WEBVTT

00:00:23.854 --> 00:00:26.162
Bobby is much better now.

00:00:27.122 --> 00:00:31.364
As for the garden, I´m still
thinking about a gardener.

00:00:35.190 --> 00:00:38.599
This morning Nico
asked about you.

00:00:43.435 --> 00:00:46.534
I could also see you
as something distant, you know.

00:00:46.912 --> 00:00:48.312
Something unreal.

00:00:48.734 --> 00:00:50.534
But you don´t care about it,
of course.

00:00:51.684 --> 00:00:53.602
I could be very real
if you want me to.

00:00:54.667 --> 00:00:56.600
Both of us could.

00:00:57.520 --> 00:00:59.441
Sometimes I think
you would like that.

00:00:59.588 --> 00:01:01.478
But every time I want
to hug you...

00:01:04.067 --> 00:01:05.933
What would happen then?

00:01:15.667 --> 00:01:17.467
What would happen then?

00:01:31.567 --> 00:01:33.222
Mario!

00:01:45.100 --> 00:01:50.207
Please, forgive my continuous
meddling in the field of image.

00:01:50.787 --> 00:01:56.502
ENLIGHTENED LETTERS

00:01:58.339 --> 00:02:02.037
Usually, I try to match exactly
what you have done.

00:02:02.600 --> 00:02:10.506
Other times, I have to make up
a situation or an image...

00:02:15.226 --> 00:02:19.475
This is the sound of ice
in a glass filled with

00:02:19.631 --> 00:02:23.261
a mature rum
that I brought from Havana.

00:02:23.518 --> 00:02:26.297
It really helps when I have
to work with Circe.

00:02:26.367 --> 00:02:29.700
Damn it! These dialogues
are a hell of a lot of work,

00:02:29.792 --> 00:02:32.489
but at the same time,
they are fascinating.

00:02:32.619 --> 00:02:35.407
Last night I heard a good joke:

00:02:35.784 --> 00:02:40.900
A new shaving blade
is on the market.

00:02:41.064 --> 00:02:43.394
What is the brand slogan?

00:02:44.706 --> 00:02:49.272
“You won´t need soap or water,
your tears will be enough.”

00:02:50.614 --> 00:02:52.686
From my window I can see
the patio of my house.

00:02:52.733 --> 00:02:55.777
Aurora has just arrived
with a bunch of flowers

00:02:55.933 --> 00:02:59.304
on one hand,
on the other hand the newspaper

00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.510
and half a baguette.

00:03:02.345 --> 00:03:04.530
This means we will be
having lunch soon.

00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:09.634
Listen, Manuel.
I got myself into a mess here.

00:03:09.675 --> 00:03:15.384
On this part of scene 16...


00:03:15.409 --> 00:03:17.409
I would include a written legend...

00:03:19.200 --> 00:03:21.133
I will tell you
which phrase, of course.

00:03:21.325 --> 00:03:27.188
Sometime after, this legend
would disappear and be replaced

00:03:27.315 --> 00:03:30.560
by a voice that would
end the phrase.

00:03:35.987 --> 00:03:40.027
Having found the literature
of Julio Cortázar,

00:03:40.067 --> 00:03:44.506
an unknown writer
in the 50s and 60s,

00:03:44.700 --> 00:03:48.886
I discovered that Cortázar was
the writer I wished I had been,

00:03:49.100 --> 00:03:52.519
and that film making
was a wonderful way

00:03:52.633 --> 00:03:55.608
of plagiarizing the writer
without sinning.

00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:58.918
Taking to the movies what
I would have liked to write.

00:03:59.100 --> 00:04:03.789
Once, Cortázar returned
the compliment and told me

00:04:03.833 --> 00:04:06.289
that the movies I made
where the ones

00:04:06.433 --> 00:04:09.623
he would have made
had he been a film director.

00:04:10.115 --> 00:04:13.960
So, neither of us
was happy with what we were

00:04:14.133 --> 00:04:15.855
and wished we were
the other one.

00:04:15.964 --> 00:04:19.452
So, that is the Borgean reality
of my relationship

00:04:19.533 --> 00:04:23.327
with Cortázar, from whom
I filmed four books

00:04:23.367 --> 00:04:24.967
in three movies.

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Manuel, Manuel, what I´m about
to tell you from now

00:04:40.133 --> 00:04:44.804
till the end of our chat
is a bit retrospective.

00:04:44.925 --> 00:04:49.752
After several days,
your letter has arrived.

00:04:51.133 --> 00:04:54.179
I answered part of it
and sent it by express mail

00:04:54.267 --> 00:04:55.844
in the afternoon.

00:04:56.016 --> 00:04:58.867
So, by the time you hear
my voice on this tape

00:04:59.200 --> 00:05:01.900
you will have already heard
about all these details.

00:05:02.021 --> 00:05:04.064
The letters were
an inconvenience.

00:05:04.200 --> 00:05:06.469
They were sent by mail,
all of them in handwriting.

00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:09.907
A few letters were typed,
you know.

00:05:10.259 --> 00:05:13.859
He sent them by plane
and the letters arrived

00:05:14.102 --> 00:05:16.724
15 days later.

00:05:16.867 --> 00:05:19.386
Conversations got mixed up.

00:05:19.933 --> 00:05:23.747
Sometimes he talked about a
letter we had not received yet.

00:05:24.059 --> 00:05:25.896
It was a mess.

00:05:26.103 --> 00:05:30.932
I guess there were problems
with our mailing service here.

00:05:31.467 --> 00:05:34.156
Friday, October 6th, 1965.

00:05:34.200 --> 00:05:37.654
\"Dear Ponchi, María Marta
and Manuel: I´m glad my niece

00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:40.768
came to this world several days
before the due date;

00:05:40.867 --> 00:05:43.665
that shows her energetic
and determined personality.\"

00:05:43.933 --> 00:05:46.776
\"I predict it: in the future,
while her classmates

00:05:46.867 --> 00:05:49.658
are solving second grade equations,

00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:53.928
she will be climbing trees
and examining bird nests.\"

00:05:54.033 --> 00:05:55.583
\"She will be a friend of the wind,

00:05:55.669 --> 00:05:57.421
of untied hair, of abandoned dogs,

00:05:57.467 --> 00:06:00.146
of books with no cover
and tough boys.\"

00:06:00.576 --> 00:06:03.180
\"With all those things and a bit
of luck, she will be happy.\"

00:06:03.253 --> 00:06:05.050
\" I, her uncle, touch her
with this magic wand

00:06:05.085 --> 00:06:06.619
and foretell this.\"

00:06:07.100 --> 00:06:09.014
My name is Ponchi Mopurgo.

00:06:09.067 --> 00:06:14.204
I am a set designer
and Manuel´s wife.

00:06:14.830 --> 00:06:21.179
Sometimes, he says he married me to save
on production expenses.

00:06:22.654 --> 00:06:27.002
I married a stage designer
whose father was a musician.

00:06:27.100 --> 00:06:33.510
In this way, a great part of the
expenses were covered by my marriage.

00:06:34.033 --> 00:06:38.290
Manuel, I think I will have
the tape recorder nearby,

00:06:38.533 --> 00:06:41.206
and tell you some things
during the breaks

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or even during work.

00:06:43.333 --> 00:06:47.004
First of all, and I think
this is very important,

00:06:47.246 --> 00:06:50.486
if you read the dialogues
with your eyes only,

00:06:50.604 --> 00:06:54.318
without using your voice,
not even mentally...

00:06:54.424 --> 00:06:58.660
This was the only recorded
letter he wrote to me.

00:06:59.328 --> 00:07:06.017
He wanted me to know
the ideas he came up with

00:07:06.134 --> 00:07:08.470
while writing the dialogues
of Circe.

00:07:08.724 --> 00:07:12.812
He left Argentina in the 50s,


00:07:13.007 --> 00:07:16.271
not precisely for political reasons.

00:07:16.433 --> 00:07:20.602
He left because his political
ideas were different.

00:07:20.967 --> 00:07:23.466
He was not persecuted,
not at all.

00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:26.515
But he could not return
to his country,

00:07:26.648 --> 00:07:31.095
coming back was very difficult
at that time.

00:07:31.541 --> 00:07:36.355
In a letter, he said that
he was not afraid of bullets,

00:07:36.491 --> 00:07:39.326
he was afraid of being struck
by a speeding bullet.

00:07:40.913 --> 00:07:47.009
He had a particular way
of referring to important

00:07:47.312 --> 00:07:50.845
and not important things.

00:07:51.016 --> 00:07:56.492
He was a great observer
and it was funny that he made

00:07:56.753 --> 00:08:03.987
all that mise-en-scène
about the comments he made

00:08:04.133 --> 00:08:07.265
to the future film.

00:08:15.161 --> 00:08:18.129
Neither of us were nobody
at that time, you know.

