00:00:15.900 --> 00:00:19.120
I came to explore the wreck.

00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:22.600
The words are purposes.
The words are maps.

00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:26.160
I came to see the damage that was done
and the treasures that prevail.

00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:29.520
I stroke the beam of my lamp
slowly along the flank

00:00:29.680 --> 00:00:32.800
of something more permanent
than fish or weed.

00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:34.320
Diving into the Wreck - Adrienne Rich

00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:53.920
Yes, I understand, but...

00:01:54.080 --> 00:01:57.560
In this case you have
to know that we have her.

00:01:57.720 --> 00:02:01.120
Ok but, dude, please
accept that it's not easy for me

00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:03.200
to be sure about that. You know?

00:02:03.360 --> 00:02:05.240
You can say that all the times you want,

00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:08.240
but if you can't answer my question

00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:11.040
or I can't speak with her,
I get suspicious.

00:02:11.200 --> 00:02:13.200
I know you understand.

00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:14.720
It's quite normal.

00:02:16.720 --> 00:02:19.920
Well, then ask me
the question and I'll see.

00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:22.480
All right, then. The question is:

00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:26.440
Which song she sings

00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:34.840
to her granddaughter
to put her to sleep?

00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:46.520
Hello...?

00:03:20.320 --> 00:03:22.080
Just before she died,

00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:25.480
Mom told me that
she had forgiven everything.

00:03:25.920 --> 00:03:28.520
I wonder how she could
have been so sure.

00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:06.240
In three hours a 52 year war
on Colombia will end.

00:04:06.720 --> 00:04:09.320
Orders for the ceasefire
have been given

00:04:09.480 --> 00:04:12.320
and both the military and
the guerrilla fighters

00:04:12.480 --> 00:04:16.160
will lay down their weapons...

00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:21.680
On June 27th a symbolic act
will take place

00:04:21.840 --> 00:04:25.200
between President Juan Manuel Santos
and the high command of the FARC...

00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:28.000
In the coming weeks
3,000 FARC guerrilla fighters...

00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:30.360
will go to the
transitional ceasefire areas

00:04:30.520 --> 00:04:33.120
to take part in the process
of laying down their weapons.

00:04:33.440 --> 00:04:37.120
The President of the Republic
of Colombia and the FARC commander

00:04:37.280 --> 00:04:40.240
will sign the final treaty
to end the conflict...

00:04:40.400 --> 00:04:42.680
It's been many years since
she was released.

00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:46.040
I would have never thought
that I'd witness the FARC

00:04:46.200 --> 00:04:49.440
laying down their weapons
and signing a peace agreement.

00:04:50.640 --> 00:04:52.720
Mom would have loved to see it.

00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.040
My brother and I
could never understand

00:04:57.200 --> 00:04:59.760
her affection for many
of the guerrilla fighters

00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:01.240
who held her captive

00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:05.040
and who might be there now,
dressed in white.

00:05:09.880 --> 00:05:13.240
Most of all, I remember how she
talked about Commander Güérima.

00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:16.480
Will they remember her?

00:05:16.640 --> 00:05:19.320
Or was she just another kidnapping
in their lives?

00:05:22.400 --> 00:05:25.080
If I tried to find them
and talk to them,

00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:27.640
maybe I could understand
Mom better.

00:05:30.320 --> 00:05:32.040
And now that they're
laying down their weapons,

00:05:32.200 --> 00:05:35.640
there's an opportunity
that was inconceivable before.

00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:54.040
ON THE OTHER SIDE

00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:10.160
Mom wrote a diary
during her captivity.

00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:12.840
She recorded every day.

00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:14.320
She numbered them.

00:06:14.640 --> 00:06:17.400
From the first day, describing
the exact moment she was taken

00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:19.600
along with her cousin Julio,

00:06:19.960 --> 00:06:21.440
to the last day

00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:24.360
when she finally calls herself
"free."

00:06:27.200 --> 00:06:29.680
It was 603 days.

00:06:33.640 --> 00:06:36.000
It's full of details we didn't know.

00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:41.920
We were incapable of listening to her

00:06:42.080 --> 00:06:44.600
when she talked about
her experience in the jungle,

00:06:47.760 --> 00:06:51.400
probably because we wanted
to avoid our own memories.

00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:07.320
During that time, I hid at home.

00:07:07.960 --> 00:07:09.960
I was afraid to go out.

00:07:10.840 --> 00:07:12.600
I hid behind my camera.

00:07:13.080 --> 00:07:16.880
Recording my daily routine
just like in a diary.

00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:23.240
Though I also went
to Mom's empty house sometimes.

00:07:25.320 --> 00:07:27.960
I haven't stopped recording since.

00:07:35.520 --> 00:07:38.120
In the diary she mentions
something about

00:07:38.280 --> 00:07:42.000
when she finds out
she's going to be your grandma.

00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:44.120
She found out through

00:07:44.280 --> 00:07:46.440
a radio show.

00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:50.480
Have you ever heard
of “Captive Voices”?

00:07:50.640 --> 00:07:52.040
It was a radio show

00:07:52.200 --> 00:07:54.720
in which the families
of the kidnapped

00:07:54.880 --> 00:07:57.160
called and left messages.

00:07:57.320 --> 00:07:58.600
They'd say something like:

00:07:58.760 --> 00:08:00.800
“Hi, Beatriz! Whatever...

00:08:00.960 --> 00:08:03.480
We love you, we think whatever..."

00:08:03.640 --> 00:08:05.840
And then she wrote in the diary:

00:08:06.200 --> 00:08:08.720
“I think Paula and Papeto
are parents again."

00:08:08.880 --> 00:08:10.880
And why was she kidnapped?

00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:13.520
Well, because...

00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:15.520
I think they made a mistake.

00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:16.600
Yes, they did.

00:08:16.760 --> 00:08:19.400
They mistook her for a rich woman,
which she wasn't.

00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:22.440
Yes, they made a mistake
about what she had

00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:26.200
but they took her thinking
that somehow we had something.

00:08:27.080 --> 00:08:30.720
One of the most brutal things is that,
of the guerrilla fighters,

00:08:30.880 --> 00:08:33.880
the oldest one was exactly my age:
26 years old.

00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:35.000
That was Güérima?

00:08:35.160 --> 00:08:36.800
That was Güérima:
Güérima was the boss.

00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:38.680
He was 26 years old,
same age as me.

00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:39.840
And the youngest

00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:41.400
was named Sandrita:

00:08:41.880 --> 00:08:44.520
-She was 13.
-No!

00:08:45.680 --> 00:08:47.440
But imagine:

00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:52.680
Mom taught two kids under 15
how to read.

00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:54.560
-Children!
-They were children.

00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:56.200
13 and 15 years old.

00:08:56.360 --> 00:08:58.800
Children who have no idea
why they're there.

00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:00.040
Children

00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:03.640
with no other choice,
they grew up there.

00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:06.200
Terrible yes, and they've done
terrible things,

00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:08.800
but what's more terrible
is the absence of the State,

00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:10.040
which denied them...

00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:13.840
I agree with that,
but you can't forgive because...

00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:16.640
No, I don't forgive.

00:09:16.800 --> 00:09:19.520
But you can't judge

00:09:19.680 --> 00:09:22.640
everyone on the same level,
otherwise...

00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:24.960
But was she tortured?

00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:26.920
Obviously they did things to her

00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:29.480
but taking away your freedom
is torture in itself.

