Thumbs Down
- Description
- Reviews
- Citation
- Cataloging
- Transcript
In this cinema-verite documentary, a teenage youth group called Thumbs Down, decides "to bring Christ to their neighborhood" by holding an anti-war Mass at their conservative Chicago parish. Neither militants nor hippies, they simply believe that Christianity means social action and concern with issues. They present this belief to the community and the confrontation reveals the deepening crisis of communication between the young Christians and their parents, priest, and neighbors.
Citation
Main credits
Quinn, Gordon (Producer)
Quinn, Gordon (Film editor)
Quinn, Gordon (Cinematographer)
Temaner, Gerald (Producer)
Other credits
Editor, Gordon Quinn; camera, Gordon Quinn.
Distributor subjects
Politics; Religion and Spirituality; Education; DocumentariesKeywords
WEBVTT
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[sil.]
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[music]
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[music]
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[sil.]
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It’s up to you. Call one, Jack, and if… you… you’re
usually the first one that knows about it (inaudible)
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and to call somebody else. What’s the argument about?
She is saying she doesn’t… uh… doesn’t know about
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these meetings with Father Delarey so… umm…
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Well that’s because, you know, people have said you’re the chairman, somebody has got to take the
reps… So when take the rep, we also take going over the… Well, why don’t you tell other people
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about it that’s the thing that makes me so mad is that you two are
the only one that know. No one… see I can’t be calling everybody up
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and telling there is a meeting. Jack, I’m not
saying everybody, I’m saying one person.
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You, you are saying you. Well, I want you to bring back
everybody. We do. I never heard a dancing about the (inaudible).
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In a community, everybody knows.
Well, we just did ask you
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because well if this is a… We told you. Democracy.
If this is a community what everybody says
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is that everybody should know everything without you having to ask because everybody
should be involved in that meeting. And that means you got to appoint somebody
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to hand out a written report. I am secretary, so therefore
our job is to find out what’s going on with Delarey
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because he doesn’t show up at the
meetings ever so we have to find out…
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She is right about this because… she has been in it, he has been in
it since December. She knows what’s been tried, you don’t, I don’t…
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All I know is Delarey had some vague connection
with the school. And so what does it matter
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whether he is It matters to me and I’m part of the
community. so we’re not going to… I’m asking right now,
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Father Delarey is the moderator and
what exactly just goes on, you know,
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how do… what is our relationship to this Parish?
Delarey is the best moderator we’ll ever get.
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If doesn’t want to present himself as an authority figure. He knows
that we’ve got a good thing going without one and yet he’s a moderator,
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which to me is not the same thing. He wants the kids
to run it to make it our decision not his followers.
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Because if you don’t have enough
initiative to talk and to get your way
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during the meeting, then I just don’t want to hear what you have to
say after the meeting. I mean, it’s great, I… I love suggestions like
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after one meeting umm… somebody come up
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and asked about, you know, how come we
didn’t umm… you know, read over the business
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of the last meeting and financial reports and all
that, and it never occurred to me that we should.
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So, I said great, you know, but I… I just
wish these things could have been said during
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the meeting so everybody gets to hear them. And that’s
not what I am complaining about, the suggestions
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is the cuts because there’s a
hell lot of going around. And umm
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…the… this group is always on the
verge of, you know, falling apart.
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And like we talked about last week, we’re
trying to strengthen it so it doesn’t have to.
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There got to be some kind of authority handed
out or umm… responsibility to everybody.
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So the thing doesn’t have to be all placed on
somebody’s shoulders and all the blame so (inaudible).
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So umm… does anybody else think we should?
Well, Tom had a good idea
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about making one kid all over
each kid maybe, you know,
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around circle for one meeting run meeting. That’s kind
of really good and where there’s two or three people
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who really know what’s going and are able to tell you each
week if there’s something coming up or things like this
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and not just give the inform… informal
(inaudible) somebody else to tell you.
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There should be not much problem and its part
of the community. Otherwise, you’re just
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depending on two people who are knowing everything and
always being there and it… it’s got to be everybody’s part
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to know what’s going on. It’s not that you are an
organization where you can’t know. It’s not that detailed
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and it’s not that technical. Yeah, I mean it’s no more
than before but we just got responsibilities suddenly were
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because it kept on that me and Kate were getting
blamed for the entire time, was there any good
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or was that publicity. And I just got
so fed up. Yeah it was like… They know
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what the purpose of this whole group is? We talked
about it last week, it was a pretty good discussion,
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really good. In fact, it was one of our better meetings. We saw more or less how you
are… more or less going to operate on this whole thing? Yeah yeah. What’s the operation?
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I think everybody is satisfied
with the way it is structured.
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It’s just that isn’t… Centering
around just a couple of guys, is it?
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No. They are doing away from it they want something more. Actions? Yeah. Last down we
decided that Thumbs Down was to be something more than just entertainment for discussion.
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And the reason for that was that we
were trying to bring liberal ideas
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to the community and community unity… All
right, makes sense. Uh… so the Thumbs Down
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wasn’t just to be a night for fun, it was to be to get
these ideas across whether they liked them or not
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we have an obligation as Christians to get
something across. So we were going to try and do.
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We talked about the purpose of the Christian
workers, nothing spectacular other than trying to
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umm… the whole idea came across this that if we
are Christians and people like the way we live,
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then they join us. We’re not
out to convert. All right.
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[sil.]
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Well, you want to choose what
to put down in here I guess.
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Yeah that I have both documents
on bank and two of course,
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they are all most recent umm…
you know theology, you know
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umm… where it says the Government
should make provisions for objectors
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who had refused their arms and I think
this is probably one of my biggest helps,
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biggest most recent thing. Yeah, you
should definitely use that quote.
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Well, I’ve also got (inaudible)
which is Peace on Earth (inaudible)
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umm… many things on Catholic conscience.
Working for PEACE
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though it doesn’t, I found in most
typical Catholic (inaudible) says yes,
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objection is the only way or
passivism is the only way,
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but especially in (inaudible) ‘it says
it’s got to be love and has to be peace’
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though it does leave open ‘find it
the way you want’ and personally,
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I can’t find wars brining peace around. It’s
never happened in the history of the man
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and where in… in childbirth where they would
supposedly have to kill the mother to save the baby,
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or kill the baby to save the mother, it’s… you can’t
do that. I’m interested about this Catholic theology
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that they never take a
life to save another.
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Yeah umm… all through all my theology.
I’ve always been wondering,
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well, supposedly, you know, we always
ask this question to the teacher,
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a man held a gun on a woman and child and said,
if you don’t kill that other guy over there,
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I will kill this man and child, can you
do it? And there has always been no,
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you can’t. Who are you to
judge whether he will or not
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and who you are to judge who should die and
who shouldn’t and that’s what it amounts to
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and there’s always been a belief, at any point if it comes
to war they just completely throw these things out and say,
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well, we are the right ones, you are the wrong ones and we will kill
you. Do you try to put that in your (inaudible) several paragraphs
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to try to put to put into words. I
know they seem difficult especially
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when government forms and using legal language… Yeah.
This whole process. There was one thing that wanted
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to ask you, does the draft
broad start asking,
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you know, somewhat political questions like things
on patriotism? Yeah, they do it all the time.
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And like can you give me an example sir?
They’re likely to ask you
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what you would do if this country was invaded?
At this point of the game I don’t know
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who to fear more, the United States who might
throw me in jail for what I believe in or Russia.
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If I was to say Russia or China, I am not going to
war with you they will shoot me or throw me in jail.
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Well, the United States is doing the same
thing and all I can see is that the freedom
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I do have is the freedom for… between two
tyrants, both war (inaudible) big freedom.
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I don’t have an (inaudible) left one.
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So (inaudible) these things, but if you
want to go in. I will get time anyway.
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I want to, you know. So it’s…
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its people always want to know how it’s
going to work out and it’s very hard to say
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but the person who makes quite clearly
religious claim and is opposed to all wars
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then you can make that clear, should
be able to win the case somewhere.
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Okay, well thanks. You’re welcome.
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Do you (inaudible) you know.
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[sil.]
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You see I was… I was an only child and my parents were
always like, the only person I had to give anything
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to was me and it was… it began to…
it began to be an over concern
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and it was like do this, be
in a tan, dress like this,
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do this, do that and it got to a point
where last summer get a haircut.
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Well, I thought I’ve got to make a stand somewhere and we’ll
have to be on something silly as this so no. Okay, then get out.
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Well, I moved out four eeks later.
Well, they said,
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we’ll accept you for what you are,
uh… come back, you know, it’s okay.
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I hated to do it, you know, it was like
all tears all over the house and yet now
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it’s like they know where I stand, and I know where
they stand and everything is beautiful right now.
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As far as I… I find myself doing things
without being asked believe it or not.
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You know, I never even had that much of a problem. Its… it’s just as
(inaudible) and they just accepted me as what I was and you know,
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the best one I’ve ever had from my parents
was, I stripped the gears on the car one
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like drew my ault and I was just, you know, and a
guy told in the station, a guy at the station says
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the only way you can do this is drag races. He said he
doesn’t drag races. He just doesn’t do this type of thing.
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He said, simple, you know, and you feel good about
it and you wouldn’t have that kind of a problem.
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Thank you. Like I used to. See you, can I?
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Yeah little better. Umm… the thing is I
can see my parents do that in some areas.
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Now I have been umm… picked up by the police a
couple of times for something I didn’t even do
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and my… my parents would both go, oh
you didn’t do it? It just as simple
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as that they had enough faith to know that I
wouldn’t do it. Umm-hmm. And umm… that is fine
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and yet when there’s just some deep things like
in what I really believe and there’s sort of,
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we don’t believe that way or let’s just not talk
about it and it’s this embarrassment thing like ‘Oh!
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The kids… like one of the kids on our block was killed in
Vietnam and there was a funeral and my father said, go.
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I said, well, I’m afraid it’s
going to be a cutoff if I go
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because a lot of people know just how I feel. Remember I
don’t feel, yeah, I mean like the kid’s dad, you know,
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I can’t do that much more for him and I… I’m not close to
his parents so seeing me wouldn’t do anything for them.
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I said, why do I have to go? What will
the neighbors say if you don’t go?
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And that was it. You know, I just said, I don’t
care because it’s your pride you’re worried about
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not about what they think of me, it’s you. You are worried
what you’re going to think about you if your kid doesn’t go.
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And these things are silly. There’s… that… that
going to that would be purely blind obedience.
