00:00:05.315 --> 00:00:07.450
[ Woman speaking Spanish ]

00:00:07.450 --> 00:00:09.519
[ Woman speaking
native language ]

00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:12.055
[ Man speaking
native language ]

00:00:12.055 --> 00:00:13.690
[ Man speaking German ]
...in Deutschland.

00:00:13.690 --> 00:00:15.425
MAN: Hospitals overwhelmed,

00:00:15.425 --> 00:00:19.029
first responders sick
in extraordinary numbers.

00:00:19.029 --> 00:00:22.599
MAN #2: Never in anybody's
imagination, in less than

00:00:22.599 --> 00:00:23.967
a year, you would actually
have vaccine

00:00:23.967 --> 00:00:25.335
going into somebody's arm.

00:00:25.335 --> 00:00:27.504
MAN #3: I will not be injected
with something

00:00:27.504 --> 00:00:29.072
that you cannot prove is safe.

00:00:29.072 --> 00:00:31.207
MAN #4: What's the point to take
a vaccine

00:00:31.207 --> 00:00:33.043
if they're still gonna
make me wear a mask?

00:00:33.043 --> 00:00:34.544
MAN #6: Bill Gates is trying
to kill us.

00:00:34.544 --> 00:00:35.945
WOMAN: This is not
communist China.

00:00:35.945 --> 00:00:37.714
This is not Cuba.
This is America.

00:00:37.714 --> 00:00:39.416
MAN #7: Here I am recovering.

00:00:39.416 --> 00:00:41.451
Am I going to get a vaccine?
No.

00:01:19.956 --> 00:01:21.224
WOLYNN: I have a lot of patients

00:01:21.224 --> 00:01:23.193
that may be hesitant
about vaccines,

00:01:23.193 --> 00:01:26.229
but when the COVID-19
pandemic hit,

00:01:26.229 --> 00:01:29.165
it brings reality
and smacks you in the face.

00:01:29.165 --> 00:01:32.635
[ Chanting indistinctly ]

00:01:32.635 --> 00:01:35.238
Sadly, the anti-vaccine
community

00:01:35.238 --> 00:01:37.574
started to co-opt the pandemic

00:01:37.574 --> 00:01:40.677
and start spinning conspiracies
on a daily basis.

00:01:40.677 --> 00:01:43.480
[ Yelling indistinctly ]

00:01:45.448 --> 00:01:49.119
They have been fighting this
war for more than a decade.

00:01:49.119 --> 00:01:50.520
...original sin.

00:01:50.520 --> 00:01:52.889
ROOSE: There are established
groups with established leaders.

00:01:52.889 --> 00:01:55.759
There are established tactics
and strategies.

00:01:57.460 --> 00:01:59.996
And for them, COVID-19
has been the thing

00:01:59.996 --> 00:02:01.664
that they've been
practicing for --

00:02:01.664 --> 00:02:06.302
is a national conversation
about vaccine safety.

00:02:06.302 --> 00:02:08.638
[ Chanting indistinctly ]

00:02:11.374 --> 00:02:13.877
I got the worst horror stories.

00:02:13.877 --> 00:02:18.314
Kids going blind
or intellectually challenged.

00:02:18.314 --> 00:02:21.151
What if I vaccinated
my daughter Katie

00:02:21.151 --> 00:02:24.454
or my son Gabe
and something happened to them?

00:02:24.454 --> 00:02:26.089
And could I live with that?

00:02:28.892 --> 00:02:31.361
GENTRY: People who don't
vaccinate love their children

00:02:31.361 --> 00:02:34.998
just as much as people
who do vaccinate.

00:02:34.998 --> 00:02:37.734
Parents who are becoming
more informed,

00:02:37.734 --> 00:02:42.038
us pesky millennials, want to
make a decision for ourselves,

00:02:42.038 --> 00:02:45.308
and now we're having to go up
against this medical system

00:02:45.308 --> 00:02:47.777
that is used
to just using authority,

00:02:47.777 --> 00:02:50.580
and we're not accepting that.

00:02:50.580 --> 00:02:53.950
GORDON: I think that the parents
should have a vote.

00:02:53.950 --> 00:02:55.819
Perhaps the vote.

00:02:55.819 --> 00:02:59.689
Don't tell me
how to treat your child.

00:02:59.689 --> 00:03:02.525
That's not the government's job.

00:03:04.527 --> 00:03:05.962
McFARLAND: There you go, baby.

00:03:05.962 --> 00:03:08.965
Do you want me to say, "Oh,
it's okay to delay your shot?

00:03:08.965 --> 00:03:12.068
Oh, it's okay to take that risk,
your kid getting

00:03:12.068 --> 00:03:15.405
one of these preventable types
of bacterial disease?"

00:03:15.405 --> 00:03:18.274
No, I don't think
that that's a good idea.

00:03:22.612 --> 00:03:24.614
WILLIAMS: A major concern

00:03:24.614 --> 00:03:28.451
is the hindrance
to routine childhood vaccines.

00:03:28.451 --> 00:03:33.289
If a coronavirus vaccine
creates fear of all vaccines,

00:03:33.289 --> 00:03:35.725
then we could easily
see a resurgence

00:03:35.725 --> 00:03:38.094
of these childhood diseases.

00:03:39.829 --> 00:03:41.831
OFFIT: Could polio come back
into this country?

00:03:41.831 --> 00:03:43.767
Do I think people
who are shedding polio virus

00:03:43.767 --> 00:03:45.735
could walk
into Los Angeles airport

00:03:45.735 --> 00:03:48.304
or LaGuardia airport
in New York? Yes.

00:03:48.304 --> 00:03:50.507
Do I think that could happen
with diphtheria? Sure.

00:03:50.507 --> 00:03:51.908
Do I think that it could happen

00:03:51.908 --> 00:03:54.511
with other rare,
contagious diseases? Sure.

00:03:54.511 --> 00:03:56.813
These bacteria and viruses
are out there.

00:03:56.813 --> 00:03:59.182
Let your guard down,
and they'll come back.

00:03:59.182 --> 00:04:00.984
You should tell the truth
in this film.

00:04:00.984 --> 00:04:03.420
See if any of those guys
that you're talking to

00:04:03.420 --> 00:04:06.189
can defend themselves
against what I just told you?

00:04:40.323 --> 00:04:43.493
DERMODY: There is no guilt like
the guilt of a mother.

00:04:43.493 --> 00:04:46.596
The mother feels
that every untoward event,

00:04:46.596 --> 00:04:48.264
whether it's a stubbed toe

00:04:48.264 --> 00:04:52.268
or difficulty acquiring math
concepts in the third grade,

00:04:52.268 --> 00:04:56.172
has to, in some way,
lead back to a deficiency

00:04:56.172 --> 00:04:58.742
in the child rearing
by that mother.

00:04:58.742 --> 00:05:01.277
Just the idea of vaccines
seems totally crazy.