00:09:29.640 --> 00:09:31.400
Sure, that's torture...

00:09:31.560 --> 00:09:34.840
And at times they made her wear...

00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:38.480
-What?
-They blindfolded her.

00:09:38.640 --> 00:09:41.560
When they were moving from
site to site on their rafts.

00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:45.160
They'd blindfold them and covered
them up on the floor like sacks

00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:49.000
so no one would notice
they were carrying hostages.

00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:53.640
And we were so far away from
each other, Pape was all alone.

00:09:53.800 --> 00:09:57.040
We were on opposite corners
of the Earth.

00:09:57.200 --> 00:10:01.200
I came in June for one month

00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:05.040
and we held many
different meetings.

00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:08.600
That's when I listened to the calls
the FARC made to my brother.

00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:11.240
And all of those are recorded.

00:10:11.400 --> 00:10:13.880
Was that when they set her free?

00:10:14.040 --> 00:10:17.600
No, 15 months later.
They didn't call again.

00:10:17.760 --> 00:10:20.200
The next call was Mom,

00:10:20.680 --> 00:10:22.640
calling me

00:10:22.800 --> 00:10:26.960
from Guacamayas,
a tiny village under guerrilla control.

00:10:28.040 --> 00:10:31.960
And there was a public phone booth,
there was just one...

00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:34.080
And they had been freed.

00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:36.480
And how did that call go, Pape?

00:11:08.560 --> 00:11:12.080
FIRST NIGHT?

00:11:26.520 --> 00:11:27.680
Yezid?

00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:32.640
Hi, this is Iván Guarnizo,
Juan told you...

00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:40.800
Yes, he gave me your number
and I didn't want to wait to call.

00:11:42.880 --> 00:11:46.200
Yes, she was taken in Guainía
Department, in Puerto Inírida.

00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:51.000
We believe she was near
the Guaviare River

00:11:51.160 --> 00:11:54.080
because of what she wrote,

00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:59.680
but we don't know for sure
where she was.

00:12:00.280 --> 00:12:03.080
I would like to,

00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:07.440
with all the reconciliation and with
what's happening in those areas,

00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:09.000
I would like to,

00:12:09.160 --> 00:12:13.720
if possible, find the people who
were with my mom during that time,

00:12:13.880 --> 00:12:15.160
just to talk to them.

00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:20.000
I really have no other intention
than to sit down and talk to them.

00:12:27.800 --> 00:12:29.520
-Hello?
-Hello, Susana?

00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:32.800
-Yes.
-Hi, my name is Iván Guarnizo.

00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:36.480
I'm not sure if Yezid
told you about me.

00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:40.160
-Oh! How are you?
-Fine and you?

00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:42.040
-How are things?
-Great.

00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:47.200
I don't know what he told you,
I don't know how much to tell you.

00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:49.680
Should I start from the beginning?
What do you think?

00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:51.480
No, but not on the phone.

00:12:51.640 --> 00:12:54.360
-Better to meet in person?
-Yes.

00:12:54.520 --> 00:12:56.120
Okay. What time?

00:12:56.280 --> 00:12:59.000
Let me invite you
to a coffee at my office.

00:12:59.160 --> 00:13:01.800
-Oh, great.
-After 9 AM.

00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:03.160
Okay. Perfect.

00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:08.760
On 15th Street...
and there you ask for my office.

00:13:08.920 --> 00:13:12.560
-Then 9 AM then?
-Yes, sweetie.

00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:16.160
Thank you so much for your help.

00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.840
See you tomorrow then.

00:13:32.560 --> 00:13:34.840
Could she have died?

00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:37.600
Yes, of course.

00:13:39.160 --> 00:13:42.600
She could have died
which was our fear.

00:13:42.760 --> 00:13:44.640
We didn't know what was going on.

00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:47.320
Sometimes I thought that

00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:50.480
she was already dead and that

00:13:51.280 --> 00:13:53.320
we'd never see her again.

00:13:54.800 --> 00:13:56.680
Terrible.

00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:00.280
Do you think you guys
suffered more than she did?

00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.480
It was different, I think.

00:14:05.160 --> 00:14:10.120
Let's say that she knew
where she was and how she was.

00:14:10.280 --> 00:14:12.680
But we didn't know anything.

00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:14.280
She knew where she was?

00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:20.200
She knew she was in the Colombian
jungle, but that she was alive.

00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:26.000
And eventually,
she adapted to her new life.

00:14:26.640 --> 00:14:29.240
You might say

00:14:29.400 --> 00:14:32.280
that's more bearable
than not knowing...

00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:33.960
anything,

00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:39.880
like us, we had no idea
if she was dead or alive,

00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:45.840
if she was being taken care of,
if they were treating her well or not,

00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:48.960
but she knew how she was.

00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:50.360
I think that's a little easier

00:14:50.520 --> 00:14:54.360
but painful as well,
not being able to go back

00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:57.160
to your family

00:14:57.520 --> 00:15:00.680
because you're being held captive.

00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:03.240
It's awful.

00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:12.800
We'll go there some day
with your uncle.

00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.200
Where she was taken.

00:15:17.160 --> 00:15:18.640
Would you like to go?

00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:24.960
-Too scary.
-But they're not there anymore.

00:15:25.880 --> 00:15:27.960
Fine, the FARC is gone.

00:15:30.040 --> 00:15:32.280
But what if there are other
guerrilla groups?

00:15:32.760 --> 00:15:34.800
There aren't any others there?

00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.640
Apparently not.
It seems to be peaceful now.

00:15:39.520 --> 00:15:41.600
Uncle Iván checked.

00:15:41.760 --> 00:15:44.240
I really don't think
I'd feel safe going there.

00:15:44.400 --> 00:15:45.840
-You wouldn't?
-What?

00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:48.000
-You wouldn't feel safe there?
-No.

00:15:48.160 --> 00:15:52.000
And if you go,
I wouldn't feel safe either.

00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.800
But I do want to go.

00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:03.680
But is there any chance that
you'd be kidnapped there?

00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:08.480
No. I wouldn't go if there was
a high chance of being kidnapped.

00:16:09.160 --> 00:16:10.840
No, I wouldn't go.

00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:16.320
-But is there a chance?
-No.

00:16:17.280 --> 00:16:19.760
There's no chance.

00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:23.840
Imagine me going through
everything you did at my age.

00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:26.280
You're so right.

00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:32.480
Before going, I'll make sure
there's no chance of being kidnapped.

00:16:32.640 --> 00:16:34.320
-Okay?
-Okay.

00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:48.080
-So, how was it?
-No, dude.

00:16:48.560 --> 00:16:52.720
This woman belongs to the FARC.
But not as a fighter, I think.

00:16:56.560 --> 00:17:01.280
Basically, she's going to give
a letter I wrote in front of her

00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:03.520
to the High Command.

00:17:03.680 --> 00:17:05.640
Today!

00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.880
Damn! And what did you write?

00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.280
Well...

00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:16.760
what I was doing,

00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:20.480
first of all I told her...

00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.000
I told her everything.

00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:28.040
I told her that Mom was kidnapped,
where, how,

00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:30.120
that she had died,

00:17:30.280 --> 00:17:34.760
that I thought that a part of
the aftermath and reconciliation

00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:38.920
was to meet and talk
with those guys.

00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:42.720
And then she told me
some nasty things,

00:17:43.120 --> 00:17:45.440
things we have to be prepared for.