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And that isn’t even in love
and I can’t do things unless
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I’m doing it for a reason. It’s very rare that I’ll… I’ll do anything
unless I know pretty much why I’m doing it for someone, you know,
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umm… out of love or something.
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Why don’t you think I do it for them? Really? To
save them their face, to save them embarrassment
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because I have a belief that I had a situation like that and
like I needed them for a parents or something like this
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they show up even if they didn’t want to, to save me the
embarrassment. And I think it’s got to be reciprocal.
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I don’t… I don’t think relationships should be built on
saving each other’s face or building each other’s ego.
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You love a person for what he is. And my parents
should love me just as much because I didn’t go.
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And they should say in their own minds, they should
know why I didn’t want to go and be happy with that.
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Why should I have to go around and build up their
face? They made their own life, I’m making mine.
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Yeah but if you can do something for them, you should do it as you would
for any friend. Right, but I think the situation was a little different.
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I walk in that place and say well, am I really doing
my parents any real good and I have to say no.
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What I’m… I’m doing is keeping the
rut of keeping up with the Jones’.
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Their kids went, and… and I’m not going
to keep my parents in that kind of a rut.
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If… if I think by not going
I might have helped them.
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Actually the Parish is
about two square miles
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and goes down Touhy Avenue West to about to
Park Ridge boundary which is about four blocks.
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We should take a left
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at that next street. What… what kind
of people are there in general?
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Basically it’s about second and third
generation mixed mostly Polish,
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Italian and Irish are the most we have
on the Parish. It’s a high real thing.
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I did a research paper on the juvenile delinquency
in this neighborhood and I got the figures
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and statistics on the income, and the average income
in this neighborhood, our parish is about $8000.00
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and the most expensive is the
north side of Touhy Avenue,
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and their average income is around $11000.00. We
have close to 70 percent of all the police officers
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in the city of Chicago in the northwest
side and within our parish I think we have
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something like 30 percent police. Just
you know, it’s to show you the two…
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two of the people Kathy’s dad and Jack’s dad are both
police officers in the Chicago Police Department
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and it seems to be a state like
another emigration. They have,
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the second generation especially have fallen into the middle
class category. They worked their ways up from the lower class
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and they’ve moved out of the ghetto neighborhoods
and they have found it necessary to avoid
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the color conflicts and everything like and they’ve
moved as far as they can away from the inner city
00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.999
trying to get away from that atmosphere. What’s
the nationality of your group? Well I’m Italian,
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Joe is German, the third generation,
(inaudible) the third generation Italian
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and Jack is Irish and Scotch.
Kathy is Irish.
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Phil is Irish. Umm… most of the girls,
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three-quarters of the girls in our group are of Irish
nationality. So I think I’m the only Italian in the whole group.
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It makes me feel good.
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So you made it? Oh yeah. Okay. What
happened? What… I didn’t go to work.
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Oh good thing you didn’t. I
didn’t go to work… Oh (inaudible)
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You said something? Yeah anything
to (inaudible) Had pneumonia?
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:14.999
No nothing. Where are you going today?
No not at all. Okay.
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I wanted to discuss about the
students being (inaudible).
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I think we should (inaudible).
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.999
I think we should
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as much as possible get money from other places
and not use our own, now that sounds raunchy.
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Okay wait a minute I want to talk about that was the next thing
on. Okay, sorry about that. No that’s okay, you are excused.
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Well thank you. Umm… the next thing that Steve
was trying to… Yeah he was just trying.
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To cover last night was the
involvement in the purpose
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and direction of the purpose for
Thumbs Down. We had decided was
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have one of the people in the group give some sort of
a speech which would really get the people, you know,
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against them or state a point of view I mean
just don’t go out there for the purpose
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of getting people against you and state
your point of view. And we decided that
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an antiwar speech would probably be the best because
that’s what people are thinking about right now.
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During the mass? This is during the mass, during the sermon. You
remember these meetings, the one we had everybody get mad at each other
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and that turned out to be the most open meeting
yet. We’ve been trying to get open this so mass is…
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But the mass is not a
meeting in that sense.
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Can I finish explaining?
You see the typical
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sermon you get is, at least from
what I’ve come across, is a very
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abstract topic on something
like charity or you know,
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:54.999
donations you know, for the
church or very vague talk on…
00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:59.999
on trust or something and people can
go and sit down, listen and walk out
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.999
and feel the same way because it doesn’t affect
me and they talk about charity and you say well,
00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:09.999
I love the guy next door. We hate all the niggers in the inner
city but you love the guy next door so it doesn’t hurt him.
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:14.999
So, we are thinking that if we could really get
people involved in this, make them think for a change
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.999
and we have decided pretty much that an anti war speech might, you
know, do it because with all the peace marches and everything
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.999
umm… you know rather recently
that’s on people’s minds.
00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:29.999
And I’d be willing to bet that most of the
people in the neighborhood in some manner
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.999
or other support the war in Vietnam, you
know. And the (inaudible) proves it.
00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:39.999
Yeah umm… so during the
sermon we give this talk
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:44.999
against the war in Vietnam
from a moral standpoint
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.999
and this automatically we would hope
anyway would get people to listen
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.999
and to think about it and to question it. Now
if it works out the way I think it will,
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.999
it will anger people. They’re going to sit
there and go look at the slob. You know, he’s…
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.999
he’s mocking our country or what right does he have to say
this or something like that to try to weasel out of it.
00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.999
Umm… this is going to give you how much?
I don’t know. That was that guy
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.999
in the green shirt sitting next to you there. I think
Tom O’Brien though I don’t know. I am not sure.
00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.999
We can decide that later but anyway,
umm… and then after the sermon is over
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.999
if enough people are you know, enough
people we hope will be upset by it,
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.999
umm… I don’t know exactly how this will
work but someone else can get off there,
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.999
whether it be Father Delarey or somebody else in the
group and… and ask the people exactly what they think
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.999
you know what they’re feeling right now. Ask them to look
into themselves and if they feel hatred for the person
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.999
that just had spoken, then they shouldn’t
really be sitting in that church at all
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.999
because that’s not what Christianity is all about.
They might disagree with the person but they,
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.999
you know, they cannot hate the person
for what he said. Can I go ahead?
00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.999
It’s like a dramatic technique with
these talking and people and preaching.
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.999
It’s a technique of actually getting
them emotionally involved against you
00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.999
and then pointing out calmly or whatever you
want that this… this particular reaction
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.999
they had isn’t Christian and something
like that. May be I explain it over time.
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.999
These people that are sitting in the mass
in the audience have a reaction of hate
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.999
towards this person that’s giving the
homily and they’re doing exactly
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.999
the same thing that the Jews did to Christ or
the crucifixion of Christ. They hated Christ
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.999
because he presented an idea that they didn’t like and
they crucified him. And this is what we want to show,
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:39.999
we don’t want to embarrass people. I don’t
think that’s the purpose to embarrass people,
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.999
it’s just to make people realize that what they’re doing
here at that mass, these are supposed to be offering
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.999
their sins or whatever they did, they crucified
Christ and celebrated the resurrection of Christ.
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.999
And I think through it is called irony actually because
if I’m against the war and I’m against killing people
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:59.999
and I want to love, and those… I’m seeing here in the audience
and I don’t like this guy because he’s preaching that,
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.999
then I really don’t like Christ, I really don’t love Christ because
that’s what he preached. May I… may I add something to that? Yeah.
00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.999
Christ came very close to
throwing a nonviolent revolution
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.999
and the way the Catholic Church has been set up or the
way I grew up in it, it’s been a very bland dull thing.
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.999
And you could go into church and go out
of church with the same damned feeling
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.999
and never move, you never get moved. How many
people are Catholics without being Christians?
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.999
You can go to church and then go out and
throw rocks at the local nigger, you know,
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.999
it’s the same thing and still say I’m a Catholic. I was
baptized. That’s not where it’s at. You’ve got to live it.
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.999
Christianity is supposed to be a way
of life. And this I think will do it
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.999
if we can get people to feel for a change in church,
to really feel and then make them look into themselves
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.999
and ask themselves, I’m a
Catholic but am I a Christian?
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.999
Well they will be taking the nametag Catholic off? Yeah.
And you’ll see what’s left. Hey something else too.
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.999
Umm… including Father Delarey
up there or another kid,
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.999
I think it would be more effective to put one of the kids up there
because then they know that it’s… Yeah okay. … You know the way…
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:09.999
We only get it for free. Oh yeah, this is the great plan. Father
Delarey was trying to show us some good old thought already you know
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.999
and people are not going to say, they’re going to stop reacting to a
priest automatically. Yeah because you’ve gone to the mass again you know,
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.999
part of the mass. Then comes Father Delarey, he has come to save us, you know.
It’s got to be effective if this is going (inaudible). I mean this… this sermon
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.999
is part of the mass. I mean there’s…
there’s nothing more really Christian
00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.999
than a person stating his conscience, you know. Yeah but
there is certainly got to be a part of it, you know.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.999
Yeah that’s it. I mean it’s got to be… it’s got to
be stated that this isn’t the group’s point of view
00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.999
but this is the individual’s point of view and
the group as a whole agree that any individual
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.999
can hold his point of view, you know, and has
the right to, and we can love any individual
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.999
no matter what he says. That’s right. We have
to because we do call ourselves Christians
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.999
and not just Catholics. Hello Jack,
there is… I have been thinking about
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:59.999
this week but general sickness in the country,
you know, in general Christian this is something
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.999
and it’s not only Johnson’s fault or anything like that,
we could point that out and here we’ve seen ourselves
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.999
an example of it. If we see it, yeah.
If… I mean I don’t know what…
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.999
if we’re going to get any nasty comments
being yelled at us from the audience.
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.999
Well we just a very subtle… I bet you guys we will. I really do think
you We will get there at one mass. Here’s the thing… Here’s the thing,
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.999
what point… it depends on first off who gives
the speech and second off, what point he takes.
00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.999
Now let’s say if I was to give
it I have to take the same thing
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.999
I gave my draft for which is purely a moral stand
and all I would say is that if you’re Christian,
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:39.999
I cannot see how you can kill and this might not
offend anybody. I’d rather see somebody get up there
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.999
and… and say, we have to be
Christian and not American.
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.999
And so let’s tear down the flags and hang up our crucifixes
or something like that, that wouldn’t offend people
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.999
and we can’t do this just for the sake of offending
people but we have to get somebody’s real point of view
00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.999
because I mean we’re not playing games, this is
too serious. Right, you know he is supposed to be
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.999
try to be like Christ. The ideal Christian is a
man, a person who wants to be the man Christ was,
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.999
the perfect man. And if I’m standing up here
in front of you and I’m trying to preach this
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.999
and tell you this, this is how I feel inside. If you
can sit here during the mass and hate me for it,
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:19.999
then what are you doing here?
