A sweeping look at the big political events of recent years in South Africa…
How to Steal a Country
- Description
- Reviews
- Citation
- Cataloging
- Transcript
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“It's been almost 10 years of unabated looting.” — Investigative journalist Thanduxolo Jika
HOW TO STEAL A COUNTRY opens like a classic thriller, with investigative journalists meeting anonymous whistleblowers in a parking garage. There, they receive a hard drive filled with hundreds of thousands of explosive files and emails implicating Jacob Zuma’s South African government in a massive corruption scandal.
Director Rehad Desai (Everything Must Fall, Miners Shot Down) chronicles how the three Gupta brothers, once small-scale peddlers, cultivated relationships with Zuma and other ANC figures, and parlayed them into massive profits. The brothers were involved in everything from a US$100 billion nuclear deal with Russia, to graft at the state-owned railway and power companies. Tens of millions were stolen from money earmarked for rural development and funneled into a lavish Gupta family wedding. Journalists investigating this corruption were targets of a disinformation campaign accusing them of being neo-colonialists supporting white monopoly power.
Eventually, the journalists are vindicated, and a state inquiry is called into “state capture”—a massive corruption scheme involving the Guptas, Zuma and his government, and international finance and consulting firms.
HOW TO STEAL A COUNTRY serves as a warning on how multinational companies and ruthless entrepreneurs can co-opt democracies for their own profit.
“This is a devastating reminder of greed, complicity and the outright theft of a nation’s resources.” —City Press
Citation
Main credits
Desai, Rehad (film director)
Desai, Rehad (film producer)
Desai, Rehad (screenwriter)
Kaplan, Mark (film director)
Desai, Zivia Keiper (film producer)
Khanna, Anita (film producer)
Khanna, Anita (screenwriter)
Other credits
Editors, Megan Gill [and 3 others]; directors of photography, Nic Hofmeyr, Duncan Tilley.
Distributor subjects
South Africa; Communication; Economics, Economic Sociology; Ethics (Business); Government; Journalism; Media Studies; Politics; Political Science; Sociology (Economic)Keywords
; "How to Steal a Country"; Icarus Films; South Africa; Business Ethics; Communication; Economics; Sociology; Government; Journalism; Media Studies; Politics; Political Science; Economic Sociology; ; "How to Steal a Country"; Icarus Films,doc; sociss
WEBVTT
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in possession of a hard drive.
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is that it was in the public interest.
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And that the country as a whole really needed
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to get this information.
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my feeling is that President Zuma isn\'t
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running this country.
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Others are running this country.
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when you guys received the hard drive,
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the Gupta hard drive, at amaBhungane?
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which would have been in kind of early 2017.
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been made public in South Africa revealing
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how the ruling ANC no longer controls the state apparatus.
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and it says you\'re not just right,
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it\'s far worse than you thought it was.
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This is massive.
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You know and, you get goose bumps.
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And then you also enter into that realm of fear.
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what it\'s like to be inside those emails.
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You kind of feel the revoltingness sort of
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rise up your oesophagus as you go along.
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the people will stand up again,
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and we will take control back of our country comrades.
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both within the state and outside the state,
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A: Should be stopped from doing this and B,
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should be called to account.
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\'cause a friend of mine from university
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had become part of their company.
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And they were really simple people
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and they were very hospitable.
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And I remember Atul was like a bouncy jolly chap,
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\"You got to come work for me,
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\"you got to come work for me,\"
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and I thought hell no.
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The family were certainly not from upper class stock.
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They were people who dragged themselves
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up by the bootstrap.
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Democracy was peaking over the horizon
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and there was much hope in this country.
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I was excited to be investing here.
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our chairman, who\'s spending much time out
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of the country.
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It\'s very good to have him here tonight.
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sons and those three sons were the oldest,
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Ajay Gupta, who\'s regarded
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as the patriarch or the brains behind the family.
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Then the middle brother, Atul.
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He was the outgoing one.
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He was the one who scouted for networks and opportunities.
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And then there was the baby son called Tony or Rajesh Gupta.
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Then of course there\'s the mother
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and she\'s the matriarch.
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They say everything they do, they do for her.
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They came here as traders.
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They sold shoes out of the boot of their car
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and when they got here it was pretty clear
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that Jacob Zuma was a rising force in South Africa.
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2,329!
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So they began to read the cards and worked out
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that Jacob Zuma was going to be president.
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And how did they get to know him?
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Well, they got to know his children first.
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The daughter was put on to the board of Sahara Computers.
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It is regarded as the first company
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on which they built all of these others.
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So I\'ve just forwarded you the email.
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Could you please have a look and see if you guys
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are able to assist us?
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As President Zuma rises,
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their businesses also they, they grow,
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they become major, major players.
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Oh is it...
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Super, sharp.
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Bye, bye, bye.
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We started digging more and more
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into what were the politicians exactly you know, linked to.
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Why are the Guptas behaving in the way
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that they are behaving?
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to look back and reflect on our achievements.
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For our family, the Oakbay Group family,
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with over 5000 family members,
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we have worked on a wide range of projects,
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in many different parts of South Africa.
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No one can ever see the entirety of our work,
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but as a group we only continue to move forward and grow.
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their way into state contracts through a back door,
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and they were involved long
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before we saw them there.
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They were able to come into a lot of state
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contracts to start benefiting
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from those contracts by acting as what they call
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a business development partner for Regiments Capital.
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is strong, formidable, but even a buffalo needs
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time to realize its potential.
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successful black owned consulting and financial
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advisory firms in South Africa.
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They received a lot of contracts.
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It was well known that they donated to the ANC
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and that they were politically connected.
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Regiments, enabling progress.
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he appointed me as the head
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of the South African Secret Service.
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The Guptas had acquired Shiva Uranium Mine
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and the Americans were very concerned and we found
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it justifiable reason to recommend a full
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intelligence investigation into the Gupta family.
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So, I did meet the president
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and that meeting didn\'t go down very well.
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The president in no uncertain terms
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explained why he disagreed with us.
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He explained his long relationship
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with the Guptas, how they helped him
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when he was in trouble, the relationship
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between his son and the Guptas and essentially he said
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that he doesn\'t think there is a basis for investigation.
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In the intelligence services,
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when you have a disagreement
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with your principal, and this is not the first
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disagreement, there were other disagreements,
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the correct thing to do is to tender your resignation.
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has been very neatly taken care of.
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And the capturing of the security cluster
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was priority number one.
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It\'s so untransparent.
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It\'s so opaque and it makes so little actual sense.
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a function in South Africa
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had landed at the Waterkloof air-force base,
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we were just as surprised.
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We do not understand how an aircraft
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would be allowed to land at a military base.
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at Waterkloof, that is designated a national
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key point, it was such a fuck you,
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landing that plane at Waterkloof it really was.
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That show of power was too much.
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and flown down to South Africa
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where they didn\'t have visas, they didn\'t have clearance.
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They didn\'t even want an immigration stamp.
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And that sparked off a lot of public outrage.
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Indian business families,
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they have this tradition of doing these huge
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extravagant bashes and do\'s for anything,
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And if it\'s a wedding it\'s like the event
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of a lifetime.
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The Guptas are known for very,
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very extravagant weddings.
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was allowed to land
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there because of your connections to President Pacob Zuma.
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Some unknown reason are trying to create
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this controversy, believe me.
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in the history of democratic South Africa
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was the landing at Waterkloof.
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This moment of overreach where they flexed
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so much muscle, you know they,
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they strained their biceps so massively,
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they actually tore through their clothing
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and we got a peak at how this actually works.
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That sort of, is where the fence starts opening
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and we all, we all walked in and start
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to investigate these guys as much as we could.
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My family is being undermined.
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Even by the very honorable members
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who don\'t ask, who don\'t ask as to what actually happened.
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And I feel very aggrieved,
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I must tell you for the first time.
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I\'ve been convicted, painted black,
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called the first class corrupt man on facts
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that are not tested.
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I take exception.
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he\'s behaving, with very low morals,
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questionable standards of integrity.
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Thrives in chaos.
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Robben Island, MK all of those
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struggle credentials and well respected
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in certain quarters.
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There was a problem in those early \'90s,
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when a lot of people came back from exile
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or came out in the open, you know people
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who were underground.
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A certain script began to develop.
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You\'ve been in exile, you haven\'t been able
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to accumulate anything, your children, whatever,
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let me send your children,
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to pay for your kids to go to school
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you want a holiday cottage?
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Use my holiday cottage.
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And people came to be absorbed
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into a very wealthy, may I use the word bourgeoisie?
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Are the Guptas influencing
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you in running the government?
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I know the Guptas.
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My son is partner with them.
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was to dig in to their share registers to try
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and figure out the structure
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of their companies, the beneficial ownership
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and how it all worked.
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One of the things we started to do was to map
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the way in which Duduzane Zuma featured
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in the Gupta empire
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and what we found is that although he wasn\'t by any means
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the controlling shareholder in any
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of those companies, he was kind of cut in in each
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one of their significant deals.
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The first deal is in mid-2008,
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and as Zuma\'s political star rises,
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you see him being cut into more and more
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and more deals.
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Just taking a slice the whole way along,
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I came across them.
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They happened to be in the vicinity.
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At that point they were in the house,
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meeting with my father and like many people
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I\'ve met in that space, I met them.
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of character, and they understand ambition,
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a certain type of ambition very, very well.
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They can see people and pick them out and know.
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Duduzane was the key to the whole castle.
258
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Get Duduzane, everything runs through him.
259
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260
00:17:26.930 --> 00:17:28.970
but I want to be real with you,
261
00:17:28.970 --> 00:17:32.131
many of the things, this young boy,
262
00:17:32.131 --> 00:17:35.369
since beginning with us, since beginning
263
00:17:35.369 --> 00:17:39.340
and he worked even 16 to 18 hours daily.
264
00:17:39.340 --> 00:17:42.480
He go himself to the all mines, all places.
265
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He don\'t sit in an air-conditioned room
266
00:17:44.930 --> 00:17:47.850
and just count the money or do this.
267
00:17:47.850 --> 00:17:49.730
268
00:17:49.730 --> 00:17:52.370
think the Guptas wanted from you?
269
00:17:52.370 --> 00:17:53.870
270
00:17:53.870 --> 00:17:56.903
I think they liked me as I like them.
271
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I think I\'m a likeable guy.
272
00:17:58.620 --> 00:18:00.220
273
00:18:00.220 --> 00:18:02.030
they wanted me because I\'m the son
274
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of the president?
275
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276
00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:05.913
these guys and I\'m glad
277
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we are where we are today.
278
00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:13.035
279
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out more and more information,
280
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the Gupta\'s decision to get into the media
281
00:18:17.100 --> 00:18:18.653
business was quite smart.
282
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They had their own newspaper, The New Age.
283
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They had their own TV station, ANN7.
284
00:18:31.060 --> 00:18:34.012 line:15%
285
00:18:34.012 --> 00:18:35.563 line:15%
their version of the facts.
286
00:18:40.700 --> 00:18:42.840 line:15%
287
00:18:42.840 --> 00:18:45.330 line:15%
288
00:18:45.330 --> 00:18:47.510 line:15%
the commander of the armed forces.
289
00:18:47.510 --> 00:18:49.900
290
00:18:49.900 --> 00:18:51.630
of the Republic of South Africa.
291
00:18:51.630 --> 00:18:53.350
Welcome sir to ANN7.
292
00:18:53.350 --> 00:18:54.507
293
00:18:54.507 --> 00:18:55.924 line:15%
Happy to be here.
294
00:18:57.781 --> 00:19:00.210 line:15%
295
00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:03.945 line:15%
about how the editorial policy should be.
