WEBVTT

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[sil.]

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What follows is a candidate looking at five separate
cases of domestic violence against an older adult.

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Each of the cases is real,
not made up or scripted,

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and each of the subjects are the
victims themselves, not actors.

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To me it’s a $64,000 question,

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I’m not lying to you.
Sometimes, I certainly think

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and I say to myself, why is it
happened to me or what’s the reason?

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There shouldn’t be no reason.
Norman is 77 years old,

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he lives with his wife and
two sons, aged 46 and 47.

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Both of his sons are unemployed and show little interest in
finding a job. They have always lived with their parents

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and are depended on Norman’s income from
his social security and pension checks.

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We first taped Norman in a police station, a
few weeks after he had been severely beaten

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by one of his sons. This beating was not
the first, there had been other beating

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going back over a period of five years.
So the first thing I know I got cracked,

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I got a black eye, he
knocked me on the floor.

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From Norman Jr. From Norman Jr., yes.
I could have signed a complaint then.

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But the thing was, if I sign a complaint, I was afraid
that when I go home, they are going to beat me up.

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That’s why I never signed
it because I figured,

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once I get in the house, I’m done. Yeah.
And I know, they would work me,

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believe me and I don’t want that no more.
I am tired of that.

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I had three ribs broke on the left side. Several times the
Senior Services Division of the Chicago Police Department

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helped Norman to find a place to stay and
assisted him in getting orders of protection.

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That’s when they send me to these homes.

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That’s when I first met Norman in
the emergency room at the hospital.

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He was uh…

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He was brought in there because he used his son
Fred’s towel by mistake. He was washing his face

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and he want to dry, dry his face and Fred happened to be
walking by and saw his dad using his towel to dry himself

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and he came in there and he took his head and slammed
it into the, into the board bowl, and he had,

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he had stitches to close his head up.
He was just battered.

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But since then he’s, he’s been out of the house
a few times and then placed in shelters and,

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and we placed him in a couple
of other places, but he will,

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he will run into family members and they convince him to
comeback home. Yeah, I I always think it’s gonna get better,

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but it only lasts so long.
Being completely, (inaudible)

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from the family and he has no social life
whatsoever, and they take his, his, his money

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and Norman, he has to, he has to work few
hours a week just to get spending money

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for himself because they take all his
pension and social security to, to live on.

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On the 3rd of the month his family would drive him
down to the bank and he withdraws that money to pay

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the rent and to pay the utilities. I, I don’t
want to run over here all the time and tell them

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that I got beat up. I should never get beat up
to be honest with you. I shouldn’t have run.

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I’m, that’s our furniture, our stuff,

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I worked for it. It isn’t the greatest in the
(03.23) but it’s, it’s a hard thing to explain.

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After this last beating, Norman decided
that he would in fact press charges.

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They better arrested, they post a ban, and they
are right on ban until the, until the court,

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at the court they could be found
guilty and sentenced uh… to jail.

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In the past, Norman would
leave home after a beating,

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but would eventually comeback. This time, he
said, it would be different. If I go back

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it will last so long and then

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something will happen again and maybe
they will kill me one of these days.

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I couldn’t say, but you never know.
I don’t want to

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see him put in jail. Let
him go home with my wife

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and that’s it. I will never
go and see him no more.

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With the help of the police department, a court
date had been set. But at the very last minute,

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Norman decided to drop the charges and in
fact moved back in with his wife and sons.

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A few months later, I met and
talked with Norman again.

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I… Since I want the case dismissed.
You had told the judge that?

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Yes, and don’t press changes against
the sons and he told them write out,

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they are not allowed to touch me.
If they do, they will pick him up

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and they will get three to five years, what the judge
told them and they said they would behave themselves.

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In fact, I have been home and

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I don’t talk much to them, but they have been
behaving themselves. Why did you decide not to,

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to press charges? Well, it’s,
it’s a hard question to answer,

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you know. Uh…

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I don’t want to see him put away to be
honest with you. I never been in jail myself

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and they have never been. And I
know maybe I am chicken-hearted,

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don’t be calling. I just couldn’t see it.
If it happens again,

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are you willing to go that step?
Yes, I am. Yes.

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They will have to learn sooner or later.
Why did you decide to go back

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after you had left the first couple of
times? Well, I haven’t got any friends,

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I mean, relations or anything and it’s,
it’s, it’s not very easy to answer,

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you know. Uh… I am 77 or I
will be in a few weeks.

