.]

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What was not characteristic
about the city was

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but it was in its entirety and
almost a mobile condition

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with very occasional movement,
and where a system of go slow

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uh… had the entire city in its grip

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and made the city not flow but of kind of
permanent congestion and… and stoppages.

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[sil.]

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What seemed uh… uh… a completely random

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and improvised world actually
included a… a number of

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very elaborate organizational networks,
and you could see that for instance

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uh… the go slow in itself was used uh…
and that the space is between cars

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where basically filled with traders.
And that the path of the railway

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that actually still would drive here
was immediately kind of closed by

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a sea of teeming crowd of human
beings that of course were trading

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again in a very efficient way.

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[sil.]

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That one is better, it’s nice.

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[sil.]

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Yeah because it’s on sale, you know,

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it’s on sale for the regular people.
What is the sale price for the addict?

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How much is it like, its 15,000 isn’t it?

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[sil.]

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Victoria land is all class in Lagos.
To get a house here is difficult

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this one is very expensive because there
is a, there is the aura that area is

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slightly safer in terms of security than
the main land, and but the same issues

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or the same challenges persist, they have the same
electricity problem, they have the same water problems,

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you now, so the same thing happens when you
walk down the other streets on the island,

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Victoria Island here, you hear a lot of
generators because each house can afford

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to buy a big expensive generator.

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[sil.]

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When there is a bit of rain, there is a lot
of flooding because of the drainage problem,

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you know, I saw the rain come unfortunately
and I came back. My sister was in traffic

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as she called me on her mobile
phone, she didn’t make it home

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until 12:45 am, she spend
seven hours on the road,

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on that same night, another
young boy that works with me,

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incidentally he has a bit of problem because they
both was diverted, you know, and they were robbed

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while they were trying to get home. So, when it rains
like that, it’s not a wise time to go around really.

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[sil.]

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During the first visit we were
kind of taking pictures like crazy

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and… and basically we came home and there was
nothing we had really missed everything,

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and I think that was probably because we were
assuming that there was some kind of middle,

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but in the entry known to only photographer
it was literally in front of your eyes

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or to really uh… take a huge spaces.

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[sil.]

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[non-English narration]

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[non-English narration]

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[sil.]

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When she was worried I said let me call the other because I
have a bit of a problem, my nanny is stranded with my daughter.

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You’re crazy. How dare you go to the market, and
leave her, which foolish brown you are buying,

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couldn’t you have bought it tomorrow,
when I… when I would be around, you went

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and you were gone for over an hour… over an hour I kept calling
the house you were not there, so your body is well now

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when you were not well, yesterday why didn’t
you go out and buy brown pant, foolish girl.

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Right now raise the color(ph).
Why, Why do we keep going,

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and you know, finding a way, making a way?
I… I think, you have no choice uh…

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so that’s always a very
good kind of sensitive.

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Okay, okay.

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[sil.]

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Relatively very rich country but where…

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where everybody is unbelievably poor,
and where I think since the 60s and 70s

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uh… the average income has
gone down, uh… systematically

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and there is a horrible statistic
that in the early 60s,

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Nigeria was more important economy than
Korea. I think you cannot be there

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without realizing that potential, and without
having a sense that when it’s gets itself organized

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it will be unbelievably powerful.
And that even without organization

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this is already unbelievably powerful.

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And now something on the human
interest angle. At the time Nigeria is

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a find in life time to content with, a community
in Jigawa State is extremely concerned

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about the high cost of marriage, less prospective
husbands and avoidable bachelorhood.

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So far what have you found out?

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What fascinates uh… us is how uh… in a
kind of situation which is much less

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organized than the typical city
and the rest uh… there are now

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uh… incredible self organizing
entities like for instance

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one of the works that impresses
most was a lot of market, where uh…

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sheer intelligence of the kind of self-organization
is a very powerful entity which is now…

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which is the larger importer of
electronics in uh… in West Africa.

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[sil.]

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[music]

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[sil.]

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[sil.]

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I found that very interesting too, what
you say specifically about Alaba Market,

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there are about 50,000 person, there is a
ton of a – of about $2.8 billion a year

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and they are no infrastructure.

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Yeah. Well, that is, that is incredible, there are already
infrastructures of course, but it’s kind of very minimum

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and there is kind of chairman uh… of the
market, the market is completely autonomous

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in a way it organizes itself, it has its
on the word to witness a few days ago

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into court case, it… it organizes
its own um… let’s say low

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and altering situation, there is a small
prison uh… Did you, I didn’t know that,

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it got a small prison in Alaba. They got a small
prison. Owned by the market or market owners?