00:08:18.418 --> 00:08:22.474
I am still nobody
but he was lucky to die

00:08:22.500 --> 00:08:27.796
and became an extraordinary
model of our literature.

00:08:28.026 --> 00:08:31.913
I have memories of things
that don´t exist anymore.

00:08:32.327 --> 00:08:34.756
As waiting for the critics review,

00:08:34.842 --> 00:08:37.538
in a bar on Lavalle street.

00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:40.970
Waiting for the reviews
which predicted the success

00:08:41.067 --> 00:08:42.600
or the failure of the film.

00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:46.282
Nothing was digital then
and movies premiered

00:08:46.367 --> 00:08:47.977
on Thursdays.

00:08:48.063 --> 00:08:52.765
I also remember spending times
of plenty and times of want.

00:08:53.124 --> 00:08:54.933
Losing apartments,
buying apartments,

00:08:55.133 --> 00:08:58.765
taking mortgages.
Having a car, not having a car.

00:08:59.400 --> 00:09:00.838
All our life was like that.

00:09:01.062 --> 00:09:03.762
If you want to make movies,
you should know that.

00:09:03.868 --> 00:09:05.922
At least, that’s the way it was
some years ago.

00:09:06.150 --> 00:09:08.599
There are many things
I write on the dialogue.

00:09:08.755 --> 00:09:11.929
I´m a bit afraid
of misunderstandings,

00:09:12.413 --> 00:09:18.599
of your disagreement about
things that are alright for me.

00:09:18.855 --> 00:09:22.975
The problem is that we are
so far away from each other.

00:09:35.188 --> 00:09:38.230
He always said that Hollywood
producers would come here

00:09:38.256 --> 00:09:41.956
to shoot one of his movies.
So, when they received a call

00:09:42.051 --> 00:09:43.718
from Buenos Aires, they said:

00:09:43.767 --> 00:09:47.724
“This is the first thing
we are going to do.”

00:09:47.868 --> 00:09:50.402
He was very enthusiastic about it.

00:09:51.259 --> 00:09:54.177
Afterwards we exchanged
very respectful letters

00:09:54.227 --> 00:09:58.895
where I asked him to give me
the rights of a movie...

00:09:59.645 --> 00:10:02.519
based on the story
“Letters to Mom”,

00:10:02.614 --> 00:10:04.381
from the book Bestiario...

00:10:09.063 --> 00:10:14.796
\"Paris, May 21st, 1961.
My dear friend Antín:\"

00:10:15.223 --> 00:10:18.487
“Yesterday, as I came back from
Vienna, I found your letter.\"

00:10:19.407 --> 00:10:21.737
\"I would like to tell you
how much I appreciate

00:10:21.827 --> 00:10:26.103
the responsibility and
sensitivity of your approach

00:10:26.151 --> 00:10:28.693
on the movie based
on my story.”

00:10:29.242 --> 00:10:30.964
He chose that story.

00:10:31.228 --> 00:10:33.996
Of course, he thought the title
was not appropriate

00:10:34.022 --> 00:10:35.189
for the movie.

00:10:35.400 --> 00:10:40.932
“Letters to Mom” sounds like
a light comedy, doesn´t it?

00:10:41.416 --> 00:10:45.975
Then, an adaptation was made
and Manuel decided

00:10:46.342 --> 00:10:49.542
to call it “Odd number.”

00:10:50.033 --> 00:10:54.428
Cortázar agreed, he thought
it was reasonable.

00:10:55.331 --> 00:11:01.243
Half of the movie took place in Paris,
where he lived.

00:11:01.904 --> 00:11:05.735
At a square very near Cortázar´s home,

00:11:06.024 --> 00:11:08.833
called Place Furstenberg,

00:11:09.077 --> 00:11:11.377
a wonderful place in Paris.

00:11:14.798 --> 00:11:18.381
I was on the floor,
doing a low angle shot,

00:11:18.582 --> 00:11:20.965
watching Maria Rosa Gallo
as she approached,

00:11:21.067 --> 00:11:26.088
walking by the art galleries
on that alley.

00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:30.862
Suddenly, there were
two feet by my side.

00:11:30.915 --> 00:11:33.731
I raised my head,
Cortázar was very tall.

00:11:34.004 --> 00:11:38.311
But from where I was looking,
he was gigantic.

00:11:39.859 --> 00:11:41.701
That was the first time we met.

00:11:41.842 --> 00:11:48.840
Since then, we started talking
about movies, about literature.

00:11:49.434 --> 00:11:52.765
Mother´s letters are very
important to Laura.

00:11:54.428 --> 00:11:56.988
She reads them over and over...

00:11:57.521 --> 00:12:00.157
Always expecting this,
this mistake...

00:12:00.854 --> 00:12:04.796
This “Nico” instead of “Victor”
which mother has made.

00:12:09.007 --> 00:12:11.509
And now that it´s done,

00:12:11.535 --> 00:12:14.448
I simply can´t show Laura the letter.

00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:17.892
It´s not a matter of Bobby
running away,

00:12:17.918 --> 00:12:20.277
or the cat next door
having mang,

00:12:20.484 --> 00:12:23.172
or the dressmaker´s boy
getting burnt.

00:12:23.736 --> 00:12:28.398
Now it´s Nico, and Laura
has never mentioned him.

00:12:28.921 --> 00:12:32.784
We have an unspoken agreement
never to mention him.

00:12:34.248 --> 00:12:37.245
Something has happened between
Laura, Nico and myself.

00:12:37.905 --> 00:12:40.143
Nico is banned among us...


00:12:40.886 --> 00:12:43.402
and now mother mentions him.

00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:47.193
It´s like getting him up
again between us.

00:12:52.239 --> 00:12:54.907
\" I´m not smugger than
any other writer,

00:12:55.473 --> 00:12:58.599
but it is natural that
the massacres often seen

00:12:58.625 --> 00:13:02.623
in films inspire my suspicion
and mistrust.\"

00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:06.307
\"All those feelings give ground
to a great relief now.\"

00:13:06.467 --> 00:13:08.250
\" I feel I´m in good hands.\"

00:13:08.807 --> 00:13:12.574
We went to Paris with
a small staff: the gaffer,

00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:16.068
who was also the cameraman,
the production manager,

00:13:16.225 --> 00:13:19.217
the producer, who was Manuel’s
partner at that time,

00:13:19.243 --> 00:13:20.429
Manuel and me.

00:13:29.586 --> 00:13:35.355
The first shot was done
at Saint Lazare train station,

00:13:35.550 --> 00:13:40.206
where the character of the film
was supposed to arrive.

00:13:40.389 --> 00:13:46.641
Julio and Aurora went
there to see the shooting.

00:13:47.299 --> 00:13:49.126
That was the place where we met.

00:13:49.297 --> 00:13:52.738
We built a nice, friendly relationship,

00:13:52.802 --> 00:13:55.172
we went to their home
to have dinner,

00:13:55.276 --> 00:13:57.602
she hanged out with me,

00:13:57.834 --> 00:14:04.066
it was a cool relationship,
let´s say.

00:14:04.192 --> 00:14:06.619
He had a great sense of humor,


00:14:07.123 --> 00:14:10.158
he was fun and very tall.

00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:12.465
Aurora was quite short.

00:14:13.048 --> 00:14:14.886
She was really short.

00:14:15.387 --> 00:14:20.609
The house was a vertical property,

00:14:20.814 --> 00:14:24.260
it had an entrance,
the stairs that led

00:14:24.372 --> 00:14:26.312
to the first floor, another staircase,

00:14:26.338 --> 00:14:28.432
and the upper floor,
with shed roof.

00:14:28.503 --> 00:14:31.415
The ceiling was like this,
the dining room was there.

00:14:31.739 --> 00:14:34.641
We laughed a lot because
he walked where

00:14:34.667 --> 00:14:37.179
the ceiling was higher,
and she walked

00:14:37.226 --> 00:14:39.974
where the ceiling was lower.

00:14:40.107 --> 00:14:42.684
Last week another letter
from mom arrived.

00:14:43.738 --> 00:14:46.362
I did not show it to you,
I tore it apart and threw it away.

00:14:46.469 --> 00:14:48.643
I wanted to take that away from us.

00:14:51.899 --> 00:14:53.333
What did it say?

00:14:56.665 --> 00:15:00.157
“This morning Nico
asked about you.”

00:15:01.610 --> 00:15:05.729
As you see, without
mentioning him, he was here.

00:15:07.599 --> 00:15:11.632
What have we done to keep him
alive two years after he died?

00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:16.929
We had a pleasing dialogue
with the actors and crew.

00:15:17.567 --> 00:15:20.373
I remember one of them
blamed me for being

00:15:20.417 --> 00:15:22.484
too nice with them.

00:15:23.028 --> 00:15:25.694
They were used to directors

00:15:25.757 --> 00:15:29.226
that gave indications
with great assertiveness.

00:15:29.633 --> 00:15:30.766
That was not my case

00:15:30.920 --> 00:15:33.294
because I´ve always
been very insecure.

