Virulent: The Vaccine War
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VIRULENT: The Vaccine War explores the highly contentious, emotionally fraught firestorm surrounding vaccines, charting the collision between scientists and charlatans, truth and lies.
The filmmakers were on the homestretch of a documentary about vaccine hesitancy, which the World Health Organization had called one of the top ten threats to global health, when COVID-19 struck. The pandemic upended the world and spun the film into uncharted territory.
The vaccine controversy continues to cut across political, cultural, racial and socio-economic lines, engulfing doctors and patients as well as conspiracy theorists, opportunists looking to cash in and celebrities.
Public health experts’ worries that the coronavirus vaccine could create fear of all vaccines appear to have been borne out by the resurgence of previously eradicated childhood diseases including measles and pertussis. Doctors admit that they have not learned how to effectively communicate science to their patients, leaving them susceptible to social media which is expertly manipulated, always pushing toward the extremes, knocking facts aside and never flinching at the terrible cost in suffering these posts inflict.
VIRULENT looks at the ways in which minorities are targeted by anti-vaccine misinformation. This is especially true of Black communities which have paid a cruel and punishing price. Black Americans who contract COVID are one-and-a-half times likelier to die and five times likelier to be hospitalized than their white counterparts. The film examines the “Tuskegee Effect,” the collective memory of a notorious 40-year experiment in which 600 Black sharecroppers infected with syphilis received placebos rather than penicillin, and efforts by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., the most prominent anti-vaccine activist, to disseminate bad science to African Americans who still hold his father in high esteem and have reason to distrust government and the medical establishment.
The film also tells the captivating tale of our country at its best, when Americans rolled up their sleeves and worked together to help Dr. Jonas Salk and the March of Dimes defeat polio, the most feared disease of the 20th century.
Taking us deep into these opposing worlds are Dr. Paul Offit, one of the world’s preeminent virologists and the project’s medical advisor; Dr. Peter Salk, Jonas Salk’s physician son; Arthur Caplan, PhD, who founded NYU’s Division of Bioethics and has written extensively about vaccines; New York Times columnist Kevin Roose, who writes about how bad science spreads online; NBC News reporter Brandy Zadrozny, who has exposed how anti-vaxxers target grieving parents and has herself become a target; high school senior Ethan Lindenberger, who made headlines when he had himself vaccinated against his parents’ wishes; and former vaccine skeptics including those who lost children to vaccine-preventable illnesses.
VIRULENT: The Vaccine War is an invitation to think again, exposing the myths and laying bare the facts about vaccine science, its history and what it will take to eradicate the world’s most deadly diseases.
"Informative as well as moving, and frankly quite a bit disturbing." Rob Palmer, Skeptical Inquirer
"Virulent: The Vaccine War shows us what the modern anti-vaccine movement looks like and pushes back with stories of its own...People need to see it." Jonathan Jarry, McGill Office for Science and Society
"This is a well-done portrait of the American anti-vaxx movement as it's developed over time...The personal stories offer food for compassion." Wendy M. Grossman, The Skeptic
"Virulent explores the history of vaccines and the perspectives of those who oppose them in light of the recent pandemic [including] that they cause autism (spoiler: they do not)." Hanna Webster, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
"The anti-vaccine movement is more powerful than ever. To paraphrase Virulent, they have been practicing for just such a cataclysmic event [as COVID]. That's why we're happy to be holding a virtual screening...It is very good indeed." Dr. David Gorski, Managing Editor, Science-Based Medicine
"Carnegie Science Center was honored to feature the premiere of Virulent: The Vaccine War...There couldn't have been a better fit for our aspirations to serve as a town square for community dialogue on scientific topics and to showcase regional science and technology advances." Jason C. Brown, Director, Carnegie Science Center, Vice President, Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
"Our coalition members were delighted to have the opportunity to view Virulent...The film was received with much enthusiasm with many urging more screenings to a wider audience." L.J. Tan, Chief Policy and Partnerships Officer, Immunize.org
"Virulent does such an effective job combatting vaccine skepticism on so many different fronts." Rob Owen, Trib Total Media
"We made the fortunate decision to host a showing of Virulent: The Vaccine War...Our attendees were deeply moved by the film and the thoroughness with which it addressed the current contention over vaccination, and it provided a strong point of discussion and motivation for the remaining work of our conference." Brian Abramson, Chairman of the first National Vaccine Law Conference, Arlington, VA
"What started as earnest parents with genuine questions about vaccines has morphed into a multimillion-dollar for-profit anti-vax industry that misinforms and endangers children. This documentary tells the story that needs to be told. The threat of infectious diseases is real and our children need vaccines to be healthy and thrive." Lynelle Phillips, Assistant Teaching Professor of Public Health, University of Missouri
"Students need to appreciate the stakes of the argument about vaccination, especially the way infectious disease has caused so much human suffering. We need to awaken these memories. The first movie that terrified me in the 1950s showed kids my age in iron lungs. I hope my grandchildren never have to see that. Perhaps Virulent will help." Jonathan Moreno, Professor of Medical Ethics and Health Policy, Professor of History and Sociology of Science, University of Pennsylvania
"I am astounded by how this documentary summarizes many years of scientific research on vaccine hesitancy into just one film. Virulent tells a compelling story about how vaccine hesitancy started, how it is disseminated, what drives the advocates of vaccine hesitancy, and how it affects the well-being of our society - all based on scientific research that has been validated through rigorous peer-review processes. It is not only informative and educational but also a fun film to share with our children, parents, and neighbors who still have lingering concerns about the safety of vaccines." Young Anna Argyris, Associate Professor of Media and Information, Michigan State University
"Virulent is timely and important. The COVID-19 pandemic made abundantly clear that public health depends as much on what people believe as it does on the state of medicine. Unfortunately, our country's deep, entrenched polarization over vaccines has only increased in the last few years. This documentary explores psychological, political, and medical insights into how and when people choose to vaccinate, and illuminates the role of the internet and social media in driving vaccine resistance. It is critical that we understand vaccine hesitancy, if we want to protect our children's future. Virulent helps us do that." Cailin O'Connor, Professor of Logic and Philosophy of Science, University of California-Irvine, Co-author, The Misinformation Age
Citation
Main credits
Greidanus, Tjardus (film director)
Greidanus, Tjardus (screenwriter)
Greidanus, Tjardus (film producer)
Davis, Laura (film producer)
Other credits
Cinematography, Tjardus Greidanus; music, Gary Lionelli.
Distributor subjects
No distributor subjects provided.Keywords
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[ Woman speaking Spanish ]
00:00:07.450 --> 00:00:09.519
[ Woman speaking
native language ]
00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:12.055
[ Man speaking
native language ]
00:00:12.055 --> 00:00:13.690
[ Man speaking German ]
...in Deutschland.
00:00:13.690 --> 00:00:15.425
MAN: Hospitals overwhelmed,
00:00:15.425 --> 00:00:19.029
first responders sick
in extraordinary numbers.
00:00:19.029 --> 00:00:22.599
MAN #2: Never in anybody's
imagination, in less than
00:00:22.599 --> 00:00:23.967
a year, you would actually
have vaccine
00:00:23.967 --> 00:00:25.335
going into somebody's arm.
00:00:25.335 --> 00:00:27.504
MAN #3: I will not be injected
with something
00:00:27.504 --> 00:00:29.072
that you cannot prove is safe.
00:00:29.072 --> 00:00:31.207
MAN #4: What's the point to take
a vaccine
00:00:31.207 --> 00:00:33.043
if they're still gonna
make me wear a mask?
00:00:33.043 --> 00:00:34.544
MAN #6: Bill Gates is trying
to kill us.