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And actually where can you go

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when you haven’t got no friends? You can’t walk the streets.
What about the Senior Centre? Remember, I was telling you the…

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Have you made any contacts there? Yeah. Uh… I
haven’t made any contact. I will though and,

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soon as the whether gets a little bit better.
But the thing is, sometimes they go out

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and I got to sit in by myself till they come home.
Why do… Why do you have to stay in if they go out?

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I don’t know why. I guess there are always
afraid that somebody is gonna get in the house.

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So if they are out, you have to stay in?
Stay in, yeah. Yeah.

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Whether you want to or not? Right. Right.
How the decisions get made in your house?

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Who, who makes the decisions? Well,
I guess she does in the way,

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my wife. It’s, it’s a very hard…

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I guess I am wondering
what kind of feelings

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you have about your sons. I mean, is there some anger
there about what they have done? No, it’s no anger.

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I don’t hold grudges, you know. I
mean, I felt bad at that time,

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but I’m the type of person that I
don’t hold grudges against anybody.

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I mean, I, that’s the
where I was bought up.

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And it’s, it’s a shame that things
like that really happened, you know.

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So you don’t feel any differently about
your’s sons at this point? No, no, no.

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Did you have close relationship with your,
with your boys? Yes, I did very, very much.

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Even when they were little, the youngest
one always. When I come home from work,

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he’d be run down the street
and he jump in my arms

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and I kiss him and hold him and,

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and all this went well.
We got along real good,

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but the youngest one, I took
cared more than the oldest boy.

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If you had another option to living
with your family, because of the fact

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that you are still a little afraid that this
might happen again, would you choose that option

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or would you just kind of
take the chance of staying

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and living with your family? Stay, stay and live with my
family, yeah. You would, you would do that? Yes. Yeah.

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That some 50 years that I
have been married, you know,

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and you sit down and you think about
it a lot of times to yourself. It’s…

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It’s not an easy question to answer.

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It’s not like being with your,

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you know, your wife and your two sons.

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I don’t like to go. I rather stay with

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them until the day I pass away.
Certainly after this tape was finished,

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Norman was again beaten by one of his sons
and spent three days in the hospital.

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Two months later, Norman left his family
and tried living in a single room hotel

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for older adults. He stayed away one night and
then decided to go back to live with his family.

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Norman has been encouraged
to get out and socialize

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at a local senior centre. He has also
been encouraged to meet with a counselor,

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to help him explore what options
and services are available to him.

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But Norman is getting more frail and
it is harder for him to get around.

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Moreover, his family, possibly concerned that
he will try to leave again, rarely lets him go

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anywhere by himself.

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And he came over

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that night he hit me and was upset.
I, I think he got upset.

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You know, this is what it was
and so then, we went to court

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and asked him to stay away for a while
and we, we, we would meet outside,

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but actually we did, actually meet outside, he came over
and it was all right. Dorothy and Gary, mother and son,

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have been struggling with their
relationship for several years.

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Currently, they share the same apartment. At one
time, a few years ago, they had separate apartments,

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but this lasted only a short time because Gary
had trouble managing financially on his own.

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At present, Gary is unemployed.
He is also an alcoholic.

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Over the years, he has been involved sporadically
with several alcoholism treatment programs

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and with several counselors.
When Gary becomes abusive,

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Dorothy usually calls the
police and asks Gary to leave.

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After a few days, she takes him back in.
Dorothy and Gary are shown here together

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at a counseling session. What are the
things that we thought we would talk about

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and we seem to touch it every week and
we don’t get it too far with it, is,

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helping the two of you to
decide what your options are

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for living arrangements, for
living space, that’s a good word.

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We’ve talked two different
rounds, right? Umm…

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One is being living separately, which has been,
initially that you brought up several times

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uh… on the issue of staying together.

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And if you stay together, what kind of goals
and what kind of limits do you create,

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do you set up? I know Gary’s
agenda is for you to buy

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a piece of property. No. Whether… No?