296
00:19:03.945 --> 00:19:06.367 line:15%
He would say that he didn\'t want an out
297
00:19:06.367 --> 00:19:08.120 line:15%
and out propaganda station.
298
00:19:08.120 --> 00:19:11.130
He wanted there to be a very positive approach,
299
00:19:11.130 --> 00:19:12.940
as far as the ANC was concerned,
300
00:19:12.940 --> 00:19:14.900
and more specifically the coterie around them
301
00:19:14.900 --> 00:19:16.100
in the ANC.
302
00:19:16.100 --> 00:19:18.070
And also he wanted his rivals,
303
00:19:18.070 --> 00:19:21.060
both within the ANC and outside, to be featured,
304
00:19:21.060 --> 00:19:23.230
but featured in a negative light,
305
00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:24.740
and he said that it should not be direct,
306
00:19:24.740 --> 00:19:26.240
it should be subtle.
307
00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:30.000
Only then would people give this station any credibility.
308
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.327
And he needed a station like this, which,
309
00:19:32.327 --> 00:19:35.883 line:15%
unlike the other stations would sing his praises.
310
00:19:37.990 --> 00:19:41.480 line:15%
311
00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:42.790 line:15%
you know, half-baked.
312
00:19:42.790 --> 00:19:44.130 line:15%
People didn\'t know their stuff,
313
00:19:44.130 --> 00:19:46.113 line:15%
the production standards were poor.
314
00:19:47.120 --> 00:19:49.700 line:15%
315
00:19:49.700 --> 00:19:51.480 line:15%
my name is Afrika Gola and welcome
316
00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:52.333 line:15%
to the Nightcap.
317
00:19:56.110 --> 00:19:57.683 line:15%
Let\'s go to the headlines.
318
00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:01.930 line:15%
319
00:20:01.930 --> 00:20:05.950 line:15%
mission would, sorry the eh, the moving.
320
00:20:05.950 --> 00:20:07.450 line:15%
the movement is, jagga, jagga.
321
00:20:08.520 --> 00:20:09.743 line:15%
it\'s jerking, sorry.
322
00:20:10.940 --> 00:20:12.150 line:15%
May we go down please?
323
00:20:12.150 --> 00:20:17.150 line:15%
Apologies, can we, can we sustain the rolling nicely?
324
00:20:30.570 --> 00:20:34.632
325
00:20:34.632 --> 00:20:36.044
326
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:42.099
327
00:20:42.099 --> 00:20:43.373
of the country.
328
00:20:46.130 --> 00:20:50.030
Shortly after that, we began to feel
329
00:20:50.030 --> 00:20:53.540
the consequences of the economic meltdown,
330
00:20:53.540 --> 00:20:56.563
the 2007/2008 meltdown.
331
00:21:01.820 --> 00:21:05.660
When you are having to rev up an economy
332
00:21:05.660 --> 00:21:08.610
as we had to, investment in infrastructure is one
333
00:21:08.610 --> 00:21:11.600
of the smartest things that we do and I drove that.
334
00:21:22.510 --> 00:21:26.350
335
00:21:26.350 --> 00:21:29.240
of public investment in infrastructure
336
00:21:31.030 --> 00:21:32.383
in this country\'s history.
337
00:21:37.460 --> 00:21:40.940
338
00:21:41.910 --> 00:21:45.970
of interventions and that was commonly done
339
00:21:45.970 --> 00:21:49.493
by the state via its state owned enterprises.
340
00:21:51.540 --> 00:21:55.740
That also fitted in with the government\'s notion,
341
00:21:55.740 --> 00:21:58.580
that, and it was a Keynesian notion,
342
00:21:58.580 --> 00:22:01.460
that if the government invests in economy
343
00:22:01.460 --> 00:22:04.180
and just doesn\'t follow austerity,
344
00:22:04.180 --> 00:22:06.040
it becomes jobs creating,
345
00:22:06.040 --> 00:22:08.900
it promotes growth, and we had had many,
346
00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:10.343
many years of austerity.
347
00:22:17.250 --> 00:22:21.103
348
00:22:22.070 --> 00:22:25.047
public transport and energy generation.
349
00:22:26.958 --> 00:22:29.653
350
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.440
is that the shysters on the side-line
351
00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:38.233
were looking at those figures of investment,
352
00:22:39.560 --> 00:22:42.310
of infrastructure investment with starry eyes
353
00:22:46.430 --> 00:22:49.370
I knew what was going to happen
354
00:22:49.370 --> 00:22:51.433
and he was waiting the moment to do it.
355
00:23:05.125 --> 00:23:06.650 line:15%
When Malusi Gigaba came in,
356
00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:07.830 line:15%
it was very clear
357
00:23:07.830 --> 00:23:11.480 line:15%
that he was coming in on instructions to change
358
00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:12.363 line:15%
the whole thing.
359
00:23:16.650 --> 00:23:19.060
The Department of Public Enterprises
360
00:23:19.060 --> 00:23:21.710
has custodianship as a shareholder
361
00:23:21.710 --> 00:23:25.710
of some of the major state owned enterprises in South Africa
362
00:23:25.710 --> 00:23:30.500
including energy production, freight rail, airways.
363
00:23:30.500 --> 00:23:32.220
These state owned enterprises
364
00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:34.033
are the pulse of the economy.
365
00:23:39.520 --> 00:23:41.630
366
00:23:41.630 --> 00:23:43.960
So he worked out what state policy
367
00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:47.343
was and where the procurement money was largest.
368
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:52.910
So, really it was about looking where\'s the big
369
00:23:52.910 --> 00:23:55.510
public money being spent,
370
00:23:55.510 --> 00:23:57.003
how do we get into that?
371
00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:02.860
372
00:24:02.860 --> 00:24:04.680
In a country as big as South Africa,
373
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.190
and with as many mines in South Africa,
374
00:24:07.190 --> 00:24:10.523
basically nothing moves, unless Transnet moves it.
375
00:24:14.550 --> 00:24:19.550
They had to acquire a huge number of new locomotives.
376
00:24:19.800 --> 00:24:21.560
This was supposedly going to make rail
377
00:24:21.560 --> 00:24:24.870
transport more reliable, it was going to make it faster,
378
00:24:24.870 --> 00:24:26.570
and it was going to sort of persuade
379
00:24:26.570 --> 00:24:28.830
people that instead of putting cargo onto
380
00:24:28.830 --> 00:24:30.680
trucks, they should put it onto rail.
381
00:24:37.150 --> 00:24:38.670
You know, the scale of the project,
382
00:24:38.670 --> 00:24:40.080
it\'s not just big for South Africa,
383
00:24:40.080 --> 00:24:42.200
it was a big project globally.
384
00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.200
So you had huge multinational companies
385
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:47.300
bidding for this massive, massive project.
386
00:24:51.940 --> 00:24:54.780 line:15%
387
00:24:54.780 --> 00:24:58.410
He appointed Gupta lieutenants into key
388
00:24:59.270 --> 00:25:02.240
state owned entities positions.
389
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:04.530
390
00:25:04.530 --> 00:25:06.950
Brian Molefe as the Chief Executive Officer
391
00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:09.630
and then as the Chief Financial Officer,
392
00:25:09.630 --> 00:25:11.183
you have Anoj Singh coming in.
393
00:25:12.350 --> 00:25:16.360
394
00:25:16.360 --> 00:25:18.490
with the Guptas and they opened doors
395
00:25:18.490 --> 00:25:19.630
for the Guptas.
396
00:25:24.340 --> 00:25:26.530 line:15%
397
00:25:26.530 --> 00:25:29.020 line:15%
tweaked the rules so that the outcome
398
00:25:29.020 --> 00:25:31.500
would be that you had a huge part of the contract
399
00:25:31.500 --> 00:25:34.013
going to the Chinese state rail company.
400
00:25:36.350 --> 00:25:39.330
The tragedy is that the bidder that probably
401
00:25:39.330 --> 00:25:41.950
should have won, Mitsui, a Japanese company,
402
00:25:41.950 --> 00:25:44.500
they would have manufactured most
403
00:25:44.500 --> 00:25:46.723
of the locomotives in South Africa.
404
00:25:48.250 --> 00:25:50.910
It seems like companies like Mitsui,
405
00:25:50.910 --> 00:25:53.410
who had very good bids, and who in some cases
406
00:25:53.410 --> 00:25:56.743
were cheaper, were intentionally cut out.
407
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:07.930
So because of Transnet\'s growth strategy and the sheer size
408
00:26:07.930 --> 00:26:11.040
of these contracts, it really allows consulting companies
409
00:26:11.040 --> 00:26:12.540
to come in at this point.
410
00:26:12.540 --> 00:26:14.540
You\'ve got the global consulting giant
411
00:26:14.540 --> 00:26:16.700
McKinsey getting into bed with the politically
412
00:26:16.700 --> 00:26:18.793
connected local company Regiments.
413
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:23.960
McKinsey and Regiments each get over a billion
414
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:25.760
Rands worth of consulting contracts.
415
00:26:29.700 --> 00:26:32.190
Regiments just so happen to then pay half
416
00:26:32.190 --> 00:26:35.440
of their amount to a series of letterbox companies
417
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:37.280
controlled by Salim Essa,
418
00:26:37.280 --> 00:26:39.733
the Gupta\'s very close business partner.
419
00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:52.890
By 2015, the big money had been spent.
420
00:26:52.890 --> 00:26:55.610
The big contracts had been signed at Transnet,
421
00:26:55.610 --> 00:26:56.943
at the rail agency.
422
00:26:58.550 --> 00:27:01.510 line:15%
What you see is Brian Molefe and Anoj Singh
423
00:27:01.510 --> 00:27:03.960
being sort of picked up out of Transnet
424
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:07.203
and moved across into Eskom, our state power utility.
425
00:27:14.744 --> 00:27:18.220
You know in 2015, Eskom was already in crisis.
426
00:27:18.220 --> 00:27:21.093
We\'d had years of power-cuts.
427
00:27:23.220 --> 00:27:25.657
It\'s one of the biggest companies in South Africa
428
00:27:25.657 --> 00:27:28.550
and the amount of debt that it has poses
429
00:27:28.550 --> 00:27:31.273
an existential threat to the economy.
430
00:27:35.950 --> 00:27:37.920
When Brian Molefe and Anoj Singh
431
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:42.200
come into Eskom, it\'s at a point where we really need
432
00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:44.460
executives coming in who are going to recognize
433
00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:47.260
the problem and who are going to start dealing with it.
434
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:53.510
Instead what we have is we have executives
435
00:27:53.510 --> 00:27:56.733
coming in who seem to be distracted by other things.
436
00:28:05.494 --> 00:28:06.670
437
00:28:06.670 --> 00:28:08.342
He\'s bloody lying.
438
00:28:08.342 --> 00:28:11.630
We use that one as our own.
439
00:28:13.080 --> 00:28:15.860
Soon after the 2014 elections,
440
00:28:15.860 --> 00:28:20.290
President Jacob Zuma makes this mysterious trip to Russia.
441
00:28:20.290 --> 00:28:23.000
442
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:26.283
a bid for a nuclear power project in South Africa.
443
00:28:28.180 --> 00:28:31.270
444
00:28:31.270 --> 00:28:35.020
to actually figure out that he went there to sign
445
00:28:35.020 --> 00:28:38.923
some sort of nuclear deal to build nuclear stations.
446
00:28:47.060 --> 00:28:49.790
447
00:28:49.790 --> 00:28:51.540
In fact, over a trillion Rand,
448
00:28:51.540 --> 00:28:52.810
I think would be the ultimate,
449
00:28:52.810 --> 00:28:55.010
the ultimate cost of these nuclear reactors.