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Yeah. Owned by the market owners. Really?
So, uh… that kind of autonomy doesn’t

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kind of really exist, and those kind of initiatives
don’t exist in… in any other situation that we have.

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[sil.]

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We moved to Festac in 1978.

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Festac was a gorgeous place, it was absolutely
beautiful with, the whole Lagos that time to now

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is like a living in another world entirely,
because I remember the pace of life was slower,

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and there, I remember that my mother will trust me two
days on a bus and go from one point to the other,

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and nobody would do that now, unless you
didn’t have a choice. And, you know,

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it was slower, it was quieter, you know,
and it wasn’t as prosperous generally,

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as now, there is a lot of money
now, there is a lot of rain, and,

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you know, a lot of arrangement, there isn’t
a lot of order, that is a lot of money,

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then they are decent to be a lot of money,
but there was, there a lot more order.

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[sil.]

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[sil.]

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Nigeria became independent uh…
in… in ‘60, but it’s very clear

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it is kind of somewhere in the ‘70s,
there was a kind of enormous peak

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both in income and in
production, and it was the

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time of the oil glut on the one
hand, but also the oil crisis,

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the first time that oil became
kind of really critical issue.

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Lagos life at that time was motoring,

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I think in a way which uh… it has not
been since, and what the 70s gave

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is a particular Lagos identity, tough, open

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and directed towards embracing,
we are doing it without

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abandoning any African character.

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Question one, history, what day of the week did the
military handover the present civilian government?

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Question two, history, name respectively
descanted presidents Nigeria has had

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since 1999 to today? Question
three, who are vampires?

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Where in Lagos is the
boutique… Question four…

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Unfortunately, over the
years, the military came and

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does complete destruction of this
structures, and the psyche of the people.

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[sil.]

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So, that’s what I remember most about
that time, there were structures,

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they were building bridges, they were building houses,
you know, outside that there was so many houses came,

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so there was a lot of public money being spent compared
to now. Now it seems to be a lot of, you know,

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a lot um… of private initiative, you know,
have to be like a local government,

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you do your washout yourself, you do your electricity
yourself, you never used to be like that.

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I can’t think of it, when I was young, I don’t remember
how those problem would impact, we used to have lights,

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we used to have light and
we used to have water.

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[sil.]

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That (inaudible) what to do? Will Lagos
survive in the… from what you have seen now?

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I think that, what s very exciting is that uh…
because of the urbanization in general in the world,

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cities have brought in this,
misfortune than they ever had

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and that means that wherever we wanted to, you know, the whole
idea of the is being reinvented in front of our very eyes.

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So, Lagos will definitely not
look like conventional city ever,

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which is will certainly survive and… and… and
what is being done kind of whack numb here,

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I think is to define different and
new forms of… of living in a city,

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I think it is particularly uh… country very
important here, it also equally in the west,

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but the city is going to be a mixture of

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very formal, very serious, very (inaudible)
structures, and very lightweight,

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very informal, impermanent,
inflatable entities,

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and I that that’s kind of combination of the
very rigid and a very free is very visible here.

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:08.000
[sil.]

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.999
I think it was like a generic
70s umm… modern city,

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.999
and I think that’s only because it was that kind of now
survive almost as if that system went into reverse

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.999
or went into a completely different
direction than it was intended.

00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.999
So, what is the real lesson for
me is that each city is based on

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.999
a particular systematic organization
and that even as it goes backwards,

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.999
and even and even as it then enables people
to develop and incredible amount of… of

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.999
different improvisations, placed in
the dependency of the original model.

00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:53.000
[sil.]

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.999
[sil.]

00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.999
Hey! Can I take a picture?
Can I take a picture?

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:48.000
[sil.]

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.999
How is the life in Lagos? Is it getting better?
Yeah, it’s getting better? Getting better? Yeah.

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:40.000
And, how do you notice it getting better?
What is getting better?

00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.999
Do you feel uh… safer? Yes.

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:54.999
Have no problem. No problem.

00:29:55.000 --> 00:30:03.000
[sil.]

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.999
What we are trying to do is to simply
state that the city is changing,

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.999
that the old models of the cities are
redundant and that’s particularly

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.999
in the spontaneous reaction through the change, not from the top
– through architecture, but from the law and confederation,

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:29.999
we discover all kinds of new ways of

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:34.999
uh… living in the city, and that those
need to be grow and stood before

00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:40.000
the architecture kind of
begin to plan the new city.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:50.000
I’m not American, I’m not
American, I’m from Holland.

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.999
I don’t have a business card, maybe.
Do you have your business card?