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No. No, I don’t have a firm agenda. The point…
The beginning of the agenda that I had,

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you know, involved, what last
year around, middle of the year

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we made an agreement that she would let me handle the money for one year. She pulled my part of it… He stole money
that I would invest, that I would allow to be invested. She pulled… She pulled my power of attorney on that money uh…

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by the third of the way through it. When I wanted
to transfer her money to a different brokerage,

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so that she would be able to have a separate account, so that there wouldn’t
be any question of, you know, my money getting, which, which money was mine

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and which money was hers. That’s over and
that’s something we can’t fix. That happened

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and that was then and this is now. Right. I
understand that. I’m the kid. I’m the guy

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whose contract was broken. You know, she broke
the contract that she had agreed to with me,

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and therefore, and, and now I’m in the position of defending
myself, after she broke her contract. I understand that.

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I said I tried maybe for a year. Well,
it’s been over a year and half now.

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I, I, I really think maybe it would
wiser for two separate places.

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I, I, I don’t… I haven’t wanted to.
I’ve tried to argue myself out of it.

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I waited for the slightest bit of encouragement
from anybody and nobody really encourages me.

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What would you like us to… For the two
of us to, to try to work it out anymore.

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If I thought I was making any difference that
might make some difference to me. If I thought

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I was making any difference in helping him, but I’m not sure
that I am anymore. He’s gonna get better if he wants to.

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I think that’s the story and…

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I got better when I stop drinking and I got better when I stop talking
to Cindy. That’s right. I know that. I know that, but you didn’t stop,

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keep stop drinking when you came to live in my house. But
this is true, he, he will break up something of mine

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because I don’t know if it’s me that did it or he will
come out of, of stool that he’s had in his own room

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with himself as far as I know
and I’ll be in my room quietly

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and he come in and be
angry about something.

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So it may not even been much
of an interchange right then.

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For an hour or two hours, it’s something, something
just suddenly came up. Something just sets Gary off?

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Sets him off that… Yeah. But, yeah… Now these are
the, these last few times they slapped and the glass

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that he’s been talking, we’ve been talking. And, and I didn’t go along
with whatever I supposed to, whatever he want me to do about the money

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or tell him I would do it to my, or send
it over or okay, you know, whatever.

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So that’s what, that was about.
That was different I think.

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But on the other hand it’s…

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You know, it comes as such a surprise
to me always. I would imagine it does.

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Because I really never expected from him.

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No matter how many times it’s happened,
it still takes you back each time.

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[sil.]

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And I guess if I just have to accept that,
then, then it would, it doesn’t make sense

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to live together.

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I think you have a wish there that there’s
something could come in and fix this and stop it

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from where it’s happening again, all right.
But I think,

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maybe that’s something you’ve been thinking
about these last three weeks, that maybe,

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that’s really gonna happen. And if that’s never really gonna happen,
where you go from there? What kind of decisions do you make then?

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If this is gonna be life long, all right.
Yeah, it’s… No, it’s just, it’s just…

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You’ve been quiet, Gary.

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What can I say? You’re talking to her about the things that happened
before I was born and then you brought it back up to the front.

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What about the present?
Would you see yourself

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living on your own, if your mother decided
when this at least comes out to move out?

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Well, I’m worried about the idea.
Right. You know,

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because as long as you know, it’s in a situation
where I’m being, you know, pressed to

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do something at somebody’s behest, it puts
me in a position to look like a bad guy.

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You’re feeling like the bad guy right now, all right. And
that’s what I’ve been trying to do, to stand still long

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enough to have the record actually correct it. So it looked, you
know, so that I could be responsible for where I was standing

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and that I could make a
beginning for something else.

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So I could actually, you know, start to
work and start to, you know, be functional

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and actually be able to earn some sort
of recognizance for being myself.

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This is in your… Last week you
talked about how you were able to,

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in a sense let go of Gary and let
him be on his own before, I mean,

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when he got in trouble, you always said you
had no power over being able to say no,

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when he came back and asked for help, you
felt powerless, you said, he had to come in.

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Well, when he said he had no place to stay. So if
you were to have two separate home, you might,

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you would have to consider that, that would be a
possibility that, that may happen again. Do you think

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anything would be different this time
or you could maybe say no. I uh…

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I think maybe I’m working on it.
I’m working on it.

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I, I’m trying to, because the
last time where he went,

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I have to move, went over there and everything, you know. Greg
and I could help you develop those strengths that you do have,

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so that you would be

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firm if Gary came knocking
on the door and saying,

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\"I just can’t let you and again, because
in the past it hasn’t worked out.\"

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Okay, then make him that happy, or don’t make me
that happy, either one, and that’s the trouble.