450
00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:00.000
We understand now how the Guptas work.
451
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.130
Effectively, they\'d want a piece of almost
452
00:29:02.130 --> 00:29:04.960
every single procurement initiative on the back
453
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:06.883
of this vast infrastructure deal.
454
00:29:08.355 --> 00:29:09.210
One of the big, big schemes
455
00:29:09.210 --> 00:29:11.120
in there is the fuel to generate
456
00:29:11.120 --> 00:29:12.720
the nuclear reactors themselves.
457
00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:23.600
458
00:29:23.600 --> 00:29:26.373
company that actually bought the uranium mine.
459
00:29:27.830 --> 00:29:31.023
So in essence, they were lining themselves up
460
00:29:31.023 --> 00:29:32.943
in this nuclear deal.
461
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:41.558
462
00:29:41.558 --> 00:29:44.817
on nuclear and do you think that South Africa
463
00:29:44.817 --> 00:29:46.734 line:15%
can actually afford it?
464
00:29:49.342 --> 00:29:51.342 line:15%
465
00:29:53.523 --> 00:29:55.560
466
00:29:55.560 --> 00:29:58.660
other types of clear energy,
467
00:29:58.660 --> 00:30:01.310
we\'ll not reach the percentage
468
00:30:01.310 --> 00:30:03.329
that the nuclear will bring to solve the problem
469
00:30:03.329 --> 00:30:07.210
of energy in this country once and for all.
470
00:30:07.210 --> 00:30:09.940
And that\'s the reason why we are pursuing it.
471
00:30:09.940 --> 00:30:13.360
Is an important kind of energy that you need.
472
00:30:20.613 --> 00:30:22.600
473
00:30:22.600 --> 00:30:24.970
of course as a president,
474
00:30:24.970 --> 00:30:26.484
they approved this thing.
475
00:30:26.484 --> 00:30:27.857
476
00:30:27.857 --> 00:30:30.610
477
00:30:30.610 --> 00:30:33.370
478
00:30:33.370 --> 00:30:34.493
that had to decide.
479
00:30:38.580 --> 00:30:42.110
Tension rose to a level where treasury was seen
480
00:30:42.110 --> 00:30:44.970
as an enemy within the state.
481
00:30:44.970 --> 00:30:47.760
482
00:30:47.760 --> 00:30:49.580
the financial aspects of the proposed
483
00:30:49.580 --> 00:30:51.480
nuclear deal with Russia,
484
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:52.657
and he also said he was not happy
485
00:30:52.657 --> 00:30:55.150
that I was not doing what I was supposed to have done
486
00:30:55.150 --> 00:30:57.870
a long time ago so that he could have something
487
00:30:57.870 --> 00:31:00.170
to present when he meets with his counterpart,
488
00:31:00.170 --> 00:31:02.643
President Putin, for their one on one meeting.
489
00:31:04.260 --> 00:31:05.940
490
00:31:08.320 --> 00:31:10.410
491
00:31:10.410 --> 00:31:13.130
minister, Nhlanhla Nene and appoints the little
492
00:31:13.130 --> 00:31:14.493
known Des van Rooyen.
493
00:31:15.360 --> 00:31:16.660
494
00:31:18.130 --> 00:31:20.313
Why go and fire a finance minister?
495
00:31:21.610 --> 00:31:26.610
496
00:31:27.830 --> 00:31:30.430
Minister of Finance.
497
00:31:30.430 --> 00:31:33.310
498
00:31:33.310 --> 00:31:35.420
with his three advisors,
499
00:31:35.420 --> 00:31:40.363
and one of them was a well-known Gupta associate.
500
00:31:42.070 --> 00:31:44.150
His cellphone places him
501
00:31:44.150 --> 00:31:46.040
around the Gupta compound
502
00:31:46.040 --> 00:31:48.240
when the presidential announcement
503
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.823
on his appointment was made.
504
00:31:56.440 --> 00:32:00.377
We exposed an email with a title that says
505
00:32:00.377 --> 00:32:03.340
\"Gents, finally.\" They are celebrating
506
00:32:03.340 --> 00:32:06.260
that they now have keys to the vault
507
00:32:06.260 --> 00:32:10.523
which is the finance department, national treasury,
508
00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:15.163
and there, they detail what needs to be done.
509
00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:21.020
510
00:32:21.020 --> 00:32:22.680
into the abyss.
511
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:24.380
We lost about 500 billion
512
00:32:24.380 --> 00:32:26.213
just in currency.
513
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:32.353
We see how unemployment ratcheted up after that.
514
00:32:33.970 --> 00:32:37.043
We saw how confidence was lost in the country.
515
00:32:39.194 --> 00:32:40.900
516
00:32:40.900 --> 00:32:43.573
517
00:32:49.510 --> 00:32:52.620
And this isn\'t just affecting rich people
518
00:32:52.620 --> 00:32:53.930
who are involved.
519
00:32:53.930 --> 00:32:58.180
This is to do with the lives of every South African
520
00:32:58.180 --> 00:33:01.253
who wants to have a decent life on earth.
521
00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:07.990
522
00:33:07.990 --> 00:33:10.520
took matters into their own hands.
523
00:33:10.520 --> 00:33:13.360
They met with President Pacob Zuma.
524
00:33:13.360 --> 00:33:15.500
We don\'t know what happened in that,
525
00:33:15.500 --> 00:33:17.370
in that meeting, but...
526
00:33:17.370 --> 00:33:21.380 line:15%
527
00:33:21.380 --> 00:33:23.810
the relatively unknown law maker sworn
528
00:33:23.810 --> 00:33:26.150
in as finance minister on Thursday
529
00:33:26.150 --> 00:33:28.470
has been replaced by Pravin Gordhan,
530
00:33:28.470 --> 00:33:31.710
who previously held the post for five years.
531
00:33:31.710 --> 00:33:33.610
532
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:35.670
of the financial impact
533
00:33:35.670 --> 00:33:39.337
this has had on those who are invested in the economy.
534
00:33:39.337 --> 00:33:41.840
535
00:33:41.840 --> 00:33:46.130
minister has widely been welcomed as a confidence booster.
536
00:34:22.200 --> 00:34:24.040
537
00:34:24.040 --> 00:34:27.900
deputy finance minister, Mcebisi Jonas.
538
00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:31.530
I had sent questions to the Guptas
539
00:34:31.530 --> 00:34:36.430
and then I got a long response from their lawyers saying
540
00:34:36.430 --> 00:34:39.233
that if I go ahead and print,
541
00:34:40.220 --> 00:34:42.150
they\'ll drag me to court, personally,
542
00:34:42.150 --> 00:34:43.963
and they\'ll drag the paper to court.
543
00:34:45.558 --> 00:34:46.391
I looked at it
544
00:34:47.830 --> 00:34:51.650
and I got this feeling
545
00:34:51.650 --> 00:34:56.060
of satisfaction because they were not disputing
546
00:34:56.060 --> 00:34:59.143
anything but threatening legal action.
547
00:35:00.770 --> 00:35:04.223
We went to print but Sunday was a most difficult day.
548
00:35:05.976 --> 00:35:08.350
ANC spokesperson at that time, Zizi Kodwa,
549
00:35:08.350 --> 00:35:11.370
issued a statement saying
550
00:35:11.370 --> 00:35:16.100
that we\'re writing gossip masquerading as news.
551
00:35:16.100 --> 00:35:18.110
I will never forget that.
552
00:35:18.110 --> 00:35:20.910
Then, you like, you try and go back,
553
00:35:20.910 --> 00:35:23.820
and try and think where did I miss it
554
00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:25.267
am I wrong, et cetera?
555
00:35:25.267 --> 00:35:26.840
Did these people mislead me?
556
00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:29.090
But we were talking to different people.
557
00:35:29.090 --> 00:35:31.730
Came Monday or Tuesday, Mcebisi Jonas confirmed
558
00:35:31.730 --> 00:35:33.530
the story at a press conference.
559
00:35:33.530 --> 00:35:35.820 line:15%
560
00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:38.110 line:15%
the position of minister of finance to replace
561
00:35:38.110 --> 00:35:40.360 line:15%
then minister Nene.
562
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:42.270 line:15%
I rejected this out of hand.
563
00:35:43.640 --> 00:35:46.310
The basis of my rejection of their offer
564
00:35:46.310 --> 00:35:50.143
is that it makes a mockery of our hard earned democracy.
565
00:35:54.540 --> 00:35:56.110
566
00:35:56.110 --> 00:35:57.570
with our work.
567
00:35:57.570 --> 00:35:59.393
Our phones became compromised.
568
00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:04.940
The editor at the Sunday Times, Bongani himself,
569
00:36:04.940 --> 00:36:08.040
was warned that what you guys are doing
570
00:36:08.040 --> 00:36:09.493
is attracting attention.
571
00:36:11.540 --> 00:36:15.287
But we knew that our state coffers were being ripped off.
572
00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:25.603
It was getting hot in the Gupta compound.
573
00:36:27.750 --> 00:36:30.563
President Jacob Zuma was feeling the heat himself.
574
00:36:31.540 --> 00:36:35.240
The ones that were looting within the ANC
575
00:36:35.240 --> 00:36:36.340 line:15%
were feeling the heat.
576
00:36:37.390 --> 00:36:39.150 line:15%
577
00:36:39.150 --> 00:36:41.470 line:15%
with security guards becoming confrontational
578
00:36:41.470 --> 00:36:44.070
when journalists didn\'t move away from the property.
579
00:36:46.135 --> 00:36:46.968
580
00:36:46.968 --> 00:36:48.103
581
00:36:49.055 --> 00:36:51.343
Are you threatening us?
582
00:36:54.240 --> 00:36:56.370
583
00:36:56.370 --> 00:36:58.413
who can change the narrative.
584
00:37:01.090 --> 00:37:02.290
585
00:37:02.290 --> 00:37:04.867
the reputation laundering capital of the world.
586
00:37:07.230 --> 00:37:09.040 line:15%
This is where you come when you need
587
00:37:09.040 --> 00:37:11.463 line:15%
to be washed clean of your sins.
588
00:37:13.350 --> 00:37:17.740
In early 2016 Bell Pottinger won an account
589
00:37:17.740 --> 00:37:20.590
in South Africa to look after Oakbay Investments,
590
00:37:20.590 --> 00:37:22.190
which was the holding company
591
00:37:22.190 --> 00:37:23.363
for the Gupta family.
592
00:37:24.550 --> 00:37:26.300
593
00:37:26.300 --> 00:37:29.690
white monopoly capital to deflect attention
594
00:37:29.690 --> 00:37:32.430
from the Guptas, and of course it worked
595
00:37:32.430 --> 00:37:35.950
because the most easiest thing to do here in South Africa
596
00:37:35.950 --> 00:37:39.863
is to racialize issues because of the apartheid history.
597
00:37:41.170 --> 00:37:46.053
So it gains you know traction by social media and bots.
598
00:37:49.110 --> 00:37:50.610
599
00:37:50.610 --> 00:37:53.308
for the Guptas to kind of rebrand
600
00:37:53.308 --> 00:37:56.360
their involvement in state capture
601
00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:59.510
to rebrand it as they were these disruptors
602
00:37:59.510 --> 00:38:01.350
who were coming in to kind of challenge
603
00:38:01.350 --> 00:38:04.210
the powerful economic elite.
604
00:38:04.210 --> 00:38:05.480
So what you saw happening
605
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:08.700
was journalists being kind of branded
606
00:38:08.700 --> 00:38:12.560
as these the servants, the lapdogs of white
607
00:38:12.560 --> 00:38:14.033
monopoly capital.
608
00:38:20.450 --> 00:38:23.550
609
00:38:23.550 --> 00:38:25.993
with racial overtones.