Christ got up and said something
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.999
and they didn’t like it. So what did they do? They
crucified him because that he bugged them, you know.
00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:29.999
He made them think, he started talking
about love and they weren’t ready for it.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.999
Now this person is going to start talking about
love. He’s going to say baby, if you love somebody
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:39.999
you cannot kill him. And they’re going to sit
there and go, oh yeah, you filthy communist.
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.999
And you know, if it… if it works out, people are going
to start labeling him a dozen different things.
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.999
And then… and then you’ve got them. You can look back and
say, hey maybe this is just what the Jews did you know.
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:54.999
This will be dialogue to be taken. Oh yeah. There
will be an opening statement . I’m just wondering
00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.999
if this is at all ego. Oh!
You don’t get the homily.
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.999
I mean I don’t know. I’m just saying. I don’t know. Well
how about if this isn’t during the homily, why not do it
00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.999
before the mass? No I think (inaudible)
The thing is we call a group homily we
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.999
can get away with. I think before
the homily actually it’s all
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:19.999
the… the you know, all the steps leading up and to, but the important
part is coming and it’s the part where people lack the most involvement.
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.999
I mean people almost have to be involved
when people are reading to you.
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:29.999
But when there’s these parts of the mass where there is no
reading done and when you are really supposed to be thinking,
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.999
there’s where the thinking doesn’t exist. And I think if we
make it clear before the important parts of the mass people
00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:39.999
will be thinking. They might not be thinking about the mass but
they’ll be thinking about why the hell they’re at the mass
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.999
and that’s what are we doing it for.
You could use that
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:49.999
start off the… have someone start off the
homily with that. No. End up with that.
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:54.999
Or end up with that? Yeah. That’s great.
Can I get my draft papers for a minute?
00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:59.999
Yeah just… just for umm… (inaudible).
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.999
I think that will be very effective. Yes it will. As well. Now you
have to, you know, have some kind of compassion for this guy.
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.999
Yeah. These papers occur through the…
(inaudible) public library (inaudible).
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.999
Oh you took mine? Hmm? You took mine?
I’ve got 30,000 different quotations
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:19.999
and things that might be,
you know, something to use.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.999
[sil.]
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.999
Umm… something like umm…
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.999
called the fact that one is a
citizen of a particular state
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.999
does not detract in any way from his
membership in the human family as a whole,
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.999
nor from his citizenship and the world
community, which is John the XXIII, you know,
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.999
and Paul VI, ‘if you wish to be brothers,
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.999
let the weapons fall from your hands.’ This is your
Pope you know. If you quote from scripture right away
00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:59.999
then they have to listen to what you’re saying. That way
they will really get angry though. In this mass now,
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.999
I know what the problem is going to be, the rectory is going
to get letters galore after this mass is over about uh…
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.999
you know, those communists and whatnot. Well here’s
the thing, they’ll probably end up shutting us down
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.999
but my idea is let them. I think
we should run one good mass,
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.999
one that’s worthwhile than about
20 that aren’t worth shit
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.999
and I really mean that. The possibility of them closing
Thumbs Down too. Not allowing us to go. That’s risky guys.
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.999
That’s why I say, I’m very willing to take that risk
because holding a group together and… and… and umm…
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.999
just, you know, for the sake of
getting along with everybody
00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.999
and not doing what we really believe in just so we can
stay alive isn’t really staying alive, it’s just existing,
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.999
coexisting and that isn’t the way it works.
(inaudible) somewhere else. Right, I mean,
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.999
I mean we’ve got enough guts to go ahead and do this,
we can run this thing someplace else, you know.
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:54.999
It’s important. We can run it underground
if we have to. Do you have any (inaudible)?
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.999
Yeah. Thank you. No, I… I really
don’t think that this is…
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.999
this will be our fulfilling thing, maybe it’s not adding
to the community. You know, its bringing them together.
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:09.999
Maybe what we’re doing is taking them apart but maybe that’s
what’s needed. Maybe these people were just throwing into,
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.999
you know, these people moved into this neighborhood
and they were wanting to think about things
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.999
and they come to me because they have to. Maybe this mass and the
people who do come to this mass will finally be spread apart
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.999
because thinking we’ll take these people apart but when
I think it out may be they’ll come back together again.
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.999
And this is the first step towards a
community. It’s already disturbing.
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.999
Umm… Umm… go ahead. I was
going to say that if
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.999
this thing was possibly closed down that would
be a shame because I think just one such homily,
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.999
dialogue homily will do anything. I
think we should have it more than once.
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.999
Maybe this is our one and only say, and so we’re
going to say it. If we… if we wait till like
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.999
two months from now what we say it once we are
going to get closed down anyhow No, no, no,
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.999
she doesn’t mean that. Oh I see. She means like she wants it even more
often but if my senior closes this down we have to go underground.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.999
Yeah that… if there is some way we could
let the people know that we’re not trying
00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.999
to cause any trouble that we just want
to try something. No we have… we have.
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.999
No, we’re not trying to we’re not trying to
close ourselves down… Yeah. Not trying to…
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.999
that sort of thing, that we would
like to try it again. One more thing,
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.999
there’s some other people in our group and if you know at one of
our meetings that we’re worried about turning the mass into a zoo.
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.999
But they all agreed that this is all… In fact (inaudible)
one of the greatest propagators of the zoo story
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.999
said that was not a zoo, that was hitting the
people where they… they were supposed to be hit
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:39.999
and making them involved in the mass.
There’s just… okay, there’s just one thing
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.999
umm… that might be one of our… our
major problems and that’s first off
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.999
getting this passed with Delarey. Oh!
Doesn’t he know? No, not yet.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:54.999
You mean you’ve done this for
10 days and you haven’t done
00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.999
anything about it? What was I to tell him for 10
days? You were going to do what you… Do what?
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.999
Do We actually had no idea
who would want to do it.
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:09.999
We had no idea who Wow! but it was an idea wasn’t it? Oh yeah, here Delarey I’ve got
an idea for you to think about. You are going to have to like tell him we’re doing it,
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.999
don’t ask him. Yeah, I’m going to go. Oh okay
then just tell them. Now I think you do it. Okay.
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.999
Okay call him up. Right now? Right now.
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.999
Okay. You’ll probably giggle through the
whole conversation…. no I won’t. Dave?
00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:29.999
This is Kate. Put Delarey on,
this is really important.
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:34.999
You can tell on that phone. Okay.
Be sure to explain this
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:39.999
thoroughly so he gets the right idea. I guess,
you know, someday he is not going to know
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.999
and we’re… We should wait until Sunday?
No, no, no, no, no, now…
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.999
now tell him now. It’s not fair because he
might get in trouble. Maybe it’s against
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.999
some sort of law. Umm-hmm, we do it I don’t
know but just ask him and he is the moderator,
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.999
he has been good, you know, and all that.
Okay. He should know.
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.999
Okay.
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.999
Father? This is Kate. Okay, we are…
I might talk real quick, so listen
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.999
and don’t think anything (inaudible). So we are going to
have… we are going to run something that’s kind of new.
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.999
We’re going to get one of the kids
from the group at the homily.
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.999
Now the purpose of the homily is to umm… to
find out in a way why people go to mass.
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.999
Now it won’t be probably that way. It will
probably be a talk on peace. When is the mass?
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.999
This Sunday. Umm… what is your homily time?
Morning at? Why not?
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.999
Why, we do it (inaudible) all the time.
Do we get a bigger mass?
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:44.999
Oh thank you. Umm… can we ask
questions during the homily
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:49.999
time after they’ve had
time to think about it?
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:54.999
Oh we can, you don’t need to.
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.999
Oh! During the time when sermon should be.
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.999
Okay, now it’s going to be on peace and we’re
going to have songs that lead up to it,
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:09.999
you know, like the tone of the homily and there
are going to be umm… times they are changing
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.999
for the opening communion it’s going to be sound peace
and… and for the ending it will be let’s get together.
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.999
And umm… we… we want to have the
commentator and the elector.
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.999
What’s your commendation into like the theme of the mass? The
only problem then would be getting the homily before mass
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.999
and then we could ask
questions during the sermon.
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.999
Oh no, you’re not going to do it.
00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:39.999
It’ll be somebody from the group that’ll do the homily and…
Tam O’Brien is doing that. Tam O’Brien will do the homily.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.999
And then umm… somebody else… will ask
questions like uh… if it’s on peace,
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.999
Tam stands pretty much what Jack says.
Well this the whole purpose.
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.999
You know, like if they lead him
for what he believes in then
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.999
what the hell are they doing at mass?
You know…
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.999
no, if they hate him for it.
Yeah, but how many adults hate
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:09.999
what they believe in and
usually hate the person? Okay.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.999
I will take care of that point. Okay,
we will take care of that point.
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.999
Umm… we’ll… we’ll take care of that. Umm…
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.999
you know, whether they hate the person for
what he believes in for what he is. Okay,
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.999
okay, so we can do it?
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.999
Just a minute.
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.999
Can he give his opinion on it at the
homily time? No, no. No, no… why?
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.999
Because we don’t want you to, yes why not.
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.999
Tell him that it depends
on what his opinion is.
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.999
It depends on what your opinion is.
We can’t, you know,
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.999
I don’t want to hear a pro-Vietnam speech. (inaudible) forget it. No,
no. Forget it, forget it. That will defeat the entire purpose. No, no,
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.999
it… it… it… uh-huh… no because every time
you get up there you end up being biased.
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.999
Listen, tell him that it’s not for the purpose
of convincing people against the war in Vietnam,
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.999
it’s to make them feel what’s on the inside. It’s
not for the purpose of convincing people umm…
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:19.999
it’s not for the purpose of convincing
people what? That we are against Vietnam…
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.999
That they are against Vietnam, it’s just for the
purpose of… Getting them to think about it.
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.999
Umm… getting them to think about it. And… and
hatred and love and mass and Christianity.
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.999
Oh bull, everybody will go and say, aha that was another
one of Father Delarey’s kicks to get us to think.
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.999
Uh-huh… Father this is our baby.
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.999
It is two.
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.999
[sil.]
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.999
No. So?
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.999
No I don’t agree but so
what if it was biased?
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.999
Can I ask you what he is saying?
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:09.999
Yuck, yuck, yuck, no. Oh!
