WEBVTT

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[helicopter blades beating]

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[explosion]

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- Put your hands on your heads!

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Crowd: USA!

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- Thank you.

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Crowd: USA! USA!

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- Tonight I have a privilege
given few Americans:

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the privilege of accepting
our party\'s nomination

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for President
of the United States.

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[cheers and applause]

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- Kicking some Democratic butts!

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- I wanted to go to the RNC
to protest

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because I want to change
the world

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and I believe it can be changed.

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- We felt like somebody had to...
Had to speak up, you know?

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We felt like at that moment
in time and place,

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we were supposed to be there.

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- Police may have broken up
a plan to launch explosives

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at Secret Service officers
working the convention.

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- Hey, how\'s it going?
I\'m Brandon.

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- When things go out of control,
you\'ve got to step up your game,

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and you\'ve got to be ready
to do what it takes

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to meet those challenges.

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- To bring down
a left-wing terrorist plot

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that could have resulted
in the deaths

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of who knows how many
police officers

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and security personnel

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and Republican delegates
in Minnesota.

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- It\'s still almost like
a dream.

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- Disturbing news tonight
about homegrown terror.

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- David McKay
and Bradley Crowder

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are both associated with the
radical Austin Affinity group.

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According to federal court
documents,

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an FBI informant
learned of the group\'s plans

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to injure police with explosives

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and shields that could be used
as weapons.

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- Both of us are very, very
proud to be Americans,

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and when you see somebody

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you feel like is poisoning
what you love

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and what you believe in,

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I think if you allow yourself,

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you become someone who wants
to fight against it.

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[tense music]

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- A lot of people don\'t realize

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what an extensive
planning effort it was

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to go into the RNC.

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I mean, it was really
a two-year concerted effort.

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- September 11th
really underscored the fact

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that prevention of terrorism is
the number one goal of the FBI.

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That is what we need to focus
all our resources on

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to the best of our ability.

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- We had to absolutely
be prepared

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for a catastrophic
terrorism incident,

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and, really, the planning
ideology that we used

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was that we had to assume that
there was a 100% chance

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that there was going to be
an attack

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and we had to be prepared
for it.

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- This case was investigated
by the FBI

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and by the Secret Service
as a domestic terrorism case.

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What these two young men
had in mind

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was to come to Minneapolis

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to disrupt
a national political convention

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through violent means.

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- You know, he just called me,

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and he said
he was planning on going.

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And I said, \"Well, what are you
planning on doing?\"

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He said, \"We\'re just gonna
protest, Mom.

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We\'re not... you know, we\'re not
gonna get in any trouble.\"

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And I said, \"Well,
I don\'t want to get a call

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\"telling me you\'re in jail

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\"because you got picked up
for protesting.

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I want you to keep it...\"

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He goes, \"Mom,
we\'re just going up there

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to show that, you know, we don\'t
agree with the government.\"

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And I said, \"Just be careful.\"

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And he said, \"Okay,\"
and that was that.

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- Hey, Bradley!

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- I\'m not political, and I don\'t
really care that much,

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but I\'ve always wanted
both of my kids

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to stand up
for what they believed in.

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And I always felt like

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if you don\'t have something
to stand up for,

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then anything that comes by,
you\'re just gonna follow.

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You have to follow your heart
and your beliefs,

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and that\'s what he was doing.

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[line ringing]

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- Hello?

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- Hello, this is
a collect call from...

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- David.

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- An inmate at the Sherburne
County Jail in Minnesota.

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- Hello?

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- Hey, Dad.

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- [sighs] Finally.

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I don\'t know what to say to you

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except that this conversation
is probably recorded, so...

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- Yeah.

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- We\'re not gonna talk about
none of your case, okay?

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- Okay.

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- None.
You hear me?

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- Okay.
- Okay.

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You\'re gonna have to listen
to me to a T.

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Do not argue with me.

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Do exactly
what I tell you to do.

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- Okay.

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- Okay?
- Okay.

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- Right now, you\'re gonna start

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by dissociating yourself
from your friend.

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You guys are no longer friends.

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- Yeah.

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- Okay?
- Okay.

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- You understand that?
- Okay.

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- Brad is one of,
I guess I can say,

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one of my most trusted
and good friends that I have.

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- David is
a very, very good friend,

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and, I mean, I love David.

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He\'s an artist and, you know,
an athlete.

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He was just a really intense,
charismatic guy.

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He was such a different person
in Midland.

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- I don\'t know.

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I felt like I wanted to be
part of something else.

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I wanted to, I guess,
experience a lot more.

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I didn\'t really know a lot,

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but I had a lot of, I guess,
dreams

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of doing
lots of different things.

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- He was a little bit political
before I met him,

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but through our relationship,
you know,

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and the debates
that we would have,

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he became more and more and more
politicized.

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- We\'ve done a lot of growing
together as friends,

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and I think
that\'s how you can tell

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that you have a good friend.

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- I remember we would just walk
the city at night, you know,

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\'cause downtown Midland
is empty at night.

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There\'s nothing there.

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And we would have the entire
downtown to ourselves,

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and we would just talk.

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We were raised
in Midland, Texas,

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which is a really conservative,
you know, atmosphere,

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and there\'s not a lot
of activists at all.

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There\'s barely even
a Democratic party.

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I\'ve always felt more, you know,
like I\'m more NRA

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than Greenpeace, I guess,
you know.

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I was just raised that way.

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My whole dad\'s side
of the family,

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they\'re all ropers
and, you know, rodeo folk,

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so that\'s my...
That\'s my redneck street cred.

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[explosion]

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I still remember the actual day
that the war began.

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And I was only 17 at the time,

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and it was during
the Shock and Awe campaign,

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and I just saw
the bombs dropping,

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and it just...

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It really...
It really upset me.

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And I was just like,
\"I just can\'t not do something.\"

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So I took a white T-shirt
and flipped it inside out

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and put \"No War\"

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with an upside down
American flag on the back

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and wore it to school
the next day,

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and, you know, it became
a pretty dramatic event.

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- There are some who feel like...
That, you know,

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the conditions are such
that they can attack us there.

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My answer is, \"Bring \'em on.\"

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- We felt like enough is enough
of an administration

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that we did not believe
represented the people.

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And I think
that\'s what we thought

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we were fighting against.

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- All my life, I\'ve always
teach my kids

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to stand up for the oppressed,
to stand up for the weak,

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to stand up for people
that were defenseless.

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But I didn\'t know
that he was that intense

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about this protesting business
and this, you know, this...

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I didn\'t know that he had
all these activist friends

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and all that stuff,

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\'cause I would have definitely
tried to dissuade him

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to come up here, you know.

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- I don\'t know if any of it
really ever would have happened

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if they hadn\'t met Brandon.

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He had all this experience,
and, you know, he\'s a lot older,

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so, sure, he made an impact
on those young guys,

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because they really wanted
to make a difference.

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They want to make a difference.

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And they thought they could
this way, and then...

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But they never were violent
until he came into the picture.

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- Shall we give it a try?

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- Sure.

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- Okay, wait a second
for the focus.

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I\'m ready.

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Action.

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- My name is Brandon Darby,

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and I work with
the Common Ground Collective

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in New Orleans, Louisiana.

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We\'re in the Lower Ninth Ward.

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Actually, I\'ve been coming to
New Orleans often from Austin,

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I guess as an activist,
as an organizer.

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Kind of my mentor, my elder,
you know,

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is named Robert King Wilkerson,
and he lived here,

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and when the storm came,
he was in his home.

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Myself and another activist
bought a boat

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and tried to come into the city
to get our friend

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and to get other people.

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What I saw was awful.

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The people here
were left to die.

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The military was out of control,

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and the police
were out of control.

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You know, if I had had
an appropriate weapon,

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I would have attacked
my government

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for what they were doing
to people.

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I honestly would have.

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You know, I bought an AK-47.

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I was... legally, I bought it.

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I was that angry.

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I was really upset,
\'cause, you know,

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there are residents here
that have said,

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\"You will not take my home
from me, over my dead body,\"

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and we have made a commitment
to be in solidarity

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with those residents.

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I don\'t know why
everyone came, exactly,

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but I do know that all of you
are people of conscience

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who have chosen to come here

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in solidarity with people
that are being marginalized.

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- I went and listened
to King speak one time at UT,

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and he told the story
about Brandon Darby,

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about how he was, you know,
in the water...

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You know, filthy water
was getting into his mouth...

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And he wouldn\'t get out
of the water

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until they rescued his friend.

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And it was just like this,
you know, huge heroic effort.

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And I was like, you know,

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\"That is somebody
who means business, you know,

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\"and that\'s somebody that
I want to be involved with,

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\"somebody that committed,

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who\'s willing to make a level
of sacrifice, you know.\"

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- The things we\'re fixing up

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are day cares,
community centers, churches.

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Working with people
from around the country

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and with locals

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to get water and food
and medicine, medical care,

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you know, some form of education
and free schools.

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- What about your services?

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Are they available
seven days a week?

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- Seven days a week.

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I get up at 6:00 to 7:00
every morning,

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and I work till midnight
every night.

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Sometimes I get an hour off,
and you know what?

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We have hundreds of people
in this city

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doing the same thing,
\'cause it\'s... it\'s...

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When you allow injustice
and unfairness and poverty

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to boil like a... to have a sore
beneath the surface of the skin,

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something happens
like this storm,

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and then look what happened.

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We can\'t let it happen anymore.

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So it\'s just time...

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My question is,
why do we as people

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allow things like this
to continue, you know?

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And why does Homeland Security
feel so threatened

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by our social justice movement
that we are participating in?

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I\'d like to know that.

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Why is Homeland Security
harassing aid workers

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in New Orleans?

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Why is Homeland Security
harassing us?

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Why is there
a Homeland Security?

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You know, we could go on and on.

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- We, the FBI and the federal
and state and local governments,

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knew that there were going
to be some people

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that were going to come
to St. Paul

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to do more
than just demonstrate,

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more than just express
their grievances.

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They were going to try
to block delegates,

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cause destruction
and other fel...

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You know,
felony criminal activity.

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So what we did,
in a concerted effort,

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in a cooperative effort, was,
we tried to put the word out

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to lots of offices
throughout the country.

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\"Hey, if you\'ve got people
that are coming to the RNC

00:16:41.233 --> 00:16:44.667
\"and if they talk about wanting
to do something destructive,

00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:46.500
\"let us in Minneapolis
know about it

00:16:46.533 --> 00:16:49.367
so we can be on the lookout
for something like that.\"

00:16:49.400 --> 00:16:51.767
And that\'s exactly what happened
in many offices,

00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.767
one being out of
our Texas offices,

00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:58.067
specifically in Austin, Texas.

00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:04.600
- Unfortunately, leading up
to the convention,

00:17:04.633 --> 00:17:07.000
there was an organization
based in Minneapolis

00:17:07.033 --> 00:17:09.500
called the RNC
Welcoming Committee,

00:17:09.533 --> 00:17:11.100
which is a misnomer,

00:17:11.133 --> 00:17:13.200
because they were anything
but welcoming.

00:17:13.233 --> 00:17:17.033
They were a group
of self-professed anarchists

00:17:17.067 --> 00:17:19.500
who did not want
the Republican convention

00:17:19.533 --> 00:17:21.200
to go off smoothly.

00:17:21.233 --> 00:17:23.367
And they went on road shows

00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:25.367
to various cities
around the country

00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:28.267
trying to incite people
to come to the RNC

00:17:28.300 --> 00:17:32.200
to help them shut it down.

00:17:32.233 --> 00:17:34.433
- I went to the bookstore
at MonkeyWrench

00:17:34.467 --> 00:17:36.233
in, I believe, February,

00:17:36.267 --> 00:17:38.367
just to see, to get a feel
of what was going on

00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:39.567
up here in Minnesota.

00:17:39.600 --> 00:17:41.367
I went with David,

00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:43.333
and we hadn\'t really made
any concrete decisions

00:17:43.367 --> 00:17:46.100
whether or not we were gonna
attend the protests.

00:17:46.133 --> 00:17:48.267
And Brandon Darby was there.

00:17:48.300 --> 00:17:51.267
So he came up
and approached David and I,

00:17:51.300 --> 00:17:54.233
and we just sort of had a
little, you know, conversation.

00:17:54.267 --> 00:17:55.767
- You know,
this is Brandon Darby.

00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.400
He\'s done all this work
here and there.

00:17:57.433 --> 00:17:59.500
And it was kind of like,
\"Oh, okay.\"

00:17:59.533 --> 00:18:01.300
So strategically,
he was the person

00:18:01.333 --> 00:18:04.067
that we felt like we should
align ourselves with.

00:18:04.100 --> 00:18:06.267
- And ended up, you know,
exchanging numbers...

00:18:06.300 --> 00:18:08.067
- Exchanged numbers
and said we\'d meet up.

00:18:08.100 --> 00:18:09.267
- And meeting up later.

00:18:09.300 --> 00:18:11.667
- \"March 6, 2008,

00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:14.067
\"meeting at Ventana del Soul.

00:18:14.100 --> 00:18:15.767
\"I arrived approximately
30 minutes early

00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:17.267
\"for the meeting.

00:18:17.300 --> 00:18:19.200
\"Brad and David
arrived together.

00:18:19.233 --> 00:18:22.067
\"I stated
that I wanted to sit outside

00:18:22.100 --> 00:18:24.367
\"and make sure that no one heard
our discussion.

00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:26.500
The two of them consented.\"

00:18:26.533 --> 00:18:29.367
- I remember we were sitting
at a coffee shop.

00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:33.633
It\'s one that David goes to
all the time to do artwork.

00:18:33.667 --> 00:18:35.733
Brandon met us there,
and we were talking, you know.

00:18:35.767 --> 00:18:37.767
\"Let\'s talk about what
we\'re comfortable with here,

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:39.467
what we want to accomplish.\"

00:18:39.500 --> 00:18:41.233
And Brandon was like,
\"I don\'t want to talk.

00:18:41.267 --> 00:18:42.567
\"I don\'t want to work out

00:18:42.600 --> 00:18:44.300
our adolescent, you know,
daddy issues.\"

00:18:44.333 --> 00:18:45.667
- \"I stated
that I wasn\'t interested

00:18:45.700 --> 00:18:47.267
\"in being part of a group

00:18:47.300 --> 00:18:50.167
\"if we were gonna sit
and talk too much.

00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:52.700
\"I used several analogies
and personal stories

00:18:52.733 --> 00:18:55.000
\"to explain further how I felt

00:18:55.033 --> 00:18:58.100
\"about the manner in which
activists usually interact

00:18:58.133 --> 00:19:01.433
and how I thought it was why
we were so ineffective.\"

00:19:03.500 --> 00:19:05.200
- He means business.

00:19:05.233 --> 00:19:07.600
He does not want to sit around
in meetings all day.

00:19:07.633 --> 00:19:10.400
He wants to go up there
to shut it down.

00:19:10.433 --> 00:19:13.233
And, you know, he said, \"I\'m
gonna shut that [...] down.\"

00:19:13.267 --> 00:19:15.000
- My biggest impression
from that meeting

00:19:15.033 --> 00:19:19.000
was that Brandon
really dominated it.