00:00:34.544 --> 00:00:35.945
WOMAN: This is not
communist China.
00:00:35.945 --> 00:00:37.714
This is not Cuba.
This is America.
00:00:37.714 --> 00:00:39.416
MAN #7: Here I am recovering.
00:00:39.416 --> 00:00:41.451
Am I going to get a vaccine?
No.
00:01:19.956 --> 00:01:21.224
WOLYNN: I have a lot of patients
00:01:21.224 --> 00:01:23.193
that may be hesitant
about vaccines,
00:01:23.193 --> 00:01:26.229
but when the COVID-19
pandemic hit,
00:01:26.229 --> 00:01:29.165
it brings reality
and smacks you in the face.
00:01:29.165 --> 00:01:32.635
[ Chanting indistinctly ]
00:01:32.635 --> 00:01:35.238
Sadly, the anti-vaccine
community
00:01:35.238 --> 00:01:37.574
started to co-opt the pandemic
00:01:37.574 --> 00:01:40.677
and start spinning conspiracies
on a daily basis.
00:01:40.677 --> 00:01:43.480
[ Yelling indistinctly ]
00:01:45.448 --> 00:01:49.119
They have been fighting this
war for more than a decade.
00:01:49.119 --> 00:01:50.520
...original sin.
00:01:50.520 --> 00:01:52.889
ROOSE: There are established
groups with established leaders.
00:01:52.889 --> 00:01:55.759
There are established tactics
and strategies.
00:01:57.460 --> 00:01:59.996
And for them, COVID-19
has been the thing
00:01:59.996 --> 00:02:01.664
that they've been
practicing for --
00:02:01.664 --> 00:02:06.302
is a national conversation
about vaccine safety.
00:02:06.302 --> 00:02:08.638
[ Chanting indistinctly ]
00:02:11.374 --> 00:02:13.877
I got the worst horror stories.
00:02:13.877 --> 00:02:18.314
Kids going blind
or intellectually challenged.
00:02:18.314 --> 00:02:21.151
What if I vaccinated
my daughter Katie
00:02:21.151 --> 00:02:24.454
or my son Gabe
and something happened to them?
00:02:24.454 --> 00:02:26.089
And could I live with that?
00:02:28.892 --> 00:02:31.361
GENTRY: People who don't
vaccinate love their children
00:02:31.361 --> 00:02:34.998
just as much as people
who do vaccinate.
00:02:34.998 --> 00:02:37.734
Parents who are becoming
more informed,
00:02:37.734 --> 00:02:42.038
us pesky millennials, want to
make a decision for ourselves,
00:02:42.038 --> 00:02:45.308
and now we're having to go up
against this medical system
00:02:45.308 --> 00:02:47.777
that is used
to just using authority,
00:02:47.777 --> 00:02:50.580
and we're not accepting that.
00:02:50.580 --> 00:02:53.950
GORDON: I think that the parents
should have a vote.
00:02:53.950 --> 00:02:55.819
Perhaps the vote.
00:02:55.819 --> 00:02:59.689
Don't tell me
how to treat your child.
00:02:59.689 --> 00:03:02.525
That's not the government's job.
00:03:04.527 --> 00:03:05.962
McFARLAND: There you go, baby.
00:03:05.962 --> 00:03:08.965
Do you want me to say, "Oh,
it's okay to delay your shot?
00:03:08.965 --> 00:03:12.068
Oh, it's okay to take that risk,
your kid getting
00:03:12.068 --> 00:03:15.405
one of these preventable types
of bacterial disease?"
00:03:15.405 --> 00:03:18.274
No, I don't think
that that's a good idea.
00:03:22.612 --> 00:03:24.614
WILLIAMS: A major concern
00:03:24.614 --> 00:03:28.451
is the hindrance
to routine childhood vaccines.
00:03:28.451 --> 00:03:33.289
If a coronavirus vaccine
creates fear of all vaccines,
00:03:33.289 --> 00:03:35.725
then we could easily
see a resurgence
00:03:35.725 --> 00:03:38.094
of these childhood diseases.
00:03:39.829 --> 00:03:41.831
OFFIT: Could polio come back
into this country?
00:03:41.831 --> 00:03:43.767
Do I think people
who are shedding polio virus
00:03:43.767 --> 00:03:45.735
could walk
into Los Angeles airport
00:03:45.735 --> 00:03:48.304
or LaGuardia airport
in New York? Yes.
00:03:48.304 --> 00:03:50.507
Do I think that could happen
with diphtheria? Sure.
00:03:50.507 --> 00:03:51.908
Do I think that it could happen
00:03:51.908 --> 00:03:54.511
with other rare,
contagious diseases? Sure.
00:03:54.511 --> 00:03:56.813
These bacteria and viruses
are out there.
00:03:56.813 --> 00:03:59.182
Let your guard down,
and they'll come back.
00:03:59.182 --> 00:04:00.984
You should tell the truth
in this film.
00:04:00.984 --> 00:04:03.420
See if any of those guys
that you're talking to
00:04:03.420 --> 00:04:06.189
can defend themselves
against what I just told you?
00:04:40.323 --> 00:04:43.493
DERMODY: There is no guilt like
the guilt of a mother.
00:04:43.493 --> 00:04:46.596
The mother feels
that every untoward event,
00:04:46.596 --> 00:04:48.264
whether it's a stubbed toe
00:04:48.264 --> 00:04:52.268
or difficulty acquiring math
concepts in the third grade,
00:04:52.268 --> 00:04:56.172
has to, in some way,
lead back to a deficiency
00:04:56.172 --> 00:04:58.742
in the child rearing
by that mother.
00:04:58.742 --> 00:05:01.277
Just the idea of vaccines
seems totally crazy.
00:05:01.277 --> 00:05:03.480
I have three kids.
I take them to get vaccines
00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.016
and it's like, "You're going
to put that needle into my,
00:05:06.016 --> 00:05:08.018
like, sweet, little baby
who's perfectly healthy
00:05:08.018 --> 00:05:10.286
and you're going to shoot him
with part of the disease
00:05:10.286 --> 00:05:13.656
that we're hoping
that he won't get?"
00:05:13.656 --> 00:05:16.893
That is curious.
That's confusing.
00:05:16.893 --> 00:05:18.762
And to be vaccine hesitant,
00:05:18.762 --> 00:05:22.332
I think every parent
has felt a jolt of that.
00:05:22.332 --> 00:05:26.369
Natural immunity
sounded really good.
00:05:26.369 --> 00:05:27.804
Why are we injecting things
00:05:27.804 --> 00:05:30.106
into our healthy,
beautiful, perfect babies
00:05:30.106 --> 00:05:32.909
that have just come
out of our bodies?
00:05:32.909 --> 00:05:34.577
If we say you want to do
what's natural
00:05:34.577 --> 00:05:36.246
for your baby, right?
00:05:36.246 --> 00:05:40.250
Well, how is injecting
these mysterious chemicals --
00:05:40.250 --> 00:05:43.253
How is that natural?
00:05:43.253 --> 00:05:45.889
Disease absolutely is natural.
00:05:45.889 --> 00:05:48.992
In fact,
during the pre-antibiotic era,
00:05:48.992 --> 00:05:52.128
it was natural
that people would die
00:05:52.128 --> 00:05:55.031
as a consequence
of those natural processes.
00:06:03.506 --> 00:06:07.043
Back in the earlier part
of last century,
00:06:07.043 --> 00:06:10.880
we were plagued
with infectious diseases.
00:06:10.880 --> 00:06:15.418
And when the first vaccine
against polio came along,
00:06:15.418 --> 00:06:18.021
there was a huge
lifting of fear.