What are you going to…
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.999
just a minute. He won’t give in. Why not? Because
he wants to do something biased and if you are…
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.999
Give me the phone. Father, it’s me.
It’s me. Hey listen,
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.999
I think you misunderstood the whole thing. We’re not
pushing war or peace, we’re pushing Christianity and love.
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.999
Okay, if you want to direct a
question for you that’s okay.
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.999
Okay, oh no. Just shut up. She…
she is having a heart attack.
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.999
Listen, you can direct the questions, but we
don’t want you to give a pro-Vietnam speech
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.999
or anything like that. He is going to give a balanced word.
Not a balanced anything, you know. You see what I mean?
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.999
Tell him what the questions are.
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.999
Look people in the group
or anybody you want.
00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.999
A lot of them will probably be uh… not
about the war itself but about umm…
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.999
the purpose of what’s going on. (inaudible). That’s
what I think anyway, I know cases of problems
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.999
about the war. It’s just that we… we’re not
running a debate, we’re running a mass,
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.999
you see and it’s not like a pro-war or
antiwar. That’s not the idea. We’re using Tom,
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.999
yeah… we’re using Tom is a, you know, if you
want to get currently a modern day Christ.
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.999
Why don’t you come in my room and I will show you
books I’ve got that you can use for your thing
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.999
if you want to. Okay.
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.999
I will smile….I will smile.
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.999
Thou shall not kill and whoever shall
kill shall be liable to judgment
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.999
but I say to you that everyone who is angry
with his brother shall be liable to judgment
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.999
and whoever says his brother
shall be liable to be sent
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:55.000
And whoever says thou fool,
shall be liable to the fire of…
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:09.999
He came in last night and he had a
sideburn that came down and a Cross,
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.999
long hair and he (inaudible)
so we could get it cut off.
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.999
And he didn’t get it all cutoff and so my father called him
a GP and every other name in the purpose, really funny.
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.999
No son of mine is going
to wear hair like that.
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:29.999
My brother just kept saying,
dad looks don’t count.
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.999
[sil.]
00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:39.999
I guess he gets a cut if he wants
to come home for Christmas
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.999
and if he wants to stay home. The breaks.
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.999
We have to go around the beach because
my senior doesn’t like short.
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:58.000
[sil.]
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.999
Come on in.
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:14.999
Now you wanted to direct questioning, I’m not sure if I understand
exactly what you meant. You said something about a balanced…
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.999
No what I… I would feel is as though, you know,
insofar there will be questioning on what he did say.
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.999
What my role will be then at this time is then present to them
this idea that I would like to hear the opinions of the people
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.999
here today concerning what was
said before mass in this…
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.999
in this short sermon given by Tom O’Brien and
then direct them if there are questions to Tom
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.999
or their opinions just reflected, nothing
more than that. You’re not going to give a…
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.999
No… Pro-Vietnam speech or… No, no. None
of this. I don’t want to offend you Jack
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.999
but the fact is that no. Okay good.
See what is the theme for tomorrow?
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:54.999
Tomorrow’s theme for the mass actually is the… the… the church
again. It’s insofar is the end of (inaudible) classes at this time,
00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.999
the class of the church. Well, we wanted to have
a theme of… of the mass which would be umm…
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.999
generally the Christians stand
out more and the commentations
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.999
all during the mass would
be quotations from
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.999
the New Testament and from the different Popes and
their stand on a war, parchment on terrorists,
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.999
documents on Vatican… But do you feel all these comments
are going to be one-sided though? No I don’t think so.
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.999
No I mean the… the straight out of… I mean what’s one-sided about the
Bible, you know, no doubt. Oh it’s easy, I mean, if you quote on a context
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.999
it can be very one-sided. You can always quote it
the way you want… what you wanted to say, you know.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.999
Well that’s partly what we’re doing, giving
the people the other side of the picture
00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:39.999
which they never got around here anyway
and then also putting him in the position
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.999
of making a stand on first off their personal beliefs and
also making a stand on the person that’s been talking
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.999
and the mass in general. Now we
possibly might get some people
00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:54.999
that are really going to be offended by
this, and then through the entire mass
00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:59.999
we’re going to make them see that, we’ll hope to make them
see that though you might disagree with what he said,
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.999
you cannot hate him or … do anything.
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:09.999
In the mass itself you want to present a position
of… in that of in anyway attacking the war.
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.999
No of love. Might be… may be stressing the…
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.999
the concept of… of the
Christian view of, you know,
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.999
not knowing nonviolence to an extent you know
uh… and the idea of peace and love right.
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.999
I mean as long as it is put… but if it’s in
any way so directed that everyone just senses
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.999
the weight of this is antiwar propaganda,
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.999
this is what it is then I think that you… you’re being dishonest
with the people just as much you’re condemning everyone else
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.999
for being dishonest may be at times. We’re not so much talking
about antiwar, we are talking about O’Brien being Christ,
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.999
he states what he believes and if these
people want to crucify him for it,
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.999
then what in the hell are they doing at mass? You see
what I mean? You want to tell them O’Brien Christ
00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:59.999
is what you’re saying? Yeah. Oh come on.
No, the biggest (inaudible)
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.999
real honey up there with this tie and suit
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.999
and nice combed hair and cleaned shaved and
he’s going to say, but I would go even war.
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:14.999
See it’s a new concept. It’s like Christ.
If he got there they know it.
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.999
Its very accepted. Christ was, he was just like everyone else.
That teaches in the background. That’s why. I am not going to
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.999
(inaudible) no Christ was
accepted by all the other people
00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:29.999
until he talked. And when he said what
he believed then they rejected him
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.999
and that’s what we… As long as… as long as
it comes out as his opinion, fine. Yeah.
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.999
There is another thing or two pattern. We’re going to umm…
at the end of… at the end of mass, we’re going to umm…
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.999
have… leave it open if people want to
stay after and discuss it. All right.
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.999
Yeah, if there is any arguments and if people really so, you
know, worked up about this then they can argue with us later.
00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:54.999
Okay. Or if there is any questions that haven’t fully
been answered… They will say argue with questions.
00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.999
Yeah but see what you don’t want to
do is in any way then more or less,
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.999
mark these type of masses as
antiwar type masses, you know.
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.999
No, the antiwar thing isn’t… isn’t the
reason. We could have chosen civil rights
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.999
or anything except that we decided unanimously
that war right now is the thing in people’ minds.
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.999
Well, I don’t know, all I have to say is if its, you
know, well presented, there’s nothing wrong with it.
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.999
Well O’Brien is kind of the meek and mild, I mean, as far
as giving talks we told him to put something behind it
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.999
like power, you know. If people (inaudible)
senior that they want the mass umm…
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.999
Eliminated. Eliminated, then I say if
you’re really going to eliminate it
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.999
when we try to be sincere then okay. I
mean, why… why give what they want.
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.999
No, you are not giving them what you want. No, you are not giving them
what you want, you’re getting them to think. That’s your opinion.
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.999
That’s everybody’s opinion in the group because we
decided on it. All right, but the thing is then
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:54.999
are these young people’s masses yours alone? See, I mean
are you willing to have these things completely eliminated
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.999
from the Parish for the sake
of your feeling at this time?
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.999
No, but what good are they doing uh… other
than just throwing a new place to have a mass
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.999
if we don’t put across what we think is true and what we
think is right. I think we’re introducing to these people
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.999
a new form of liturgy, I think we’re
introducing to them a… a new attitude and…
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.999
and more or less the relationship to the
masses so far as the dialogue sermon
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.999
and things like this as I mean, do you received tremendous
comments on what… Yeah. This meant to them at mass.
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.999
I think we’re slowly introducing to this… this to them
because many of these people have never seen this before
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.999
and never been in Vietnam. The masses… the masses
what we have been running it isn’t that different
00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:39.999
but the only thing, the big difference is that
it’s in a new place and we have a dialogue sermon
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.999
and a few of the songs are different. Umm-hmm. But I mean we want that…
that is the thing, the mass isn’t just built around these things.
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.999
The mass is a feeling and that’s what we’re
trying to communicate this real feeling.
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.999
Well, it’s the… it’s the experience of this… this
community praying together and more or less being honest
00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:59.999
like you’re saying, okay, we’ll give it this try. I… I
hope that this guy has enough common sense to realize that
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.999
his own personal feelings aren’t necessarily
I mean… that the people would want.
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.999
[sil.]
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.999
If someone in the class was turned around
talking to the kid sitting next to Patrick
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.999
and the guy around and he just went choo…. Really? Yeah.
So (inaudible). Well, is he failing out of grade school?
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.999
(inaudible) In grade school?
Now he has got D’s I guess.
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.999
He doesn’t care to work, he is like work
isn’t grades. Grade school is the thing,
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.999
I mean you got to work in high school. I can tell
you that because you know, what I did but umm…
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.999
I mean grade school is bad, by the time he is in eighth
grade he will have adjusted. What grade he is in? Seventh.
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.999
He could have just passed because when you get in high school
if you don’t get it in the beginning you’re gone for four years
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.999
because I used to say well, maybe in my junior
year I’ll study and then when I got to my senior,
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:54.999
well, I am in my senior I’ll study so I can get in college. You don’t? And then
it was like well, I’ll get in college to study and so here I sit, you know.
00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:59.999
I don’t do that bad but I’m… just
that I’m not a disciplined student.
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.999
(inaudible) student and he is doing
(inaudible). Yeah. Let’s do that.
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.999
Oh… oh I was going to ask you about
the… the… food for Christmas
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.999
do you want to ask the nuns or shall we about what’s the story in
that? Well, let me check with her first. I will check with her.
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.999
Okay, all right. Umm… will you
be there when we’re setting up
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:24.999
and all that? When is this? Tonight, we’re taking
down and setting up for the mass tomorrow.
00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:29.999
What time it will be about? 12? 12. Yeah. Do you
think it is (inaudible) Thumbs Down at night?
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.999
I’m not going to call (inaudible)
most of these organizations
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:39.999
that are stuff in by Tuesday. You have
to (inaudible) at least two or three…
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.999
How about regular stencils?
I don’t have a machine.
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.999
And also I want money for the part.
21 (inaudible) tonight.
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.999
All right because you have to you
know, realize it. Father is not rich.
00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.999
Secondly the… the kitchen
is a mess even there…
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.999
What… what… what? The… the things that
you put your Thumbs Down sign I remember
00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:09.999
on the tablecloth… That wasn’t theirs, that was that
That was Diane Wallace. That was used to playing cards.