00:05:01.277 --> 00:05:03.480
I have three kids.
I take them to get vaccines

00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.016
and it's like, "You're going
to put that needle into my,

00:05:06.016 --> 00:05:08.018
like, sweet, little baby
who's perfectly healthy

00:05:08.018 --> 00:05:10.286
and you're going to shoot him
with part of the disease

00:05:10.286 --> 00:05:13.656
that we're hoping
that he won't get?"

00:05:13.656 --> 00:05:16.893
That is curious.
That's confusing.

00:05:16.893 --> 00:05:18.762
And to be vaccine hesitant,

00:05:18.762 --> 00:05:22.332
I think every parent
has felt a jolt of that.

00:05:22.332 --> 00:05:26.369
Natural immunity
sounded really good.

00:05:26.369 --> 00:05:27.804
Why are we injecting things

00:05:27.804 --> 00:05:30.106
into our healthy,
beautiful, perfect babies

00:05:30.106 --> 00:05:32.909
that have just come
out of our bodies?

00:05:32.909 --> 00:05:34.577
If we say you want to do
what's natural

00:05:34.577 --> 00:05:36.246
for your baby, right?

00:05:36.246 --> 00:05:40.250
Well, how is injecting
these mysterious chemicals --

00:05:40.250 --> 00:05:43.253
How is that natural?

00:05:43.253 --> 00:05:45.889
Disease absolutely is natural.

00:05:45.889 --> 00:05:48.992
In fact,
during the pre-antibiotic era,

00:05:48.992 --> 00:05:52.128
it was natural
that people would die

00:05:52.128 --> 00:05:55.031
as a consequence
of those natural processes.

00:06:03.506 --> 00:06:07.043
Back in the earlier part
of last century,

00:06:07.043 --> 00:06:10.880
we were plagued
with infectious diseases.

00:06:10.880 --> 00:06:15.418
And when the first vaccine
against polio came along,

00:06:15.418 --> 00:06:18.021
there was a huge
lifting of fear.

00:06:18.021 --> 00:06:21.358
The whole country
had been behind that program,

00:06:21.358 --> 00:06:23.893
had contributed
to the March of Dimes.

00:06:23.893 --> 00:06:27.130
This was something
everyone wanted.

00:06:28.631 --> 00:06:31.301
DERMODY: I was born in the year
of the release

00:06:31.301 --> 00:06:34.537
of the Salk vaccine -- 1955.

00:06:34.537 --> 00:06:36.973
And of course,
during that decade,

00:06:36.973 --> 00:06:40.243
we saw epidemics
of poliomyelitis

00:06:40.243 --> 00:06:44.647
that killed thousands
and crippled tens of thousands.

00:06:45.515 --> 00:06:49.185
Nobody can share with you
the experience of a child

00:06:49.185 --> 00:06:51.121
from a family
in the neighborhood

00:06:51.121 --> 00:06:54.391
who was a star athlete
and now cannot walk.

00:06:54.391 --> 00:06:56.860
Nobody can share that story
because it's a story

00:06:56.860 --> 00:07:00.663
that doesn't occur
in our country any longer.

00:07:00.663 --> 00:07:04.567
CAPLAN: 1957, I was
probably age 6.

00:07:04.567 --> 00:07:07.904
I was one of the last kids
to get polio

00:07:07.904 --> 00:07:11.808
before they really swept through
with vaccination.

00:07:11.808 --> 00:07:16.513
So that had a very searing
impact because it told me,

00:07:16.513 --> 00:07:18.048
if you're anti-vaccination,

00:07:18.048 --> 00:07:21.985
if you think that
it's too dangerous to vaccinate,

00:07:21.985 --> 00:07:24.487
you have no idea what it means
to live through

00:07:24.487 --> 00:07:29.959
a true, horrific pandemic
for children.

00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:31.895
Mother Nature has been
trying to kill us

00:07:31.895 --> 00:07:34.064
ever since we crawled
out of the ocean onto land.

00:07:34.064 --> 00:07:36.266
I mean, the only reason
that we live 30 years longer now

00:07:36.266 --> 00:07:37.567
than we did 100 years ago

00:07:37.567 --> 00:07:42.138
is we have fought back
actively and hard.

00:07:42.138 --> 00:07:44.774
We eliminated smallpox --
a disease that's probably killed

00:07:44.774 --> 00:07:47.844
500 million people
in the world's history.

00:07:47.844 --> 00:07:51.014
Whooping cough would kill
8,000 children a year.

00:07:51.014 --> 00:07:55.018
Rubella or German measles would
cause 20,000 to 25,000 cases

00:07:55.018 --> 00:07:57.620
of birth defects every year.

00:07:57.620 --> 00:08:01.191
Pneumococcus would cause tens of
thousands of cases of pneumonia,

00:08:01.191 --> 00:08:03.426
meningitis,
bloodstream infection.

00:08:03.426 --> 00:08:06.563
So vaccines have saved
their lives

00:08:06.563 --> 00:08:08.531
and have allowed us
to live longer.

00:08:08.531 --> 00:08:11.801
The only reason, frankly,
that we now question them is

00:08:11.801 --> 00:08:13.136
because at some level,

00:08:13.136 --> 00:08:16.473
vaccines have been a victim
of their own success.

00:08:16.473 --> 00:08:19.442
DERMODY: Just as you had
families line up to receive

00:08:19.442 --> 00:08:23.546
Jonas Salk's vaccine
in areas of Central Africa,

00:08:23.546 --> 00:08:26.282
people are lining up
for experimental vaccines

00:08:26.282 --> 00:08:28.952
against Ebola
because between 10% and 40%

00:08:28.952 --> 00:08:31.388
of people with the Ebola virus
are gonna die.

00:08:32.956 --> 00:08:34.491
McFARLAND: Until
this pandemic happened,

00:08:34.491 --> 00:08:37.894
most Americans don't have
that level of experience

00:08:37.894 --> 00:08:40.230
with lots of people dying.

00:08:40.230 --> 00:08:43.333
In Africa, they're not gonna
hesitate about that

00:08:43.333 --> 00:08:44.734
because they know what death is.

00:08:44.734 --> 00:08:48.238
They see death
knocking on the door too often.

00:08:48.238 --> 00:08:50.473
You can put those
who are hesitant

00:08:50.473 --> 00:08:52.142
to get vaccines
into two groups.

00:08:52.142 --> 00:08:54.277
I think one I would call
vaccine-hesitant parents,

00:08:54.277 --> 00:08:56.112
which is to say
they smell the smoke.

00:08:56.112 --> 00:08:58.014
They want to know
whether there's any fire there

00:08:58.014 --> 00:09:00.817
and you can convince them
to vaccinate their children.