00:06:18.021 --> 00:06:21.358
The whole country
had been behind that program,
00:06:21.358 --> 00:06:23.893
had contributed
to the March of Dimes.
00:06:23.893 --> 00:06:27.130
This was something
everyone wanted.
00:06:28.631 --> 00:06:31.301
DERMODY: I was born in the year
of the release
00:06:31.301 --> 00:06:34.537
of the Salk vaccine -- 1955.
00:06:34.537 --> 00:06:36.973
And of course,
during that decade,
00:06:36.973 --> 00:06:40.243
we saw epidemics
of poliomyelitis
00:06:40.243 --> 00:06:44.647
that killed thousands
and crippled tens of thousands.
00:06:45.515 --> 00:06:49.185
Nobody can share with you
the experience of a child
00:06:49.185 --> 00:06:51.121
from a family
in the neighborhood
00:06:51.121 --> 00:06:54.391
who was a star athlete
and now cannot walk.
00:06:54.391 --> 00:06:56.860
Nobody can share that story
because it's a story
00:06:56.860 --> 00:07:00.663
that doesn't occur
in our country any longer.
00:07:00.663 --> 00:07:04.567
CAPLAN: 1957, I was
probably age 6.
00:07:04.567 --> 00:07:07.904
I was one of the last kids
to get polio
00:07:07.904 --> 00:07:11.808
before they really swept through
with vaccination.
00:07:11.808 --> 00:07:16.513
So that had a very searing
impact because it told me,
00:07:16.513 --> 00:07:18.048
if you're anti-vaccination,
00:07:18.048 --> 00:07:21.985
if you think that
it's too dangerous to vaccinate,
00:07:21.985 --> 00:07:24.487
you have no idea what it means
to live through
00:07:24.487 --> 00:07:29.959
a true, horrific pandemic
for children.
00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:31.895
Mother Nature has been
trying to kill us
00:07:31.895 --> 00:07:34.064
ever since we crawled
out of the ocean onto land.
00:07:34.064 --> 00:07:36.266
I mean, the only reason
that we live 30 years longer now
00:07:36.266 --> 00:07:37.567
than we did 100 years ago
00:07:37.567 --> 00:07:42.138
is we have fought back
actively and hard.
00:07:42.138 --> 00:07:44.774
We eliminated smallpox --
a disease that's probably killed
00:07:44.774 --> 00:07:47.844
500 million people
in the world's history.
00:07:47.844 --> 00:07:51.014
Whooping cough would kill
8,000 children a year.
00:07:51.014 --> 00:07:55.018
Rubella or German measles would
cause 20,000 to 25,000 cases
00:07:55.018 --> 00:07:57.620
of birth defects every year.
00:07:57.620 --> 00:08:01.191
Pneumococcus would cause tens of
thousands of cases of pneumonia,
00:08:01.191 --> 00:08:03.426
meningitis,
bloodstream infection.
00:08:03.426 --> 00:08:06.563
So vaccines have saved
their lives
00:08:06.563 --> 00:08:08.531
and have allowed us
to live longer.
00:08:08.531 --> 00:08:11.801
The only reason, frankly,
that we now question them is
00:08:11.801 --> 00:08:13.136
because at some level,
00:08:13.136 --> 00:08:16.473
vaccines have been a victim
of their own success.
00:08:16.473 --> 00:08:19.442
DERMODY: Just as you had
families line up to receive
00:08:19.442 --> 00:08:23.546
Jonas Salk's vaccine
in areas of Central Africa,
00:08:23.546 --> 00:08:26.282
people are lining up
for experimental vaccines
00:08:26.282 --> 00:08:28.952
against Ebola
because between 10% and 40%
00:08:28.952 --> 00:08:31.388
of people with the Ebola virus
are gonna die.
00:08:32.956 --> 00:08:34.491
McFARLAND: Until
this pandemic happened,
00:08:34.491 --> 00:08:37.894
most Americans don't have
that level of experience
00:08:37.894 --> 00:08:40.230
with lots of people dying.
00:08:40.230 --> 00:08:43.333
In Africa, they're not gonna
hesitate about that
00:08:43.333 --> 00:08:44.734
because they know what death is.
00:08:44.734 --> 00:08:48.238
They see death
knocking on the door too often.
00:08:48.238 --> 00:08:50.473
You can put those
who are hesitant
00:08:50.473 --> 00:08:52.142
to get vaccines
into two groups.
00:08:52.142 --> 00:08:54.277
I think one I would call
vaccine-hesitant parents,
00:08:54.277 --> 00:08:56.112
which is to say
they smell the smoke.
00:08:56.112 --> 00:08:58.014
They want to know
whether there's any fire there
00:08:58.014 --> 00:09:00.817
and you can convince them
to vaccinate their children.
00:09:00.817 --> 00:09:02.185
You find out
what their issue is,
00:09:02.185 --> 00:09:03.920
and then in a compassionate
and passionate
00:09:03.920 --> 00:09:05.955
and compelling way,
try and frame the science
00:09:05.955 --> 00:09:09.526
so that it's understandable
and hopefully calms their fears.
00:09:09.526 --> 00:09:11.194
The second group --
and I think it's much smaller,
00:09:11.194 --> 00:09:12.562
much, much smaller component --
00:09:12.562 --> 00:09:14.998
is what I would call
an anti-vaccine activist,
00:09:14.998 --> 00:09:16.466
which is to say
conspiracy theorists
00:09:16.466 --> 00:09:18.068
who just believe
that there are forces out there
00:09:18.068 --> 00:09:19.969
that mean to do them harm.
00:09:19.969 --> 00:09:24.908
And they're not going to believe
anything that you say.
00:09:24.908 --> 00:09:27.610
I don't think they're --
they're -- they're lying.
00:09:27.610 --> 00:09:28.945
I think that they believe
00:09:28.945 --> 00:09:31.815
that their child was
permanently harmed by a vaccine.
00:09:46.062 --> 00:09:48.932
I can't imagine the grief
that a mother goes through.
00:09:48.932 --> 00:09:51.368
And I imagine that
there are lots of ways
00:09:51.368 --> 00:09:54.571
that that grief can play out,
right?
00:09:54.571 --> 00:09:58.408
And blaming yourself
or blaming someone else.
00:09:58.408 --> 00:10:01.678
GENTRY: I know a lot of people
who feel that their children
00:10:01.678 --> 00:10:03.279
were vaccine-injured.
00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:05.682
So it's more than believable
00:10:05.682 --> 00:10:09.219
that a parent would
really dig their heels in
00:10:09.219 --> 00:10:11.755
because they would have to admit
to being wrong
00:10:11.755 --> 00:10:14.190
and potentially have put
their children,
00:10:14.190 --> 00:10:16.426
who I absolutely believe
that they love,
00:10:16.426 --> 00:10:18.728
in very real danger.
00:10:21.064 --> 00:10:26.703
We as humans are wired
for threat, for risk.
00:10:29.806 --> 00:10:31.041
It's how we've survived.
00:10:31.041 --> 00:10:33.910
It's how we've thrived
as a species.
00:10:38.181 --> 00:10:40.183
So for a parent to be concerned
00:10:40.183 --> 00:10:43.486
because they're seeing this pop
up all over the Internet,
00:10:43.486 --> 00:10:46.856
I don't fault them
for asking questions.
00:10:46.856 --> 00:10:49.092
CAPLAN: One of the interesting
developments
00:10:49.092 --> 00:10:50.727
in watching social media
00:10:50.727 --> 00:10:54.431
is we're losing that
to the anti-vaccine side,
00:10:54.431 --> 00:10:57.834
which makes a point
of handling those outlets
00:10:57.834 --> 00:11:00.337
and using them
to their advantage.