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.999
They used it for playing cards that’s true.
Father, yes what Dan said, even
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.999
He was drunk. He wasn’t drunk, he
doesn’t know what he is talking about.
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.999
Secondly, Dan said that it was his so
what if Then it must be cleaned up.
00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:29.999
And the other thing was you said that yourself, you tore out the… that
one time when you were breaking into the different cabinets bunker.
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:34.999
That was one of our students. That was… That was
felony. When you first started you were breaking
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.999
into those cabinets taking different stuff. Oh please.
Someone did from your office. Now we’re gangsters.
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:44.999
We are going to get motorcycles with Thumbs Down and… Your
group… you are a little. Wanted some Christian workers?
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:49.999
Yeah. CW’s? You are going?
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.999
We’ll see you.
00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.999
Okay, all right.
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.999
Who has the longer hair? What?
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:09.999
Who has the longer hair? I do.
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:18.000
[sil.]
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:29.999
What is that?
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.999
No, no, I want all those in
that way, all right. Why not.
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:39.999
All right, was it.
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.999
Okay good.
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:53.000
[sil.]
00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:59.999
Do what I told you.
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.999
Okay you get it. Now down,
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:09.999
you will fall you idiot. Can you hear him?
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:14.999
This is more this way.
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.999
Where you big on stuff and show you.
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.999
I hope they are (inaudible)
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.999
Taylor, Taylor, do what I
told you to (inaudible)
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:35.000
it’s easy. Do you want my mass?
What are you doing after again?
00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:59.999
Okay so you want to tell me about what are going
to do? Yeah like you’ll come five minutes
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.999
(inaudible) there’s going
to be a short introduction.
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.999
This is a saying there
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:14.999
is something similar in the Bible.
Things have God
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.999
and things of. People put
the things with(inaudible).
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.999
In (inaudible) (inaudible) papers they
say umm… do you feel that your duties
00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.999
to God are… are over and above your
duties to man and in Christian theology
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:34.999
you can’t say yes because it’s the same.
My duties to man are my duties to God.
00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.999
So what are the duties to man? Christ.
Umm-hmm, not the state.
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.999
No (inaudible).
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:49.999
I am opposed to (inaudible) practicing
the writer’s stake comes through…
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.999
through the people to God and God. Yeah.
00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:59.999
And through human beings, human beings come first.
Who made governments in the first place, you know?
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.999
God comes down to earth and
they came to America. Yeah.
00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:09.999
You see first I’m a Christian then I’m
an American and they can get along fine.
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.999
They don’t always. They don’t
always, no, such as the draft law
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.999
and that I just couldn’t go along with because it
is immoral. It’s hardly Christ’s teachings at all.
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:28.000
[music]
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:08.000
[sil.]
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:14.999
That was a song called Don’t think Twice
It’s All Right. It was written by Bob Dylan
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.999
and I’d like to introduce the boys in
the group. On my left here we have Gary
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.999
and on my right we have Tim Grossing
00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:29.999
and in the middle right here
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.999
we have Bill Carrigy.
00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:39.999
Sorry. This is the violation of what I
grew up in. How could I live with myself.
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:44.999
One of you were kept in the
States and had like umm…
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:49.999
(inaudible) go in or no? No I wouldn’t umm…
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.999
for the mere fact that if I’m sitting a desk
that puts somebody else in the frontline.
00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:59.999
I am also helping. I’m helping the
system, I’m helping the army.
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.999
I mean like obviously they wouldn’t draft me
if they didn’t need me. And if they need me,
00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:09.999
I am not going to help them because
I’m just supporting this (inaudible).
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:18.000
[sil.]
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.999
My name is Johnny Jacks,
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:49.999
all American boy.
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:54.999
[sil.]
00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:59.999
I’m on my way to football
practice hah hah hah…
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:04.999
and I’m waiting for a bus.
00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:09.999
What are you doing just
doing the guidelines
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.999
and let other people take care of this? Why does
anybody have to take care, take care of what?
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:19.999
What’s the problem? You are fighting communism but these
people you’re trying to help them with better life.
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:24.999
We’re not helping them do anything. Do you realize
in Vietnam there’s kids that have no mothers
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.999
and fathers because they’ve been killed, they are without
legs, arms and eyes. The same thing happened in World War II…
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.999
Right, I’m against World
War II too, got it?
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:39.999
I mean it’s like overhelping, helping them
from what? Vietnam has never been in bullshit.
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.999
I mean (inaudible) damned wars, you know, the only people
that are getting good are wars of the capitalists.
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:49.999
There’s no such thing as a communist. Everybody’s out for money. The
only person that’s going to make money are the guys in government.
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:54.999
The only people that…
that make anything are
00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:59.999
the people that are in politics in a war. We
have in the past sponsored young people’s masses
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.999
and the old church down the street.
00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:09.999
We haven’t held one in a real
long time for the main reason
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:14.999
that we don’t think we’ve affected people.
We don’t really think we’ve offered people
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:19.999
anything except variety. And as has
been said so well in our group,
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:24.999
the mass is not a zoo
where you have guitars
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:29.999
and you play folk music for the simple reason
of playing guitars and having folk music.
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:34.999
And we have come to think that in the past all
the masses we’ve had have been just playing
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:39.999
like the old… old way we’ve had
it, it has become that way
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:44.999
and we’re going to change. We’re going
to have one of the people in the group
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:49.999
before the mass begins give a talk
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:54.999
against the war in Vietnam.
He’s out because it’s his mass
00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:59.999
as well as everybody else’s mass
and he is going to speak his mind
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:04.999
on how he feels inside. Because
the same thing he does
00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:09.999
before the mass speaking his mind
is something that people don’t like
00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:14.999
and the things that Christ preached were things that
people didn’t like. And what they did is crucified.
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:19.999
And we want these people for once
to come to a mass and think.
00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:24.999
Think about why they’re there
and should they be there,
00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:29.999
and are they there for the right reasons. Maybe
we can carry our mass back to the year 35 A.D.
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:34.999
to when it was really a mass. When
there were people there in a catacomb,
00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:39.999
in a dirty filthy catacomb. They didn’t have to be there,
there was no Canon Law that said they had to be there.
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:44.999
They were there because they had known
a man whose name was Jesus Christ.
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:49.999
And he said do this in remembrance of me. And
they were doing it in remembrance of him
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:54.999
not in remembrance of Canon Law
and not out of fear of sin.
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:59.999
They were doing it because they wanted to do it. And we want
the people in this neighborhood for once in their lives
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:04.999
to think about the (inaudible) mass, the beautiful
words that are there and they are beautiful words
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:09.999
and they do mean something. And Christ
was a man and he gave his whole life
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:14.999
to that one idea. He wanted to draw people together
and we want to draw these people together.
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:19.999
This is why a young Christian workers. This is why we’re
here, Thumbs Down. We want to draw people together
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:24.999
in the most beautiful way and the
best way is through the mass.
00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:29.999
So please come. We want you there.
Because I know there are people here
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:34.999
that come to the mass for the right reasons. They
know what and they thought about but the people
00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:39.999
that we want to affect them out the people that don’t.
Whether they come out of that mass hating our guts
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:44.999
and want to close us down we don’t care
because we are going to put on mass.
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:53.000
[music]
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:08.000
[sil.]
00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:14.999
In the beginning God created the heavens and the
earth, then he made man. He told man to live
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:19.999
and grow old and enjoy the creatures he had put on the
earth. In order to get along better with each other,
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:24.999
man setup institutions and rules,
institutions such as governments,
00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:29.999
countries, nations, the United
States of America. Unfortunately,
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.999
man fell from the original state of
happiness God put him in. He showed
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:39.999
that he could be selfish, cruel and petty. He showed that
he could get pleasure out of making other people miserable.
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:44.999
He discovered fun in killing people.
However, he had a conscience.
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.999
While he enjoyed his newly-found fun he
knew it was wrong. But over the years
00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:54.999
he learned to keep quiet his conscience by convincing
himself that wrong is right and right is wrong.
00:59:55.000 --> 00:59:59.999
He accomplished this by letting his neighbor, his
country, the laws of his nation tell them what is right,
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:04.999
to say with President Janssen. In
this country, the laws are religion,
01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:09.999
thus you could reject to believe so he professed every
week such as I shalt not kill and say, oh, shalt not kill
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:14.999
if several of my neighbours tell me to. The
United States of America is at the moment
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:19.999
engaged in a massive war in Vietnam for the purpose of
keeping in power a man who has said that his only hero
01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:24.999
was Adolph Hitler, Premier Keith. The
reason that our government is in us
01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:29.999
for keeping this tyrant in power is to preserve our
economic system from a different economic system
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:34.999
which is no better and not an awful lot worse on our own. Both
these systems are engaged in a struggle to eliminate each other.
01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:39.999
It may seem strange to some people,
but human beings, creatures of God
01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:44.999
should be sacrificed following his
direction, to settle fork ways.
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:49.999
However, we the people of the United States who profess
to believe in God and an objective moral code,
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:54.999
resist in telling ourselves that if God wills
us to (inaudible) and huge demolition bombs
01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:59.999
and bomb the cities of Vietnam, know
that we are self-proclaimed devils.
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:04.999
It doesn’t seem to matter to us how many people we kill, when we keep telling
ourselves, we are trying to save from the clutches of the atheistic communism
01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:09.999
and making our country and/or God
our own creation into an idol,
01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:14.999
we reject to God whom we confess
to worship. We become hypocrites
01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:19.999
and saying the way worship the God who created
us, we worship the country that we have created.
01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:24.999
It seems to me that no, we are not to be one of those who press
condemned as putting the things of man before the things of God.
01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:29.999
It is our duty as Christians
to obey the law of God,
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:34.999
to refuse to kill even when our governments or
country orders us to kill. It is my advocation
01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:39.999
to the God who created me to refuse
to become part of the war machine,
01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:44.999
to refuse to join the armed forces even if I am directed.
I urge anyone who feels that he is a Christian
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:49.999
to do the same thing. This may be treason
to the United States of America,
01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:54.999
but I believe it is patriotism
to the Kingdom of Heaven.
01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:59.999
I think what we wanted today was somehow
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:04.999
to present this to you and then
from you to get some ideas
01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:09.999
and feelings that you may have. This concepts
may have been sort of offensive to some of us,
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:14.999
you may have felt that this man
is a problem, we may have felt
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:19.999
that somehow his opinions are those of our young
men who are not willing to give their lives
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:24.999
for our country and yet there are
feelings behind all of this,
01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:29.999
feelings that are formed
very deeply and scriptured,
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:34.999
not reagree with anything he said,
therefore, I would like again,
01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:39.999
as I have done in the past that these young people’s
message to more or less open this up to you as a dialog
01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:44.999
and I am certain, may I ask them at
this time to present this to us.