610
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:30.300
So these were not new ideas,
611
00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:32.540
but it was just the deployment
612
00:38:32.540 --> 00:38:37.540
of these ideas which were used to distract against claims
613
00:38:40.300 --> 00:38:42.670
that Zuma was corrupt, inept
614
00:38:44.076 --> 00:38:45.763
and was benefitting his friends.
615
00:38:46.890 --> 00:38:49.350
The way that that argument was pushed out
616
00:38:49.350 --> 00:38:53.993
was through Facebook posts and Twitter memes.
617
00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:07.360
618
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:09.020
to secure this deal.
619
00:39:13.050 --> 00:39:15.370
620
00:39:15.370 --> 00:39:17.610
in British public relations.
621
00:39:17.610 --> 00:39:22.350
Unrepentant, enthusiastic even about taking on
622
00:39:23.640 --> 00:39:25.953
difficult geopolitical clients.
623
00:39:28.370 --> 00:39:31.113
People who had served in Pinochet\'s government,
624
00:39:32.580 --> 00:39:36.013
the wife of Bashar al-Assad, Asma al-Assad.
625
00:39:37.339 --> 00:39:40.920
All of these people had Tim Bell\'s services.
626
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:43.110
627
00:39:43.110 --> 00:39:45.730
to discuss whether they needed public relations
628
00:39:45.730 --> 00:39:49.130
help or not and we talked for several hours
629
00:39:49.130 --> 00:39:52.200
and had a meeting to discuss what we would do
630
00:39:52.200 --> 00:39:54.270
and came back, and I came back and I said
631
00:39:54.270 --> 00:39:56.920
to James Henderson, who was the Chief Executive,
632
00:39:56.920 --> 00:39:59.687
it\'s a very interesting piece of business
633
00:39:59.687 --> 00:40:00.970
but we can\'t handle it
634
00:40:00.970 --> 00:40:03.080
because there\'s a conflict of interest.
635
00:40:03.080 --> 00:40:04.330
636
00:40:04.330 --> 00:40:06.470
that we have an email that you sent
637
00:40:06.470 --> 00:40:11.470
on the 18th of January 2016, in which you said the trip
638
00:40:11.480 --> 00:40:12.730
was a great success.
639
00:40:12.730 --> 00:40:15.101
640
00:40:15.101 --> 00:40:15.934
641
00:40:15.934 --> 00:40:18.420
whereby we would earn a 100,000 pounds a month
642
00:40:18.420 --> 00:40:23.140
plus costs and I will oversee this and make further reports.
643
00:40:23.140 --> 00:40:25.015
That\'s in direct conflict
644
00:40:25.015 --> 00:40:25.848
with what you\'ve just said.
645
00:40:25.848 --> 00:40:26.853
646
00:40:26.853 --> 00:40:27.686
That\'s exactly the same as I said.
647
00:40:27.686 --> 00:40:29.272
You can try attack me all you like,
648
00:40:29.272 --> 00:40:30.390
but it\'s not going to work.
649
00:40:30.390 --> 00:40:32.160
I had nothing to do with getting this account.
650
00:40:32.160 --> 00:40:33.427
651
00:40:33.427 --> 00:40:34.433
Well you\'re obviously
652
00:40:34.433 --> 00:40:36.026
a very popular man tonight.
653
00:40:36.026 --> 00:40:37.220
654
00:40:37.220 --> 00:40:40.540
655
00:40:47.869 --> 00:40:50.190
656
00:40:50.190 --> 00:40:53.297
these very weird images of me
657
00:40:53.297 --> 00:40:56.133
very clearly meant to demean and shame me.
658
00:41:04.080 --> 00:41:06.960
The thing that I realize now is that it worked
659
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:10.140
because I kept quiet about it for months
660
00:41:10.140 --> 00:41:14.220
and I would call up my family and say hey
661
00:41:14.220 --> 00:41:15.510
it\'s not me in those pictures
662
00:41:15.510 --> 00:41:18.770
because clearly it impacted and it hurt and I needed
663
00:41:18.770 --> 00:41:21.610
people to know that it wasn\'t me on the lap
664
00:41:21.610 --> 00:41:24.180
of a billionaire, Johan Rupert, or in his bed,
665
00:41:24.180 --> 00:41:25.980
those were some of the other images.
666
00:41:28.300 --> 00:41:30.530
Women journalists are often attacked
667
00:41:30.530 --> 00:41:33.900
and demeaned in these ways when you say,
668
00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:36.260
when they or we say things that people
669
00:41:36.260 --> 00:41:39.503
don\'t like, it\'s a very easy revenge tactic.
670
00:41:51.770 --> 00:41:56.160
671
00:41:56.160 --> 00:41:59.250
issue which many black people of this country
672
00:41:59.250 --> 00:42:04.130
actually struggle with and need to see a change around it.
673
00:42:04.130 --> 00:42:06.700
But somebody took their struggle
674
00:42:06.700 --> 00:42:11.050
in their twisted way, to their own benefit
675
00:42:11.050 --> 00:42:13.120
to their own interest.
676
00:42:13.120 --> 00:42:17.040
Instead of actually opening up the markets
677
00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:20.440
for you know the true economic transformation
678
00:42:20.440 --> 00:42:21.490
of many black people.
679
00:42:39.890 --> 00:42:42.903
680
00:42:44.350 --> 00:42:47.030
And what it really gets turned into is this idea
681
00:42:47.030 --> 00:42:48.500
that not just the Guptas,
682
00:42:48.500 --> 00:42:52.253
but also Zuma are really victims.
683
00:42:53.640 --> 00:42:55.680
And it kind of becomes quite a vitriolic
684
00:42:55.680 --> 00:42:57.840
and quite a nasty campaign.
685
00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:59.160
686
00:42:59.160 --> 00:43:02.990
I\'m the public face of the evil conspiracy
687
00:43:02.990 --> 00:43:04.290
of white monopoly capital.
688
00:43:11.499 --> 00:43:13.070
I\'m the kind of face that gets picked
689
00:43:13.070 --> 00:43:16.980
on along with other media figures like Ferial,
690
00:43:17.970 --> 00:43:21.050
Thanduxolo Jika from the Sunday Times,
691
00:43:21.050 --> 00:43:23.200
they have also been doing great work,
692
00:43:23.200 --> 00:43:25.876
the Sunday Times together
693
00:43:25.876 --> 00:43:27.304
with AmaBhungane was publishing stuff
694
00:43:27.304 --> 00:43:28.721
about the Guptas.
695
00:43:40.807 --> 00:43:42.960
696
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.953
and then all of a sudden hell broke loose.
697
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:04.020
Well-known President Pacob Zuma supporters,
698
00:44:04.020 --> 00:44:07.460
they interrupted the whole town hall meeting.
699
00:44:07.460 --> 00:44:09.593
They stormed the place, caused chaos,
700
00:44:10.690 --> 00:44:13.740
didn\'t want this meeting to go ahead.
701
00:44:13.740 --> 00:44:15.883
We couldn\'t talk about state capture.
702
00:44:17.433 --> 00:44:19.412
703
00:44:19.412 --> 00:44:21.810
Don\'t fucking mess with us.
704
00:44:21.810 --> 00:44:23.949
705
00:44:23.949 --> 00:44:25.036
on our people.
706
00:44:25.036 --> 00:44:26.870
You stole our land.
707
00:44:26.870 --> 00:44:29.020
You stole our mines.
708
00:44:29.020 --> 00:44:31.060
You stole our banks.
709
00:44:31.060 --> 00:44:33.210
You continue with racism
710
00:44:33.210 --> 00:44:35.720
and there\'s been mass murder in this country
711
00:44:35.720 --> 00:44:37.367
by white people.
712
00:44:37.367 --> 00:44:38.986
They continue to attack us.
713
00:44:38.986 --> 00:44:41.736
That continue to attack us today.
714
00:44:51.290 --> 00:44:54.970
715
00:44:54.970 --> 00:44:56.790
I mean, police had to be called
716
00:44:56.790 --> 00:44:59.580
in because they were very violent
717
00:44:59.580 --> 00:45:01.890
and the aim was to basically
718
00:45:01.890 --> 00:45:04.533
squash our freedom of speech.
719
00:45:26.600 --> 00:45:29.450
720
00:45:29.450 --> 00:45:33.810
during this period was the office of the Public Protector
721
00:45:33.810 --> 00:45:36.710
which is basically there to protect people
722
00:45:36.710 --> 00:45:39.763
against maladministration from the state.
723
00:45:42.830 --> 00:45:46.753 line:15%
724
00:45:59.070 --> 00:46:01.290
725
00:46:01.290 --> 00:46:03.560
to conduct a systematic investigation
726
00:46:03.560 --> 00:46:07.000
into the involvement of the Gupta family in state affairs,
727
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:08.750
as well as the awarding of contracts
728
00:46:08.750 --> 00:46:10.583
to companies linked to the family.
729
00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:17.250
730
00:46:17.250 --> 00:46:20.320
to have a person called Thuli Madonsela,
731
00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:22.330
advocate Thuli Madonsela,
732
00:46:22.330 --> 00:46:24.370
who was the public protector.
733
00:46:24.370 --> 00:46:28.300
She showed such leadership.
734
00:46:28.300 --> 00:46:30.370
735
00:46:30.370 --> 00:46:34.443
the constitutional dream is a pipe dream.
736
00:46:53.090 --> 00:46:57.228
737
00:46:57.228 --> 00:46:59.538
he had traveled to the Gupta compound
738
00:46:59.538 --> 00:47:01.470
not less than 19 times,
739
00:47:01.470 --> 00:47:03.470
meaning that there were things that were being
740
00:47:03.470 --> 00:47:05.433
planned at the Gupta compound.
741
00:47:14.338 --> 00:47:16.660
742
00:47:16.660 --> 00:47:18.493
should resign over this matter.
743
00:47:19.520 --> 00:47:21.000
I will take responsibility
744
00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:21.833
as the CEO.
745
00:47:23.860 --> 00:47:25.620
746
00:47:25.620 --> 00:47:29.940
after you know the report that Thuli Madonsela released.
747
00:47:29.940 --> 00:47:34.683
Brian Molefe resigned as a CEO at at Eskom.
748
00:47:37.550 --> 00:47:40.451
In many ways, her conclusions lead
749
00:47:40.451 --> 00:47:44.353
to an establishment of the state capture inquiry.
750
00:47:45.910 --> 00:47:50.910
751
00:47:50.940 --> 00:47:53.770
The great tragedy is that in that gap,
752
00:47:53.770 --> 00:47:56.500
huge amounts of money have left, people have left,
753
00:47:56.500 --> 00:47:58.150
people who should have been arrested,
754
00:47:58.150 --> 00:48:01.173
and also evidence is being destroyed.
755
00:48:04.470 --> 00:48:06.420
756
00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:09.600
and treasury and the department of transport.
757
00:48:09.600 --> 00:48:11.900
What are some of the plans that are being
758
00:48:11.900 --> 00:48:15.500
proposed to fix the problem, right, so...
759
00:48:15.500 --> 00:48:17.010
760
00:48:17.010 --> 00:48:21.182
we realized that this was a systemic collapse
761
00:48:21.182 --> 00:48:23.253
of state institutions.
762
00:48:24.090 --> 00:48:27.193
It was not corruption that was isolated.
763
00:48:31.030 --> 00:48:35.483
I\'m talking about the revenue services, police,
764
00:48:37.010 --> 00:48:42.010
state security, the National Prosecuting Authority.
765
00:48:49.180 --> 00:48:50.810
766
00:48:50.810 --> 00:48:54.960
was not just the extraction of funds from institutions
767
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:59.010
like Eskom or Denel or whatever it is.