00:17:45.600 --> 00:17:47.640
She told me:
“From what you're telling me,

00:17:47.800 --> 00:17:49.240
here are some things:

00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:50.560
First:

00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:55.600
It's most likely that your mother
was taken by the 16th Front,

00:17:56.280 --> 00:17:59.360
But that it was the 1st Front
which held her.

00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:01.840
And the 1st front
is now the dissidence.”

00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:05.480
Then she also told me:

00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:09.760
“Four years ago,
when the peace talks began,

00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:12.080
a bombardment killed
40 fighters

00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.080
and another killed 60
all at once."

00:18:17.360 --> 00:18:22.080
And that means anything
could have happened...

00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:25.160
-They could be anywhere.
-Exactly.

00:18:26.800 --> 00:18:28.840
KIDNAPPING

00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:34.800
Mom had gone on vacation
to the Guanía jungles

00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:36.720
in southern Colombia.

00:18:37.320 --> 00:18:39.560
While there, she was kidnapped.

00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:42.360
1ST NIGHT?

00:18:42.520 --> 00:18:47.040
The diaries mention the places
where she spent the first five days.

00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:50.800
Then her tracks are lost
in the jungle.

00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.920
LAST TRACE

00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.160
In those years an army general told us

00:19:07.320 --> 00:19:10.360
they knew exactly where
she was being held.

00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:14.320
Near this river.

00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.480
But that a rescue operation
was impossible

00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:19.040
as there weren't
any military bases nearby.

00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:23.680
I was glad it was impossible,

00:19:23.840 --> 00:19:28.280
because the FARC had threatened
to execute anyone to be rescued.

00:19:38.600 --> 00:19:41.720
That was my fear until the day
she came back.

00:20:28.080 --> 00:20:30.240
The first day Mom wrote:

00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.680
“Yesterday morning we were
traveling to the Mavicure hills.

00:20:33.840 --> 00:20:36.720
At a river bend, two guerrilla rafts
suddenly appeared

00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:38.960
and made us get off
at a beach.

00:20:39.120 --> 00:20:42.320
A one-eyed man, who introduced
himself as commander Hugo,

00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:45.840
took a list out of his pocket
and called Julio.

00:20:46.280 --> 00:20:49.120
Then he asked
who Beatriz Echeverry was.

00:20:49.280 --> 00:20:51.240
My heart nearly exploded.

00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:54.640
I said it was me.
They took us on their rafts.

00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:56.840
We traveled all day long.

00:20:57.280 --> 00:21:01.040
Julio and I went in silence,
holding hands the whole time.

00:21:02.520 --> 00:21:06.440
We crossed rapids and they carried
the rafts on their shoulders.

00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:08.640
They're very strong people."

00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:35.120
Then, according to the diaries,
they crossed the hills?

00:21:35.840 --> 00:21:40.000
Yes, but after they were taken.
They stopped them here.

00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:43.560
They stopped them and then
they sailed towards the hills.

00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:47.640
They went that way,
not towards Caño Bocón.

00:21:47.800 --> 00:21:48.960
The other way.

00:22:40.080 --> 00:22:43.200
It's so strange to be here
and remember so many things.

00:22:44.040 --> 00:22:48.320
This place, which was always
in our imagination like a nightmare

00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:49.960
is now real.

00:22:54.360 --> 00:22:56.360
That day changed everything.

00:22:57.320 --> 00:22:58.640
From then on,

00:22:59.280 --> 00:23:04.160
we and Mom both lived hanging on
what was on the other side of the phone.

00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:10.160
This is "Captive Voices," dedicated
to all of Colombia's kidnapped.

00:23:10.520 --> 00:23:15.600
If you are a guerrilla guarding
a hostage right now,

00:23:15.760 --> 00:23:19.240
we earnestly ask you
to give them a radio set.

00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:21.600
If they're asleep,
please, wake them up.

00:23:21.760 --> 00:23:25.760
If they are walking,
please stop for a minute.

00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:29.760
The hostage hearing their family
will not challenge you.

00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:36.240
They'll walk, eat and be
someone easier to guard.

00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:38.840
Thus we begin this program
with a message

00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:41.280
for Beatriz Echeverry
and Julio Arango.

00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:43.880
We really hope they can hear
this message.

00:23:45.520 --> 00:23:47.040
Good morning.

00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:50.680
Thank you so much
for this lovely opportunity

00:23:50.840 --> 00:23:53.600
to communicate with our loved ones.

00:23:53.760 --> 00:23:58.320
Julio: you are in our thoughts
during this hardship.

00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:01.760
We pray for Beatriz, for you
and for the rest of the hostages...

00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.960
Did you ever want to call, Pape?
The radio show?

00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:11.760
No. I didn't know
how important it was.

00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:16.720
I didn't know how important
it was for them.

00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:18.560
Me neither.

00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.160
But I called a couple of times

00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.000
and I got blocked.

00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:28.080
Did you really call?

00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:32.200
I did and they said:
“You're going on the air."

00:24:32.360 --> 00:24:35.720
And right before, I said:
“No, no...” and hung up.

00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:41.040
That's so hard, Iván.
I'm only finding out now.

00:24:46.840 --> 00:24:48.000
Damn!

00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:57.360
And since when
were they with Güérima?

00:24:57.520 --> 00:25:01.520
-Güérima arrived on the third day.
-The third day.

00:25:16.320 --> 00:25:18.760
Did you ever talk about it
with Paula?

00:25:19.600 --> 00:25:22.840
Before splitting up, when you
realized things weren't working out?

00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:27.400
-Or was it never mentioned?
-No, never. We never did.

00:25:27.800 --> 00:25:33.840
What I did was try to close
that gap so that

00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:38.720
nobody else would have
to go through what I was.

00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:40.240
You understand?

00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:45.440
To close that door so Paula
wouldn't talk about it

00:25:45.600 --> 00:25:49.920
and wouldn't suffer,
but it was much worse.

00:25:51.800 --> 00:25:53.560
It was awful.

00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:59.680
Because all I did every day

00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:04.320
was wait for these men to call

00:26:05.600 --> 00:26:08.120
to see what was happening.

00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:12.080
The first call
was like after one month.

00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:20.480
But I started preparing way before,

00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:25.000
and I was panicking even though
they hadn't called.

00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:29.680
I had everything ready to record...

00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:32.160
It was...

00:26:33.520 --> 00:26:35.680
I don't know, very hard.

00:26:55.800 --> 00:27:00.760
Hello? Please, tell me again,
I don't understand.

00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.960
-Can I speak with Beatriz' son?
-I'm Beatriz' son.

00:27:06.840 --> 00:27:09.440
-What?
-I'm Beatriz' son.

00:27:12.080 --> 00:27:16.760
-So, how do we do this?
-Is there any way I can speak to her?

00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:21.960
-Huh?
-Can I speak to her?

00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:28.480
Hello?

00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.160
Ready? The question is:

00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.640
Which song does she sing

00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.440
to her granddaughter
to put her to sleep?

00:27:42.280 --> 00:27:45.640
Okay, which song does she sing

00:27:45.800 --> 00:27:48.400
to her granddaughter
to put her to sleep?

00:27:48.560 --> 00:27:49.760
That's right.

00:27:54.320 --> 00:27:55.440
Hello?

00:27:55.600 --> 00:27:57.720
What's up, bro? How's everything?