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:49.999
[sil.]
01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:54.999
If what he says is true,
then the charge turn out,
01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:59.999
all 19 years of history that is back,
only was, etc., etc., and then the church
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:04.999
has been wrong for 1900 years.
I mean, where are these words
01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:09.999
being justified in the past if there
is a lot of peace in Christianity?
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:14.999
Beside you went to the church,
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:19.999
throughout 1900 years has been involved in more or
less, we had the holy wars during the middle ages
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:24.999
and the purpose of war,
winning back the holy lands,
01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:29.999
I guess we enthused in conscious, the
Muslims were defending their holy land too,
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:34.999
so we have two people who unconsciously think
they are right in killing one another.
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:39.999
I am not defending a position
that you may have stated today,
01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:44.999
but yet, many of the actions of the
crusades into the holy wars were not best,
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:49.999
but rather in the interest in the Temple
powers that were at hand. Why isn’t the church
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:54.999
from the whole down and advocating
that all the Catholic people
01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:59.999
and all the Christians stay away
from the war? Why aren’t we all
01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:04.999
as developed countries, yes?
01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:09.999
Anyone else on that?
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:14.999
It is a very interesting question. When the young gentleman
said that communist economy isn’t any better than ours,
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:19.999
the people who had been forced enough
to the states and (inaudible).
01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:24.999
I don’t say how we can be peace loving,
01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:29.999
whole world is peace loving. It was out that if we
did not fight, then somehow we would be overrun by
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:34.999
the enemies of our country, Christianity.
01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:39.999
It seems to me that it’s a kind of a paradox, I
don’t know if I can really sell and really write,
01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:44.999
but it is going to be really
Christians and obey Christ
01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:49.999
to actually achieve what he told us, but
the same can be the killer (inaudible).
01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:54.999
So the (inaudible)
01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:59.999
the very fact that he died for the
principle of making man free.
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.999
Somehow we should look at the safety of our
own lives and some as Christians world
01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:09.999
should know us. We should just let ourselves
be killed and maybe through our blood,
01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:14.999
bring about a race, we will change the feelings of
people and may be they wouldn’t kill us all out,
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:19.999
maybe after so many of us were killed.
You know (inaudible)
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:24.999
and let anybody do anything, so ready to lay
over here and let everybody else go over there
01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:29.999
and pray for him, (inaudible)to over there.
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:34.999
Exactly over there, we get men playing
out that (inaudible) I do give these men
01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:39.999
the great honor of being called martyrs.
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:44.999
As we know, the only church, the martyrs of our church would
also die for the faith and I do think that our young men
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:49.999
who are in Vietnam are really dying
for what they really believe,
01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:54.999
what they really believe is rise and doing
it as Christians or Jews or Muslims,
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:59.999
whatever they maybe and therefore we
should not just write them off as fools,
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:04.999
working as puppets under a governmental
system. But I think this is a point
01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:09.999
where we should think, think about what is
the true Christian spirit concerning this.
01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:14.999
But the problem is where
does one draw the line,
01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:19.999
we see they haven’t been aggressive deep
in, how far can I walk my property,
01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:24.999
how far can I go up my property (inaudible)
because I say he is going to pay
01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:29.999
(inaudible) and where do you draw the line,
in other words, when you (inaudible)
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:34.999
because this is one way to come back over
here. How far can I go out there to defend
01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:39.999
the right of freedom for all men? Anybody understand,
I think that there is a lot in the country,
01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:44.999
(inaudible)
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:49.999
and we must,
01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:54.999
hatred and loved all mixed too.
01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:59.999
Therefore, we are seeing that somehow
01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:04.999
our men cannot really be fighting in Vietnam
because if this is the sign of hatred?
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:09.999
No, this is the sign of God (inaudible).
01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:14.999
[sil.]
01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:19.999
You are really (inaudible) principle that has been
put forth by our countries, the fact that somehow
01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:24.999
this is our work too and so far
as we represent a free world.
01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:29.999
I mean like gentleman brought up here, how far can
we go beyond our land if it is a physical territory
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:34.999
we go beyond and then there is
also the philosophical territory
01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:39.999
because of the freedom. Could it
take me halfway around the world?
01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:44.999
It might, I don’t know. (inaudible)
supposed to be your brother
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:49.999
and how us just decide justifying murder
on the streets? Again we may look at this
01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:54.999
and say that somehow what I
am doing is trying to defend.
01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:59.999
Now the big principle that is sort
of really being attacked here
01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:04.999
and this helps in this whole philosophy of whether we should have war
or peace, is whether a man really has the right to defend himself.
01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:09.999
Maybe I can conclude with this
idea that we have been trained
01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:14.999
in our thinking and our philosophy that
a man has a right to defend his life,
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:19.999
you have a right to life and therefore you have
a right to defend it against the aggressive
01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:24.999
who would like to take your life and we
must think of what (inaudible) needs.
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:29.999
Let’s pray, let us stand and pray.
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:34.999
Let us pray for peace throughout the
world as somehow the two are the UN,
01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:39.999
there are many countries involved
in the UN. They may come up with,
01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:44.999
to suggest bringing a ceasefire
to the war in Vietnam,
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:49.999
let’s pray for the Lord. Lord hear our prayer.
For our many men who are fighting in Vietnam,
01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:54.999
they are true to their efforts in
their law and they bring about us
01:08:55.000 --> 01:08:59.999
a quicker peace and they bring to the people
of that country and to the world a true model
01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:04.999
of who a Christian should be, let us
pray to the lord. Lord hear our prayer.
01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:09.999
Let’s pray for the many families that are
perished, who are sick, those who have died,
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:14.999
let us pray to the lord. Lord hear our
prayer. God, our refuge in our strength
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:19.999
and source of all goodness, heed our
holy prayers, Christ, our Lord,
01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:24.999
oh God, we pray that you would
be pleased to bless, (inaudible)
01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:29.999
sanction fully and spiritual and acceptable
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:34.999
this offering as you becomes also for us,
the body and blood your duly loved son,
01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:39.999
our lord Jesus Christ, who broke the bread
01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:44.999
and gave it to his disciple saying
all of you take and eat this,
01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:49.999
this is my body.
01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:58.000
[sil.]
01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:09.999
Likewise, after supper, saying
whenever you perform these actions,
01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:14.999
do them in memory of me.
01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:23.000
[sil.]
01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:29.999
Let the piece of the Lord be always
with you. And with the spirit.
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:34.999
(inaudible)amen.
01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:39.999
The whole hand of God, the whole hand
who takes away the sins of the world,
01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:44.999
Lord (inaudible).
01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:53.000
[non-English narration]
01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:08.000
[sil.]
01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:43.000
[music]
01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:28.000
[sil.]
01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:44.999
Lord (inaudible)
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:49.999
Today, we have shared the masses of community.
If we now c and love and accept each other,
01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:54.999
we will truly become a part
of our Christian belief.
01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:59.999
[sil.]
01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:08.000
[music]
01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:39.999
[sil.]
01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:44.999
If any of you would like to stay up or may be
if you have questions, we would like to discuss
01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:49.999
what was said yesterday, feel free to.
01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:58.000
[sil.]
01:17:20.000 --> 01:17:24.999
I want to talk what are you for?
01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:30.000
I can’t understand because
this is a nice discomfort.
01:17:35.000 --> 01:17:39.999
It’s too hard to tell you. Go on,
tell something. Only I could.
01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:44.999
So this group, I tell (inaudible). Oh, yes, it
is. We are going to have an adult discussion.
01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:49.999
Good, tell, yeah sure.
All right, you are going
01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:54.999
to take over one of this discussion,
so tell us what you stand for,
01:17:55.000 --> 01:17:59.999
not I tell you this in advance, you protest against this, protest
against that, a lot of discuss this, that is what you want.
01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:04.999
In two words, is that what you mean,
peace and love that I can expound.
01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:09.999
You expound, that is what we need peace
and love in reality? (inaudible)
01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:14.999
make decisions. If we could get together,
01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:20.000
some people, small groups to
discuss, do you believe (inaudible).
01:18:55.000 --> 01:18:59.999
Oh, yeah, certainly. I mean you can see the
intelligence if you said these people wanted it.
01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:04.999
It’s like either they try to take a fairly
intelligent stand and you know with reservations,
01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:09.999
so you really think (inaudible) pure emotion
out there. If you see the people’s faces,
01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:14.999
they were going wild in the church. But if there is not
people like (inaudible) you heard him talk. You know,
01:19:15.000 --> 01:19:19.999
(inaudible) he always told us
that he takes the opposition
01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:24.999
to make us speak out. Of course,
I think he was in reality today.
01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:29.999
He was too, (inaudible) this doesn’t change the matter.
So you still can’t (inaudible) which point that
01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:34.999
we can say we are defending our
country in south Vietnam, no.
01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:39.999
We can see the lack of acceptance too. I mean, they just wouldn’t accept
that very much. I understand, he could all day, it was like nobody can tell,
01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:44.999
we are right, you’re wrong and I just
ask you where is the love of country.
01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:49.999
I mean they talk about love and freedom, but
where, you know. He believed what he was saying
01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:54.999
like they can’t accept that a person can really get and
express himself. You can see just the reactions of people.
01:19:55.000 --> 01:19:59.999
Get that kid out of the stage, you
know, what is going on, just wow.
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:04.999
(I think we are true inaudible).
I know, I do,
01:20:05.000 --> 01:20:09.999
because (inaudible) because of the war. (inaudible) really
done something to make the people feel what a mess this is.
01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:14.999
It is like (inaudible).I think
they did, they did too.
01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:19.999
Maybe a few books did, a lot of times, they are just storming
out of here. You know what, this is a mess where people
01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:24.999
(inaudible)so many messes,
it’s just so weird,
01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:29.999
there are so many messes, people come and they sit like
(inaudible) then they go made, just think about things
01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:34.999
you can get in the home and stuff.
01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:39.999
Why don’t you just go,
01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:45.000
we exit. (inaudible).
Please address politely.
01:20:55.000 --> 01:21:03.000
[music]
01:22:45.000 --> 01:22:49.999
You got it. I got it. Would you have any more
of pizzas? Only a woman came up and understand.