768
00:48:59.010 --> 00:49:01.899
It was also the capture and the almost
769
00:49:01.899 --> 00:49:06.899
decapitation of the relevant law enforcement institutions.
770
00:49:08.820 --> 00:49:10.260
You had a double whammy.
771
00:49:10.260 --> 00:49:12.630
You had the freedom to steal
772
00:49:12.630 --> 00:49:14.833 line:15%
but you also had freedom from prosecution.
773
00:49:18.270 --> 00:49:20.490 line:15%
774
00:49:20.490 --> 00:49:24.440 line:15%
an appointment of the era of President Jacob Zuma,
775
00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:26.630
where you put into place people who are not
776
00:49:27.560 --> 00:49:30.228
the best in their craft, in order to create
777
00:49:30.228 --> 00:49:32.640
malleable institutions.
778
00:49:32.640 --> 00:49:34.310
And that\'s exactly what\'s happening
779
00:49:34.310 --> 00:49:37.453
with Shaun Abraham\'s tenure at the NPA.
780
00:49:38.930 --> 00:49:42.993
781
00:49:43.890 --> 00:49:45.900
But the case doesn\'t make it to court.
782
00:49:45.900 --> 00:49:47.730
But it left so many questions
783
00:49:47.730 --> 00:49:51.150
as to why was the NPA so hell-bent
784
00:49:51.150 --> 00:49:53.463
on chasing the finance minister?
785
00:50:04.210 --> 00:50:07.560
We made concessions and agreements to deliver nuclear.
786
00:50:08.586 --> 00:50:10.053
And we have to pay the piper.
787
00:50:11.560 --> 00:50:14.160
National Treasury was saying,
788
00:50:14.160 --> 00:50:15.993
we can\'t afford this.
789
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:22.330
790
00:50:22.330 --> 00:50:25.660
because he needed to get a nuclear deal signed
791
00:50:25.660 --> 00:50:26.923
and he got reckless.
792
00:50:30.282 --> 00:50:32.040
793
00:50:32.040 --> 00:50:34.140
was recalled from his international roadshow,
794
00:50:34.140 --> 00:50:37.080
he received a one line statement from President Zuma
795
00:50:37.080 --> 00:50:38.330
saying come back.
796
00:50:38.330 --> 00:50:41.190
Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan was fired last
797
00:50:41.190 --> 00:50:45.470
night, and so too was his deputy minister Mcebisi Jonas.
798
00:50:52.448 --> 00:50:54.962
Our new Finance minister Malusi Gigaba,
799
00:50:54.962 --> 00:50:56.879
who is a Zuma loyalist.
800
00:50:59.817 --> 00:51:03.720 line:15%
801
00:51:03.720 --> 00:51:07.990 line:15%
not from any phone call, nor from any chat,
802
00:51:07.990 --> 00:51:11.550
or conversation but the TV screen spoke to us,
803
00:51:11.550 --> 00:51:14.560
so that was I\'m sure, as interesting for us
804
00:51:14.560 --> 00:51:15.563
as it was for you.
805
00:51:39.553 --> 00:51:41.450
806
00:51:41.450 --> 00:51:43.603
the people will stand up again.
807
00:51:44.990 --> 00:51:48.243
And we will take control back of our country comrades.
808
00:51:51.370 --> 00:51:53.402
809
00:51:53.402 --> 00:51:55.403
Rands might have disappeared,
810
00:51:55.403 --> 00:51:58.959
a hundred billion Rands is approximately 8 1/2
811
00:51:58.959 --> 00:52:01.100
to 9% of total government expenditure.
812
00:52:16.197 --> 00:52:18.260
I want to thank you and the many,
813
00:52:18.260 --> 00:52:20.330
many South Africans we meet all over
814
00:52:20.330 --> 00:52:23.708
and even don\'t meet for their encouragement,
815
00:52:23.708 --> 00:52:26.290
for the support and for the courage
816
00:52:26.290 --> 00:52:29.920
that they have given us during the last year and a half
817
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:32.743
we\'ve been under constant attack in one
818
00:52:32.743 --> 00:52:35.900
form or another while we\'re trying to do good,
819
00:52:35.900 --> 00:52:38.593
honest work for ordinary South Africans.
820
00:52:39.587 --> 00:52:42.070
The only thing we\'re interested in,
821
00:52:42.070 --> 00:52:44.050
is how 55 million people
822
00:52:44.050 --> 00:52:46.083
can become richer, not a few.
823
00:52:50.980 --> 00:52:52.770
824
00:52:53.720 --> 00:52:55.270 line:15%
everything we have stood on,
825
00:52:55.270 --> 00:52:59.108 line:15%
on the altar of corruption,
826
00:52:59.108 --> 00:53:01.333 line:15%
greed and more greed.
827
00:53:14.102 --> 00:53:16.330
And finally, Mr. President,
828
00:53:16.330 --> 00:53:21.330
if you had ears to hear, and eyes to see,
829
00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:27.643
you would step down as Kathy required.
830
00:53:40.468 --> 00:53:44.670
831
00:53:44.670 --> 00:53:47.060
you still have another corruption story
832
00:53:47.060 --> 00:53:50.339
that you are writing and you can see
833
00:53:50.339 --> 00:53:53.740
that the majority of the people of this country
834
00:53:53.740 --> 00:53:57.859
are being denied a right to live and a right
835
00:53:57.859 --> 00:54:02.859
to have infrastructure, proper running water,
836
00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:04.653
proper sanitation.
837
00:54:13.350 --> 00:54:16.393
It\'s absolutely frustrating, demoralizing.
838
00:54:17.810 --> 00:54:19.260
Very much demoralizing.
839
00:54:19.260 --> 00:54:21.610
You find yourself, asking yourself,
840
00:54:21.610 --> 00:54:25.973
so many questions as to, is there justice in this?
841
00:54:30.140 --> 00:54:32.860
842
00:54:32.860 --> 00:54:34.190
Long before they were here,
843
00:54:34.190 --> 00:54:35.683
the path had been laid.
844
00:54:36.580 --> 00:54:37.867
The Guptas really came in though
845
00:54:37.867 --> 00:54:39.223
and they perfected it.
846
00:54:40.220 --> 00:54:42.040
847
00:54:42.040 --> 00:54:45.300
really is that it feels like the old apartheid days.
848
00:54:45.300 --> 00:54:46.890
So much of what we\'re seeing with regard
849
00:54:46.890 --> 00:54:50.170
to the Guptas has, has relied on old apartheid
850
00:54:50.170 --> 00:54:51.833
laws and old apartheid set ups.
851
00:54:56.580 --> 00:54:59.480
The kind of mouth feel of the whole thing takes
852
00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:01.563
you right back into the bad old days.
853
00:55:06.570 --> 00:55:10.950
854
00:55:10.950 --> 00:55:13.020
every single country inherited
855
00:55:13.020 --> 00:55:15.823
institutions that were extractive.
856
00:55:18.180 --> 00:55:20.420 line:15%
When you inherit institutions
857
00:55:20.420 --> 00:55:23.920 line:15%
and they were extractive, it\'s very easy to fall
858
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:27.200 line:15%
into the practices of the colonizer
859
00:55:28.788 --> 00:55:31.140
and I think that is part of our problem
860
00:55:31.140 --> 00:55:36.010
and what we see today, practices that are not dissimilar
861
00:55:36.010 --> 00:55:37.993
from what colonizers were doing.
862
00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:49.050
If you\'re able to do that in something
863
00:55:49.050 --> 00:55:52.543
that looks like a democracy, it becomes sustainable.
864
00:56:02.870 --> 00:56:07.830
And I think the objective was to establish
865
00:56:07.830 --> 00:56:11.383
that state and enable it to continue ad infinitum.
866
00:56:21.080 --> 00:56:25.920
If you\'ve got information which may
867
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:29.520
stop that particular decline,
868
00:56:29.520 --> 00:56:32.333
it\'s in everyone\'s interest that one stops it.
869
00:56:33.690 --> 00:56:37.970
I was approached by a person in possession
870
00:56:37.970 --> 00:56:39.310
of a hard drive.
871
00:56:39.310 --> 00:56:40.960
872
00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:45.120
To be honest, in the last year there have been times
873
00:56:45.120 --> 00:56:46.257
when I have said:
874
00:56:49.266 --> 00:56:51.110 line:15%
I\'ll never do this again.
875
00:56:51.110 --> 00:56:53.036 line:15%
But then you remind yourself
876
00:56:53.036 --> 00:56:55.156 line:15%
of why you started this whole process,
877
00:56:55.156 --> 00:56:57.406 line:15%
And when you use the logic of why you did it,
878
00:56:58.588 --> 00:57:01.093 line:15%
It prevails over any regrets that one might have.
879
00:57:04.380 --> 00:57:07.970
880
00:57:07.970 --> 00:57:10.650
881
00:57:10.650 --> 00:57:12.430
the editor from Daily Maverick,
882
00:57:12.430 --> 00:57:15.540
we kind of went up on to the rooftop
883
00:57:15.540 --> 00:57:16.640
of this shopping mall.
884
00:57:18.985 --> 00:57:20.270
We kind of put all of our tech,
885
00:57:20.270 --> 00:57:21.730
all of our phones, laptops,
886
00:57:21.730 --> 00:57:22.910
anything that was electronic,
887
00:57:22.910 --> 00:57:24.949
we put it into the car, locked the car
888
00:57:24.949 --> 00:57:26.460
and then walked away and went and stood in the middle
889
00:57:26.460 --> 00:57:27.553
of the parking lot.
890
00:57:29.622 --> 00:57:31.433
And that\'s sort of where they then said, okay,
891
00:57:31.433 --> 00:57:33.000
this is what we\'ve got.
892
00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:35.910
This is why we\'ve asked you to come here,
893
00:57:35.910 --> 00:57:38.260
we have this thing, we have this leak.
894
00:57:38.260 --> 00:57:40.940 line:15%
895
00:57:40.940 --> 00:57:43.380 line:15%
in these offices that we pay for and--
896
00:57:44.450 --> 00:57:48.143 line:15%
897
00:57:49.900 --> 00:57:53.193 line:15%
I\'d say once you take out duplications
898
00:57:53.193 --> 00:57:54.370
and things you\'re going to sit with a trove
899
00:57:54.370 --> 00:57:57.150
of around 200 maybe a bit more,
900
00:57:57.150 --> 00:57:59.070
getting it all together.
901
00:57:59.070 --> 00:58:03.423
902
00:58:03.423 --> 00:58:06.170
903
00:58:06.170 --> 00:58:09.030
we desperately tried to get the two witnesses
904
00:58:09.030 --> 00:58:10.320
to leave the country.
905
00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:11.470
There\'ll be no publication
906
00:58:11.470 --> 00:58:12.420
until they\'re gone.
907
00:58:15.150 --> 00:58:19.340
One night, sort of like just before 11:00,
908
00:58:19.340 --> 00:58:22.673
I get a call from Branko,
909
00:58:23.917 --> 00:58:25.567
\"Have you seen the Sunday Times?\"
910
00:58:26.700 --> 00:58:29.377
He said \"have a look online, the story\'s broken.
911
00:58:29.377 --> 00:58:31.227
\"Where does this come from?
912
00:58:31.227 --> 00:58:33.928
\"Have you been dealing with others?\"
913
00:58:33.928 --> 00:58:35.830
and I said not me, definitely not.
914
00:58:35.830 --> 00:58:36.663
I haven\'t.
915
00:58:38.420 --> 00:58:41.280
I phone him, and I said Stan,
916
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:43.723
you\'ve got to leave the country immediately.
917
00:58:44.770 --> 00:58:45.860 line:15%
918
00:58:45.860 --> 00:58:47.477 line:15%
We had to get away.