00:11:11.348 --> 00:11:15.418
PAN: Unfortunately, the Internet
and more so, social media
00:11:15.418 --> 00:11:19.689
has given a platform
to misinformation about vaccines
00:11:19.689 --> 00:11:21.825
and the diseases they prevent.
00:11:21.825 --> 00:11:23.493
Many of the leaders
of the movement
00:11:23.493 --> 00:11:25.195
profit from the movement itself,
00:11:25.195 --> 00:11:27.297
so it's a business model
for them.
00:11:27.297 --> 00:11:31.368
And of course, the algorithms
drive people to the extremes.
00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:39.576
McFARLAND:
There's so much noise.
00:11:39.576 --> 00:11:43.913
You have to ask the question,
"What is the denominator?"
00:11:43.913 --> 00:11:47.751
There's that emotional part
that influences our decisions.
00:11:47.751 --> 00:11:53.590
So when I look at those sites
and I get scared.
00:11:53.590 --> 00:11:56.126
But it is increasingly clear
to this reporter...
00:11:56.126 --> 00:11:59.262
ROOSE: There was a time
where there were
00:11:59.262 --> 00:12:01.064
established gatekeepers
00:12:01.064 --> 00:12:04.601
that most people
turned to for information.
00:12:04.601 --> 00:12:07.671
And now we're sort of all
in this era where we are
00:12:07.671 --> 00:12:09.572
trying to assemble our own truth
00:12:09.572 --> 00:12:12.175
rather than having it
handed to us.
00:12:12.175 --> 00:12:13.643
WOLYNN: It's the world
we live in, right?
00:12:13.643 --> 00:12:15.645
I mean, everybody has a screen
in front of them.
00:12:15.645 --> 00:12:20.050
So as billions and billions of
conversations now become online,
00:12:20.050 --> 00:12:21.751
they start getting funneled
00:12:21.751 --> 00:12:25.722
into relatively few,
precious communication tubes --
00:12:25.722 --> 00:12:28.224
Google, YouTube, Facebook.
00:12:28.224 --> 00:12:30.427
And then they become
easily manipulated.
00:12:30.427 --> 00:12:32.429
Let's monetize it
because it's clickbait
00:12:32.429 --> 00:12:34.597
by they themselves
serving up disinformation
00:12:34.597 --> 00:12:38.301
preferentially to your searches.
00:12:38.301 --> 00:12:41.237
ROOSE: These
anti-vaccine activists
00:12:41.237 --> 00:12:44.274
would go into a group
for new parents
00:12:44.274 --> 00:12:47.277
or they would go into a group
of Tea Party Patriots
00:12:47.277 --> 00:12:48.578
or a QAnon group, and they would
00:12:48.578 --> 00:12:50.613
start seeding their messaging
in there,
00:12:50.613 --> 00:12:53.750
each time, sort of calibrating
the message to the community
00:12:53.750 --> 00:12:55.418
they were trying to reach.
00:12:59.689 --> 00:13:01.925
SUN: The anti-vaxxers,
they're able to make these
00:13:01.925 --> 00:13:05.895
really strong, emotional appeals
00:13:05.895 --> 00:13:09.399
and it is very hard
to counter that.
00:13:10.700 --> 00:13:14.738
Once a really scary thought
takes hold,
00:13:14.738 --> 00:13:17.407
it is really hard
to dislodge it.
00:13:27.951 --> 00:13:30.320
WOLYNN: The anti-vaccine camp --
00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:32.389
They come from
two schools of thought.
00:13:32.389 --> 00:13:34.958
Liberty or purity, right?
00:13:34.958 --> 00:13:37.427
Liberty -- "You can't tell me
what to do with my body
00:13:37.427 --> 00:13:38.461
or my child's body."
00:13:38.461 --> 00:13:40.530
Or purity -- "I don't want
00:13:40.530 --> 00:13:45.235
toxins and chemicals
injected into my child."
00:13:45.235 --> 00:13:49.139
I'm on the side of parents
taking care of their children
00:13:49.139 --> 00:13:53.009
and not having the government
dictate how you should
00:13:53.009 --> 00:13:55.412
raise your children.
00:13:55.412 --> 00:13:59.015
How dare you say that I don't
know what's best for my kids.
00:13:59.015 --> 00:14:01.918
I love the bird.
00:14:01.918 --> 00:14:04.654
GENTRY: In my journey
to being a birth worker,
00:14:04.654 --> 00:14:06.823
many of us in this community
00:14:06.823 --> 00:14:09.759
fell more toward
the naturalist side
00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.763
that giving a vaccine
is unnatural.
00:14:13.763 --> 00:14:17.667
When you get these
convincing memes and articles,
00:14:17.667 --> 00:14:19.336
it was confirmation bias
00:14:19.336 --> 00:14:21.838
that the medical community
is not trustworthy
00:14:21.838 --> 00:14:25.075
and we're just gonna throw
the baby out with the bath water
00:14:25.075 --> 00:14:26.976
and throw out vaccines
along with the other things
00:14:26.976 --> 00:14:29.579
that we were pushing against.
00:14:29.579 --> 00:14:31.581
ROOSE: And then there's
this conspiracy branch.
00:14:31.581 --> 00:14:33.583
And for these people,
the story of vaccines
00:14:33.583 --> 00:14:37.053
is about these global elites
who are trying to control
00:14:37.053 --> 00:14:40.457
the population
through things like microchips,
00:14:40.457 --> 00:14:42.792
through things
like 5G connectivity,
00:14:42.792 --> 00:14:46.963
and now they say
through vaccines.
00:14:46.963 --> 00:14:51.801
I think long ago, there were
families that figured out a way
00:14:51.801 --> 00:14:54.971
to control the United States.
00:14:56.306 --> 00:14:59.509
A section of Jews.
00:14:59.509 --> 00:15:03.747
Maybe they would
fall more into, like, cabal.
00:15:03.747 --> 00:15:06.182
I don't think all Jews.
00:15:06.182 --> 00:15:10.453
I just hope that
the people band together
00:15:10.453 --> 00:15:12.655
and take our freedoms back,
00:15:12.655 --> 00:15:15.091
because that's, to me,
what's at stake here.
00:15:15.091 --> 00:15:18.461
Way more than vaccinations
or viruses or politics.
00:15:18.461 --> 00:15:21.898
It's about freedom
and freedom of choice.
00:15:21.898 --> 00:15:25.035
[ Chanting indistinctly ]
00:15:25.035 --> 00:15:26.403
CAPLAN: The anti-vaccine
movement --
00:15:26.403 --> 00:15:28.438
They are a movement
and you belong to a movement.
00:15:28.438 --> 00:15:31.207
And it's good to build up
a kind of values,
00:15:31.207 --> 00:15:32.909
momentum that makes you feel
00:15:32.909 --> 00:15:35.412
like you belong
to something important.
00:15:35.412 --> 00:15:37.147
And there is a sense that,
00:15:37.147 --> 00:15:39.182
you know,
you're the persecuted minority.
00:15:39.182 --> 00:15:42.252
You're the group that really
isn't being listened to,
00:15:42.252 --> 00:15:44.888
despite the value
of your message.
00:15:44.888 --> 00:15:48.291
A lot of family members
believed this way.
00:15:48.291 --> 00:15:52.328
So just the solid numbers of,
00:15:52.328 --> 00:15:55.131
"Oh, you guys are doing
the right thing."
00:15:55.131 --> 00:15:56.833
It's very culty, you know.
00:15:56.833 --> 00:16:00.170
By someone telling you
you're doing the right thing,
00:16:00.170 --> 00:16:03.239
we felt like we were doing
the right thing.