00:19:19.033 --> 00:19:21.367
He would be like, you know,
\"Right now,

00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:22.767
\"we\'re having
this little meeting,

00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:24.633
\"but people in Palestine

00:19:24.667 --> 00:19:27.733
are getting cluster bombs
dropped in their home\"

00:19:27.767 --> 00:19:30.433
or \"people in Iraq are dying\"
or something.

00:19:30.467 --> 00:19:33.500
We have to do something
to stop the destruction

00:19:33.533 --> 00:19:36.133
and the madness
that was going on elsewhere.

00:19:36.167 --> 00:19:37.567
It was definitely contagious.

00:19:37.600 --> 00:19:41.200
I felt I needed
to be doing more, doing better,

00:19:41.233 --> 00:19:42.567
doing harder.

00:19:42.600 --> 00:19:46.633
- I saw him
as a powerful individual,

00:19:46.667 --> 00:19:50.367
somebody who was not afraid to...

00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.433
I saw him as a leader, I guess.

00:19:52.467 --> 00:19:55.200
- \"I stated that I wasn\'t there
to [...] around.

00:19:55.233 --> 00:19:57.633
\"I stated that direct action
is intense

00:19:57.667 --> 00:20:01.500
and that we could all expect to
have violence used against us.\"

00:20:01.533 --> 00:20:03.667
- I forget why exactly
he did this,

00:20:03.700 --> 00:20:06.333
but for some reason, he took
my head in his hands like this

00:20:06.367 --> 00:20:08.433
and just squeezed my head

00:20:08.467 --> 00:20:10.300
to see if I was gonna tell him
to stop

00:20:10.333 --> 00:20:11.767
or, you know, whine or complain.

00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.467
And I wouldn\'t do it, you know.

00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:15.033
And he went in
to go get a coffee,

00:20:15.067 --> 00:20:16.700
and David was like,
\"He\'s testing you.

00:20:16.733 --> 00:20:18.733
You know, he\'s trying to see
what you\'re capable of.\"

00:20:18.767 --> 00:20:20.167
And I was like, \"I know.

00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:21.433
\"I know what he\'s doing,
you know,

00:20:21.467 --> 00:20:23.233
and I can handle it, you know.\"

00:20:23.267 --> 00:20:25.400
- \"I stated that they all looked
like they ate too much tofu

00:20:25.433 --> 00:20:27.000
\"and they should eat beef

00:20:27.033 --> 00:20:29.133
\"so that they could put on
muscle mass.

00:20:29.167 --> 00:20:31.600
\"I stated that they weren\'t
gonna be able to fight anybody

00:20:31.633 --> 00:20:33.233
until they did so.\"

00:20:33.267 --> 00:20:35.767
- I mean,
learning jujitsu sounds cool.

00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:39.200
I\'ve always... I\'ve always kind of
wanted to learn a martial art.

00:20:39.233 --> 00:20:42.333
You know, Brandon Darby
teaching me jujitsu.

00:20:42.367 --> 00:20:46.300
But then at the... I think it was
the second meeting we had,

00:20:46.333 --> 00:20:48.533
he takes us out
to the parking lot,

00:20:48.567 --> 00:20:50.467
and he\'s like, \"Oh, here,
let me show you this.\"

00:20:50.500 --> 00:20:52.700
And then he just kind of...
He throws me on the ground,

00:20:52.733 --> 00:20:55.200
and it\'s asphalt.

00:20:55.233 --> 00:20:56.633
I\'m like, \"What are you doing?

00:20:56.667 --> 00:20:58.400
\"Like, could you tell me
next time

00:20:58.433 --> 00:21:00.733
you\'re gonna, like, push me
onto the ground?\"

00:21:00.767 --> 00:21:05.633
But it was just this, like,
\"Look at me. I\'m badass.

00:21:05.667 --> 00:21:08.000
\"I can show you
how to be this badass.

00:21:08.033 --> 00:21:10.000
You can be just like me.\"

00:21:10.033 --> 00:21:13.433
- \"I stated that we could all
expect to be intimidated in jail

00:21:13.467 --> 00:21:15.467
\"and that the cops would
probably put us into cells

00:21:15.500 --> 00:21:18.233
\"with people who would try
to ***-rape or hurt us.

00:21:18.267 --> 00:21:21.433
\"I stated that I was ready
to deal with that

00:21:21.467 --> 00:21:23.033
\"and if they weren\'t,

00:21:23.067 --> 00:21:24.700
then they shouldn\'t
work with me.\"

00:21:24.733 --> 00:21:26.567
- What he was saying was,
\"These are the things.

00:21:26.600 --> 00:21:28.267
\"These are the things
that might happen,

00:21:28.300 --> 00:21:29.633
\"and I\'m willing to take
these risks.

00:21:29.667 --> 00:21:31.633
\"Are you able
to take these risks?

00:21:31.667 --> 00:21:34.000
\"Can you handle
what I\'m able to handle?

00:21:34.033 --> 00:21:35.500
\"Are you on the level that I am?

00:21:35.533 --> 00:21:37.467
\"Are you prepared to make
the kind of sacrifices

00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:39.267
\"for the people
that I\'ve made before...

00:21:39.300 --> 00:21:42.367
\"you know, post-Katrina,
you know, and then now?

00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:44.233
\"Are you willing
to step up to the plate?

00:21:44.267 --> 00:21:46.667
\"Or are you just another one
of these, you know, hippies

00:21:46.700 --> 00:21:48.333
that don\'t really mean
what you say?\"

00:21:48.367 --> 00:21:51.300
And David and I both were like,
\"Well, neither one of us

00:21:51.333 --> 00:21:52.667
\"identify with
the activist scene,

00:21:52.700 --> 00:21:54.200
\"so we are the other.

00:21:54.233 --> 00:21:55.767
\"You know,
we are honestly concerned

00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.667
about trying to do things
for people that are gonna help.\"

00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:03.533
And so we signed up, you know,
with Brandon.

00:22:03.567 --> 00:22:05.333
We signed on.

00:22:05.367 --> 00:22:07.567
[line ringing]

00:22:07.600 --> 00:22:09.000
- Hello?

00:22:09.033 --> 00:22:11.333
- Hello, this is a collect call
from...

00:22:11.367 --> 00:22:13.100
- David.

00:22:13.133 --> 00:22:17.133
- An inmate at the Sherburne
County Jail in Minnesota.

00:22:17.167 --> 00:22:18.333
- Hello?

00:22:18.367 --> 00:22:19.533
- David?

00:22:19.567 --> 00:22:22.000
- Hey.
- Hey.

00:22:22.033 --> 00:22:24.733
I\'m really worried about you.

00:22:24.767 --> 00:22:26.333
I called the county jail

00:22:26.367 --> 00:22:29.500
as soon as I heard
that you were arrested.

00:22:29.533 --> 00:22:33.067
And then that night, you were
on the local news, like on TV.

00:22:33.100 --> 00:22:35.400
It was like, \"Two Austin men
have been arrested

00:22:35.433 --> 00:22:38.233
for conspiracy
to throw explosives.\"

00:22:38.267 --> 00:22:39.767
- Yeah, what did it say?

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.167
- Most of the news reports
just said that group.

00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:44.000
- What they\'re thinking of
as a group

00:22:44.033 --> 00:22:45.633
and, like, what they\'re trying
to investigate

00:22:45.667 --> 00:22:48.233
is nothing more than, you know,
me and Brad

00:22:48.267 --> 00:22:49.433
hanging out at my house.

00:22:49.467 --> 00:22:50.633
- Yeah, I know.

00:22:50.667 --> 00:22:52.500
- They\'re trying to...

00:22:52.533 --> 00:22:54.667
They\'re trying to make this,
like, a landmark case.

00:22:54.700 --> 00:22:56.567
I don\'t know
if they\'re gonna give me, like,

00:22:56.600 --> 00:22:59.400
domestic terrorism charges or...

00:22:59.433 --> 00:23:01.100
- Oh, David.

00:23:01.133 --> 00:23:03.200
- Thank you for using Evercom.

00:23:05.333 --> 00:23:08.100
- We need to get together
in small groups of people

00:23:08.133 --> 00:23:09.600
who we know and we love
and we trust,

00:23:09.633 --> 00:23:11.067
and we need
to keep our mouths shut

00:23:11.100 --> 00:23:12.700
about what we talk about and do,

00:23:12.733 --> 00:23:16.767
and we need to figure out ways
to truly stop this [...].

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:18.633
Stop it.

00:23:18.667 --> 00:23:20.100
Stop...

00:23:20.133 --> 00:23:21.333
- So over the course
of six months

00:23:21.367 --> 00:23:23.133
leading up to the protests,

00:23:23.167 --> 00:23:28.333
we met at least once a week,
often more than once a week.

00:23:28.367 --> 00:23:30.367
Brandon was setting up
the meetings, you know,

00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:32.567
setting where they would go
and stuff like that.

00:23:32.600 --> 00:23:34.467
And I told Brandon that,
you know,

00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:36.333
this was something
that was out of my league.

00:23:36.367 --> 00:23:37.667
I had never organized
on that scale.

00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:39.167
\"I don\'t know what I\'m doing.

00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:40.600
\"I know you\'ve got
more experience.

00:23:40.633 --> 00:23:42.300
\"I know you\'ve got more skills
than I do.

00:23:42.333 --> 00:23:44.000
\"You just let me know
what needs to be done,

00:23:44.033 --> 00:23:45.600
and I\'ll do it,
because I\'m trying to learn.\"

00:23:45.633 --> 00:23:47.400
He was like, \"All right,
you know, I got you.\"

00:23:47.433 --> 00:23:49.400
- And understand that,
historically,

00:23:49.433 --> 00:23:51.133
when people challenge power,

00:23:51.167 --> 00:23:54.433
power steps on people
that challenge them,

00:23:54.467 --> 00:23:55.633
and so it\'s not gonna be pretty.

00:23:55.667 --> 00:23:57.433
- He would ask us about, like,

00:23:57.467 --> 00:23:59.600
\"Well, don\'t you think
armed struggle is appropriate?\"

00:23:59.633 --> 00:24:01.600
or \"Don\'t you think we should
escalate our tactics?

00:24:01.633 --> 00:24:04.200
\"Don\'t you think we should be
willing to take up arms?

00:24:04.233 --> 00:24:05.733
\"Don\'t you think
we should be willing to die

00:24:05.767 --> 00:24:07.333
for what we believe in?\"

00:24:07.367 --> 00:24:08.700
- And how could we get
attention?

00:24:08.733 --> 00:24:10.267
How could we get help, you know?

00:24:10.300 --> 00:24:12.567
And the concept
of going to Congress

00:24:12.600 --> 00:24:16.100
and burning myself alive
or like a monk or something,

00:24:16.133 --> 00:24:17.300
I\'ve thought of that, you know,

00:24:17.333 --> 00:24:19.233
and I think about stuff
like that a lot.

00:24:19.267 --> 00:24:21.633
- One of the agents
in the Austin area

00:24:21.667 --> 00:24:24.300
knew of a couple gentlemen

00:24:24.333 --> 00:24:27.067
that were planning to come
to the RNC.

00:24:27.100 --> 00:24:28.267
They were going to be involved

00:24:28.300 --> 00:24:30.467
in what they called red actions,

00:24:30.500 --> 00:24:33.367
which was violent
criminal actions

00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:35.267
of protest and demonstration

00:24:35.300 --> 00:24:39.133
and that they were actually
constructing homemade shields

00:24:39.167 --> 00:24:43.067
to use in confrontations
with police officers.

00:24:46.067 --> 00:24:49.300
- David and I constructed
34 protest shields

00:24:49.333 --> 00:24:52.000
out of split traffic barrels
to take up to Minnesota

00:24:52.033 --> 00:24:54.667
to try to protect
other protesters

00:24:54.700 --> 00:24:57.400
against rubber bullets
and pepper spray

00:24:57.433 --> 00:24:59.167
so they could stop traffic

00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:03.167
and prevent delegates
from reaching the convention.

00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.167
- \"Brad stated that David
was making the training video

00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:08.400
\"of how to manufacture
the shields for defense

00:25:08.433 --> 00:25:11.033
\"against law enforcement
at the RNC.

00:25:11.067 --> 00:25:12.533
\"I don\'t know
if he\'s being honest

00:25:12.567 --> 00:25:14.233
\"or trying to make me think

00:25:14.267 --> 00:25:17.033
that they\'re doing better
than they are.\"

00:25:17.067 --> 00:25:21.667
- And he was my guide for who
I needed to compare myself to.

00:25:21.700 --> 00:25:23.533
- He called me one time
on the phone.

00:25:23.567 --> 00:25:25.267
He\'s like, \"Well,
I just wanted to call

00:25:25.300 --> 00:25:27.300
\"and let you know
that you remind...

00:25:27.333 --> 00:25:29.067
\"you remind me of myself
when I was your age.

00:25:29.100 --> 00:25:30.733
\"And I think if you keep doing
what you\'re doing,

00:25:30.767 --> 00:25:32.433
\"you\'re gonna do great things
for people

00:25:32.467 --> 00:25:34.133
and really help people out.\"

00:25:34.167 --> 00:25:36.100
- \"I stated that we should meet
every week

00:25:36.133 --> 00:25:38.567
\"so that we all developed
the proper bonds.

00:25:38.600 --> 00:25:41.400
We gave each other a group hug.\"

00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.133
- When we left Austin
in the van,

00:25:48.167 --> 00:25:51.500
it was like we were going
on a camping trip or...

00:25:51.533 --> 00:25:53.567
It was fun;
it was an adventure.

00:25:53.600 --> 00:25:57.033
It was what everyone there
was really there for.

00:25:57.067 --> 00:25:59.700
- I believe we left
on August 28th.

00:25:59.733 --> 00:26:03.300
It was a 23-hour ride.

00:26:03.333 --> 00:26:08.367
David and Brad, I met
a couple weeks before we left,

00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:14.233
and Brandon was actually
the person that I knew the most.

00:26:14.267 --> 00:26:16.767
He was a little bit older
than me.

00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:20.167
He was very assertive,
very vocal,

00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:24.067
and, you know, that kind of
gave me some confidence

00:26:24.100 --> 00:26:28.500
in what I was doing at the time.

00:26:28.533 --> 00:26:30.333
- Brad and David
were really, really close.

00:26:30.367 --> 00:26:32.033
So they\'re sitting there

00:26:32.067 --> 00:26:35.100
talking to this well-seasoned,
well-respected activist.

00:26:35.133 --> 00:26:37.367
Brandon is talking,
and he said something

00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:40.067
that caught my attention,
like, \"Don\'t you feel

00:26:40.100 --> 00:26:42.167
\"that firebombs
and armed militias...

00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:44.733
\"like, don\'t you feel like that
that kind of, like, action

00:26:44.767 --> 00:26:47.000
is necessary sometimes?\"

00:26:47.033 --> 00:26:52.100
And Brad was like,
\"No, I don\'t feel that way.\"

00:26:52.133 --> 00:26:55.200
Brandon would not
leave it alone.