00:15:33.802 --> 00:15:37.645
So, my assertiveness
had no sense at all.

00:15:38.067 --> 00:15:43.502
Manuel was so important for me
he was so amusing.

00:15:43.923 --> 00:15:48.074
Having lunch with him,
it was one of the most

00:15:48.193 --> 00:15:53.851
rewarding things in life,
because he has a sharp,

00:15:53.921 --> 00:15:57.908
intelligent, vital, youthful
sense of humor.

00:15:58.310 --> 00:15:59.934
Manuel is like Picasso,

00:15:59.965 --> 00:16:03.623
who said that when you are young
you are young for life.

00:16:18.073 --> 00:16:20.819
Dear Ponchi and Manuel:
“All our love, from Aurora and me,

00:16:21.122 --> 00:16:23.428

we wish you happiness and joy,

00:16:23.562 --> 00:16:26.967
now and forever, Julio.”

00:16:29.688 --> 00:16:31.711
When we finished “Odd Number”,

00:16:31.787 --> 00:16:34.163
he came to Buenos Aires
to visit his mother.

00:16:35.092 --> 00:16:36.725
We watched the movie.

00:16:36.920 --> 00:16:41.909
The film was first exhibited
in a lab called Alex,

00:16:42.528 --> 00:16:44.655
at Dragones Street, in Nuñez.

00:16:45.606 --> 00:16:48.608
We were alone in room 7
of the lab.

00:16:49.187 --> 00:16:53.390
There is a scene in the film,
where the oldest son,

00:16:53.540 --> 00:16:57.771
who is in love with his
youngest brother’s girlfriend,

00:16:58.125 --> 00:17:03.049
looks at his mother as she is
going up the stairs, and says...

00:17:03.595 --> 00:17:04.972
Mother...

00:17:06.764 --> 00:17:08.887
Laura is like you.


00:17:10.739 --> 00:17:12.371
Laura is your own self.

00:17:12.463 --> 00:17:14.413
Laura is your own self.

00:17:14.907 --> 00:17:18.030
At that moment, Cortázar put
his hand on my shoulder

00:17:18.224 --> 00:17:20.455
and told me:
“Buddy, I understood my story.”

00:17:20.898 --> 00:17:23.716
I never really believed
in those words.

00:17:23.742 --> 00:17:27.336
I think that...

00:17:28.725 --> 00:17:31.755
possibly, the cinematographic
interpretation,

00:17:32.169 --> 00:17:36.126
I mean, the graphic of written words,

00:17:36.516 --> 00:17:39.330
might help understand
certain things.

00:17:39.821 --> 00:17:45.474
But I think that he was not aware

00:17:45.686 --> 00:17:48.949
of what he had created.

00:17:49.064 --> 00:17:52.950
Dialogues should include banalities.

00:17:53.102 --> 00:17:54.780
The expressions said by ladies:

00:17:55.659 --> 00:17:58.573
“What a nice living room,
so tidy, such good taste.”

00:17:59.268 --> 00:18:00.744
In theory, those phrases
are disgusting,

00:18:00.791 --> 00:18:02.439
but in a film that is taking place in

00:18:02.474 --> 00:18:07.150
the neighborhood of Almagro,
such things have to be said.

00:18:07.486 --> 00:18:09.548
For example, in the film
“The Venerable Ones”,

00:18:09.648 --> 00:18:12.387
what has been torturing me ...

00:18:12.723 --> 00:18:18.149
is that a total of 15 situational
phrases, which wouldn´t have

00:18:18.196 --> 00:18:22.892
changed the development
of the plot,

00:18:23.058 --> 00:18:26.414
would have softened
the situation and worked

00:18:26.442 --> 00:18:30.698
as a bridge to help
people understand...

00:18:31.442 --> 00:18:35.775
When Cortázar and I watched
“The Venerable Ones”,

00:18:37.814 --> 00:18:40.255
as we were leaving the theatre,
in Cannes, he said:

00:18:40.281 --> 00:18:44.571
“Manuel, I have overlooked
many things.

00:18:45.919 --> 00:18:49.860
Have you written a novel,
your own novel about it?”

00:18:49.886 --> 00:18:51.004
Yes, I have.

00:18:51.058 --> 00:18:53.366
-Have you published it?
-No, I haven’t.

00:18:53.733 --> 00:18:57.942
I would like to read it,
because I think there are some

00:18:58.067 --> 00:19:03.220
bridges missing in the movie.

00:19:03.439 --> 00:19:07.781
Those were his exact words.
So, I told him:

00:19:07.841 --> 00:19:11.735
“As soon as I know of someone
travelling to Europe,

00:19:11.891 --> 00:19:14.267
I will send you
the original copy.”

00:19:14.812 --> 00:19:16.907
I don´t remember who it was,

00:19:16.933 --> 00:19:19.962
but somebody took Cortázar
the original copy.

00:19:20.226 --> 00:19:23.109
It was the third or fourth
movie I worked in

00:19:23.862 --> 00:19:25.170
as director of photography.

00:19:25.231 --> 00:19:30.095
It is one of my favorite films,
because of its photography,

00:19:30.213 --> 00:19:36.049
my work, the script, all of it.

00:19:36.238 --> 00:19:40.595
I think that Manuel´s style
was reflected on that movie.

00:20:20.321 --> 00:20:23.682
Yes, yes, now I remember.
It is one of these three.

00:20:24.556 --> 00:20:27.248
I made this movie 53 years ago.

00:20:28.732 --> 00:20:32.513
I think they were right there
and she was waiting

00:20:32.943 --> 00:20:36.715
on the stairs, and fell asleep.

00:20:37.979 --> 00:20:39.813
Dora!

00:20:42.167 --> 00:20:43.622
What has happened?

00:20:46.188 --> 00:20:47.833
Let´s go upstairs now.

00:20:49.001 --> 00:20:50.168
Tell me what happened.

00:20:52.060 --> 00:20:56.293
We should go up now.
They are wet, soaked.

00:20:56.543 --> 00:21:01.235
The movie takes place in the 60s.

00:21:01.367 --> 00:21:07.212
It is dated in times of the
French Nouvelle Vague.

00:21:07.861 --> 00:21:13.307
One thing I would say is that
any author, Marguerite Duras

00:21:13.354 --> 00:21:18.040
or Robbe Grillet, people that wrote
films at that time,

00:21:18.525 --> 00:21:21.180
would have been extremely envious

00:21:21.524 --> 00:21:24.925
if they had watched this movie,
and seen how it was done.

00:21:25.482 --> 00:21:27.920
The script, the story,
the dialogues, everything...

00:21:27.946 --> 00:21:33.353
It is a bit mannered,
a bit affected, just a bit.

00:21:34.193 --> 00:21:40.091
Time went by, months passed,
and he said nothing about

00:21:40.224 --> 00:21:44.103
the bridges and the stories
he had mentioned.

00:21:44.525 --> 00:21:49.482
One day he wrote a letter to me
admitting he had lost the novel.

00:21:49.719 --> 00:21:55.008
He was a translator at UNESCO,
in Vienna.

00:21:55.346 --> 00:21:56.480
When leaving the hotel


00:21:56.506 --> 00:22:00.438
he left the novel
there and it got lost.

00:22:01.154 --> 00:22:05.063
My novel, the original,
the only copy that ever existed.

00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:10.031
Some years later, a mutual friend

00:22:11.289 --> 00:22:15.247
brought me the original
copy of Rayuela.

00:22:15.611 --> 00:22:17.591
I had to take it to Paco Porrua,

00:22:17.617 --> 00:22:19.881
who was editor of
Sudamericana Publishing.

00:22:20.147 --> 00:22:25.403
When I received the novel,
I read it and told him:

00:22:25.451 --> 00:22:29.418
“Julio, now I should take
revenge for the novel you lost

00:22:29.528 --> 00:22:32.740
and take this to Sudamericana,
pretending it is mine.\"

00:22:33.442 --> 00:22:35.286
It would have been fair.

00:22:35.661 --> 00:22:37.668
But I am the first
reader of Rayuela.

00:22:38.292 --> 00:22:39.427
Rayuela is for me

00:22:39.494 --> 00:22:41.794
like the Don Quixote of the
Argentine literature.

00:22:42.255 --> 00:22:44.593
Writing dialogues for a movie
is a very strange thing.

00:22:44.675 --> 00:22:48.796
It is like driving a car blindfolded.

00:22:49.158 --> 00:22:54.423
I lack my own descriptions,
my own way of setting things.

00:23:07.489 --> 00:23:11.225
\"Your idea of filming Circe
fills me with a secret enthusiasm.\"

00:23:11.741 --> 00:23:14.107
\" The secret aspect
is debatable, as Aurora knows

00:23:14.169 --> 00:23:16.867
how excited I am
about this possibility.\"

00:23:17.171 --> 00:23:20.898
\"Of course, if you are still
interested in the idea,

00:23:21.494 --> 00:23:24.679
you can fully count on me.\"

00:23:26.427 --> 00:23:30.663
We adapted the film
Circe in Sestri Levante,

00:23:32.251 --> 00:23:35.551
during a festival where
The Venerable Ones was shown.