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.999
She has a business card. I’m
a musician in Eastern India.

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.999
This was very important from, you know,
position, because, you know, so many structures

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.999
are collapsed throughout the years,
so things do not always work the way

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.999
they are supposed to work. So, the way to go, I want, it
will sometime, it helps to know the people who are there,

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.999
so that all you need to do is contact the person and get
around the bottom and get around the problems, you know,

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.999
because things do not work
according to the letter here.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:43.000
[sil.]

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:54.999
No, it’s not a goal. It’s good to know
so called “big man”, that’s someone

00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.999
who has a position in the society, who
has money, who has power somehow,

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.999
for example if you get arrested by the police, if they charge
you, if they put you in a cell for more than two days,

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:09.999
and if you don’t have the big man who can
call the commissioner, who can call the umm…

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.999
the station manager, and say to them that’s
my family, that’s my friend, that’s my,

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.999
can you please release him, then we will talk about it
later, it could be a bit of a problem. So, that’s where

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.999
those resource people come in, you
know, and it’s true for every

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.999
umm… every sex of the economy, every segment of
living. We also have the so called “Big man”.

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:38.000
[music]

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.999
When we started, Nigeria was

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.999
by any measure and on index or weighting of

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.999
both political generation and corruption,

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.999
the lowest low, we are in
incredible situation that

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.999
the word corruption is being
redefined every day since

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:09.999
the I confronted in the past six month,
a corruption of much faster scale

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.999
both in America and presumably
also in Europe. So, I think that

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.999
using that Nigeria was always the bottom
of the corruption, it really demands

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.999
to be publically reinterpreted now,
because of course it would not be corrupt

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.999
without our own corruption and now our own corruption
is established in a scale which is much faster.

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:38.000
[sil.]

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.999
The public in my area,

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.999
umm… I’m very friendly with them,

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.999
because they, by… by which of this job,
I’m trying to be friends with the public.

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.999
So, the first thing I try to
do when I join the police was

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.999
how to make friend with the public,
so that my appearance in the place

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.999
will… will enforce the law itself, not
even myself going into enforcing.

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:19.999
So, by the time I get to places, I call
people around, make sure they are,

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.999
make them to understand what the law
is all about, what is needed of them

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:30.000
to be a good Nigerian,
to make Nigeria grow.

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:13.000
[sil.]

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.999
Well, gentlemen officers,
surveillance, thorough surveillance

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.999
we practice our police duties, you
remember that you have a duty to perform

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.999
to the public, by being very civil,

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.999
by being respectful,

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.999
by being obedient,

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.999
being very loyal and
dedicated to your duties.

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.999
Remember that you are servants,

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.999
you are made to serve and our
duty is to serve the public

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.999
and that is why we call ourselves servants.
You can never be bigger than your master,

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.999
the master are members of the public.

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:18.000
[sil.]

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.999
Searching is a big concern for
people that lives in Lagos,

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.999
Lagos as a whole, and that I why I told
you Lagos is a very commercialised area,

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.999
a number of policemen posted to Lagos along
to combat crime and more than (inaudible).

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.999
Move faster, move faster,
move faster, move faster.

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.999
[music]

00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:59.999
Go, go, go, go, go, go, go.
Bring it, come on.

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.999
Where are you going?

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:09.999
Go, go, go, go, go. Keep
going, keep going, keep going.

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:18.000
[music]

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.999
Hello. Hello.

00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.999
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where
have you been all day?

00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:54.999
Kiss mummy, kiss mummy.

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:59.999
Kiss mummy now. Very good,

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.999
good girl, very good, kiss mummy.

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:13.000
[sil.]

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.999
At that time I didn’t want to have a child, because
I said to myself, it’s not fair bringing the child

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.999
into this madness, because there are too many
stress factors that are out of your control,

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.999
you can’t do anything about the traffic, you can’t do anything
about electricity, you can’t do anything about the insecurity.

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.999
[sil.]

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.999
It’s very tired,

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.999
you needed lot of energies to do the little things, you want to
make a phone call, the phone goes, so you are mentally upset,

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.999
you are dealing with it mentally, you are dealing with
it psychologically, you are dealing with it physically,

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:54.999
so you get tired, it’s… it’s like that.

00:38:55.000 --> 00:39:03.000
[sil.]

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.999
Most profound in my mind, I
will never forget somehow 1997,

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.999
that was right smack in the middle of the Military
era, you know, there was nothing working,

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.999
there was no electricity and there was
no water, there was no liquidity,

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.999
you didn’t even have jobs, the jobs that you
had, you didn’t get paid for your jobs.