00:26:55.233 --> 00:26:57.233
- And I don\'t even remember
how it came up,

00:26:57.267 --> 00:26:59.400
but Brandon began talking
about this Italian guy

00:26:59.433 --> 00:27:01.500
who would drive around
on his moped

00:27:01.533 --> 00:27:04.533
with a box labeled \"explosives\"
on the back

00:27:04.567 --> 00:27:06.067
and firebomb shops.

00:27:06.100 --> 00:27:07.467
And, you know, he said,

00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:08.940
\"If that\'s the way
you want to do it,

00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:10.200
that\'s how you have to do it.\"

00:27:10.233 --> 00:27:11.733
You can\'t tell people...

00:27:11.767 --> 00:27:13.807
You can\'t, you know,
have a consensus meeting on it.

00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:16.433
You just have to go do it.

00:27:16.467 --> 00:27:19.333
\'Cause Brandon
was a revolutionary.

00:27:19.367 --> 00:27:21.733
At least he adamantly claimed
to be so

00:27:21.767 --> 00:27:24.667
and, you know, claimed to be
a militant revolutionary

00:27:24.700 --> 00:27:27.633
who has engaged
in armed struggle.

00:27:27.667 --> 00:27:30.200
- Brad said that he didn\'t see
a political gain

00:27:30.233 --> 00:27:33.700
from using arms,
at least in the context

00:27:33.733 --> 00:27:38.200
of any kind
of American dissidence.

00:27:38.233 --> 00:27:43.233
But obviously, at some point
over the weekend, that changed.

00:28:39.500 --> 00:28:42.467
- It was a Friday
before the protests began,

00:28:42.500 --> 00:28:45.067
and we were just driving around
sort of lost,

00:28:45.100 --> 00:28:48.533
just meandering about.

00:28:48.567 --> 00:28:54.233
- We got to St. Paul,
and we dropped the trailer off.

00:28:56.267 --> 00:28:58.233
And then we started
getting followed.

00:28:58.267 --> 00:29:01.067
[sounds of police radio]

00:29:06.600 --> 00:29:08.300
Brandon turned around,

00:29:08.333 --> 00:29:10.100
and he\'s like, \"Oh, yeah,
those are the feds.

00:29:10.133 --> 00:29:11.300
\"Those are the feds, guys.

00:29:11.333 --> 00:29:13.000
The feds are following us.\"

00:29:13.033 --> 00:29:16.567
And then we heard helicopters
circling the van,

00:29:16.600 --> 00:29:21.300
and they finally pulled us over,
guns drawn,

00:29:21.333 --> 00:29:23.667
but we weren\'t really sure why,
you know,

00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:27.600
they were harassing us
like that.

00:29:27.633 --> 00:29:31.033
They said it was because of
bad information,

00:29:31.067 --> 00:29:32.567
but there was stuff like that
going on

00:29:32.600 --> 00:29:34.667
all over the city already.

00:29:34.700 --> 00:29:36.267
- Top of your head, please.

00:29:36.300 --> 00:29:38.233
- Tensions running high
between law enforcement

00:29:38.267 --> 00:29:39.733
and those hoping to protest.

00:29:39.767 --> 00:29:42.133
- This comes after a weekend
full of police raids

00:29:42.167 --> 00:29:44.300
before the Republican National
Convention.

00:29:44.333 --> 00:29:46.133
- Five members of the
RNC Welcoming Committee

00:29:46.167 --> 00:29:48.167
were arrested at homes
in Minneapolis.

00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:50.400
- Authorities say
to expect more of the same

00:29:50.433 --> 00:29:52.633
in the next few days.

00:29:56.333 --> 00:29:58.533
- And extra uniformed officers
are on guard,

00:29:58.567 --> 00:30:00.567
and F-16 fighter jets
are in town,

00:30:00.600 --> 00:30:03.033
ready to take off
at a moment\'s notice.

00:30:03.067 --> 00:30:05.333
- And once convention-goers
arrive in downtown St. Paul,

00:30:05.367 --> 00:30:08.533
security cameras will catch
their every move.

00:30:08.567 --> 00:30:10.167
- The FBI will play
a pretty big role

00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:11.500
in gathering intelligence

00:30:11.533 --> 00:30:13.467
and investigating
any terroristic threats

00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:15.367
during the RNC this coming week.

00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:17.400
- Pussy!

00:30:17.433 --> 00:30:19.600
- That medic, that medic
is a cop!

00:30:24.733 --> 00:30:26.667
- They were kicking down doors.

00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:28.600
They were raiding people
on conspiracy charge.

00:30:28.633 --> 00:30:32.767
And there was just this
pervasive sense of occupation,

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:37.000
and it was unlike anything
I had even imagined

00:30:37.033 --> 00:30:38.200
that I was going be a part of.

00:30:38.233 --> 00:30:40.167
It was like a war zone.

00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:42.200
It was a police state.

00:30:42.233 --> 00:30:45.300
- Get down, and put your hands
on top of your head!

00:30:45.333 --> 00:30:47.500
- Are we all gonna die
by firing squad? What?

00:30:47.533 --> 00:30:49.267
[guns firing]

00:30:49.300 --> 00:30:51.067
[helicopter blades beating]

00:30:51.100 --> 00:30:54.433
- And so we went to the trailer
with the shields,

00:30:54.467 --> 00:30:56.400
and we got there,
and as we walked up,

00:30:56.433 --> 00:31:00.100
that\'s when we saw that the lock
was cut and on the ground,

00:31:00.133 --> 00:31:03.100
and we opened them up
to a completely empty trailer.

00:31:05.533 --> 00:31:08.100
There was nothing illegal
in that van,

00:31:08.133 --> 00:31:10.300
and, you know,
nobody saw a warrant.

00:31:10.333 --> 00:31:12.300
They didn\'t talk to anybody
about anything.

00:31:12.333 --> 00:31:14.500
So we thought they were just
running around cutting locks,

00:31:14.533 --> 00:31:17.000
seeing what they could find,
and we felt robbed

00:31:17.033 --> 00:31:23.633
and that there was no avenue
for us to respond in any way.

00:31:25.633 --> 00:31:27.633
- And when the shields
were taken, you know,

00:31:27.667 --> 00:31:29.067
Brandon freaked out.

00:31:29.100 --> 00:31:30.467
- He was screaming.

00:31:30.500 --> 00:31:32.200
He was saying
that this was unacceptable,

00:31:32.233 --> 00:31:33.600
that this had to be stopped.

00:31:33.633 --> 00:31:35.433
And then when we had a meeting
later, you know,

00:31:35.467 --> 00:31:37.600
Brandon was provocative
in the circle.

00:31:37.633 --> 00:31:41.333
- This is like... this is where
it gets interesting.

00:31:41.367 --> 00:31:43.300
Like, think about...

00:31:43.333 --> 00:31:46.067
- And at this meeting,
Crowder and McKay

00:31:46.100 --> 00:31:50.033
must have made the decision
to do something else,

00:31:50.067 --> 00:31:52.767
because it was at this meeting
that they asked

00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:55.033
where they could get
certain supplies,

00:31:55.067 --> 00:31:59.000
where they could go
to a Walmart.

00:31:59.033 --> 00:32:00.600
- Well, when we went
to the Walmart,

00:32:00.633 --> 00:32:02.500
it was sort of like,
\"Let\'s get this stuff,

00:32:02.533 --> 00:32:05.733
and we\'re gonna see if
it\'s gonna go that route.\"

00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.133
- Of course, our concern level
was very high.

00:32:25.167 --> 00:32:27.267
Had they already made devices?

00:32:27.300 --> 00:32:28.767
If so, where were they,

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:30.667
and what were they planning
on doing with these?

00:32:30.700 --> 00:32:32.500
Or were they not going
to make devices?

00:32:32.533 --> 00:32:34.733
Did they just buy these things
in the spur of the moment,

00:32:34.767 --> 00:32:36.133
the heat of the moment,

00:32:36.167 --> 00:32:37.467
and then they came
to their senses?

00:32:37.500 --> 00:32:39.267
We didn\'t know.

00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.667
- Yeah, it was real surreal.

00:32:45.700 --> 00:32:48.567
It\'s still almost like a dream.

00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:52.567
- David was... you know,
right out the gate,

00:32:52.600 --> 00:32:54.267
\"These cannot be used
to hurt anybody.

00:32:54.300 --> 00:32:55.900
\"We don\'t want to hit anybody
with these,

00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:58.300
\"and we want it to be
like a dramatic statement

00:32:58.333 --> 00:33:00.133
of property destruction.\"

00:33:00.167 --> 00:33:03.167
And so that\'s when the idea
of the JumboTron came up.

00:33:04.767 --> 00:33:07.567
- We were very nervous
when we were in the bathroom.

00:33:07.600 --> 00:33:10.000
We had everything laid out.

00:33:10.033 --> 00:33:13.567
I was doing the pouring,
and he was doing the wrapping,

00:33:13.600 --> 00:33:18.500
and... dropped a bottle
and knocked everything over,

00:33:18.533 --> 00:33:19.893
and it made a whole bunch
of noise,

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:21.267
and we thought
we woke everyone up,

00:33:21.300 --> 00:33:23.167
and we were real paranoid,

00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:26.533
and we were, like, looking out
the window every three seconds.

00:33:26.567 --> 00:33:28.233
You know, after it was done,
we were like,

00:33:28.267 --> 00:33:31.433
\"Okay, we need to go up
on the roof.\"

00:33:34.233 --> 00:33:36.500
- We talked about
the Molotov cocktails,

00:33:36.533 --> 00:33:38.333
but we also talked about,
you know, our life,

00:33:38.367 --> 00:33:40.167
our friendship, you know,
people that we knew

00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:42.000
and stuff that was going on

00:33:42.033 --> 00:33:44.467
and just sort of where we were
in our life at that time.

00:33:46.667 --> 00:33:50.733
- I don\'t think we slept at all
that night.

00:33:50.767 --> 00:33:52.500
- You know, in the light of day,

00:33:52.533 --> 00:33:55.267
I think both of us were, like,
not really prepared,

00:33:55.300 --> 00:33:57.300
and the person
who initially said,

00:33:57.333 --> 00:33:59.500
\"I don\'t want to use these\"
was David.

00:33:59.533 --> 00:34:03.100
- I think the burden
of taking the responsibility

00:34:03.133 --> 00:34:05.200
of going out there
and using them

00:34:05.233 --> 00:34:08.433
was a little bit more
than we were ready to handle.

00:34:08.467 --> 00:34:09.633
- Whose streets?

00:34:09.667 --> 00:34:11.033
Crowd: Our streets!

00:34:11.067 --> 00:34:12.367
- Whose streets?

00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:14.100
- And so we got ready
for the protests.

00:34:14.133 --> 00:34:18.267
We put on the gear that we had,
and we were late,

00:34:18.300 --> 00:34:20.733
and so we didn\'t have time to
get rid of them at that point,

00:34:20.767 --> 00:34:24.567
and we needed to catch up
to the protest.

00:34:24.600 --> 00:34:27.367
And I thought that was the end
of it.

00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:29.367
[line ringing]

00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:31.600
- I don\'t understand
what the [...]

00:34:31.633 --> 00:34:34.667
got you in your mind to drive
to Minneapolis, Minnesota,

00:34:34.700 --> 00:34:36.233
to go do this [...].

00:34:36.267 --> 00:34:37.667
And the other crazy thing

00:34:37.700 --> 00:34:39.600
is that there were [...]
eight people in there.

00:34:39.633 --> 00:34:42.433
How come there\'s only two of you
in there, you know?

00:34:42.467 --> 00:34:45.133
- Because, Dad,
there was an informant.

00:34:45.167 --> 00:34:47.600
- They\'ve been on the FBI\'s
radar for more than a year.

00:34:47.633 --> 00:34:49.167
When they came to St. Paul,

00:34:49.200 --> 00:34:51.067
federal informants
and undercover cops

00:34:51.100 --> 00:34:53.000
were already watching
their every move.

00:34:53.033 --> 00:34:54.200
- Okay, yeah.

00:34:54.233 --> 00:34:55.700
I don\'t understand.

00:34:55.733 --> 00:34:58.167
When they say \"informant,\"
I don\'t understand.

00:34:58.200 --> 00:35:02.467
Was it... it\'s not an FBI
that\'s undercover.

00:35:02.500 --> 00:35:05.433
- He was somebody who got...
He was somebody

00:35:05.467 --> 00:35:07.667
who either got in trouble
or needed money

00:35:07.700 --> 00:35:13.200
and agreed to pretend like
he was going to do something.

00:35:13.233 --> 00:35:16.400
- Documents we obtained today
detail extensive use

00:35:16.433 --> 00:35:19.300
of informants
inside protest groups.

00:35:19.333 --> 00:35:21.700
- And what\'s his name?
What\'s the name of that person?

00:35:21.733 --> 00:35:23.300
- Brandon Darby.

00:35:23.333 --> 00:35:26.133
- Huh?
- Brandon Darby.

00:35:26.167 --> 00:35:28.633
- Brandon Darby?
- Yes.

00:35:32.200 --> 00:35:34.433
- \"I found it difficult
to be undercover

00:35:34.467 --> 00:35:36.267
\"for such a period of hours.

00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:38.500
\"I did fine
and just tried to imagine

00:35:38.533 --> 00:35:42.767
that I was on a movie set
and stay in character.\"

00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:45.233
- He was kind of your friend,
right?

00:35:45.267 --> 00:35:48.733
- He was one of the people
who motivated me to go.

00:35:48.767 --> 00:35:52.133
- That Brandon, that Brandon
[...] you over, pretty much.

00:35:52.167 --> 00:35:57.267
- He royally... Dad, this man
[...] me as hard as you can.

00:35:57.300 --> 00:36:03.467
- And the lawyer cannot fight,
like, entrapment?

00:36:03.500 --> 00:36:06.167
- As we turn now to a story
out of Austin, Texas,

00:36:06.200 --> 00:36:09.667
that\'s shocked social justice
activists nationwide.

00:36:09.700 --> 00:36:12.600
A prominent Austin-based
activist named Brandon Darby

00:36:12.633 --> 00:36:14.567
has revealed he worked
as an FBI informant

00:36:14.600 --> 00:36:17.467
in the 18 months leading up
to the Republican convention.

00:36:17.500 --> 00:36:19.467
In a statement, a group
of Austin-based activists

00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:21.267
raised suspicions

00:36:21.300 --> 00:36:24.067
Darby may have gone beyond
spying on the accused activists

00:36:24.100 --> 00:36:25.633
but, in fact, encouraged
and provoked them

00:36:25.667 --> 00:36:27.333
into breaking the law.

00:36:27.367 --> 00:36:29.267
But in an open letter
to the activist community,

00:36:29.300 --> 00:36:31.567
Darby maintained he only acted

00:36:31.600 --> 00:36:33.700
to prevent violent actions
by a small group

00:36:33.733 --> 00:36:35.200
that he says
would have undermined

00:36:35.233 --> 00:36:37.167
the cause of social justice.

00:36:37.200 --> 00:36:40.167
- \"Though my views
on how to give of myself

00:36:40.200 --> 00:36:42.567
\"have changed substantially
over the years,

00:36:42.600 --> 00:36:44.500
\"ultimately, the motivations
behind my choices

00:36:44.533 --> 00:36:46.333
\"remain the same.