00:23:37.330 --> 00:23:43.332
In Villa Balbi Hotel’s garden,
in Sestri Levante,

00:23:43.387 --> 00:23:47.913
which still exists,
as I was there a few years ago,

00:23:49.436 --> 00:23:54.965
he sent me these comments
about those dialogues,

00:23:55.074 --> 00:23:59.881
about the script structure
we had built together.

00:24:00.342 --> 00:24:05.172
The comments on the dialogues
were in that audio tape.

00:24:05.289 --> 00:24:06.993
That was the only time, yes.

00:24:16.108 --> 00:24:18.736
“Forget about everything
and make the movie,

00:24:18.853 --> 00:24:22.270
the rest has no relevance.”

00:24:28.507 --> 00:24:31.108
I cannot advance in a dialogue
without imagining

00:24:31.178 --> 00:24:33.437
situations, movements.

00:24:33.579 --> 00:24:36.089
Without them, the dialogue
becomes completely empty,

00:24:36.120 --> 00:24:39.291
and you will not
be able to guide yourself.

00:24:39.382 --> 00:24:43.021
For example, Mario
and Delia have been talking.

00:24:43.242 --> 00:24:47.116
Suddenly, changing
the subject, she asks:

00:24:47.530 --> 00:24:49.398
Do you think the weather
will be nice tomorrow?

00:24:49.424 --> 00:24:50.775
Mario, exasperated, answers:

00:24:51.178 --> 00:24:52.435
Why are you
changing the subject?

00:24:52.482 --> 00:24:55.264
So then, she caresses
him and says:

00:24:55.331 --> 00:24:57.596
I was thinking about
the yacht ride,

00:24:58.118 --> 00:24:59.671
I have never been in a yacht.

00:25:00.764 --> 00:25:03.008
Those things are only
seen in movies.

00:25:03.334 --> 00:25:04.634
Is the river too deep?

00:25:04.688 --> 00:25:09.131
When I wrote that question,
I saw a parallel image,

00:25:09.238 --> 00:25:10.438
you will see it too.

00:25:10.624 --> 00:25:15.156
I imagined either a reference
to Hector drowning in that river,

00:25:15.211 --> 00:25:19.068
or a repetition of one
of the scenes where Mario

00:25:19.241 --> 00:25:23.539
goes out for a walk on the place
he committed suicide.

00:25:49.276 --> 00:25:51.625
“You will be the King”,
says Macbeth.

00:25:52.384 --> 00:25:58.331
You will be Teresa,
or Mario, or Delia in Circe.

00:25:58.674 --> 00:26:04.331
Take a risk and try to do it
and you will have a great result.

00:26:04.425 --> 00:26:09.139
That is the best way I have
to direct actors and actresses.

00:26:09.533 --> 00:26:13.051
Some directors,
way more important than me,

00:26:13.582 --> 00:26:16.151
think completely the opposite.

00:26:16.177 --> 00:26:19.995
Let’s say Bergman,
not to mention others.

00:26:20.378 --> 00:26:22.869
He mistreated his actresses
if they didn’t do

00:26:22.947 --> 00:26:25.813
what he indicated.

00:26:26.125 --> 00:26:32.265
Manuel was like a fantastic
baton, how he took the lead.

00:26:32.859 --> 00:26:36.085
He planned and made
films very nicely.

00:26:36.577 --> 00:26:38.767
How he directed the shots.

00:26:39.416 --> 00:26:46.615
With Manuel, I had the same
experience as the one I had

00:26:46.701 --> 00:26:51.300
with Torre Nilsson, when I was
very young, at the age of 16.

00:26:51.956 --> 00:26:57.931
He places the cameras where
the heart is, the same as Favio,

00:26:58.501 --> 00:27:00.893
they are mentors.

00:27:01.415 --> 00:27:05.224
They tell you: “I will
have the camera here,

00:27:05.466 --> 00:27:09.000
you can do this or that,
feel free,

00:27:09.454 --> 00:27:11.595
feel what you’re going through.”

00:27:11.877 --> 00:27:15.244
Those are powerful ways
of teaching cinema.

00:27:15.338 --> 00:27:17.408
And Manuel had them.

00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:21.435
In the relationship between
the author and the director,

00:27:21.497 --> 00:27:24.281
film making has this characteristic

00:27:24.437 --> 00:27:30.979
of being a bit invasive
and authoritarian.

00:27:31.329 --> 00:27:36.474
The director is like the king,
he does what he wants.

00:27:38.100 --> 00:27:42.127
I will never forget
some scenes of my life.

00:27:42.354 --> 00:27:48.425
When we had to shoot the scene
with cockroaches, in Circe.

00:27:50.481 --> 00:27:55.082
Every day,
when the filming day was over,

00:27:55.476 --> 00:27:59.611
the crew gathered
with the head of production,

00:27:59.767 --> 00:28:01.117
and everyone asked

00:28:01.143 --> 00:28:03.320
for the things they would
need the following day.

00:28:03.346 --> 00:28:05.804
I remember this
unforgettable dialogue:

00:28:06.727 --> 00:28:11.055
The head of production
said: “Sir”...

00:28:12.915 --> 00:28:15.088
Because we treated
one another formally,

00:28:15.752 --> 00:28:20.094
“Sir, How many cockroaches
will you need tomorrow?”

00:28:20.688 --> 00:28:24.385
I was shocked because
I didn’t know what to say.

00:28:24.455 --> 00:28:26.228
But didn’t want to
disappoint him,

00:28:26.338 --> 00:28:28.245
so I told him:“ Two dozen.”

00:28:29.378 --> 00:28:34.522
As he wouldn’t budge an inch,
he asked: “What color?”

00:28:50.165 --> 00:28:51.549
In Delia’s character,

00:28:51.657 --> 00:28:54.764
a continuous contrast
must be shown.

00:28:55.100 --> 00:28:57.715
You can suspect terrible
things about her,

00:28:57.741 --> 00:29:00.304
but, at the same time,
there has to be something

00:29:00.796 --> 00:29:02.298
to redeem her.

00:29:02.383 --> 00:29:05.855
Being a pretty actress or
having a nice voice

00:29:05.952 --> 00:29:07.685
is not enough.

00:29:09.706 --> 00:29:10.711
How delightful!

00:29:10.737 --> 00:29:13.042
There has to be a diabolic side,
but at the same time,

00:29:13.115 --> 00:29:16.952
there has to be a woman that...

00:29:17.162 --> 00:29:21.211
The audience might have the impression

00:29:21.259 --> 00:29:26.788
that this diabolic woman holds
some kind of protest

00:29:26.827 --> 00:29:28.625
against her own condition.

00:29:29.203 --> 00:29:32.396
We have to avoid all
manicheanism with Delia

00:29:32.435 --> 00:29:37.076
If we show her too dark,
the audience will lose interest.

00:29:37.178 --> 00:29:41.191
Nobody is interested in a film
where a character is guilty

00:29:41.217 --> 00:29:43.589
from the very beginning,
even though he doesn’t know

00:29:43.615 --> 00:29:46.114
what that person is guilty of.

00:29:46.735 --> 00:29:49.694
All my life, I will be
grateful to Manuel Antín

00:29:50.196 --> 00:29:51.602
for bringing me close to him.

00:29:51.646 --> 00:29:57.663
He gave me one of the greatest
compliments I’ve ever received.

00:29:58.421 --> 00:30:01.982
“Graciela Borges is
so pretty, so pretty!”

00:30:02.889 --> 00:30:07.866
The fact that he liked me
filled me with pride.

00:30:08.209 --> 00:30:10.158
He fell in love
with the actresses,

00:30:10.609 --> 00:30:13.022
in the same way I fell in love
with the characters.

00:30:13.065 --> 00:30:16.423
I am alive. I am neither
Hector nor Rolo.

00:30:17.220 --> 00:30:19.282
So, what are you?

00:30:20.478 --> 00:30:21.369
Mario.

00:30:21.411 --> 00:30:24.777
That is who you are,
I asked what you are.

00:30:26.702 --> 00:30:29.135
Delia, I wish you stopped
talking to me in that tone.

00:30:29.840 --> 00:30:32.619
Alberto Argibay and I
worked together a lot.

00:30:34.453 --> 00:30:37.773
He was such a nice,
special person,

00:30:38.208 --> 00:30:40.643
it was easy to fall in love
with him,

00:30:42.958 --> 00:30:45.944
you have to fall in love a bit
with the actors you work with.

00:30:46.499 --> 00:30:48.829
I am talking about sensuality, not sex,

00:30:49.050 --> 00:30:55.443
I am talking about love, heart,
wanting to hug one another,

00:30:56.052 --> 00:30:57.483
and sharing things.