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.999
You know, for the first time in my life, I have always said
that I would never leave Nigeria unless there was a war,

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.999
and if there was war god forbid it, I would
only go to Uganda so I can get back home early,

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:39.999
easy and fast. You know, but that time
in 1997, for the first time in my life,

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.999
I actually almost
contemplated leaving Nigeria,

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.999
so go and live outside of Nigeria, because nothing
worked at that point, just psychologically killed us.

00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:54.999
So, for me this is kinda
really the curve of our

00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:59.999
uh… arrival, so basically this is what
happened when we came here, we didn’t know

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.999
we were witness a rock
bottom moment of Lagos,

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:09.999
but it certainly get responsible
for the first image of Lagos

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.999
in the first friction zone theory, and then
the three pin kind of looking at the sense

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.999
is a degree of uh… improvement uh…

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.999
in the uh… Lagos fortunes.
Of course, in ‘99

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.999
uh… Obasanjo was elected
president and sworn as president

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.999
and democracy got returned to Lagos.

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.999
And what we have in addition to…
Obasanjo is uh… Governor of Lagos State,

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.999
who I think has a new plan with the city.

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:53.000
[music]

00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:59.999
They are so soviet between, you know,

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.999
when it comes to uh… to finalize
our research, and uh… basically

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.999
what I think is the most important thing
is that uh… through Obasanjo’s presence

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:14.999
and the State Governor that is now lot
of feasible improvement in Lagos.

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.999
Okay. And, almost to the point
that… you know, certain

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.999
fundamental problem seem to be much less

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:29.999
uh… stimulating, the traffic seems to be…
The traffic situations. Do you agree?

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.999
Well, to a certain extent, yes, but
some tiny areas do bottleneck.

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:43.000
[music]

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:54.999
Since the last time you came,

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.999
almost a year ago to now,

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.999
have there been any drastic, dramatic
change in Lagos that you have noticed

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.999
from the time you started studies in 1998?
Yeah, I think so. I think,

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.999
what is kind of really noticeable now is that Lagos
is becoming more normal, more like other cities,

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.999
uh… it’s become much lesser dramatic,

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.999
uh… and you can in certain areas, particularly on
Victoria Island that there is kind of attempt to

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.999
uh… make it more like… like a typical city.

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.999
That’s interesting coming from you, because a lot of
people who live in Lagos do not know that there has been

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.999
any sort of improvement, you know, “improvement”.
I don’t know, I think that the Lagos people are

00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.999
actually kind of really interested in keeping the
myth of Lagos as a kind of impossible situation

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.999
that only they can inhabit. But, I think
there is probably, eventually Lagos is going

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:55.000
to be like… like many other cities.

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.999
Could it be that you got used to Lagos or

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.999
did Lagos truly really change? Could it
be like you seem to got used to Lagos?

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:35.000
No, I think there is proof of Lagos changing, it’s not all
over Lagos, I think it’s spreading out from Vitoria Island.

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.999
[sil.]

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.999
Hello! Hi. Are you the designer?
No, the designer is not around.

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.999
Not around? Mm-hmm. It is a men or a women?
Does your MD have a card?

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.999
Umm… No, that (inaudible). And…
and since when this store exist?

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.999
The store? Yeah. When she started?
Yes. Umm… about six years ago.

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:35.000
[sil.]

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:45.000
[music]

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:08.000
[music]

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.999
In the early 90s it was kind of really skeptical about
what planning could do, and… and effects of planning

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.999
and Lagos was really a
confrontation with its skepticism,

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:24.999
because initially I thought this
shows that plan makes us sense

00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:29.999
or is it relevant and… and that it’s
a kind of self-organizing condition,

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.999
but now I think it is much more settle,
uh… and… and now I really believe that

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:39.999
the self-organization is quite in
a organized model of the city,

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.999
so planning is really becoming
very, much more interesting to me.

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:53.000
[sil.]

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:09.999
You know, When I was in Russia in the ‘60s,

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.999
uh… looking at traces of…
constructivist architecture

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.999
or the Soviet City or um… urbanism there,

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.999
that was a really much more really depressing situation,
because there… there was a kind of in the mental helplessness

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:29.999
that was structural and it seem to be a uh…

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:34.999
kind of permanent feature. I
think whatever skepticism

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.999
you can have about Lagos, today that
there is may be current depression,

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:44.999
but at least a possibility
of respect uh… in a way that

00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:49.999
many cultures didn’t have
even 10 or 20 years or so.

00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.999
The lord said to me,

00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.999
don’t raise money, raise me,

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.999
and I will give you more money
than you ever need for medicine,

00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:09.999
do what? Raise me. Hallelujah.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.999
Praise the lord,

00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.999
we praise the Jesus. Thank you, lord. Amen.