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Maybe that’s something we can work on here.
Maybe we can walk that through step by step

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and show you just what that would be. I’d like to walk it through
and feel that, you know, he’s got a reasonable chance of

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being a happy and, and a kind
of set up that he can manage

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and maybe I would too. Okay. And maybe we
could visit each other or see each other.

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Dorothy and Gary continued to go
to counseling for about six months

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and then they stopped. During this time, the counselors
suggested individual counseling for each of them,

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but they both refused. There was a little
progress made in resolving the issues

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.999
troubling Dorothy and Gary. During this time,
however, Gary was not physically abusive.

00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:39.999
His drinking problem continued. As
of the day this video was completed,

00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:44.999
Dorothy and Gary were
still living together.

00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:49.999
That’s when

00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:54.999
he put 357 in hand, he told
me he was gonna kill me.

00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:59.999
Big joke. He had it locked, but
he had his hand around it.

00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.999
He said, I’m going to kill you
and he put the gun right here.

00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:09.999
And after I pooped

00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:14.999
and peed all over myself,
shaking, he said, joke,

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.999
it’s locked. And, then I knew

00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.999
I was dealing with a crazy man. Pat has been
married to her husband Bill for 45 years.

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:29.999
Over the years, both she and
her children experienced

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.999
repeated physical and emotional abuse from
Bill. We taped Pat on two different occasions,

00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:39.999
of talking with a counselor for about a women’s
shelter. Two years ago, Pat left her husband

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:44.999
and had come to this battered women shelter.
They had helped her to find an apartment,

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.999
but after a few months, due to medical problems,
Pat felt she could no longer live by herself

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.999
and moved back in with her husband.
As usual,

00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.999
at first things were okay. But later,
the abuse started all over again.

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.999
I’ve got it with the sick, my sanity, I’ve got to
get out. He’s got my brain like scrambled eggs.

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.999
I don’t know what I’m thinking. I don’t
know what I’m doing at the time.

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.999
Walk out… How would you like to walk at your house for a
walk and forget where the (inaudible), and you don’t know…

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.999
All I want is peace and quiet.
Nobody harassing me.

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.999
Nobody hitting me. Nobody punching me.
Nobody twisting my hands.

00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.999
Nobody tripped me on the floor.
It’s been all in my married life.

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.999
It was. It’s… I thought after
I was married a while,

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.999
he will taper off, he will change,

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.999
he never changed. He not only beat me,

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.999
he beat my children. He twisted their arms up
behind their back. He dislocated their shoulders.

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.999
And when he hit him on the ground,
when he hit him on the ground,

00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.999
he kicked him. About a month after
this tapping, Pat came to the shelter

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.999
for battered women again.

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.999
[sil.]

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.999
After she had been there a couple
of weeks, we tapped her again

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.999
when she talked with her counselor. My emotional
state when I came here in 86 was that,

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.999
life was worth living, that
I would be better off dead.

00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.999
And I was thinking always
that I could commit suicide

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.999
without leaving a mess. Pat related how
in the early years of her marriage,

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:39.999
she had separated from her husband
three different times. But each time

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.999
returned because of financial constraints.
Okay. The second time I left,

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.999
same thing, didn’t have enough money
to buy clothes, food and pay the rent

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.999
and get somebody to watch him. So
again, he came to me and said,

00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:59.999
\"Why are you doing this? I love you.
You’re the only thing in my life.

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.999
I can’t live without you.\" Again I went back
and said, \"Things are gonna be different.\"

00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.999
Right up until the time I came this time, things are
gonna be different. And my son Bill said to me,

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.999
\"Mom, when I was right there in the car,

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.999
he said, mom, do you still think
dad’s gonna change?\" I said, no.

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.999
I wouldn’t be here if I thought he was
gonna change. Look, how many years

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.999
and look how many years really I’ve
wasted by thinking, he’s gonna change.

00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.999
I felt sorry for him and I wanted
to… Like you said nurture him

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.999
and try to be kind and gentle and sweet
to him, saying, in return you eventually,

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.999
you will turn and be kind and
gentle and sweet with me,

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.999
but it got worse and worse and worse. And when
I thought to myself, I’m not gonna do it.

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.999
I don’t know how many years I’ve got to
live, but I’m not gonna live it this way.