00:09:00.817 --> 00:09:02.185
You find out
what their issue is,

00:09:02.185 --> 00:09:03.920
and then in a compassionate
and passionate

00:09:03.920 --> 00:09:05.955
and compelling way,
try and frame the science

00:09:05.955 --> 00:09:09.526
so that it's understandable
and hopefully calms their fears.

00:09:09.526 --> 00:09:11.194
The second group --
and I think it's much smaller,

00:09:11.194 --> 00:09:12.562
much, much smaller component --

00:09:12.562 --> 00:09:14.998
is what I would call
an anti-vaccine activist,

00:09:14.998 --> 00:09:16.466
which is to say
conspiracy theorists

00:09:16.466 --> 00:09:18.068
who just believe
that there are forces out there

00:09:18.068 --> 00:09:19.969
that mean to do them harm.

00:09:19.969 --> 00:09:24.908
And they're not going to believe
anything that you say.

00:09:24.908 --> 00:09:27.610
I don't think they're --
they're -- they're lying.

00:09:27.610 --> 00:09:28.945
I think that they believe

00:09:28.945 --> 00:09:31.815
that their child was
permanently harmed by a vaccine.

00:09:46.062 --> 00:09:48.932
I can't imagine the grief
that a mother goes through.

00:09:48.932 --> 00:09:51.368
And I imagine that
there are lots of ways

00:09:51.368 --> 00:09:54.571
that that grief can play out,
right?

00:09:54.571 --> 00:09:58.408
And blaming yourself
or blaming someone else.

00:09:58.408 --> 00:10:01.678
GENTRY: I know a lot of people
who feel that their children

00:10:01.678 --> 00:10:03.279
were vaccine-injured.

00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:05.682
So it's more than believable

00:10:05.682 --> 00:10:09.219
that a parent would
really dig their heels in

00:10:09.219 --> 00:10:11.755
because they would have to admit
to being wrong

00:10:11.755 --> 00:10:14.190
and potentially have put
their children,

00:10:14.190 --> 00:10:16.426
who I absolutely believe
that they love,

00:10:16.426 --> 00:10:18.728
in very real danger.

00:10:21.064 --> 00:10:26.703
We as humans are wired
for threat, for risk.

00:10:29.806 --> 00:10:31.041
It's how we've survived.

00:10:31.041 --> 00:10:33.910
It's how we've thrived
as a species.

00:10:38.181 --> 00:10:40.183
So for a parent to be concerned

00:10:40.183 --> 00:10:43.486
because they're seeing this pop
up all over the Internet,

00:10:43.486 --> 00:10:46.856
I don't fault them
for asking questions.

00:10:46.856 --> 00:10:49.092
CAPLAN: One of the interesting
developments

00:10:49.092 --> 00:10:50.727
in watching social media

00:10:50.727 --> 00:10:54.431
is we're losing that
to the anti-vaccine side,

00:10:54.431 --> 00:10:57.834
which makes a point
of handling those outlets

00:10:57.834 --> 00:11:00.337
and using them
to their advantage.

00:11:11.348 --> 00:11:15.418
PAN: Unfortunately, the Internet
and more so, social media

00:11:15.418 --> 00:11:19.689
has given a platform
to misinformation about vaccines

00:11:19.689 --> 00:11:21.825
and the diseases they prevent.

00:11:21.825 --> 00:11:23.493
Many of the leaders
of the movement

00:11:23.493 --> 00:11:25.195
profit from the movement itself,

00:11:25.195 --> 00:11:27.297
so it's a business model
for them.

00:11:27.297 --> 00:11:31.368
And of course, the algorithms
drive people to the extremes.

00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:39.576
McFARLAND:
There's so much noise.

00:11:39.576 --> 00:11:43.913
You have to ask the question,
"What is the denominator?"

00:11:43.913 --> 00:11:47.751
There's that emotional part
that influences our decisions.

00:11:47.751 --> 00:11:53.590
So when I look at those sites
and I get scared.

00:11:53.590 --> 00:11:56.126
But it is increasingly clear
to this reporter...

00:11:56.126 --> 00:11:59.262
ROOSE: There was a time
where there were

00:11:59.262 --> 00:12:01.064
established gatekeepers

00:12:01.064 --> 00:12:04.601
that most people
turned to for information.

00:12:04.601 --> 00:12:07.671
And now we're sort of all
in this era where we are

00:12:07.671 --> 00:12:09.572
trying to assemble our own truth

00:12:09.572 --> 00:12:12.175
rather than having it
handed to us.

00:12:12.175 --> 00:12:13.643
WOLYNN: It's the world
we live in, right?

00:12:13.643 --> 00:12:15.645
I mean, everybody has a screen
in front of them.

00:12:15.645 --> 00:12:20.050
So as billions and billions of
conversations now become online,

00:12:20.050 --> 00:12:21.751
they start getting funneled

00:12:21.751 --> 00:12:25.722
into relatively few,
precious communication tubes --

00:12:25.722 --> 00:12:28.224
Google, YouTube, Facebook.

00:12:28.224 --> 00:12:30.427
And then they become
easily manipulated.

00:12:30.427 --> 00:12:32.429
Let's monetize it
because it's clickbait

00:12:32.429 --> 00:12:34.597
by they themselves
serving up disinformation

00:12:34.597 --> 00:12:38.301
preferentially to your searches.

00:12:38.301 --> 00:12:41.237
ROOSE: These
anti-vaccine activists

00:12:41.237 --> 00:12:44.274
would go into a group
for new parents

00:12:44.274 --> 00:12:47.277
or they would go into a group
of Tea Party Patriots

00:12:47.277 --> 00:12:48.578
or a QAnon group, and they would

00:12:48.578 --> 00:12:50.613
start seeding their messaging
in there,

00:12:50.613 --> 00:12:53.750
each time, sort of calibrating
the message to the community

00:12:53.750 --> 00:12:55.418
they were trying to reach.

00:12:59.689 --> 00:13:01.925
SUN: The anti-vaxxers,
they're able to make these

00:13:01.925 --> 00:13:05.895
really strong, emotional appeals

00:13:05.895 --> 00:13:09.399
and it is very hard
to counter that.

00:13:10.700 --> 00:13:14.738
Once a really scary thought
takes hold,

00:13:14.738 --> 00:13:17.407
it is really hard
to dislodge it.

00:13:27.951 --> 00:13:30.320
WOLYNN: The anti-vaccine camp --

00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:32.389
They come from
two schools of thought.

00:13:32.389 --> 00:13:34.958
Liberty or purity, right?

00:13:34.958 --> 00:13:37.427
Liberty -- "You can't tell me
what to do with my body

00:13:37.427 --> 00:13:38.461
or my child's body."

00:13:38.461 --> 00:13:40.530
Or purity -- "I don't want

00:13:40.530 --> 00:13:45.235
toxins and chemicals
injected into my child."

00:13:45.235 --> 00:13:49.139
I'm on the side of parents
taking care of their children

00:13:49.139 --> 00:13:53.009
and not having the government
dictate how you should

00:13:53.009 --> 00:13:55.412
raise your children.