00:36:46.367 --> 00:36:49.267
\"Though I\'ve made and
will no doubt continue to make

00:36:49.300 --> 00:36:52.333
\"many mistakes in my efforts
to better this world,

00:36:52.367 --> 00:36:56.000
\"I strongly stand behind
my choices in this matter.

00:36:56.033 --> 00:36:58.700
In solidarity, Brandon Darby.\"

00:36:58.733 --> 00:37:01.467
- I was approached
by \"The Chronicle\"

00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:05.133
to write the story about Brandon
and the RNC

00:37:05.167 --> 00:37:08.300
because I knew a lot
of the local players.

00:37:08.333 --> 00:37:10.167
And Brandon told me

00:37:10.200 --> 00:37:13.167
that he felt like the people
that he had been involved with

00:37:13.200 --> 00:37:15.200
were about to make
a huge mistake

00:37:15.233 --> 00:37:19.567
and that he had to rat on them
to stop it.

00:37:19.600 --> 00:37:22.167
- You know, he confided in me
that he was an FBI informant

00:37:22.200 --> 00:37:24.333
before he told other people.

00:37:24.367 --> 00:37:30.633
And initially, he conveyed
a conflictedness about it,

00:37:30.667 --> 00:37:34.033
but then he started talking
more and more about it,

00:37:34.067 --> 00:37:36.667
and I think he really enjoyed
his relationship with the FBI.

00:37:36.700 --> 00:37:42.233
I think Brandon really was
kind of excited about it.

00:37:42.267 --> 00:37:43.733
I think maybe
he got disenchanted

00:37:43.767 --> 00:37:45.467
with what was going on
in Common Ground,

00:37:45.500 --> 00:37:47.167
and he wasn\'t the hero anymore,

00:37:47.200 --> 00:37:51.000
and a lot of people
who might have, at one time,

00:37:51.033 --> 00:37:53.133
really respected him
and admired him

00:37:53.167 --> 00:37:56.400
had started to see him
in a different light,

00:37:56.433 --> 00:37:59.133
and I think he wanted to be
that hero again.

00:37:59.167 --> 00:38:04.167
And apparently the FBI
saw something in him,

00:38:04.200 --> 00:38:06.067
and they thought
they could capitalize

00:38:06.100 --> 00:38:08.733
on his desire to be a hero.

00:38:08.767 --> 00:38:10.767
- Brandon has a long history...

00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:13.067
Since 2002, when he first came
on the scene...

00:38:13.100 --> 00:38:14.567
Of trying to entice people

00:38:14.600 --> 00:38:17.767
to create what he called
revolutionary acts:

00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.467
to either burn things down,
arson.

00:38:20.500 --> 00:38:22.367
And there\'s numerous people
that have surfaced

00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:23.700
that have said, like,

00:38:23.733 --> 00:38:25.433
\"He tried to get me
to burn this thing down.

00:38:25.467 --> 00:38:27.167
He tried to get me
to burn that thing down.\"

00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:29.167
And as far as I know,
nobody ever participated

00:38:29.200 --> 00:38:30.500
and always thought
that he was crazy

00:38:30.533 --> 00:38:32.167
for wanting to do it,

00:38:32.200 --> 00:38:34.233
but he has a long history
of trying to do that.

00:38:34.267 --> 00:38:37.367
- He shared with me
that he was an informant

00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:40.500
but didn\'t share with me
the truth

00:38:40.533 --> 00:38:43.467
about how that went down,
about why he was doing it,

00:38:43.500 --> 00:38:47.067
about how long
he had been doing it for.

00:38:47.100 --> 00:38:50.433
And I guess it was
during Katrina at some point,

00:38:50.467 --> 00:38:53.467
when he was interacting
with law enforcement regularly,

00:38:53.500 --> 00:38:59.700
that he started to decide
to become the informant.

00:39:03.300 --> 00:39:06.200
- Brandon took me to the side
of the apartment building

00:39:06.233 --> 00:39:10.067
where he was staying,
and he told me that, you know,

00:39:10.100 --> 00:39:12.633
David and Brad had made
Molotov cocktails.

00:39:12.667 --> 00:39:16.133
And he didn\'t want to tell
the group;

00:39:16.167 --> 00:39:19.267
he just wanted to tell us
kind of individually.

00:39:21.567 --> 00:39:24.467
And he... you know, he was kind of
very enthusiastic,

00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:28.433
and he thought that, you know,
they could probably pull it off,

00:39:28.467 --> 00:39:33.067
and that kind of struck me
as odd.

00:39:35.200 --> 00:39:36.367
- Free tuition.

00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:38.267
Crowd: Whose streets?

00:39:38.300 --> 00:39:40.733
Our streets!

00:39:40.767 --> 00:39:42.500
We support war resistors.

00:39:42.533 --> 00:39:45.067
They are brothers.
They are sisters.

00:39:45.100 --> 00:39:46.667
- Around the RNC,

00:39:46.700 --> 00:39:50.133
we were in the middle
of George Bush\'s second term.

00:39:50.167 --> 00:39:52.667
We were in the middle
of the Iraq War.

00:39:52.700 --> 00:39:54.433
I think that people had had it

00:39:54.467 --> 00:39:57.300
with all of the death
that was happening in our name.

00:39:57.333 --> 00:39:59.267
- Whose war?
Crowd: Their war!

00:39:59.300 --> 00:40:01.067
- Whose streets?
Crowd: Our streets!

00:40:01.100 --> 00:40:02.733
- Whose war?
Crowd: Their war!

00:40:02.767 --> 00:40:05.400
- I wanted to go to the RNC
to protest

00:40:05.433 --> 00:40:07.000
because I want
to change the world

00:40:07.033 --> 00:40:08.767
and I believe it can be changed.

00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:11.533
I felt, and I think
many other people felt,

00:40:11.567 --> 00:40:16.767
that it was time to step up
our level of commitment.

00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:19.000
- We had purpose
behind our actions.

00:40:19.033 --> 00:40:22.500
Like, there was a point
greater than ourselves.

00:40:24.500 --> 00:40:26.700
- Tell me
what democracy looks like!

00:40:26.733 --> 00:40:29.567
Crowd: This is what
democracy looks like.

00:40:29.600 --> 00:40:33.000
- The problems we face
are, like, epic and dangerous...

00:40:33.033 --> 00:40:35.733
You know, torture,
preemptive warfare,

00:40:35.767 --> 00:40:39.133
corporate corruption,
poverty, the prison system,

00:40:39.167 --> 00:40:40.667
economic suicide.

00:40:40.700 --> 00:40:43.133
So all of these things, to me,
were tied in.

00:40:43.167 --> 00:40:45.367
And the Republicans were
the ruling party over that time,

00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:47.733
and so they bore
a lot of the responsibility

00:40:47.767 --> 00:40:49.333
for a lot of the crimes.

00:40:49.367 --> 00:40:50.767
- Drill, baby, drill!

00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:52.767
- I think that it was
really fertile ground

00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:55.733
for a radical reaction
to prove to people

00:40:55.767 --> 00:40:58.633
that not everybody felt the way

00:40:58.667 --> 00:41:01.600
that our government was
portraying the American people.

00:41:01.633 --> 00:41:06.633
- We felt like somebody had to...
Had to speak up.

00:41:11.100 --> 00:41:15.667
- In the early afternoon hours,
we began specific surveillance

00:41:15.700 --> 00:41:19.167
using FBI and St. Paul police
surveillance assets.

00:41:20.200 --> 00:41:21.500
- Behind us.

00:41:21.533 --> 00:41:23.300
- And the surveillance conducted

00:41:23.333 --> 00:41:25.633
showed they walked
down downtown St. Paul

00:41:25.667 --> 00:41:28.367
rolling trash cans,
throwing trash into the streets,

00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:31.700
and basically a lot of vandalism
and property destruction.

00:41:31.733 --> 00:41:34.267
- Do not hit cars!
- Do not hit cars!

00:41:36.067 --> 00:41:38.000
- All right, I just...
They\'re just throwing, like,

00:41:38.033 --> 00:41:40.700
heavy things
onto the [...] freeway.

00:41:42.333 --> 00:41:45.667
- You\'re going to wear us out,
man.

00:42:00.233 --> 00:42:01.700
- Come here, back up
and move that way!

00:42:01.733 --> 00:42:03.533
Go, go, go, go!

00:42:08.633 --> 00:42:12.167
- It was during this semi-riot

00:42:12.200 --> 00:42:15.500
that both Crowder and McKay
were arrested separately

00:42:15.533 --> 00:42:18.267
by the St Paul police
and other law enforcement

00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:21.233
downtown St. Paul
for those activities.

00:42:23.433 --> 00:42:26.567
Mr. McKay, as I understand it,

00:42:26.600 --> 00:42:30.467
had identification
and was able to get released.

00:42:30.500 --> 00:42:32.733
Mr. Crowder, who had
no identification with him,

00:42:32.767 --> 00:42:35.067
was held.

00:42:35.100 --> 00:42:37.333
Our next step then...
This is September 2nd.

00:42:37.367 --> 00:42:39.167
We\'re regrouping,
we\'re deciding what to do,

00:42:39.200 --> 00:42:40.767
and we have a belief

00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:44.167
that Crowder and McKay
may have made Molotov cocktails.

00:42:44.200 --> 00:42:46.200
So I asked the source.

00:42:46.233 --> 00:42:52.100
I said, \"Perhaps you could be
David McKay\'s new best friend.

00:42:52.133 --> 00:42:54.167
\"Could you stay close to him?

00:42:54.200 --> 00:42:56.167
\"Be his confidant.
Be his friend.

00:42:56.200 --> 00:42:58.433
See what he\'s willing
to share with you.\"

00:42:58.467 --> 00:43:00.733
Our main concern was that
these devices...

00:43:00.767 --> 00:43:03.433
As the case agent, I wanted
to record a conversation.

00:43:03.467 --> 00:43:05.400
That\'s what I wanted
to have happen.

00:43:05.433 --> 00:43:08.167
The source, however,
had never been recorded before,

00:43:08.200 --> 00:43:11.233
and he was very uncomfortable
wearing a recording device.

00:43:11.267 --> 00:43:13.733
In fact, he said, \"Listen, if
this kid hasn\'t done anything,

00:43:13.767 --> 00:43:15.767
\"I don\'t want to get him
in trouble

00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:17.333
with some sort
of recording device,\"

00:43:17.367 --> 00:43:19.433
still not completely sure

00:43:19.467 --> 00:43:21.333
that the FBI was totally
on the up-and-up,

00:43:21.367 --> 00:43:23.167
even though he was working
with us.

00:43:23.200 --> 00:43:25.633
So I asked him
if he could compromise.

00:43:25.667 --> 00:43:27.700
I told him, \"Listen,
I don\'t make criminals.

00:43:27.733 --> 00:43:29.400
\"I just catch them.

00:43:29.433 --> 00:43:33.133
\"I need to hear this guy,
in his own words,

00:43:33.167 --> 00:43:35.233
\"say what he\'s done and what
he\'s planning on doing.

00:43:35.267 --> 00:43:37.500
\"Can you wear a transmitter?

00:43:37.533 --> 00:43:40.767
\"That way, I can listen in,
but it\'s not recorded

00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:43.000
in case he didn\'t really do
anything.\"

00:43:43.033 --> 00:43:46.700
And so we gave the source
a transmitting device

00:43:46.733 --> 00:43:49.333
that transmitted
over a secure frequency

00:43:49.367 --> 00:43:51.200
that I could listen to,

00:43:51.233 --> 00:43:53.500
and we allowed the source
to go meet with David McKay,

00:43:53.533 --> 00:43:56.000
and we sat down to wait.

00:43:56.033 --> 00:43:59.167
- There\'s the Hard Times Café.

00:44:02.733 --> 00:44:07.633
- It began with the source
prompting David McKay

00:44:07.667 --> 00:44:09.333
about the Molotov cocktails.

00:44:09.367 --> 00:44:10.700
- That\'s when Brandon came
to me,

00:44:10.733 --> 00:44:12.500
and Brandon was like,
\"How are those things?

00:44:12.533 --> 00:44:13.700
Are they safe?\"

00:44:13.733 --> 00:44:15.367
And I was like, \"They\'re safe.\"

00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:17.433
And he was like, \"Well,
do you have any ambitions

00:44:17.467 --> 00:44:20.767
on doing any other missions
or anything like that?\"

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.000
And I was like,
\"Well, I don\'t know.\"

00:44:23.033 --> 00:44:25.100
And he was like, \"Well,
we\'ll talk about this later.\"

00:44:25.133 --> 00:44:27.667
- This was the conversation,
the overheard conversation,

00:44:27.700 --> 00:44:31.000
that really chilled my blood
and where I realized

00:44:31.033 --> 00:44:33.433
that serious criminal activity
had taken place.

00:44:33.467 --> 00:44:35.500
- That\'s when he was like,
\"Well, you think, you know,

00:44:35.533 --> 00:44:37.500
\"we should...
You know of any targets?

00:44:37.533 --> 00:44:39.400
\"I know you scouted the area
for us.\"

00:44:39.433 --> 00:44:42.100
And, you know, that\'s when
I pointed out the car lot.

00:44:42.133 --> 00:44:43.500
- The source said, you know,

00:44:43.533 --> 00:44:46.500
\"What if there is a cop
in one of these cars?\"

00:44:46.533 --> 00:44:49.167
And David McKay said,
\"Well, he\'ll wake up.

00:44:49.200 --> 00:44:51.433
I mean, it\'ll take him a while,\"
he said,

00:44:51.467 --> 00:44:55.333
\"to realize he\'s being
firebombed, but he\'ll wake up.\"

00:44:55.367 --> 00:44:57.600
And then the source said,
\"Well, what if he doesn\'t?\"

00:44:57.633 --> 00:45:00.067
McKay had no response to that.

00:45:00.100 --> 00:45:01.733
- People were never a target,

00:45:01.767 --> 00:45:03.500
so him coming up with, like,

00:45:03.533 --> 00:45:05.633
ridiculous questions
such as he was,

00:45:05.667 --> 00:45:11.067
I was like,
\"What kind of question is that?\"

00:45:11.100 --> 00:45:14.700
And I deterred him by saying
I\'d meet him up later

00:45:14.733 --> 00:45:18.400
and then not answering
his calls.

00:45:18.433 --> 00:45:21.100
- Now, this was approximately

00:45:21.133 --> 00:45:23.100
And we were talking
to the source

00:45:23.133 --> 00:45:24.633
through text messaging,

00:45:24.667 --> 00:45:29.300
and finally he just left
and texted us back:

00:45:29.333 --> 00:45:31.033
\"I can\'t do this to him.

00:45:31.067 --> 00:45:33.133
\"I can\'t be part of this.

00:45:33.167 --> 00:45:35.100
I\'m uneasy.
I\'m scared.\"

00:45:35.133 --> 00:45:37.367
Well, that was of great concern
to us,

00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:38.767
because we had lost the partner

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:41.000
that David McKay had chosen
to help him.