00:30:57.702 --> 00:31:01.785
He was a very shy
and loving person,

00:31:03.621 --> 00:31:06.199
very protective of me.

00:31:07.085 --> 00:31:09.675
Alberto Argibay was
such a nice person.

00:31:10.167 --> 00:31:13.393
The house drawn by Aurora,
who is a specialist in blueprints,

00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:15.030

is the kind of house

00:31:15.100 --> 00:31:17.216
you can find in many
neighborhoods in Buenos Aires.

00:31:17.271 --> 00:31:21.150
Such a house could be very
well explored by the camera.

00:31:21.221 --> 00:31:24.199
I think it will have more
suggestion and power than

00:31:24.277 --> 00:31:29.924
a conventional detached house
or petit hotel.

00:31:29.956 --> 00:31:33.095
European people are less
interested in them.

00:31:35.618 --> 00:31:39.654
Aurora has just arrived
from the museums.

00:31:40.332 --> 00:31:43.890
Just one museum, not many museums.

00:31:44.242 --> 00:31:47.005
When you are a cultured
person, my dear.

00:31:47.333 --> 00:31:50.702
I have heard all the things that
Julio Cortázar y Obes has told you

00:31:50.748 --> 00:31:53.561
about the house´s decoration.

00:31:53.686 --> 00:31:55.430
If you’d like to hear my opinion...

00:31:55.813 --> 00:32:02.756
The house was in Belgrano R
neighborhood, on Cramer Street.

00:32:02.834 --> 00:32:08.431
Most interior scenes
were shot there.

00:32:08.626 --> 00:32:14.749
There was an outdoor scene
with a garden and a hallway.

00:32:14.795 --> 00:32:18.532
But that famous hallway
did not belong to the house.

00:32:18.609 --> 00:32:22.442
As that house had no hallway,
those scenes were shot

00:32:22.520 --> 00:32:25.806
in Palermo, on Darregueira Street,

00:32:25.832 --> 00:32:29.576
in a house that had a fence,
an entrance with a garden

00:32:29.638 --> 00:32:32.999
and a hallway, and a style
which was similar

00:32:33.047 --> 00:32:34.447
to the other one.

00:32:38.100 --> 00:32:45.134
I’ve never insisted on having
a specific music or place.

00:32:45.243 --> 00:32:51.315
Places were chosen by the stage
designer and the music...

00:32:51.791 --> 00:32:54.477
then, I was in charge of
the mess of editing,

00:32:55.066 --> 00:32:59.471
which was my revenge.
My father in law was mad at me

00:32:59.615 --> 00:33:02.603
because I cut where
I was not supposed to,

00:33:02.837 --> 00:33:05.188
but those were real decisions.

00:33:06.394 --> 00:33:07.897
You are not
to blame with anything

00:33:08.031 --> 00:33:09.931
neither with Rolo
nor with Hector.

00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:15.113
You should not worry that much,

00:33:15.421 --> 00:33:17.171
you heard what your
father said today.

00:33:17.779 --> 00:33:21.165
It could happen to anyone,
I had once a friend

00:33:21.272 --> 00:33:22.838
called Suárez that...

00:33:23.580 --> 00:33:25.207
I have already told you that,
haven’t I?

00:33:26.941 --> 00:33:29.428
The one whose girlfriend died
the day before the wedding.

00:33:29.768 --> 00:33:30.860
I liked that rabbit.

00:33:31.349 --> 00:33:32.968
We could have kept him
in the backyard

00:33:33.037 --> 00:33:34.301
and would not be arguing now.

00:33:34.505 --> 00:33:36.899
You are asking me for a miracle,
Delia. What can I do?

00:33:37.681 --> 00:33:41.371
It was sold this morning.
There was another one,

00:33:42.244 --> 00:33:44.268
but his eyes were not red,
as you wanted.

00:33:44.952 --> 00:33:46.319
I liked the white one.

00:33:47.704 --> 00:33:51.666
Well, they promised they would
have another one soon.

00:33:53.080 --> 00:33:55.406
You know I always try to please you.

00:33:59.674 --> 00:34:02.970
Anyway, every day I feel
more and more lonely.

00:34:03.049 --> 00:34:06.827
Movies can improve considerably
with the music.

00:34:06.951 --> 00:34:08.992
In Circe, my father,
who was a musician,

00:34:09.062 --> 00:34:10.937
did the music.

00:34:11.354 --> 00:34:15.529
He was a cellist
in the beginning,

00:34:16.086 --> 00:34:18.920
but he also worked as
an orchestra director

00:34:19.100 --> 00:34:21.771
and as a professor
in La Plata University

00:34:22.136 --> 00:34:26.562
and Buenos Aires Conservatory.

00:34:44.968 --> 00:34:48.077
My father in law
had very old instruments.

00:34:48.834 --> 00:34:57.716
One of them was a unique model
of violoncello,

00:34:58.593 --> 00:35:01.213
called “the cello of forgiveness”
because the person who

00:35:01.291 --> 00:35:08.125
had made that instrument
was to be executed or hanged

00:35:08.156 --> 00:35:10.508
during the French Revolution,
but was pardoned

00:35:10.797 --> 00:35:13.867
for having created
such a wonderful instrument.

00:35:14.167 --> 00:35:16.352
Hence the name.

00:35:19.531 --> 00:35:23.306
I think that Hector and Rolo’s
presence should be of a more

00:35:23.339 --> 00:35:27.349
obsessive nature, more spectral
in the final sequence.

00:35:27.673 --> 00:35:29.798
The three of them,
two dead persons and one living

00:35:29.837 --> 00:35:31.971
should form a kind of
horrible dance where

00:35:31.999 --> 00:35:36.864
the dead will try
to warn Mario, to save him,

00:35:36.895 --> 00:35:39.231
while Delia keeps pushing him
to sacrifice.

00:35:39.567 --> 00:35:47.047
At that time, when movies
were told in a traditional way,

00:35:47.128 --> 00:35:53.572
literature created the style of a movie.

00:35:54.321 --> 00:35:58.541
Then I rubbed it on myself.

00:35:58.581 --> 00:36:01.480
Afterwards, throughout
my movies,

00:36:01.512 --> 00:36:06.462
except for some
duds that were there,

00:36:07.962 --> 00:36:12.218
I could develop my
own way of telling a story,

00:36:12.244 --> 00:36:18.538
which I explained as the way
the human mind

00:36:18.968 --> 00:36:24.569
recalls everything,
because no one is able

00:36:24.595 --> 00:36:28.776
to remember the story of their life
in an organized way.

00:36:29.394 --> 00:36:34.275
The ideal film viewer
is the one who can

00:36:34.301 --> 00:36:36.883
put together the puzzle
told by the director

00:36:37.055 --> 00:36:39.670
and the author of the movie.

00:36:40.467 --> 00:36:43.432
\"I can see that you are eager
to talk about my point of view

00:36:43.458 --> 00:36:46.573
on the connection between
literature and films.

00:36:47.001 --> 00:36:49.130
It’s very simple.
You come to Berlin

00:36:49.232 --> 00:36:50.997
and we can talk about it
until we drop.

00:36:51.380 --> 00:36:55.971
I hope to hear from you soon,
crossing my fingers so that

00:36:56.261 --> 00:37:00.113
everything, including of course
the premiere of Circe in Buenos Aires,

00:37:00.371 --> 00:37:04.124
turns out exactly as you wish.

00:37:04.618 --> 00:37:08.823
All our love
for both of you, Julio.\"

00:37:10.847 --> 00:37:16.031
The mirror is a way
of reflecting on oneself.

00:37:16.116 --> 00:37:20.525
Reflection is a different
and alien reality,

00:37:20.564 --> 00:37:24.202
and at the same time,
it is equivalent to oneself

00:37:24.474 --> 00:37:28.731
and a way of holding
a dialogue with yourself.

00:37:29.786 --> 00:37:37.195
I remember that he approached
the mirror, it was like a kiss.

00:37:39.703 --> 00:37:44.346
One of the most subtle,
alluring and beautiful images

00:37:44.416 --> 00:37:47.884
I’ve ever seen in Manuel’s
movies and in films in general.

00:37:48.517 --> 00:37:51.532
I’m not talking about me,
it’s the arrangement of scenes,

00:37:51.577 --> 00:37:52.843
all of it.

00:37:54.414 --> 00:37:58.171
Some directors shoot
with a camera that loves you,

00:37:58.538 --> 00:37:59.966
and you can feel it.

00:38:00.412 --> 00:38:06.796
Others, are more neutral,
they just don’t fall in love with you.

00:38:07.758 --> 00:38:11.223
I feel that Manuel
was in love with me,

00:38:11.325 --> 00:38:13.379
with Ponchi’s permission,
because I mean it

00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:15.842
in the most pure
and wonderful way.