00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.999
And I always told him, when things start going
bad, only you stays when the kids were all grown,

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.999
and they’ve left, I’m leaving too.
And he said,

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:09.999
not thinking that I’m getting
older and I’m gonna get sick.

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.999
I thought I was gonna see the same
age, never looking at that side of it.

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.999
You see, I thought the kids would grew up, they will
marry, they will grow, they will do whatever they want

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.999
and I’ll go and do what
I wanted and say, bye.

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.999
But it doesn’t work that way. As they
are growing up, you’re getting older,

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.999
you’re getting greyer, you’re getting sick. So
you’ll say, now, what do you do and where do you go?

00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.999
But I am bound and needy.

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.999
I am going to have peace. That’s the
uppermost, it’s peace and quiet.

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.999
But now you went back. Uh-huh…
Uh… Because of health problems.

00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.999
Right. And yet you’re here again.
Yes. What has brought me back?

00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:59.999
Uh-huh… Well, the first… Like
I said before, I didn’t know

00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.999
I could comeback until I
called you and you said, yes.

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.999
There is space here. And, yes, you can
comeback. Because I really do, Paddy,

00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.999
believe with all my heart that
if you hadn’t let me come here,

00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.999
he would either kill me or I would
have killed him, because I was taking

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.999
to fight back. It took a
lot of years to fight back

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.999
and to realize he’s been
battering all this time.

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.999
When are you gonna batter him? When are you gonna hit him?
When are you gonna give him part of what he has given you?

00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:39.999
And I became so strong and
so belligerent, that I felt

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.999
I could handle him. He’s
just little and thin now,

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.999
where he was big and massive before. He’s a
little thin man, now I’d have no problem.

00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.999
Finally, Pat related how she
had applied for an apartment

00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.999
in a local senior housing complex.
About a week ago,

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.999
I got an answer. They
said, I’ve been accepted,

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.999
everything is going fine over there, that, when they
have an apartment, I’ll be the first one because

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.999
I’m in the shelter. Because you
do have a life and you’ve…

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:19.999
Well, I’m beginning to realize again because
only that I had one. I never thought I had one.

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.999
When I came here the last
time, I was hopeless.

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:29.999
Now you have given me a
little hope that I had got,

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.999
but that’s mainly what I want.
It’s just to have a peaceful life.

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:39.999
Shortly after this last tape was shot, Pat went
into the hospital for an operation on her back,

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.999
a serious infection set in and Pat was
hospitalized in critical condition

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.999
for three months. At the end of this
hospitalization, Pat opted to go back to her home,

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:54.999
even though her husband was also there. With
the help of much in-home health care therapy,

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.999
she gradually regained some
strength and walking ability.

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.999
Then, one month after she was home,
her husband had a serious stroke

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.999
and was placed in a nursing home.
After three months

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.999
with running out, Pat brought him back home
and help to take care of him there herself.

00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:19.999
Somebody help you, huh…?

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.999
One thing I lost weight.

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:29.999
I was built big before
that, all the wrinkles.

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.999
Come on, get the hell out of here.

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:39.999
Oh, yeah.

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.999
But you can’t even think of the, think of

00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:49.999
(inaudible) he won’t stop getting mess
with it. He gets once he feels like it.

00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:54.999
That’s by Gene’s prescription. He
called and he’s right over there.

00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:59.999
If he feel like I couldn’t take care of him because
of my back. It isn’t so I didn’t want him here.

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.999
It was because I couldn’t do it.
… He could take care of you.

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.999
So uh… that’s the reason he was in anger in the first
place, was the fact I couldn’t take care of him.

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.999
Three doctors told me don’t do it.
So that’s why he was out here.

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:19.999
Doctor, tell her what to do. Because he don’t tell nobody.
She can’t stand, she can’t add, she can’t do nothing.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.999
I wanted to get him well, well enough

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.999
to where I could move over in the senior
citizen home over in Park Forest.

00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.999
I thought if I got him well, he
could live here, I would live away.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.999
My intentions were never to stay here.
I was gonna leave.

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.999
And if everything pans out, I will eventually
leave. Four months after this last taping,

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.999
Pat had a serious heart attack. She
was resuscitated in the hospital,

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.999
but lived only in semi-consciousness
for 18 days and then died.