00:27:58.480 --> 00:27:59.760
All right.

00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:03.520
-How's my mom?
-She's fine.

00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:05.520
Have you seen her?

00:28:06.360 --> 00:28:09.400
Yeah, she's all right,
everything is fine.

00:28:09.560 --> 00:28:15.520
And about the cash:
I'll never get that much.

00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:18.320
Are you out of your minds?

00:28:21.520 --> 00:28:26.600
Okay, it's like this:
You have until December.

00:28:26.760 --> 00:28:28.080
Until when?

00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:31.480
You have until December.

00:28:33.360 --> 00:28:35.600
But until December for what?

00:28:35.760 --> 00:28:38.640
Because we haven't reached
an agreement.

00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:42.480
What's up?

00:28:44.120 --> 00:28:47.520
I have no clue if my mom
is alive or not, bro.

00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:50.480
I'm not talking about
anything else.

00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:11.520
“Day 6. Monday April 12th, 2004.

00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:14.520
We got up very early.

00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:18.400
We got ready to leave
and they sang the FARC anthem.

00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:22.960
We marched all day through the jungle
but it's very hard for me.

00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:29.320
Güérima, the new commander,
carried me several times

00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:32.080
because I couldn't go on anymore.

00:29:32.520 --> 00:29:34.480
When we stopped to sleep

00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:37.480
our feet were full of blisters
and quite sore."

00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:44.240
"Day 11. Saturday.

00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:48.160
There are too many mosquitoes,
we can't stand it.

00:29:48.320 --> 00:29:51.520
We spend most of our time
under the mosquito net.

00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:56.200
Before lunch, they killed
two scorpions beside our cove.

00:29:57.040 --> 00:29:58.320
That makes 4.

00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:01.200
It rained for a while
in the afternoon,

00:30:01.600 --> 00:30:04.480
Güérima told us that we were
moving to another camp.

00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:06.560
They gave us boots
and camouflaged clothing.

00:30:07.120 --> 00:30:10.280
At dusk they took us
blindfolded to a raft.

00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:14.240
We arrived at a new place.
It looks better."

00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:20.960
"Day 30, Tuesday.

00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:23.520
We've been kidnapped
for a month.

00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:25.680
Our mood is at rock bottom.

00:30:25.840 --> 00:30:29.280
Days are very much alike,
always the same routine.

00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:32.960
It poured this morning,
everything is muddy.

00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:37.240
Güérima ordered them to build
a wood platform for our beds.

00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:40.840
Yesterday we began
breathing exercises.

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:42.680
They help us to relax a bit.

00:30:44.040 --> 00:30:48.080
This is very hard, we feel
a great pain in our souls.

00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:51.280
We think this is going to be long.

00:30:53.360 --> 00:30:56.000
Day 99, Sunday.

00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:00.640
This is definitely the snake camp,
every day we see more.

00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:04.320
I was smoking
the last cigarette of the day

00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:06.600
and when I put it out with my foot
I stepped on something weird.

00:31:06.760 --> 00:31:07.840
It was pitch-black.

00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:12.040
When I turned the flashlight on
I saw a snake watching me.

00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:14.360
I don't know how it didn't bite me.

00:31:15.040 --> 00:31:19.680
I screamed and they came to kill it.
It was over two meters long.

00:31:20.320 --> 00:31:23.680
At night we heard a plane fly by."

00:32:11.960 --> 00:32:12.760
Come on!

00:32:54.600 --> 00:32:58.480
Many days she just writes:
"The same routine."

00:33:00.040 --> 00:33:01.960
She stops mentioning
the animals stalking her

00:33:02.120 --> 00:33:04.760
and you can tell she doesn't
feel like writing.

00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:09.560
She also suffers from kidney disease,
about which she says:

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.920
"A serious illness in this jungle
can be lethal."

00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:17.960
When 8 months have passed,
I find another long entry:

00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:27.280
“The boys finally realized that they
have to give me less food.

00:33:27.800 --> 00:33:30.240
At night they invited us
to their ‘entertainment hour.'

00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:33.360
We sang songs
and recited verses with them.

00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:38.160
Güérima made me a sewing needle
by melting the lead from his bullets.

00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:41.720
I'll start by knitting a belt.”

00:34:00.080 --> 00:34:02.520
He made her a sewing needle
with his bullets.

00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:09.200
Later she writes that she started
knitting things for him,

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:12.240
even a rifle holder.

00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:17.240
Now I'm beginning to understand
how close she felt to him.

00:34:18.680 --> 00:34:22.480
Although I know damn well those
bullets weren't meant for needlepoint.

00:35:00.680 --> 00:35:03.640
On day 505 she writes:

00:35:04.240 --> 00:35:06.200
"The plane flew over several times.

00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:08.720
The hen didn't produce any chicks.

00:35:09.120 --> 00:35:11.320
We feel abandoned by everyone,

00:35:11.480 --> 00:35:13.600
we don't have any news from anyone.

00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:17.760
We feel so depressed,
we hardly speak.

00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:23.120
Last night talking with Güérima

00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:25.680
we tried to find a way out
of our situation

00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:28.640
because we're sinking
little by little.”

00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:39.440
Reading Mom like that fills me
with helplessness and rage,

00:35:40.520 --> 00:35:43.680
but at the same time
I have a strange gratitude,

00:35:44.200 --> 00:35:47.760
because now I feel like someone
was really looking out for them.

00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:54.280
Do you remember
that I told you many times

00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:57.280
that I never felt hate
or that I moved on?

00:35:57.440 --> 00:35:58.440
Yes.

00:35:59.040 --> 00:36:00.640
These days

00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:04.360
I'm feeling it again.

00:36:04.520 --> 00:36:05.960
-You are?
-Yes.

00:36:07.080 --> 00:36:09.000
Towards Hugo?

00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:14.320
Yes, Hugo, or whoever decided
to snatch Mom.

00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:18.160
I know it wasn't Güérima or any
of the boys that took care of her,

00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:20.440
but someone decided...

00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:22.360
To fuck up her life.

00:36:22.520 --> 00:36:25.360
And I've seen

00:36:27.040 --> 00:36:29.560
how much my mom must have suffered.

00:36:31.520 --> 00:36:34.680
Because in these last seven
or five days we've been here,

00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:37.360
we've been through hardships

00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:41.080
and I bet they aren't half of the things

00:36:41.240 --> 00:36:44.360
Mom had to go through
her first five days.

00:36:44.520 --> 00:36:46.080
Yeah, bro.

00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.360
Pape...

00:36:56.520 --> 00:36:58.880
Do you still want to meet Güérima?

00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.000
Yes...

00:37:01.680 --> 00:37:03.760
Of course I want to meet him,

00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:07.160
as long as it doesn't put
either of us at risk.

00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:13.240
Of course I want to meet him.

00:40:23.680 --> 00:40:27.040
Hey, do you think that's
the Native Council?

00:40:30.720 --> 00:40:32.360
Yes, sir.

00:40:32.520 --> 00:40:38.000
The problem right now,
with all due respect,

00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:48.520
is that to let someone enter this sector
I have to write a permit.

00:40:48.680 --> 00:40:52.960
We have 17 communities out here
and a little bit further up

00:40:53.120 --> 00:40:56.960
people are very...
How do I say this?

00:40:57.720 --> 00:40:59.480
Vigilant.

00:40:59.640 --> 00:41:04.800
And up there, around Zancudo,
the situation is very complicated.