00:45:41.033 --> 00:45:43.233
When we saw David
go back into that apartment

00:45:43.267 --> 00:45:47.100
nearing 2:00 in the morning,
we didn\'t know what to expect.

00:47:21.467 --> 00:47:26.233
[people talking
over police radio]

00:47:26.267 --> 00:47:30.200
- At about 5:00 in the morning,
McKay had not left,

00:47:30.233 --> 00:47:33.467
the St. Paul police
had their warrant in hand,

00:47:33.500 --> 00:47:36.367
and the feds basically held
the perimeter

00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:38.700
while the St. Paul police
executed that search warrant.

00:47:38.733 --> 00:47:40.133
[pounding on door]

00:47:40.167 --> 00:47:42.333
- Police!
Search warrant!

00:47:42.367 --> 00:47:45.167
- Police say David McKay
and Bradley Crowder

00:47:45.200 --> 00:47:48.333
are both associated with the
radical Austin Affinity group.

00:47:48.367 --> 00:47:50.633
[glass smashing]

00:47:53.200 --> 00:47:55.000
- Police!
- Go, go, go!

00:47:55.033 --> 00:47:56.533
- Get down!
Everybody on the floor!

00:47:56.567 --> 00:47:59.533
Everybody on the floor
right now!

00:47:59.567 --> 00:48:01.400
- According
to federal court documents,

00:48:01.433 --> 00:48:03.333
an FBI informant
learned of the group\'s plans

00:48:03.367 --> 00:48:06.133
to disrupt the RNC
and injure police

00:48:06.167 --> 00:48:09.267
with explosives and shields
that could be used as weapons.

00:48:09.300 --> 00:48:11.167
- Behind your head!

00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:50.000
- Here\'s what they\'re saying
right now.

00:48:50.033 --> 00:48:51.433
- Okay.

00:48:51.467 --> 00:48:54.367
- They don\'t have a lot
of evidence on Brad,

00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:57.300
and my lawyer said that they
might want to cut a deal with me

00:48:57.333 --> 00:48:59.667
if I, like, testify against him.

00:48:59.700 --> 00:49:04.533
And what I told him was,
I would talk to you about it,

00:49:04.567 --> 00:49:07.567
and I would only probably do it

00:49:07.600 --> 00:49:09.433
if whatever deal
they offered me,

00:49:09.467 --> 00:49:11.600
they would offer him the same.

00:49:11.633 --> 00:49:16.000
And I know Brad would
probably do that for me.

00:49:16.033 --> 00:49:18.033
But I\'m not gonna testify
against him if...

00:49:18.067 --> 00:49:19.600
- Well, hold on.

00:49:19.633 --> 00:49:21.533
That doesn\'t make sense.

00:49:21.567 --> 00:49:25.333
Number one, I think that...

00:49:25.367 --> 00:49:28.100
Okay, I don\'t think
it\'s a good idea

00:49:28.133 --> 00:49:30.267
to be a snitch for the FBI.

00:49:30.300 --> 00:49:33.433
If they giving you a deal,

00:49:33.467 --> 00:49:38.000
it\'s because they want
to get him for worse.

00:49:38.033 --> 00:49:40.767
Don\'t give them nothing
on nobody.

00:49:56.167 --> 00:49:57.733
- Under the federal sentencing
guidelines,

00:49:57.767 --> 00:49:59.767
there\'s a built-in punishment
for going to trial.

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:01.233
That\'s how it is.

00:50:01.267 --> 00:50:02.433
The system\'s built that way.

00:50:02.467 --> 00:50:04.333
The rules are written that way.

00:50:04.367 --> 00:50:06.567
- You go to trial, you\'re
looking at 10 to 12 years.

00:50:06.600 --> 00:50:09.100
You take a plea deal,
you\'re looking at 2, 2 1/2.

00:50:09.133 --> 00:50:10.333
I mean, that\'s game theory.

00:50:10.367 --> 00:50:12.100
What are you gonna do?

00:50:12.133 --> 00:50:14.333
The prosecution has
unbelievable amounts of power

00:50:14.367 --> 00:50:16.167
in the negotiation process

00:50:16.200 --> 00:50:20.200
to, you know, to make sure
people don\'t go to trial.

00:50:20.233 --> 00:50:22.367
They don\'t like...
It\'s playing games.

00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:24.167
They don\'t like to have games
played with them.

00:50:24.200 --> 00:50:26.367
That\'s what... that\'s what people
consider going to trial.

00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:27.667
Exercising your right

00:50:27.700 --> 00:50:29.733
is playing games
in the federal system.

00:50:29.767 --> 00:50:32.767
It\'s like going to trial is,

00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:35.133
you\'re a liar and you don\'t want
to take responsibility,

00:50:35.167 --> 00:50:37.000
and \"I can\'t believe this,\"

00:50:37.033 --> 00:50:39.167
when what you want to do is,
like, lay out all the evidence

00:50:39.200 --> 00:50:41.733
and say, \"Look,
this is the whole story.

00:50:41.767 --> 00:50:43.233
\"This is what actually happened.

00:50:43.267 --> 00:50:45.100
\"If I am guilty,
then convict me,

00:50:45.133 --> 00:50:47.200
\"but don\'t bank me.

00:50:47.233 --> 00:50:51.200
\"Don\'t, you know, give me,
you know, dozens of years more

00:50:51.233 --> 00:50:54.333
just because I wanted to have
the full story laid out.\"

00:50:54.367 --> 00:50:58.633
- The details and nuances of
informant involvement in cases

00:50:58.667 --> 00:51:00.567
often don\'t come to light

00:51:00.600 --> 00:51:04.167
because of the way that the law
allows the government

00:51:04.200 --> 00:51:05.533
to keep that stuff secret.

00:51:05.567 --> 00:51:08.500
In some ways, this is just
more of the same

00:51:08.533 --> 00:51:11.300
about the FBI\'s involvement
in the antiwar movement

00:51:11.333 --> 00:51:13.600
and civil rights movements
of the 1960s.

00:51:13.633 --> 00:51:16.167
- Yeah, but, I mean, I think
it\'s important for people

00:51:16.200 --> 00:51:18.067
to be able to question
the role of informants

00:51:18.100 --> 00:51:20.400
in these circumstances,
you know.

00:51:20.433 --> 00:51:22.300
I mean, how is the government
using informants?

00:51:22.333 --> 00:51:25.100
What role do they play in our
society and our justice system?

00:51:25.133 --> 00:51:28.000
That\'s more interesting to me,
is not just the informant

00:51:28.033 --> 00:51:31.033
but the government\'s role in how
they use these informants.

00:51:43.667 --> 00:51:46.333
- You know, I mean,
if you want to fight it, David,

00:51:46.367 --> 00:51:47.533
I mean, let\'s fight
the [...].

00:51:47.567 --> 00:51:49.000
I mean, I don\'t...

00:51:49.033 --> 00:51:50.500
- Dad, if you look
at the statistics

00:51:50.533 --> 00:51:52.500
of people who fight their cases
and people who win...

00:51:52.533 --> 00:51:54.167
- Yeah.

00:51:54.200 --> 00:51:55.667
- You almost
never win when you fight.

00:51:55.700 --> 00:51:57.600
- Yeah.

00:51:57.633 --> 00:51:59.633
- And it has nothing to do
with how guilty you are.

00:51:59.667 --> 00:52:01.267
It\'s how the system is built,
Dad.

00:52:01.300 --> 00:52:03.300
- Well, you want to do
the same thing,

00:52:03.333 --> 00:52:06.167
just get the best deal you can
and then move on?

00:52:06.200 --> 00:52:08.167
- Yeah.

00:52:08.200 --> 00:52:10.400
- It\'s your choice, and I don\'t
think it\'s a bad choice.

00:52:10.433 --> 00:52:14.000
Me, I\'m just thinking, [...],
the longest I\'ve spent in jail

00:52:14.033 --> 00:52:15.367
was four hours,

00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:18.367
and that drove me
absolutely [...] nuts.

00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:20.033
You know?

00:52:20.067 --> 00:52:22.533
I mean, it just...
You know, I can\'t...

00:52:22.567 --> 00:52:25.100
I could not stay two years.

00:52:25.133 --> 00:52:26.600
I mean, you know?

00:52:26.633 --> 00:52:28.300
I could... I mean, I just...

00:52:28.333 --> 00:52:30.267
- Thank you for using Evercom.

00:52:40.467 --> 00:52:46.100
- They won\'t take my simple...
You know, my simple request

00:52:46.133 --> 00:52:48.267
to just get possession
just like what Brad got,

00:52:48.300 --> 00:52:50.167
because they\'re already angry
with me

00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:53.300
for not playing by their book,

00:52:53.333 --> 00:52:56.700
by not telling them everything
about Bradley\'s involvement.

00:52:56.733 --> 00:52:59.200
So it\'s either
they get one of us

00:52:59.233 --> 00:53:00.633
and they give us a little time

00:53:00.667 --> 00:53:02.367
and then the other one becomes
the kingpin.

00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:03.640
That\'s the way it always works.

00:53:03.667 --> 00:53:05.133
- I stand by the evidence

00:53:05.167 --> 00:53:08.200
that Mr. McKay was fully willing
and able

00:53:08.233 --> 00:53:10.133
and intending to use
those Molotov cocktails

00:53:10.167 --> 00:53:12.000
on the night of September 2

00:53:12.033 --> 00:53:15.100
and law enforcement was able
to prevent it from happening.

00:53:15.133 --> 00:53:20.333
But it shows the mind-set
of Mr. McKay,

00:53:20.367 --> 00:53:28.367
and it shows how, at every point
where he had a decision to make

00:53:28.533 --> 00:53:31.500
whether to choose nonviolence
or to choose violence,

00:53:31.533 --> 00:53:34.133
he always chose the course
of violence,

00:53:34.167 --> 00:53:35.500
and it\'s very disturbing.

00:53:35.533 --> 00:53:38.633
- For the government
to really believe

00:53:38.667 --> 00:53:40.733
that they saved people

00:53:40.767 --> 00:53:44.033
and interrupted them
using Molotov cocktails

00:53:44.067 --> 00:53:47.733
is one of the most ludicrous
things I\'ve ever heard.

00:53:47.767 --> 00:53:50.633
He was gonna get on a plane
in three hours.

00:53:50.667 --> 00:53:52.600
He\'d purchased the tickets
a week before.

00:53:52.633 --> 00:53:55.033
I mean, it\'s just... it\'s crazy.

00:53:55.067 --> 00:54:01.767
- I don\'t know if the FBI
and Homeland Security,

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:05.300
you know, since 9/11,
they all went berserk and crazy,

00:54:05.333 --> 00:54:10.433
but everything about this case
stinks to me, as a father.

00:54:10.467 --> 00:54:14.733
What they want to do is grab
this so-called huge terrorist,

00:54:14.767 --> 00:54:18.300
my son, that has never done
any terror in his life,

00:54:18.333 --> 00:54:20.700
and they want to nail him
to the max.

00:54:32.433 --> 00:54:35.767
- How are you feeling
about the trial and...

00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:41.167
- Well, if I\'m found guilty
and I take my sentence,

00:54:41.200 --> 00:54:44.467
you know, I gotta do
what I have to do, you know.

00:54:44.500 --> 00:54:46.467
I can\'t... but I can\'t just
give up.

00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:50.233
And I can\'t let... I can\'t just
give in to a situation

00:54:50.267 --> 00:54:54.433
that would take total... you know,
take everything away from me.

00:54:54.467 --> 00:54:56.233
I\'m not going to let it
take away my...

00:54:56.267 --> 00:54:59.433
You know, who I am
or what I believe.

00:54:59.467 --> 00:55:01.633
- Okay.

00:55:01.667 --> 00:55:04.400
- I don\'t believe that what
they\'ve done is right.

00:55:06.067 --> 00:55:08.667
- I know that you\'re worried.

00:55:08.700 --> 00:55:10.633
I know that you\'re nervous.

00:55:10.667 --> 00:55:13.200
So am I, okay?

00:55:13.233 --> 00:55:15.467
Now it\'s coming down
to the midnight hour.

00:55:15.500 --> 00:55:16.667
- Yeah.

00:55:16.700 --> 00:55:18.067
- Okay?

00:55:18.100 --> 00:55:20.533
The only way to beat these guys

00:55:20.567 --> 00:55:22.033
is to go to court and beat them.

00:55:22.067 --> 00:55:23.233
- Yes, sir.

00:55:23.267 --> 00:55:25.100
- Okay?
- Yes, sir.

00:55:25.133 --> 00:55:27.600
- You know, it\'s David.
It\'s David against Goliath.

00:55:27.633 --> 00:55:29.167
- No [...].

00:55:29.200 --> 00:55:31.667
- Okay?
But, you know, David won.

00:55:31.700 --> 00:55:33.067
Remember?

00:55:33.100 --> 00:55:34.567
- Yes, sir.

00:55:34.600 --> 00:55:36.300
- So I don\'t want you to think
that, you know,

00:55:36.333 --> 00:55:38.533
just because they\'re big
and strong and crooked

00:55:38.567 --> 00:55:42.200
that they\'re invincible,
you know.

00:55:42.233 --> 00:55:45.033
And, you know,
you have a lot of courage.

00:55:45.067 --> 00:55:46.233
- Thanks, Dad.

00:55:46.267 --> 00:55:48.133
- You have a lot of courage,

00:55:48.167 --> 00:55:52.000
and I... I have a lot of respect
for you for that, you know.

00:55:52.033 --> 00:55:55.000
I want you to know
that if we lose,

00:55:55.033 --> 00:55:57.100
well, we\'re just going to lose
a few years,

00:55:57.133 --> 00:55:59.767
but after that, you know,
you\'ll have a wonderful life

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:01.267
after that so...

00:56:01.300 --> 00:56:02.500
Okay?

00:56:02.533 --> 00:56:04.367
And I\'ll make damn sure of that.

00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:08.433
I love you, and I will see you
in the courtroom tomorrow.

00:56:08.467 --> 00:56:10.000
- All right, I love you.

00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:14.200
- The federal trial starts today
for a Texas man

00:56:14.233 --> 00:56:17.167
accused of illegally possessing
Molotov cocktails

00:56:17.200 --> 00:56:20.467
during the Republican National
Convention in St. Paul.

00:56:20.500 --> 00:56:21.700
- Prosecutors say David McKay

00:56:21.733 --> 00:56:23.633
was part of
an Austin-based group

00:56:23.667 --> 00:56:27.767
planning to destroy property
or injure police during the RNC.

00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:29.333
Another man, Bradley Crowder,

00:56:29.367 --> 00:56:31.400
has already pleaded guilty
in the case.

00:56:44.300 --> 00:56:46.767
- On August 31, 2008,

00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:50.233
the day before the Republican
National Convention was to open,

00:56:50.267 --> 00:56:52.367
this defendant, David Guy McKay,

00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:55.667
chose, of his own volition
and for his own purposes,

00:56:55.700 --> 00:57:01.600
to manufacture eight firebombs,
also known as Molotov cocktails.

00:57:01.633 --> 00:57:05.200
Had he not been preempted by
law enforcement from doing this,

00:57:05.233 --> 00:57:07.233
he would have created
a grave risk

00:57:07.267 --> 00:57:11.000
of serious injury or even death
to many innocent people.