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:59.999
Pat recognized that the abuse was not going
to stop, and while she made several plans

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.999
and attempts to get away from the
abuse, was not for many reasons,

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.999
financial, health related, emotional, able
to ever achieve a complete separation.

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.999
[sil.]

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.999
And she’s here (inaudible)

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.999
there till you come.

00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.999
So he’s, he’s gonna kill all of us

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.999
and cut us up and leave you in, leave
us in the hospital (inaudible).

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.999
I said, don’t be afraid
come in and she came in.

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.999
And she’s gonna sleep with you,

00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.999
I said, yes, (inaudible). She
said, I’m afraid of dad. I said,

00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:54.999
dad is not gonna hurt you around me. And that was it. I got
my divorce. Lucille is 69 years old. She had several children

00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.999
while enduring an abusive relationship with her
husband for 16 years before she divorced him.

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.999
After her divorce, her husband kept
coming back. And over the years,

00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:09.999
they continued to live together
on and off. Now at 69,

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.999
Lucille has severe diabetes, is nearly
blind and cannot walk without help.

00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.999
She lives with one of her daughters, but her daughter
who works, insist that someone be with Lucille

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.999
during the day while she is gone, and at
present that someone is her former husband.

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.999
Attempts had been made by Lucille’s
daughter to bring in a home care worker,

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.999
but so far without success. A counselor working
with a support group for older victims of abuse,

00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.999
visited with Lucille and her
daughter at their home.

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.999
She explored with them, other care giving options
which would be lost stressful for Lucille.

00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.999
And also gently challenge the daughter’s
discounting of her mother’s feelings.

00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.999
Today in the group meeting, uh…
your mother expressed some real

00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.999
intense feelings about
having your dad here.

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.999
And she also stated that, you wanted him here until
she got a housekeeper. She can’t be alone, yes,

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.999
that’s true. Lucille expressed that

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.999
the aggravation and the
frustration is going to kill her

00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:23.000
and those are her words.

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:54.999
What is it? You’re aware of this?
Uh… Somewhat,

00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.999
you know. There’s two sides to every story,
you know. I realized that my father is…

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.999
He don’t do it intentionally but
whatever he does, it upsets my mother,

00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:09.999
you know. I don’t want her upset but

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.999
like I said, it all go back to that
she can not stay in this house alone.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.999
It’s just awful. And it takes time.
You know,

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.999
they are gonna get someone in here a few hours.
But then, I’ll have to give up my night job

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:29.999
because she still can’t… They
only gonna be here for few hours.

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:34.999
So she still be here a
couple of hours alone.

00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:39.999
Because I’ll get home around 2:30. So
there’s really nothing I can do about it.

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.999
You don’t your mother in a nursing home…?
Oh, no, no, no, no, that’s out.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.999
Never. My mother is going to have
to adjust until we get some help.

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.999
You know, she will have to adjust.

00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.999
She did it this long, a little while
longer. I’m sure that won’t take her out.

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.999
I know it makes unhappy. Well, you
think, the expression your mother

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.999
uh… used today was a little
more than just a happy.

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.999
Uh… My concern is uh…
even potential violence.

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.999
And I’m sure, she would share,

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.999
my concern and no one wants to see that happen.
She’s gonna have to learn to control her temper.

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.999
You know, give just a little bit. In what
area can… In your opinion can she get?

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.999
Try and forgive which my mother is
not a forgiving person and forget.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.999
There’s a lot to ask though, isn’t it?

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:44.999
For us to ask someone to forgive or forget,
what, 50 years of what they’ve lived through?

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:49.999
I can. If I can, she can.

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:54.999
It’s simple though but, I mean, we can’t speak for
your mother, already do you experienced to get…

00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.999
My mother and I’ve been together a long time, you
know, from a child. She was not only my mother,

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.999
she was my friend. I understand my mother,
you know. I know that she’s not happy,

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:09.999
but things are going to get better.
And that’s what I’m here for,

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.999
to make them better, I will make them better for
her. And she know this, but she must be patient.

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.999
She dealt with the 50 years, she can
wait, hold on just a little longer.

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.999
That’s all I ask, you know.
And if she can’t?

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.999
It will become so unbearable for her.

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.999
If it becomes so unbearable and
she want to go to the center,

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:39.999
then I would gladly, I won’t
stand in her way, let her go.