00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:08.640
-Complicated why?
-Armed conflict.

00:41:10.080 --> 00:41:13.520
Look, in order not to waste
any more or your time,

00:41:13.680 --> 00:41:18.480
I'm very sorry to say
that I think...

00:41:18.640 --> 00:41:21.760
your journey is over.

00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:28.680
I'm telling you this because
the people up there are vigilant.

00:41:48.040 --> 00:41:52.160
Today we have a very special
guest on our show.

00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.040
She was kidnapped in 2004.

00:41:55.200 --> 00:41:58.600
Good evening.
Thank you for having me.

00:41:59.080 --> 00:42:03.920
Did you ever lose the will to live
when you were there?

00:42:04.080 --> 00:42:08.400
Sometimes, yes.
There were very, very hard moments,

00:42:08.560 --> 00:42:12.240
and I... I wanted to die,
or to be killed.

00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:16.320
How did you feel
when you saw

00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:20.800
your whole family again
after being gone for two years?

00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:24.920
Yes... It was very, very emotional.

00:42:25.080 --> 00:42:28.240
I thought I was never going to see
my sons again.

00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.200
It was something...

00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:34.000
really indescribable.

00:42:34.560 --> 00:42:37.200
What message can we send

00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:40.520
to all the hostages in Colombia?

00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:43.440
Well, first of all,

00:42:43.600 --> 00:42:46.560
to have faith and hope

00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:51.440
and to always stay active.
Don't give up.

00:42:51.600 --> 00:42:54.000
Don't lose hope.

00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:57.760
Survive, survive, survive.

00:43:13.600 --> 00:43:17.480
Yes, but the whole 20 months
would be a long time.

00:43:19.680 --> 00:43:24.560
-Of course, but mostly the people...
-That held us?

00:43:24.720 --> 00:43:26.520
That's what I'm asking.

00:43:26.680 --> 00:43:31.000
Give a detailed account
of your kidnapping

00:43:31.160 --> 00:43:35.360
-and this will be under oath.
-Okay, then.

00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:40.800
On April 7th, 2004,

00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:47.480
we were going down the Inírida River

00:43:49.080 --> 00:43:51.200
to visit the Mavicure Hills...

00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:56.080
I don't remember how long it took Mom
to tell the prosecutor her story.

00:43:57.440 --> 00:44:00.560
What I do remember is that
I wasn't really listening.

00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:05.480
Although I liked being with her

00:44:05.640 --> 00:44:07.520
and seeing her smile.

00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:13.160
When the story got darker

00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:16.640
I went to record other places
in her home she had lived in again.

00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:33.520
The painting in her room
showing a woman with a fan

00:44:33.680 --> 00:44:37.120
made me think of the one she always
had with her during her captivity

00:44:37.720 --> 00:44:40.400
and that I had given her
a few years before.

00:44:41.520 --> 00:44:44.520
A fan that, like the needle,
she had brought back with her

00:44:44.680 --> 00:44:47.000
as one of the few belongings
of her life in the jungle.

00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:56.880
When I got back to her story,

00:44:57.040 --> 00:45:00.320
I preferred to record her
through the glass or in a reflection,

00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:03.960
seeing how she smoked
or how her hands were now,

00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:08.320
as if it could tell me something
I wasn't able to see in her words.

00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:34.280
And that's it.
We reached freedom.

00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:11.680
It's been almost a year
since we started searching

00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:14.840
and we haven't found
any of the guerrillas.

00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:18.560
The FARC person to whom
I passed the names in the diary

00:46:18.720 --> 00:46:20.640
doesn't answer my calls anymore.

00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:23.920
However,

00:46:24.080 --> 00:46:27.600
another contact I've made gives me
a list with hundreds of guerrillas

00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:29.840
demobilized during the peace process.

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:31.880
There are many repeated names:

00:46:32.040 --> 00:46:35.120
Sandras, Pablos, Williams...

00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.600
There's only one Güérima.
Only one.

00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:41.040
It has to be him.

00:46:41.200 --> 00:46:43.520
Knowing his name and where
he surrendered his weapons

00:46:43.680 --> 00:46:46.720
should be enough to find him.

00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:53.360
But in recent months more and more
ex-guerrillas have been killed.

00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:02.960
Yes, I'm good.
It's been several months

00:47:03.120 --> 00:47:07.000
and I know you said
you would call me but...

00:47:08.720 --> 00:47:11.840
Maybe asking a colleagues from
inside the organization or something,

00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:14.600
telling them my situation
to help me look for the boys.

00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:19.400
Now it is not the time
to ask absolutely anything.

00:47:21.120 --> 00:47:23.080
...someone to contact me
just to make my case.

00:47:23.240 --> 00:47:26.840
I won't record them or anything,
I just want them to hear me out.

00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:29.320
I'm saying stay calm and wait...

00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:31.040
Absolutely unapproachable...

00:47:31.200 --> 00:47:33.040
But have you already talked to him?

00:47:33.200 --> 00:47:35.200
I know he exists because...

00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:36.720
People want to kill them...

00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:38.960
I think they're an interesting contact.

00:47:39.120 --> 00:47:44.040
That's one hell of a contact!
Please call them and ask them.

00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:55.080
Finally I reached someone who gave me
a number that could be his.

00:47:56.640 --> 00:48:00.120
I'm not sure if I'm ready
to call him yet.

00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:48.000
-Hello?
-Hello, Güérima?

00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:50.120
Yes, sir.
Who am I speaking to?

00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:53.960
Look, Güérima...
I want to say...

00:48:54.120 --> 00:48:56.720
I'm so glad that I found you.

00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:59.560
First I want you to know
that I'm calling with a lot of love.

00:48:59.720 --> 00:49:02.800
-My name is Iván Guarnizo.
-Iván Guarnizo...

00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:05.560
I'm Beatriz Echeverry's son.

00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.960
Do you know who I'm talking about?

00:49:10.120 --> 00:49:13.880
Yes. I was told that...

00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:17.560
-Hello?
-Hi.

00:49:17.720 --> 00:49:18.920
Yes...

00:49:19.080 --> 00:49:25.880
Are you from the Mimbre TV network?
They said they'd call me today about...

00:49:26.040 --> 00:49:30.000
Yes, but Beatriz Echeverry, well...

00:49:30.160 --> 00:49:33.040
You were with her around
the Guainía River.

00:49:33.200 --> 00:49:34.360
Yes, sir!

00:49:34.520 --> 00:49:38.760
-Yes? Around 12 years ago.
-Yes, sir, of course.

00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:40.960
Ah... I'm glad you remember.

00:49:41.120 --> 00:49:44.640
Those things, despite circumstances,
you never forget them

00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:47.200
because in those moments...

00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:49.800
You get attached to people...

00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:55.080
And I was thinking about it
a couple of weeks ago,

00:49:55.240 --> 00:49:57.360
wondering if they were
still around or not...

00:49:57.520 --> 00:50:02.080
Well, my mom always remembered
you with a lot of love.

00:50:02.240 --> 00:50:05.320
-Oh, she's your mom?
-She's my mom.

00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:08.040
Oh... damn, really?

00:50:08.200 --> 00:50:11.120
-What a surprise!
-Yes, sir.

00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:14.480
Oh, brother... how's your mom?

00:50:14.640 --> 00:50:19.280
Well, my mom died
a few years ago, in 2012.

00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:22.920
Oh, I'm so sorry, bro, I really am.