00:13:55.412 --> 00:13:59.015
How dare you say that I don't
know what's best for my kids.

00:13:59.015 --> 00:14:01.918
I love the bird.

00:14:01.918 --> 00:14:04.654
GENTRY: In my journey
to being a birth worker,

00:14:04.654 --> 00:14:06.823
many of us in this community

00:14:06.823 --> 00:14:09.759
fell more toward
the naturalist side

00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.763
that giving a vaccine
is unnatural.

00:14:13.763 --> 00:14:17.667
When you get these
convincing memes and articles,

00:14:17.667 --> 00:14:19.336
it was confirmation bias

00:14:19.336 --> 00:14:21.838
that the medical community
is not trustworthy

00:14:21.838 --> 00:14:25.075
and we're just gonna throw
the baby out with the bath water

00:14:25.075 --> 00:14:26.976
and throw out vaccines
along with the other things

00:14:26.976 --> 00:14:29.579
that we were pushing against.

00:14:29.579 --> 00:14:31.581
ROOSE: And then there's
this conspiracy branch.

00:14:31.581 --> 00:14:33.583
And for these people,
the story of vaccines

00:14:33.583 --> 00:14:37.053
is about these global elites
who are trying to control

00:14:37.053 --> 00:14:40.457
the population
through things like microchips,

00:14:40.457 --> 00:14:42.792
through things
like 5G connectivity,

00:14:42.792 --> 00:14:46.963
and now they say
through vaccines.

00:14:46.963 --> 00:14:51.801
I think long ago, there were
families that figured out a way

00:14:51.801 --> 00:14:54.971
to control the United States.

00:14:56.306 --> 00:14:59.509
A section of Jews.

00:14:59.509 --> 00:15:03.747
Maybe they would
fall more into, like, cabal.

00:15:03.747 --> 00:15:06.182
I don't think all Jews.

00:15:06.182 --> 00:15:10.453
I just hope that
the people band together

00:15:10.453 --> 00:15:12.655
and take our freedoms back,

00:15:12.655 --> 00:15:15.091
because that's, to me,
what's at stake here.

00:15:15.091 --> 00:15:18.461
Way more than vaccinations
or viruses or politics.

00:15:18.461 --> 00:15:21.898
It's about freedom
and freedom of choice.

00:15:21.898 --> 00:15:25.035
[ Chanting indistinctly ]

00:15:25.035 --> 00:15:26.403
CAPLAN: The anti-vaccine
movement --

00:15:26.403 --> 00:15:28.438
They are a movement
and you belong to a movement.

00:15:28.438 --> 00:15:31.207
And it's good to build up
a kind of values,

00:15:31.207 --> 00:15:32.909
momentum that makes you feel

00:15:32.909 --> 00:15:35.412
like you belong
to something important.

00:15:35.412 --> 00:15:37.147
And there is a sense that,

00:15:37.147 --> 00:15:39.182
you know,
you're the persecuted minority.

00:15:39.182 --> 00:15:42.252
You're the group that really
isn't being listened to,

00:15:42.252 --> 00:15:44.888
despite the value
of your message.

00:15:44.888 --> 00:15:48.291
A lot of family members
believed this way.

00:15:48.291 --> 00:15:52.328
So just the solid numbers of,

00:15:52.328 --> 00:15:55.131
"Oh, you guys are doing
the right thing."

00:15:55.131 --> 00:15:56.833
It's very culty, you know.

00:15:56.833 --> 00:16:00.170
By someone telling you
you're doing the right thing,

00:16:00.170 --> 00:16:03.239
we felt like we were doing
the right thing.

00:16:03.239 --> 00:16:06.142
And so we knew
and others didn't know.

00:16:06.142 --> 00:16:08.578
And aren't we smart?

00:16:08.578 --> 00:16:10.613
I think for one side
of that -- that coin,

00:16:10.613 --> 00:16:12.415
you have to point out
misinformed people

00:16:12.415 --> 00:16:16.786
as empathetic and victims
of just misinformation.

00:16:16.786 --> 00:16:18.755
So my mom -- her love, affection
and care as a mother

00:16:18.755 --> 00:16:21.891
was really weaponized.

00:16:21.891 --> 00:16:24.928
I grew up understanding
that we were not vaccinated.

00:16:24.928 --> 00:16:26.896
The ideas presented were
the vaccines are very dangerous.

00:16:26.896 --> 00:16:29.366
They can cause autism,
they can cause brain damage.

00:16:29.366 --> 00:16:31.735
But later on,
once I became 13, 14, 15,

00:16:31.735 --> 00:16:33.169
and I saw online

00:16:33.169 --> 00:16:35.338
that there were a lot of people
disagreed with my mom,

00:16:35.338 --> 00:16:37.741
those questions of seeing
a different perspective

00:16:37.741 --> 00:16:40.944
really sort of slowly build
towards a distrust

00:16:40.944 --> 00:16:42.612
in what my mom was saying.

00:16:42.612 --> 00:16:44.647
I just spoke to my mother.

00:16:44.647 --> 00:16:46.383
"These are the reasons
I need to get my vaccines.

00:16:46.383 --> 00:16:48.885
I don't think you're correct
with the information you have.

00:16:48.885 --> 00:16:50.653
And the medical
community disagrees"

00:16:50.653 --> 00:16:52.422
and went from there
to the public health department

00:16:52.422 --> 00:16:53.957
and got immunizations.

00:16:53.957 --> 00:16:55.625
I think we're compelled
by anecdotes.

00:16:55.625 --> 00:16:57.027
I think that it's hard

00:16:57.027 --> 00:16:59.929
to argue against anecdote
with statistics.

00:16:59.929 --> 00:17:01.631
So, for example,
there are people

00:17:01.631 --> 00:17:03.833
who have reported
that a child got a vaccine

00:17:03.833 --> 00:17:05.802
and turned into
the Incredible Hulk.

00:17:05.802 --> 00:17:08.071
[ Yells ]

00:17:08.071 --> 00:17:09.706
Anybody can report anything.

00:17:09.706 --> 00:17:11.641
So that's what you're always
arguing against. It's hard.

00:17:11.641 --> 00:17:13.843
I mean, it's hard
to make statistics

00:17:13.843 --> 00:17:16.680
compelling and passionate
and compassionate and fun

00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:19.549
-and convincing...
-[ Roars ]

00:17:19.549 --> 00:17:20.717
...when people believe

00:17:20.717 --> 00:17:22.719
that their coincidental
experiences

00:17:22.719 --> 00:17:24.554
are causal experience.

00:17:24.554 --> 00:17:26.856
A conspiracy needs
a good enemy.

00:17:26.856 --> 00:17:29.325
Big Pharma.
It sounds really scary.

00:17:29.325 --> 00:17:32.729
However, it's not true.