919
00:58:49.737 --> 00:58:51.857 line:15%
And from time to time when you\'re away
920
00:58:53.343 --> 00:58:56.880 line:15%
out the country, you kind of think
921
00:58:58.380 --> 00:59:00.630 line:15%
why on earth did I do this?
922
00:59:01.950 --> 00:59:04.870
923
00:59:04.870 --> 00:59:06.780
924
00:59:06.780 --> 00:59:08.740
have been made public in South Africa
925
00:59:08.740 --> 00:59:10.070
revealing how the ruling
926
00:59:10.070 --> 00:59:13.537
ANC no longer controls the state apparatus.
927
00:59:24.140 --> 00:59:27.203
928
00:59:29.120 --> 00:59:32.180
give me proof that the Guptas
929
00:59:32.180 --> 00:59:34.483
are corrupt and they\'re doing something wrong,
930
00:59:35.557 --> 00:59:36.430
and that\'s all it became.
931
00:59:36.430 --> 00:59:39.703
The emails just said, here\'s the proof Mr. President.
932
00:59:45.410 --> 00:59:49.230
933
00:59:49.230 --> 00:59:51.800
What we figure out from the leaks is that you\'ve got
934
00:59:51.800 --> 00:59:54.277
Gupta lieutenants heading up state owned companies.
935
00:59:54.277 --> 00:59:57.180
You\'ve got ministers that are in their pockets,
936
00:59:57.180 --> 00:59:59.480
you\'ve got these all expenses paid
937
00:59:59.480 --> 01:00:01.693
trips to India, Dubai.
938
01:00:03.720 --> 01:00:05.310
We figure out that the president\'s son
939
01:00:05.310 --> 01:00:07.513
has a residence permit in Dubai.
940
01:00:12.770 --> 01:00:15.450
I mean the emails really confirm the inner workings of deals
941
01:00:15.450 --> 01:00:17.420
that have been made between Gupta companies
942
01:00:17.420 --> 01:00:19.460
and particularly the big state owned companies,
943
01:00:19.460 --> 01:00:20.653
Transnet and Eskom.
944
01:00:34.090 --> 01:00:36.350
Once we had the Gupta Leaks we could see
945
01:00:36.350 --> 01:00:41.330
how quickly the Guptas turned one tiny coal contract
946
01:00:41.330 --> 01:00:42.700
that they never should have got in the first place
947
01:00:42.700 --> 01:00:44.880
\'cause the coal wasn\'t good enough quality,
948
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:48.310
how they start turning that into a kind
949
01:00:48.310 --> 01:00:50.173
of Eskom wide empire.
950
01:00:52.090 --> 01:00:53.963
951
01:00:53.963 --> 01:00:57.620
that we have, all of a sudden Brian Molefe
952
01:00:57.620 --> 01:01:01.880
was praising Optimum for delivering coal.
953
01:01:01.880 --> 01:01:05.080
Optimum became a superstar that was now
954
01:01:05.080 --> 01:01:06.423
keeping our lights on.
955
01:01:09.200 --> 01:01:11.540
One instance as a laboratory,
956
01:01:11.540 --> 01:01:15.280
they test coal contracted to Eskom,
957
01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:18.280
the test shows that there\'s bad coal
958
01:01:18.280 --> 01:01:19.843
coming from Optimum.
959
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:26.290
Eskom cut them off, canceled their contract,
960
01:01:26.290 --> 01:01:31.013
the guy had to let go of 80% of his staff,
961
01:01:32.270 --> 01:01:35.300
simply because they found something wrong
962
01:01:35.300 --> 01:01:36.423
with the Gupta\'s coal.
963
01:01:41.650 --> 01:01:43.174
You\'ve got more unemployed people
964
01:01:43.174 --> 01:01:44.753
on the streets simply because the Guptas
965
01:01:44.753 --> 01:01:46.633
have to be taken care of.
966
01:01:55.680 --> 01:01:57.170
967
01:01:57.170 --> 01:02:00.370
is you have the company taking the decision
968
01:02:00.370 --> 01:02:02.820
to go on this massive capital build project
969
01:02:02.820 --> 01:02:04.660
that was gonna cost tens of billions
970
01:02:04.660 --> 01:02:07.660
if not hundreds of billions of Rands over a number of years.
971
01:02:08.600 --> 01:02:11.340
It was kind of the biggest game in town
972
01:02:11.340 --> 01:02:13.273
and the Guptas were well aware of that.
973
01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:24.980
974
01:02:24.980 --> 01:02:27.660
about the poor and about serving everyone,
975
01:02:27.660 --> 01:02:31.350
the reality was every single move appeared
976
01:02:31.350 --> 01:02:34.173
to be designed to facilitate extraction.
977
01:02:42.161 --> 01:02:44.230
978
01:02:44.230 --> 01:02:45.480
it\'s being eaten from the inside.
979
01:02:45.480 --> 01:02:46.930
We can see it in the Gupta Leaks
980
01:02:46.930 --> 01:02:49.770
go into the emails, take a look, that\'s what it looks like.
981
01:02:49.770 --> 01:02:51.833
That\'s what the death of a system looks like.
982
01:03:00.354 --> 01:03:01.240
Here is the wedding scam:
983
01:03:01.240 --> 01:03:05.960
they stole over a 100 million rand from a farm company,
984
01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:07.210
an empowerment company that\'s meant
985
01:03:07.210 --> 01:03:08.773
to empower black farmers.
986
01:03:16.520 --> 01:03:19.100
They have a dairy company called Estina.
987
01:03:19.100 --> 01:03:22.000
Now, this dairy farm is never really meant to do anything.
988
01:04:03.170 --> 01:04:06.980
989
01:04:06.980 --> 01:04:07.813
OK.
990
01:04:07.813 --> 01:04:09.190
It sits in the Dubai bank accounts.
991
01:04:09.190 --> 01:04:12.798
Now, they have to hold this big, big wedding.
992
01:04:24.560 --> 01:04:26.470
So what did they do?
993
01:04:26.470 --> 01:04:30.847
They invoice a company in Dubai for 30 million Rand,
994
01:04:30.847 --> 01:04:32.200
$3 million.
995
01:04:32.200 --> 01:04:33.640
The company in Dubai sends the money
996
01:04:33.640 --> 01:04:34.490
to a company here
997
01:04:37.600 --> 01:04:41.783
and KPMG helps them register that as an expense.
998
01:04:44.220 --> 01:04:46.100
So not only have they stolen the money,
999
01:04:46.100 --> 01:04:48.063
but they\'re also not paying tax on the money
1000
01:04:48.063 --> 01:04:49.730
that they\'ve stolen.
1001
01:05:21.569 --> 01:05:22.900
1002
01:05:22.900 --> 01:05:26.160
in the information for example, contained in the leaked
1003
01:05:26.160 --> 01:05:30.440
Gupta emails that public money was taken
1004
01:05:30.440 --> 01:05:33.330
from a provincial government in the Free State
1005
01:05:33.330 --> 01:05:35.790
which went to a Gupta company.
1006
01:05:35.790 --> 01:05:37.575
You don\'t see anything wrong with that?
1007
01:05:37.575 --> 01:05:38.676
1008
01:05:38.676 --> 01:05:40.300
1009
01:05:40.300 --> 01:05:41.500
1010
01:05:49.706 --> 01:05:51.210
1011
01:05:51.210 --> 01:05:53.400 line:15%
they can behave exactly how they want,
1012
01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:55.080 line:15%
they can engage in corruption,
1013
01:05:55.080 --> 01:05:57.130 line:15%
they can steal money from a dairy farm
1014
01:05:57.130 --> 01:06:00.620 line:15%
in the Free State going for a Gupta wedding and still
1015
01:06:00.620 --> 01:06:01.743
get away with murder.
1016
01:06:05.620 --> 01:06:07.440
We have to be very vigilant
1017
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:10.950
about this white monopoly capital frame.
1018
01:06:10.950 --> 01:06:12.070
Who is McKinsey?
1019
01:06:12.070 --> 01:06:13.320
Who is KPMG?
1020
01:06:13.320 --> 01:06:16.087
These are global white monopoly capital companies.
1021
01:06:16.087 --> 01:06:18.440
Right, so we see that most
1022
01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:21.050
of the collaboration, most of the state capture
1023
01:06:21.050 --> 01:06:23.573
and so on is as been with these companies
1024
01:06:23.573 --> 01:06:26.063
that meet that definition.
1025
01:06:26.063 --> 01:06:27.250
1026
01:06:27.250 --> 01:06:29.239
that allowed state capture to flourish,
1027
01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:30.493
it was secrecy.
1028
01:06:31.580 --> 01:06:34.470
The Guptas needed offshore companies,
1029
01:06:34.470 --> 01:06:36.780
they needed places like the UAE,
1030
01:06:36.780 --> 01:06:39.580
they needed Hong Kong, they needed bank
1031
01:06:39.580 --> 01:06:42.631
accounts and companies in those places to act
1032
01:06:42.631 --> 01:06:44.733
as part of the laundering machine.
1033
01:06:45.580 --> 01:06:48.500
That became part of the crucial architecture
1034
01:06:48.500 --> 01:06:49.393
of state capture.
1035
01:06:51.660 --> 01:06:54.070
If one looks at the sort of main era
1036
01:06:54.070 --> 01:06:57.430
of state capture, what you see is international
1037
01:06:57.430 --> 01:07:00.110
software companies and particularly consulting
1038
01:07:00.110 --> 01:07:04.113
companies having a very good few years in South Africa.
1039
01:07:12.530 --> 01:07:13.960
There\'s an email that bounces
1040
01:07:13.960 --> 01:07:16.640
around between a bunch of McKinsey consultants.
1041
01:07:16.640 --> 01:07:20.230
The title of the email is Brian is going nuclear,
1042
01:07:20.230 --> 01:07:21.270
and what that\'s a reference
1043
01:07:21.270 --> 01:07:23.613
to is Brian Molefe, who appears to have bought
1044
01:07:23.613 --> 01:07:26.183
into the idea of the nuclear deal.
1045
01:07:28.130 --> 01:07:29.510
This is happening in a context
1046
01:07:29.510 --> 01:07:33.550
where there is so much scepticism that people
1047
01:07:33.550 --> 01:07:35.690
have about this nuclear deal.
1048
01:07:35.690 --> 01:07:38.180
And here you have the McKinsey consultants
1049
01:07:38.180 --> 01:07:41.350
who you can practically hear them like high fiving
1050
01:07:41.350 --> 01:07:43.287
each other over the email.
1051
01:07:59.161 --> 01:08:01.970
1052
01:08:01.970 --> 01:08:04.890
in and around these consulting firms.
1053
01:08:04.890 --> 01:08:06.740
And these kinds of consulting firms
1054
01:08:06.740 --> 01:08:11.360 line:15%
are part of the new unaccountable landscape
1055
01:08:11.360 --> 01:08:16.360 line:15%
that has taken hold in most places
1056
01:08:17.300 --> 01:08:18.303 line:15%
in the world.
1057
01:08:23.010 --> 01:08:26.220
These kinds of firms have moved primarily
1058
01:08:26.220 --> 01:08:30.770
from working just in the private sector
1059
01:08:30.770 --> 01:08:34.073
to also working with states.
1060
01:08:35.130 --> 01:08:40.043
They have access to the most valuable information.
1061
01:08:42.740 --> 01:08:47.060
They confuse state and private power in ways
1062
01:08:47.060 --> 01:08:51.030
that we have never seen before.
1063
01:08:51.030 --> 01:08:54.580
What is the essence of a modern democracy?