00:38:15.868 --> 00:38:17.998
Because I was in love
with him too.

00:38:19.491 --> 00:38:21.923
It was censored,
I defended it,

00:38:21.993 --> 00:38:24.516
it took me a year
to premiere the film.

00:38:24.626 --> 00:38:29.217
I tried to make the censor
realize that the shamefulness

00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.306
was in his head, not in the movie.

00:38:31.743 --> 00:38:34.754
It was what he believed
the image reflected.

00:38:34.793 --> 00:38:37.741
The image did not show
anything punishable.

00:38:37.952 --> 00:38:40.393
I don’t know what happened
to the censor,

00:38:40.487 --> 00:38:42.794
we will never know.

00:38:43.461 --> 00:38:46.362
The wonderful thing
about it is the resistance.

00:38:46.620 --> 00:38:50.072
Films are resistance,
and Manuel showed

00:38:50.174 --> 00:38:53.631
a full commitment to his
films, his beliefs,

00:38:54.349 --> 00:38:58.609
to Julio Cortázar,
to this character.

00:38:58.664 --> 00:39:00.422
The scene of the mirror
was crucial,

00:39:00.448 --> 00:39:03.015
the way she looked at
the mirror and loved herself,

00:39:03.074 --> 00:39:06.260
in such a strange, special
and sensual way.

00:39:07.081 --> 00:39:09.555
Actually, only my back
could be seen,

00:39:09.742 --> 00:39:16.904
but I wanted to cover my chest,
my whole body, and Manuel

00:39:17.263 --> 00:39:21.773
made it so simple and clean,
he was brilliant.

00:39:22.804 --> 00:39:25.257
You can feel with your head
or with your heart,

00:39:25.414 --> 00:39:28.415
that is eroticism,
it’s not pornography,

00:39:28.547 --> 00:39:35.314
it is an image that awakens
a special feeling.

00:39:36.064 --> 00:39:38.726
I’ve always been surprised
by critics’ reviews,

00:39:39.084 --> 00:39:42.696
their interpretation of the films.

00:39:42.907 --> 00:39:47.518
One day, in a press conference,
a critic told me something

00:39:47.707 --> 00:39:49.533
I would have never imagined.

00:39:49.611 --> 00:39:54.904
He said: “You have described
Argentina, a beautiful country

00:39:55.270 --> 00:39:58.095
that self-satisfies itself,
not caring about

00:39:58.283 --> 00:39:59.713
the outside world.”


00:40:00.205 --> 00:40:05.222
It’s a bit like Circe’s character,
whose boyfriends

00:40:05.287 --> 00:40:10.221
gradually disappeared.

00:40:15.592 --> 00:40:19.993
Now, let`s talk about something
essential: the chocolate.

00:40:20.430 --> 00:40:25.535
I’ve been thinking a lot
and discussed it with Aurora.

00:40:25.738 --> 00:40:32.137
Without taking any strength
or horror to the movie,

00:40:32.574 --> 00:40:37.995
we could delete the vision of the nasty
chocolate with the cockroach.

00:40:38.460 --> 00:40:42.161

We can remove it if we add

00:40:42.187 --> 00:40:44.296
two or three previous
references, for example,

00:40:44.322 --> 00:40:46.544
the moment when the light
is turned on in the kitchen

00:40:46.576 --> 00:40:48.666
and the cockroaches
are running away.

00:40:49.561 --> 00:40:53.275
In the movie, there have been
many references about

00:40:53.329 --> 00:40:57.144
the malice of those chocolates.


00:40:57.487 --> 00:40:59.926
On the final scene,

00:40:59.952 --> 00:41:07.418
I can imagine Delia approaching,
as if it were a Greek tragedy.

00:41:21.053 --> 00:41:22.953
Delia, what is this bonbon made of?

00:41:31.343 --> 00:41:36.094
I completed scene 31
and from then on,

00:41:36.274 --> 00:41:41.005
I couldn’t make the dialogues
based on your script.

00:41:41.341 --> 00:41:45.437
Something didn’t work,
neither psychologically

00:41:45.492 --> 00:41:49.379
nor historically, I mean,
within the narrative time.

00:41:49.410 --> 00:41:51.985
I couldn`t see,
I was completely blind,

00:41:52.018 --> 00:41:55.906
I had no other solution
than trying to imagine...

00:41:55.977 --> 00:42:01.178
\"My dear Manuel,
Berlin is such a great city,

00:42:01.606 --> 00:42:04.902
much more beautiful than
Samarkand, than Baghdad,

00:42:04.937 --> 00:42:08.516
than Paris, and God knows how
hard it is for me to admit this.\"

00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:13.653
\"The news about the invitation,
let`s be polite, ladies first,

00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:17.100
Delia is the one who is invited
and the poor Germans don’t know

00:42:17.146 --> 00:42:20.880
who they are inviting.
Anyway, I’m so excited about it.\"

00:42:21.114 --> 00:42:25.089
\"You say you are waiting for
your trip to be arranged,

00:42:25.115 --> 00:42:30.520
please don´t share your cabin
or your seat with Delia.\"

00:42:30.712 --> 00:42:34.647
\"I guess that if Circe is invited,
your presence is a fact.\"

00:42:54.114 --> 00:43:00.238
I was doing a theater play
with María Rosa Gallo,

00:43:00.410 --> 00:43:04.004
Tito Alonso, the text
was written by Dragún.

00:43:04.309 --> 00:43:07.737
Someone called me
on behalf of Antín,

00:43:07.886 --> 00:43:12.118
and told me that Nilsson
told him about me.

00:43:12.646 --> 00:43:15.798
Manuel wanted to meet me.

00:44:02.184 --> 00:44:06.232
The leading character
was so special,

00:44:06.271 --> 00:44:08.339
the author of the story
was Cortázar,

00:44:08.510 --> 00:44:10.532
and the film directed
by Manuel Antín.

00:44:11.160 --> 00:44:13.583
At that time, Paco Rabal

00:44:13.653 --> 00:44:16.721
was a very important
actor, worldwide.

00:44:16.957 --> 00:44:20.035
August 19th, 1964.

00:44:20.215 --> 00:44:24.361
\"Dear Manuel, firstly,
the script is brilliant.\"

00:44:24.689 --> 00:44:27.598
\"I think that a great movie
could be done with it.\"

00:44:27.738 --> 00:44:29.915
\"I still believe that it is one
of the stories you are

00:44:29.962 --> 00:44:33.567
most engaged with,
it is dangerously delicate,

00:44:33.692 --> 00:44:35.920
one mistake and we can fall
into the water.\"

00:44:36.873 --> 00:44:40.022
\"Either you pin the arrow on
the target or lose everything.\"

00:44:40.579 --> 00:44:42.493
The movie
“Intimidad de los Parques”

00:44:42.555 --> 00:44:45.330
was an accident,
because we filmed

00:44:46.412 --> 00:44:52.198
in different places and had
very little money.

00:44:53.331 --> 00:44:56.882
We couldn’t watch the material
on a daily basis, as other times,

00:44:56.992 --> 00:44:59.513
as we should.

00:45:00.067 --> 00:45:05.918
We travelled a lot,
from Machu Picchu to Lima,

00:45:05.997 --> 00:45:12.146
Peru and there were no labs
in such places, so...

00:45:12.310 --> 00:45:15.065
\"We have another problem:
Machu Picchu.\"

00:45:15.283 --> 00:45:18.707
\"In one of your letters,
you say it is not absurd

00:45:18.856 --> 00:45:24.706
that in Incan o pre Incan ruins
someone finds an idol

00:45:24.732 --> 00:45:28.505
similar to the idols
found on the Greek Islands.\"

00:45:28.747 --> 00:45:35.897
It was a difficult trip.
We went from Lima to Cuzco

00:45:36.530 --> 00:45:40.219
on a small airplane
between the mountains,

00:45:40.274 --> 00:45:43.034
it seemed like the wings
were touching them.

00:45:43.753 --> 00:45:49.248
We arrived at Cuzco,
4000 meters above sea level.

00:45:49.273 --> 00:45:51.603
When you got off the plane
you were...

00:45:51.821 --> 00:45:56.337
From there we took
a small train,

00:45:56.618 --> 00:46:04.436
it was like a funicular,
it went up, then down

00:46:04.490 --> 00:46:08.816
and up again.
It was terrible.

00:46:08.863 --> 00:46:12.638
We got down at a station,
I don’t remember its name,

00:46:12.701 --> 00:46:20.200
then, we took a van uphill,
it travelled at 100 km/hour,

00:46:20.254 --> 00:46:22.339
our hearts jumped into our mouths.

00:46:22.635 --> 00:46:28.983
The plane, the small train,
the excitement of going up there.

00:46:31.349 --> 00:46:36.851
Cuzco is a marvelous city.
,

00:46:37.391 --> 00:46:39.762
Its history...

00:46:39.995 --> 00:46:42.361
along with our story.