00:16:03.239 --> 00:16:06.142
And so we knew
and others didn't know.
00:16:06.142 --> 00:16:08.578
And aren't we smart?
00:16:08.578 --> 00:16:10.613
I think for one side
of that -- that coin,
00:16:10.613 --> 00:16:12.415
you have to point out
misinformed people
00:16:12.415 --> 00:16:16.786
as empathetic and victims
of just misinformation.
00:16:16.786 --> 00:16:18.755
So my mom -- her love, affection
and care as a mother
00:16:18.755 --> 00:16:21.891
was really weaponized.
00:16:21.891 --> 00:16:24.928
I grew up understanding
that we were not vaccinated.
00:16:24.928 --> 00:16:26.896
The ideas presented were
the vaccines are very dangerous.
00:16:26.896 --> 00:16:29.366
They can cause autism,
they can cause brain damage.
00:16:29.366 --> 00:16:31.735
But later on,
once I became 13, 14, 15,
00:16:31.735 --> 00:16:33.169
and I saw online
00:16:33.169 --> 00:16:35.338
that there were a lot of people
disagreed with my mom,
00:16:35.338 --> 00:16:37.741
those questions of seeing
a different perspective
00:16:37.741 --> 00:16:40.944
really sort of slowly build
towards a distrust
00:16:40.944 --> 00:16:42.612
in what my mom was saying.
00:16:42.612 --> 00:16:44.647
I just spoke to my mother.
00:16:44.647 --> 00:16:46.383
"These are the reasons
I need to get my vaccines.
00:16:46.383 --> 00:16:48.885
I don't think you're correct
with the information you have.
00:16:48.885 --> 00:16:50.653
And the medical
community disagrees"
00:16:50.653 --> 00:16:52.422
and went from there
to the public health department
00:16:52.422 --> 00:16:53.957
and got immunizations.
00:16:53.957 --> 00:16:55.625
I think we're compelled
by anecdotes.
00:16:55.625 --> 00:16:57.027
I think that it's hard
00:16:57.027 --> 00:16:59.929
to argue against anecdote
with statistics.
00:16:59.929 --> 00:17:01.631
So, for example,
there are people
00:17:01.631 --> 00:17:03.833
who have reported
that a child got a vaccine
00:17:03.833 --> 00:17:05.802
and turned into
the Incredible Hulk.
00:17:05.802 --> 00:17:08.071
[ Yells ]
00:17:08.071 --> 00:17:09.706
Anybody can report anything.
00:17:09.706 --> 00:17:11.641
So that's what you're always
arguing against. It's hard.
00:17:11.641 --> 00:17:13.843
I mean, it's hard
to make statistics
00:17:13.843 --> 00:17:16.680
compelling and passionate
and compassionate and fun
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:19.549
-and convincing...
-[ Roars ]
00:17:19.549 --> 00:17:20.717
...when people believe
00:17:20.717 --> 00:17:22.719
that their coincidental
experiences
00:17:22.719 --> 00:17:24.554
are causal experience.
00:17:24.554 --> 00:17:26.856
A conspiracy needs
a good enemy.
00:17:26.856 --> 00:17:29.325
Big Pharma.
It sounds really scary.
00:17:29.325 --> 00:17:32.729
However, it's not true.
00:17:32.729 --> 00:17:34.064
If they didn't make them
tomorrow,
00:17:34.064 --> 00:17:36.866
I'm sure that they would
all be just fine.
00:17:36.866 --> 00:17:38.635
If you were looking to make
a lot of money
00:17:38.635 --> 00:17:40.203
and make a lot of profit,
00:17:40.203 --> 00:17:43.173
vaccines would be
the last place you would look.
00:17:43.173 --> 00:17:47.043
You would look to Viagra
or drugs for chronic conditions
00:17:47.043 --> 00:17:49.112
like high blood pressure
and diabetes.
00:17:49.112 --> 00:17:51.681
WOMAN: Ask your doctor
about Trulicity.
00:17:51.681 --> 00:17:52.816
If I only had to trust
00:17:52.816 --> 00:17:54.484
pharmaceutical companies
about vaccines,
00:17:54.484 --> 00:17:59.989
I'd be really worried because
they're for-profit companies.
00:17:59.989 --> 00:18:02.959
But we have
an extensive practice
00:18:02.959 --> 00:18:04.828
of accountability
in the United States
00:18:04.828 --> 00:18:08.264
in a way that we don't have
for any other product.
00:18:08.264 --> 00:18:11.434
Similar or the same vaccines
are used in other countries
00:18:11.434 --> 00:18:15.438
that have their own
monitoring system.
00:18:15.438 --> 00:18:19.342
There's just no conceivable way
that a serious problem
00:18:19.342 --> 00:18:21.745
will get by
that level of monitoring,
00:18:21.745 --> 00:18:23.813
and it hasn't.
00:18:23.813 --> 00:18:27.183
WOLYNN: I've had people say that
I'm in the pocket of Big Pharma.
00:18:27.183 --> 00:18:31.521
"Oh, you buy their vaccines.
You make a profit off of it."
00:18:31.521 --> 00:18:35.558
The truth is, for vaccines,
the profit margin is paper thin.
00:18:35.558 --> 00:18:38.428
Yeah.
I don't need any conspiracy
00:18:38.428 --> 00:18:40.897
to create job security
for infectious diseases.
00:18:40.897 --> 00:18:43.933
Nature and the world
create that just fine.
00:18:43.933 --> 00:18:46.736
Yeah. I don't think
any scientist goes into the lab
00:18:46.736 --> 00:18:50.473
thinking, "This is my way
to sort of get rich."
00:18:50.473 --> 00:18:52.275
I mean, I was fortunate
to work with the team
00:18:52.275 --> 00:18:54.010
at Children's Hospital
Philadelphia
00:18:54.010 --> 00:18:56.012
that created
the rotavirus vaccine.
00:18:56.012 --> 00:18:57.313
Rotavirus in this country --
00:18:57.313 --> 00:18:59.749
it would cause
75,000 hospital admissions
00:18:59.749 --> 00:19:02.786
due to dehydration
and 60 deaths in the world.
00:19:02.786 --> 00:19:05.355
It causes 2,000 children
to die a day.
00:19:05.355 --> 00:19:06.823
The fact that we made
that vaccine
00:19:06.823 --> 00:19:08.191
is the professional
accomplishment
00:19:08.191 --> 00:19:10.627
of which I am most proud.
00:19:10.627 --> 00:19:12.228
It was a 25-year effort
00:19:12.228 --> 00:19:14.364
from which to some extent
I financially benefited,
00:19:14.364 --> 00:19:16.466
but I didn't spend
seven days a week
00:19:16.466 --> 00:19:18.601
in a windowless room
inoculating mice,
00:19:18.601 --> 00:19:19.969
figuring, "If I can
just figure out
00:19:19.969 --> 00:19:22.205
which of these
two viral surface proteins
00:19:22.205 --> 00:19:23.673
evoke neutralizing antibodies,
00:19:23.673 --> 00:19:25.675
I can be rich beyond
my wildest dreams."
00:19:25.675 --> 00:19:28.945
I don't think any reasonable
person does that.
00:19:28.945 --> 00:19:33.016
But I think we've reached an
unfortunate time in our society
00:19:33.016 --> 00:19:35.852
where we vilify expertise
and anybody
00:19:35.852 --> 00:19:38.154
who has any connection
to something that's commercial,
00:19:38.154 --> 00:19:41.157
which is sad because
when vaccines get developed,
00:19:41.157 --> 00:19:44.627
only pharmaceutical companies
have the resources and expertise
00:19:44.627 --> 00:19:46.229
to do the development.