00:50:23.080 --> 00:50:26.160
Yes, she died right after

00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:29.120
the peace talks were announced...

00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:31.960
Right before they announced them.

00:50:32.120 --> 00:50:33.880
And...

00:50:35.600 --> 00:50:40.120
And... Look, she told me...

00:50:44.080 --> 00:50:46.560
She told me that she had forgiven you,

00:50:46.720 --> 00:50:49.240
that she was very fond of you

00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:53.400
and all she wanted was for no one else
to have to go through what she had.

00:50:54.080 --> 00:50:58.200
Yeah, of course. What we did,
we did it from the heart.

00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:03.640
Fortunately I know that
Mrs. Betica and Mr. Julio

00:51:03.800 --> 00:51:07.480
were fully aware that
I took care of them

00:51:07.640 --> 00:51:11.120
when they came to me, I mean...
I don't want to deny my involvement,

00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:15.840
not at all, but I took care of them
when they were handed over to me.

00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:19.600
From that moment on, I tried to,
I don't know if she told you,

00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:23.680
I struggled to,
despite the conditions,

00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:26.320
despite the terrible situation,

00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:29.800
I tried to make things
as good as possible for them.

00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:32.200
Yes, she...

00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:35.560
I don't know if you remember
that she kept a diary,

00:51:35.720 --> 00:51:37.280
a diary you let her write.

00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:40.400
I fought with her
to bring it back with her.

00:51:40.560 --> 00:51:43.120
Yes, she brought it back

00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:46.480
and that's how I found out
about your relationship,

00:51:46.640 --> 00:51:49.760
how close and caring you were.

00:51:50.080 --> 00:51:54.760
And, well, I've spent a year and a half
looking for you, brother.

00:51:55.280 --> 00:51:57.720
You're a hard man to find.

00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:00.840
But of course you didn't know
that I was looking for you.

00:52:02.080 --> 00:52:06.960
And look, I make movies...

00:52:07.120 --> 00:52:10.320
and I'm making a movie
about this whole thing,

00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:12.920
about what is going on today.

00:52:13.080 --> 00:52:16.720
And there are many things
I would love to discuss with you.

00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:19.680
I would like to meet you, Güérima.

00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:23.640
Of course, brother!
Jeez, you gave me goosebumps!

00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:27.040
When we were there
with your mother

00:52:27.200 --> 00:52:28.760
one day she told me...

00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:33.600
And I can describe the place
in detail where one day she said:

00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:37.720
“Come here, son. Sit down.
Let me tell you something.”

00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:40.160
And I said:
“Okay, Betica, what's up?"

00:52:40.520 --> 00:52:43.640
"How are you feeling? Are you sick?”
She said me: “No, no, no."

00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:45.800
"It so happens that my son works

00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:48.120
in the movie business,
" something like that,

00:52:48.280 --> 00:52:50.880
she told me your story and said:

00:52:51.040 --> 00:52:55.160
“One day I have to make a movie
about this, a documentary,

00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:57.240
and you have to be in it!”

00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:00.040
Did she really tell you that?

00:55:57.520 --> 00:55:59.440
-And this one...
-What?

00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:09.080
-So this trail took eight hours?
-Yes, more or less. But quickly.

00:56:09.240 --> 00:56:10.800
Quickly.

00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:14.040
-On foot?
-Yes. It was a wide trail.

00:56:14.200 --> 00:56:18.960
Guacamayas, that's around there.

00:56:19.120 --> 00:56:22.240
How many days
did you walk from here?

00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:25.560
-They were here...
-Caño Bocón.

00:56:25.720 --> 00:56:27.600
They were snatched here.

00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:32.400
And then they went
all the way down to...

00:56:32.560 --> 00:56:37.600
What I'm saying is, they got here,
they reached this area.

00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:40.200
Because this is...

00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:43.520
Caño Mica.
From there you went up

00:56:43.680 --> 00:56:47.720
and the village was here,
around this river bend.

00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:50.680
-That's how far they got.
-Damn! That's far!

00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:55.640
And this trail takes 8 hours to walk.

00:56:55.800 --> 00:56:59.200
We met around this part of the trail,

00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:01.320
from Caño Viña to there.

00:57:01.720 --> 00:57:03.480
Crossing through.

00:57:03.640 --> 00:57:05.800
Now, once we had them,

00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:09.080
we walked for about three days

00:57:09.400 --> 00:57:10.480
and that's where

00:57:10.640 --> 00:57:12.840
I set up camp by the Guaviare River.

00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:17.880
By the Guaviare. My Mom always
thought they were smaller branches.

00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:26.720
-That's the Inirida River.
-The Inirida. Is this one the Guaviare?

00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:30.640
Yes, that's the Guaviare.

00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:33.920
Look, this is Güérima.

00:57:34.080 --> 00:57:35.680
Yes, Güérima, Vichada.

00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:38.640
Do you have something
to do with this town?

00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:40.200
I enlisted myself there.

00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:42.120
-In the guerrilla?
-Yes.

00:57:43.080 --> 00:57:45.080
Have you ever been back to Güérima?

00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:49.240
I went back in 2009.

00:57:49.400 --> 00:57:52.240
That's when I was wounded,
they broke my hands.

00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:55.120
-What happened?
-They ordered me

00:57:55.280 --> 00:57:57.360
to go back there with guerrillas.

00:57:57.520 --> 00:58:01.480
-Güérima, Príncipe. That area.
-Yes. I went from Nápoles,

00:58:01.640 --> 00:58:03.320
through the jungle.

00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:07.880
There I was ambushed on a road,

00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:11.040
and after 15 minutes of combat

00:58:11.800 --> 00:58:13.920
we were pushed back,

00:58:14.080 --> 00:58:16.560
a soldier and I were shooting
at each other...

00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:21.160
When I caught a glimpse of something,
I turned my head and looked...

00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:23.720
and I saw someone's shadow

00:58:24.120 --> 00:58:27.120
-like 10 meters away.
-Behind you?

00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:29.320
On my side. I went to aim
my rifle at him

00:58:29.480 --> 00:58:31.040
but he shot me first.

00:58:31.200 --> 00:58:33.120
The first round he fired hit this hand.

00:58:33.880 --> 00:58:37.600
I fell to the ground and he shot me
three times in this hand.

00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:39.440
When I went down I leaned on my elbow

00:58:39.600 --> 00:58:42.840
and aimed my rifle at him
but he was already standing over me.

00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:45.000
-Over you?
-Yeah, he shot me again.

00:58:45.160 --> 00:58:47.360
-Four more rounds.
-Where?

00:58:48.120 --> 00:58:50.680
The bullets went through...
This one entered here,

00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:53.960
this other one cut through here,

00:58:54.120 --> 00:58:56.160
and this one went through the bone.

00:58:56.320 --> 00:59:00.320
Same as this one, it went head-on

00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:05.160
and this one grazed
part of the bone and fractured it.

00:59:08.920 --> 00:59:13.600
It took six months for the wounds
to heal completely.

00:59:14.160 --> 00:59:18.360
And then they took me to Venezuela.

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:31.000
Within the organization,
our missions were fragmented.

00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:35.840
-What was exactly your mission?
-To take care of them.

00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:38.840
But that was the only time...

00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:42.560
-The only time you guarded hostages.
-Yes, sir, hostages.

00:59:42.720 --> 00:59:44.920
-Hostages.
-Yes, that was the only time.