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.999
But, and it would be that, you know, because
she just can’t stay here alone, that is out.

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.999
I do want to please, Bunny, as much
as I can, I really do. I love Bunny,

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.999
see knows that. And I’ll try

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.999
for her sake, I’ll try. Before
this tape was finished,

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.999
Lucille suffered a serious stroke, this
took away all of her ability to walk

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:09.999
and also her ability to speak. She now lives
with another one of her children in Michigan.

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.999
Her former husband continues
to live with her.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.999
[sil.]

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.999
Then I told them, I said, well, what the hell is the
matter with you? I, I didn’t do anything to you.

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.999
What do you want to punch me for? Then he took
his both fists and was punching me on my head.

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.999
Then you took it and
punched me like this here.

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.999
He says you didn’t raise me right. I said, well,
what do you mean I didn’t raise your right?

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.999
He says, you never raised me right.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.999
He kept on saying, then he kept on pounding me. Mary
has been severely battered by her son several times

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.999
over an eight year period. We taped
Mary on two separate occasions.

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.999
The first taping took place at a shelter for
battered women, just two and a half weeks

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.999
after the most recent beating at the hands of her son. Okay, these
pictures were taken about three days after Mary was admitted.

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.999
Uh… She had been to Michael Reese Hospital

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.999
and she had been given medical attention.
And I came to the shelter,

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:19.999
I had the most wonderful care.
Everybody was very kind

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.999
and they are still, still kind.

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.999
Too bad, I didn’t know
about eight years ago.

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.999
Okay. Mary has he physically
abused you in the past before?

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.999
In 1980, May 29,

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.999
he stabbed me, 30 to 35 times.

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.999
Broke my hip, but he was on dope then,

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.999
plus liquor. Then when he
was at the County Jail…

00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.999
Of course, you’re allowed to make calls.
And they called the hospital

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.999
and he was saying, how sorry he was and, you know, forgive
him for this. You know, he didn’t know what he was doing,

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:09.999
you know, and all that. I guess they
say that all the time, I don’t know.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.999
Then uh…

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.999
80, right, and 84, he cut my hand,

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.999
he was on dope again, he come in and
he was sneezing. Mary went on again

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.999
at this time to describe two other severe beatings,
each one occurring after a long period of no violence

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.999
and each one apparently connected
with drugs or alcohol.

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.999
Each time while the police were called,
and orders of protection were issued,

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.999
Mary hesitated to press charges.
Because I know when I told them that…

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.999
Then I have him arrested,
you know, like before.

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.999
He always used to holler at me, that’s
all, you know, he’s the holler copper.

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.999
And I think maybe that’s why I always forgave him and I think
it… Well, you know, you will get three chances in life.

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.999
And he said, he was sorry to
give, you know, a chance.

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.999
So and I figured, well, maybe I,

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.999
went did something wrong in raising him.
You know, myself,

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.999
I couldn’t understand what I done wrong. Maybe,
or, you know, I said, well, here I’ll grow it.

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.999
And he was what? He was… He
was 19 years, 19 years old

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.999
when I told him, came him the break.
And I don’t know, it didn’t so again

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.999
or something I don’t know. But
this is the fourth time though.

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.999
I can’t keep on giving him the break.
And I always asked for psych treatments

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.999
and he went a few times
to the psychiatrists.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.999
And, then he says one time… I asked
him, I said, what they would say,

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.999
you know. And he said, well, this
is one time, he says, they told me

00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:59.999
to sign this paper to admit
myself to their hospital

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.999
and then, you know, they will examine me. They
think I’m crazy. He said, but I’m not crazy.

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:09.999
And I said, well, maybe you’re
the one I help you more

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.999
and that I’ll spend more time with you. He said,
well, I’m not crazy. He said, I’m not going.

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.999
And ever since then he never went back.
When I figured this time,

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.999
if I let them take him to prison…

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:29.999
I mean, I don’t want to do it,
but he has to learn sometimes

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.999
with his friends. That’s true.
Because he is gonna make you cry.

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:39.999
And maybe they could help him, because he will be there and
he can’t say, well, I don’t want to go. I’m very bitter.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.999
I love him.

00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.999
But this time I cannot forgive him.
Maybe I’m wrong.

00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:54.999
[sil.]