00:19:52.268 --> 00:19:56.272
Anti-vaccination is not
a contemporary movement.
00:19:56.272 --> 00:20:00.043
It's been around a very,
very long time
00:20:00.043 --> 00:20:05.515
and partly for reasons that
have to do with cruder science.
00:20:05.515 --> 00:20:07.884
One of the early mandates
in America
00:20:07.884 --> 00:20:11.788
was George Washington
trying to control smallpox
00:20:11.788 --> 00:20:14.724
in the Continental Army
and saying,
00:20:14.724 --> 00:20:17.327
"You are all gonna be
vaccinated."
00:20:17.327 --> 00:20:19.629
Some people actually said,
"If you're giving me cowpox,
00:20:19.629 --> 00:20:22.599
you're gonna turn me
into a cow."
00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:26.636
It got associated very early
with resistance
00:20:26.636 --> 00:20:30.807
to government control
and personal choice.
00:20:30.807 --> 00:20:34.411
SUN: I think that vaccine
hesitancy or reluctance
00:20:34.411 --> 00:20:37.347
has always been there.
00:20:37.347 --> 00:20:41.051
But the modern
anti-vaccine movement
00:20:41.051 --> 00:20:44.621
usually goes back to
Andrew Wakefield in the 1990s.
00:20:48.692 --> 00:20:51.661
PAN: Andrew Wakefield,
who lost his license,
00:20:51.661 --> 00:20:54.864
was paid over half a million
dollars to fake a study
00:20:54.864 --> 00:20:57.934
and then raised
more money to sell
00:20:57.934 --> 00:20:59.736
his own version
of the measles vaccine
00:20:59.736 --> 00:21:02.105
is doing quite handsomely.
00:21:02.105 --> 00:21:05.508
He's giving lectures to people,
spreading misinformation.
00:21:05.508 --> 00:21:08.178
In fact, he seemed to be
at least partially responsible
00:21:08.178 --> 00:21:13.450
for the outbreak in Minnesota
in the Somali community.
00:21:13.450 --> 00:21:16.953
OFFIT: In 1998, Andrew Wakefield
and 12 other co-workers
00:21:16.953 --> 00:21:19.956
published a paper in
a well-respected medical journal
00:21:19.956 --> 00:21:21.424
called "The Lancet,"
00:21:21.424 --> 00:21:23.626
and he made
the following arguments
00:21:23.626 --> 00:21:26.963
that when children got the
measles, mumps, rubella vaccine,
00:21:26.963 --> 00:21:29.432
they could get autism
for this reason --
00:21:29.432 --> 00:21:32.068
Because the vaccine was given
in combination,
00:21:32.068 --> 00:21:35.505
that that somehow weakened
the immune system.
00:21:35.505 --> 00:21:39.442
He just proposed a series
of sort of wild speculations
00:21:39.442 --> 00:21:42.612
for which he had no evidence.
00:21:44.214 --> 00:21:46.349
This was a testable hypothesis.
00:21:46.349 --> 00:21:49.519
It's been tested now
in 18 different studies
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:51.821
in seven different countries,
on three different continents,
00:21:51.821 --> 00:21:53.390
involving hundreds
of thousands of children
00:21:53.390 --> 00:21:55.825
who either did
or didn't get that vaccine.
00:21:55.825 --> 00:21:57.327
And what you found is that
00:21:57.327 --> 00:21:59.329
there is no difference
in the incidence of autism
00:21:59.329 --> 00:22:01.664
between those who did
or didn't get the vaccine.
00:22:01.664 --> 00:22:03.333
And so the question
has been answered.
00:22:03.333 --> 00:22:06.703
And most parents of children
with autism believe that.
00:22:06.703 --> 00:22:08.004
Breaking news tonight.
00:22:08.004 --> 00:22:10.140
Just hours ago, the British
medical journal "BMJ"
00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:13.476
did something extremely rare
for a scientific journal.
00:22:13.476 --> 00:22:15.512
It accused a researcher,
Andrew Wakefield,
00:22:15.512 --> 00:22:17.147
of outright fraud.
00:22:17.147 --> 00:22:20.950
If you read the record
that I have set out in the book,
00:22:20.950 --> 00:22:22.686
you will see the truth.
00:22:22.686 --> 00:22:24.888
But, sir, if you're lying,
then your book is also a lie.
00:22:24.888 --> 00:22:26.890
If your study is a lie,
your book is a lie.
00:22:26.890 --> 00:22:29.693
He had already received
$800,000 or $1,000,000
00:22:29.693 --> 00:22:30.794
to try and find a link.
00:22:30.794 --> 00:22:32.195
Five years before,
00:22:32.195 --> 00:22:34.030
he was trying to link
vaccines to Crohn's disease.
00:22:34.030 --> 00:22:36.533
I mean, there was all this
fraudulent science behind it.
00:22:36.533 --> 00:22:38.435
So when people start pointing
to, you know,
00:22:38.435 --> 00:22:39.869
cherry picking
a little bit of science
00:22:39.869 --> 00:22:42.672
and a lot of disinformation,
trying to build a case,
00:22:42.672 --> 00:22:44.808
I say,
"Go back to the scientists
00:22:44.808 --> 00:22:48.111
and the people that really have
true data and statistics
00:22:48.111 --> 00:22:49.446
to guide what we do."
00:22:49.446 --> 00:22:53.383
The allegations against me
and against my colleagues
00:22:53.383 --> 00:22:56.820
are both unfounded and unjust.
00:22:56.820 --> 00:22:59.823
I repeat, unfounded and unjust.
00:22:59.823 --> 00:23:01.758
All the evidence to date
points to the notion
00:23:01.758 --> 00:23:04.260
that autism
is a genetic disorder
00:23:04.260 --> 00:23:05.829
and that if you're autistic
at 5,
00:23:05.829 --> 00:23:08.331
you were autistic at 2, you were
autistic when you're born.
00:23:08.331 --> 00:23:11.468
But it's not unusual
when a disease doesn't have
00:23:11.468 --> 00:23:14.337
an obvious cause or a cure
that it could be subject
00:23:14.337 --> 00:23:16.773
to a lot of charlatan-ism
and quackery.
00:23:16.773 --> 00:23:18.842
And that's true with a disease
like autism,
00:23:18.842 --> 00:23:20.877
where you see people
that subject themselves
00:23:20.877 --> 00:23:24.447
to elimination diets
or to baths and magnetic clay
00:23:24.447 --> 00:23:27.984
or to stem-cell transplantation
or to chelation therapy,
00:23:27.984 --> 00:23:30.620
all of which, you know, doctors
are perfectly willing to do
00:23:30.620 --> 00:23:33.456
and to be paid for out
of pocket, taking advantage,
00:23:33.456 --> 00:23:35.925
I think, of the parents'
desperate desire
00:23:35.925 --> 00:23:39.496
to do something
to make their child better.
00:23:39.496 --> 00:23:42.132
When I think of my sons --
00:23:42.132 --> 00:23:43.600
I have two sons --
00:23:43.600 --> 00:23:45.468
seeing language develop
00:23:45.468 --> 00:23:48.038
and the ability
to communicate with me
00:23:48.038 --> 00:23:53.710
was one of the most exciting and
wonderful parts of being a mom.
00:23:53.710 --> 00:23:56.346
So when I think of parents
who are not having
00:23:56.346 --> 00:23:58.581
that experience
with their babies,
00:23:58.581 --> 00:24:00.316
you know,
the babies are not talking.
00:24:00.316 --> 00:24:01.785
They don't have eye contact,
00:24:01.785 --> 00:24:03.920
all these
communication problems,
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:05.955
you know, it's heartbreaking.