01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:54.999
Get off the football
field for half a minute,
01:22:55.000 --> 01:22:59.999
you might learn how to and it’s true. If men in this
country get their mind off of their business at the time,
01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:04.999
maybe have time to learn something. And what is
open and said that to be loving and understanding.
01:23:05.000 --> 01:23:09.999
It sounded a lot more (inaudible)
yeah, that’s what I mean.
01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:14.999
Your sex is
01:23:15.000 --> 01:23:19.999
welcome to do that, you are human with a soul and a mind
and a free will. Just because you have got more muscles
01:23:20.000 --> 01:23:24.999
and because your hair is to your waist,
does it make you look able to bow.
01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:29.999
What I am saying is that,
01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:34.999
I don’t know what I am saying. But
the theme was if you love somebody,
01:23:35.000 --> 01:23:39.999
how do you do choose them? And
how do you fight an immoral war,
01:23:40.000 --> 01:23:44.999
but is it necessary? And if it’s necessary,
what’s the proof, you know. I mean really.
01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:49.999
Did you hear it like, did you hear? Oh, it’s
not necessary whoever said it was. Oh, my God.
01:23:50.000 --> 01:23:54.999
That’s the one big thing I am against. I
think that they are horribly, unnecessary,
01:23:55.000 --> 01:23:59.999
they’re cruel. It’s (inaudible).
That is my big (inaudible)
01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:04.999
I am not impressed with this kind of
thing too. The reason we picked war
01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:09.999
and the reason I think everybody talks about it all the time is
first of all, the kids in our group are all going to have to face
01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:14.999
the problem after war
in the army, you know.
01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:19.999
I think a girl too, put herself in a
position because we don’t have to go
01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:24.999
and it’s –
01:24:25.000 --> 01:24:29.999
I can’t say what I will do. I mean that’s really the silliest thing, because
you don’t have to go, it is like, well, women, you know, special rights.
01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:34.999
We should take our stand in everything,
but we can’t feel as strongly as men do.
01:24:35.000 --> 01:24:39.999
Your brothers go in and get killed
over there. You should feel a strong.
01:24:40.000 --> 01:24:44.999
In that respect, what I mean, it doesn’t
affect us personally. So everything that goes
01:24:45.000 --> 01:24:49.999
on around you affects you. I mean like a
girl in my block had her brother killed
01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:54.999
in Vietnam. Why didn’t you (inaudible).
01:24:55.000 --> 01:24:59.999
Yeah, you know, I mean and for what.
You better know why they’re dead.
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:04.999
Either you believe or you don’t, then you better do
everything you can to get them straight down on it. You know,
01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:09.999
what I found in the beautiful thing in talking to my old
man about the whole subject is, he really, really believes
01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:14.999
that he is right. You know,
wagging all the stuff
01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:19.999
and I mean it’s almost sad, these really
hurt his feelings. You don’t know.
01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:24.999
That’s hard though. We must have talked for about
an hour about this and of course I took your stand,
01:25:25.000 --> 01:25:29.999
but I listened to him too. They
were brought up entirely different
01:25:30.000 --> 01:25:34.999
like World War II broke out, he never had anything
like you got know. I can sympathize with people
01:25:35.000 --> 01:25:39.999
who would say why don’t the church
make a stand but the thing is
01:25:40.000 --> 01:25:44.999
that it all comes down to your conscious. You want the church to tell
to you to do everything. I mean it is like makeup your own minds.
01:25:45.000 --> 01:25:49.999
But she has made a stand. You really
haven’t. If you remember the documents.
01:25:50.000 --> 01:25:54.999
It hurts me, but like the
case that Sunny said, ahm,
01:25:55.000 --> 01:25:59.999
something to the effect that our whole
band will case for war, but he doesn’t,
01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:04.999
but nobody said anything and Jarway would not calm anybody
in the group to answer the question. It’s like, you know,
01:26:05.000 --> 01:26:09.999
it’s like 3 pop, you have got it written in
your church papers. What I found in that mass,
01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:14.999
is this total disgust for anybody that didn’t
agree with you. I mean, it’s like okay,
01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:19.999
I am not disgusted with them. I think they are
stupid, but I mean great. See the thing is,
01:26:20.000 --> 01:26:24.999
is that, if I am stupid, I am not
hurting anyone. No one is dying
01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:29.999
because of my stupidity. May be I am wrong. But if
they are stupid and they are wrong, people are dead.
01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:34.999
Yeah, it is like (inaudible). It is like
2 bands race to get off their wrongs
01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:39.999
and it is like they can sit (inaudible) or list out communism, but
may be what if they are wrong? What if there isn’t a big threat.
01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:44.999
About how far can we go
to defend our country?
01:26:45.000 --> 01:26:49.999
Then you hear a guy a block away, just because
you think he is going to arrive at your house.
01:26:50.000 --> 01:26:54.999
(It is more coming {inaudible). Why I
don’t you believe that junk details.
01:26:55.000 --> 01:26:59.999
I mean I just don’t buy. What is a junk? It is all
these communists – capitalists, routine, silly,
01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:04.999
most people are simply smack that in the
middle, but once you have got money or cap,
01:27:05.000 --> 01:27:09.999
which of course because they don’t want to lose it.
Once a donor communist, so they think they are.
01:27:10.000 --> 01:27:14.999
You know, because they go offer them something better and it
is simple as that. Nobody is really a communist or capitalist,
01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:19.999
it is just like everybody is greedy a lot of
the time. I mean look at there is no more
01:27:20.000 --> 01:27:24.999
timing as in Russia than there is here.
I mean it’s like
01:27:25.000 --> 01:27:29.999
the guys on the top, they dress nice, they look on the nice
places. Everybody else is on the bottom, just like here,
01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:34.999
and might be a little more of a difference,
you know, our standard class setup
01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:39.999
and it’s pretty much, you know. Everybody is making a
bang and if everybody in this country refuse to go
01:27:40.000 --> 01:27:44.999
and which was my point on civil disobedience,
we just sit down and say no, damn it,
01:27:45.000 --> 01:27:49.999
so as to pull the guys out of Vietnam. One thing
I didn’t understand about your father was that,
01:27:50.000 --> 01:27:54.999
what was that he fears what he doesn’t
understand. Yeah, right. I must be dumb,
01:27:55.000 --> 01:27:59.999
I mean, what’s not to understand, I mean, you
know, really. No, no, no Jake, what that means,
01:28:00.000 --> 01:28:04.999
he mean he fears what he doesn’t understand what we
were talking about because we don’t explain ourselves.
01:28:05.000 --> 01:28:09.999
He has seen what we protest against, what was
protest, but he hasn’t seen what we protest for.
01:28:10.000 --> 01:28:14.999
Protest for, I am not so much against
the one who are (inaudible).
01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:19.999
We are protesting for peace and for wars. But
he is like (inaudible). He wants us to explain
01:28:20.000 --> 01:28:24.999
what we mean by protesting for and what
you mean by protesting against for.
01:28:25.000 --> 01:28:29.999
He wants to know, he wants to know what
goes behind it like we can sit here
01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:34.999
and discuss but he has never heard more than you know
we are against war in Vietnam and we are for peace.
01:28:35.000 --> 01:28:39.999
Like the (inaudible) on
Sunday and that’s not,
01:28:40.000 --> 01:28:44.999
he didn’t hear what we have been saying
tonight and that’s what he wants to hear.
01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:49.999
He is perfectly willing to. Change his mind, I
mean, that’s. I doubted very much, very much Jake,
01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:54.999
but at least he will have listened to
us and we will have listened to him.
01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:59.999
Maybe he had a little more
understanding what come between us,
01:29:00.000 --> 01:29:04.999
but he will never change because
he is too old to change.
01:29:05.000 --> 01:29:09.999
Yes, you’re right, but what would have done,
that’s what I want to know, you have no answer.
01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:14.999
Uh… man, the war in Vietnam is not World War
II. It’s relevant to a certain degree of,
01:29:15.000 --> 01:29:19.999
but nevertheless we are fighting with the Chinese and with
the Vietnamese, not with the World War II, it is just.
01:29:20.000 --> 01:29:24.999
This is what you have got. We are talking
about wars in general, heard that.
01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:29.999
This discussion was generated though running
in the context of the morality of the war.
01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:34.999
Now let’s just talk about Vietnam. Yeah, the
point is whether or not this is in fact
01:29:35.000 --> 01:29:39.999
good Christian theology.
That’s the first point.
01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:44.999
Whether or not I must defend my life,
whether I must defend my wife’s life,
01:29:45.000 --> 01:29:49.999
my child’s life, my family’s
life, my neighbors’ life
01:29:50.000 --> 01:29:54.999
and my neighbor down the street.
A lot of Christians
01:29:55.000 --> 01:29:59.999
went to the line, so because they
wouldn’t defend. Defend what?
01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:04.999
Defend the positions. They were defending
religion. They were told to give up the religion.
01:30:05.000 --> 01:30:09.999
That’s why they went to the lines. And
those same questions tried to hide first.
01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:14.999
Right. They were caught.
(inaudible) always.
01:30:15.000 --> 01:30:19.999
(inaudible)
01:30:20.000 --> 01:30:24.999
but that’s not the point. Why not?
01:30:25.000 --> 01:30:29.999
That’s not the point. I
think the point is there.
01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:34.999
Uh…, for me, war and another point is
01:30:35.000 --> 01:30:39.999
an extension of freedom at the cost of another
person’s life and I can’t see that either.
01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:44.999
It’s not, I don’t think war is the
extension of a countries life.
01:30:45.000 --> 01:30:49.999
You know, think the individual people’s life at the cost of
other people’s life. I think it’s too special of your freedom
01:30:50.000 --> 01:30:54.999
at the cost of other people’s lives. I
think you can’t equate the 2 in anyway.
01:30:55.000 --> 01:30:59.999
My freedom is more important
than the other countries life,
01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:04.999
I just can see that. I would rather (inaudible)
observing have to kill for freedom.
01:31:05.000 --> 01:31:09.999
As far as the (inaudible), I am not (inaudible)
on anybody’s rights for not going, really.
01:31:10.000 --> 01:31:14.999
(inaudible). This is a real
example present with us.
01:31:15.000 --> 01:31:19.999
You may be loving (inaudible).
01:31:20.000 --> 01:31:24.999
(inaudible) opinion. It’s with the
actions which logically follow
01:31:25.000 --> 01:31:29.999
the expression of this (inaudible). (inaudible)
there’s really very difference right?