00:57:11.033 --> 00:57:14.200
That\'s why we\'re here today.

00:57:14.233 --> 00:57:17.200
- This is a case
about a government informant

00:57:17.233 --> 00:57:20.200
who took it upon himself
to make things happen,

00:57:20.233 --> 00:57:22.700
who took advantage
of a relationship that he had

00:57:22.733 --> 00:57:25.367
with a younger person
who admired him.

00:57:25.400 --> 00:57:28.167
At the end of this case,
ladies and gentlemen,

00:57:28.200 --> 00:57:32.467
I\'m going to ask you to find
David McKay not guilty.

00:57:32.500 --> 00:57:34.267
I\'m going to ask that

00:57:34.300 --> 00:57:38.300
because the government informant
entrapped David McKay.

00:57:38.333 --> 00:57:40.767
The government
is more responsible

00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:42.333
and more to be faulted

00:57:42.367 --> 00:57:44.400
for making
these Molotov cocktails

00:57:44.433 --> 00:57:46.733
than anybody else.

00:57:48.600 --> 00:57:50.300
- Basically,
it comes down to this:

00:57:50.333 --> 00:57:52.667
it\'s all right for an agent
of the government

00:57:52.700 --> 00:57:55.167
to take them to the edge
of the swimming pool

00:57:55.200 --> 00:57:57.100
but not to push them in.

00:57:57.133 --> 00:57:59.300
In other words,
the idea to commit a crime

00:57:59.333 --> 00:58:01.567
cannot come
from a government agent.

00:58:01.600 --> 00:58:04.333
That would be improper.
That would be inducement.

00:58:04.367 --> 00:58:06.500
- The law is:
Was David predisposed

00:58:06.533 --> 00:58:08.200
to do this kind of thing?

00:58:08.233 --> 00:58:10.333
That\'s essentially
what entrapment is.

00:58:10.367 --> 00:58:13.067
And it\'s not whether,
at the end of the time period,

00:58:13.100 --> 00:58:14.400
he was predisposed.

00:58:14.433 --> 00:58:16.167
It\'s when he first met,
you know.

00:58:16.200 --> 00:58:18.067
And if you think about it,
if a government agent

00:58:18.100 --> 00:58:20.167
is going to continually
work on you and manipulate you

00:58:20.200 --> 00:58:21.533
and try and beat you down,

00:58:21.567 --> 00:58:24.000
it doesn\'t matter
what it ends up as,

00:58:24.033 --> 00:58:26.067
but where did you start?

00:58:26.100 --> 00:58:31.400
- Before 9/11, your informant
was not allowed to do anything

00:58:31.433 --> 00:58:34.200
but listen and record.

00:58:34.233 --> 00:58:37.267
Eyes and ears.

00:58:37.300 --> 00:58:43.700
Today it\'s eyes, ears,
and the informant\'s mouth.

00:59:49.267 --> 00:59:52.100
- You would have never
taken these things

00:59:52.133 --> 00:59:55.500
and throw them on any people,
and that\'s all there is to it.

00:59:55.533 --> 00:59:57.067
That\'s why you didn\'t do it.

00:59:57.100 --> 00:59:59.033
- Dad, if they had a recorder,

00:59:59.067 --> 01:00:00.533
I wish
they would have recorded it.

01:00:00.567 --> 01:00:02.533
And I think they did;
I think they just got rid of it,

01:00:02.567 --> 01:00:06.133
because it shows that he\'s,
like, basically challenging me

01:00:06.167 --> 01:00:09.000
and bullying me into an idea.

01:00:09.033 --> 01:00:10.433
- Okay.

01:00:10.467 --> 01:00:12.767
- He... he led me down the path.

01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:16.233
- If it\'s serious enough
that we\'ve got informants,

01:00:16.267 --> 01:00:18.300
that we\'ve got
electronic equipment,

01:00:18.333 --> 01:00:21.067
we ought to be able
to record the conversation.

01:00:21.100 --> 01:00:26.167
And if it\'s not,
then I don\'t think

01:00:26.200 --> 01:00:29.233
we have any business
bringing it, bringing the case.

01:01:00.667 --> 01:01:02.400
- That question was something

01:01:02.433 --> 01:01:04.200
that the jury talked about
a lot,

01:01:04.233 --> 01:01:06.667
just whether or not
he should have been in this role

01:01:06.700 --> 01:01:08.767
as the FBI informant.

01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:12.567
Brandon Darby\'s testimony,
Brandon Darby\'s past,

01:01:12.600 --> 01:01:16.200
Brandon Darby\'s inclination
to be violent

01:01:16.233 --> 01:01:19.567
just really set people
kind of ill at ease,

01:01:19.600 --> 01:01:23.200
made them feel like this guy
is not trustworthy.

01:01:23.233 --> 01:01:27.733
It seems like David McKay\'s
testimony is more believable.

01:02:26.667 --> 01:02:28.033
[line ringing]

01:02:28.067 --> 01:02:29.233
- Hello?

01:02:29.267 --> 01:02:30.433
- Hi.

01:02:30.467 --> 01:02:31.633
- Hey.

01:02:31.667 --> 01:02:33.033
- How are you?

01:02:33.067 --> 01:02:34.667
- I\'m all right.

01:02:34.700 --> 01:02:37.033
- My mom told me that one of
the jurors smiled at you twice.

01:02:37.067 --> 01:02:38.367
- Uh, yeah.

01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:40.133
I think I have a chance,
you know.

01:02:40.167 --> 01:02:42.567
- Wow, babe.
I can\'t believe it.

01:02:42.600 --> 01:02:44.333
- Yeah, I know.

01:02:44.367 --> 01:02:46.067
Uh, how\'s Brad doing?

01:02:46.100 --> 01:02:49.067
- Brad\'s just waiting
for his sentencing,

01:02:49.100 --> 01:02:52.700
and he\'s, you know,
staying strong.

01:02:52.733 --> 01:02:55.300
And he always asks about you
and sends you his love,

01:02:55.333 --> 01:02:58.367
and I told Carter to tell Brad
that you love him a lot

01:02:58.400 --> 01:02:59.567
and you\'re thinking about him.

01:02:59.600 --> 01:03:01.267
- Yeah.

01:03:01.300 --> 01:03:03.300
Is there any way for him
to take his plea bargain back

01:03:03.333 --> 01:03:05.333
and argue his case?

01:03:05.367 --> 01:03:07.333
- I don\'t know.
I don\'t think so.

01:03:07.367 --> 01:03:10.133
- Yeah, me either.

01:03:10.167 --> 01:03:12.067
I was... I was in my cell today,

01:03:12.100 --> 01:03:13.367
just dreaming about you.

01:03:13.400 --> 01:03:15.033
- Yeah?

01:03:15.067 --> 01:03:17.733
- Thinking back to, I think,
right before I left,

01:03:17.767 --> 01:03:19.467
when you were laying
in the grass

01:03:19.500 --> 01:03:23.667
and I was up in the tree
and I was looking down on you.

01:03:23.700 --> 01:03:25.067
- Mm-hmm.

01:03:25.100 --> 01:03:26.533
- But I think it\'s okay to think

01:03:26.567 --> 01:03:28.333
that we\'re gonna hold
each other soon, so...

01:03:28.367 --> 01:03:29.700
- Okay.

01:03:29.733 --> 01:03:32.400
I do love you so much, David.

01:03:32.433 --> 01:03:34.433
And it doesn\'t matter
what happens;

01:03:34.467 --> 01:03:37.167
I always love you.

01:03:37.200 --> 01:03:40.267
- I love you too, Emily.

01:03:40.300 --> 01:03:43.067
And I promise I\'m gonna get
to you as soon as I can.

01:03:43.100 --> 01:03:44.300
- [tearfully] Okay.

01:03:44.333 --> 01:03:48.033
- Bye.
- Bye.

01:03:48.067 --> 01:03:51.567
- David McKay\'s federal trial
ended with a hung jury today.

01:03:51.600 --> 01:03:53.767
Prosecutors say McKay
was part of a group

01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:56.233
planning to destroy property
and injure police officers

01:03:56.267 --> 01:03:57.667
during the RNC.

01:03:57.700 --> 01:04:01.700
A new trial is now set to begin
on March 16th.

01:04:01.733 --> 01:04:03.600
- I\'m blessed to be out here.

01:04:03.633 --> 01:04:08.133
I\'m blessed to be with my dad,
so I just want to be able to go

01:04:08.167 --> 01:04:13.667
and, you know, cry with him
a little bit, probably, so...

01:04:18.233 --> 01:04:21.233
[light folk music]

01:04:25.100 --> 01:04:27.267
What\'s up, Morgan?

01:04:29.633 --> 01:04:31.000
- We\'re all here.

01:04:31.033 --> 01:04:32.200
- Yeah?

01:04:32.233 --> 01:04:33.400
- Yeah, we\'re all here.

01:04:33.433 --> 01:04:34.700
- How\'s it going, man?

01:04:34.733 --> 01:04:36.300
- David, good to see you.
- You too.

01:04:38.533 --> 01:04:41.000
- Come here, angel.

01:04:43.100 --> 01:04:48.333
- [singing] Eyes wide open

01:04:48.367 --> 01:04:54.067
Naked as we came

01:04:54.100 --> 01:05:02.100
One will spread our ashes
round the yard

01:05:12.300 --> 01:05:18.367
- Having a bro talk about babes
and surfing in Texas.

01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:21.000
\"Yeah, did you see those
one-footers out in Galveston?

01:05:21.033 --> 01:05:22.433
\"They were totally rad.

01:05:22.467 --> 01:05:25.200
\"I almost got up on my board
for a second or two.

01:05:25.233 --> 01:05:27.433
I was totally stoked, man.\"

01:05:27.467 --> 01:05:29.633
- See all those covered bridges.

01:05:29.667 --> 01:05:32.133
You know the movie
with Clint Eastwood and...

01:05:32.167 --> 01:05:33.367
- \"Bridges of Madison County.\"

01:05:33.400 --> 01:05:35.200
- \"The Bridges
of Madison County.\"

01:05:35.233 --> 01:05:37.533
I thought that would be cool
to really see those bridges.

01:05:37.567 --> 01:05:40.567
It\'s gonna...
I mean, they\'re very...

01:05:40.600 --> 01:05:42.500
- You know, I thought
when I got out

01:05:42.533 --> 01:05:45.700
that I would be like, you know,
\"Yay, freedom\" and happy

01:05:45.733 --> 01:05:48.400
and just, like, joyful
and, like, be able to run around

01:05:48.433 --> 01:05:50.333
and just enjoy everything.

01:05:50.367 --> 01:05:54.400
But, you know, now I\'m dealing
with the consequences

01:05:54.433 --> 01:05:57.233
of being in jail
for just five months.

01:05:57.267 --> 01:06:02.133
And I\'m extremely changed,
and there\'s a lot of...

01:06:02.167 --> 01:06:04.467
I\'m having a lot of problems
with just, you know,

01:06:04.500 --> 01:06:10.567
my emotional stability.

01:06:10.600 --> 01:06:13.033
So I think about just
what I\'ve been through already,

01:06:13.067 --> 01:06:16.433
and then I think about doing,
you know,

01:06:16.467 --> 01:06:18.700
ten times that amount of time.

01:06:18.733 --> 01:06:20.567
And in an environment like that,

01:06:20.600 --> 01:06:24.133
you don\'t know
what\'s going to happen to you.

01:06:24.167 --> 01:06:28.067
And I don\'t want to lose myself.

01:06:32.200 --> 01:06:34.100
- All right, man.

01:06:34.133 --> 01:06:36.033
All right, peace.

01:06:42.600 --> 01:06:45.600
What would you do
if I didn\'t go to trial

01:06:45.633 --> 01:06:48.533
and took a plea bargain?

01:06:48.567 --> 01:06:51.200
- I don\'t know.

01:06:52.667 --> 01:06:56.433
- What would you do
if I went to trial and lost?

01:06:59.567 --> 01:07:03.133
- Um...

01:07:03.167 --> 01:07:07.033
it\'s hard to be realistic,
you know.

01:07:07.067 --> 01:07:10.167
It\'s hard to...

01:07:10.200 --> 01:07:17.733
\'cause I\'d like to say
that, you know,

01:07:17.767 --> 01:07:22.733
I could wait 20 years for you
or 50 years

01:07:22.767 --> 01:07:25.433
or however long it is,

01:07:25.467 --> 01:07:32.000
but it\'s hard to admit that
that\'s probably not...

01:07:32.033 --> 01:07:34.500
healthy.

01:07:34.533 --> 01:07:36.633
- You don\'t think it\'s realistic
that I can win?

01:07:36.667 --> 01:07:38.667
- No, I do, but I think that...

01:07:38.700 --> 01:07:40.667
- You think it\'s more realistic
that I\'ll lose?

01:07:40.700 --> 01:07:42.700
- No, I think... I think...

01:07:42.733 --> 01:07:44.400
- Straight down,
6-6 down the middle?

01:07:44.433 --> 01:07:46.000
- No, I think that you...

01:07:46.033 --> 01:07:47.767
If it were up to me,
you would win,

01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:49.733
if I was on the jury.

01:07:49.767 --> 01:07:51.200
- What if it was just
someone else?

01:07:51.233 --> 01:07:53.100
- Yeah.

01:07:53.133 --> 01:07:57.500
If I was listening objectively
to what my instructions were,

01:07:57.533 --> 01:08:01.600
like I said,
without any reasonable doubt...

01:08:06.200 --> 01:08:08.533
I would have plenty of doubts
in your case.

01:08:08.567 --> 01:08:10.400
But there are gonna be people

01:08:10.433 --> 01:08:13.367
who see you as a terrorist
and that\'s it.

01:08:13.400 --> 01:08:17.200
They\'re not gonna see you
as a person or as David.

01:08:19.500 --> 01:08:23.100
And those are the people
that really scare me, you know.

01:08:36.400 --> 01:08:38.333
- I\'ve been a prosecutor
for over 20 years

01:08:38.367 --> 01:08:40.333
and, I don\'t know,
tried 70-some trials.

01:08:40.367 --> 01:08:42.700
This was my second hung jury,

01:08:42.733 --> 01:08:45.700
and, no, it\'s not...
It\'s not a good experience.

01:08:45.733 --> 01:08:48.400
But what you do
after a hung jury is,

01:08:48.433 --> 01:08:51.433
you evaluate
where you can do better,

01:08:51.467 --> 01:08:53.133
and you go back
and get more evidence,

01:08:53.167 --> 01:08:55.033
and you prepare,
for the second trial,

01:08:55.067 --> 01:09:01.167
to meet the defense that was
used in the first trial.

01:09:01.200 --> 01:09:03.500
That\'s all in the nature
of the work.

01:09:05.367 --> 01:09:08.467
[phone ringing]

01:09:08.500 --> 01:09:09.767
- Hello?

01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:12.267
- This is a collect call from...

01:09:12.300 --> 01:09:13.667
- Brad.

01:09:13.700 --> 01:09:16.433
- An inmate at the Sherburne
County Jail.