00:24:05.955 --> 00:24:11.261
It's such
a life-altering thing
00:24:11.261 --> 00:24:12.896
when you have
a special-needs child.
00:24:12.896 --> 00:24:16.032
It really is.
Just your life is altered.
00:24:16.032 --> 00:24:18.468
And I think parents just need
to have an understanding
00:24:18.468 --> 00:24:19.736
as to why.
00:24:19.736 --> 00:24:21.805
"Why is my child like this?"
00:24:21.805 --> 00:24:23.373
MAN: That was really ridiculous.
00:24:23.373 --> 00:24:27.510
You have this special bond,
and then something
00:24:27.510 --> 00:24:28.812
is not right with them.
00:24:28.812 --> 00:24:34.684
And what's kind of cruel is,
is it really unfolds
00:24:34.684 --> 00:24:37.520
in really the worst possible way
00:24:37.520 --> 00:24:39.789
because it's kind
of a slow burn.
00:24:39.789 --> 00:24:42.258
You know, other kids
are hitting milestones
00:24:42.258 --> 00:24:44.194
and your kid may not be
hitting milestones.
00:24:44.194 --> 00:24:46.196
And then finally
they get the diagnosis.
00:24:46.196 --> 00:24:48.264
And it just is, it's painful.
00:24:48.264 --> 00:24:49.566
MAN: Go get 'em.
00:24:49.566 --> 00:24:53.336
So I can understand
why parents want to know why.
00:24:53.336 --> 00:24:56.172
Like, "Why?
"Why -- Why me? Why us?"
00:24:56.172 --> 00:24:58.808
OFFIT: Autism is typically
first recognized between one
00:24:58.808 --> 00:25:01.011
and two years of age,
and that's around the time
00:25:01.011 --> 00:25:02.679
that you're getting
a number of vaccines.
00:25:02.679 --> 00:25:04.748
So it's very easy
to make that association.
00:25:04.748 --> 00:25:06.916
I mean, you know,
the rooster crows,
00:25:06.916 --> 00:25:09.285
the sun comes up, the rooster
crows, the sun comes up.
00:25:09.285 --> 00:25:11.955
Is the rooster causing
the sun to come up?
00:25:11.955 --> 00:25:13.590
If you don't allow
the rooster to crow,
00:25:13.590 --> 00:25:15.859
will the sun still come up?
Yes.
00:25:15.859 --> 00:25:17.994
If you don't give people
MMR vaccine,
00:25:17.994 --> 00:25:20.096
will they still have
the same incidence of autism?
00:25:20.096 --> 00:25:21.297
Yes.
00:25:21.297 --> 00:25:23.900
We do not know
what causes autism.
00:25:23.900 --> 00:25:26.002
We do not know.
00:25:26.002 --> 00:25:27.771
Now, to make the claim
00:25:27.771 --> 00:25:32.375
that vaccines
may cause autism is false.
00:25:32.375 --> 00:25:36.946
That is a false claim because
that very specific question
00:25:36.946 --> 00:25:40.216
has been answered
through very large,
00:25:40.216 --> 00:25:43.820
carefully conducted studies
of hundreds of thousands
00:25:43.820 --> 00:25:45.588
of children
throughout the world.
00:25:45.588 --> 00:25:50.427
And no link between vaccines
and autism has been established.
00:25:50.427 --> 00:25:51.661
Science isn't politics.
00:25:51.661 --> 00:25:53.663
It's not philosophy,
it's not religion.
00:25:53.663 --> 00:25:54.964
There's not two sides.
00:25:54.964 --> 00:25:57.000
There's really,
as the truth emerges,
00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:59.336
only one side.
00:25:59.336 --> 00:26:00.737
[ Chanting indistinctly ]
00:26:00.737 --> 00:26:03.940
But that story has been
taken hostage by a group
00:26:03.940 --> 00:26:07.010
of people who believe that
vaccines are the cause.
00:26:07.010 --> 00:26:10.413
I think the media allows for
and lawyers enable
00:26:10.413 --> 00:26:13.950
and I think politicians
enable small splinter groups
00:26:13.950 --> 00:26:15.752
to become very powerful
00:26:15.752 --> 00:26:18.488
and the only groups
that you hear from.
00:26:18.488 --> 00:26:20.590
We're two decades down the road
00:26:20.590 --> 00:26:24.461
from when Wakefield
unleashed his conspiracy.
00:26:24.461 --> 00:26:26.262
And even though all the other
scientists on that paper
00:26:26.262 --> 00:26:27.697
said the data wasn't true,
00:26:27.697 --> 00:26:30.033
there have been multiple studies
that have tried to repeat it,
00:26:30.033 --> 00:26:35.372
he lost his license,
he's completely discredited...
00:26:35.372 --> 00:26:37.240
...and two decades later,
people will still say,
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:39.876
"But what about vaccines
and autism?"
00:26:39.876 --> 00:26:41.311
One other thing.
00:26:41.311 --> 00:26:45.148
There were 13 authors on that
paper and 8 study subjects.
00:26:45.148 --> 00:26:47.183
Just as a tip
to future epidemiologists,
00:26:47.183 --> 00:26:52.389
you should always have more
study subjects than authors.
00:26:52.389 --> 00:26:54.557
Now, one thing happened
that kind of put
00:26:54.557 --> 00:26:56.192
that argument to rest.
00:26:56.192 --> 00:26:58.194
You begin to be able
to diagnose autism
00:26:58.194 --> 00:27:00.397
in a kid
before you vaccinated the kid.
00:27:00.397 --> 00:27:03.800
That's a pretty
solid refutation.
00:27:03.800 --> 00:27:06.803
We will not stop
until this fight is won.
00:27:06.803 --> 00:27:09.906
CAPLAN: But the commitment is
there, and it's hard to go back
00:27:09.906 --> 00:27:13.843
on 30 years of saying,
"The vaccines are bad for you.
00:27:13.843 --> 00:27:15.178
Oh, never mind.
00:27:15.178 --> 00:27:19.149
Maybe I'm responsible
for killing people."
00:27:19.149 --> 00:27:23.586
COVID proves that vaccination
is one of the key tools.
00:27:23.586 --> 00:27:27.090
Again, the evidence is in front
of everybody's faces.
00:27:27.090 --> 00:27:29.959
Then a lot of individuals
that are really big leaders
00:27:29.959 --> 00:27:31.761
in the anti-vax world.
00:27:31.761 --> 00:27:34.764
You can talk about Del Bigtree,
Kennedy Jr.,
00:27:34.764 --> 00:27:36.800
even celebrities like
Robert De Niro
00:27:36.800 --> 00:27:38.234
and Jenny McCarthy.
00:27:38.234 --> 00:27:40.804
And all of them have such a big
sway and influence
00:27:40.804 --> 00:27:44.974
over this world
of the anti-vaccine community.
00:27:44.974 --> 00:27:48.445
KING: Tonight, exclusive
Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy,
00:27:48.445 --> 00:27:50.780
partners in life
and partners in the search
00:27:50.780 --> 00:27:52.449
for answers to autism.
00:27:52.449 --> 00:27:54.851
Isn't the problem here, Jenny,
that people
00:27:54.851 --> 00:27:58.088
are gonna panic
and not vaccine at all?
00:27:58.088 --> 00:28:00.190
Probably.
00:28:00.190 --> 00:28:02.792
But guess what?
It's not my fault.
00:28:02.792 --> 00:28:04.461
The reason why
they're not vaccinating
00:28:04.461 --> 00:28:07.130
is because the vaccines
are not safe.
00:28:07.130 --> 00:28:10.834
ZADROZNY: Jenny McCarthy really
brought us to this moment.