00:46:42.493 --> 00:46:46.288
It was very, very moving.

00:46:47.101 --> 00:46:50.204
\"I think that this first draft
does not work at all.\"

00:46:50.914 --> 00:46:53.490
\"Last night, Aurora read it
and she was even more

00:46:53.529 --> 00:46:55.067
categorical than me.\"

00:46:55.744 --> 00:46:59.159
\"You have removed all
supernatural motivation of drama,

00:46:59.801 --> 00:47:02.883
placing it in an erotic
and psychological field.\"

00:47:04.296 --> 00:47:08.808
We discovered a new world,
so different, a world completely

00:47:09.097 --> 00:47:13.151
strange for us.

00:47:13.393 --> 00:47:14.823
Three strangers...

00:47:16.452 --> 00:47:19.803
An actress and two actors
meeting for the first time

00:47:19.850 --> 00:47:24.775
and one director
in a ghostly landscape

00:47:24.877 --> 00:47:28.055
like Machu Picchu.

00:47:28.195 --> 00:47:31.039
The sunset was incredible there.

00:47:32.772 --> 00:47:41.070
The river Urubamba,
with its powerful sound,

00:47:42.419 --> 00:47:48.943
the rocks, watching the clouds
rising and vanishing

00:47:49.154 --> 00:47:51.295
during sunrise.

00:47:53.975 --> 00:47:57.783
Manuel is a great poet.

00:47:59.799 --> 00:48:04.287
I always say that his movies
are filmed poems.

00:48:05.035 --> 00:48:09.109
When you watch Manuel’s movies,
you perceive the essence

00:48:09.422 --> 00:48:12.388
of the poet he is.


00:48:12.662 --> 00:48:15.799
And his personality has to do with it,

00:48:17.166 --> 00:48:20.135
his sense of humor,
the tone of his voice,

00:48:20.276 --> 00:48:22.143
they all have to do with it.

00:48:23.299 --> 00:48:26.154
I don’t understand how you like talking
with those mummies.

00:48:26.474 --> 00:48:29.544
They are practically part of
the family, aren’t they, Hector?

00:48:31.313 --> 00:48:33.379
What awful people!

00:48:51.610 --> 00:48:53.417
I don´t know
what we would do...

00:48:54.828 --> 00:48:56.062
I don’t get you.

00:48:56.895 --> 00:48:59.198
Yes, what we would do if
those mummies were not there.

00:49:00.490 --> 00:49:05.166
It is like small strokes
of the memory

00:49:05.233 --> 00:49:07.533
that keep on appearing.

00:49:07.619 --> 00:49:11.658
You can freeze time
on every moment,

00:49:11.684 --> 00:49:13.020
that’s what memories are.

00:49:13.402 --> 00:49:20.692
Memories are specific facts,
like pictures paused

00:49:20.877 --> 00:49:22.980
in the memory
of each one of us.

00:49:23.176 --> 00:49:26.490
I remember
the shooting environment,

00:49:27.215 --> 00:49:31.645
there was a kind of respect.

00:49:33.528 --> 00:49:39.584
It was not something
we decided to do.

00:49:39.905 --> 00:49:46.711
It was a respect for the theme
of the movie and the place.

00:49:46.963 --> 00:49:54.492
We respected the work
that we were doing.

00:49:54.929 --> 00:49:56.940
I think that this is reflected .

00:49:58.973 --> 00:50:00.973
is reflected...in the movie.

00:50:02.122 --> 00:50:05.503
At times, they seem
to be ceremonies, don’t they?

00:50:06.433 --> 00:50:09.979
\"He effortlessly remembered
the names and images

00:50:10.005 --> 00:50:11.614
of the leading characters...\"


00:50:12.193 --> 00:50:14.953
\"He was defeated by a fantastic illusion
almost immediately.\"

00:50:16.420 --> 00:50:19.709
\"She enjoyed the almost perverse
pleasure of splitting

00:50:19.756 --> 00:50:21.959
from the things that
surrounded them, line by line,

00:50:23.294 --> 00:50:25.682
feeling that her head rested
on the velvet

00:50:25.737 --> 00:50:27.569
of the high headboard\"


00:50:28.205 --> 00:50:33.123
\"That cigarettes were still close by,
that beyond the large window,

00:50:33.350 --> 00:50:36.194
the air of sunset
danced beneath the oaks.\"

00:50:37.328 --> 00:50:41.722
\"Word by word, she witnessed
their last meeting on the beach.\"

00:50:42.090 --> 00:50:47.096
I still remember Paco’s voice,
his words.

00:50:48.035 --> 00:50:53.883
Every time, everywhere I listen,
word by word...

00:50:55.618 --> 00:51:00.576
Paco’s voice comes to my head,
that house,

00:51:01.677 --> 00:51:04.043
I can see it,
as if it were right here.

00:51:04.728 --> 00:51:11.812
It’s like it all happened
last week.

00:51:16.265 --> 00:51:20.258
The stones are
the most important character.

00:51:21.248 --> 00:51:29.887
In the film, there is a sensory
work in Theresa, my character,

00:51:30.246 --> 00:51:36.719
caressing herself as a cat
against the stones.

00:51:46.051 --> 00:51:53.728
I think that Manuel made me live
that situation naturally.

00:51:57.051 --> 00:52:04.988
He made me believe
it was happening to me.

00:52:07.596 --> 00:52:14.168
Cortázar wrote this: “We liked
the pictures very much, really.

00:52:14.387 --> 00:52:18.778
The girl is beautiful”,
Oh, this is...

00:52:18.919 --> 00:52:21.374
“She has such a sensitive face,

00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:26.166
those faces are my favorite ones,

00:52:26.594 --> 00:52:29.094
little flesh and a lot of charm.”

00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:40.188
\"Dear Manuel, my stories suppose
the unalienated acceptance

00:52:40.233 --> 00:52:41.999
of dark forces.\"

00:52:42.446 --> 00:52:46.588
\"Their malice is not only
the result of trauma

00:52:46.681 --> 00:52:50.145
or pathological feelings.\"


00:52:50.631 --> 00:52:52.972
\"It is an active and deliberate

00:52:53.073 --> 00:52:57.378
intervention of evil forces
invading the characters.\"

00:52:59.552 --> 00:53:03.231
\"Nobody gets naked and licks
an axe if he is not possessed.\"

00:53:03.975 --> 00:53:10.190
\"In my story, the idol is active.
If you reduce it to a mere symbol

00:53:10.244 --> 00:53:13.532
where the passions of three
human beings are developed,

00:53:13.642 --> 00:53:18.027
you will betray me
and the result will not be good.\"

00:53:19.027 --> 00:53:23.645
\"It might just be a film by MA
vaguely inspired on a novel

00:53:23.708 --> 00:53:27.770
written by JC, but there
will be no relationship

00:53:27.810 --> 00:53:30.041
or close collaboration
between us.\"

00:53:30.458 --> 00:53:33.810
It is a very rare situation
for a film director

00:53:34.342 --> 00:53:39.473
having to shoot a movie
with the author´s voice

00:53:39.499 --> 00:53:42.579
chasing him everywhere.

00:54:36.423 --> 00:54:39.161
There’s a scene with Paco
where I’m naked,

00:54:39.269 --> 00:54:46.075
it was really awkward
because it was the first time

00:54:46.300 --> 00:54:49.948
I was naked in a movie...

00:54:49.982 --> 00:54:57.428
Afterwards, I did other nude
scenes, but that was my first.

00:54:58.483 --> 00:55:01.206
\"Due to your nature
and personal preferences,

00:55:01.401 --> 00:55:05.982
you don’t like fantastic
or supernatural solutions.\"

00:55:06.113 --> 00:55:09.142
\"If you feel that way,
do not film the idol,

00:55:11.606 --> 00:55:14.333
because this story
is powerful as long as

00:55:14.591 --> 00:55:17.701
the idol triggers
the interaction between forces.\"

00:55:19.634 --> 00:55:23.997
\"It would be perfect if you could
develop the story of the triangle

00:55:24.059 --> 00:55:27.139
as you usually do,
provided the audience

00:55:27.165 --> 00:55:30.712
understood what the characters
are not able to:

00:55:31.470 --> 00:55:33.941
that the idol is using them,
it is making them lose

00:55:35.955 --> 00:55:40.075
their minds little by little
so that they serve him.\"

00:55:42.173 --> 00:55:47.106
He was really mad, but I didn’t
pay attention to him.

00:56:44.366 --> 00:56:45.966
I need you.

00:56:46.496 --> 00:56:48.881
Wait for me.
I’ll be there right away.

00:57:01.160 --> 00:57:04.273
The changes in altitude
and weather damaged

00:57:04.374 --> 00:57:09.226
a great part of the material.

00:57:09.780 --> 00:57:16.268
There were some white spots
on the Dupont black and white celluloid,

00:57:16.794 --> 00:57:20.677
...some white spots appeared...