00:17:32.729 --> 00:17:34.064
If they didn't make them
tomorrow,

00:17:34.064 --> 00:17:36.866
I'm sure that they would
all be just fine.

00:17:36.866 --> 00:17:38.635
If you were looking to make
a lot of money

00:17:38.635 --> 00:17:40.203
and make a lot of profit,

00:17:40.203 --> 00:17:43.173
vaccines would be
the last place you would look.

00:17:43.173 --> 00:17:47.043
You would look to Viagra
or drugs for chronic conditions

00:17:47.043 --> 00:17:49.112
like high blood pressure
and diabetes.

00:17:49.112 --> 00:17:51.681
WOMAN: Ask your doctor
about Trulicity.

00:17:51.681 --> 00:17:52.816
If I only had to trust

00:17:52.816 --> 00:17:54.484
pharmaceutical companies
about vaccines,

00:17:54.484 --> 00:17:59.989
I'd be really worried because
they're for-profit companies.

00:17:59.989 --> 00:18:02.959
But we have
an extensive practice

00:18:02.959 --> 00:18:04.828
of accountability
in the United States

00:18:04.828 --> 00:18:08.264
in a way that we don't have
for any other product.

00:18:08.264 --> 00:18:11.434
Similar or the same vaccines
are used in other countries

00:18:11.434 --> 00:18:15.438
that have their own
monitoring system.

00:18:15.438 --> 00:18:19.342
There's just no conceivable way
that a serious problem

00:18:19.342 --> 00:18:21.745
will get by
that level of monitoring,

00:18:21.745 --> 00:18:23.813
and it hasn't.

00:18:23.813 --> 00:18:27.183
WOLYNN: I've had people say that
I'm in the pocket of Big Pharma.

00:18:27.183 --> 00:18:31.521
"Oh, you buy their vaccines.
You make a profit off of it."

00:18:31.521 --> 00:18:35.558
The truth is, for vaccines,
the profit margin is paper thin.

00:18:35.558 --> 00:18:38.428
Yeah.
I don't need any conspiracy

00:18:38.428 --> 00:18:40.897
to create job security
for infectious diseases.

00:18:40.897 --> 00:18:43.933
Nature and the world
create that just fine.

00:18:43.933 --> 00:18:46.736
Yeah. I don't think
any scientist goes into the lab

00:18:46.736 --> 00:18:50.473
thinking, "This is my way
to sort of get rich."

00:18:50.473 --> 00:18:52.275
I mean, I was fortunate
to work with the team

00:18:52.275 --> 00:18:54.010
at Children's Hospital
Philadelphia

00:18:54.010 --> 00:18:56.012
that created
the rotavirus vaccine.

00:18:56.012 --> 00:18:57.313
Rotavirus in this country --

00:18:57.313 --> 00:18:59.749
it would cause
75,000 hospital admissions

00:18:59.749 --> 00:19:02.786
due to dehydration
and 60 deaths in the world.

00:19:02.786 --> 00:19:05.355
It causes 2,000 children
to die a day.

00:19:05.355 --> 00:19:06.823
The fact that we made
that vaccine

00:19:06.823 --> 00:19:08.191
is the professional
accomplishment

00:19:08.191 --> 00:19:10.627
of which I am most proud.

00:19:10.627 --> 00:19:12.228
It was a 25-year effort

00:19:12.228 --> 00:19:14.364
from which to some extent
I financially benefited,

00:19:14.364 --> 00:19:16.466
but I didn't spend
seven days a week

00:19:16.466 --> 00:19:18.601
in a windowless room
inoculating mice,

00:19:18.601 --> 00:19:19.969
figuring, "If I can
just figure out

00:19:19.969 --> 00:19:22.205
which of these
two viral surface proteins

00:19:22.205 --> 00:19:23.673
evoke neutralizing antibodies,

00:19:23.673 --> 00:19:25.675
I can be rich beyond
my wildest dreams."

00:19:25.675 --> 00:19:28.945
I don't think any reasonable
person does that.

00:19:28.945 --> 00:19:33.016
But I think we've reached an
unfortunate time in our society

00:19:33.016 --> 00:19:35.852
where we vilify expertise
and anybody

00:19:35.852 --> 00:19:38.154
who has any connection
to something that's commercial,

00:19:38.154 --> 00:19:41.157
which is sad because
when vaccines get developed,

00:19:41.157 --> 00:19:44.627
only pharmaceutical companies
have the resources and expertise

00:19:44.627 --> 00:19:46.229
to do the development.

00:19:52.268 --> 00:19:56.272
Anti-vaccination is not
a contemporary movement.

00:19:56.272 --> 00:20:00.043
It's been around a very,
very long time

00:20:00.043 --> 00:20:05.515
and partly for reasons that
have to do with cruder science.

00:20:05.515 --> 00:20:07.884
One of the early mandates
in America

00:20:07.884 --> 00:20:11.788
was George Washington
trying to control smallpox

00:20:11.788 --> 00:20:14.724
in the Continental Army
and saying,

00:20:14.724 --> 00:20:17.327
"You are all gonna be
vaccinated."

00:20:17.327 --> 00:20:19.629
Some people actually said,
"If you're giving me cowpox,

00:20:19.629 --> 00:20:22.599
you're gonna turn me
into a cow."

00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:26.636
It got associated very early
with resistance

00:20:26.636 --> 00:20:30.807
to government control
and personal choice.

00:20:30.807 --> 00:20:34.411
SUN: I think that vaccine
hesitancy or reluctance

00:20:34.411 --> 00:20:37.347
has always been there.

00:20:37.347 --> 00:20:41.051
But the modern
anti-vaccine movement

00:20:41.051 --> 00:20:44.621
usually goes back to
Andrew Wakefield in the 1990s.

00:20:48.692 --> 00:20:51.661
PAN: Andrew Wakefield,
who lost his license,

00:20:51.661 --> 00:20:54.864
was paid over half a million
dollars to fake a study

00:20:54.864 --> 00:20:57.934
and then raised
more money to sell

00:20:57.934 --> 00:20:59.736
his own version
of the measles vaccine

00:20:59.736 --> 00:21:02.105
is doing quite handsomely.

00:21:02.105 --> 00:21:05.508
He's giving lectures to people,
spreading misinformation.

00:21:05.508 --> 00:21:08.178
In fact, he seemed to be
at least partially responsible

00:21:08.178 --> 00:21:13.450
for the outbreak in Minnesota
in the Somali community.

00:21:13.450 --> 00:21:16.953
OFFIT: In 1998, Andrew Wakefield
and 12 other co-workers

00:21:16.953 --> 00:21:19.956
published a paper in
a well-respected medical journal

00:21:19.956 --> 00:21:21.424
called "The Lancet,"

00:21:21.424 --> 00:21:23.626
and he made
the following arguments

00:21:23.626 --> 00:21:26.963
that when children got the
measles, mumps, rubella vaccine,

00:21:26.963 --> 00:21:29.432
they could get autism
for this reason --

00:21:29.432 --> 00:21:32.068
Because the vaccine was given
in combination,

00:21:32.068 --> 00:21:35.505
that that somehow weakened
the immune system.