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:59.999
No, you’re not wrong at all. But I like to hurt him
something else. About four months after this taping,

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.999
Mary’s son was apprehended. This
time, Mary did press charges

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.999
and he was subsequently sentenced to two
years in prison. A few weeks later,

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:14.999
we taped another session with Mary, at a
support group for older victims of abuse.

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.999
When does he due to get out, Mary?
In May. Are you afraid?

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.999
No, I am not afraid of my son.
Because I figured,

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.999
if I couldn’t get him, if he ever hurt
me again, I can’t kill a chicken,

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.999
but I know someday I would always get
even with him if he hurt me again.

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.999
And I told him, I said,
someday I will kill you

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.999
if you ever try to hit me again.
Because I learned,

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.999
I want revenge. But I made up
my mind, never to be afraid

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:54.999
because if you show fear, that’s
when people take advantage of you.

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.999
Mary had finally used the resources of the legal
system to help her in stopping the abuse.

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.999
Now in the following scene, a counselor
works with Mary to reinforce the need for

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.999
her to protect herself in any
future relationships with her son.

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.999
If he would have come to your
door and he was by himself,

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.999
would you be able to not let him in?
Yes. And,

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.999
but, you know, yourself being a
mother, you would leave him in.

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.999
Well, I don’t know that I would. I know my heart
would want to but if I had been beaten up

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.999
the way you had, and I wasn’t 100%
sure that it wouldn’t happen again.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:39.999
Yeah, but if you forgive easy… I
forgive easy to a certain extent.

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.999
I made them hurt, it’s still there. I think maybe too easy.
I think maybe too easy? No, but the hurt is still there.

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.999
That hurt never goes away. I, I can’t imagine
that it would. I think it will always be there.

00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:54.999
But, you see, uh… even he came, he
told me he was sick or something,

00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:59.999
I would always help him. Because I
figure, it’s still my flesh and blood.

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.999
You’re not worried. And, and it’s good not to feel
worried because that’s, it’s a terrible way to feel.

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:09.999
But I don’t want… Yeah, but if you worry, you
fear. Okay. I don’t want you to be afraid

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.999
because afraid is a terrible
emotion, but I want you to be smart.

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.999
I don’t want you to, to kid yourself

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.999
about the danger that, that is
possible here. You don’t want to

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.999
blank out reality in order not
to be scared. The reality is,

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.999
he’s been a serious abuser and he,
when particularly he does drugs

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.999
or alcohol, you can’t count on him
to use his head. He, he would say,

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.999
screw it, I’ll go to, I’ll go to prison. You know,
if he’s under the influence of, of drugs or alcohol.

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.999
People get very, very stupid. I
would be a lot more comfortable

00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.999
thinking about you, if I knew you
had like a plan only to visit

00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:59.999
with him when somebody else was around. You
know, never, just the two of you alone

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.999
and see him if you want to, be in touch, talk on the
phone, I wouldn’t be alone in the house with him,

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.999
I really wouldn’t. Marry now continues to
live in her own home with her grandson.

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:14.999
The son that abused her is out
on parole, but has not returned

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.999
to live with her. In each of the
cases you have just observed,

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.999
the struggle for a life, free of physical
violence and or emotional abuse,

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:29.999
is always unique because of the
different individuals involved.

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.999
Each individual has their own set of personal strengths
and weaknesses and their own set of circumstances.

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.999
The goal of those who work with such
cases, is to empower the victim

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.999
to make his or her own choices, by
exploring with them what these choices are

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:50.000
and what the consequences may
be of the choices they make.

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.999
Where can you go? You can’t walk
the streets. That some 50 years

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.999
that I have been married, you know,
and you sit down and you think

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.999
about it a lot of times to yourself.
It’s not like

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.999
being with your, you know,
your wife and your two sons.

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.999
You know, it comes as such a surprise
to me always. I would imagine it does.

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.999
Because I really never expected from him.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.999
And I guess if I just have to accept that, then, then
it would, it doesn’t make sense to live together.

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.999
And look how many years really I’ve wasted.
I thought I was gonna see the same age,

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.999
but it doesn’t work that way. As they
are growing up, you’re getting older,

00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.999
you’re getting greyer, you’re getting sick.
So you’ll say, now,

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.999
what do you do and where do you go? When I
came here the last time, I was hopeless.

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:54.999
Now you have given me a little hope
that I had got, and that I can have

00:42:55.000 --> 00:43:00.000
peace of mind.