01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:34.999
I mean you say one thing, but then you have to do another in order to get
(inaudible). (inaudible) You say one more word, I am going to punch you,
01:31:35.000 --> 01:31:39.999
one more time I am going to punch you in the nose. But
then you really (inaudible) really does believe this.
01:31:40.000 --> 01:31:44.999
You know, you can – you can say it we just can’t do
it. I know you are living in this country (inaudible)
01:31:45.000 --> 01:31:49.999
worth something. What’s it worth? Because
you are giving a vote (inaudible).
01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:54.999
And you’re 21. I am 21.
01:31:55.000 --> 01:31:59.999
When I say that I believe
that I will not kill someone
01:32:00.000 --> 01:32:04.999
to maintain the word freedom to see that
this a certain type of a government
01:32:05.000 --> 01:32:09.999
is instituting our country and that’s all I do is (inaudible)
and I come up with no outward action than I am a Hypocrite
01:32:10.000 --> 01:32:14.999
and (inaudible) Christ.
01:32:15.000 --> 01:32:19.999
These are men that (inaudible) law in the 1
01:32:20.000 --> 01:32:24.999
New Testament that this is this, this is this,
this is this. But they had no action involved.
01:32:25.000 --> 01:32:29.999
All they do was put words. I think people
are going to finally come to a realization
01:32:30.000 --> 01:32:34.999
if they follow the philosophy of Christ that
words and actions (inaudible) go together.
01:32:35.000 --> 01:32:39.999
You got to express yourself physically and
emotionally as well as just speaking words
01:32:40.000 --> 01:32:44.999
and I can’t see tonight (inaudible) discussing this.
What we are trying to do is to be open minded
01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:49.999
about the situation. I think Christianity is going
to have to be the big point of the whole discussion.
01:32:50.000 --> 01:32:54.999
I mean you just cannot revolve around this.
You mean to say that I am
01:32:55.000 --> 01:32:59.999
not a good Christian if I don’t believe like you about
this world. No, this is what I am trying to say
01:33:00.000 --> 01:33:04.999
. No, I said I have the
freedom to express my ideas.
01:33:05.000 --> 01:33:09.999
I have to respect your opinions also.
And you’re a good Christian
01:33:10.000 --> 01:33:14.999
as I am (inaudible). What he is saying
is that we are not true Christians.
01:33:15.000 --> 01:33:19.999
If we don’t be made that war is wrong. That’s
what I guess. Yes, what you are interpreting it.
01:33:20.000 --> 01:33:24.999
If you interpreted as such then
I (inaudible) but it’s not,
01:33:25.000 --> 01:33:29.999
we are not judges. I can’t judge you. I
think that we are all of Hypocrites,
01:33:30.000 --> 01:33:34.999
all of us. Please do not
01:33:35.000 --> 01:33:39.999
follow Christ teachings period and everything. The
only thing that we have discussed here tonight
01:33:40.000 --> 01:33:44.999
is war and killing. How about the rest
of Christ teachings? Do we follow?
01:33:45.000 --> 01:33:49.999
No.
01:33:50.000 --> 01:33:54.999
All right, you are preaching against war.
You can’t, you can’t say that,
01:33:55.000 --> 01:33:59.999
you know, we are hypocrites and other things. So therefore we
should be hypocrites and this. You know, I just can’t follow
01:34:00.000 --> 01:34:04.999
the logic of your statement. Well, you don’t. What
you’re picking up one thing that is bothering
01:34:05.000 --> 01:34:09.999
you right now that fact that you are going to have to
go in. You see that next look like you are picking up
01:34:10.000 --> 01:34:14.999
one (inaudible) You know, it
has taken us 3 hours tonight
01:34:15.000 --> 01:34:19.999
or two and a half hours tonight you know just to get through –
you know, where we are now which I don’t know what that is.
01:34:20.000 --> 01:34:24.999
But you know, if we had taken up you know
Christianity where it we would be, you know.
01:34:25.000 --> 01:34:29.999
You haven’t seen me, you know, go through my daily life and
you can’t tell me that, you know, (inaudible) because,
01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:34.999
you know, I am only (inaudible).
Yea, I know.
01:34:35.000 --> 01:34:39.999
Well, that’s me too. Oh, now read it,
01:34:40.000 --> 01:34:44.999
okay, so I am a hypocrite and something
01:34:45.000 --> 01:34:49.999
I know that I am unless you are pretending.
Just to fight being a hypocrite
01:34:50.000 --> 01:34:54.999
and everything because I am hypocrite in one thing, you
know, and I just cancel your justification of that either.
01:34:55.000 --> 01:34:59.999
Like I say war is wrong I
have to follow this up,
01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:04.999
I can’t kill, they have to follow up
with idea in the action. (inaudible).
01:35:05.000 --> 01:35:09.999
I didn’t want to give anybody the idea
01:35:10.000 --> 01:35:14.999
that I don’t respect your
right to believe in,
01:35:15.000 --> 01:35:19.999
you know, your ideas on war and I do
think there are very good Christians
01:35:20.000 --> 01:35:24.999
on frontline Vietnam fighting
for what they are believing.
01:35:25.000 --> 01:35:29.999
You can’t be a good Christian I guess
and fight. I don’t personally see how,
01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:34.999
but I have enough faith in man and man who believes
that if he says that’s what he believes and good.
01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:39.999
You know, do your thing. And the
people are really worried about it
01:35:40.000 --> 01:35:44.999
and I think you (inaudible) don’t
apathetic towards the whole situation.
01:35:45.000 --> 01:35:49.999
There aren’t really going to take any interest in one way or the other. I mean
the people who say they are for the war in Vietnam and have reasons for it
01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:54.999
and they can also say they are Christians because
of it. And if we (inaudible) it can also fantastic.
01:35:55.000 --> 01:35:59.999
But this majority and I do believe it’s
the majority of people are in between.
01:36:00.000 --> 01:36:04.999
But still professed the Christianity and
(inaudible) people will really have to worry about
01:36:05.000 --> 01:36:09.999
and no matter how much we disagree, I think
we are both on the same side, really.
01:36:10.000 --> 01:36:14.999
Now we can sit here and fight whole night about the pros and cons of
what wrong same side. Let’s (inaudible) play whole night about anything.
01:36:15.000 --> 01:36:19.999
Let’s get one point clear. I think
01:36:20.000 --> 01:36:24.999
that we are invited here actually
to get our reaction (inaudible)
01:36:25.000 --> 01:36:29.999
No, we didn’t want to be that,
that’s the whole point.
01:36:30.000 --> 01:36:35.000
Our feelings were (inaudible).
01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:44.999
You think the discussion
01:36:45.000 --> 01:36:49.999
was arranged this Sunday morning
after mass to when you sat down
01:36:50.000 --> 01:36:54.999
that you feared you didn’t understand you heard
we were against but not what we are for.
01:36:55.000 --> 01:36:59.999
And so far, (inaudible).
01:37:00.000 --> 01:37:04.999
What, what, what. It is
juvenile to say that
01:37:05.000 --> 01:37:09.999
the penalties in the law should not be applied and this is just
the one particular case we are talking and we (inaudible).
01:37:10.000 --> 01:37:14.999
Ever since I can remember.
01:37:15.000 --> 01:37:19.999
All the world has been (inaudible) s
01:37:20.000 --> 01:37:24.999
moke from dying and burst of my dreams
01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:29.999
and I must have travelled miles
01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:34.999
since I seems to be a child but I never
01:37:35.000 --> 01:37:39.999
see a smile, so it seems.
01:37:40.000 --> 01:37:44.999
When the world became a rumble
01:37:45.000 --> 01:37:49.999
and I saw the cities crumble
and my mighty fortress tumbled
01:37:50.000 --> 01:37:54.999
to the ground.
01:37:55.000 --> 01:37:59.999
Then I started out to
wonder and find some time
01:38:00.000 --> 01:38:04.999
to (inaudible) whether
new dreams way beyond
01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:09.999
here to be found.
01:38:10.000 --> 01:38:14.999
Now there’s no one going my way
01:38:15.000 --> 01:38:19.999
as I walked this rocky highway.
01:38:20.000 --> 01:38:24.999
There’s no water here. This
driveway makes me shrink.
01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:29.999
Seems like every town I come to.
01:38:30.000 --> 01:38:34.999
All the people deaf and dumb to me,
01:38:35.000 --> 01:38:39.999
would laugh if I should come us good dream.
01:38:40.000 --> 01:38:44.999
I have been to California
01:38:45.000 --> 01:38:49.999
whether people would have adorned you.
But if you should look for lord,
01:38:50.000 --> 01:38:54.999
you might be fine.
01:38:55.000 --> 01:38:59.999
But I just can’t take Chicago
because the cops there have a lot
01:39:00.000 --> 01:39:04.999
to lock you up if you should want to
01:39:05.000 --> 01:39:09.999
speak your mind.
01:39:10.000 --> 01:39:14.999
I could go to Argentina,
01:39:15.000 --> 01:39:19.999
where the grass is so much greener
01:39:20.000 --> 01:39:24.999
and the air you breathe
is cleaner than up here.
01:39:25.000 --> 01:39:29.999
But I probably get tired working
01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:34.999
as somebody’s hired and
I am probably be fired
01:39:35.000 --> 01:39:39.999
in a year.
01:39:40.000 --> 01:39:44.999
I could join a revolution and
have find a new solution
01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:49.999
to the problems of pollution
01:39:50.000 --> 01:39:54.999
in this land. (inaudible)
maybe go to Thailand
01:39:55.000 --> 01:39:59.999
or some lonely desert island
01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:04.999
where I grow my own, get
high and talk to sand.
01:40:05.000 --> 01:40:09.999
[music]
01:40:10.000 --> 01:40:14.999
But that’s all just playing games and
they’re all given different names.
01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:19.999
But they are really all the same
01:40:20.000 --> 01:40:24.999
and I get bored. And I
think in my confusion
01:40:25.000 --> 01:40:29.999
or my childhood dilutions.
01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:34.999
I am St. George who (inaudible)
solutions with a sword.
01:40:35.000 --> 01:40:39.999
And I am searching for one new side
01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:44.999
as I wandered through this blue night.
Will I ever see
01:40:45.000 --> 01:40:49.999
the true light of the day.
01:40:50.000 --> 01:40:54.999
And I wonder on and wonder (inaudible)
01:40:55.000 --> 01:40:59.999
ever hear the thunder of
a rainstorm as I blunder
01:41:00.000 --> 01:41:04.999
on my way.
01:41:05.000 --> 01:41:13.000
[music]