00:21:35.505 --> 00:21:39.442
He just proposed a series
of sort of wild speculations

00:21:39.442 --> 00:21:42.612
for which he had no evidence.

00:21:44.214 --> 00:21:46.349
This was a testable hypothesis.

00:21:46.349 --> 00:21:49.519
It's been tested now
in 18 different studies

00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:51.821
in seven different countries,
on three different continents,

00:21:51.821 --> 00:21:53.390
involving hundreds
of thousands of children

00:21:53.390 --> 00:21:55.825
who either did
or didn't get that vaccine.

00:21:55.825 --> 00:21:57.327
And what you found is that

00:21:57.327 --> 00:21:59.329
there is no difference
in the incidence of autism

00:21:59.329 --> 00:22:01.664
between those who did
or didn't get the vaccine.

00:22:01.664 --> 00:22:03.333
And so the question
has been answered.

00:22:03.333 --> 00:22:06.703
And most parents of children
with autism believe that.

00:22:06.703 --> 00:22:08.004
Breaking news tonight.

00:22:08.004 --> 00:22:10.140
Just hours ago, the British
medical journal "BMJ"

00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:13.476
did something extremely rare
for a scientific journal.

00:22:13.476 --> 00:22:15.512
It accused a researcher,
Andrew Wakefield,

00:22:15.512 --> 00:22:17.147
of outright fraud.

00:22:17.147 --> 00:22:20.950
If you read the record
that I have set out in the book,

00:22:20.950 --> 00:22:22.686
you will see the truth.

00:22:22.686 --> 00:22:24.888
But, sir, if you're lying,
then your book is also a lie.

00:22:24.888 --> 00:22:26.890
If your study is a lie,
your book is a lie.

00:22:26.890 --> 00:22:29.693
He had already received
$800,000 or $1,000,000

00:22:29.693 --> 00:22:30.794
to try and find a link.

00:22:30.794 --> 00:22:32.195
Five years before,

00:22:32.195 --> 00:22:34.030
he was trying to link
vaccines to Crohn's disease.

00:22:34.030 --> 00:22:36.533
I mean, there was all this
fraudulent science behind it.

00:22:36.533 --> 00:22:38.435
So when people start pointing
to, you know,

00:22:38.435 --> 00:22:39.869
cherry picking
a little bit of science

00:22:39.869 --> 00:22:42.672
and a lot of disinformation,
trying to build a case,

00:22:42.672 --> 00:22:44.808
I say,
"Go back to the scientists

00:22:44.808 --> 00:22:48.111
and the people that really have
true data and statistics

00:22:48.111 --> 00:22:49.446
to guide what we do."

00:22:49.446 --> 00:22:53.383
The allegations against me
and against my colleagues

00:22:53.383 --> 00:22:56.820
are both unfounded and unjust.

00:22:56.820 --> 00:22:59.823
I repeat, unfounded and unjust.

00:22:59.823 --> 00:23:01.758
All the evidence to date
points to the notion

00:23:01.758 --> 00:23:04.260
that autism
is a genetic disorder

00:23:04.260 --> 00:23:05.829
and that if you're autistic
at 5,

00:23:05.829 --> 00:23:08.331
you were autistic at 2, you were
autistic when you're born.

00:23:08.331 --> 00:23:11.468
But it's not unusual
when a disease doesn't have

00:23:11.468 --> 00:23:14.337
an obvious cause or a cure
that it could be subject

00:23:14.337 --> 00:23:16.773
to a lot of charlatan-ism
and quackery.

00:23:16.773 --> 00:23:18.842
And that's true with a disease
like autism,

00:23:18.842 --> 00:23:20.877
where you see people
that subject themselves

00:23:20.877 --> 00:23:24.447
to elimination diets
or to baths and magnetic clay

00:23:24.447 --> 00:23:27.984
or to stem-cell transplantation
or to chelation therapy,

00:23:27.984 --> 00:23:30.620
all of which, you know, doctors
are perfectly willing to do

00:23:30.620 --> 00:23:33.456
and to be paid for out
of pocket, taking advantage,

00:23:33.456 --> 00:23:35.925
I think, of the parents'
desperate desire

00:23:35.925 --> 00:23:39.496
to do something
to make their child better.

00:23:39.496 --> 00:23:42.132
When I think of my sons --

00:23:42.132 --> 00:23:43.600
I have two sons --

00:23:43.600 --> 00:23:45.468
seeing language develop

00:23:45.468 --> 00:23:48.038
and the ability
to communicate with me

00:23:48.038 --> 00:23:53.710
was one of the most exciting and
wonderful parts of being a mom.

00:23:53.710 --> 00:23:56.346
So when I think of parents
who are not having

00:23:56.346 --> 00:23:58.581
that experience
with their babies,

00:23:58.581 --> 00:24:00.316
you know,
the babies are not talking.

00:24:00.316 --> 00:24:01.785
They don't have eye contact,

00:24:01.785 --> 00:24:03.920
all these
communication problems,

00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:05.955
you know, it's heartbreaking.

00:24:05.955 --> 00:24:11.261
It's such
a life-altering thing

00:24:11.261 --> 00:24:12.896
when you have
a special-needs child.

00:24:12.896 --> 00:24:16.032
It really is.
Just your life is altered.

00:24:16.032 --> 00:24:18.468
And I think parents just need
to have an understanding

00:24:18.468 --> 00:24:19.736
as to why.

00:24:19.736 --> 00:24:21.805
"Why is my child like this?"

00:24:21.805 --> 00:24:23.373
MAN: That was really ridiculous.

00:24:23.373 --> 00:24:27.510
You have this special bond,
and then something

00:24:27.510 --> 00:24:28.812
is not right with them.

00:24:28.812 --> 00:24:34.684
And what's kind of cruel is,
is it really unfolds

00:24:34.684 --> 00:24:37.520
in really the worst possible way

00:24:37.520 --> 00:24:39.789
because it's kind
of a slow burn.

00:24:39.789 --> 00:24:42.258
You know, other kids
are hitting milestones

00:24:42.258 --> 00:24:44.194
and your kid may not be
hitting milestones.

00:24:44.194 --> 00:24:46.196
And then finally
they get the diagnosis.

00:24:46.196 --> 00:24:48.264
And it just is, it's painful.

00:24:48.264 --> 00:24:49.566
MAN: Go get 'em.

00:24:49.566 --> 00:24:53.336
So I can understand
why parents want to know why.

00:24:53.336 --> 00:24:56.172
Like, "Why?
"Why -- Why me? Why us?"