00:57:21.294 --> 00:57:24.306
which technicians called static.

00:57:24.496 --> 00:57:30.312
When I arrived at Buenos Aires,
I found that 40 per cent

00:57:30.406 --> 00:57:37.551
of the material was useless,
so I had to make the movie

00:57:37.614 --> 00:57:40.798
with what was left.

00:57:41.001 --> 00:57:47.796
The original movie lasts
63 or 64 minutes,

00:57:48.671 --> 00:57:55.343
I had to add situations,
repeat scenes,

00:57:55.397 --> 00:57:58.475
so that the film
could be longer.

00:57:58.968 --> 00:58:01.935
That wasn´t planned
on the script

00:58:02.201 --> 00:58:04.861
and it affected the movie,
of course.

00:58:05.887 --> 00:58:10.999
Your movie is a matter of study,
you led the way.

00:58:11.178 --> 00:58:15.413
Since then, many film
directors had more freedom

00:58:15.452 --> 00:58:18.954
to think about certain things.
Some situations were resolved

00:58:18.988 --> 00:58:21.268
because the film had
to last 60 minutes.

00:58:21.350 --> 00:58:22.615
Yes, that’s right.

00:58:23.165 --> 00:58:25.358
It is the misery,
because if we had been

00:58:25.413 --> 00:58:28.288
in Hollywood, we would have
come back with all the equipment,

00:58:28.381 --> 00:58:36.779
staff and actors and would have
filmed and made

00:58:36.811 --> 00:58:40.304
maybe a worst movie.

00:58:41.228 --> 00:58:45.031
I ‘ve always watched that movie
with closed eyes,

00:58:45.156 --> 00:58:50.041
because in every scene
I remember what is missing.

00:58:51.313 --> 00:58:52.882
It was premiered at a small theatre,

00:58:52.915 --> 00:59:02.599
at a Latin American port,
I believe it was in 1965.

00:59:04.057 --> 00:59:09.191
The theater was burnt down
by the audience because

00:59:09.302 --> 00:59:10.936
they didn’t understand
the movie.

00:59:12.610 --> 00:59:16.937
That makes the movie
even greater, because in France,

00:59:17.350 --> 00:59:23.505
the film Hernani, by Victor Hugo
also made the audience set fire

00:59:23.674 --> 00:59:25.764
to the theater
where it was premiered.

00:59:25.865 --> 00:59:28.775
In that sense,
we should recognize

00:59:28.956 --> 00:59:32.645
the film has some merit.

00:59:40.418 --> 00:59:44.106
\"The Cuban experience made me
vulnerable and I am

00:59:45.005 --> 00:59:47.961
in no condition to tell you about it.\"

00:59:48.790 --> 00:59:51.046
\"But I think it was worth the effort.\"

00:59:51.641 --> 00:59:56.280
\"If I were in my 20s
and not such a petit bourgeois,

00:59:56.427 --> 00:59:58.693
I would stay there
and help them.\"

00:59:59.617 --> 01:00:04.697
\"Death awaits Cuba anytime now,
but those people know

01:00:04.916 --> 01:00:07.566
what to die for,
unlike most of us.\"

01:00:10.885 --> 01:00:15.509
The changes in Cortázar’s life
were evident after

01:00:15.813 --> 01:00:22.248
he divorced Aurora.
Since then, he became

01:00:22.490 --> 01:00:28.939
more engaged in politics
and ideology than in literature.

01:00:29.110 --> 01:00:33.039
Due to his work at UNESCO,
he travelled to Cuba

01:00:34.228 --> 01:00:37.437
and as if he were a teenager,
he went crazy

01:00:37.491 --> 01:00:39.189
about the revolution.

01:00:39.215 --> 01:00:45.702
He was near 60 and became
passionate for the revolution,

01:00:45.728 --> 01:00:55.346
he was a real transmitter
of the Cuban ideas,

01:00:56.072 --> 01:00:57.692
something romantic.

01:00:57.971 --> 01:00:59.744
He let his beard grow.

01:00:59.916 --> 01:01:02.113
I always distinguish
the beardless Cortázar

01:01:02.152 --> 01:01:06.978
from the bearded one,
because the person who wrote

01:01:07.004 --> 01:01:09.835
the books we all admire
is the beardless one.

01:01:10.139 --> 01:01:14.416
He wrote one last letter to me,
where he said that because of

01:01:14.619 --> 01:01:19.244
his political activity,
it was dangerous for me

01:01:19.270 --> 01:01:20.691
to receive his letters.

01:01:20.754 --> 01:01:24.834
At that time, Argentina
was governed by the military

01:01:25.270 --> 01:01:27.666
and Cortázar’s letters,
in his opinion,

01:01:27.734 --> 01:01:31.709
could be inconvenient for me.

01:01:35.141 --> 01:01:43.632
I took the post in October 1983
during Alfonsín’s government.

01:01:43.772 --> 01:01:48.086
The first measure I took
at the Institute,

01:01:48.367 --> 01:01:51.980
with the support of all the government,

01:01:52.190 --> 01:01:56.703
was to eliminate
all kinds of censorship.

01:01:56.797 --> 01:02:04.485
Some of my films were premiered
one or two years later

01:02:04.688 --> 01:02:08.188
because they had images
that were incompatible

01:02:08.269 --> 01:02:12.869
with morality, as the scene
where Delia kisses herself

01:02:12.895 --> 01:02:14.862
on the mirror, in Circe.

01:02:22.863 --> 01:02:26.749
This is the last paragraph
of the last letter I received

01:02:26.836 --> 01:02:31.044
from Cortázar, that’s why it is framed.

01:02:33.185 --> 01:02:35.110
He said:

01:02:36.173 --> 01:02:37.858
\"I told you I would
send just a few lines,

01:02:37.954 --> 01:02:40.196
and here I am with all this hassle,

01:02:40.571 --> 01:02:43.695
but I’m so happy to contact you again.\"

01:02:44.046 --> 01:02:49.212
\"I wish you came to Europe
and met me after such a long time.\"

01:02:49.782 --> 01:02:53.013
\"You know that after my political work,

01:02:53.426 --> 01:02:57.022
it is not convenient for me
to go to Buenos Aires.\"

01:02:58.043 --> 01:03:01.957
\"As a Spanish guy once said:
I’m not afraid of bullets.

01:03:02.450 --> 01:03:04.873
I’m afraid of being struck
by a speeding bullet.”

01:03:05.678 --> 01:03:07.801
\"All my love to Ponchi, to the children,

01:03:08.584 --> 01:03:11.050
and thanks again for your message.

01:03:11.427 --> 01:03:13.986
A big hug from your friend: Julio.\"

01:03:24.372 --> 01:03:27.427
\"Someday, we will exchange
more joyful letters.\"

01:03:28.265 --> 01:03:32.367
\"I hope so and wish for it,
I even know it.\"

01:03:33.420 --> 01:03:37.522
\"I have witnessed your strength,
determination and courage.\"

01:03:38.382 --> 01:03:41.683
\"Don’t give up, brother.
As I don’t give up when

01:03:41.723 --> 01:03:44.911
hearing those vernacular
nasty remarks.\"

01:03:45.678 --> 01:03:49.311
\"All my love to Ponchi,
to my niece and nephew,

01:03:49.786 --> 01:03:54.235
and a big hug for you.
I love you so much, Julio.\"

01:03:56.958 --> 01:03:59.495
Julio Cortázar left us
a wide literary work:

01:03:59.670 --> 01:04:03.662
Hopscotch, 62: A Model Kit,
Bestiary, End of the Game,

01:04:03.688 --> 01:04:06.506
The Secret Weapons,
All Fires The Fire,

01:04:06.602 --> 01:04:09.050
Historias de Cronopios y Famas,
among others,

01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:11.511
which have been translated
into many languages.

01:04:11.537 --> 01:04:14.910
He had a vast humanist militancy.
He died on February 14th, 1984,

01:04:14.988 --> 01:04:15.929
in Paris.

01:04:16.622 --> 01:04:19.008
Manuel Antín directed 12 films.

01:04:19.067 --> 01:04:21.926
In 1983, during the democratic
government in Argentina,

01:04:22.076 --> 01:04:24.866
he abolished censorship
when he was appointed director

01:04:24.913 --> 01:04:26.711
of the National Film Institute.

01:04:26.755 --> 01:04:28.329
In 1991, he created the foundation

01:04:28.397 --> 01:04:31.415
Universidad del Cine,
attended by many Argentine

01:04:31.523 --> 01:04:34.509
and foreign students.

01:04:36.755 --> 01:04:39.655
ENLIGHTENED LETTERS

01:04:39.894 --> 01:04:41.961
A film by Cynthia Rajschmir

01:04:46.493 --> 01:04:48.586
Dedicated to my father,
Simón Rajschmir,

01:04:48.943 --> 01:04:51.076
and my children
Iván and León Straijer.