1064
01:08:54.580 --> 01:08:58.170
It is the separation of state
1065
01:08:58.170 --> 01:09:00.493
and private power.
1066
01:09:04.060 --> 01:09:07.080
What is the essence of a free market?
1067
01:09:07.080 --> 01:09:09.600
It is competition.
1068
01:09:09.600 --> 01:09:12.300
They\'re not interested in competition.
1069
01:09:12.300 --> 01:09:15.410
They\'re interested in gaining a foothold
1070
01:09:15.410 --> 01:09:20.243
and acquiring more and more reach and power.
1071
01:09:30.200 --> 01:09:32.560
What I\'ve been charting in this new system
1072
01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:36.200
of power and influence is a new ethics
1073
01:09:36.200 --> 01:09:37.793
that accompany it.
1074
01:09:38.900 --> 01:09:41.930
Several years ago, there was a key person
1075
01:09:41.930 --> 01:09:45.380
who had operated as a lobbyist
1076
01:09:45.380 --> 01:09:48.223
for very unsavoury foreign governments.
1077
01:09:49.520 --> 01:09:53.957
And he said \"You know, shame is for sissies.\"
1078
01:10:05.030 --> 01:10:08.810
1079
01:10:08.810 --> 01:10:11.923
to vote in a new national executive.
1080
01:10:13.690 --> 01:10:18.270
In 2017, a huge battle emerged
1081
01:10:18.270 --> 01:10:21.440
between President Zuma\'s former wife,
1082
01:10:21.440 --> 01:10:26.057
Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, and Cyril Ramaphosa.
1083
01:10:31.191 --> 01:10:33.608
1084
01:10:34.901 --> 01:10:39.318
against alleged corruption and abuse of office within
1085
01:10:40.406 --> 01:10:41.573
our own ranks.
1086
01:10:42.740 --> 01:10:45.800
1087
01:10:45.800 --> 01:10:48.893
The Zuma faction promoting state capture, corruption;
1088
01:10:50.010 --> 01:10:54.240
and a Cyril Ramaphosa faction trying to get
1089
01:10:54.240 --> 01:10:56.783
the economy and South Africa back on track.
1090
01:11:01.103 --> 01:11:04.603
1091
01:11:07.391 --> 01:11:10.641
Comrade Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma received
1092
01:11:11.909 --> 01:11:12.826
2261 votes.
1093
01:11:15.644 --> 01:11:20.452
Comrade Cyril Ramaphosa received 2440 votes.
1094
01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:57.450
1095
01:11:57.450 --> 01:12:00.170
of the ANC, I have therefore
1096
01:12:00.170 --> 01:12:05.170
come to the decision to resign as President of the Republic,
1097
01:12:07.400 --> 01:12:08.863
with immediate effect.
1098
01:12:15.542 --> 01:12:17.990
1099
01:12:17.990 --> 01:12:21.280
resigns, The Gupta compound is raided,
1100
01:12:21.280 --> 01:12:24.590
arrest warrants are issued for the Gupta brothers
1101
01:12:24.590 --> 01:12:26.743
and their well-known associates.
1102
01:12:29.440 --> 01:12:30.790
But then it was really too late
1103
01:12:30.790 --> 01:12:33.440
because the Gupta brothers and Duduzane Zuma
1104
01:12:33.440 --> 01:12:34.520
were not in the country.
1105
01:12:34.520 --> 01:12:35.520
They\'d already left.
1106
01:12:36.777 --> 01:12:38.290
1107
01:12:38.290 --> 01:12:40.440 line:15%
is at this point regarded as a fugitive
1108
01:12:40.440 --> 01:12:42.120 line:15%
from justice, is that correct?
1109
01:12:42.120 --> 01:12:44.103 line:15%
1110
01:12:44.103 --> 01:12:45.580 line:15%
that he\'s got bodyguards,
1111
01:12:45.580 --> 01:12:47.518
so even those bodyguards now you know
1112
01:12:47.518 --> 01:12:49.685
they are breaking the law.
1113
01:12:54.337 --> 01:12:55.420
1114
01:12:57.497 --> 01:12:58.895
How you doing sir?
1115
01:12:58.895 --> 01:13:00.138
1116
01:13:00.138 --> 01:13:02.471
1117
01:13:03.900 --> 01:13:05.134
1118
01:13:05.134 --> 01:13:05.967
1119
01:13:05.967 --> 01:13:07.760
1120
01:13:07.760 --> 01:13:10.700
1121
01:13:10.700 --> 01:13:15.700
1122
01:13:15.750 --> 01:13:18.210
an apartment in the The Burj Khalifa.
1123
01:13:18.210 --> 01:13:19.820
1124
01:13:19.820 --> 01:13:23.050
1125
01:13:23.050 --> 01:13:25.340
on behalf of your father.
1126
01:13:25.340 --> 01:13:27.660
1127
01:13:27.660 --> 01:13:29.670
My father does not own any property
1128
01:13:29.670 --> 01:13:33.191
in this beautiful country, well, beautiful city,
1129
01:13:33.191 --> 01:13:34.274
should I say.
1130
01:13:36.550 --> 01:13:39.420
1131
01:13:39.420 --> 01:13:43.278
of these issues, perhaps you would allow me
1132
01:13:43.278 --> 01:13:46.483
a little bit of leniency in asking this question.
1133
01:13:48.200 --> 01:13:49.763
Mr. Zuma, are you corrupt?
1134
01:13:51.350 --> 01:13:52.823
1135
01:14:05.482 --> 01:14:06.630
1136
01:14:06.630 --> 01:14:08.400
to the Johannesburg Central Police station
1137
01:14:08.400 --> 01:14:10.260
this morning where he was processed before being
1138
01:14:10.260 --> 01:14:11.093
brought here.
1139
01:14:15.670 --> 01:14:19.170
1140
01:14:19.170 --> 01:14:23.500
in the end, locked up, following all these allegations,
1141
01:14:23.500 --> 01:14:26.880
going to prison for corruption,
1142
01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:29.233
does that cross your mind?
1143
01:14:31.160 --> 01:14:32.474
1144
01:14:32.474 --> 01:14:33.746
it\'s the first time it crosses,
1145
01:14:33.746 --> 01:14:34.613
so I don\'t know if you saw it crossing my mind
1146
01:14:34.613 --> 01:14:36.310
but, it\'s gone.
1147
01:14:36.310 --> 01:14:37.143
No.
1148
01:14:38.810 --> 01:14:41.767
1149
01:14:41.767 --> 01:14:42.600
Why, it just crossed now,
1150
01:14:42.600 --> 01:14:43.433
since you mentioned it now.
1151
01:14:43.433 --> 01:14:45.320
I actually saw it crossing and it\'s gone.
1152
01:14:49.105 --> 01:14:50.489
1153
01:14:50.489 --> 01:14:51.510
probably 20 minutes that he was in the court,
1154
01:14:51.510 --> 01:14:53.240
we found out that he\'s facing charges
1155
01:14:53.240 --> 01:14:56.200
of corruption as well as conspiracy to corruption.
1156
01:14:56.200 --> 01:14:57.900
The state did not oppose bail,
1157
01:14:57.900 --> 01:14:59.940
it was an agreement reached with the defense team,
1158
01:14:59.940 --> 01:15:02.103
he\'s also agreed to hand in his passport.
1159
01:15:04.377 --> 01:15:06.860
1160
01:15:19.229 --> 01:15:20.510
1161
01:15:20.510 --> 01:15:23.110
that have been developed relating to PFMA compliance
1162
01:15:24.430 --> 01:15:26.100
in Transnet specifically.
1163
01:15:26.100 --> 01:15:30.110 line:15%
five billion Rands going to Hong Kong
1164
01:15:30.110 --> 01:15:32.573 line:15%
for the locomotives, that\'s the robust processes?
1165
01:15:35.440 --> 01:15:37.790 line:15%
That\'s the free bonus, am I right?
1166
01:15:37.790 --> 01:15:39.793
To the Guptas and so on.
1167
01:15:40.730 --> 01:15:42.363
We\'ll call you back for that,
1168
01:15:43.510 --> 01:15:45.330
but if that\'s the robust process you\'re talking
1169
01:15:45.330 --> 01:15:48.923
about it\'s weaker than the blade of grass outside.
1170
01:15:49.960 --> 01:15:52.560
1171
01:15:52.560 --> 01:15:55.335
1172
01:15:55.335 --> 01:15:56.930
Am I right?
1173
01:15:56.930 --> 01:15:58.600
You just donated five billion Rands
1174
01:15:58.600 --> 01:16:00.590
of South Africa\'s public money.
1175
01:16:00.590 --> 01:16:02.703
1176
01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:05.040
1177
01:16:05.040 --> 01:16:07.010
all South Africans are aware.
1178
01:16:07.010 --> 01:16:08.660
At least we understand what your criteria
1179
01:16:08.660 --> 01:16:09.853
for robustness is.
1180
01:16:10.690 --> 01:16:15.690
Is self-preservation trumping conscious and ethics?
1181
01:16:16.770 --> 01:16:19.453
In other words you have to survive at any cost?
1182
01:16:22.680 --> 01:16:25.370
You don\'t feel any qualms about that?
1183
01:16:25.370 --> 01:16:28.090
You don\'t think you wanna change your tact?
1184
01:16:28.090 --> 01:16:29.960
You don\'t think you\'ve been poorly advised
1185
01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:31.740
with due respect to your lawyers.
1186
01:16:43.228 --> 01:16:44.061
1187
01:16:44.061 --> 01:16:46.600
it was such a long time coming.
1188
01:16:46.600 --> 01:16:49.110
But it felt so important at that point
1189
01:16:49.110 --> 01:16:52.390
to have a platform where the state itself could finally
1190
01:16:52.390 --> 01:16:54.450
come and confirm, you weren\'t crazy,
1191
01:16:54.450 --> 01:16:57.823
you guys had it right all along and here\'s the detail.
1192
01:17:01.700 --> 01:17:06.700
1193
01:17:08.340 --> 01:17:13.340
of the hearings of the judicial commission
1194
01:17:13.870 --> 01:17:18.053 line:15%
of inquiry into allegations of state capture,
1195
01:17:19.450 --> 01:17:22.960
corruption and fraud in the public sector
1196
01:17:22.960 --> 01:17:25.463
including organs of state.
1197
01:17:26.930 --> 01:17:29.760
1198
01:17:29.760 --> 01:17:31.840
not cooperate, if you don\'t cooperate
1199
01:17:31.840 --> 01:17:33.600
we\'re going to remove you.
1200
01:17:33.600 --> 01:17:36.550
So, they were using that real authority.
1201
01:17:36.550 --> 01:17:38.599
1202
01:17:38.599 --> 01:17:39.850
1203
01:17:39.850 --> 01:17:41.133
1204
01:17:44.609 --> 01:17:46.680
1205
01:17:46.680 --> 01:17:48.930
into the room and sat down.
1206
01:17:48.930 --> 01:17:51.210 line:15%
He said emphatically that I must become
1207
01:17:51.210 --> 01:17:52.110 line:15%
minister of finance
1208
01:17:52.110 --> 01:17:54.130 line:15%
because that is what we want.
1209
01:17:54.130 --> 01:17:56.920
He also said that if I worked with them,
1210
01:17:56.920 --> 01:17:59.080
I would become very rich.
1211
01:17:59.080 --> 01:18:02.333
And that he could immediately offer me 600 million.
1212
01:18:03.740 --> 01:18:05.730
1213
01:18:05.730 --> 01:18:08.450
as using a banking system as a laundromat
1214
01:18:08.450 --> 01:18:09.713
to wash dirty money.
1215
01:18:10.691 --> 01:18:12.750
Had you had occasion to raise these issues
1216
01:18:12.750 --> 01:18:13.743
with your clients?