00:24:56.172 --> 00:24:58.808
OFFIT: Autism is typically
first recognized between one

00:24:58.808 --> 00:25:01.011
and two years of age,
and that's around the time

00:25:01.011 --> 00:25:02.679
that you're getting
a number of vaccines.

00:25:02.679 --> 00:25:04.748
So it's very easy
to make that association.

00:25:04.748 --> 00:25:06.916
I mean, you know,
the rooster crows,

00:25:06.916 --> 00:25:09.285
the sun comes up, the rooster
crows, the sun comes up.

00:25:09.285 --> 00:25:11.955
Is the rooster causing
the sun to come up?

00:25:11.955 --> 00:25:13.590
If you don't allow
the rooster to crow,

00:25:13.590 --> 00:25:15.859
will the sun still come up?
Yes.

00:25:15.859 --> 00:25:17.994
If you don't give people
MMR vaccine,

00:25:17.994 --> 00:25:20.096
will they still have
the same incidence of autism?

00:25:20.096 --> 00:25:21.297
Yes.

00:25:21.297 --> 00:25:23.900
We do not know
what causes autism.

00:25:23.900 --> 00:25:26.002
We do not know.

00:25:26.002 --> 00:25:27.771
Now, to make the claim

00:25:27.771 --> 00:25:32.375
that vaccines
may cause autism is false.

00:25:32.375 --> 00:25:36.946
That is a false claim because
that very specific question

00:25:36.946 --> 00:25:40.216
has been answered
through very large,

00:25:40.216 --> 00:25:43.820
carefully conducted studies
of hundreds of thousands

00:25:43.820 --> 00:25:45.588
of children
throughout the world.

00:25:45.588 --> 00:25:50.427
And no link between vaccines
and autism has been established.

00:25:50.427 --> 00:25:51.661
Science isn't politics.

00:25:51.661 --> 00:25:53.663
It's not philosophy,
it's not religion.

00:25:53.663 --> 00:25:54.964
There's not two sides.

00:25:54.964 --> 00:25:57.000
There's really,
as the truth emerges,

00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:59.336
only one side.

00:25:59.336 --> 00:26:00.737
[ Chanting indistinctly ]

00:26:00.737 --> 00:26:03.940
But that story has been
taken hostage by a group

00:26:03.940 --> 00:26:07.010
of people who believe that
vaccines are the cause.

00:26:07.010 --> 00:26:10.413
I think the media allows for
and lawyers enable

00:26:10.413 --> 00:26:13.950
and I think politicians
enable small splinter groups

00:26:13.950 --> 00:26:15.752
to become very powerful

00:26:15.752 --> 00:26:18.488
and the only groups
that you hear from.

00:26:18.488 --> 00:26:20.590
We're two decades down the road

00:26:20.590 --> 00:26:24.461
from when Wakefield
unleashed his conspiracy.

00:26:24.461 --> 00:26:26.262
And even though all the other
scientists on that paper

00:26:26.262 --> 00:26:27.697
said the data wasn't true,

00:26:27.697 --> 00:26:30.033
there have been multiple studies
that have tried to repeat it,

00:26:30.033 --> 00:26:35.372
he lost his license,
he's completely discredited...

00:26:35.372 --> 00:26:37.240
...and two decades later,
people will still say,

00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:39.876
"But what about vaccines
and autism?"

00:26:39.876 --> 00:26:41.311
One other thing.

00:26:41.311 --> 00:26:45.148
There were 13 authors on that
paper and 8 study subjects.

00:26:45.148 --> 00:26:47.183
Just as a tip
to future epidemiologists,

00:26:47.183 --> 00:26:52.389
you should always have more
study subjects than authors.

00:26:52.389 --> 00:26:54.557
Now, one thing happened
that kind of put

00:26:54.557 --> 00:26:56.192
that argument to rest.

00:26:56.192 --> 00:26:58.194
You begin to be able
to diagnose autism

00:26:58.194 --> 00:27:00.397
in a kid
before you vaccinated the kid.

00:27:00.397 --> 00:27:03.800
That's a pretty
solid refutation.

00:27:03.800 --> 00:27:06.803
We will not stop
until this fight is won.

00:27:06.803 --> 00:27:09.906
CAPLAN: But the commitment is
there, and it's hard to go back

00:27:09.906 --> 00:27:13.843
on 30 years of saying,
"The vaccines are bad for you.

00:27:13.843 --> 00:27:15.178
Oh, never mind.

00:27:15.178 --> 00:27:19.149
Maybe I'm responsible
for killing people."

00:27:19.149 --> 00:27:23.586
COVID proves that vaccination
is one of the key tools.

00:27:23.586 --> 00:27:27.090
Again, the evidence is in front
of everybody's faces.

00:27:27.090 --> 00:27:29.959
Then a lot of individuals
that are really big leaders

00:27:29.959 --> 00:27:31.761
in the anti-vax world.

00:27:31.761 --> 00:27:34.764
You can talk about Del Bigtree,
Kennedy Jr.,

00:27:34.764 --> 00:27:36.800
even celebrities like
Robert De Niro

00:27:36.800 --> 00:27:38.234
and Jenny McCarthy.

00:27:38.234 --> 00:27:40.804
And all of them have such a big
sway and influence

00:27:40.804 --> 00:27:44.974
over this world
of the anti-vaccine community.

00:27:44.974 --> 00:27:48.445
KING: Tonight, exclusive
Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy,

00:27:48.445 --> 00:27:50.780
partners in life
and partners in the search

00:27:50.780 --> 00:27:52.449
for answers to autism.

00:27:52.449 --> 00:27:54.851
Isn't the problem here, Jenny,
that people

00:27:54.851 --> 00:27:58.088
are gonna panic
and not vaccine at all?

00:27:58.088 --> 00:28:00.190
Probably.

00:28:00.190 --> 00:28:02.792
But guess what?
It's not my fault.

00:28:02.792 --> 00:28:04.461
The reason why
they're not vaccinating

00:28:04.461 --> 00:28:07.130
is because the vaccines
are not safe.

00:28:07.130 --> 00:28:10.834
ZADROZNY: Jenny McCarthy really
brought us to this moment.

00:28:10.834 --> 00:28:14.371
She was the first
to have a platform

00:28:14.371 --> 00:28:18.575
and say, "My child was hurt
by vaccines,"

00:28:18.575 --> 00:28:21.044
and you don't want to go up
against a mother

00:28:21.044 --> 00:28:22.679
who thinks that her child
was hurt by vaccines.

00:28:22.679 --> 00:28:25.882
Like, who are you? You're
automatically the bad guy.

00:28:25.882 --> 00:28:29.119
What we are saying is that
the number of vaccines given

00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:32.255
and the ingredients,
like the freaking mercury...

00:28:32.255 --> 00:28:35.892
ZADROZNY: Expertise is no match
for a good story

00:28:35.892 --> 00:28:40.330
told by a beautiful,
articulate, blonde bombshell,

00:28:40.330 --> 00:28:42.165
who is giving you this message.