00:59:47.360 --> 00:59:50.760
I never supported that,
the abductions.

00:59:50.920 --> 00:59:52.440
Didn't you?

00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:55.080
No, never.

01:00:05.080 --> 01:00:08.760
-Remember the song?
-I think so.

01:00:38.080 --> 01:00:40.560
Today I was remembering
something about Mom.

01:00:40.720 --> 01:00:42.320
Remember the needle
you made for her?

01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:44.120
Of course!

01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:48.960
-Here it is.
-Damn.

01:00:58.240 --> 01:01:02.160
-I made it with a fishing hook.
-And this part here?

01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:04.200
This was...

01:01:05.800 --> 01:01:08.320
lead from the bullets.

01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:12.000
I melted them, I melted a few.

01:01:12.880 --> 01:01:14.680
And put them on a stick

01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:17.560
which I used as a cast

01:01:18.080 --> 01:01:20.400
and then I inserted

01:01:20.840 --> 01:01:24.160
the hook, the fishing hook.

01:01:24.640 --> 01:01:27.520
and when I was inserting it...

01:01:27.680 --> 01:01:33.040
The blade was red hot and I
accidentally stuck it through here.

01:01:33.200 --> 01:01:34.480
Really?

01:01:35.240 --> 01:01:39.200
Yeah, I cut myself that day
but it didn't bleed, it turned black.

01:01:39.360 --> 01:01:41.520
It burned, it cauterized itself.

01:01:41.680 --> 01:01:45.160
The nail got cured but the rest...

01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:48.320
Yeah, I made this needle
for Mrs. Betica...

01:01:50.240 --> 01:01:51.840
Damn!

01:01:52.720 --> 01:01:55.200
-Unbelievable, eh?
-Yeah.

01:01:55.360 --> 01:01:59.280
-She knitted a lot with it.
-Yeah, I have a belt she made.

01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:04.200
-She knitted things for you, right?
-Yeah, sure.

01:02:04.360 --> 01:02:07.520
-Did you keep any of it?
-The rifle holder.

01:02:07.680 --> 01:02:11.160
You have that holder?
I'd love to see that someday, Güérima.

01:02:11.320 --> 01:02:14.320
You have to show it to me,
because I'd like to see

01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:16.560
a crochet-knitted rifle holder.

01:02:16.720 --> 01:02:19.360
I bet you don't see many of those.

01:02:30.680 --> 01:02:34.960
“Day 91. Tuesday.

01:02:35.640 --> 01:02:37.960
Same routine.

01:02:38.720 --> 01:02:40.120
Today...

01:02:42.440 --> 01:02:44.840
but last night as well,

01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:48.960
they went hunting
and killed a big Paca.

01:02:49.120 --> 01:02:51.040
And a white caiman.

01:02:51.680 --> 01:02:53.160
A chilaco.

01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:54.640
A duck."

01:02:54.800 --> 01:02:57.280
"Day 92. July.

01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:04.000
Today it's been three months
since we were abducted. Same routine."

01:03:04.720 --> 01:03:08.960
"Day 93. Same routine.”

01:03:13.720 --> 01:03:17.560
When I was reading
the diaries thoroughly,

01:03:19.520 --> 01:03:24.320
I started compiling a list

01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:28.280
of all the things Mom did
not to lose her mind,

01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:31.960
to stay strong, you know?
That routine she mentions.

01:03:32.120 --> 01:03:34.160
-Yes.
-Writing,

01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:37.200
playing cards with Julio
or having a chat with you.

01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:40.800
Sometimes she writes: “Last night
we were up late talking to Güérima."

01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:42.880
-She said that you talk a lot.
-Yes, we did.

01:03:43.520 --> 01:03:46.640
Or knitting...

01:03:48.560 --> 01:03:52.120
I have to say, man, these things

01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:57.160
made me feel really angry with you,

01:03:58.040 --> 01:04:00.800
but you know now how I feel.

01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:02.080
Of course.

01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:07.520
But that anger really
took me by surprise,

01:04:08.640 --> 01:04:09.920
because...

01:04:10.920 --> 01:04:13.960
because I know you took care of them

01:04:14.120 --> 01:04:16.800
and, from what I read here
and what Mom told us,

01:04:16.960 --> 01:04:19.040
you took care of them
the best you could.

01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:21.000
But...

01:04:22.400 --> 01:04:25.200
at the same time,
and at that time...

01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:27.000
I know you were following orders,

01:04:27.160 --> 01:04:30.160
but you were also responsible
for her being held there.

01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:32.280
Yes, of course, Iván,
I totally understand.

01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:34.720
I would feel the same way

01:04:34.880 --> 01:04:39.080
if my mother had been kidnapped,
it's not just “someone”...

01:04:39.240 --> 01:04:40.680
It's very human,

01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:44.440
and completely understandable.

01:04:44.600 --> 01:04:47.520
Even when we agreed to meet,

01:04:47.680 --> 01:04:50.320
I was worried about that,

01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:52.120
about your reaction.

01:04:52.520 --> 01:04:54.040
It's logical.

01:04:54.560 --> 01:04:57.960
And that didn't happen only to you, it
happened to every family, every child,

01:04:58.120 --> 01:05:01.200
every parent who had to go through
that same situation.

01:05:02.120 --> 01:05:03.760
It's completely understandable.

01:05:04.560 --> 01:05:06.480
And like I said,

01:05:06.640 --> 01:05:09.000
looking back now,

01:05:09.160 --> 01:05:13.040
I feel like we appreciate each other

01:05:13.200 --> 01:05:14.960
and that's something to admire

01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:18.480
because this has been a test

01:05:19.200 --> 01:05:21.520
that you've had to overcome.

01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:27.440
-Yeah, bro.
-Of course.

01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:46.080
What is the situation in Cauca?

01:05:46.400 --> 01:05:49.960
The ex-FARC combatant
was shot five times

01:05:50.120 --> 01:05:54.680
in a park in Argelia, Cauca
while he was with friends.

01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:58.080
He was a comrade
who was part of the FARC...

01:05:58.240 --> 01:06:01.480
We're Colombians too
and we want another chance.

01:06:01.640 --> 01:06:03.200
Because it was a hard life,

01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:08.640
but what matters is we're here
facing up to what we did.

01:06:09.200 --> 01:06:10.480
Here we are.

01:06:10.640 --> 01:06:14.080
Like I said on the phone, out here,
the dog barks and you get worried.

01:06:14.480 --> 01:06:15.200
Yeah.

01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:19.760
When we were armed we said:
“Let them come, I have my rifle.”

01:06:20.120 --> 01:06:25.680
But now I'm scared
and I have to hide in bed and wait.

01:06:27.160 --> 01:06:28.920
You get worried, scared,

01:06:29.080 --> 01:06:30.960
things are a mess, Iván.

01:06:32.480 --> 01:06:36.880
Anyone can understand,

01:06:37.040 --> 01:06:40.120
after a whole life
in the middle of an armed conflict

01:06:40.280 --> 01:06:43.280
like the one we had.
And I'm not young anymore,

01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:46.800
-starting a new life just like that?
-Of course, you're making a fresh start.

01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:51.280
What many of us did in our twenties.

01:06:52.160 --> 01:06:55.640
The victim was in
the reincorporation project.

01:06:55.800 --> 01:06:59.880
There have now been 75 ex-FARC fighters
murdered since the peace agreements.