00:28:10.834 --> 00:28:14.371
She was the first
to have a platform
00:28:14.371 --> 00:28:18.575
and say, "My child was hurt
by vaccines,"
00:28:18.575 --> 00:28:21.044
and you don't want to go up
against a mother
00:28:21.044 --> 00:28:22.679
who thinks that her child
was hurt by vaccines.
00:28:22.679 --> 00:28:25.882
Like, who are you? You're
automatically the bad guy.
00:28:25.882 --> 00:28:29.119
What we are saying is that
the number of vaccines given
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:32.255
and the ingredients,
like the freaking mercury...
00:28:32.255 --> 00:28:35.892
ZADROZNY: Expertise is no match
for a good story
00:28:35.892 --> 00:28:40.330
told by a beautiful,
articulate, blonde bombshell,
00:28:40.330 --> 00:28:42.165
who is giving you this message.
00:28:42.165 --> 00:28:45.735
My science is named Evan,
and he's at home.
00:28:45.735 --> 00:28:47.470
That's my science.
00:28:47.470 --> 00:28:50.440
There were a lot of things that
Oprah Winfrey did
00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:52.742
and brought attention to that
I thought were amazing.
00:28:52.742 --> 00:28:57.847
But she actually lent oxygen
and her power behind
00:28:57.847 --> 00:29:00.517
anti-vaccine moments
and let them run with it.
00:29:00.517 --> 00:29:02.752
ROWLETTE: Jenny McCarthy was
giving medical advice
00:29:02.752 --> 00:29:06.489
and I just took what she said at
face value because
00:29:06.489 --> 00:29:08.992
why else would she
be on Oprah's show?
00:29:08.992 --> 00:29:13.430
And as a result of that,
I'm sure a lot of children died.
00:29:13.430 --> 00:29:15.532
I'm sure I was not the only one
who listened to
00:29:15.532 --> 00:29:18.935
the Hollywood actress try to
push her book on autism.
00:29:18.935 --> 00:29:20.337
Here's one thing, Jenny.
00:29:20.337 --> 00:29:22.372
And you know
I've got an open mind.
00:29:22.372 --> 00:29:24.307
For people to stop
vaccinating --
00:29:24.307 --> 00:29:27.444
Because we'll start seeing kids
die of polio again.
00:29:27.444 --> 00:29:29.746
McCARTHY: Let me tell you this.
00:29:29.746 --> 00:29:32.615
We do not need
that many vaccines.
00:29:32.615 --> 00:29:35.051
WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think
this is a common pitfall.
00:29:35.051 --> 00:29:38.288
The idea that, "Well,
we have to let both sides
00:29:38.288 --> 00:29:39.956
have an equal presentation."
00:29:39.956 --> 00:29:44.060
Look, if we're talking about
matters of opinion or faith,
00:29:44.060 --> 00:29:45.695
I'm all for that.
00:29:45.695 --> 00:29:48.098
But it's a fallacy to say,
00:29:48.098 --> 00:29:51.267
"Well, we're gonna give
equal weight with somebody
00:29:51.267 --> 00:29:54.437
who has no education
or specialization in that area
00:29:54.437 --> 00:30:00.577
and is just talking about
their own feelings."
00:30:07.650 --> 00:30:09.386
ROWLETTE: It was
a Wednesday morning.
00:30:09.386 --> 00:30:10.920
We sent him off to school.
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.056
And a few hours later,
I received a call
00:30:13.056 --> 00:30:16.426
that he had a 102 temperature,
I believe.
00:30:18.261 --> 00:30:20.430
And we took him in.
The pediatrician looked at him
00:30:20.430 --> 00:30:22.699
and said, "You know what?
It's just the flu.
00:30:22.699 --> 00:30:25.335
He'll be alright.
Take him home, get hydrated."
00:30:25.335 --> 00:30:29.506
And that night,
he went from being really hot
00:30:29.506 --> 00:30:34.944
to having projectile vomiting
to being ice cold.
00:30:34.944 --> 00:30:36.312
And then come 6:00
in the morning
00:30:36.312 --> 00:30:40.250
and an ambulance arrived,
and he had a heart attack
00:30:40.250 --> 00:30:41.551
in the ambulance.
00:30:41.551 --> 00:30:43.186
[ Siren wailing ]
00:30:43.186 --> 00:30:46.456
And he actually flatlined
in the E.R.,
00:30:46.456 --> 00:30:48.058
and that's when he died.
00:31:07.077 --> 00:31:09.546
Every year when they have
the flu vaccine clinics
00:31:09.546 --> 00:31:12.082
near our home,
my kids and I volunteer
00:31:12.082 --> 00:31:13.750
to just kind of herd people
in there
00:31:13.750 --> 00:31:15.518
and we share our story
with them.
00:31:15.518 --> 00:31:17.721
If you were one of those fish,
which one would you be?
00:31:17.721 --> 00:31:19.622
Oftentimes you get push back
and they're just like,
00:31:19.622 --> 00:31:22.892
"No, we're not gonna go do that.
We know what happens."
00:31:22.892 --> 00:31:24.928
My kid was supposed
to graduate this year.
00:31:24.928 --> 00:31:26.763
"He's dead.
You understand that?
00:31:26.763 --> 00:31:27.997
10 years ago, he died.
00:31:27.997 --> 00:31:29.966
But he could have got
a flu vaccine.
00:31:29.966 --> 00:31:32.335
Why don't you prevent that
from happening to you?"
00:31:37.273 --> 00:31:40.810
[ Cheers and applause ]
00:31:40.810 --> 00:31:45.081
Now I want to introduce
Robert Kennedy Jr.
00:31:45.081 --> 00:31:47.450
[ Cheers and applause ]
00:31:47.450 --> 00:31:50.253
There's this kind of
Kafka-esque censorship
00:31:50.253 --> 00:31:54.190
in the news about having
a reasonable debate.
00:31:54.190 --> 00:31:57.694
So they call us anti-vaccine,
they call us hysterical,
00:31:57.694 --> 00:31:59.662
they call us
conspiracy theorists.
00:31:59.662 --> 00:32:01.998
I wouldn't characterize myself
as anti-vaccine.
00:32:01.998 --> 00:32:06.269
That's something that is
a pejorative that other people
00:32:06.269 --> 00:32:10.774
use to characterize me
and, you know,
00:32:10.774 --> 00:32:16.513
the movement as a way
to discredit or to silence us.
00:32:16.513 --> 00:32:19.482
Because, you know,
if you say they're anti-vaccine,
00:32:19.482 --> 00:32:21.685
it sounds like you're crazy.
00:32:21.685 --> 00:32:23.486
And that's a way of masking
00:32:23.486 --> 00:32:26.056
the injuries
that are caused by the vaccine.
00:32:26.056 --> 00:32:29.392
And it's not science,
it's just marketing.
00:32:29.392 --> 00:32:31.661
REPORTER: Some of the more
established names at today's
00:32:31.661 --> 00:32:33.897
rally included
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
00:32:33.897 --> 00:32:35.932
Recently,
some of his family members
00:32:35.932 --> 00:32:39.302
disavowed his views
about vaccines.
00:32:39.302 --> 00:32:42.005
REISS: I think he's a believer,
but I think it's very clear
00:32:42.005 --> 00:32:44.841
that he's willing to lie
for the cause.
00:32:44.841 --> 00:32:48.044
Kennedy is saying
that he's pro-vaccine
00:32:48.044 --> 00:32:49.879
as long as
it's a mythical vaccine
00:32:49.879 --> 00:32:51.681
that isn't currently
in existence
00:32:51.681 --> 00:32:55.452
and has no risks
and 100
/ 