00:28:42.165 --> 00:28:45.735
My science is named Evan,
and he's at home.

00:28:45.735 --> 00:28:47.470
That's my science.

00:28:47.470 --> 00:28:50.440
There were a lot of things that
Oprah Winfrey did

00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:52.742
and brought attention to that
I thought were amazing.

00:28:52.742 --> 00:28:57.847
But she actually lent oxygen
and her power behind

00:28:57.847 --> 00:29:00.517
anti-vaccine moments
and let them run with it.

00:29:00.517 --> 00:29:02.752
ROWLETTE: Jenny McCarthy was
giving medical advice

00:29:02.752 --> 00:29:06.489
and I just took what she said at
face value because

00:29:06.489 --> 00:29:08.992
why else would she
be on Oprah's show?

00:29:08.992 --> 00:29:13.430
And as a result of that,
I'm sure a lot of children died.

00:29:13.430 --> 00:29:15.532
I'm sure I was not the only one
who listened to

00:29:15.532 --> 00:29:18.935
the Hollywood actress try to
push her book on autism.

00:29:18.935 --> 00:29:20.337
Here's one thing, Jenny.

00:29:20.337 --> 00:29:22.372
And you know
I've got an open mind.

00:29:22.372 --> 00:29:24.307
For people to stop
vaccinating --

00:29:24.307 --> 00:29:27.444
Because we'll start seeing kids
die of polio again.

00:29:27.444 --> 00:29:29.746
McCARTHY: Let me tell you this.

00:29:29.746 --> 00:29:32.615
We do not need
that many vaccines.

00:29:32.615 --> 00:29:35.051
WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think
this is a common pitfall.

00:29:35.051 --> 00:29:38.288
The idea that, "Well,
we have to let both sides

00:29:38.288 --> 00:29:39.956
have an equal presentation."

00:29:39.956 --> 00:29:44.060
Look, if we're talking about
matters of opinion or faith,

00:29:44.060 --> 00:29:45.695
I'm all for that.

00:29:45.695 --> 00:29:48.098
But it's a fallacy to say,

00:29:48.098 --> 00:29:51.267
"Well, we're gonna give
equal weight with somebody

00:29:51.267 --> 00:29:54.437
who has no education
or specialization in that area

00:29:54.437 --> 00:30:00.577
and is just talking about
their own feelings."

00:30:07.650 --> 00:30:09.386
ROWLETTE: It was
a Wednesday morning.

00:30:09.386 --> 00:30:10.920
We sent him off to school.

00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.056
And a few hours later,
I received a call

00:30:13.056 --> 00:30:16.426
that he had a 102 temperature,
I believe.

00:30:18.261 --> 00:30:20.430
And we took him in.
The pediatrician looked at him

00:30:20.430 --> 00:30:22.699
and said, "You know what?
It's just the flu.

00:30:22.699 --> 00:30:25.335
He'll be alright.
Take him home, get hydrated."

00:30:25.335 --> 00:30:29.506
And that night,
he went from being really hot

00:30:29.506 --> 00:30:34.944
to having projectile vomiting
to being ice cold.

00:30:34.944 --> 00:30:36.312
And then come 6:00
in the morning

00:30:36.312 --> 00:30:40.250
and an ambulance arrived,
and he had a heart attack

00:30:40.250 --> 00:30:41.551
in the ambulance.

00:30:41.551 --> 00:30:43.186
[ Siren wailing ]

00:30:43.186 --> 00:30:46.456
And he actually flatlined
in the E.R.,

00:30:46.456 --> 00:30:48.058
and that's when he died.

00:31:07.077 --> 00:31:09.546
Every year when they have
the flu vaccine clinics

00:31:09.546 --> 00:31:12.082
near our home,
my kids and I volunteer

00:31:12.082 --> 00:31:13.750
to just kind of herd people
in there

00:31:13.750 --> 00:31:15.518
and we share our story
with them.

00:31:15.518 --> 00:31:17.721
If you were one of those fish,
which one would you be?

00:31:17.721 --> 00:31:19.622
Oftentimes you get push back
and they're just like,

00:31:19.622 --> 00:31:22.892
"No, we're not gonna go do that.
We know what happens."

00:31:22.892 --> 00:31:24.928
My kid was supposed
to graduate this year.

00:31:24.928 --> 00:31:26.763
"He's dead.
You understand that?

00:31:26.763 --> 00:31:27.997
10 years ago, he died.

00:31:27.997 --> 00:31:29.966
But he could have got
a flu vaccine.

00:31:29.966 --> 00:31:32.335
Why don't you prevent that
from happening to you?"

00:31:37.273 --> 00:31:40.810
[ Cheers and applause ]

00:31:40.810 --> 00:31:45.081
Now I want to introduce
Robert Kennedy Jr.

00:31:45.081 --> 00:31:47.450
[ Cheers and applause ]

00:31:47.450 --> 00:31:50.253
There's this kind of
Kafka-esque censorship

00:31:50.253 --> 00:31:54.190
in the news about having
a reasonable debate.

00:31:54.190 --> 00:31:57.694
So they call us anti-vaccine,
they call us hysterical,

00:31:57.694 --> 00:31:59.662
they call us
conspiracy theorists.

00:31:59.662 --> 00:32:01.998
I wouldn't characterize myself
as anti-vaccine.

00:32:01.998 --> 00:32:06.269
That's something that is
a pejorative that other people

00:32:06.269 --> 00:32:10.774
use to characterize me
and, you know,

00:32:10.774 --> 00:32:16.513
the movement as a way
to discredit or to silence us.

00:32:16.513 --> 00:32:19.482
Because, you know,
if you say they're anti-vaccine,

00:32:19.482 --> 00:32:21.685
it sounds like you're crazy.

00:32:21.685 --> 00:32:23.486
And that's a way of masking

00:32:23.486 --> 00:32:26.056
the injuries
that are caused by the vaccine.

00:32:26.056 --> 00:32:29.392
And it's not science,
it's just marketing.

00:32:29.392 --> 00:32:31.661
REPORTER: Some of the more
established names at today's

00:32:31.661 --> 00:32:33.897
rally included
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

00:32:33.897 --> 00:32:35.932
Recently,
some of his family members

00:32:35.932 --> 00:32:39.302
disavowed his views
about vaccines.

00:32:39.302 --> 00:32:42.005
REISS: I think he's a believer,
but I think it's very clear

00:32:42.005 --> 00:32:44.841
that he's willing to lie
for the cause.

00:32:44.841 --> 00:32:48.044
Kennedy is saying
that he's pro-vaccine

00:32:48.044 --> 00:32:49.879
as long as
it's a mythical vaccine

00:32:49.879 --> 00:32:51.681
that isn't currently
in existence

00:32:51.681 --> 00:32:55.452
and has no risks
and 100