1217
01:18:17.380 --> 01:18:18.213
1218
01:18:18.213 --> 01:18:20.110
I\'m unaware of...
1219
01:18:20.110 --> 01:18:21.650
I personally I\'m unaware
1220
01:18:21.650 --> 01:18:24.830
of interactions with those clients
1221
01:18:24.830 --> 01:18:27.580
in the context of saying we have this information
1222
01:18:27.580 --> 01:18:29.180 line:15%
which we wish to share with you.
1223
01:18:37.311 --> 01:18:41.520
1224
01:18:41.520 --> 01:18:43.723
1225
01:18:47.780 --> 01:18:52.780
I packed the amounts on many occasions myself.
1226
01:18:52.820 --> 01:18:53.970 line:15%
1227
01:18:54.900 --> 01:18:56.723 line:15%
1228
01:18:58.330 --> 01:19:00.120
Every single contract was tainted
1229
01:19:00.120 --> 01:19:02.140
with bribes and corruption.
1230
01:19:02.140 --> 01:19:03.740
1231
01:19:03.740 --> 01:19:05.242
OK.
1232
01:19:05.242 --> 01:19:07.500
That\'s bloody monopoly money.
1233
01:19:07.500 --> 01:19:08.930
1234
01:19:08.930 --> 01:19:11.920
1235
01:19:11.920 --> 01:19:13.550
1236
01:19:13.550 --> 01:19:16.230
he says number one: it\'s just monopoly money
1237
01:19:16.230 --> 01:19:19.180
so we can get the monopoly and the other phrase
1238
01:19:19.180 --> 01:19:22.910
was monopoly money because it\'s just playing money.
1239
01:19:22.910 --> 01:19:24.857
You playing with people.
1240
01:19:24.857 --> 01:19:26.980
1241
01:19:26.980 --> 01:19:29.930
1242
01:19:29.930 --> 01:19:32.760
a station for what I believe was a mafia like
1243
01:19:32.760 --> 01:19:35.460
operation for setting up a propaganda station
1244
01:19:35.460 --> 01:19:38.100
which I did not want to in the first place.
1245
01:19:38.100 --> 01:19:41.760
I\'d never been as scared as that in my entire life.
1246
01:19:41.760 --> 01:19:43.650
And believe me I\'ve covered civil war,
1247
01:19:43.650 --> 01:19:48.247
I\'ve covered wars and riots but those last few
1248
01:19:48.247 --> 01:19:50.960
days when I was in South Africa were the most
1249
01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:52.500
scary in my life.
1250
01:19:52.500 --> 01:19:54.630
I actually thought that I would die,
1251
01:19:54.630 --> 01:19:56.480
that I would not see my family again.
1252
01:19:57.340 --> 01:19:58.470
1253
01:19:58.470 --> 01:20:00.970
Mr. Gupta repeated that they had information
1254
01:20:00.970 --> 01:20:03.424
on me and if I suggested that the meeting
1255
01:20:03.424 --> 01:20:05.473
had occurred, they would kill me.
1256
01:20:08.387 --> 01:20:10.517
He said that I quote, \"You must understand
1257
01:20:10.517 --> 01:20:13.347
\"that we are in control of everything.\"
1258
01:20:17.570 --> 01:20:20.490
1259
01:20:22.360 --> 01:20:25.210
and now, the next president who comes
1260
01:20:25.210 --> 01:20:29.787
is going to inherit an empty office in terms of authority.
1261
01:20:38.908 --> 01:20:40.080
1262
01:20:40.080 --> 01:20:42.010
finally was going to come and testify
1263
01:20:42.010 --> 01:20:44.090
at the Zondo Commission \'cause we really thought it
1264
01:20:44.090 --> 01:20:46.210
would be this opportunity to kind
1265
01:20:46.210 --> 01:20:48.290
of grill him about every scandal
1266
01:20:48.290 --> 01:20:51.290
that he had put us through as a country for the past decade.
1267
01:20:59.659 --> 01:21:03.860
1268
01:21:03.860 --> 01:21:05.890
1269
01:21:05.890 --> 01:21:07.910
it was about seeing him being defiant
1270
01:21:07.910 --> 01:21:09.703
in the face of those allegations.
1271
01:21:10.715 --> 01:21:12.368
1272
01:21:12.368 --> 01:21:14.147
1273
01:21:14.147 --> 01:21:15.970
you are going to give, will be the truth,
1274
01:21:15.970 --> 01:21:17.610
the whole truth and nothing else
1275
01:21:17.610 --> 01:21:20.380
but the truth, if so, please raise your right hand
1276
01:21:20.380 --> 01:21:21.900
and say so help me God.
1277
01:21:21.900 --> 01:21:23.427
1278
01:21:23.427 --> 01:21:26.600
1279
01:21:26.600 --> 01:21:30.850
that before any questions can be put to you,
1280
01:21:30.850 --> 01:21:34.750
you\'d like to state your side of the story.
1281
01:21:34.750 --> 01:21:37.610
This is the opportunity that I am giving
1282
01:21:37.610 --> 01:21:40.180
you to do so before any questions
1283
01:21:40.180 --> 01:21:41.327
can be put to you.
1284
01:21:43.720 --> 01:21:48.160
1285
01:21:48.160 --> 01:21:52.757
organizations that met to discuss me
1286
01:21:52.757 --> 01:21:57.420
and had a plan to begin a process
1287
01:21:58.630 --> 01:22:02.090
of character assassination of Zuma.
1288
01:22:02.090 --> 01:22:03.730
That\'s the beginning of the process
1289
01:22:03.730 --> 01:22:05.623
that has put me where I am today.
1290
01:22:08.080 --> 01:22:12.590
1291
01:22:12.590 --> 01:22:16.340
capture was nothing but part of this plot
1292
01:22:17.210 --> 01:22:20.490
that had been continuing for decades
1293
01:22:20.490 --> 01:22:22.063
to get him out of power.
1294
01:22:24.760 --> 01:22:28.200
1295
01:22:28.200 --> 01:22:33.200
he did here, saying that I have auctioned the country.
1296
01:22:33.380 --> 01:22:36.433
1297
01:22:39.520 --> 01:22:41.270
1298
01:22:48.610 --> 01:22:51.337
He was recruited when he was a student in Lesotho
1299
01:22:52.230 --> 01:22:53.463
to be a spy.
1300
01:23:01.430 --> 01:23:03.840
1301
01:23:03.840 --> 01:23:05.550
1302
01:23:05.550 --> 01:23:07.400
this doesn\'t work in the same way.
1303
01:23:07.400 --> 01:23:09.770
And so what Zuma was really able to do
1304
01:23:09.770 --> 01:23:12.760
was to come there and spin another story,
1305
01:23:12.760 --> 01:23:16.133
spin another alternative universe.
1306
01:23:16.133 --> 01:23:18.330
I mean, I wanna say the facts just flew out
1307
01:23:18.330 --> 01:23:19.230
the window, but the facts
1308
01:23:19.230 --> 01:23:20.880
weren\'t even there to begin with.
1309
01:23:24.380 --> 01:23:29.380
1310
01:23:29.730 --> 01:23:34.383
he did, government support in The New Age Project?
1311
01:23:35.870 --> 01:23:38.097
1312
01:23:38.097 --> 01:23:40.880
1313
01:23:42.370 --> 01:23:45.183
1314
01:23:52.030 --> 01:23:53.975
I\'m not sure, I don\'t--
1315
01:23:53.975 --> 01:23:55.431
1316
01:23:55.431 --> 01:23:57.163
1317
01:24:03.890 --> 01:24:05.300
1318
01:24:05.300 --> 01:24:09.430
we have a duty to raise concerns
1319
01:24:11.110 --> 01:24:14.640
when we see a development
1320
01:24:14.640 --> 01:24:18.320
in the manner in which our client is being cross-examined.
1321
01:24:18.320 --> 01:24:20.980
1322
01:24:20.980 --> 01:24:23.310
he had not done anything wrong, do you know anything
1323
01:24:23.310 --> 01:24:24.363
about that statement?
1324
01:24:26.700 --> 01:24:27.533
1325
01:24:29.920 --> 01:24:31.760
1326
01:24:31.760 --> 01:24:34.461
really check whether your process
1327
01:24:34.461 --> 01:24:37.400
has not become a political process,
1328
01:24:37.400 --> 01:24:39.780
where the left hand does not know what the right
1329
01:24:39.780 --> 01:24:43.163
hand is doing.
1330
01:24:47.930 --> 01:24:49.520
1331
01:24:50.360 --> 01:24:52.508
that we will take no further part
1332
01:24:52.508 --> 01:24:53.601
in these proceedings.
1333
01:24:53.601 --> 01:24:54.684
1334
01:25:45.509 --> 01:25:47.443
1335
01:25:47.443 --> 01:25:48.276
Viva!
1336
01:25:54.462 --> 01:25:58.712
1337
01:26:01.316 --> 01:26:03.027
Enough is enough.
1338
01:26:08.540 --> 01:26:10.103
One by one.
1339
01:26:19.530 --> 01:26:23.890
1340
01:26:25.830 --> 01:26:29.060
They estimate that it\'s close to a trillion
1341
01:26:29.060 --> 01:26:33.103
that the whole state capture debacle cost the country.
1342
01:26:35.562 --> 01:26:39.150
A country that has got the highest unemployment rate,
1343
01:26:39.150 --> 01:26:43.213
the highest rate of people who live in poverty.
1344
01:26:44.790 --> 01:26:46.890
A trillion could have changed their lives.
1345
01:26:58.596 --> 01:27:01.310
1346
01:27:01.310 --> 01:27:05.560
conditions of poverty, not having a job,
1347
01:27:05.560 --> 01:27:08.250
is that those are forms of structural violence
1348
01:27:08.250 --> 01:27:12.160
that translate into traumatized individual
1349
01:27:12.160 --> 01:27:13.928
members of our society.
1350
01:27:13.928 --> 01:27:16.350
1351
01:27:16.350 --> 01:27:20.228
one to asking the question, what is the point?
1352
01:27:20.228 --> 01:27:21.728
1353
01:27:26.360 --> 01:27:28.270
1354
01:27:28.270 --> 01:27:29.670
some of the multi-nationals,
1355
01:27:30.730 --> 01:27:32.840
all we\'ve really gotten so far
1356
01:27:32.840 --> 01:27:35.290
is their controlled spin.
1357
01:27:35.290 --> 01:27:37.240
What we really need is for them
1358
01:27:37.240 --> 01:27:40.930
to be brought under oath and interrogated properly
1359
01:27:40.930 --> 01:27:43.063
about some of the answers that they\'ve given.
1360
01:27:44.490 --> 01:27:49.350
1361
01:27:49.350 --> 01:27:52.520
those that we put in power should be held
1362
01:27:52.520 --> 01:27:54.610
accountable by any means
1363
01:27:54.610 --> 01:27:56.560
and we should be very critical of them.
1364
01:27:58.570 --> 01:28:00.610
1365
01:28:00.610 --> 01:28:03.320
everywhere, but in the last few years I think
1366
01:28:03.320 --> 01:28:05.423
we\'ve really kind of felt our importance.
1367
01:28:06.420 --> 01:28:08.890
We\'ve realized how important it is to have
1368
01:28:08.890 --> 01:28:10.940
really thorough investigative journalism.
1369
01:28:12.750 --> 01:28:14.530
It was one of the few things that,
1370
01:28:14.530 --> 01:28:17.280
that held democracy together,
1371
01:28:17.280 --> 01:28:20.870
until the other parts of the state could
1372
01:28:20.870 --> 01:28:22.810
be uncaptured, could recover.