01:09:16.467 --> 01:09:17.700
- Hello?
- Hey, babe.

01:09:17.733 --> 01:09:19.100
- Hey, Mom.

01:09:19.133 --> 01:09:20.600
- What\'s up?

01:09:20.633 --> 01:09:22.767
- Not much, just got
off the phone with Andrew.

01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:24.300
- Uh-huh, and?

01:09:24.333 --> 01:09:25.533
- Interesting news.

01:09:25.567 --> 01:09:27.767
- What?

01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:31.367
- The government\'s trying
to compel my testimony.

01:09:31.400 --> 01:09:33.667
- They\'re trying to do what?

01:09:33.700 --> 01:09:35.600
- They\'re threatening me.

01:09:35.633 --> 01:09:37.400
- Oh.

01:09:37.433 --> 01:09:39.367
Well, what\'s that gonna do?

01:09:39.400 --> 01:09:43.633
- It could give me more time.

01:09:43.667 --> 01:09:46.467
- [sighs]
\'Cause they want you to testify?

01:09:46.500 --> 01:09:49.000
- Yes.

01:09:49.033 --> 01:09:51.467
- All right, well,
I know what you...

01:09:51.500 --> 01:09:53.700
I know what you\'re gonna tell me
you\'re gonna do.

01:09:53.733 --> 01:09:56.567
- Yeah, well, I mean, yeah,
of course.

01:09:58.567 --> 01:10:02.133
- But you need to...
Remember you need to do

01:10:02.167 --> 01:10:04.400
what\'s best for you, Bradley.

01:10:04.433 --> 01:10:06.167
- I am, Mom.

01:10:06.200 --> 01:10:07.667
This is... look,
I can take responsibility

01:10:07.700 --> 01:10:09.233
for my actions, okay?

01:10:09.267 --> 01:10:10.667
I have no problem doing that,
you know.

01:10:10.700 --> 01:10:12.300
- Mm-hmm.

01:10:12.333 --> 01:10:14.300
- I followed the rules,
and I played the game,

01:10:14.333 --> 01:10:16.667
and I took responsibility
for my actions, okay?

01:10:16.700 --> 01:10:20.267
It\'s not my obligation
or responsibility

01:10:20.300 --> 01:10:24.300
to assist the federal government
in doing their job.

01:10:24.333 --> 01:10:29.333
- They\'re trying to make him
testify against David.

01:10:31.133 --> 01:10:35.133
They\'re threatening him
with longer time,

01:10:35.167 --> 01:10:38.567
and they\'re going to keep him
in there if he doesn\'t testify.

01:10:41.300 --> 01:10:45.600
And he won\'t testify
against David.

01:10:45.633 --> 01:10:53.067
You know that I\'ve always been
so proud of my country.

01:10:53.100 --> 01:10:57.533
My daddy fought
for this country, you know.

01:10:57.567 --> 01:11:00.233
And...

01:11:00.267 --> 01:11:06.233
it\'s heartbreaking, you know.

01:11:11.133 --> 01:11:13.700
I just would like to go up
and say, \"What is the deal?

01:11:13.733 --> 01:11:15.400
\"You know, grow up.

01:11:15.433 --> 01:11:19.467
\"There are so many
more important things, issues

01:11:19.500 --> 01:11:21.600
\"that need to be dealt with,

01:11:21.633 --> 01:11:28.600
\"and you\'re after
two silly little boys

01:11:28.633 --> 01:11:32.733
\"that were influenced
by one of your people

01:11:32.767 --> 01:11:37.633
\"that you probably manipulated
into getting there

01:11:37.667 --> 01:11:40.600
to begin with.\"

01:11:40.633 --> 01:11:44.167
You know, it\'s...

01:11:44.200 --> 01:11:46.067
I think that\'s...
I don\'t know.

01:11:46.100 --> 01:11:50.267
I don\'t have a clue how Brandon
ended up like he was,

01:11:50.300 --> 01:11:54.033
but I think it\'s just like
they\'re trying to do to Bradley.

01:11:54.067 --> 01:11:56.167
You know, I don\'t want...

01:11:56.200 --> 01:12:04.200
I don\'t wish anything bad
for David at all, but...

01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:07.167
you know, I do; I want my baby.

01:12:31.333 --> 01:12:33.467
- So I\'ve got some news.

01:12:33.500 --> 01:12:35.733
- When I first received
the phone call

01:12:35.767 --> 01:12:38.033
and I was told they were trying
to compel my testimony,

01:12:38.067 --> 01:12:40.600
I was thinking it was, like,
a six months extra sentence,

01:12:40.633 --> 01:12:44.333
and so I was like, \"Pfft,
six months, whatever.\"

01:12:44.367 --> 01:12:45.700
And then, like, my attorney,
Andrew,

01:12:45.733 --> 01:12:48.667
came up to the jail
on a Saturday

01:12:48.700 --> 01:12:50.533
to, like, go over it with me,
and he was saying...

01:12:50.567 --> 01:12:52.500
He was like, \"I don\'t think
you really understand

01:12:52.533 --> 01:12:54.133
exactly what we\'re dealing with
here.\"

01:12:54.167 --> 01:12:55.533
And it was looking
a lot more serious,

01:12:55.567 --> 01:12:58.500
like upwards of seven years.

01:12:58.533 --> 01:13:01.433
He laid the paperwork out,
and I remember reading this,

01:13:01.467 --> 01:13:03.233
this situation where David said

01:13:03.267 --> 01:13:09.000
that Brandon told the two of us
to make these Molotov cocktails,

01:13:09.033 --> 01:13:11.167
and I knew that Brandon
didn\'t tell me

01:13:11.200 --> 01:13:14.167
to make any Molotov cocktails.

01:13:14.200 --> 01:13:16.600
And I was...
I was staring at the table,

01:13:16.633 --> 01:13:18.533
and it was just a shock,
you know.

01:13:18.567 --> 01:13:20.167
I was like,
\"Why did you do this to me?

01:13:20.200 --> 01:13:21.500
\"Why did you include me?

01:13:21.533 --> 01:13:22.853
\"Why didn\'t you think about,
like,

01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:24.500
\"what I had said
on the stand already,

01:13:24.533 --> 01:13:28.367
and why did you make me...
Put me in this situation?\"

01:13:28.400 --> 01:13:31.567
I mean, when I found out
that David lied on the stand,

01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:33.033
it was a nightmare.

01:13:33.067 --> 01:13:34.533
You know, it didn\'t feel real,

01:13:34.567 --> 01:13:38.367
because I would be the nail
in his coffin.

01:13:44.200 --> 01:13:46.767
- If Brad gets on the stand
and makes something up

01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:48.167
and tells you that...

01:13:48.200 --> 01:13:49.633
- I can\'t control that.

01:13:49.667 --> 01:13:51.600
- It was all your fault
and it was all you doing it

01:13:51.633 --> 01:13:53.133
and it was all this doing...

01:13:53.167 --> 01:13:54.500
- But I can\'t control
what he says.

01:13:54.533 --> 01:13:56.667
- I know, but what you can do,
though, is,

01:13:56.700 --> 01:13:58.200
when you get on the stand...

01:13:58.233 --> 01:13:59.700
- But I\'ve already said
the truth, Dad.

01:13:59.733 --> 01:14:03.233
Brad had the opportunity
to testify against me at first.

01:14:03.267 --> 01:14:04.567
- Yeah.

01:14:04.600 --> 01:14:06.333
- And he had enough integrity
in himself

01:14:06.367 --> 01:14:07.733
to know that he made
his own decision

01:14:07.767 --> 01:14:09.300
and he wasn\'t gonna make
his decision

01:14:09.333 --> 01:14:11.033
be the consequence of me,

01:14:11.067 --> 01:14:13.000
because he knew that I was gonna
take this to trial.

01:14:13.033 --> 01:14:14.767
In fact, it was actually
his idea in the beginning

01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:16.633
to go to trial.

01:14:16.667 --> 01:14:19.733
- \'Cause at this point, Brad,
he\'s scared, lonely,

01:14:19.767 --> 01:14:22.067
doesn\'t have anybody
to support him.

01:14:22.100 --> 01:14:23.767
He\'s looking out for number one.

01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:25.433
He\'s looking out
for his own ass.

01:14:25.467 --> 01:14:27.100
We\'re just gonna find out...

01:14:27.133 --> 01:14:28.733
- I think at this point,
it\'s about integrity

01:14:28.767 --> 01:14:30.100
and David\'s integrity.

01:14:30.133 --> 01:14:31.733
- It\'s not.

01:14:31.767 --> 01:14:33.733
It\'s about accountability,
is what it\'s about.

01:14:33.767 --> 01:14:35.400
- It\'s not about integrity.

01:14:35.433 --> 01:14:37.167
It\'s about who\'s gonna lie
the [...] best.

01:14:37.200 --> 01:14:38.367
- Both sides,

01:14:38.400 --> 01:14:40.200
both the defense
and the prosecutor,

01:14:40.233 --> 01:14:41.733
are exaggerating in favor.

01:14:41.767 --> 01:14:44.767
You know, it\'s two exaggerations
of the truth.

01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:46.533
You can\'t go in there
and say the truth,

01:14:46.567 --> 01:14:49.600
because the truth
doesn\'t help anybody.

01:14:49.633 --> 01:14:51.233
They don\'t want to hear
the truth.

01:14:51.267 --> 01:14:53.567
They don\'t want to even
acknowledge the truth,

01:14:53.600 --> 01:14:55.233
because this isn\'t
about justice,

01:14:55.267 --> 01:14:57.267
and this isn\'t about
doing the right thing,

01:14:57.300 --> 01:14:59.567
and it\'s not about them taking
responsibility for anything.

01:14:59.600 --> 01:15:02.133
You know, this is about there
being a winner and a loser.

01:15:02.167 --> 01:15:04.267
- And covering their asses.
- That\'s right.

01:15:04.300 --> 01:15:07.667
- Because who knows
what other cases this guy is on,

01:15:07.700 --> 01:15:10.467
and clearing his name
is extremely important.

01:15:10.500 --> 01:15:12.333
- I understand all that.

01:15:12.367 --> 01:15:14.000
- You had to get busted
for something.

01:15:14.033 --> 01:15:15.600
Somebody had to get busted.

01:15:15.633 --> 01:15:17.667
I mean, the convention\'s
gonna come to an end,

01:15:17.700 --> 01:15:20.767
everybody\'s gonna go home,
and nothing\'s gonna happen?

01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:23.700
Somebody had to be arrested.

01:15:23.733 --> 01:15:26.200
FBI\'s not gonna spend
nine months

01:15:26.233 --> 01:15:28.700
on some investigation and not...

01:15:28.733 --> 01:15:30.300
You know, they have to,
at the end,

01:15:30.333 --> 01:15:32.000
they have to go
to their superior and say,

01:15:32.033 --> 01:15:34.033
\"Oh, yeah, all that money,
we spent it wisely.

01:15:34.067 --> 01:15:38.100
Look, we took this big... these
huge terrorists off the street.\"

01:15:38.133 --> 01:15:40.333
You know, this is...
It\'s ridiculous.

01:15:40.367 --> 01:15:44.367
It\'s absolutely ridiculous.

01:16:17.667 --> 01:16:19.367
[line ringing]

01:16:19.400 --> 01:16:20.567
- Hello?

01:16:20.600 --> 01:16:22.200
- Hello, this is a collect call
from...

01:16:22.233 --> 01:16:24.000
- David.

01:16:24.033 --> 01:16:29.200
- An inmate at the Sherburne
County Jail in Minnesota.

01:16:32.667 --> 01:16:34.600
- I\'m sorry, you know.

01:16:34.633 --> 01:16:36.000
- Okay.

01:16:36.033 --> 01:16:38.533
- You know that, okay?

01:16:38.567 --> 01:16:41.167
- Yeah, I know.

01:16:41.200 --> 01:16:43.033
- David McKay initially claimed

01:16:43.067 --> 01:16:45.267
he was entrapped
by a government informant,

01:16:45.300 --> 01:16:47.433
but now the Austin, Texas,
resident admits

01:16:47.467 --> 01:16:49.100
he and co-defendant
Bradley Crowder

01:16:49.133 --> 01:16:51.200
would have made the bombs
no matter what.

01:16:51.233 --> 01:16:53.700
McKay pled guilty
to three charges.

01:16:53.733 --> 01:16:56.267
- I just miss you a lot.

01:16:57.300 --> 01:16:59.400
- I know.

01:17:01.667 --> 01:17:04.333
And it\'s gonna be a long time,
I know.

01:17:04.367 --> 01:17:07.200
- I know.

01:17:07.233 --> 01:17:08.767
You\'re just, you know...

01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:11.233
I mean, you know how much
you mean to me

01:17:11.267 --> 01:17:15.767
and how big a part of my life
you are.

01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:17.600
- Yeah.
- And...

01:17:17.633 --> 01:17:19.567
- You have one minute left.

01:17:19.600 --> 01:17:21.367
- The whole thing about us

01:17:21.400 --> 01:17:24.067
not taking the really good deal
that we had was that, you know,

01:17:24.100 --> 01:17:28.200
they were getting out of,
you know, having to accept

01:17:28.233 --> 01:17:31.733
what they did was wrong,
you know.

01:17:31.767 --> 01:17:35.167
It was like we were... we were
holding them accountable.

01:17:35.200 --> 01:17:37.533
- You know, ultimately,
that\'s not your job.

01:17:37.567 --> 01:17:39.067
- Yeah.

01:17:39.100 --> 01:17:40.633
- It really isn\'t, David.
- I know.

01:17:40.667 --> 01:17:43.467
I mean,
there are plenty of people

01:17:43.500 --> 01:17:47.300
sitting in prison that have
tried to change things,

01:17:47.333 --> 01:17:49.500
and, you know...

01:17:54.133 --> 01:17:56.333
- You can\'t call me back again,
can you?

01:17:56.367 --> 01:17:57.567
- I don\'t think so.

01:17:57.600 --> 01:17:59.700
I\'m about to get locked down.

01:17:59.733 --> 01:18:01.100
- Okay.

01:18:01.133 --> 01:18:02.300
- All right?

01:18:02.333 --> 01:18:04.233
- I love you so much, David.

01:18:04.267 --> 01:18:05.467
- I love you too, Emily.

01:18:05.500 --> 01:18:07.533
Don\'t be sad, okay?

01:18:07.567 --> 01:18:09.100
- I know.

01:18:09.133 --> 01:18:10.700
- Just put it...
Just put it in your pocket.

01:18:10.733 --> 01:18:12.100
- Yeah.

01:18:12.133 --> 01:18:14.600
- Thank you for using Evercom.

01:18:19.433 --> 01:18:22.500
- I had always really pushed
and wanted,

01:18:22.533 --> 01:18:24.500
if there was gonna be
a sentence for him,

01:18:24.533 --> 01:18:27.033
that it was gonna be something
in the two-to three-year range,

01:18:27.067 --> 01:18:29.300
\'cause I really felt,
in my experience,

01:18:29.333 --> 01:18:31.367
that people that go to prison
for longer than that

01:18:31.400 --> 01:18:35.733
are really changed,
not in a good way,

01:18:35.767 --> 01:18:39.000
and I really saw so many good...
See so many good things

01:18:39.033 --> 01:18:40.467
in his character
and his personality

01:18:40.500 --> 01:18:45.367
that I really wanted that
to not change.