01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:19.040
-You think these will do?
-Sure.

01:07:19.200 --> 01:07:24.360
-You think you can do it again?
-Yeah, like the one I made for her.

01:08:42.920 --> 01:08:46.280
It's hard for people to understand,

01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:51.880
but she and I have things
we carry with us to the grave.

01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:11.480
Do you feel like at any time
they were in danger?

01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:15.120
-High risk?
-Yeah, sure.

01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:18.720
Yeah, there were...

01:09:21.160 --> 01:09:23.320
There were two times

01:09:24.880 --> 01:09:26.760
where...

01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:31.320
the situation almost went wrong.

01:09:32.800 --> 01:09:34.000
But...

01:09:35.720 --> 01:09:38.240
we were able to straighten things out.

01:09:42.640 --> 01:09:45.400
At the very beginning...

01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:50.480
At the very beginning,
after we took them.

01:09:50.640 --> 01:09:53.640
There was an army nearby.

01:09:53.800 --> 01:09:57.520
And I got the order,

01:09:58.160 --> 01:10:01.480
that it was up to me,

01:10:04.480 --> 01:10:07.200
that if the army got too close,

01:10:07.360 --> 01:10:09.520
I had to execute them.

01:10:10.280 --> 01:10:12.280
That was the first time.

01:10:13.280 --> 01:10:15.000
And what did you do?

01:10:15.160 --> 01:10:17.080
I didn't report back.

01:10:17.920 --> 01:10:20.480
I cut the communication.

01:10:25.440 --> 01:10:29.440
I ordered them to move the camp
without authorization.

01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:32.040
12 kilometers, more or less.

01:10:32.200 --> 01:10:34.120
We moved them

01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:38.200
in a canoe

01:10:39.080 --> 01:10:41.400
down the Mapiripana current.

01:10:44.480 --> 01:10:47.880
I didn't report back for three days.

01:10:52.040 --> 01:10:55.120
Thinking about that,
because the order was clear.

01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:09.120
Why did you decide not to follow it?

01:11:22.920 --> 01:11:24.400
Well...

01:11:32.160 --> 01:11:34.600
The thing is, I think...

01:11:38.160 --> 01:11:39.960
something...

01:11:42.400 --> 01:11:47.160
From the very first moment I met
Mrs. Beatriz and Mr. Julio,

01:11:48.480 --> 01:11:52.560
we developed a very warm
relationship with each other.

01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:12.040
I knew that acting on my own,

01:12:12.200 --> 01:12:13.840
if it worked out,

01:12:15.040 --> 01:12:17.880
fine, but if it didn't...

01:12:19.520 --> 01:12:23.000
because failing to follow
an order like that

01:12:25.440 --> 01:12:28.400
put my life at risk.

01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:33.360
Even from High Command,
because the order was clear.

01:12:33.520 --> 01:12:37.080
But I knew that if it worked out,

01:12:38.160 --> 01:12:39.360
well...

01:12:44.560 --> 01:12:47.480
In any abduction,

01:12:50.400 --> 01:12:53.600
execution is never the goal.

01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:55.560
But those were the circumstances.

01:12:55.720 --> 01:12:58.240
And like I said,

01:12:58.400 --> 01:13:01.240
it was my experience
of that kind.

01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:05.680
And from the moment I met them,

01:13:07.280 --> 01:13:09.000
I decided that

01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:11.720
if it was up to me,

01:13:11.880 --> 01:13:16.800
my choices, my responsibility,
I was going to keep them alive.

01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:21.760
Because all the things we went through,

01:13:21.920 --> 01:13:24.320
I'll say it again,

01:13:24.480 --> 01:13:25.920
I saw them as my parents

01:13:26.080 --> 01:13:30.040
and I know that they really
treated me like a son.

01:13:30.960 --> 01:13:32.760
This is clear to me.

01:13:33.440 --> 01:13:35.680
There was no hypocrisy...

01:13:38.960 --> 01:13:40.680
but a lot of love.

01:13:43.440 --> 01:13:45.760
I reported back 3 days later.

01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:49.720
They were scared,
they hadn't heard from me.

01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:52.720
Not a word about "the grandpas."

01:13:53.800 --> 01:13:56.080
-They called them the grandpas?
-Yes.

01:13:57.640 --> 01:13:59.960
When I reported back,

01:14:00.760 --> 01:14:04.240
I told them where I was

01:14:04.600 --> 01:14:06.920
and they asked me why I was there.

01:14:07.480 --> 01:14:11.520
So I said: “I moved,
the enemy was upon us."

01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:15.520
I think...

01:14:15.680 --> 01:14:18.720
I think they knew
we had moved to an area I knew,

01:14:18.880 --> 01:14:20.120
somewhere safe,

01:14:20.280 --> 01:14:22.320
so they stopped asking questions

01:14:22.480 --> 01:14:24.720
and I relaxed.

01:14:26.280 --> 01:14:28.360
The second time

01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:35.000
something very similar happened.

01:14:35.160 --> 01:14:37.640
A military operation came

01:14:42.480 --> 01:14:47.320
very close to us,
and they gave me the order again.

01:14:50.160 --> 01:14:52.440
How did they give the order?

01:14:52.600 --> 01:14:54.080
Written.

01:14:56.960 --> 01:14:58.560
The paper said that

01:15:01.200 --> 01:15:03.360
if I saw

01:15:04.320 --> 01:15:06.600
that the army was upon us,

01:15:08.320 --> 01:15:10.760
not to let them be taken alive.

01:15:14.040 --> 01:15:18.320
And the army was
really close that time.

01:15:19.200 --> 01:15:22.560
-Closer than the first time?
-I think so.

01:15:24.320 --> 01:15:27.160
That day we moved out,
we took a river branch

01:15:27.960 --> 01:15:29.760
and erased our tracks.

01:15:31.080 --> 01:15:33.400
That time it took me longer
to report back.

01:15:34.800 --> 01:15:39.080
At that time, the ransom negotiation
was going nowhere

01:15:39.240 --> 01:15:41.120
and that worried me.

01:15:44.240 --> 01:15:46.160
But also...

01:15:46.520 --> 01:15:51.440
the negotiation was cold,
but our love was stronger.

01:15:53.440 --> 01:15:54.600
Of course.

01:15:58.040 --> 01:16:00.000
That's what I did

01:16:02.880 --> 01:16:04.200
and it worked out.

01:16:08.080 --> 01:16:09.600
For me,

01:16:11.840 --> 01:16:13.920
like I told you yesterday,

01:16:15.640 --> 01:16:19.560
and like I told them when
they were set free:

01:16:19.720 --> 01:16:21.960
“There are truths that will stay
only with me."

01:16:23.120 --> 01:16:24.400
Because...

01:16:26.680 --> 01:16:30.600
I never thought there would be
a chance to tell them.

01:16:31.320 --> 01:16:32.760
And it's hard.

01:16:34.160 --> 01:16:35.560
It's not easy.

01:16:43.560 --> 01:16:47.480
-Anyway...
-It's not easy to hear them either.

01:16:47.640 --> 01:16:48.640
Güérima,

01:16:50.080 --> 01:16:52.920
what would you like to say
to my mom?

01:17:33.520 --> 01:17:36.080
That I really loved her.

01:17:47.360 --> 01:17:49.920
That I really loved her and that...

01:17:51.240 --> 01:17:55.600
I miss her, although I was very happy
when she was freed.