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:28.000
[sil.]

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.999
I heard clearly from heaven

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:39.999
the switch that has been designed

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.999
to change the status of Africa,

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:49.999
very clearly.

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:54.999
And that change

00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:59.999
will begin with you.

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:08.000
[sil.]

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.999
You know every business
fortune is viewed on ideas.

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.999
[sil.]

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.999
And every living soul is in business,

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.999
because life itself is a business. Jesus,
give them talent, I said do business

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:39.999
with these till I come.
Now, let’s praise him.

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.999
[music]

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:49.999
People have been taught how
to win in the game of life,

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:54.999
you know, whether you are working on industry,
you are in academics, in business, you… you,

00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:59.999
you strive to be the best, we keep them
to strive to be the best of the people

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.999
who are contributors, consumers, people who
want to add value to people, not just take

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:09.999
advantage of people, that’s
what we can it winners chair.

00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:14.999
The bible says you don’t
appear before the lord empty,

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.999
so everyone – every time we gather, there is
an offering time, which where each one drops

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.999
whatever he wants to drop in appreciation
of God’s grace upon his life

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.999
and it goes on. The reason we put ours in envelop
says that no one embraces you by what a God is.

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.999
And no knows what you got. So, if
you put 100 in your own envelop

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:39.999
is the same envelope,
like somebody put 100,000

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.999
and then of course, also to honor the Lord,
that’s given into, it’s not… it’s not a need,

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.999
you are only obeying his command
to have your own needs met.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:58.000
[music]

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.999
Sad things about winners is
that uh… they are also losers,

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.999
but nevertheless I thought it
was a… people were perfect,

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:49.999
but I thought it was actually really
amazing and very appraisable thing,

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.999
where you can become better and earn money

00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:59.999
and then basically we move
yourself to a better world.

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.999
It’s fix uh… in… in simply

00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:09.999
in terms of making manifest the incredible
skill, visited incredible capacity to organize

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.999
and uh… the incredible power of… of… of

00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.999
potential latency in Nigeria,
so if anything can happen then,

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.999
the city can also decide in five years

00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:29.999
to completely reinvent their self.

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:34.999
(inaudible). Yes.

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:39.999
Always? I’m always fine.

00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:44.999
[sil.]

00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.999
And I hate kind of really talking about myself
in this case, but I think that one thing

00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:54.999
that connects all our activities
is an interest in modernization,

00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:59.999
and that is why I’m in the cities, because cities are
the machinery with which modernization takes place.

00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:04.999
And, Lagos is one extreme
example of modernization,

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:09.999
and so I really want to kind of pursue
and follow it whatever shape it takes,

00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:14.999
but uh… I… I really believe that

00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.999
all those aspects are necessary to
fundamentally understand modernization

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.999
and that… that is what I dedicated my
life to and this is the expression

00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:29.999
it takes for the moment.

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.999
I am wondering about at the end of the day, is this
where the ball stops for you, going to finish this,

00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:39.999
bye-bye to Lagos. Adios,
move to another city Edgar,

00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:44.999
umm… Rem, how is it going to work? Once this
is done, that is all, would you, for example

00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:49.999
be willing to be part of the
planning of new neighbors, so…

00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.999
The point is that… that one
architect in VFN office and we are

00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:59.999
kind of plan of this and… and we… we are trying to
develop and that this is also partly an outcome of this,

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.999
project. We are trying to develop kind
of more and formal ways of planning

00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:09.999
also western cities and cities in Europe and America,
uh… but I wanted to keep it totally separate,

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:14.999
because I didn’t want to have kind of
two agendas here, uh… so when I’m done,

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:19.999
of course, it will remain
for ages in Nigeria.

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:24.999
Hmm. If you were called for example by the government of Lagos
to please do the thing you have done, where would we start?

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:29.999
I’m very interested, where would we start, for
example with traffic, or we’ll start with you,

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:34.999
reviewed it about structures and all of
that? What… I… the irony is that, you know,

00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:39.999
I’ve kinda worked on this doing
a central city, uh… but I… if…

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.999
if we are just to look in terms of kind of
changing it, we’d kind of start uh… from scratch.

00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:49.999
So, actually I cannot answer this
question, because that is really

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:54.999
a totally different way of looking at something.
Thank. When we come back from the break,

00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:59.999
you do not change, we continue with
sports, with volley and chess. Good luck.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:04.999
[music]

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:09.999
Thank you.

00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:18.000
[music]

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:15.000
[sil.]