01:18:45.400 --> 01:18:48.433
I felt a responsibility
to not have that change,

01:18:48.467 --> 01:18:50.167
and I hope that doesn\'t happen.

01:18:50.200 --> 01:18:52.300
I hope he stays positive.

01:19:02.067 --> 01:19:05.267
- All the dreams I have,
I\'m in prison,

01:19:05.300 --> 01:19:08.500
which is strange,
to see your subconscious takes

01:19:08.533 --> 01:19:14.033
on the walls in your reality,
which I thought was weird.

01:19:16.500 --> 01:19:20.100
I mean, extreme amounts
of anxiety

01:19:20.133 --> 01:19:21.400
in almost all my dreams.

01:19:21.433 --> 01:19:23.633
There\'s always
some sort of dilemma

01:19:23.667 --> 01:19:26.700
that I can\'t get myself
away from.

01:19:30.167 --> 01:19:33.700
You\'re fearful
about losing somebody you love

01:19:33.733 --> 01:19:36.400
and not being able to be there

01:19:36.433 --> 01:19:38.533
and not being able
to say good-bye.

01:19:40.133 --> 01:19:44.300
You know, it scares the [...]
out of you.

01:19:44.333 --> 01:19:47.233
You know?

01:19:47.267 --> 01:19:51.600
Your own actions have taken...
Taken you away from somebody

01:19:51.633 --> 01:19:54.400
who might need you, you know,
in the future,

01:19:54.433 --> 01:19:57.567
and you can\'t be there
for that person.

01:19:59.733 --> 01:20:06.000
Yeah, you can\'t feel anything
but shame and guilt,

01:20:06.033 --> 01:20:08.233
because I want nothing more
than to be there

01:20:08.267 --> 01:20:09.700
for the people that I love.

01:20:11.633 --> 01:20:13.133
I don\'t know.

01:20:13.167 --> 01:20:16.500
It\'s gonna be a bumpy road,
I think.

01:20:20.400 --> 01:20:21.567
I love you.

01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:23.567
- I love you.

01:20:41.367 --> 01:20:43.200
- I have reviewed this case
very carefully,

01:20:43.233 --> 01:20:45.733
and as the prosecutor
in charge of prosecuting it,

01:20:45.767 --> 01:20:48.400
if I had thought that the
informant had crossed the line,

01:20:48.433 --> 01:20:50.367
if I had thought
that there had been inducement,

01:20:50.400 --> 01:20:52.300
we wouldn\'t have been here.

01:20:52.333 --> 01:20:55.733
And I have no problems with what
Mr. Darby did in this case.

01:20:55.767 --> 01:20:57.733
I\'m thankful that he was there

01:20:57.767 --> 01:21:00.367
and willing to help prevent
violence.

01:21:00.400 --> 01:21:02.333
You know, how nice
would it have been

01:21:02.367 --> 01:21:06.000
to have an informant
into the 9/11 terrorists?

01:21:06.033 --> 01:21:11.433
- It\'s pretty clear
from both plea agreements

01:21:11.467 --> 01:21:18.467
on the part of Crowder and McKay
that they were not influenced.

01:21:18.500 --> 01:21:21.733
They were not entrapped.

01:21:21.767 --> 01:21:25.267
They were specifically asked
if this decision was theirs,

01:21:25.300 --> 01:21:29.500
if they were influenced to do it
by anyone else,

01:21:29.533 --> 01:21:31.333
and they said no.

01:21:33.433 --> 01:21:36.133
- Do I think that if I would
have never met Brandon Darby,

01:21:36.167 --> 01:21:39.700
that these things
would have happened?

01:21:39.733 --> 01:21:43.267
You know, the crime,
my incarceration?

01:21:46.533 --> 01:21:47.767
I mean, no, I don\'t.

01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:49.567
I don\'t think they would have.

01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:53.167
I mean, it\'s hard for me to,
you know, point fingers

01:21:53.200 --> 01:21:57.400
for my own actions,
because, I mean,

01:21:57.433 --> 01:21:59.733
Brandon Darby didn\'t hold a gun
to my head and make me do it,

01:21:59.767 --> 01:22:02.667
but the guy taught me a lot,

01:22:02.700 --> 01:22:05.633
and that\'s really all I can say
about it, you know.

01:22:07.700 --> 01:22:10.300
- I don\'t feel 100?rtain
of anything.

01:22:10.333 --> 01:22:13.567
It depends when you ask me,
you know.

01:22:13.600 --> 01:22:15.600
It depends when you ask.

01:22:15.633 --> 01:22:19.400
Sometimes I feel bad enough
for them

01:22:19.433 --> 01:22:22.333
that I don\'t go to sleep.

01:22:22.367 --> 01:22:24.133
They made their choices.

01:22:24.167 --> 01:22:25.367
You know, I made my choices.

01:22:25.400 --> 01:22:28.433
And we both have things
to live with.

01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:32.600
- You know,
I saw at my motions hearing

01:22:32.633 --> 01:22:34.700
an FBI agent lie on the stand,
and, you know,

01:22:34.733 --> 01:22:36.500
when you see something like that

01:22:36.533 --> 01:22:38.367
and you see what they\'re trying
to turn you into,

01:22:38.400 --> 01:22:40.367
you get hopeless.

01:22:40.400 --> 01:22:43.000
And you sit here in a room
with a hundred guys

01:22:43.033 --> 01:22:45.133
who have no chance
of fighting their case.

01:22:45.167 --> 01:22:47.167
They\'re all getting
10 and 15 years,

01:22:47.200 --> 01:22:49.133
and they\'re caught
on these conspiracy cases

01:22:49.167 --> 01:22:50.733
where they\'re not even caught
with anything.

01:22:50.767 --> 01:22:54.500
And you know
and you\'re hearing about

01:22:54.533 --> 01:22:56.267
the injustice
of the justice system,

01:22:56.300 --> 01:22:58.000
and you\'re like, \"What do I do?\"

01:22:58.033 --> 01:22:59.633
I know some people
are gonna look at it and say,

01:22:59.667 --> 01:23:01.400
\"Well, if he lied about this,

01:23:01.433 --> 01:23:03.567
then Brandon probably had
no involvement whatsoever.\"

01:23:03.600 --> 01:23:06.000
You know, when it came down
to the factual evidence of:

01:23:06.033 --> 01:23:07.367
Did he give me the idea

01:23:07.400 --> 01:23:09.267
to come up
with the Molotov cocktails?

01:23:09.300 --> 01:23:10.667
No, that wasn\'t the truth.

01:23:10.700 --> 01:23:13.133
But I felt like Brandon Darby
entrapped me

01:23:13.167 --> 01:23:15.133
the whole entire situation,

01:23:15.167 --> 01:23:16.733
and I said it was
a three-way conversation

01:23:16.767 --> 01:23:18.567
between me, Brad, and Brandon

01:23:18.600 --> 01:23:21.700
because I wanted Brad to be,
you know, protected under that.

01:23:21.733 --> 01:23:23.733
Paying for my actions
was something

01:23:23.767 --> 01:23:26.533
that I was willing to accept
immediately,

01:23:26.567 --> 01:23:31.400
and I have plenty of evidence
if you need it.

01:23:31.433 --> 01:23:32.633
But they wanted more.

01:23:32.667 --> 01:23:34.367
They didn\'t just want...

01:23:34.400 --> 01:23:36.233
They didn\'t want two kids
who made a mistake.

01:23:36.267 --> 01:23:38.700
They wanted two terrorists
who were gonna hurt people.

01:23:38.733 --> 01:23:40.267
And that\'s not what we are,

01:23:40.300 --> 01:23:41.667
and that\'s not
what we believe in,

01:23:41.700 --> 01:23:43.200
and that\'s not
what we were a part of,

01:23:43.233 --> 01:23:45.033
and that\'s what
they want it to be,

01:23:45.067 --> 01:23:47.167
because it legitimizes
everything that they\'ve done.

01:23:47.200 --> 01:23:50.600
And I don\'t agree
with what they\'ve done to us.

01:23:52.233 --> 01:23:54.633
And it was the only way
to fight.

01:24:08.367 --> 01:24:10.600
- Oh!

01:24:10.633 --> 01:24:12.400
- All right, man.
Good luck.

01:24:12.433 --> 01:24:14.467
- [laughs]

01:24:14.500 --> 01:24:17.267
Look at you.

01:24:17.300 --> 01:24:18.600
Oh, man.

01:24:18.633 --> 01:24:20.700
- What\'s going on, man?

01:24:20.733 --> 01:24:23.200
- Bradley.

01:24:26.000 --> 01:24:27.633
- Man\'s looking sharp,
got an armful of books.

01:24:27.667 --> 01:24:29.267
- I know, man.

01:24:29.300 --> 01:24:30.733
- Let\'s get the [...]
out of here, dude.

01:24:30.767 --> 01:24:32.567
[laughs]

01:24:32.600 --> 01:24:34.333
- Oh, hey, wave.

01:24:34.367 --> 01:24:36.207
You know, I try not to think
about it too hard.

01:24:36.233 --> 01:24:38.167
Sometimes I get really upset.

01:24:38.200 --> 01:24:42.567
But I\'ve learned
and grown immeasurably,

01:24:42.600 --> 01:24:44.033
and I think it\'s made me

01:24:44.067 --> 01:24:47.000
a much stronger, wiser,
better person.

01:24:47.033 --> 01:24:48.367
Thank you.

01:24:48.400 --> 01:24:52.167
\"Que queremos? Amnistia.
Cuando? Ahora.\"

01:24:52.200 --> 01:24:54.200
Oh, is this, like,
the whole chant?

01:24:56.633 --> 01:24:59.333
And now that I\'m out, well,
I just want to find a place

01:24:59.367 --> 01:25:01.133
where I can do good work
in the community

01:25:01.167 --> 01:25:02.767
and try to help build
positive movements

01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:06.433
for, like, you know,
transformative social change.

01:25:06.467 --> 01:25:10.267
All in all, I try to focus
on, like, the positive things:

01:25:10.300 --> 01:25:12.067
the self-discipline
that I\'ve developed,

01:25:12.100 --> 01:25:16.067
the maturity, and the wisdom.

01:25:16.100 --> 01:25:18.633
There\'s constantly a
dehumanizing pressure in prison,

01:25:18.667 --> 01:25:21.633
and it takes a real strong,
like, psychological battle

01:25:21.667 --> 01:25:24.267
to fight against, you know,
giving up,

01:25:24.300 --> 01:25:26.533
to fight against, you know,
despondency and despair

01:25:26.567 --> 01:25:28.767
that comes from prison.

01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:31.433
Crowd: Stand up!
Fight back!

01:25:33.367 --> 01:25:35.033
You know, overall,
I got love for David,

01:25:35.067 --> 01:25:36.667
and I think about him a lot.

01:25:36.700 --> 01:25:38.667
I want to, like, support him
while he\'s in there,

01:25:38.700 --> 01:25:41.367
and I want to, like, be there
for him when he gets out.

01:25:41.400 --> 01:25:43.500
That\'s important to me.

01:25:43.533 --> 01:25:46.000
I mean, in the end,
if they were trying

01:25:46.033 --> 01:25:48.067
to turn me against David
or David against me,

01:25:48.100 --> 01:25:51.300
I think they absolutely failed.

01:25:51.333 --> 01:25:53.700
Our friendship is, like,
bigger and stronger

01:25:53.733 --> 01:25:55.700
than anything the government,
the state, you know,

01:25:55.733 --> 01:25:58.633
and repression can do.

01:25:58.667 --> 01:26:01.067
I would have to say,
at the end of the day,

01:26:01.100 --> 01:26:02.500
there\'s a very thick
silver lining

01:26:02.533 --> 01:26:05.000
to a very dark cloud.

01:26:13.000 --> 01:26:14.533
[knocking]

01:26:18.200 --> 01:26:20.267
Hang on, I gotta go;
it\'s my mama.

01:26:20.300 --> 01:26:21.667
Bye.

01:26:21.700 --> 01:26:23.067
All right, bye.

01:26:23.100 --> 01:26:25.100
Hey, Mama.

01:26:27.767 --> 01:26:30.700
So good to see you.

01:26:32.400 --> 01:26:34.233
- I love you so much.

01:26:34.267 --> 01:26:36.367
- I love you too, Mama.

01:26:50.767 --> 01:26:52.667
- Should we give it a try?

01:26:52.700 --> 01:26:54.367
- Sure.

01:26:54.400 --> 01:26:57.233
[indistinct conversation]

01:26:58.633 --> 01:27:00.000
All right, what do I do?

01:27:00.033 --> 01:27:01.300
- Always in the camera.

01:27:01.333 --> 01:27:03.567
- Into that thing.
- Yeah.

01:27:05.133 --> 01:27:07.400
- You are about to enter
the American sector.

01:27:07.433 --> 01:27:08.667
[airplanes engines roaring]

01:27:08.700 --> 01:27:12.667
- G. Gordon Liddy.

01:27:12.700 --> 01:27:14.467
- And it is I, G. Gordon.

01:27:14.500 --> 01:27:18.567
All right, ladies and gentlemen,
joining me now is Brandon Darby,

01:27:18.600 --> 01:27:23.700
a very prominent radical leftist
who had an epiphany

01:27:23.733 --> 01:27:27.333
and who now works
attempting to defend

01:27:27.367 --> 01:27:30.433
against left-wing radical
violence in this country.

01:27:30.467 --> 01:27:31.767
- Good morning, Mr. Liddy.

01:27:32.000 --> 01:27:33.567
It\'s an honor
to be on your show.

01:27:33.600 --> 01:27:35.267
- Good morning.
Good morning, Brandon.

01:27:35.300 --> 01:27:37.233
Brandon, tell us, if you will,

01:27:37.267 --> 01:27:41.167
some of the details of this plot
to assassinate people

01:27:41.200 --> 01:27:45.100
at the Republican
National Convention in 2008.

01:27:45.133 --> 01:27:49.033
- They were a specific group,
and they were anarchists,

01:27:49.067 --> 01:27:50.507
and it was
a very coordinated effort.

01:27:50.533 --> 01:27:53.233
It was run
almost as a military campaign

01:27:53.267 --> 01:27:55.167
to actually attack
law enforcement

01:27:55.200 --> 01:27:56.433
and attack Republicans

01:27:56.467 --> 01:27:58.467
and prevent Republicans
from meeting.

01:27:58.500 --> 01:28:02.000
So they\'re
America-hating Americans.

01:28:03.467 --> 01:28:09.067
[poignant piano music]

01:28:24.667 --> 01:28:30.000
- [singing] Everything
that I believe in

01:28:30.033 --> 01:28:35.567
Earth, the sky,
and all between them

01:28:35.600 --> 01:28:40.567
I kissed your face,
your tired eyes

01:28:40.600 --> 01:28:43.467
What do you believe in?

01:28:43.500 --> 01:28:47.133
How do you get by?

01:28:47.167 --> 01:28:52.167
[piano and guitar music]